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Lib Dems call for 2p tax cut in Scotland



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Published Date: 15 September 2008
HOLYROOD should use its power to change the rate of income tax to give families a £330 rebate to help cope with soaring bills, the new leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats said yesterday.
Tavish Scott called for rival parties in the Scottish Parliament to back his proposal for an emergency 2p cut in the basic rate of income tax.

This would come on top of a promise from the UK Lib-Dems to trim the equivalent of 4p off income tax for
low and middle-income households through a mixture of cuts and changes to the thresholds at which tax is paid.

But Mr Scott's proposal caused a degree of confusion when Vince Cable, the Lib-Dem shadow chancellor, admitted he was unsure how it would operate as he had been in India and had not had a chance to check the fine print.

Mr Cable also warned that the 2p cut would have to be funded by Holyrood and not Westminster as he did not want English taxpayers to subsidise the Scots. Mr Cable said: "They would only be able to cut taxes in Scotland if they found cuts in public expenditure."

Mr Scott, in his first speech as Scottish leader to the party's national conference in Bournemouth, said the economy was in "meltdown" and "people are hurting now". He said: "We should use the Scottish Parliament's power to cut income tax by 2p in the pound, saving the average Scot more than £300 a year, putting money back in the pockets of people who need it most."

He later explained that around £800 million of savings from the Scottish Government's £30 billion would have to be found to pay for the tax cut. He vowed to protect money for schools and hospitals.

Target areas include "SNP quangos" such as the Futures Trust, which is the Nationalist alternative to PFI funding schemes, its skills quango and a £14 billion infrastructure investment plan. The remainder would come from Scotland's share of unexpected extra spending by the Westminster government in England, as allocated under the Barnett formula.

Mr Scott admitted that with only 16 Lib-Dem MSPs out of 129, he would be unable to drive through the change without the support of other parties.

His aim is to have the rebate become part of the Holyrood budget that the SNP will publish over the next few weeks and which will take effect from 1 April.

"This particular budget cannot be business as usual," he said. "It's got to be something different. If we can get enough MSPs, we can achieve things here. That is why I have made this challenge to the other parties."

The SNP accused Mr Scott of abandoning "sound housekeeping" for a soundbite which had all the hallmarks of an ill thought-out policy.

The Scottish Conservatives, who favour a £150 council tax cut, said the Lib-Dem proposals should be taken with a large pinch of salt.





The full article contains 501 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 September 2008 9:23 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Liberal Democrats
 
1

Boy Wonder,

15/09/2008 00:38:39
#1. Yes.
2

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 15/09/2008 06:52:31
I honestly think they believe nobody can see the unsubtle attempt to scupper the LIT initiative.
Lib Dums indeed.
3

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 15/09/2008 08:13:38
AS the poor don't pay income tax I don't see how paying less than nothing will help.
4

Senga Jean,

15/09/2008 09:40:12
Like Iain Gray young Tavish is light on Economics!
5

BIG EYE,

Paisley 15/09/2008 09:57:21
I am finding it hard to keep up with this Liberal economic giant!

He is against the freeze in Council Tax because it is universal and everybody gets it BUT

He is for a 2p cut in income tax which is not universal and automatically excludes the poor!

WHERE IS HE COMING FROM!
6

Alan B,

15/09/2008 10:15:31
Tavish statement is generally welcome. Scotland must move away from tax everything that moves and generate a more vibrant economy.

However there are some key issues:
1)if you want to target the poor like he says then you would be better increasing allowances. Problem is scottish parliament has no power to do so.
2)another way of targeting poor is to reintroduce the 10p tax band that brown abolished. Problem is scottish parliament has no power to do so.
3)labour have cynically lowered income tax while increasing taxing on income like national insurance. Would it not be better to lower employee NI (it is not really an insurance anymore). Or possibly just merge the 2 together, as part of the tax cut. Problem is scottish parliament has no power to do so.
4)would it not be better to lower corporation taxes as we can see how ireland benefited from that policy while scotland struggled. Problem is scottish parliament has no power to do so.
7

Alan B,

15/09/2008 10:16:44
In other point. Why does someone like Scott not come out with this policy before he was elected rather than after. It does seem like a cynical circumvention of democracy.
8

Miss H,

15/09/2008 11:30:20
The SNP is already proposing a tax cut with the LIT plan. Is this a manoeuvre by Tavish Scott in the negotiations around that?
9

notanactivist,

The Borders 15/09/2008 11:37:57
#4 I think you'll find the poor do pay income tax. Everyone stuck in low-paid jobs, i.e. the people really feeling the pinch right now, is paying income tax on their meagre earnings.

I never thought I'd say this but this is a good idea from the Lib Dems.
10

Tynietiger,

15/09/2008 11:58:06
So that will be 6p in the pound Tax Cut for Scotland as Clegg is trying to go further to the right than Cameron in England with a 4p cut in UK Income Tax.

Lib Dem fantasy economics from 4th party in Scotland.
11

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 15/09/2008 13:58:49
7 Alan B
I agree with you that Scotland needs to move away from a high tax high spend culture. The question is how to achieve this. Anybody can call for tax cuts but there has to be a realistic analysis of how the correponding cuts in expenditure can be achieved. Almost every opposition party says that they would cut bureauracy/quangos etc and not cut money for health and education. This is simple rhetoric in opposition but the reality of government is different. Anybody who is serious about tax cuts has to face the reality that this can only be done to a significant extent by looking at the 3 biggest areas of expenditure - health, education and social security. This obviously means hard choices but that is what government is allabout - not just simplistic, gesture statements which are the luxury of oppositions.
12

Ugly George,

edinburgh 15/09/2008 14:01:52
LIT is not a cut in tax - it is merely the replacement of one tax with another. Some would pay less but some would pay more but the overall tax burden is unchanged.
13

Alan B,

15/09/2008 14:19:19
#Ugly George

The overall tax burden would be changed as 3p rate would not cover the revenue currently raised by the council tax.
14

Alan B,

15/09/2008 14:23:22
#Ugly George

Government tend to cut taxes by not raising expenditure as fast rather than actually cutting expenditure. If you raise spending by less than the tax revenues generated by economic growth then you would have surplus's that can be used for tax cuts.
15

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 15/09/2008 14:38:49
15 Alan B
Agreed - but that is a long term trend which develops over years. If we are talking about a sudden tax cut there has to be an equivalent sudden cut in expenditure.

As far as post 14 is concerned , I thought that this was dependant on whether the £400 million in council tax relief would be maintained. As I understand it, the 3p rise assumes that it is. If not then then cuts will have to be made in the budget.
16

pehman,

sussex 15/09/2008 14:42:13

I heard clegg on the lunchtime news earlier calling for a 4p cut in tax.

So is tavish looking for 2p over and above the 4p or is he looking at 2p less than the rest of the uk ?
17

Alan B,

15/09/2008 14:48:34
#Ugly George

Personally I cannot see the snp going forward with LIT unless the council tax relief it forthcoming. The tories and lib dems both back making council tax relief available. McLeish the ex labour leader has said that while not supporting lit he believes that the council tax rebate money should be made available to scotland. Even Gray got himself in a mess over the issue when he declared that he would abolish council tax before rowing back.

Add to that Calman is now more likely to suggest some sort of fiscal federalism for scotland given Browns uturn last week. As such it become more and more likely that it will not be practical for westminster to withhold that money.

Even if it does as you suggest and "then cuts will have to be made in the budget" it will still be an overall tax cut.

But do think they would be silly to procede without the money.

18

Alan B,

15/09/2008 14:50:10
#pehman

It seemed that he wanted 2p over and above the 4p. But realistically there is no chance of the lib dems winning power at wesminter and implementing the 4p tax cut. As such the 2p tax cut is all that is realistic.
19

Alan B,

15/09/2008 18:20:18
#sm753

Your post is abit irrelevent to the posts i was having with #Ugly George as we were discussing tax cuts.

As for your post you miss the point.

Firstly why do the tories, lib dems and certain seniour labour members all believe that council tax rebate monies should come to the scottish parliament, if the sp decides to change the method of taxation used for council taxation?

Secondly think about what is actually happening here. Labour have created a devolution settlement where the scottish parliament have the right to change the method of local government taxation. However Brown is now trying to say that if the scottish parliament uses that power then scotland will stop getting money that is forthcoming at the moment. That is just stupid.

You either do not have devolution, and do not allow the scottish parliament to vary methods of local government taxation or you do. There should not be a punishment for using democratically devolved powers. It is just another example of the botch labour made of devolution. However rather than address their own mistakes they are playing silly and immature games.

The other related issue is. The Barnett formula is scotland method of funding. It means that scotlands funding is a percentage of english spending. However what we are seeing here is if scotland does not follow westmisnters policies it can have money withheld.

What happens if the tories abolish council tax and introduce a new poll tax. Remember rebates were forthcoming from rates, poll tax and council tax.

Labour should grow up.
20

Miss H,

15/09/2008 18:21:45
20 No it does not belong to the individuals who claim it.

For the umpteenth time council tax benefit is paid directly to councils by the DWP to compensate for those individuals whose incomes do not pass the threshhold at which they become liable to taxation.

People who are awareded council tax benefit never see a penny of it because it is paid to the council, not to the person.
21

Alan B,

15/09/2008 18:24:22
#sm753

"LIT proposal is so badly thought out it either proves they are stupid or was never meant as a serious proposal at all, just a way of picking a fight."

Can you even attempt to justify that? Putting into context that lib dems agree with the policy in principle but have differences by wanting it local set from the outset. Are the lib dems labours partners just wanting a fight too.

What about the tories and seniour member of labour like McLeish who says that council tax rebate monies should come to scotland?

Personally i do not agree with LIT but to say it is not thought out it silly.
22

Alan B,

15/09/2008 18:26:06
#sm753

Can you also address in any answer that labour had the council tax rebate as part of the block grant in its own documentation at the time of devolution?
23

Miss H,

15/09/2008 18:32:46
23 No he can't. The opponents of LIT have made a massive miscalculation because they have assumed that the SNP is not serious and is only trying to 'pick a fight' with Westminster. That view which is completely incorrect has skewed their entire perception. They have gambled that the SNP are bluffing but the SNP are not bluffing.

If the SNP get support to pass the LIT bill it will be implemented and the CTB will transfer to become the equivalent benefit for LIT. All the so-called massive hurdles in the way of the tax being implemented are in reality administrative details. When it comes down to it Westminster is not going to block the will of the Scottish Parliament because to do so would be completely unreasonable and in fact would be the final act of political suicide for Labour.
24

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 11:30:12
12

The whole misconception that tax cuts have to be paid for is just that a deliberate political misconception or more accurately a political deceit.
We pay more in taxation than is required for any services we require the reason our taxes are raised year on year is simply because they are grossly mismanaged due to incompetance and in many cases corruption.
If we had any say at all in what our taxes should be spent or concentrated on then we could easily afford to cut our tax burden by a large amount.
Billions is squandered by the NHS alone and billions more by local councils and all down to mismanagement not by the levels of funding.
Nobody anywhere can tell us exactly what the cost of local or national services will be over a comming year because nobody does the calculations.
Local councils ask for more money year on year so they dont have to work out the details all they do is spend every penny they are given and ask for more.
And all you get on these posts is morons going on about having to cut services to afford tax cuts when in reality we pay more in taxation every year and services are still cut.
25

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 11:34:54
26

Because nobody claims it that doesnt automatically mean its still not due to them. What the Scottish government is trying to do is claim the money that is due to them for them and the UK government is keeping it on the grounds that the individual isnt claiming it.
But it still belongs to them so why is the UK government not handing it over? it isnt theirs to keep.
26

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 11:37:35
26

How does the UK government work out how much council tax to charge relative to local expenditure?
surely the amount charged in local taxes should reflect the expenditure costs exactly no more no less?

 

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