Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


The Pre-Budget Report: Full coverage

 
1

Warden An' All, Reborn,

25/11/2008 02:24:48
Six years seems to be a long time for things to work out for Alistair Darling considering the next general election will be before that time.
2

,

25/11/2008 02:25:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

,

25/11/2008 02:41:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

,

25/11/2008 02:46:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

M.T.,

25/11/2008 03:11:08
A 2p tax increase onto diesel will add 1% onto the cost of everything transported on an H.G.V. i.e. food, children's clothes, adult's clothes, newspapers, petrol, etc. The 2.5% decrease on VAT will do nothing to counteract this.

Effectively the government have increased the cost of living for everyone who eats and wears clothes.
6

Thomas1,

// 25/11/2008 03:40:31
so the good times are over then!
in the long term you should learn from this and that is take nothing for granted in this world.
Just think if the the toris win the next Uk election they also win the debt,makes me snigger a little
7

SouthernSkye,

25/11/2008 05:40:22
6 Thomas1,//
..."Just think if the the toris win the next Uk election they also win the debt,makes me snigger a little...."

very grown up. The UK is ferked until, hopefully, around 2016. Does this not worry you at all?
8

pehman,

sussex 25/11/2008 06:55:13
A report came out yesterday that said the uk could see power cuts if this winter turns out to be really cold. there isn't enough back up.

With uk Gov debt at record levels already and about to get much worse, if something unexpected happens? how will the uk gov be able to sort it if it cant borrow more.
9

Marian,

25/11/2008 08:28:37
So its official now- vote for New Labour and get record levels of debt and higher taxes for all!
10

Bigwull,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 08:38:13
Why did they not simply remove the upper limit for National Insurance and therefore ensure the High Earners pay their fare share of that as well? Also it seems as usual that those on PAYE will have to pay for all this, the others will use tax avoidance proceedures as usual.
11

Sparky,

Hamilton 25/11/2008 08:45:24
Cut in the rate of VAT. Keep hold of your till receipt from the supermarket this week and then compare it with the same items after the rate cut. I think you will find the prices are exactly the same.
Remember when Gordon Brown used the term Fiscal Prudence in every sentence.
12

Bigwull,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 08:47:49
9 And the tories would do what exactly, other than engineer 4mill plus on the dole, scrap the minimum wage, reinstate workhouses, jeeze its a world problem and if people would stop panicking it would go away, government tries to restore confidence, media decides its not going to allow it to happen because its sensational news and therefore increases the panic, its a vicious circle. I think it was President Roosevelt that said "We have nothing more to fear than fear itself" clearly the free market isn't capable of sorting this mess out so someone has to. Rant over.
13

John south of Soutra,

25/11/2008 09:41:25
That's it Big Wull you just keep on defending them, they have taken the country into financial ruin, and they are not sorting anything out, they have re-arranged the deckchairs to make it look as though they have done something
14

noswod,

Honestas 25/11/2008 10:22:44
Back tae the sixties. Oor ain Mr Sweep powered by the hand o Dennis Healey banged oot a bust budget in the best tradition of old labour. Massive budget deficit tax the rich and poor totally incoherent no rabbits or even hats (too expensive). The emergency budget did nothing to address the structural economic deficienicies of the UK. No new social housing, no transport investment such as High Speed Rail, no meaningful investment into manufacturing/knowledge based industries. A typical short sighted treasury led attempt to stimulate consumption and imports. If there is to be a deficit of £150bn why not spend the cash on something useful rather that waste the cash ? Boom and Bust here we are but for those out of a home nae chance, motor car workers on short time heres yer cards. The way out of boom and bust is savings and investment and a lot of moral sentiments a Scotsman may have said that.
15

Calum10,

25/11/2008 10:38:18
Simple Truth: "You cannot trust Labour with the economy."
16

bluehead,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 10:41:10
brown and darling have just proved that even with them joining their brains together, and using up to date computers systems ,they would still have to take of their socks to count passed ten,
trouble is that while they only get the dunces caps, the people of this country will have diabolical problems for years through this pair of dunces.
what a way to run a country!!!!!!
I wouldn't give that pair a job selling balloons at a jumble sale let alone run a country,
this was once a wonder full country until labour got control ,now it is just a mess.
17

Black Five,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 11:14:29
This government hates the motorist and us who like a wee dram.G T F at next election.
18

Bigwull,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 11:14:37
13 I think you'll find it was the greed of the banks and that bastion of capitalism good old Uncle Sam that caused this and just about every other recession, still no answer as to what the tories would do, or would they just pull up the drawbridge and let the people starve as they did in the 30's and 80's?
16 the mistake they made was not regulating the banks when they had the chance, and still no sign of that happening either, still no idea what has happened to all the banks massive profits over the last 10 years, why weren't the shareholders made to pay this money back before the rest of us bailed them out, afterall they had pocketed all the profits over the years.
Please explain when Britain was ever a wonderful country under any tory government, except for the few. It strikes me that everything was ok until Blair got into bed with the Bush regime.
19

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

25/11/2008 11:53:47
#18 One could argue that with Blair and NuLabour following Thatcher and Major that we have had 29 years of Tory government.
20

Marga,

Edinburgh 25/11/2008 11:55:53
Bigwull, just a reminder:

At last year's G8 Summit in Heiligendamm, Germany, George W Bush and Gordon Brown vetoed Angela Merkel's agenda item for co-operation over tighter international regulation and financial oversight of capital markets.
21

uno.who,

Livingston 25/11/2008 11:59:11
This Government is a bunch of morons .... and, sadly, they think we are too ! Kick-starting the economy my @rse ! If you're not an OAP and don't have kids, this whole sorry farce is going to cost you money. If you're struggling at the moment, how on earth is reducing VAT by £2.50 in every £100 on non-essential goods going to encourage you to spend? Food and kids clothing don't attract VAT at the moment. If you're at your spending limit now, where will you get cash to pay for reduced VAT luxuries? As for fuel ... once again we're an easy target for an incompetent chancellor. People need to get about, even if it's just to go to work .... and public transport is dire. This country is going down the toilet.

22

lulach mac gille coemgain,

25/11/2008 12:09:26
Oh dear !
23

lulach mac gille coemgain,

25/11/2008 12:10:34
Anybody watchin Scotlands History ?

Sheesh ! How did we get to this ?
24

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 25/11/2008 12:16:01
#19 wrote:

"#18 One could argue that with Blair and NuLabour following Thatcher and Major that we have had 29 years of Tory government."

I really find comments like this hard to understand. They seem roundly based on pure ignorance - so I guess I find them somewhat incomprehensible.

For instance the Thatcher government reduced its debt burden from 31.3% to 15% between 1986 and 1990.

The rise in debt since Labour's 1997 victory has been astonishing. Personal debt rose from £570bn to more than £1,511bn; total private sector debt has gone up from 133% of GDP in 1997 to 227% now.

Britain had been bankcrupted and was hand in cap in debt to the IMF before Thatcher came to power.

Thatchers policies are very different to those of NuLabour because they aimed at reducing debt - whereas NuLabour has deliberately presided over a debt bubble that has massively exposed UK plc once there is a downturn.

Equating these two things is like equating chalk and cheese - but I guess ignorance rules.

Perhaps people equate NuLab and Thatcher because they both rejected socialism. But to use an analogy, both atheists and christians would reject Islam, but it doesn't mean they are both the same.
25

Niall,

Fraserburgh 25/11/2008 12:19:28
BANKRUPTCY!

Another great dividend of the Union.
26

Bigwull,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 12:42:37
If there's no jobs left in the South East, they can always get on their bike and find a job elsewhere, can't they? Will a bout of(18 years) hard line cut the fat out not do London and the South East some good. Thatcher ensured we no longer produce anything and therefore our economy is based on nothing solid we just rely on cockney wide boys gambling on stocks and shares.
27

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

25/11/2008 12:56:20
#24 Thatcherism is/was only one brand of Toryism. Mnay in NuLabour would have been perfectly comfortable with Heath's one-nation Toryism.
28

Sumlogic,

Scotland 25/11/2008 13:34:14
People still seem to wonder about Scotland being able to stay afloat if Independent and yet fail to see the debt tide level rising all round UK Plc and their Union.

Scotland would likely have to borrow (initially) to survive as an Independent nation however isn’t that just what it’s doing anyway while burdened by its ‘GROWING’ share of the UK national debt!

Come on people…maybe the 'savour Brown' is actually partly responsible for the problems he’s trying to fix, at all our costs; wont cost him personally though as he will be loaded with a fat pension and a cushy number with some Bank somewhere when he’s finally ousted!

I bet his myopic supporters in Glenrothes etc cannot say the same!
29

JCA REID,

Annan 25/11/2008 13:50:41
Still the Party of Blunder & Plunder!!
They oversaw this mess, paying for everything on "tick" & doing absolutely NOTHING to create wealth - except for their own pension plans!!
This debt is going to take two generations to sort out AT LEAST!!
30

Warden An' All, Reborn,

25/11/2008 13:58:44
What an incredibly audacious move by the government. It certainly will have all other parties secretly admiring them from behind closed doors.
You have to hand it to them, and the next general election may well just have been, to put into motion a plan which would cut short a recession in time and neuter all the other political parties just in case is simply genius.


31

WSS,

sandbach 25/11/2008 16:59:08
An Independent Scotland in 2010 will have to accept it's share of the debt which Brown and Darling have hung round the neck of the whole country. The Barnet formula will apply to share debt as well as wealth.
32

Thomas1,

// 25/11/2008 17:38:08
This dump of a country make me sick,people spend more in one year on total absolute sh!t than some people spend in other poor parts of the world in their entire lifetimes just trying to survife.
But then again where all preconditioned greedy baskets giving a few pence here and there to charity trying to make our shitty little lifes seem worthwhile.
33

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:11:18
This, so called, "crisis" is in fact an opportunity. An opportunity to abandon our object fet!sh, and invest in a fairer society. A society where old folks don't freeze to death while energy companies make record profits, a society where free school meals are a right rather than an unaffordable luxury, a society where the economy is in the service of the people rather than the other way round.

Or it could be an opportunity to privatize common goods and services, strip the nation of our sovereignty, and sell us into penury for generations all for the good of the "New World Order".

Which opportunity do you think Darling and Broon will seize?
34

Chum of Boris,

Henley on Thames 25/11/2008 18:14:07
28 Sumlogic

There's no logic in your post.

Scottish banks went bust and the English taxpayers have to bail them out. A Scottish PM and a Scottish Chancellor are putting us all in hock up to our eyeballs.

Rather than blaming the union you should be apologising for the mess that Scots banks and institutions have made of the English economy.
35

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:18:14
By Sandrine Rastello and Brian Parkin

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy ruled out copying the U.K.'s sales-tax cut to boost their economies while saying they may increase aid to their embattled auto manufacturers.

Sarkozy, at a joint news conference with Merkel in Paris today, said falling consumer prices in the 27-nation bloc mean that reducing value-added tax ``is not the right response for France and Germany.''

tinyurl.com/5eqw4a
36

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:22:35
Is Britain's Stimulus Plan a Wise Move?

The economic picture in Britain—Europe's second-largest economy—is getting ugly. The country's GDP growth has started to slow, unemployment levels have risen at their fastest rate in almost two decades, the value of British real estate has fallen 15% in the last year, and the pound has lost a quarter of its value against the dollar since midsummer.

The package may be necessary, but analysts question its long-term consequences for the British economy. The country's public finances—already facing a roughly 4% deficit—will come under additional strain as policymakers take on more debt to jump-start lagging consumer spending. As a result of the new stimulus package, public borrowing will top £118 billion ($178.6 billion) next year, equivalent to approximately 8% of Britain's total GDP. To pay for these extra costs, experts figure taxes eventually will have to be increased and government spending slashed. That raises questions about whether Britain's $30.2 billion recovery package will help the country shrug off its current economic woes—or make matters worse in the future.

tinyurl.com/6hfzgj
37

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:38:27
Civil Service to lose jobs and buildings
By Nigel Morris
Tuesday, 25 November 2008


Civil service numbers will be cut and official buildings sold off as the Government trims £35bn from its own bills.


Further job losses among civil servants look inevitable. A series of assets could be sold to the private sector, although the downturn may mean a low price for the taxpayer.

Ministers are considering selling Ordnance Survey and the Met Office. The Queen Elizabeth II conference centre in Westminster could be on the market, and buildings owned by British Waterways. The Forestry Commission and British Nuclear Fuels' stake in Urenco, a uranium enrichment company, may also go.

tinyurl.com/5ahov4
38

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:43:34
World's worst recession since 1980s will hit Britain hard, OECD warns
Larry Elliott, economics editor
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday November 25 2008 12.21 GMT

Britain will be one of the developed countries worst affected by the severest recession to hit the global economy since the early 1980s, the West's leading economic thinktank said today.

In its half-yearly health check of global growth, the OECD said Western economies would contract by 0.4% in 2009, but bracketed the UK with other nations such as Hungary, Iceland and Spain that were most vulnerable to the credit crunch or to falling house prices.

"The downturn is expected to be severe in economies most vulnerable to the financial crisis or to sharp house price falls. These include Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Spain, Turkey and the UK," it said in its Economic Outlook.

tinyurl.com/6oldcf

Arc of insolvency indeed.
39

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:49:45
Is Britain going bankrupt?

Posted By: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard at Nov 24, 2008 at 20:06:10

The bond vigilantes are restive.
We are not yet facing a replay of the 1970s 'Gilts Strike', but we are not that far off either.

There is now a palpable fear that global investors may start to shun British debt as the budget deficit rockets to £118bn - 8 per cent of GDP - or charge a much higher price to cover default risk.
The cost of insuring against the bankruptcy of the British state has broken out - upwards - over the last month. Yes, credit default swaps (CDS) are dodgy instruments, but they are the best stress barometer that we have.

Today they reached 86 basis points, near Portuguese debt in the league table. For good reason. Alistair Darling has had to admit that the British economy faces the most sudden economic collapse since World War Two, and the worst budget deficit of any major country in the world.

tinyurl.com/629r69
40

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 18:49:46
Is Britain going bankrupt?

Posted By: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard at Nov 24, 2008 at 20:06:10

The bond vigilantes are restive.
We are not yet facing a replay of the 1970s 'Gilts Strike', but we are not that far off either.

There is now a palpable fear that global investors may start to shun British debt as the budget deficit rockets to £118bn - 8 per cent of GDP - or charge a much higher price to cover default risk.
The cost of insuring against the bankruptcy of the British state has broken out - upwards - over the last month. Yes, credit default swaps (CDS) are dodgy instruments, but they are the best stress barometer that we have.

Today they reached 86 basis points, near Portuguese debt in the league table. For good reason. Alistair Darling has had to admit that the British economy faces the most sudden economic collapse since World War Two, and the worst budget deficit of any major country in the world.

tinyurl.com/629r69
41

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 25/11/2008 18:55:22
I don't think the lowering of the VAT rate will have any serious benefit to the economy. The change is minimal, food and children's clothes are already zero rated. All this does is add a burden to business as they change their practices to allow for the change. End prices will not drop. Which small shop is going to change their prices and pricelists, menus and advertising?

Certain industries are particularly affected by the credit crunch, such as building companies and household goods suppliers.

The Bank of England was way behind the curve over the last year. (Northern Rock was over a year ago) Interest rates should be about 1%. Sterling should have been allowed to fall to make exports cheap and encourage tourism. There is no serious money for imports in the system.

The lower earners should have been taken out of the taxation system. No one under £12,000 a year should pay income tax. At present it is just over £6000. These earners are more likely to spend than those higher up the wage scales whose present concerns are clearing their credit cards and paying the mortgage.

The banks received much taxpayer support and still they are not lending to businesses and individuals.

This recession will be far worse than anything the politicians are prepared to tell us. We cannot as a country borrow more to clear debt. It was uncontrolled debt that has got us to this sorry pass.
42

mike3,

25/11/2008 19:05:43
The crisis over housing debt securities kicked off in America, but the depths of the UK financial crisis started here. Over extended borrowers and nothing in the government kitty despite a doubling of taxation by one G Brown.
43

snecked,

25/11/2008 19:12:57
35 Chum of Henley

" Northern Rock a Scottish Bank? Lloyds a Scottish Bank? HBOS a Scottish Bank? Bradford and Bingley a Scottish Bank?
None of the above are Scottish banks (not even HBOS which is big majority Halifax).
What's your actual point (apart fromn the usual English attempt to blame every body else for the bankrupting of the UK economy). Unless you can persuade me that there is a majority of Scottish MPs making up the House of Commons I will have to accept that he present PM and Chancellor were actually chosen by a Parliament in which nine-tenths of the members are actually English
44

snecked,

Argyll 25/11/2008 19:15:10
If you count in PFI debt (which you should) as "National Debt" we leave Potugal standing in the most debt-ridden state in Europe stakes
45

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 19:15:40
tinyurl.com/6oyvk9
46

Marian,

25/11/2008 19:56:04
Brown and Darlings smoke and mirrors pre-budget statement is not fit for purpose as all the banks are indulging in a process of deleveraging the like of which we have never seen before.

They are withdrawing from the risk market completely and relying on existing lending to make profits.

When banks refuse to lend to companies with proven track records these companies run the risk of going under. When that starts to happen there will be a domino effect.

So many people will lose their jobs that any amount of fiscal stimulus will have no effect whatsoever.

Unemployed people cannot boost economic activity.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 

More News

More News >>

More Labour Party

More Labour Party >>

Features

Online Supplements
Paperboy Paperboy Customised news
Scottish Business Briefing Scottish Business Briefing ...Sign up today


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.