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STV is inappropriate for vote counting on a single outcome: independence



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A referendum in which voters put three options in order of preference is perfectly sensible, but STV is not the way to count it (your report, 27 March).
STV is a good system for choosing a set of three, four or more representatives, but not for a single choice. This is because it can lead to the elimination of an option that would command a majority in each possible two-way referendum.

For example
, consider the case where first preferences are: status quo 35 per cent, more powers 30 per cent, independence 35 per cent. Here STV leads to a run-off between the two extremes, despite the fact that the middle option is preferred to either alternative by 65 per cent to 35 per cent.

The best way to decide a multiple-choice referendum was pointed out more than 200 years ago, by the Marquis de Condorcet, a contemporary – and intellectual equal – of our own Adam Smith and David Hume.

He pointed out that such preference votes implicitly tell us the voters' preference in each possible two-way referendum. For example, if the number of voters that put A above B is greater than the number that put B above A, then we can deduce that A would beat B in a straight vote.

The winner is the option that commands a majority in each possible two-way referendum. When the options have a clear ordering, as in the present case, there should always be a clear winner.

If a three-way referendum is thought too complicated, the same comparisons can be achieved by a two-question referendum, just as we had in 1997.

Thus a new constitutional referendum could ask:

1, Should the parliament have more powers?

2, If it has more powers, should these be within the Union, or should Scotland be independent?

Either of these, equivalent, approaches would give an outcome that commands a majority when compared with each of the alternatives. This seems a pretty basic requirement if the outcome to be accepted by the public as legitimate.

(PROF) DENIS MOLLISON, Inveresk, Musselburgh, East Lothian

Commentators and some politicians claim it is only right that there should be a review of Holyrood's powers at this stage, after ten years of devolution. But it is only eight and two-thirds years since the Scottish parliament commenced.

Is it not more likely that the number ten fits in more suitably by reference to the number of months since the SNP assumed minority power? Is there anyone, even with only half an eye on the political scene, who believes there would have been a commission appointed on the lines proposed, had, say, first minister Jack McConnell led Labour to a 53 to 38 victory over the SNP? Considering the 2007 Labour manifesto proposed no changes to the devolution settlement, the answer must be "Not a snowball's ...".

D R MAYER, Thomson Crescent, Currie, Midlothian

On the subject of the so called Constitutional Commission, you say: "Sir Kenneth has to ensure the work of the commission is politically neutral, open and inclusive" (Leader, 26 March). It can never be politically neutral as it does not take into account the subject of independence. It can never be open as it will not allow anyone to discuss the option of independence, and thus on both these accounts it can never be inclusive, so it falls at all three hurdles, even before it has started.

ANDY ROSS, Tomonie, Fort William





The full article contains 588 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 March 2008 8:37 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Gdgy,

28/03/2008 08:10:36
STV is inappropriate for vote counting

Aye the BBC is much more trustworthy...especially considering the phone-in scandals at ITV.....
2

donald,

glasgow 28/03/2008 10:29:09
STV is inappropriate for vote counting on a single outcome: independence.

So is the BBC.
3

frank mcbride,

lusitania 28/03/2008 10:51:25
I tend to agree with Denis Mollison but, I think, perhaps, that this view would not be shared by the Unionist Alliance.

Any fundamental change to the Devolution settlement should be put to a Referendum.

Perhaps the Unionist Coalition's dismissal of a plebiscite is the fact that the "Commission/working party" has already come to the conclusion that NO CHANGE is required.
4

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 28/03/2008 11:55:13
The danger of amending the Scotland Act for the purpose of devolving more powers to the Scottish Parliament will, in all probability, produce only one inevitable outcome!

Best left well alone and accept the present settlement.
5

Linda,

Edinburgh 28/03/2008 12:38:26
Why has Scotsman ot published letters in favour of STV in referenda. Good letter on subject in Herals to-day,

"I am more than a little bemused by the criticism of the Scottish Government's proposal for a multi-option referendum on our nation's future.
Multi-option referendums on constitutional change have already been undertaken in a number of places. For example, Newfoundland, then a British colony, held a three-option referendum in 1948 to decide whether it should enter the Canadian Confederation, remain under British rule or regain independence. The eventual decision by Newfoundlanders was to enter the Canadian Confederation. Ironically, while originally it was deemed there should only be two options on the ballot paper, the British government intervened and overruled the convention (the body established to decide on Newfoundland's constitutional future), and decided that confederation with Canada should also be on the ballot paper.
In Singapore in 1962, a three-option referendum was held on the nature of its constitutional relationship with Malaya, and in other parts of the world - for example, in Switzerland - multi-option referendums are common.
The Scottish Government's proposal for such a vote to be taken by preferential voting is also in full accordance with the view of Northern Ireland's de Borda Institute, which advocates the conduct of referendums using the Modified Borda Count (MBC) form of preferential voting, referring to such a vote as a Borda "preferendum". The de Borda Institute argues that the MBC would produce results based on consensus and represents the fact that democracy is for everybody, and not just the majority.
The proposals by the Scottish Government for a multi-option referendum not only have a well-established precedent, but for this to be by preferential voting will ensure the actual outcome is a true reflection of the desires of the Scottish people.

Alex Orr,
Edinburgh.

6

A Scott,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 13:30:05
#4 MR Lachie Todd.......I bet you dont leave the hoose when its rainin in case you get wet..Ya big Feartie.
7

DAVID MCCANN,

28/03/2008 16:49:21
What concerns me is whether or not the Scottish people will actually GET the opportunity to actually vote in a referendum, and this is precisely what the all party/non party Scottish Independence Convention have set out to rectify, by organising a petition to the Scottish Parliament to hold a referendum on Independence which would allow the Scottish people to decide their own future.
The petition calls on "the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to conduct a referendum on whether Scotland should again become a sovereign independent state."
Whilst the Convention's support in such a Referendum is clearly for Independence, their Petition is not about Independence as such. It is about democracy, openness and inclusion.
In our view, the form of Scotland's government should be decided by all its people. We reject the attitude of the Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives and Scottish Liberal Democrats in refusing even to consider offering the Independence option to the point that the elected Government of Scotland has been specifically excluded from their discussions.
Our Petition offers to all Scots - including those who disagree with us on the Independence issue - the opportunity to choose.
Our petition is on line at http://www.scottishindepend
enceconvention.com We are also collecting paper signatures at various points throughout Scotland. So get out there and vote for a referendum- of whatever kind.

 

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