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Cash crisis threat to police recruits



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Published Date: 12 August 2008
By Michael Howie
Home affairs correspondent
SCOTLAND'S biggest police authority is considering a freeze on recruiting new officers after being hit with a £25 million pensions bombshell.
Police boards face having to fund higher lump-sum payments for retiring officers – a revelation that threatens to blow apart the Scottish Government's pledge to put an extra 1,000 officers on the street.

The Strathclyde police board has admitted i
t may have to abandon plans to hire hundreds of officers later this year if it is forced to meet the extra costs.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has announced extra payments for retiring officers that will, by 2011, cost an estimated £50 million in Scotland, and £25 million in Strathclyde. Police pay and conditions are decided at Westminster, so the Scottish Government has little choice but to approve the changes.

Last month Yvette Cooper, chief secretary to the Treasury, wrote to finance secretary John Swinney rejecting an appeal for an extra £48 million to meet the additional pensions cost.

The move means the bill could land at the door of police boards who are already having to find an extra £100 million in the next three years to pay for increased pensions costs due to a sharp rise in retiring officers.

Paul Rooney, convener of the Strathclyde board, told The Scotsman: "It is simply naïve to believe this kind of shortfall will not impact on front-line policing or recruitment. Strathclyde faces a deeply damaging and immediate threat to essential recruitment plans.

"Unless the Scottish Government accepts immediate responsibility for this shortfall, Strathclyde has no choice but to consider cash-saving options from budgets which have already been slashed.

"The last thing we want is a freeze on police recruitment. Unfortunately the impact of this financial crisis means it must be considered."

Strathclyde Police plans to recruit 942 officers this year, 300 being funded by the Scottish Government. Most will replace retiring police, but recruiting of about 500 of these is now at risk.

A Scottish Government spokesman said police pensions issues were "the subject of ongoing correspondence between the Scottish Government and the UK Government and were discussed at the 31 July meeting between ministers, Cosla (the local authorities' body), Acpos (the police chiefs' association) and the Police Conveners Forum".



The full article contains 379 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 August 2008 9:52 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

,

12/08/2008 00:01:04
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2

ThomasP,

12/08/2008 00:10:52
Quite interesting...

"A revelation that threatens to blow apart the Scottish Government's pledge to put an extra 1,000 officers on the street."

In otherwords the Scottish Government was on target for their police numbers in the first place despite this papers reports.

"The move means the bill could land at the door of police boards who are already having to find an extra £100 million in the next three years to pay for increased pensions costs due to a sharp rise in retiring officers."

There has been an increase in retiring officers despite other claims from posters and well this paper. Hence the loss of police numbers overall.

"Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has announced extra payments for retiring officers that will, by 2011, cost an estimated £50 million in Scotland, and £25 million in Strathclyde. Police pay and conditions are decided at Westminster, so the Scottish Government has little choice but to approve the changes."

I see. The Nationalist Government has became so popular that the London Government has decided to attempt to destroy the SNP promises.

What about England? Will England receive the extra money to cover the costs of their own policeman and woman?

Pfft...





3

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:11:17
Public sector pension costs will bankrupt Britain.

Public Sector workers get paid more than those in the private sector and still strike over the "newspaper letter" myth that they are underpaid.

They get an inflation proof pension and guaranteed early retirement at 60.

The police are worse with their early retirements.

SNP/Labour are tearing Scotland apart. What will follow is this generation (my generation) refusing to pay these baby boomers pensions.

They stabbed me in the back, axed my free education to fund their early retirements and pensions. So they can go and jump, I'm highly skilled and will move abroad. They won't get their hands on my taxes for decades.
4

ThomasP,

12/08/2008 00:15:40
#3

You are an idiot.

Quite alot of the developed countries have problems with their elderly population.

If you are from the younger generation you would be aware that the young generation are being told to save their own pensions because the time we retire pensions will not exist. (state pensions anyway)

Your education is actually more free under the SNP then the last Gov so get over it.
5

subrosa,

12/08/2008 00:17:56
# 3 " I'm highly skilled and will move abroad. They won't get their hands on my taxes for decades."

Bet you'll still claim your state pension though even if you're abroad all your working life.

I note you're not in the least grateful that your parents and their parents generation fought hard for you and your ilk to have further education. In my day it was only the rich who could afford university - the other 95% had to find a job as soon as they left school.
6

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:19:45
#1

Typical. But maybe you should read the story.

Quote from the article above (seeing as you clearly can't read):

"Police pay and conditions are decided at Westminster, so the Scottish Government has little choice but to approve the changes."


7

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 00:23:18
#2 ThomasP

This situation was entirely predictable. In fact, meetings about it between Strathclyde Joint Police Board and the Scottish Executive have been ongoing for some ten months.

Elsewhere, Paul Rooney was quoted as saying:

“Despite repeated attempts to get an assurance from the Scottish government that police boards will not be burdened with financial costs of the changes, we have received no such assurances.”

He’s clear that the Scottish government needs to take immediate responsibility.

You didn’t address the claim that budgets “have already been slashed”.

The number of police officers across Strathclyde fell by 214 between June 2007 and June 2008. A further 271 are due to retire in 2007/08. So if they only recruited around 442, that would be actually a net loss of something like 43 officers.

The SNP’s sums have never added up – not on independence, not on this.
8

,

12/08/2008 00:24:34
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9

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:25:01
#9

Specifics ?
10

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:25:07
6

I did read the article.

Police Forces are going to freeze recruitment. The SNP promised they could deliver 1,000 extra police officers.

The SNP lied. They have no idea how to deliver that promise.

The SNP didn't say it was negotiable, did they? They said it was top priority!

They can spend millions on sign changes, having Alex Salmond getting photographed eating a Scottish sausage, touring the country, flag-waving, parties for Islam.

But they will NEVER deliver THEIR promise on extra police. If costs of police go up, then it is the SNP's responsibilty to account and adjust policy for this.
11

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:25:31
Sorry, meant to ask AM2 for specifics. Have you any ?
12

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:28:11
#10

Your "islam" focus seems a little distasteful I think, to many of whatever focus.

Can you advise how many liebour/unionist manifesto commitments have been broken in the last 50 years ? Or even in the Fib Dem/Liebore government from 1999 - 2007 in holyrood ? No ? Quelle surpriese. Not.
13

Teofilio Cubillas,

12/08/2008 00:31:15
#3 "Public sector pension costs will bankrupt Britain"

I think you'll find that what is currently bankrupting Britain are the so-called "wealth creators" in the private sector that people like you keep banging on about; you know, Northern Rock and the rest of the spiv property and commodity specualtors. As for me, I pay £450 a month into my wholly contributory public sector pension - a damn sight more than the zero per month contributed by the striking INEOS(private sector)workers who held the country to ransom a couple of months ago.
14

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:31:36
#13

I know. Trust me. I just want to see if AM2 has the cahonees to actually provide a reasoned anwer in this thread. What do you think. Yes or no ?
15

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:32:41
12 Div

Your getting angry now. Time to log on as David Banks and start spamming.

You are right by the way. I agree with you that the SNP are as bad as Labour when it comes to failing to deliver promises or policy.

By the way, I gave Islam as much focus as Salmon'd famous Scottish sausage eating photo. Bot a waste of money. Or sign changes.

"The money's there, so let's waste it." SNP/Labour hybrid mantra.
16

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:35:27
15

Actually you don't know what you are talking about.

The reason Standar & poor governmental credit rating agency threatening to downgrade Britain to "sub-investment" status was due to our private sector pension bill. £700 billion deficit and rising.

Where are YOU getting your facts from?

£30,000 pension bill for every household in UK. And guess what? the 50% who are due the money in the public sector won't be paying a damned penny towards their own upkeep.

75% of your council tax goes on pensions. Same thing with direct taxation for police. Just goes out the door on early retirements.
17

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:35:39
#17

Classic retort from a desparate person afraid to address the facts.

(1) Your islamaphobia is indeed distasteful to many.

(2) You did not address the question put, namely

"Can you advise how many liebour/unionist manifesto commitments have been broken in the last 50 years ? Or even in the Fib Dem/Liebore government from 1999 - 2007 in holyrood ? No ? Quelle surpriese. Not."

The fact you ignore (2) simply shows you have no answer. Prove me wrong and post a substantive response to this, or troll off somewhere else.
18

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:36:36
19 private sector pension bill should be *public*.

Public sector pensions ARE bankrupting Britain. That is a fact.
19

,

12/08/2008 00:37:24
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20

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:37:40
#19. So kitch (says it all frankly)

"75% of your council tax goes on pensions. Same thing with direct taxation for police. Just goes out the door on early retirements"

Source ?

21

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:37:41
20

I don't need to disporve you. I agree with you. Labour and the SNP are both dismal when it comes to competant governance or delivering promises/policy.
22

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:38:32
24

Source is Telegraph. Yesterday's edition. Google it yourself.
23

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:40:08
No, 25, you dodge the question well. I did not ask if the SNP or liebore were "dismal when it comes to competant governance or delivering promises/policy."

I asked you

"Can you advise how many liebour/unionist manifesto commitments have been broken in the last 50 years ? Or even in the Fib Dem/Liebore government from 1999 - 2007 in holyrood ? No ? Quelle surpriese. Not"

Any answer ?
24

,

12/08/2008 00:40:11
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25

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:40:41
#26

Nothing found. Post the article here if it exists.
26

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:41:18
#32

Don't spam please. Leave it to the hootsman mods. Cheers.
27

Teofilio Cubillas,

12/08/2008 00:43:02
#7

This current issue was not entirely predictable and nor has it been discussed for ten months as it was only announced a couple of months ago by Jacqui Smith. There are two issues with police pensions - one the demographic blip caused by the huge increase in recruiting in the late seventies following the Edmond Davies report - this has been foreseen for many years now and is probably what you are referring to.

The new issue, made public only in May, and the one central to the new funding crisis is the increase in the amount of lump-sum payments that officers may commute on retirement. This was increased as officers (in line with the rest of the population) are living longer. It saves money in the long term (as officers take the one-off payment rather than risk dying before breaking even on the alternative higher pension)but in the short term it is more difficult to fund.
28

,

12/08/2008 00:43:29
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29

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:44:39
AM2

"The SNP’s sums have never added up – not on independence"

Promote sensible discussion. List your examples, open the debate to rebuttal. If you have the nerve.

If not, any other unionists care to do so ? And before doing so, remember all the broken manifesto commitments from you for the last 50 years.

Expect a deafening silence from AM2/unionists.
30

,

12/08/2008 00:45:15
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31

,

12/08/2008 00:46:08
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32

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:46:42
#55

Feeccck off spammer.

Come on mods, u can do better. Surely you are not allowing this because you have no counter argument ?
33

,

12/08/2008 00:46:52
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34

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 00:47:19
#56

It's off-topic, but you could start here:
http://www.cppr.ac.uk/media/media_86366_en.pdf
35

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:47:41
AM2

See #56

Any response ?
36

,

12/08/2008 00:47:41
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37

,

12/08/2008 00:48:23
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38

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 00:48:43
#58 Doonhamer

I'm not supporting Soup Kitchen. The Islam remarks, for example, are distasteful.
39

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:48:48
AM2

Link at your #62 not working. Post the text here if you have no problem sharing the debate/
40

,

12/08/2008 00:49:03
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41

,

12/08/2008 00:49:29
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42

,

12/08/2008 00:49:51
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43

,

12/08/2008 00:50:15
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44

,

12/08/2008 00:50:34
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45

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 12/08/2008 00:50:40
74

Why should that bother you lad? Most of what you post here is distasteful? Are you developing a conscience?
46

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 00:50:48
#75

Use top link on this page:
http://www.cppr.ac.uk/centres/cppr/analysisofthescottisheconomy/
47

,

12/08/2008 00:50:52
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48

walter,

12/08/2008 00:50:54
#8, 12
Btw, if the SNP are so useless accodring to you, how come less than a third of those eligible to vote last holyrood elections supported the unionists ?

But that was double what the nationalist got.

Or even in the Fib Dem/Liebore government from 1999 - 2007 in holyrood ? No ? Quelle surpriese. Not.

What are you saying? the Labour, Lib/Dem exclusive did not deliver all their manifesto promises so it is alright for the SNP not to deliver all of theirs.
That makes them no different from the last lot then, promises made to get the votes then once they have the vote the promises are broken.
49

,

12/08/2008 00:51:10
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50

,

12/08/2008 00:51:31
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51

,

12/08/2008 00:51:32
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52

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 00:51:42
74 AM2

How is it distasteful to say that Police numbers are more important than giving money to Islam?

That is a valid opinion. I can think the idea of god is stupid if I want to. Perfectly valid opinion.

Politically correct brain-dead zombies walk amongst us. £400,000 for Islam when we can't afford to replace retiring police officers? Laughable.

Who needs the money more? Allah/God or a victim of domestic abuse on this planet?

Wake up and stop the PC nonsense.
53

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:52:56
AM2

Thanks for link at #82, but that not working. Post it here for us all to see. You're not coming over all coy on us, are you ?
54

Col. Blimp­IV*,

12/08/2008 00:53:57
#Talula

You hit 3p/p/s there....It could be you...ooh!
55

,

12/08/2008 00:54:01
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56

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 00:54:07
#87

The debate isn't being "lost" by unionists. It's being drowned out.

That's not the same thing at all.
57

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 00:55:09
#90

The link is working.
58

,

12/08/2008 00:57:34
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59

,

12/08/2008 00:59:01
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60

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 00:59:08
#84

You need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Holyrood results as percentage of eligible voters:

No vote - 51%.

In additon. The SNP govt is elected for four years. It cannot be expected to deliver all in a year any more than any government ever has. All other UK govts have broken a multitude of promises over many years. That was my point.

It is hypocritical to say the SNP have not delivered all of their government programme in a fraction of their time elected to government. That's my point. Got it yet ?

Unionists - 32% (of which liebore got half, eg 16%)

SNP - 17%

Thus. Less than 1/3rd of the eligible voters supported the union. Fact. Sorry, but true.
61

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:01:04
AM2

The link does not appear to be working, but post the content here anyway if you have nothing to be concerned about in terms of the content. And in terms of your #93, join me in condemming such practices.
62

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:01:31
#99
63

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:01:54
#100 for independence, waiting on an answer from AM2
64

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/08/2008 01:05:19
#96

Delusional nonsense.

#98

The links are both working. The PDF file is too lengthy. Yes of course.

But this thread has descended into farce. Enough. Goodnight.
65

Col. Blimp­IV*,

12/08/2008 01:06:26
#97 What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Your figures assume that all who voted for the "British Alliance" Parties are Union Jack underpanted loonies.

Don't you think that is a bit harsh?
66

,

12/08/2008 01:07:16
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67

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:10:00
OK AM2. But the other posters know the link does not work, and are not fooled by a typical

"But this thread has descended into farce. Enough. Goodnight."

Shame. I would welcome real comment from you to enliven the debate and to enable a realistic exchange of views. But as you do not wish to engage readers can only surmise it is because you have some fear of posting the content. Big PDF ? Non existant more like.

Prove me wrong and post it and no doubt many will reply. Coose not to and expose yourself as a coward. Up to you.
68

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:13:59
#102

No.

Here's the electoral options.

Support independence - 17% (SNP)

No Vote - 51%

Vote for parties explicitly pro union - 32%, half of which were liebore.

I don't think they are loonies or that I was harsh - I respect their right to vote for the union - but they are nonetheless a minority in fact.
69

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:19:42
105

You are either pretty stupid or a bit of a dud when it comes to trolling.

How can there be two views opposing each other and no third option where the option carrying the most votes is in the minority as a point of "fact"?

What do you think about the 1,000 extra police officers?

As the SNP are adding about 8 more than are retiring a year, could be about a century before Scotland's "top priority is delivered, eh?

Do you think the SNP will EVER deliver on it?
70

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:20:26
Dividend

I notice how you avoid the question I asked you at 106.

Coward.
71

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:21:18
I'm still waiting...

(He's probably run away because the SNP are lising the argument on teh police debate.)
72

,

12/08/2008 01:25:35
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73

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:28:02
109

I see you are still avoiding the question.

What is your opinion on the SNP's ablility to deliver 1,000 extra police? And when do you think they will have delivered it by?
74

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:28:25
Tool @ #105

"the option carrying the most votes is in the minority as a point of "fact"?"

The unionists scored less than 1/3rd of support from those eligible to vote. Last time I looked, 1.3rd was not a majority.

How many parties in uk or scottish history have ever delivered on all their manifesto in a year ? How many promises broken by liebore uk wide post 1997 or in scotland with the fibdems 1999 - 07 ? Don't be shy now......
75

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:29:49
Oohhh. lets play you at your own game, so kitch.

No answer yet to #111 ?
76

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:30:16
Or hasn't AM" given you the answer yet, tool ?
77

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:32:13
Hey, S(t)oup(id) Bitchin

Still waiting. Off to bed soon. Pick up your answers this evening if u have any...
78

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:32:38
111

You are pretty stupid when it comes to working out a majority.

I notice you are still avoiding he question. I don't think you will ever answer, nor will the SNP.

The SNP are still acting like they are in opposition. A bit like Labour have for 10 years, Labour are still bleating on about Thatcher 15-20 years later. The SNP will be the same as Labour.
79

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:35:36
Let me put it another way dividend.

When, in your opinion, will it be okay for me to critice the SNP for failing to deliver 1,000 polive extra police officers?

It takes 1 year to train them up apparantly. The SNP are 18 months in, so... if they haven;t got 1,000 extra into the system in 18 months time then they have definately failed.

Do you think they will make it? I don't, nor does Scotland.
80

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:36:33
111.

A Majority is the party with the largest share of the vote.

Last holyrood:

SNP 17%

Liebore 16%

Other unionists - 16%

No vote - 51%


The SNP were the single biggest party with no party overall having a moajority. This gives them the same, if not bigger, democratic legitimacy as a uk liebore govt elected on less than the SNP's proportionate share of the electorate (16% of all uk voters went liebore last uk electionvs 17% SNP holyrood).

Next point tool ?

I might even stay up a bit later, you are so much fun.
81

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:39:43
#116

The answer to your question is, it will be fine at the end of their period in govt and when you acknowledge all the manifesto promises broken by liebore over 50 years in scottish local govt and 8 yrs 99 - 07 at holyrood, as opposed to 1 year of the SNP.

Keep going tool, you're only building votes for independence. Haven't had so much fun in ages...
82

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:40:55
117

I think you meant "A majority is the largest share of the vote."

Majority has nothing to do with a party. " 2. (in an election) the number of votes or seats by which the strongest party or candidate beats the combined opposition or the runner-up"

Note the use of the word combined. Honestly, you need a brain.


Why are you spamming this thread? Gonnae just answer the questions put to you on 1,000 extra police or get lost.
83

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:44:43
#119

What a cheek.

I am not spamming. The answer to your question on the police is clear at #118, viz they will deliver over the period they are elected for.

As for you, answer how many manifesto commitments busted by liebore 1999 - 07 holyrood, or over the 50 years of their scottish hegemony prior to this period. No ? Says it all.

Face it. I know it hurts. But - last holyrood, liebore got less votes than the SNP. And not even a third of the electorate supported the unionist parties.

Spin all you like, these are the facts.
84

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 01:46:56
120

Maybe you can explain yourself a bit better.

Why is the SNP waiting to deliver Scotland's top priority? You, like the SNP, seem to think delaying providing essential police is acceptable to the electorate. It is not.

The SNP will never deliver 1,000 extra police.
85

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 01:52:05
Soup.

You are fixated by the police issue.

The SNP govt are a year or so in to a period of govt with several years to run.

Liebore failed to deliver many manifesto commitments 1999 - 07 to date, and in the preceding 50 years on a uk basis.

There is more to politics in this country than the police issue. The SNP will deliver, I hope, in the course of this minority government, But if they cannot, will you decry them in the same way you decry all the broken liebore promises over many decades ?

See, this is where your argument fails and where people see you for the single issue tool that you are. 1 issue in 1 year criticism of the SNP; tens of dozens over 50 years of liebore. Give it up, peanutbrain....
86

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 02:00:29
122

The police was identified by Scotland as its "top priority". Salmond is on the record as saying it is his "top priority" because it is "Scotland's top priority".

I would expect any government, with the notable exceptions of the SNP or Labour, to deliver their top priority within 2 years of taking power.

The reason the SNP haven't reallocated funds, made arrangements, started the recruitment procedures is because they are not committed to delivering what they promised.

But they found £500,000 for new signs saying government not excecutive and new staionery IMMEDIATELY.

Funny that.
87

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 12/08/2008 02:07:26
#123, Soooping from the well of desperation

"I would expect any government, with the notable exceptions of the SNP or Labour, to deliver their top priority within 2 years of taking power."

They haven't been in power 2 years yet ya total daftie.

The unionists have less than 1/3rd support of all eligible voters.

No answer at all to any of the above. You are so dim, I nearly hesitated before putting this next bit in. But. You really are a totallydimunionistaapologistafannie. aren't you ?

Night now, see you later today if you are daft enough to reply. Chube.

How many promises busted by liebore 1999 - 07 holyrood, or over the 50 years of their scottish hegemony prior to this period. No answer. Ya utterly deluded total daftie.
88

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 02:35:00
124

Your squalid, snivelling, swivel-eyed approach to Scottish politics is typical of the SNP/Labour hybrid that is wrecking Scotland.

Bang on about some "top priority" and then get into power and say "monyana monyana" like some greasy businesman from the third world.

People are dying from drugs, living in fear and your only message to them is relax, the SNP will deliver at some point and if they don't, then so what, they are only as bad as Labour.

You sir, are typical of the Labour/SNP hybrid. Let me guess you used to vote Labour, but now it's the SNP.

I never voted for Labour. Most SNP numbskulls have. You don't think the rise in the SNP's popularity comes from the educated Lib-Dem/Tory voters, do you?
89

Guga II,

Rockall 12/08/2008 03:25:39
#3 Soup for Brains.

If you're going to move abroad, do it quickly. We'll all come and wave you off. Take AM Squared with you too.
90

Guga II,

Rockall 12/08/2008 03:28:29
As for the police, they should be made to work till they're 65, the same as the rest of the population. they can use the older, fatter and unfitter ones for office work, answering the phones, running the canteens, washing the cars etc. That would save the taxpayers a fortune.
91

calum,

12/08/2008 06:08:41
What the article doesn't say is that this has come about because women were paid a much higher pension than men and the pension entitlements have now been equalised.
Jackie Smith, who did not award the Police down south their annual pay award but delayed it for 2 months to save money, is getting her own back at Kenny MacAskill and the SNP who awarded the police in Scotland their annual pay award immediately. Quid pro quo.
92

Phil C,

12/08/2008 07:30:41
I see the Soup Dragon is clanging his vitriol again. What is it with unionists and the 1000 police officers- a policy which is being carried out slowly but surely? It shouldn't be top priority for a minority administration when restricted by Westminster, yet every day on here the rabid unionistas foam at the mouth as if we have some massive issue with police numbers.

In the case of Strathclyde the problem is again pensions and 'black holes'. Guess who is responsible? Look no further than the Labour government and the FSA.
93

MacGillicuddy,

12/08/2008 07:49:48
#129
I think it's just that soupie likes his " men " in uniform!
94

tommy M,

12/08/2008 07:50:13
Another evil attempt by westminster to thwart the success and strategies of our scottish government. I for one cannot wait until we are an independent nation, governing all of our own affairs and never have to put up with this malice and meddling to the detriment of the Scottish people again.
It's time.
95

mr angry,

ayrshire 12/08/2008 08:08:29
The whole point of the matter is that it is reserved to Westminster who approved the higher payments but as stated have refused to give the Scottish Government any additional funding to pay for it.
Just another labour ploy to try and damage the SNP, they do not even try to hide it nowadays.
They are witholding Scotland's pocket money to show us who is the boss and to reprimand us for voting SNP.
96

Linda,

Edinburgh 12/08/2008 09:23:15
The Lib Dems should return the £2.4 millions they received from this tax exile who was not on the electoral roll in UK, who has left many creditors and had a very dubious criminal record before he gave this money to Lib Dems.

Read The Times Online report of 27 October 2005
Mr Brown has a record of run-ins with police over complaints of cheque fraud. Courthouse documents give his status as "absconder/fugitive".
97

walter,

12/08/2008 09:41:36
Did Salmond not tell the Scottish police federation conference at the end of 2006 that there was £78 million for these new police.
Les Gray, chairman of the Strathclyde branch of the federation, questioned Salmond to ensure there was no misunderstanding, Les Gray said "I questioned him (Salmond) to clarify what he was saying. He said it wasn't an empty promise and if that was not enough, he could even look at bringing in more new officers.
The SNP have allocated £54 million for police recruiting in their budget.
I do not know what the police already had allocated but the £78m was promised for the 1000 more officers and if if they have only allocated £54m all in then there is £24m plus that has not been allocated.
Why do the SNP not use that instead of going cap in hand to Westminster.
98

Alan B,

12/08/2008 09:55:22
"Police pay and conditions are decided at Westminster, so the Scottish Government has little choice but to approve the changes"

What an absolutely ridiculous situation. The scottish parliament needs complete control of policing not just bits of it. We really need to clear up the mess that devolution has caused.

A power should either be with westminster or scottish parliament not this current situation were bits are here and there.

An underlying problem aswell is the failure of Brown to fully fund public sector pensions, unlike the private sector which he brought in rules to make sure they were fully funded. All he has done is defer pension costs to future governments with the tab to be picked up be us. It is completely irresponsible.

On the matter of police. I think we need to look at alternatives to retiring the police early. That would probably involve reassigning them to non front line duties.

An wider underlying problem is. When you work longer you tend to get more money. What we need to come to terms with is people should earn more in their prime working ages and then allow salaries to reduce as one winds down.
99

Scottish 'N British,

12/08/2008 10:05:16
Oh dear.

Another contentious issue for the SNP and, surprise, surprise, another attempt to stifle debate. I wonder if there's a connexion there?

Anyway, as this issue has been in dicussion for yonks, it has to go down as yet another example of the SNP picking fights with Westminster.

Clearly Swinney preferred not to budget for the increase. Then again, he didn't budget for his manifesto promises, did he?

100

Miss H,

12/08/2008 10:10:47
136 It's not contentious seeing that the blame can be laid firmly with Westminster.

It's a gift.
101

walter,

12/08/2008 10:14:40
#97
Unionists - 32% (of which liebore got half, eg 16%)

SNP - 17%

Thus. Less than 1/3rd of the eligible voters supported the union. Fact. Sorry, but true.

Thus, just over 1/6th of the eligible voters supported Independence. Fact. Sorry but true.

Wrong, neither your statement is fact or true nor mine.
You are typical of the nats, you try take the vote for individual parties and mix them with the vote for the unionist parties collectively to suit your own agenda.
The only true fact in the figures you are producing is that the unionist collectively received more votes that the nationalists and the nationalist received more votes that any of the unionist parties individually.
102

Miss H,

12/08/2008 10:15:07
123 You flatter yourself in imagining that you are intellectually superior to people who vote Labour or SNP. Your suggestion that police should be deployed before they have been trained demonstrates that you are actually a bit thick.
103

Balliol II,

Dunbar 12/08/2008 10:15:10
Coming back to public service pensions for a moment - I spent most of my employed life in employment where there was a pension fund administered by local government. The retirement age was 65 not 60 as some posters claim. I contributed 8% of my salary and my empoyers 6%. If the superannuation funds are now in deficit it suggests that contributions are too low and should be increased. Also the majority of my colleagues received lower pay than the private sector. This may have changed but it was the case.
104

Miss H,

12/08/2008 10:16:12
138 But the SNP still won. Please please please get over it.
105

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 10:18:52
139 Miss H

Not so.

The SNP government should be administratively good. The word "minister" is derived from administrator.

The SNP have had power long enough to have put costed and sounds plans in place for delivering the 1,000 extra police. But they haven't.

The SNP are no further forward with Scotland's "top priority" than they were 18 months ago. They are just flapping in the wind.

Miss H, when will 1,000 have been delivered by? Have the SNP told us?
106

Soup kitchen,

12/08/2008 10:22:31
Miss H

It must make even blind followers like yourself wonder... "what have they been doing for a year and a half?"

Getting their photos taken eating Scottish sausages. I think I saw Nicola Sturgeon riding a bycycle once outside the parliamanet. They think they are c list celebrities and their to endorse rubbish? The SNP want to n!p that in the bud and start doing the prioritised work.

Maybe start with the top priority.