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Wind farms: now we've got the biggest in Europe

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Published Date: 22 July 2008
ALEX Salmond declared Scotland on the brink of a renewables revolution yesterday as he gave the go-ahead for the largest wind farm in Europe.
The First Minister told the World Renewable Energy Congress in Glasgow the green light had been given to a 152-turbine project in South Lanarkshire. The chairman of the congress then hailed Mr Salmond as the "saint of renewable energy".

Mr Salmond now expects Scotland to become the green-energy capital of Europe and a major exporter of renewable energy – a move that could bring billions of pounds into the economy.

With plans lodged for hundreds more wind turbines, as well as Scotland's huge potential in wave, tidal, hydro and solar power, and biomass, he said approval for the Clyde wind farm "demonstrates that we are only at the start of the renewables revolution in Scotland".

But sceptics questioned whether Scotland was going in the right direction with its strong focus on wind.

The announcement for the Clyde wind farm near Abington means Scotland will be home to two of the three largest onshore wind farms in Europe.

The 548-megawatt wind farm, which will be capable of powering 320,000 homes, is bigger even than the Whitlee project near Glasgow, which at 322MW is already the second largest in Europe. The largest operational wind farm in Europe is at Guadalajara in Spain.

Mr Salmond's announcement was met with a round of applause by delegates from more than 80 countries.

It means more than 4.5 gigawatts of renewable energy has been approved in Scotland, putting it just 400MW away from meeting its targets of generating 31 per cent of its electricity demand from renewable sources by 2011.

Mr Salmond told the congress: "The initial target of 31 per cent will be exceeded long before 2011, and by 2011 we will be through that target by a very, very substantial margin."

He was confident of meeting the target of producing 50 per cent of energy from renewables by 2020. He told The Scotsman: "I am even more confident about that than about the 2011 target. By 2020, we will be able to mobilise some of our gigantic stuff offshore."

He predicted that, in the future, it will be offshore energy, such as wind, wave and tidal power, that will hold the most potential for Scotland. By about 2050, he forecast that offshore renewables would be able to generate 60GW of power – ten times the amount consumed in Scotland each year.

This means Scotland has the potential to become a huge exporter of renewable energy. Mr Salmond wants to see a sub-sea "supergrid" connecting Scotland with the rest of Europe.

He said that, as well as enabling Scotland to tackle the growing threat of global warming and helping the EU meet its targets of producing 20 per cent of energy from renewables by 2020, it would mean there was an opportunity for the country to benefit. "We are delighted to supply the rest of Europe, but there has to be a benefit," the First Minister said.

Jason Ormiston, the chief executive of Scottish Renewables, agreed transforming this country into a key exporter of renewables could be "absolutely massive" for the economy.

He said: "We are in a very good position because our demand for electricity is relatively low but the amount we could potentially generate is enormous. There could be a massive market."

The £600 million Clyde wind-farm development, to be built by Airtricity, part of Scottish and Southern Energy, on either side of the M74, is expected to create 200 jobs during construction.

Martin McAdam, the director of renewable development at Airtricity, said he thought the First Minister had a "great vision for this country".

Dr Richard Dixon, of WWF Scotland, said: "Given the urgent need to tackle climate change, news that Scotland's renewable electricity target may be met earlier than expected is welcome."

But he added that generating more renewable energy is only "part of the solution. To effectively deliver cuts in pollution, efforts to increase the use of renewable energy must run beside a strong Scottish Climate Change Bill."

Meanwhile a £4.3 million programme funded by the European Commission will be launched at the congress today. It will study how marine energy can be developed commercially.

Government 'going over the top with wind power'

SCOTLAND is too focused on wind power at the expense of other technology based on saving energy and producing clean electricity, which would also be more economical, according to some leading environmental thinkers.

More than 80 plans are currently lodged for new onshore wind farms in Scotland, which could lead to more than 1,600 extra turbines being built across the country.

About 50 more wind farms already have permission but are yet to be built, bringing about 700 more turbines.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has outlined his plans for Scotland to lead the way in Europe, using renewable energy to tackle climate change while boosting the economy.

But as Scotland stands on the brink of a major investment in wind power, Professor Andrew Bain, an economist who was made an OBE for services to the Scottish economy, said the government was going "over the top with wind".

He said that 50 per cent of Scotland's energy should be produced by fossil-fuel power stations using carbon capture and storage techniques to collect the damaging emissions, and the other half by a mix of nuclear and renewables. He said: "The primary failing of wind power is that it is intermittent. You can't rely on it when you need it. If it's well placed it can operate at 30 per cent of capacity on average."

He argued that far more focus was needed on carbon capture and storage.

"Most electricity is going to be generated from fossil fuels for the next few decades and we have to find a way of eliminating the carbon emissions from that," he said.

Unlike Mr Salmond, he believes nuclear is a good option, providing clean energy at low cost.

And he remains sceptical of plans for a supergrid that would enable Scotland to transmit energy to the rest of Europe.

"You have to build a grid. It's very expensive," he said. "I don't think we will be able to produce energy economically for export. The taxpayer or electricity consumer would end up footing the bill."

Helen McDade, the head of policy for the John Muir Trust, agreed that there was too much emphasis on wind.

She said wind farms should not be built in isolated areas, where it could cost huge amounts to connect to the national grid.

"This is a vastly expensive and hugely wasteful way of going about generating our renewable energy," she said.

She added that there was no need to build on beauty spots because Scotland was on track to meet its renewable targets.

"A combination of energy-efficiency measures and more green electricity production near where it is required will meet our renewable targets without disfiguring the landscapes," she said.

Substations key to exporting green energy

AN £84 million project has been completed that will boost the transmission of renewable energy across the UK.

ScottishPower has commission two 400kV primary substations in South Lanarkshire. One – at Elvanfoot – will act as the connection point to the grid for the massive Clyde wind farm project approved by the Scottish Government yesterday.

The two-year project was a core part of a wider programme to increase electricity export capacity from 2,200 megawatts to 2,800MW by 2010. ScottishPower said that with dozens of wind farms in the pipeline, increased access to the national grid and suitable capacity to export the power generated were crucial.

Alan Bryce, the director of energy networks at ScottishPower, said: "This is a significant milestone in the project to increase the capacity of the Scotland- England interconnector. The new substations will facilitate the transmission of a significant amount of renewable energy being produced in Scotland throughout the rest of the UK."

John Swinney, the Cabinet secretary for finance and sustainable growth, said developing the grid infrastructure would help to "realise the full potential" of renewable energy sources.

Europe 'has just ten years to prove sea power can work'

EUROPE has only ten years to get it right on wave and tidal power, a leading scientist warned yesterday.

Cameron Johnstone, director of Strathclyde University's Institute of Energy Systems Research Unit, said:

"The British and Scottish governments have nailed their colours to the mast with admirably ambitious targets for renewable energy.

"But these targets will be unworkable without ocean energy – an industry still in its infancy.

"In many ways the development of ocean energy is following a similar path to oil and wind, except marine is starting with a 20-year time lag and with governments which want marine technology to be commercially viable within ten years."

Mr Johnstone added: "The challenge for all involved is to speed up the development of ocean energy so 20 years is reduced to just ten.

"With rising oil prices and rising energy demand and the threat of global warming, there's virtually no time left now for us to get this wrong."

Coastal developments 'could create 30,000 jobs'

THE race to harness Britain's coastal wind energy could lead to the creation of 30,000 jobs, the government said yesterday.

And Malcolm Wicks, the energy minister, said he believed expansion in offshore wind power could cause a surge in employment and attract £3 billion of investment to north-east England alone.

On a visit to the area to unveil the New and Renewable Energy Centre in Blyth, Northumberland, Mr Wicks said the region's manufacturing expertise could be utilised in green energy.

He added: "Offshore wind will play a significant role in helping us meet our targets for a massive increase in the amount of energy generated from renewables.

"With our plans to increase the financial support for offshore wind, it is further evidence of our commitment to make the UK one of the most attractive places to invest in green energy."

Mr Wicks said the Californian energy giant Clipper Wind planned to develop the world's largest wind turbine – almost ten times taller than the Angel of the North – at the centre.

WIND FARMS IN SCOTLAND





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1

Rufus T. Firefly,

22/07/2008 00:08:33
All very laudable, but we still need nuclear power for the base load.
2

PotomacHighlander,

USA 22/07/2008 00:08:53
It's good to see Scotland headed in the right direction. It's a pity England couldn't do the same, what with all that hot air down there.
3

Rufus T. Firefly,

22/07/2008 00:15:18
#3 If they taxed Salmond's hot air then they could solve the budget deficit.
4

Tris,

22/07/2008 00:19:38

We have the wind and the waves. We don't need anything more with 10,000 years of danger attached to it.

No more nuclear in Scotland!
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 00:23:32

And the 'Fans' on our "turbines", 'go round and round',..
..'round and round',.'all day long',,
'And we got the biggest off them all',..'The biggest off them all' to keep, 'ALEX Salmond', tall, tall, tall,..
'All Day Long'!
6

,

22/07/2008 01:58:23
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7

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

cumnock 22/07/2008 03:07:54
Never seen the point of wind turbines. Hugely expensive and damaging to the natural environment. ( migrating birds etc ) Horrendous blot on the landscape. Obviously helping companies to trouser lots of loot while feeling really green and eco friendly. Has no effect at all on the requirement for coal, gas and nuclear power plants because windmills can't store energy - when the wind stops we need a full back up supply from the rest of the system. The amount of greenhouse gases reduced is overtaken in a few months by the increase in pollution from India, China etc.
Hopefully we will see sense quickly and scrap any future windmill farms and open up some pits and get the nuclear power stations planned and built.
8

Bishop Boyne,

Loanhead 22/07/2008 04:08:00
Nuclear is CLEAN!!

Interesting concept, what about the construction of the plants, steel, concrete etc., transportation of large numbers of men to the site, then there's the fuel ( falls of the trees if you believe the politicians) then there the waste, -perfect for putting between two slices of bread if you believe the puppets in BNF.

And of course radio activity (thats cleaner than persil), come on we are not suggesting that in any way locations of nuclear plants contribute to high level of birth defects, cancers etc., in the local populations.

And who is going to defend these clean energy plants from the likely terrorist who see them as legitimate and easy target!!!! I don't imagine that many windmills will be targetted.
9

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 22/07/2008 04:16:47
These pesky nats are up to it again - deliberately doing stuff.

Someone on another baord, elsewhere, suggested that the next step was another selfish camapaign from the nats:-

"It's Scotland's Wind"
10

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 22/07/2008 04:19:37
Is it true, as suggested by AM2, that if Scotland becomes independent that the wind will stop blowing?

Perhaps an Independent Scottish government could employ AM2 to power the turbines with his vast reserves of hot air?. Just an idea.
11

John Blackley,

Florida 22/07/2008 04:25:11
Typical Scottish puffery: "Now we've got the biggest in Europe" "We" don't have jack sch!t. "We" have a politician's promise - and a politician who's been dubbed "the saint of renewable energy" at that.

A scriptwriter wouldn't make a living writing this rubbish.
12

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

cumnock 22/07/2008 04:33:09
Bishop Boyne
Heck man no one says Nuclear is clean.
But Scotland is Baltic in the winter so how do we keep our elderly and vulnerable warm ? Wind turbines ? ( don't call them windmills please ) Forget it. Aint gonna happen EVER. Gas ? No chance. Gazprom in Russian owns the gas and they hate us so forget it. Coal ? possibly. But Maggie closed the mines and they flooded so it will take time and investment. So what's left ? Nuclear I'm afraid. Most of our best engineers have gone and we sold all the skills and knowhow on the cheap but hopefully we can get something going asap. Otherwise get the woodburner stove asap.
As for terrorism blowing up the Nuclear plants. That's weird I'm sure Gordon Brown said that we were in Afghanistan killing terrorists so that they weren't over here killing us.
13

An Beal Bacht,

22/07/2008 05:38:32
I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still neanderthals who hype nuclear? Personally, I'd be happy if Scotland was able to generate enough electricity to meet it's own needs from clean, renewable, energy. Forget the EU grid Alex - let's generate enough for ourselves - or is that selfish?
14

eric,

Lothian 22/07/2008 06:17:05
Its Scotlands Wind!
15

carrottop,

Dumfries 22/07/2008 06:57:01
Not a mention of what happens when the wind drops as people clamber to be politicaly correct slating nuclear, coal etc and patting each other on the back as they think they lead us on the path to greatness. The people who build these 'farms' are so stupid they cant even paint them a colour to blend into the background! Any colour you want as long as its dirty white.
Blind as well as unthinking, these 'farms' are a blight on the landscape and not even the Danes are keen on them anymore. We have an enormous coastline and wave power is the way to go without ruining one of the few assets we have left which is the beauty of our countryside, one of the biggest problems we have in Scotland is we are knee deep in people who can bypass their brains and still speak.
16

richardkiwi,

gala 22/07/2008 07:28:25
Well done alex, should generate enough elec to keep the ex-pat polish warm.
17

Beergoggles,

22/07/2008 07:30:04
#2 Any opportunity to have a go at the English, hey? Oh but of course, we are the scum of the earth.
18

Boy Wonder,

22/07/2008 07:33:31
I completely disagree with the SNP on this as the way forward. They are a blight on the landscape and will produce NOTHING like what will be needed to power not only Scotland, but the whole UK as well.

Undersea turbines is the best method, the ONLY real option. Why has it not been considered?

Pass me the semtex!
19

Saoghal Beag,

22/07/2008 08:21:32
7 castaway and not only is nuclear unresponsive and unable to meet load fluctuations, but the two nuclear plants are actually very unreliable with their frequent down time. They only dream of achieving the percentage output of their capacity that most wind turbines do.
20

Bob M,

Paisley 22/07/2008 08:45:46
#21 Tidal power is under consideration, see the link:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7017325.stm

The practicalities of the system make it less straightforward to implement than a wind generation method though.

We have to test as many renewable options as possible. I agree the wind turbines are an eyesore but when a more suitable method of renewable energy generation is adopted they will be taken down and the landscape will revert to type.

I had big hopes for nuclear fusion but it looks like a practical solution there is still 30 to 40 years away.
21

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 22/07/2008 08:49:57
Dr Richard Dixon, of WWF Scotland, said: "Given the urgent need to tackle climate change,"

He could have said " given the urgent need to tackle flowing water", or:

"given the urgent need to tackle blowing wind"

The green lobby has dropped the phrase 'global warming' since it cannot sustain the claim in the face of the facts. Now we have 'cimate change' - a completely meaningless tautology, like@ wet water, hot fire, cold ice.

Climate has always been changing; climate IS change - that it its very nature. All the evidence at present is that global temperature has not altered since 1998 and the Northern hemisphere has just had the coldest winter in 50 years. This June and July were pretty wet, cold and windy in most of Scotland and the UK.

It's amazing to see an entire society in the grip of mass-psychosis - spending £billions on fighting a 'problem' that is literally not there. Next time you see all those windmills, remind yourself whose electricity bill is paying for them by stealth tax: yours!
22

observer9,

Glasgow 22/07/2008 09:03:21
Are there any figures available for the existing wind farms that show if they have delivered the power output they promised.?

And we do need nuclear power. Energy supply is a weapon, a commodity so valuable that countries in eastern europe have been held ransom to it.

It is an unfortunate reality but if we close our eyes to the fact that the benefits and output performances of the new energy technologies are insufficient for our needs then we put ourselves in a weakened position, a position whereby if we have to rely on others our power will be collossally expensive, eclipsing the current costs and our reliance upon others will only benefit them.
23

AJ Fife,

22/07/2008 09:06:02
#26,

Mr Salmond's govt is regulating the whole process! Surely that's what he is meant to do?

Scotland is extremely lucky to have a leader with the vision of Mr Salmond. I think most Onionists even believe that.
24

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 09:15:13
Now we just need Salmons big mouth in front of them on a regular basis.
25

The Strategist,

22/07/2008 09:41:23
And not one of these 150 wind turbines is being manufactured here so Scotland will get nothing out of this in terms of added value.

26

subrosa,

22/07/2008 09:47:41
# 30

Why is that? Don't we have the manufacturing ability? Wouldn't surprise me the way engineering et al has been allowed to go to rack and ruin.
27

Harris Fisher,

22/07/2008 10:07:08
How has engineering been allowed to go to rack and ruin? previous governments should say sorry for not propping up companies that aren't competitive on an international stage? Only the best shall survive, a good approach in a country full of lazy F**kers
28

,

22/07/2008 10:34:24
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29

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 10:37:31
Scotland, leading the way on renewables in Europe. The Nuclear dinosaurs need to understand that Nuclear will eventually be phased out.
30

John S,

22/07/2008 10:48:12
New plan to get power from turbines even when the wind does not blow.
Planning application made for Britain's first commerical hydrogen balancing plant, which is to be built in North Ayrshire
A planning application has been lodged for the UK's first commercial hydrogen balancing plant - the latest innovation in renewable energy, described as “a potential holy grail” when combined with wind energy.
The proposed £20million plant, near Kilbirnie in North Ayrshire, is seen as a radical solution to the intrinsic problem of wind farms - that they are intermittent, producing electricity only when the wind is blowing.
The plant will take excess electricity produced by a wind farm during times of low demand and use the power to separate the hydrogen out of water. The hydrogen is then stored in fuel cells. When wind speed drops, the hydrogen can be converted back into electricity and fed into the National Grid, thus allowing constant 24-hour energy supply.
From The Times - July 14, 2008
http://tinyurl.com/62bmct
31

Gairdener,

Dalmellington 22/07/2008 10:49:19
30 or 40 miles miles away and you can still see the turbines.
Kill the view.
Kill tourism.
32

,

22/07/2008 10:53:51
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33

Hiatus,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 11:04:46
If Alex Salmond is classed as a "saint", I would hate to think what cation he could take to be claseed as a "sinner"
He advocates a method of power generation that is inefficient, expensive, unreliable and degrading to the enviroment.
Brilliant PR though. Organise a love in of all those who are dependent on this nonsense for their livelihoods then announce the "biggest2 and "best" and that Scotland will be a renewable nirvana by 2050 and it was a surprise that he was not lifted shoulder high and proclaimed "saviour of the planet".
Be very aware of this man's ego which shall be on show near the M74 for all to see soon.
34

Alan B,

22/07/2008 11:12:28
#38

Firstly i think it is pylons that are the real eyesore.

Secondly this windfarm and the one at eaglesham are not tourist destinations. It makes sense not to have wind farms in tourist desitnation although have not found them to be an eyesore anyway.
35

The Strategist,

22/07/2008 11:26:58
#31

We have the engineering design capability but not the capacity because we don't have support from our glorious financial services sector.

What seems to be happening is that banks etc will support projects such as the building of a new wind farm because income is guaranteed but they won't take the risk on new technologies. But then that's been the story for decades now.
36

,

22/07/2008 11:27:41
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37

,

22/07/2008 11:33:08
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38

,

22/07/2008 11:35:06
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39

,

22/07/2008 11:36:09
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40

subrosa,

22/07/2008 11:57:52
# 32

With the Thatcher decimation of industry back in the 70s/80s we lost a great many skilled workers who were forced to retrain in other skills. Hence a generation of such skilled workers were lost and are not there to train the next generation.

Just ask any private business. They can't get the quality of skills required and quite a few are sending employees to Germany etc to gain the necessary. All because ours was allowed to go to rack and ruin ...
41

subrosa,

22/07/2008 12:00:30
# 31

Thanks. Last I heard were many of our home grown engineers were off to Europe. Possibly for the reasons you state.
42

Highland Mighty©,

22/07/2008 12:03:24
40. Haven't you noticed that everything the SNP says is massively overladen with astonishing superlatives, almost to historic levels. Their magnificient press releases about earthquakes of devastating proportions and their unique and groundbreaking achievements are truly outstanding and induce panic of biblical proportions in all their insignificant, morally bankrupt and ideologically moribund opponents.

Have you noticed that?
43

,

22/07/2008 12:07:23
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44

Not gay,

Huntly 22/07/2008 12:12:43
I wish Alex Salmond or any other MSP could explain why we should want to destroy our beautiful countryside which is one of the majot attractions for the tourist industry.
Afterall, we do not really have many other industries left in Scotland so why destroy yet anthor one?
45

Macbeth 1616,

Fife 22/07/2008 12:34:03
I love the way that wind energy is dismissed as it isn't storable, so there is a big problem that when the wind drops the energy stops too. I haven't been shown yet how the coal fired power stations store the electricity they have generated.

We need a variety of sources, and to dismiss one, because we can see a potential downside highlights our negative mentality.

I am also amused at the concerns about the "blot on the landscape" concerns. Building wind-turbines either side of the M74 that is otherwise unvisited wilderness causes issue to no one. Building them on Iona would be different but there are plenty of places like Eaglesham Moor that are otherwise 'dead' land that nobody would notice if they didn't exist.
46

Anglofile,

22/07/2008 12:37:47
Biggest wind farm, and Salmond planted right in the middle. Oh how the "Wind" will continue to blow.
47

Tourist Guide,

22/07/2008 12:48:11
#51

Funnily enough, neither have I. Is Highland Mighty reading a different Hootsmon press from the rest of us?

#52 (strange moniker, but feel free to come out of the closet!)
I travel a lot round the country - where exactly are these existing or proposed wind turbines that are threatening to destroy our tourism industry?
48

Scottie,

South Africa 22/07/2008 12:48:50
:) Lot of hot air blowing about in Scotland then?
49

Galaman,

Galashiels 22/07/2008 12:55:06
So this giant folly (sorry, windfarm) will power 320,000 homes? Aye, maybe when the wind is blowing (and not too strongly), but what about when it's not?
Candles at the ready, everyone.
50

Macbeth 1616,

Fife 22/07/2008 13:09:30
#57

So you must be happy at the constant wasting of energy from constantly burning fuel even when it isn't required ?

We need more than one source of energy. If wind reduces the amount of coal burned by 10% then that is a great step in the right direction.

When the wind blows we will be able to use. When the wind doesn't blow we will use coal/nuclear. To just dismiss an option because it may not be able to be in use 100% of the time is madness.

We could use the wind power to drive Ben Cruachan hydro station? But again there is a power station that cannot work all the time so should it be scrapped ?
51

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 22/07/2008 13:12:17
I don't understand people who don't like the sight of wind turbines - the world's in a real mess right now and getting worse, but seeing wind turbines makes me think someone is actually trying to do something about it, it cheers me right up.
52

The Strategist,

22/07/2008 13:22:11
#58

You said that if we want Scotland to grow and prosper we will need a seed change in the attitudes of the banks. I agree but first of all we need politicians that will speak up and tell the bankers to get their act together.
53

Edward,

22/07/2008 13:24:54
All the usual anti snp suspects

AT least the Scottish Government are making things happen, which is for the benifit of Scotland
What we get from Gordon Brown is talk of Nuclear Energy, but then again his brother Andrew is pr director for EDF Energy, who are pushing Nuclear Power!
54

Coutts,

Ayrshire 22/07/2008 13:29:09
Keir. No. 62. This is the problem people see these great big towers and think they are green. So you have fallen for the con.

This is a disaster for Scotland and will make not an ounce of difference to climate change.

55

Geomac 1,

Scotland 22/07/2008 13:32:47
#10 Bishop says:
"And who is going to defend these clean energy plants from the likely terrorist who see them as legitimate and easy target!!!! I don't imagine that many windmills will be targetted."
Windmills don't need to be targetted - they either self destruct (gearbox failure, go on fire etc) and don't work for 66% of the time - why bother to target such rubbish?
I wonder if Saint Alex will be around to explain to us why our lights are going out, heating going off etc etc. Sure as eggs is eggs this is what is going to happen with this idiotic and ill thought out "energy policy"!!
56

Coutts,

Ayrshire 22/07/2008 13:33:37
Onshore wind turbines will NOT benefit Scotland. Only a few will win financially....but for the rest of us the cost will be terminal in so many ways.

Alex don't sell us out.
57

Geomac 1,

Kinross 22/07/2008 13:34:59
#62 Keir
You say "don't understand people who don't like the sight of wind turbines - the world's in a real mess right now and getting worse, but seeing wind turbines makes me think someone is actually trying to do something about it, it cheers me right up."
If it was only the sight of the windmills, then there would be less of a problem with acceptance - it's the FACT that they are unreliable and don't produce electricity always when needed. Where do we get our power from then?
58

Geomac 1,

Scotland 22/07/2008 13:37:53
At long last the Scotsman editor in his editorial has provided a more balanced view of the issues around renewables. I have been heartily sickened by the articles which quote verbatim nonsense from politicians and wind lobby groups - without a degree of balance - well done Mr Gilson
59

Macbeth 1616,

Fife 22/07/2008 13:52:40
#68

No one is suggesting that wind will produce 100% of our energy needs, 100% of the time.

We have to a have a basket of sources. Anything that removes dependence on fossil fuels has to be a step in the right direction.

The reliability of the turbines will improve. The amount of money (correctly) pumped in to getting nuclear power working over the last 60 years swamps the amount being invested in renewables.

I would like to see wind, and tide sources being used. I accept they won't be available 100% of the time. At some point in the future fossil fuels will run out, or coal will have a price hike like the oil one. At that point the current "poor" return from windfarms will seem wonderfully productive. Renewables and nuclear look to have a future, and their use has to be the answer to no more fuel left in the ground.

60

Ellie,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:34:58
for goodness sake we live on an Island - wave power!!!!
61

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 22/07/2008 15:11:05
Scotland's wind !! How lovely. What happens when it blows from the South? Wrong sort of wind. Let's tax it. Can't have England taking over our wind can we !!
62

BuryBob,

Bury, Lancs 22/07/2008 15:46:25
Interesting debate. We have a load of wind turbines perched on the hills of Bury, Lancs, and personally I think they add to the scenery. They've become a bit of a local attraction in their own right!
63

AntiPCman,

22/07/2008 16:07:30
Wind turbines have a utilisation %age of 30% - wind industry's own figures - which means that we need to have a minimum of 85% conventional energy generation in hand to underpin it. This is a nonsense. The Royal Society of Engineers have reported back to the Governments on their Government funded research that land-based wind power is not the way forward.

Off shore wind has an utilisation %age of 50%. Tidal power has 60%. Hydro is higher still but there are environemental considerations with hydro as there are with land based wind generation.

Wind power is far more expensive without subsidy which will come off in the long term as it is unaffordable. Denmark with the greatest %age of wind generation in Europe has a cost of electicity to their citizens of electricity at 2.25 times that of Norway's hydro schemes. What are we doing?

We need to have a spread of clean energy generation including wind on and off shore, nuclear and particularly tidal power and let us not forget cleaner coal fired power stations - plenty of coal in Scotland!

As someone who determines planning applications for wind turbines, I do not have much problem with the aesthetics but I do about efficiencies and future costs in monies and carbon release from the installation of these turbines on the hills.
64

The Scotchman,

22/07/2008 16:40:58
# 12 "employ AM2 to power the turbines with his vast reserves of hot air"

I always thought 2BAMs generates billions of tonnes of methane like the cows.
65

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:21:48
If everything in the garden is so rosy how come CO2 emissions from Scotland from electricity generation is running at 40% higher than 2 years ago?
And haven't read all the above comments but has anyone pointed out the continual obfuscation between consumption and generation that this goverment insists on? Press releases (and the press drink it all in like the mugs they are)constantly refer to consumption but production is 30% higher because of losses and exports. Is none of the windpower production going to have losses on the way to being consumed? Must be great technology.
66

Mikie,

22/07/2008 20:15:51
If you could bottle all Salmond's hot air you could heat Edinburgh for five winters.
67

TheFife,

Beverly Hills 22/07/2008 20:16:16
But wait a minute.

The atmosphere is made up of about 0.03% carbon dioxide.

That means that we are still using carbon to produce our "clean" energy. When are we going to get a handle on this run-away carbon footprint problem?

:-)
68

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 22/07/2008 20:42:06
How wise I was to install double glazing instead of gas central heating. Have an all electric flat. Climate change doesn't scare me - my winter energy costs are lower now.

Wind power is a fascinating subject but I think we have jumped straight into its Victorian era equivalent.

Wind tunnels - not overground turbines. Wind tunnels with a gear and brake mechanism please. Is that not what we already pay engineers to devise for car and plane manufacture development?

69

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 22/07/2008 20:48:54
# 61 Macbeth

Steady on! You have me wondering just how we might drive Cruachan hydro driven turbines with wind power? I know Scottish engineering is good, but I don't think it would be possible to blow enough air through a tunnel or couple up a shaft to do the job. However you are quite correct that it will not operate all the time. Wind turbines are just the same! The only difference being that Cruachan can provide almost instantaneous generation at crucial periods of instant demand, such as the end of major football matches when everyone puts the kettle on! No wind-turbine invented could do that! It will be very useful in coming on stream when the environmentally un-friendly wind-farms being erected around Loch Awe close down as the wind falls / increases beyond power generation levels and the conventional power stations build up a head of steam to take over. Please leave Cruachan alone, it is doing an excellent job, that is why the Spanish bought it!
70

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 22/07/2008 22:08:02
80. dido-bendigo. Ever tried walking around with your eyes open? Ever seen the clouds being blown one way when the wheelie bin is being blown around from another direction?

The tunnel channels the wind, dummy, and amplifies the effect. Architechture and natural landscapes channel the effects of wind at different altitudes. Overground wind tunnels exist in just about every housing or building environment in the UK. Think, man, think. You could f a r t into a wind tunnel and turn an underground turbine.
71

punklin,

glasgow 23/07/2008 05:27:21
I think wind turbines look lovely but pylons are ugly.

Not just 'cos the former remind me of watching the Teletubbies with my 2-year old, but more because I know they are greener.

Why do people find it so hard to praise what the Scottish government is trying to do? Of course it's not perfect but it's a start and at least it's in the right direction.

Nuclear cannot work (unless massively subsidised when ALL costs, especially knock-on effects and decommissioning are taken into account.) It's so self-defeating to engage the commercial sector, who with the best will in the world cannot make nuclear pay without huge hidden public money, and then have to hide the true costs of nuclear as it unravels - inevitably.

Agree that much more needed on marine power of all sorts but Scottish govt trying a direction of travel more likely to get us there than the U.K. govt's blinkered approach.

And of course we have to look at radical options like using much less energy at all levels: commercial, public and individual.

But so far, I'm surprised to say that I applaud Alex Salmond's attempts. Of course there's an element of grandstanding, but why not when he's standing up for something different? I am proud to be part of Scotland, not so U.K. (Born in England, have lived in Scotland most of my life - so, if youse'll continue to have me!)
72

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 23/07/2008 09:25:35
Salmond's statement on the dreadful prospect in parts of our beautiful nation being scarred by the grotesque sight off these dreadful objects springing up all over our land, simply abhors me.
What right has he, or any other politician have,to make such a decision without any consultation with the people of our country? He may have been discussing it with certain easy financial seekers having a vested interest in these dreadful monstrosities but, how does he have such political power that allows him such liberty?
As life for most ordinary people gradually improves globally, and are able to afford travelling, many desire the opportunity to visit our natural,beautiful scenery here in Scotland, which in the long run, can only be good for its future economy. Many financially sound - who do visit and have visited - decide to take up residence here permanently and enjoy the bright future that lies ahead for our Scottish Nation.
We have here in our country what is emerging more year by year, the most valuable available commodity sought after by nations globally, including England; WATER!
Certain countries in the future may decide to even go to war over it.
Our nation, has a rosy future lying ahead off it; and all the doom and gloom merchants who forecast inevitable disaster should our Nation makes the decision to become rightfully independent; are talking through a hole in their head.
Our nation can stand shoulder to shoulder with any nation economically and can become equal partners in the global sense. Mmany smaller nations than ours are flourishing quite well,even now,despite the present turmoil caused by the rising cost off oil.
73

Courtney,

East Molesey 23/07/2008 14:48:22
Another victory for the sheep mentality: common sense has failed again. The only winners will be the builders and the energy companies and the loosers - the public once again.
74

Drummer1,

Troon 22/08/2008 10:16:26
Wind Power is the new improved version of Scotland's north sea oil (i.e. clean and everlasting). There is no doubt once the supergrid happens trade with Europe will enable Scotland to emerge as one of the strongest and fastest growing economies.

Just don't tell the English, as they may wish to hold onto us a bit longer once the north sea oil & gas has finally run out.

Go yerself Alex Salmond, a true leader of the Scottish people ... a modern Braveheart!

 

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