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Party 'risks losing more than half its MPs'



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Published Date: 16 September 2008
THE Liberal Democrats are at risk of losing more than half their MPs unless their popularity improves, an elections expert warned yesterday.
Professor John Curtice, of Strathclyde University, said the party's number of MPs would be cut from 63 to 25 if its current level of support was repeated at a general election.

The warning came as former leader Sir Menzies Campbell said the party
should not "sell its birthright" and do a deal with Labour or the Tories in the event of a hung parliament, unless it received a guarantee that proportional representation would be introduced.

Prof Curtice told a fringe event at the Lib Dems' conference that the party faced a "sticky" election as a result of the resurgence of the Tories and the fact that 70 per cent of its MPs had a Tory challenger in second place.

He questioned whether it was a gamble for Nick Clegg to lead the Lib Dems from being the party most in favour of tax-and-spend to the party now least in favour of such policies.

Delegates yesterday approved Mr Clegg's call for further tax cuts on top of a 4p income tax cut first adopted last year. In Scotland, the party wants Holyrood to use its powers to trim a further 2p off income tax.

But Prof Curtice warned: "Simply changing policy on its own is never enough. You have to be able to sell it."

He said emphasising the Lib Dems as a tax-cutting party could make it harder to attract disgruntled Labour supporters.

At the moment, the Tories are about 20 points ahead of Labour in the polls, with the Lib Dems on about 17 per cent, down six points on the 2005 general election.

However, Prof Curtice said it was "not inconceivable" that the Tory lead could halve. "Given the way the electoral system is still biased against the Conservatives, you still can't rule out the possibility that there will be a hung parliament," he said

He said the chances of the Tories supporting a bill bringing in proportional representation for Westminster elections were "frankly something close to zero".

The dilemma the Lib Dems were more likely to face was whether they should prop up another party in government or decide to force another snap election to allow the electorate to think again.

Sir Menzies said: "I should find it very, very difficult indeed to support any arrangement with any other party in the Commons which didn't have as its primary condition the immediate presentation of a bill to create a system of proportional representation for elections to the Commons.

"We have not made so many sacrifices and done so much that we should sell our birthright for anything other than the major constitutional change, which is necessary to make this country a modern democracy."

Chris Huhne, the Lib Dems' home affairs spokesman, insisted his party's MPs were better than those of other parties at hanging on to their seats.

Tax cuts reflect 'austerity mood'

THE Liberal Democrats must become a "tax-cutting party" to reflect the "mood of austerity" in Britain, the party's finance spokesman said yesterday.

Vince Cable also attacked the "national obsession" with home ownership, saying houses were places to live and not "gambling chips".

He said the size of the state needed to be trimmed back, and called for public-sector workers earning £100,000 or more to be forced to reapply for their jobs. At the same time, the number of MPs should be cut and their pensions trimmed back.

Mr Cable said: "Government should do fewer things well rather than many things badly." He also gave strong backing for plans to introduce large cuts in tax. The new leadership hopes the cuts will distinguish the party from Labour and the Tory Party, which has only pledged so far to cut inheritance tax for millionaires.

Mr Clegg and his aides said the cut was necessary to reflect the economic downturn and the difficulties faced by millions of families in meeting household bills.

But he was opposed by a number of more left-wing MPs and delegates who argued that the tax cuts would do nothing for people most in need, such as pensioners and the unemployed.

Danny Alexander, Mr Clegg's chief of staff, told the party's annual conference that it was necessary for "government to tighten its belt a little so that low-income families don't have to tighten theirs a lot".

But Oxford MP Dr Evan Harris said the party's policy should be about "taxing more fairly and spending more wisely". Urging a rebellion, he said: "Hero worship of our leaders does not help them avoid the pitfalls of being labelled a tax-cutting party."





The full article contains 795 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 September 2008 7:25 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Liberal Democrats
 
1

Darien,

Panama 16/09/2008 00:40:33
Fib Dums are a waste of space, especially in Scotland.
2

Dunnie,

Canada 16/09/2008 02:02:27

Dem awful Libs!

One simple question: Who cares?
3

Wisnaeme,

16/09/2008 02:57:02

I wouldn't underestimate Fib Dem possibilities in the Glenrothes by-election. Not that I'm a fan of them and
their devious shenanigans. They are a waste of space.

I'm not into bookies odds either, nor into sooth saying.

But I'll say this, I would not be expecting then to be doing a Glasgow east and losing their deposit.

It may be even somewhat of a surprise to the Fib Dem's to somehow, by some miracle, discover that folk voted them into second position in the Glenrothes by-election.

And Tavish, sook that he is will beproclaining it from the rooftops that he is going to be the next First Minister. Aye, even I without the benefit of the sooth saying capacities would suggest that to be reconstituted mince, borrowed from his predecessor. But that's Fib dems for you, always the opportunists with illusions of grandeur. or in their dreams. as some folk would say.
.
.
4

Cabbie,

Embra 16/09/2008 02:58:30
the Fib Dems should have formed a coalition with the SNP in Holyrood. Bet they wish they did. Insted they are an irrelevance
5

Randomly Blocked Poster, ,

16/09/2008 06:15:01
Coalition has killed the Fib Dems. Fair reward .
6

Jimmy Le Pie,

16/09/2008 06:34:20
What goes around comes around.

They should have thought long term, instead of jumping into bed with New Labour Sleaze to get to the top table. The electorate aren't that stupid
7

Boy Wonder,

16/09/2008 07:17:10
The Libdumbs will get into bed with anybody ... and the voting public do not appreciate this kind of prostitution.
8

Vote UKIP,

16/09/2008 07:28:43
Great news. That means they have to be replaced by UKIP MPs!

UKIP has common sense policies.

Don't trust the Lib-Lab-SNP-Con. They all support the EU and as such, their loyalties lie with Brussels, not the electorate!
9

Boy Wonder,

16/09/2008 07:49:31
#8 UKIP are even worse cos they're even more stupid than the Libdumbs!
10

McMillar,

Golf Course in Fife 16/09/2008 08:01:02
The best thing they had was Charlie Kennedy. Since the nonsense that surrounded his removal as leader they have just imploded spectacularly. Who could ever support a party where the married leadership contenders suddenly come stumbling out of the closet. What else have they been hiding? Then in Scotland….Nicol ‘smells like’ Stephen and his bypass. Just as disgrace and has led them to oblivion. Good luck to the new chap but way too late I expect. They have been strong in Fife and I did like Ming but those days have gone, now just a wasted vote.
11

Paddi,

16/09/2008 08:35:29
Where are the other half going?
12

Doh,

16/09/2008 08:42:47


A life without risk is a life half lived.

I also thibnk the next election is a tremedous opportunity for making modest gains.

Then after that the sky is the limit when the tide goes out on that smary phoney Cameron.
13

Linda,

Edinburgh 16/09/2008 09:19:26
Lib Dem support and votes cast in by elections in Scotland has halved since last Westminster election.

The reason their leader and campaign manager are from Northern Isles is that the rest of their MPs in Scotland, with one or two exceptions, will be too busy trying to save their seats.

In 2005 they successfully portrayed themselves as Anti War and in favour of high standard of public services.

They can't play that card anymore and are suffering from rise of Tories down South and from the success SNP Scottish government here.
14

Darien,

Panama 16/09/2008 09:31:57
#13 FibDum seats in their Northern Isles heartland are now also like coats hanging on shoogly nails. Even there the folks are waking up. Prof Curtis is right - FibDums are an irrelevance.
15

Alan B,

16/09/2008 09:41:38
The lib dems will probably be squeezed as normally happens when there is a tight 2 horse race for the next election.

Having said that with Clegg adopting a more tax cutting stance the lib dems are probably the best of the 3 big Westminster parties. Labour are awful and the tories have alot of baggage eg their anti european stance.

In Scotland the lib dems have been simply badly lead.
16

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 10:07:50
We are obviously no trying hard enough to get rid of the other half.
Are there any Fib Dems oot there who wish to share the reasons why they feel support for this party?
What do they actually stand for what is there foundation in politics? are they just somewhere to go for a protest vote?
17

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 10:09:08
8

What are these common sense policies? are there any which are not border line racist?
18

Vote UKIP,

16/09/2008 10:20:22
If you are found guilty in absentia by a court in another EU state, our government will have no option but to extradite you to serve your prison sentence there.

A measure passed by the European Parliament two weeks ago, which our own government has just endorsed, would mean that no member state could refuse to extradite an individual sought by another member state - even if that individual had been given a heavy prison term after a trial at which he was not present, could not defend himself, and may not even have known about.

The right to defend yourself in person is "not absolute", says the new regulation, so EU has decided it can be dispensed with when doing so increases "efficiency".

"Osama bin Laden has done more for European integration than anyone since Jacques Delors," says Graham Watson, the Lib Dem MEP. His claim sounds perverse - until you remember how persuasive the threat of terrorism has been in getting countries to accept pan-European steps to "integrate procedures for criminal justice", writes Alasdair Palmer in The Sunday Telegraph.
19

Doh,

16/09/2008 10:21:11
#15

AlanB beleive what you want if iot makes you happy.

The facts are the LibDems (in the UK) are sitting about 18% in the polls. That is better than midterm in the previous two electoral cycles.

I am looking forward to the next election.

Cameron is as phoney as Tony. Brown being unpopular s not the same as the Tories being popular. Tory support is a mile wide but an inch deep.
20

Vote UKIP,

16/09/2008 10:21:53
17

No we're not politically correct, if that's what you mean.

A spade is a spade. If that offends you, then tough.
21

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 16/09/2008 10:33:11
And good riddance to them. http://tinyurl.com/5el2cg
22

drunken proffet,

Tassy 16/09/2008 10:40:39
Not too difficult to achieve. Most folk accept that the political parties offer goodies to get re-alected. Not for the good of the country. Maggie Thatcher and Alex Salmond appear to work for the good of the country, the Labour party as always has worked to be re-elected. Behave yourselves, I never said that Alex Salmond worked with Margaret Thatcher. Ach make your own mind up, why should I worry. The machinations of the political parties are good fun, I should know, I live in Tasmania.
23

Publius,

London 16/09/2008 10:47:42
Journalist: Do you you know any political jokes?
David Cameron: I know one political joke?
Journalist: Tell us your political joke.
Cameron: Nick Clegg
24

Alan B,

16/09/2008 10:55:13
#Doh

It is not about believe something to make me happy. I am just saying based on previous history that when there is a close 2 horse race other parties get squeezed. Do you disagree that tends to happen?

When Blair was certainty to win it did not really matter how people voted to some extent in certain seats. Did last yrs scottish election not squeeze the other parties due to the close nature of that election?

With first past the post to some extent it is about choosing between the big 2. As it is a winner takes all type of voting system. Unless it was split down the middle and the lib dems were to hold the balance of power. For the lib dems to make a difference people would have to believe the next election was split and the lib dems could hold the balance of power.

To an extent the same thing happened to the snp in scotland, this is shown by the fact they tend to get a larger support for the scottish parliament than westminster elections.
25

drunken proffet,

Tassy 16/09/2008 11:03:38
Do you realise that without politicians you would have to exist on the entertainment provided by the television programs.
26

Alan B,

16/09/2008 11:05:27
#Doh

"Cameron is as phoney as Tony. Brown being unpopular s not the same as the Tories being popular. Tory support is a mile wide but an inch deep."

Do not disagree with you regarding Cameron or Tony. Do think Clegg comes across any differenly to the public?

With Kennedy you guys had a charismatic leader. Do you not think you may suffer without him? (abit like the snp probably would without Salmond). Do you not think that rightly or wrongly the way Kennedy was dropped may have lost the lib dems some support? Even with Campbell you had a leader with gravitas. Although for some reason he disappointed as leader.

27

Number 6,

Germany 16/09/2008 11:25:53
Look onthe bright side fib dems.... you won't be losing as many as the Liebour party.
28

steve52,

Kinfauns 16/09/2008 11:37:00
Fib Dems......right name I say. I was amazed at the fibs our local councillor told to get voted back in. He claimed credit for things that we locals had done and he had not even been involved in. Now he is trying to be the big noise on P&K Council starting off with getting rid of meals on wheels.....

Two faced fib Dem stood for the position of MSP but kept seeking to be a councillor.....

How stupid they look when canvassing with those big placards all over the place.
29

Joe Macdelta.,

16/09/2008 11:46:18
Who??
30

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 11:55:16
20

Not politcally correct? now theres an understatement.
The SNPs foundation is Scottish independence and socialism.
Labours foundation used to be socialism now its conservatism
The Tories are and always have been conseravatism
Nobody knows what the Lib Dems foundations are.
But the UKIPs foundations are anti immigration and European integration.
In other words a secular UK Britain for the British and to hell with Johnny foreigner which now includes of course the Irish.
Where that falls down for an increacing amount of Scots is the problems with distinguishing Britain from England.
Just as the BNP you cannot ever be perceived as anything other than just another little Englander party. A break away splinter of ultra conservatives from the Tories.
Unlucky.
31

Alec M,

Falkirk 16/09/2008 11:57:32
On radio this morning I heard a Westmonster MP, appointed leader of their Scottish campaign at the next General Election, forecasting five LibDum gains!!
32

suchaparcelofrogues,

16/09/2008 12:00:06
31

From who?
33

Doh,

16/09/2008 12:22:13
#26 Alan

Charles was popular but not a big hitter. Of course any bad publicity is bad for any organisation.
But the fundamental political landscape doesnt change.

He is still an asset, just like Paddy and Vince etc.
Quite a strong team in my opinion.

Clegg will not become a national figure until he has the media exposure of fighting a general election.
But I dont think that be as significant a factor as he catastrophe about to engulf the Labour party. May I remind you at the last local elections the LibDems beat Labour into second place in the national share of the vote.
Not bad for a party being squeezed.
34

Doh,

16/09/2008 12:23:48
#32

Well I hope Nigel Griffiths is planning a change of career for a start.

His claims to have saved all the post offices in his cosntituency after voting to close them has not been that well received in Marchmont.
35

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 16/09/2008 12:25:25
33

Did they stand for anything other than as a protest against the standing government?
What Lib Dem policy got the people to vote for them?
36

Doh,

16/09/2008 12:48:27

Where do you want me to start -

Local Income Tax
Shifting tax burden onto green taxes
Closing tax loopholes
A renewable energy future, saying no to nuclear
Opposition to ID cards
Opposition to 42 day detention
Extension of civil liberties
Celebrating diversity not conformity
International cooperation not conflict, no to Iraq war
Commitment to social justice and an enterprise economy

That attracts support from people willing or able to overcome their innate class selfishness or ignorance.
37

Alan B,

16/09/2008 13:01:13
#suchaparcelofrogues

The lib dems do seem to have more policies than the big parties. Blair had little. His whole political approach was not have many policies or if you do not make them public. Cameron has followed that route.

Have a policy someone will critise it. Just talk about vague ideas eg change and slogans (tough on crime and tough on causes) and people tend to like that dumbed down version of politics.

The lib dems were the only party to publicly support indepedence of the bank of england. Something ex tory chancellors talked about and Brown did while not telling us beforehand. This policy was the best single economic policy in the last 10yrs.

The lib dems are also consistently the most pro european of the big parties. Labour having gone from anti eec to pro. But not enought to support the euro as they did not want to risk public rejection. The tories are increasingly anti eu but know they need to be a member for the uk economic prosperity and therefore do it grudgingly. And as such get sidelined.

Like it or not the lib dems also stand for PR and LIT.

You can add much of #Doh's list above.
38

Crania Nelsen,

Edinburgh 16/09/2008 14:02:35
For me the Libdems are now the only credible party, especially in Scotland with the one-trick SNP who continue not just to underperform on but even drop their election promises. Frankly, the Tories are an irrelevance here, and the Labour party... well.

As for 'getting into bed' with other parties; I don't see it that way. If the only way that you can deliver on promises made to voters is by sharing power and thereby influencing government, then surely that's not a bad thing!? Until the majority of people believe that the Libdems are the only party that's not stuck in the past but can handle modern-day challenges (and please let them prove it!) they will have to find other ways of showing they are willing to deliver on what they promise and stand for.
39

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/09/2008 14:14:19
"...do a deal with Labour or the Tories in the event of a hung parliament..."

Let's face it, a hung parliament is hardly likely is it? It will be a Tory landslide.
40

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 16/09/2008 14:55:34
If the Lib Dems were totally wiped off the face of the earth wouldn't that be a good thing?
Talk about a white noise issue. Wake me up when this one's over.
41

Chaplin,

16/09/2008 15:51:14
I thought the headline was refering to an optimistic appraisal of the labour parties chances.
42

European Scot,

16/09/2008 16:17:10
38 Crania Nelsen

" For me the Libdems are now the only credible party, especially in Scotland with the one-trick SNP who continue not just to underperform on but even drop their election promises."

Meanwhile in the real World.
43

Alan B,

16/09/2008 16:52:47
#Crania Nelsen

If the snp have underperformed you must have pretty high expections. They have surely massively outperformed the labour/lib dems governments in the first 2 terms of the sp and the tories before that.

Remember labour in government in scotland. Could not mark exam papers with complete disaster they made of the introduction of higher still. They were so incompetent when it came to transport they forgot to sign the documation necessary to run the toll at erskine bridge and it had to be suspended for a while. And their own health polices were slagged of by london labour. Even the lib dems admitted they got the health closures in scotland wrong.

Economically we can all see how poor labour and lib dems were and did little to address scotlands slow economic growth rate.

While i can understand why you would back the lib dems running westminster government. But in scotland the snp are clearly the best government scotland has seen.
44

Calvinist,

16/09/2008 20:29:44
Come of it now you SNP true believers. Better be nice to the LibDems, otherwise they might not support you with the LIT. And that would be shame, wouldn't it?

By the way when HBOS goes bust, what's the protocol? Will Slamond have to go cap-in-hand to Westminster and beg them to bail out this key element of the Scottish Economy?
45

Venerable Bede,

16/09/2008 20:43:59
#44 - given that it is actually HALIFAX bank of scotland, probably not! A merger of equals that was really a take-over. I wonder if any other banks, like HSBC are interested in purchasing them?
46

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 17/09/2008 10:59:25
36

Those are SNP manifesto promises not Lib Dem party policies. What to the Fib Dems stand for and what did they deliver when they shared power with Labour?
Oh I remember they dropped ever single one of the election manifesto promises in order to get a chance at power sharing.
why try to defend the indefensible?
47

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 17/09/2008 11:00:42
38

They sold every single one of their manifesto pledges in order to share power with Labour.
48

Doh,

17/09/2008 14:58:25
#47

Like introducing PR for local elections.

try engaging your brain before you spew out cheap smears
49

The west awake,

Argyll 19/09/2008 16:09:29
"The warning came as former leader Sir Menzies Campbell said the party should not "sell its birthright" and do a deal with Labour or the Tories in the event of a hung parliament, unless it received a guarantee that proportional representation would be introduced."

- What an auld hypocrit! Campbell was 100% behind the LDs unholy alliance with Labour in Holyrood and is loudly rumoured to have made a secret deal with Brown to deliver covert support in Westmister and (not so covert) in Holyrood in return for PR for Westminster.
Now his former partner is sinking this rat is jumping ship.
What a bunch of cynical eedgits, they deserve all they're getting.

 

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