Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Stop them destroying my country, says Georgian dancer

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 11 August 2008
FOR years, she has been one of ballet's global superstars, hailed by audiences from New York to Moscow. But the Georgian prima ballerina Nina Ananiashvili took a different role in Edinburgh yesterday, appealing for international forces to help calm the conflict in Georgia, defending her country's actions in South Ossetia and denouncing Russia's military action.
Ananiashvili, the lead dancer and artistic director of the State Ballet of Georgia, spoke hours before starring in Giselle, one of the highlights of the Edinburgh International Festival.

The show would go on, she said, even as bombs fell on the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, and other areas where the dancers' families live. "We need to be on stage, we need to show our country, we need to dance for our country. We want to show who we are, what we do, and that art is something else we can talk about," she said.

After three days of fighting, Russia last night declared itself ready to make peace with Georgia, while United Nations officials confirmed Georgia was prepared to negotiate with Russia by withdrawing its troops from South Ossetia and creating a "safe travel" zone.

Ananiashvili's voice carries unusual weight for a dancer – her husband is Grigol Vashadze, Georgia's deputy foreign minister. They met and married when he was a junior Soviet diplomat.

For many years, she was the leading ballerina of the Bolshoi Ballet, one of Russia's greatest cultural icons. But when Georgia won independence after years of civil war, she answered a personal request from its president, Mikheil Saakashvili, to return and rebuild the country's own shattered ballet company.

Yesterday, the mother of two, who left Georgia to study in Russia at the age of 13, said "thousands" of shocked Russian colleagues and friends had called her. But she added: "The Russian people and Russian politicians are two different things."

Ananiashvili called Russia's actions "a great pity" and wrong. In a news conference at the Edinburgh Playhouse, she was, in turn, sad and angry, sometimes breaking from heavily accented English into her native language to put her points across.

Georgia had intervened in the province of Ossetia to try to control the black-market trade, and the conflict had begun when Ossetians killed two Georgian military personnel, she said, adding: "It started like this."

Calling for international help on the ground, she said: "If we want to have a stable situation there, why just Russians? Let's bring somebody else from Ukraine, or Europe, to stay there and control the situation.

"If we are wrong, have somebody else there to exit Russians and control the situation."

Becoming angry, she went on: "You cannot call it the stupid Georgians doing something, because it's our territory. We don't do one step out. It's inside our territory."

Ananiashvili said she had been able to talk by telephone to her husband and family. "We need to be there," she said. "The situation feels like Russia wants again to occupy our territory. Everybody in the world says this is Georgian territory and they just want to control of it.

We are ready to do anything to finish this one. We want to just control our small territory that we have."

The 80 members of the ballet company had been due to fly home today, but British Airways flights to Georgia have been cancelled.

Georgians watch a building hit by bombardments in Gori. Picture: AFP/Getty Images
Georgians watch a building hit by bombardments in Gori. Picture: AFP/Getty Images


Georgia 'pulls out forces' as Russian Bear's grip tightens

Lindsay McIntosh


GEORGIA claimed it had withdrawn its troops from the sudden bloody conflict with Russia last night, ahead of talks to avoid an even more serious escalation of conflict in the region.

The former Soviet state said it told the Russian ambassador it had ceased fire in the separatist region of South Ossetia, withdrawn its forces, and was ready for immediate negotiations on a "termination of hostilities".

UN officials backed Tbilisi's claims but Moscow said the conflict – which began in earnest on Friday and has reportedly claimed the lives of 2,000 civilians – was continuing apace.

Although the Kremlin said it was "ready to end the war", Georgia's interior ministry said that just hours after its ceasefire announcement, Russia bombed targets on the outskirts of the capital, Tbilisi. Russia also said its warships had sunk a Georgian boat that approached and tried to attack.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy is to visit Moscow this week as part of efforts to end the conflict.

Meanwhile, Sergei Bagapsh, the self-styled president of the other separatist Georgian province, Abkhazia, sent 1,000 troops to a disputed gorge, effectively opening a second front in Georgia's battle to regain control over its breakaway regions.

Last night, the country began to pull its 2,000 troops back from Iraq, assisted by an American airlift, in an effort to shore up its defences – or reinforce its offensive. Consternation at the violence was voiced internationally throughout yesterday. The Foreign Office advised British citizens to leave the region if possible.

Earlier, clashes in South Ossetia were reported to be less intense, as Russian forces seized power and Georgian troops drew back.

Russian television showed what it said were pictures from South Ossetia's capital Tskhinvali, of burnt-out buildings, wounded civilians receiving medical treatment in basements and crying mothers complaining of a lack of food and water.

"The Georgian tanks fired at everything they saw, including women and children," one man said after his evacuation over the border to the Russian region of North Ossetia.

Pictures on NTV television showed Tskhinvali's main hospital in ruins and most of the more than 230 patients crammed into the basement. Patients, many of them wincing, were receiving treatment on tabletops from clearly harried doctors.

In the evening, the Georgian foreign ministry said in a statement that the country "today stopped firing in the South Ossetian conflict zone and is ready to begin talks with Russia on a ceasefire and cessation of hostilities". It said a note had been passed to the Russian embassy in Georgia to that effect.

But Russian peacekeepers said Georgian forces were still there.

"Peacekeepers' posts monitor the presence of Georgian forces, artillery and armour," Vladimir Ivanov, an aide to the Russian military commander said. "Georgia has not withdrawn forces from South Ossetia."

Russia currently has no international mandate to deploy soldiers in South Ossetia, but refers to them as peacekeepers.

Earlier, as Moscow directed two warships out of their leased Ukrainian base at Sevastopol to blockade the Georgian port of Poti, the former Soviet state said it reserved the right to prevent them returning.

International figures were quick to raise their concerns, as the UN Security Council began talks for the fourth time in four days to try to resolve the situation, ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers on Wednesday in Brussels.

Russia, which called the first meeting on Thursday night hours before its tanks rumbled into Georgia, will only act in "self-defence" said Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin last night

"Let's state clearly that we are ready to put an end to the war, that we will withdraw from South Ossetia, that we will sign an agreement on non-use of force," he said.

The West is vying for influence with Russia over oil and gas supply routes in the region and Russia is rankled by Georgia's pro-Western policies and its drive for Nato membership.

Angus Robertson, the Westminster SNP leader who established parliament's All Party South Caucasus Group, said the regional conflict must become a top government priority but "sadly there have been recent Foreign Office cuts to vital peace and reconciliation efforts in the region".

Nato's Secretary General, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said Russia has violated Georgia's territorial integrity in South Ossetia and used excessive force. Bernard Kouchner, the French foreign minister, who is travelling to Georgia with his Finnish counterpart for mediation talks, called the hostilities "massacres" and "medieval" and also said he would press for an immediate end to the violence.

The United States, Georgia's main ally, also condemned Moscow's military action and warned that any further escalation could have a "significant long-term impact" on relations.

The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Antonio Guterres, said: "It is essential that humanitarian agencies be able to reach the affected and the displaced, and that those trapped in conflict areas be granted passage to safer areas as soon as possible."

ANALYSIS: Russia's weapons will no longer be military hardware, but oil and gas

THE POUNDING of Georgia by Russian planes and tanks is giving credibility to claims that a New Cold War is upon us, but the danger the West may face from a resurgent Russia is very different to that posed by the former Soviet Union.

On paper, Russia has a one million-strong army with more than 25 combat divisions, but this force is a shadow of the once mighty Red Army, manned by poorly trained conscripts with outdated equipment.

Russia's defence budget is less than Britain's and one-twentieth of America's, leaving it ill-suited to taking on the West in conventional war.

Its nuclear weapons, though plentiful, have limited capabilities, with only a handful ready to use.

Meanwhile the Russian press is full of stories of unpaid conscripts forced to tend vegetable gardens simply to survive. Desertion is rife and morale is further eroded by rich Russian families paying to keep their own sons out of service.

Political upheavals over the past two decades have also seen most Russian military hardware fall a generation behind that of the West. The 24 Sukhoi jets recently told to Venezuela would be shot out of the sky were they to come up against the US Air Force.

But Russia has other weapons at its disposal in any confrontation with the West, beginning with its vast reserves of oil and gas. It has already demonstrated its willingness to use gas as a weapon when it cut supplies to Ukraine, a fact of life that has dissuaded European leaders from making more than token protests about the fighting in Georgia.

Meanwhile Russia has offered to sell air defence missiles, one area in which it retains expertise, to Iran, a huge complication should Tehran begin a nuclear weapons programme and Israel or the United States contemplate military action.


The full article contains 1704 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 August 2008 9:56 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Georgia , Russia
 
1

,

11/08/2008 00:14:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Edward,

11/08/2008 00:33:39
#1 The McKellarator
Ive been dipping into that as well and confirm 'Russia Today' is an out an out mouth piece of the Russian Government, very scary the level of propoganda spewing forth from that channel.
3

,

11/08/2008 00:35:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

,

11/08/2008 00:43:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

ThomasT,

Phuket Thailand 11/08/2008 00:49:24
Just imagine, if Russia had not entered after Georgia`s massive 2 night rocket, tank, and air bombardment of S Ossetia. Who would hve known that it no longer existed. Time for sanity to return and the Wests greedy rush for Empire is stalled. Im glad the Georgians got bloody nose. Both provinces can now become fully independent, as per Kosovo, but no doubt that will displease the London bankers. I am looking forward to the Western reporters going in to verify Georgias attempted massacre of all the inhabitants of S Ossetia. No doubt some will say that the damage was from the Georgian/Russian fighting.
6

Edward,

11/08/2008 01:29:41
#7 Scouting For Grills & Buoys
I dont have Sky, never have and never will, basically as I distrust and dont like the dirty digger
Russia Today is nothing to do with Sky (Russia Today is included on the Sky EPG, but is independent of Sky)
7

Edward,

11/08/2008 01:43:48
#8 ThomasT
Spoken like a true freind of Russia
You really should not believe all you are told on Russian media outlets
Fact - South Ossetia is part of Georgia
Fact - South Ossetia, with Russian influence wants full autonomy
Fact - Following the last time there was conflict, the Russians sent in a so called Peace Keeping force. This in itself is a contradiction as one of the antagonists in this region is Russia (a bit like the Germans in 1938 sending in peace keepers to the Sudentland). These so called peace keepers handed out Russian passports to South Ossetians making them Russian citizens (remember this is Georgian territory) as well as equiping the militia.
Fact - The Georgian forces did launch an attack against the South Ossentian militia, following attacks made by SO force on Georgian villiges and military. With hinsight the Georgian government should have realised that this was a set up by the Russians
Fact - The Russian air force have command of the sky, so its interesting that the Russian media keeping telling us about South Ossentia being bombed relentlessly by the Georgian air force, but all we see is Russian air force SU 25 Frog Foot jets bombing Gori,the port of Poti and the airport at Tblisi. We even have ssen on tv Russian air force Frog foot attack a civilian car that had a BBC tv crew!

Regardless of who started it, the Russian response is completely over the top and out of proportion to its so called protection of South Ossentia
8

sarmbrst,

11/08/2008 03:42:46
#3, Thank you for reminding everyone that Georgia started this current conflict, not the Russians. And isn't it funny that this sparks while Bush and Putin are both out of their respective countries. And since Georgia's government is blatantly an Anglo-American puppet, this all smells suspiciously like another neo-con provoked puppet-war to me!

If you really want to know whats going on here check out these links:
http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/106046-0/
http://www.fas.org/terrorism/at/index.html
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav040802.shtml
http://schneiderhome.blogspot.com/2008/01/petals-fall-off-rose.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE6D81430F933A2575BC0A965958260
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=66208§ionid=351020602

American mercenaries also appear to be involved in the conflict:
http://www.kommersant.com/p-13072/South_Ossetia/

Go to the 10:30 mark of this video and listen to what the woman says, black uniforms, American flags - sounds like Blackwater to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLFWxGXGCBg

I'm not defending Russia in all of this because the sad truth is that their response is excessive and innocent people are being killed as a result. Russia's leaders are evil and corrupt but they are not stupid. The reason for their strong response is because they know who's behind it all.
9

sarmbrst,

11/08/2008 03:45:31
More evidence, straight from the mouth of the biggest neo-con of them all:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=66235§ionid=3510203
10

W Smith,

Middle East 11/08/2008 03:49:11
Where is Duckman (Alex Salmond) on this?

We all know the routine from the anti-war SNP on this:

1) This is an "illegal" war.....

2) Georgia does not have WMD's....

3) Russian "noecons" at it again....

4) Salmond and his communist friends from Stop The War In Georgia Coalition will be on the march.

5) Salmond's other friend Galloway will be along soon praising the Georgian's Presidents "indifagability".

6) Osama Saeed will express "outrage" on behalf of the muslim community in Scotland over Russian "imperialism".

OR WILL THE LEFT WING SNP JUST LOOK THE OTHER WAY?
11

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 05:36:49
14 foreign affairs are a reserved matter for Westminster.
Broon's big issue this week is knife crime.
12

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 05:41:12
For South Ossetia read 'Sudetenland'
13

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 05:55:06
Let's not lose sight of the fact that Georgia is, in fact, the aggressor in this, with help from the US and Israel.


"Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia"

"Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax."

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358


"It's America's fault" - U.S. citizen in South Ossetia

"An American man living in South Ossetia says U.S. and Georgian leaders are responsible for the violence that has killed 2,000 people in the region. Joe Mestas, who witnessed days of shelling, told RT that Washington will have to answer for the violence.

“I thought that since U.S. is supporting Georgia there would be some control over the situation in South Ossetia and that there would be a peaceful solution to the conflict. But what is happening there now it’s not just war, but war crimes. George Bush and [Georgian president] Mikhail Saakashvili should answer to the crimes that are being committed – the killing of innocent people, running over by tanks of children and women, throwing grenades into cellars where people are hiding,” Joe Mestas said.

“The war is when military fight against military. But the Georgian army is killing innocent civilians. This is genocide,” he added."

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28788
14

Richardinho,

11/08/2008 06:42:01
#14 So you think it's fine for Georgia to attack South Ossetia?
15

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 11/08/2008 07:15:50
As far as I am aware from local news in Azerbaijan, the Georgians retaliated to attacks from separatists in South Ossetia and were therefore, in my opinion, justified in their response.
For folk on this thread to try and justify the OTT reaction by the Russians beggars belief !!
The Russians are displaying just how hypocritical they are with their role in this war.
They say they are trying to "keep the peace" in South Ossetia and are prepared to support the South Ossetians demands for seperatism from Georgia by means of force, yet they denounce the demands of seperatism from the people of Chechnya.
Hypocrisy in the first degree by the Russians.
16

Richardinho,

11/08/2008 07:18:41
#19 The South Ossetians are entitled to their independence if they want it. This is certainly a complicated issue and hard to judge who is 'right'.
17

eric,

Lothian 11/08/2008 07:27:53
Who actually invaded who 1st!Doooh
18

Richardinho,

11/08/2008 07:40:47
I don't know, you tell us.
19

Itchy,

11/08/2008 07:44:40
#4 A man who cannot tell the difference between a private owner and the state.

How servile.

The Russians are once again proving that they are the real imperialists.
20

Itchy,

Lochgelly 11/08/2008 07:45:39
"17 mk-ultra,Edinburgh 11/08/2008 05:55:06
Let's not lose sight of the fact that Georgia is, in fact, the aggressor in this, with help from the US and Israel."

Let's not lose sight of the fact that you are still raging that the Russians lost the cold war.
21

UrbanFox,

11/08/2008 08:23:25
Shows the true colours of Russia. You just cant trust them. Russia are playing with fire, they think they are in control but actually they have no control over the long term consequences of their aggression.
22

Pipe smoker,

Montrose 11/08/2008 09:45:54
It may be of interest to readers that it is clear that, since Thursday, the Russians have jammed (are operating a DDOS against, to be technical)the invariably objective www.civil.ge website. Clearly a planned (mis)information campaign is being waged,and the Russian Ambassador to the UN's remarkably early remarks about 'genocide' should be put in this context.
23

Conan,

Moffat 11/08/2008 09:57:34
The Russian State, heaced by that Napoleonic misfit, Puting will be the spark that leans all of Europe into a hell of a war. For goodness sake, let's stop dealing with these damned Russians - all they know is bulying, bullying, bullying ... its all they have done for the last several centuries ... yet some who post here seem to think they are just fine folks. Yes, the rank and file peoples of Russia are indeed fine folks, but they do have this messianic tendency to follow the first loudmouth who grabs the microphone. In this case that's Putin and his gang of thieves.
24

bluehead,

edinburgh 11/08/2008 09:58:39
destroying countries is almost a hobby now with politicians look at poor old Britain,as a country it is barely recognizable after after the tyranny of the labour government.
25

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 09:59:50
#27

Thank you for advising us on what to believe.
I'm sure at a time like this there is misinformation everywhere.
I'll look out for it.
However, none of this changes the fact that Georgia, the US and Israel are the aggressors in this.

26

Derek Williams,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 10:17:24
I saw the Georgian State Ballet's production of the ballet Giselle last night at the Edinburgh Playhouse, which was full to capacity. A brilliant, colourful production with outstanding performances from start to finish. It allowed a momentary respite from the troubles.
27

K McDonald,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 10:27:41
Paranoid Russia thinks she is being victimized by the nasty evil Western imperialists (and of coarse the jooos, as metioned by the usual totalitarian friendly "anti-war" liberal-left "activists"). Georgia is pro-Western, more or less democratic and as free a society as you will find anywhere in that region.

Imperialist Russia believes she the right to assert her influence in the region and protect "her interests", and we in the The West have no right whatsoever to support its ally or to ensure that Tsar Putin does not control the entire flow of oil into Western Europe.

This is a good old fashioned imperialist power play from the oil-rich Russian gangster regime. Who is next next? Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan or Poland?

28

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 11/08/2008 10:35:37
Revealing to see all the comments from the Scotsman armchair poseurs, sorry, posters, who seem to have set themselves up as Caucasian experts. I suggest they stick to their usual SNP v Labour minor skirmishes and leave comment on the real wars to the National newspapers who are better informed.
29

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 10:36:40
#32
K.MacDonald wrote:

"Paranoid Russia thinks she is being victimized by the nasty evil Western imperialists (and of coarse the jooos, as metioned by the usual totalitarian friendly "anti-war" liberal-left "activists").

Is it still paranoia if the Israeli press admit it?

"Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia"

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

30

James Donald,

Newbridge 11/08/2008 11:32:28
#32 K McDonald,Glasgow - "Who is next next? Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan or Poland?" - Doubtful if Vlad the Impaler Putin will attack Estonia, Latvia (or Lithuania) or Poland as they are all members of the EU and NATO. The Ukraine is probably too big and too well armed (particularly in the air) for the Russians to take on without the exercise being too costly. Azerbaijan seems more likely to fight with Armenia than Russia but I would not rule out Russia trying to destabilise the whole region for its own ends.
31

Mashimaro,

China 11/08/2008 11:40:16
stop stop all this spinning is making me dizzy
32

Edward,

11/08/2008 11:43:50
#17 & #30 MK Ultra
You really a misguided fool accepting the ravings of
the discredited 'Russia Today' tv 'news'channel
Russia Today is so slanted its embaressing. Its the mouthpiece of the Russian Government.
They play up the shelling of South Ossetia, but conveniently ignore the bombing by the Russians of other parts of Georgia, such as Poti and Gori
It conveniently ignored the fact that the Georgians had called a cease fire. It ignored the fact that Civilians vehicles including that of a BBC TV crew were attacked by the Russian air force
It sickenly rants about war crimes by the Georgians and spouts that there will be a tribunal in vague terms, no doubt it will be held in Russia and will find everyone except the Russians quilty!
33

Edward,

11/08/2008 11:48:19
#32 K McDonald,Glasgow
Possibly Ukraine will be next on Russia's 'hit' list
The Ukraine are now advising Russia that they cannot use Sebastapol for the Russian Black Sea fleet
Currently the Russian Navy are maurauding around the Black Sea as if they own it and blockading Georgia's sea port of Poti, which they have also bombarded
34

Neil,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 12:04:35
Georgia declared a ceasfire & then attacked South Ossetia shelling civilians & killing 1400 out of a population of 70,000 in the few hours before Russia intervened. This was an attempt to rerun the Krajina Holocaust carried out by Croatia & organised by US & British.

That is proportionately more than the number of Brits killed by Hitler in 6 years of war. It is most certainly genocide. Russia is right to say so & Russia is right to stop it.

As for whether Russia today is more, or less, propagandist than our own dear media - look at this report. Deis anybody believe there are so many Georgians in Britain & so few russians that it was impossible to find a Russian to quote & photograph. Also the photo shown here is, coincidentally, also from the Georgian side.

This is typical of the British media which has spent som long censoring the fact that our own leaders have been accessorieds in kidnapping & disecting, while alive, at least hundreds of Serb teenagers. A niave commenter here a few days ago denied this happend on the grounds that if it had ot would have ben on the front pages of all our papers, but he seems to have gone silent.

I wish the people involved in genocide were not our leaders & that our media were not guilty of censorship & propagandising to support them - but they are.
35

Edward,

11/08/2008 12:05:03
#41 "Hoots" Fandango
Im fortunately mature enough and have access to a large selection of news channels
Its not a metter of not trusting, its a metter of looking at the picture from many angles
This also includes news agencies that are online
36

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 12:08:28
Great quote from Robertson. Wonder if he has any views on Salmond's views on Kosovo?

Of course in a Scottish state separate from Britain, Scots trops (if not already sucked into a European Super Army) would be watching from the sidelines, having been classified as having 'observer status'.

LOL

37

Edward,

11/08/2008 12:09:57
The Russian's main aim is not South Ossetia, which frankly it couldnt care less about. It will be interesting to see how independent they become under Russian rule.
I would not be surprised if the main objective is a Georgia under Russian influence, which will provide Russia with a warm water port as currently the Russian are not that welcome in Sebastapol, which is in the Ukraine. so a subjugated Georgia with the port of Poti will do quite nicely for the Russians, not only that they will have control of the oil pipelines in southern Georgia
38

SPYRPAGK,

Grreece 11/08/2008 12:10:08
Refer to N 11

Fact 1 Osetia had a privileged stadus even in charist times (some form of self goverment).
Fact 2 Prior to Stalin ( a Georgian i f you don't know it)there was only an Osett sosialist soviet autonomus region within Russia. Stalin break down the Osett sosialist republic and gave the South part to his native Georgia. At the same time the Greek soviet sosialist autonomus region stoped to exist and the inhabitants transferred to Siberia and Soviet Central
Asia

Fact 3 With more than to 2000 civilians brutally murdered by the Georgians and 40,000 refugees to North Osettia out of a total population of 70,000....If this is not ethnic cleancing and genocide i don't know what it is.

Fact 3 95% of osetian have Russian pasports (an agreement made at the Yeltsin era betwwen Russia and Georgia).

Fact 4 the Georgians attacked with provocation and probably with the blessing of USA and Britain the night before the start of the Olybic Games and tried to create de facto situations

Fact 5 whatenever apliess to Kossovo applies also to S.Osetia

Fact 6 The agressor(Georgia) presents Himself as victim.
39

Edward,

11/08/2008 12:23:04
#45
Depends where you start the timeline
but looking at what happened last week, it was South Ossetian militia that had been attacking the Georgian peac keeping posts as well as nearby Georgian villages
The so called Russian peackeepers remained in there camps and did nothing.
Regardless of who started it, the actions by the Russians are very out of proportion to the initial situation. Look for them continueing until they get the desired effect
40

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 12:38:55
46

I'll pass your wise words on to Big Angus at Westminster.
41

,

11/08/2008 12:58:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
42

Armstrong Cowan Again,

11/08/2008 14:54:05
I saw a picture of a dead child in the war area on the news this morning. I am afraid I just wept. Can anyone tell me of a single border worth one child's life?
43

Neil,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 16:11:50
Edward 47 your understanding of the underlying conspiracy the Russians are allegedly engaged in to get a "warm water port" would be more credible if you had looked at a map & seen Russia alreadty has the Black Sea coastline Georgia could provide. You might as well say we sent troops into Iraq because we secretly want to damage Germany's economy by preventing them building a railroad to Baghdad.
44

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 16:25:06
Why; and how does the Western propaganda machine always seem, if required,able to pick up these usually English speaking sycophants of Western freedom and democracy?
What about the innocent victims off those who differ from them which we seldom - if rarely, or ever hear about?
The sad reality about all these conflicts ; are, the victims are usually ordinary people and their families with no political axe to grind!
Where are the wealthy who are the real instigators and culprits off such violence and madness?
Normally, residing in the safety of the USA or in England (not Britain)@
Having served during the Second World War I remember even then, many off the wealthy privileged had their children sent abroad - and their wealth - to escape the horror of war, and the death roll of the Nazi bombing of the UK contained few of their off-springs?
Will the "human race ever wake up?
I doubt very much if they ever will; unless; they take more interest in the behaviour off the sleazy, lying and corrupt politicians they elect to look after them and their families interests
45

Edward,

11/08/2008 16:36:20
#53 Neil

Ok Neil name that Russian port on the Black sea, where there Black Sea fleet is based?
46

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 16:47:21
18 so you think it's fine for Putin's mob to bomb Georgia ?
47

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 16:50:43
33 - I suppose us North Brits are too parochial to see beyond oor shores ?
48

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 16:55:01
Vlad Putin - Uncle Joe's worthy successor. You can take the man oot of the KGB, but cannae take the KGB oot of the man.
49

sarmbrst,

11/08/2008 16:55:08
All this fighting is ridiculous, the FACT (since everyone seems intent on sharing their own version of what the 'facts'are) is that both sides are right to at least some extent. Read the links I posted at #12 & #13. MK-Ultra is right, the Georgians are being pushed into this conflct by the Angol-American regime, which includes Israel (I am not anti-semitic, their own news agencies admit it).

That being said, Russia is obviously use excessive force but they realize that they are not just fighting Georgia, but also the Anglo-American regime as well. They too are a disgusting excuse for a government as well. I hope that no one here is crazy enough to support the Russians, but that being said we need to understand all aspects of this fight.

Bottom line: Russia's evil, the Anglo-American-Israeli alliance is evil (and just to avoid being falsly accused of anything, the Chinese regime, the Iranian regime, Al Qaeda, the Cuban regime, Fascists, Mugabe, Musharaff ... they are ALL evil and just because they are 'enemies' of the West doesn't mean that our regime is in the right or any less evil)
50

sarmbrst,

11/08/2008 16:57:19
Sorry about the typing/spelling errors in #59. I really should read over my responses before I post.
51

Alice Kirk,

USA 11/08/2008 17:14:28
Come on you guys, there's no way America was behind this war. We have better things to do with our money and military. Why do some of you Europeans have such a propensity for blaming every blasted happening on the globe to America?
52

Itchy,

11/08/2008 17:47:27
#61 the lefties are still raging that the communists lost the cold war.

Lefties have to blame the failure of communism and socialism on someone and they are trying to blame America for this tragedy as well.
53

sarmbrst,

11/08/2008 17:53:31
#61 - Wishful thinking doesn't change the fact that the criminal Anglo-American regime has played a sizable role in this (again, see post #12 & #13). They, along with Israel (again, I'm not anti-semitic, I hate the Israeli government, not Israelis or Jews), have been building up Georgia's forces specifically to fight Russia. Why would little Georgia pick a fight with Russia? It's suicide! Ah, but because they take their orders from the Anglo-American cartel, they have to attack when told to do so.

Again, this happens during the start of the Olympics, why? Because our criminal leaders know that the idiot public will be tranfixed on what medals are being won in Beijing, NOT some war in a country half of the western public has never heard of. Plus, Bush and Putin were in China during the start of the conflict so their hands are "clean." Please! You can rest assured that the Anglo-American regime has its hand in at least 90% of what goes on in the world - including this!

Once more, go to the 10:30 mark of this video. The poor woman perfectly describes the uniform of American mercinery company, Blackwater. Ask yourself, why would a soldier killed in this conflict have an American flag on his uniform?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLFWxGXGCBg
54

Waus,

safety bay Australia 11/08/2008 17:56:25
Well said "" the Russians are the naked agressors just look at their historical track record in the 20/21st century
55

ThomasP,

11/08/2008 18:21:29
#66

Idiot. Is this about Scotland and Scottish Independence? No. Get over yourself. The world is bigger then what happens in London...
56

Rosscobhoy,

11/08/2008 18:41:31
Can we not just send in a few thousand of our boys to act as peacekeepers? They surely can't be that busy right now.....
57

Neil,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 18:42:07
Alice 61 I'm afraid the big untold story about this comes in 2 parts. Firstly that this was clearly an attempt to repeat the "Operation Storm" the American prganised genocide of the people of Krajina in Croatia. The US officers (& probably some British) were all "on sabbatical" & paid through MPRI, America's officially sanctioned mercenaries, but they ran it & at least 100,000 Sebs were murdered. Secondly that until a few days before the attack 1,000 US troops were there in a "training exercise" of the Georgian army.

Georgia is a satellite state whose election was bought & paid for by CIA & other western intelligence money.

The conclusion is inescapable that the Georgian genocidal attack was organised in advance by Bush's neocons. Sorry & I do accept that, as we proved by bombing Yugoslavia, America has no monopoly in having genocidal war criminals as leaders. I alsp agree with you that there are so many better things you & we could spens our money on. Bosnia & Kosovo were not worth participating in genocide, child sex slavery, & dissecting teens for. They weren't worth destroying international law for. But they weren't even worth the money we paod & are still paying for them.

Edward 55 stop trying to defend your insane claim that there are no Russian "warm water" ports on the Black Sea. Anybody on here can look at a map. There are dozens of which Asov os the largest. Your willingness to ignore the most obvious reality to maintain your lunatic paranoia only shows how unjustified it is.
58

fritigern,

Inverness 11/08/2008 19:16:35
Suppose last week Serbia had launched an attack to reclaim its lost province Of Kosovo. By now large parts of Belgrade would be a smoking ruin after Nato air raids. In comparison the Russians are restrained. Why do Western leaders believe that the borders of Georgia are inviolable, irrespective of the wishes of the inhabitants, whilst those of Serbia were not?
59

lulach mac gille coemgain,

11/08/2008 19:42:34
Hey! this snash happened in Scotland 250 years ago - it just goes roond and roond and roond - nothing changes but the power of the weapons !
60

mike - across the pond,

one of you uber leftists 11/08/2008 19:44:28
PLEASE explain to me what the difference between Osetti Georgia and Checniya Russia...

both of these regions want "freedom" from their current "masters"...

Russia is righteously defending the separatists in Ossettia contrary to the SOVERIEGNTY of Georgia

Russia is righteously enforcing THEIR soveriegnty in Chechnia

I'm just a little confused here.... there just HAS to be some nuance I am missing here....

oh god please dont arouse the little yellow quibblers...
61

mike - across the pond,

neil.... 11/08/2008 19:58:25
couple small questions here...

point out where I am wrong here:

Ossetia is a region in the SOVERIEGN nation of Georgia, is it not?

arent there clauses in the UN charter that SPECIFICALLY FORBID what Russia is doing within the borders of the SOVERIEGN nation of Georgia?

are there ANY UN resolutions concerning Ossetia, not to mention a remarkable lack of UN authority to invade Georgia? not to mention engaging the GEORGIAN military.

Putin said if Georgia pursued entrance into NATO, there would be dire military consequences.... Georgia pursued NATO, Russia has invaded Georgia... any body else see a connection there?
62

Alice Kirk,

11/08/2008 19:59:52
74, sorry you feel so personally impotent, but not to worry. At least your leaders understand reason.
63

mike - across the pond,

neil 11/08/2008 20:07:36
"Bosnia & Kosovo were not worth participating in genocide, child sex slavery, & dissecting teens for. "

I truly hope that was sarcasm... if not, I'm glad I live in a bigger world than yours...

personally I believe "genocide, child sex slavery, & dissecting teens" is MORE than ample cause for us sending troops in...

and if you got off your dead ar$e and supported it you could go a LONG way towards solving these kinds of issues in other parts of the world they are going on in....
64

K McDonald,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 20:11:17
>>Scottish National Party (SNP) in Georgia

Building on the experience gained from its previous work in the Caucasus and in the UK, the SNP organised seminars in Georgia in April 2005, one in the capital Tbilisi and the second in Garbadani, a provincial town. The seminars looked at civic nationalism, exploring difficult issues around breaching ethnic divisions and developing a unified and non-exclusive concept of nationhood. The participants were political activists from varied backgrounds.<<<

Would like to hear FM Salmond comment on the current crisis. Would appreciate it if he were to associate himself with the statements of Swedish FM Carl Bildt and other Wee Countries:

Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt
"No state has the right to intervene militarily in the territory of another state simply because there are individuals there with a passport issued by that state or who are nationals of the state," Bildt said in a statement.

"Attempts to apply such a doctrine have plunged Europe into war in the past... And we have reason to remember how Hitler used this very doctrine little more than half a century ago to undermine and attack substantial parts of central Europe," Bildt said.


Estonia also expressed concern at Russia's justification that it was acting to protect Russians in South Ossetia.

"When military aggression is justified with the need to protect the interests of Russian citizens in Georgia, it causes a serious concern for states that have residents with Russian citizenship," Foreign Minister Urmas Paet said in a statement.

"Once again Russia has shown it can not fit to the peacekeeping role in that region," Paet added.

Estonia called on UN Security Council, EU and other international organisations to take urgent action "to end the aggression of Russia against Georgia and to avoid the escalation of the conflict to the neighboring regions."

Poland, the biggest of the former Soviet bloc nations in the European Union, has been a s
65

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 20:43:42

"Now using American weapons Georgia for reasons yet to be revealed has violated its own agreement with Russia and attacked South Ossetia, killing in the process Russian peacekeepers. Vladimir Vasilyev, chairman of the Russian State Duma Committee for Security told the press: “The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America.”
Yes, without America there would be no war in Ossetia and no war between Russia and its former constituent part.
Without America there would be no war in Afghanistan. No war in Iraq.
Without America there would not be 1.2 million dead Iraqis and 4 million displaced Iraqis. We have no idea of the toll on Afghan civilians, although women and children appear to be the prime targets of the US/NATO forces that are “bringing peace and freedom to Afghanistan.”
(From the article "The Moronic Party" by Dr Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.)

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08112008.html
66

K McDonald,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 21:51:30
Day.Az interview with Zeyno Baran, director of the program on Eurasian policy of the Hudson Institute (US).

http://www.today.az/news/politics/46858.html

Q - There is an opinion that Saakashvili could not take such a critical step as initiative of release of the occupied lands by force, without White House approval...

A - This is a completely wrong opinion. As is known, the diversions in the conflict area continued through the past weeks and the United States called on Georgia not to react to these provocations and continue search of the peaceful way out of the situation. I would like to note that if not for the US intensive attempt to reconcile the parties, the events, we are witnessing now, would have occurred even earlier.

67

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 22:14:57
The Hudson Institute.

"The Hudson Institute is an American, non-profit, neo-conservative think tank founded in 1961, in Croton-on-Hudson, New York, by futurist, military strategist, and systems theorist Herman Kahn and his colleagues at the RAND Corporation."
(Wiki)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Institute


You may as well ask Dick Cheney for his opinions.


"Hudson Institute is today one of America's foremost policy research centers, in the forefront of study and debate on important domestic and international policy issues, known and respected around the globe, a leader in innovative thinking and creative solutions to the challenges of the present and the future"
(Henry Kissinger)

"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used."
(Henry Kissinger)
68

Itchy,

11/08/2008 22:19:54
#65"Track record? Like losing millions in WWII? Like standing against the Nazis?
Bile yer heid."

Like signing a non-aggression pact with the Nazis. Like killing millions of their own people. Like invading Poland, Finland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

Boil your head, you commie sympathizer.
69

Itchy,

11/08/2008 22:20:38
"63 sarmbrst,11/08/2008 17:53:31
#61 - Wishful thinking doesn't change the fact that the criminal Anglo-American regime has played a sizable role in this"

Marxist conspiracy theory.
70

ThomasP,

11/08/2008 22:20:50
#74

You are one of the biggest idiots I have ever met.

This topic is not about Britain/Scotland. Do you understand?

The only matter you have shown is that Scotland should either opt for a European Military or at least to join NATO (that may happen without SNP support)
71

Neil,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 23:59:35
McDonald 80 the US having said Georgia should not attack Osetia is in no way evidence that they didn't organise it. There is a video of Tudjman the croatian Nazi leader answering a question about why they didn't accept official American advice not to carry out the Krajina Holocaust.

He just breaks down in laughter.

The parallels between the Krajina genocide & what was attempted in Ossetia are far to obvious to dismiss & nobody seriously denies the US & NATO organised & participated in the former.

Mike #77. I have never seen such a disgusting openly Nazi statement from anybody on this site. Even the Albanian terrorist based in London who said he wanted to shoot me & anybody who treats Serbs as human beings was not so obscene. To say that you are glad to have gone to war against Yugoslavia because it gave you Yanks a chancec to commit genocide, rape children & dissect living humans places you personally far beneath the scum that ran Auschwitz.

I will say that I do not believe you remotely represent the average American.
72

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 12/08/2008 00:44:12
More admissions and boasting in the Israeli press:

"War in Georgia: The Israeli connection"

"For past seven years, Israeli companies have been helping Gerogian army to preparer for war against Russia through arms deals, training of infantry units and security advice"
Arie Egozi

"The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight. This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces."
....

"Georgian minister: Israel should be proud"

"The Israelis should be proud of themselves for the Israeli training and education received by the Georgian soldiers," Georgian Minister Temur Yakobashvili said Saturday.

Yakobashvili is a Jew and is fluent in Hebrew. "We are now in a fight against the great Russia," he said, "and our hope is to receive assistance from the White House, because Georgia cannot survive on its own.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1%2C2506%2CL-3580136%2C00.html

73

sarmbrst,

12/08/2008 02:08:02
#74 sm753 - Oh, the "tinfoil helmet" accusation, did you think of that yourself. Again, an argument with no substance. You point fingers, name-call yet present no facts. That's alright though, why you choose to live in ignorance and denial, lapping up every piece of propaganda thrown at you, I'll continue presenting facts.

#83 Itchy - I am NOT a Marxist, nor will I ever support the ideals of Marxism. Furthermore, if the truth (see post #12 & #13 - i could literally give you dozens more articles) is a conspiracy theory, then I guess your accusation stands uncontested.

I haven't theorized about anything here! I've read a ton of articles about the conflict from both sides of the aisle and I realize that most (both western and Russian) is propaganda. But if you can't accept that and think that western media is less-biased, then I guess there is no helping you. The difference between western media and Russian media is that while the corrupt state runs most of Russia's media, about five international billionaires with their own corrupt agendas run our so-called "news."
74

Matt there,

somewhere 12/08/2008 02:12:13
Wow! At last! The Communist tools have received new orders! After years of no instructions from their former KGB handlers, new orders have come through from the successor body the FSB.

"You must attack Georgia through all available media outlets!"

"Hurrah! Let's hope they use the People's nuclear bomb!" ranted No Brainz o'Idiot.

(And yes, this was satire.)
75

John Lawson,

Roses, Spain 12/08/2008 04:57:16
On April 9, 1991, shortly before the collapse of the USSR, Georgia declared independence. On May 26, 1991, Zviad Gamsakhurdia was elected as a first President of independent Georgia. However, he was soon deposed in a bloody coup d'état, from December 22, 1991 to January 6, 1992. The coup was instigated by part of the National Guards and a paramilitary organization called "Mkhedrioni". The country became embroiled in a bitter civil war which lasted almost until 1995. Eduard Shevardnadze returned to Georgia in 1992 and joined the leaders of the coup — Kitovani and Ioseliani — to head a triumvirate called the "State Council".
In 1995, Shevardnadze was officially elected as a president of Georgia. At the same time, two regions of Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, quickly became embroiled in disputes with local separatists that led to widespread inter-ethnic violence and wars. Supported by Russia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia achieved de facto independence from Georgia. More than 250,000 Georgians were ethnically cleansed from Abkhazia by Abkhaz separatists and North Caucasians volunteers (including Chechens) in 1992-1993. More than 25,000 Georgians were expelled from Tskhinvali as well, and many Ossetian families were forced to abandon their homes in the Borjomi region and move to Russia.
76

James Donald,

Newbridge 12/08/2008 13:29:44
#86 Neil,Glasgow - "Tudjman the croatian Nazi leader..." - Your description of Tudjman as a "Nazi leader" is ludicrous since he was Communist Partisan in WW2 and Jugoslav Officer post war (the Nazi Party was dissolved in 1945). You may despise this man but he was a product of Tito's Serb-dominated Yugoslavia.
77

Neil,

Glasgow 12/08/2008 19:20:40
I do despies the man. He became a partisan officer in 1944 when Germany was losing & Tito offered a no-questions-asked deal that Nazi officers who brought their units over could continue to serve. Prior to that he was a Croatian Nazi leader & his post war writings about how "the new world order can be justified by the need to be rid of the Jews", how only a few hundred thousand died in the Holocaust & anyway it was run by the Jews themselves indicates that he did not change his philosohy when he changed sides.
78

bluehead,

edinburgh 14/08/2008 10:26:03
if the Georgian politicians keep kissing the American presidential posterior,it is more than likely they will never get any peace,they should be very wary of Bush and his mob,or it could get even worse.
the Americans,like the Russians are not be trusted,even at the best of times!!!!

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.