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Celebrating Scots' victory



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Hamish McLeod (Letters, 7 May) describes Bannockburn as Scotland's "one solitary victory" over England.
May I respectfully remind him Scotland was never conquered in battle. This would suggest more than one victory. Or does Mr McLeod's myopia prevent him from seeing beyond his own prejudiced view of Scotland's history?

The song Flower of Scotland justly celebrates Scotland's struggle for freedom and independence, which King Edward was set to destroy. Is boasting of a nation's victory in defending its liberty to be deplored?

ROBERT M DUNN

Oxcars Court

Edinburgh





The full article contains 91 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 May 2008 8:42 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

jj veritas,

09/05/2008 07:12:56
Edward's true nature is celebrated on his gravestone - at his personal request.
2

rpb,

09/05/2008 07:15:02
The complete bilge that is Flower of Scotland should be deplored.
Any part of a country that has an anthem that celebrates a battle victory over another part of the country from 100s of years ago,is a sad,sad state of affairs.
Chips on both shoulders, xenophobia, irrational hatred of the English, etc etc.



3

Dollar Tim,

Dollar 09/05/2008 07:46:30
#2 Yeah you are absolutely right. Let's forget our history - or better still re-write it so that we never had to resist aggression from our southern neighbours. When English people quote Shakespeare on conflicts regarding their past differences with France it is patriotic - but Scots celebrating their history are xenophobic.
4

An Deasach,

Argyll 09/05/2008 08:28:06
#2 Who's got the chip on their shoulder ? Perhaps you should be looking a bit nearer to home.
5

Linda,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 09:40:54
Flower of Scotland is a modern version of Scots Wha Hae and both are songs of freedom and are not xenophobic like Britannia Rules the Waves.
6

Steve,

Bo'ness 09/05/2008 09:42:45
2.And in a mighty rush
rebellious Scots to crush
God save the Queen

Tell me, which country sings this anthem?
7

Steve,

Bo'ness 09/05/2008 09:45:04
Defending your homeland against insurmountable odds, after centuries of persecution.

To most people that is heroism and patriotism.
To a unionist, it's xenophobia!
8

Hugh V McLachlan,

Elderslie 09/05/2008 09:50:09
Steve,Bo'ness

'Tell me, which country sings this anthem?'

No country sings that particular verse. Anyone could make up additional, offensive verses to The Flower of Scotland. Would that detract from the original version?

(In any case, as has been pointed out many, many times, to say that rebellious Scots should be crushed is not to say that Scots as such should be crushed only the particular rebellious ones who were alluded to in the rogue verse. What is wrong with that?)
9

Boy Wonder,

09/05/2008 10:12:32
The Battle of Stirling Bridge
The Battle of Boroughmuir
The Battle of Culblean

... to name but a few Scots voctories over *superior* English forces.

They always were the stronger, better supplied side. But our ancestors still took the battle to the English ... mainly to stop the encroachement of English Overlordship!
10

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 10:25:12
Only 3 nations in history have successfully resisted English military domination?

France, to which a succession of English Kings made claim, and despite overwhelming odds, whose armies were eventually routed!

Scotland, which the English never defeated militarily in the same ruthless way as the little Principality of Wales, and the sparsely populated Island of Ireland!

The Thirteen English Colonies, whose ill-equipped Continental Army and Navy fought a relentless guerrilla war, before defeating the then greatest military machine in the world, the British Army, at Saratoga, and then humiliatingly at Yorktown, when "the world turned upside down"!

However, eventually, the English "catched" Scotland, firstly by dynastic intermarriage, and then political bribery.
11

EWB,

UK 09/05/2008 11:27:35
Mr Dunn's letter smacks of "Here's tae us" and so do some of the comments.

Was Bannockburn really a victory for Scotland over a stronger English force or was it not rather one Anglo-Norman leader living in one part of this island with troops from different countries defeating another Anglo-Norman leader with a similarly composed army living in another part of this island?

Did the lot of the ordinary Scot improve under Robert de Brus and would it have been any worse if Proud Edward had won?

Scotland might not have been conquered by Oliver Cromwell at the Battle of Dunbar, but it was surely clear by then that Cromwell had a force capable of conquering Scotland.

700 years on, there is no longer any place for these triumphalistic utterances.

I am left with the feeling that if the Scottish football team lost to every other national football side on earth but managed to beat England, it would still be cause for national rejoicing. Does a nation really need to measure its worth by comparing it with its nearest neighbour?

#5: It was a Scotsman who penned the words of "Rule Britannia" and another, I believe, who wrote "Ye Mariners of England". But then, when these songs were written, Scots were happy being part of the expanding British Empire and many did well out of it.

#10: one could argue that the American War of Independence was a Civil War. Your description of this war is a gross simplification, which fails to take into account the stretched supply lines of the British Army or the support offered the American colonists by the French.

Again, it was Anglo-Norman kings living in England who waged war on France, the land either of their birth or their ancestral homeland. To what extent was France a united country in those days?
12

G,

Bridgefoot 09/05/2008 13:03:07
"May I respectfully remind him Scotland was never conquered in battle"

Some special pleading is require dto justify this statement - is this because Scotland never united enough to be involved in any battle?

 

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