Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Tuesday, 14th October 2008 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Lockerbie 'a dump', says MSP in rant against town, tycoon and youths with 'ugly' clothes



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 27 February 2008
WHEN Chris Harvie stood up to address the Scottish Parliament during a debate on improving tourism, his colleagues expected a reasoned report on his trip through the south of Scotland.
The last thing they expected him to do was brand the town of Lockerbie "a dump", deride the dress sense of the nation's youth as the worst in Europe, and then attack one of Scotland's leading businessmen for selling them the clothes in the first place.

But by the time the SNP MSP sat down, he had done just that, leaving fellow parliamentarians aghast and outraged.

Reporting on a recent journey through the south, Mr Harvie told the economy, energy and tourism committee: "On getting to Lockerbie, I discovered the place is a dump – Tescotown.

"It should really have a certain attraction of a rather sombre kind, as a place where something terrible happened.

"There are, after all, places on the Western Front and that sort of thing that have such an attraction for families who have lost people there.

"There are some attractive Victorian buildings, but roughly two-thirds of the shops in the main street are derelict, and there were lots of kids hanging around the place smoking, drinking and so on. It was not in the least attractive."

Mr Harvie, an MSP for Mid-Scotland and Fife, also criticised the attitude of some youths he encountered travelling by bus from Galashiels, complaining that they put their "big muddy trainers" on the seats, and went on to attack young people for the "ugly" clothes they wear.

He told MSPs: "It must also be said that the most immense fortune that has been made in Scotland in the past few years – that of Tom Hunter (founder of Sports Division] – has arisen from selling people what must be the ugliest clothes worn by anyone on the entire continent.

"Bavarian kids rarely wear anything other than knickerbockers, or something like that, but here that is replaced by universal sports goods, barely concealing the fact that Scotland is perhaps the least healthy nation in western Europe."

The 63-year-old history professor, who lectured in Germany for 27 years, was equally unimpressed by a trip south of the Border. "In Carlisle itself, the street of Butchergate is a booze canyon," he said.

"At our hotel, the manager said that they have tried to stop them, but another four pubs have opened up in the last three years.

"It is just a booze alley – the conditions can be imagined."

Derek Brownlee, a Conservative MSP, described Mr Harvie's comments on Lockerbie last week as an "appalling insult" to the town where 270 people died when Pan Am flight 103 was brought down by a terrorist bomb in 1988.

And he countered Mr Harvie's comments by saying that MSPs should be trying to help towns, not run them down.

The South of Scotland MSP added: "These comments are an appalling insult to Lockerbie. It is astonishing that, during a debate on how to increase tourism, Christopher Harvie decided instead to launch a vitriolic attack on the town based on one passing visit."

And Michael Dickie, a Liberal Democrat councillor for Lockerbie, said Mr Harvie "should apologise in person to local people".

HAPPY TO VOICE STRONG VIEWS

CHRISTOPHER Harvie, 63, is no stranger to controversy.

A former Labour supporter, the SNP MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife has been more than willing to take critical positions on his own party's policies. Last year, he led a revolt over his party's opposition to the Edinburgh tram system, claiming it was "absolutely vital" for the central belt.

Born in Motherwell and educated at the Royal High school in Edinburgh at the same time as the late Robin Cook, then Edinburgh University, he has been a professor of history at Strathclyde University and Tübingen University in Germany.

He once co-wrote a pamphlet with Gordon Brown advocating devolution but claims he has "no political career in view" and, instead, insists he wants to reform Scotland's political system, which he has branded "atrophied" and "dysfunctional".

In addition to this, he holds a strong desire to see the defunct Waverley railway line resuscitated.

He has also said he believes the world's oil reserves are entering the final stages of decline.

Perhaps the last word is best left to him: Mr Harvie describes himself as "a civic nationalist and greenish republican, continually nagged by Christian socialism".




The full article contains 750 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 February 2008 2:21 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lockerbie
 
1

Aýrshire Scot™,

27/02/2008 00:09:16
He was only telling the truth!
2

Conan the Librarian™,

27/02/2008 00:18:34
Why pick on Lockerbie?

There is a very horrible but cogent reason to visit there; to remember the insane policies of people we share this planet with...and remember they have children too.
3

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 27/02/2008 00:22:16
Mr. Harvie sounds like he needs to have a lie down after his exhausting travels.

While I don't, necessarily, disagree with his opinion of Lockerbie, I'm not an M-whatever-he-is-P and am not charged with delivering a report on tourism in Scotland.

His reflections on the attractions of 'the western front' are the first giveaway. You'll notice that, while he remarks on the 'sombre attraction' shared by Lockerbie and that dreadful, first world war region, he doesn't make any comment on the charms of Ypres as a town nowadays.

Or perhaps Mr. Harvie's travels were through time - and not Scotland's southern region (though there are similarities). His comment about "Bavarian kids rarely wear(ing) anything other than knickerbockers." is the clue here.

In any case, whether literally travelling through time to an age when Bavarian kids uniformly wore knickerbockers or metaphorically to the hinterlands of southern Scotland, perhaps Mr. Harvie would take care to recover from his next trip before letting his mouth out by itself.
4

beckypumps1,

Fife 27/02/2008 00:36:56
Whats wrong with calling a spade a spade? But he does sound like a mad old duffer (knickerbockers)!But he is spot on with the Tesco town and ned wear stuff.
5

,

27/02/2008 00:41:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 01:00:14
My ex wife belongs to this,..'neck-of-the-woods'

We were on the phone to my then mother-in-law, at the exact time the plane came down!
The Phones went silent, then no communication by phone for hours.
To this day, I will NEVER forget that terrible night, I even remember exactly what I was doing at the time.
Its still..'All TO VIVID'!

"Chris Harvie" should have more respect, he would not be saying this as he did, even if there is truism's in what he said!

Can I tell you all,? it was the worst night of terror in your wildest dream you could ever imagine, for all involved.
Every conceivable Emergency Service, Family's Friend and loved ones, were affected!

"Chris Harvie" has obviously.."NO IDEA" of the tragedy and pain it still brings to, family's, loved ones, and all involved, it still has today!
He should...'Button His Lip'!!
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 01:06:10
A...'Night of Hell'..would be an understatement!
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 01:11:32
Next, "Chris Harvie" will be talking about Dunblane!
We DONT need People like this!
9

Peh in the Skeh,

Hong Kong 27/02/2008 01:13:33
Taxi for Mr Harvie.
10

Jon Bon Jovi,

27/02/2008 01:30:25

there are a number of 'bandit' areas in scotland that need time to come out the gloom and regenerate...

however the amount of neds in and around these areas are spreading relentlessly!!!

bring back national service i say!!!!!
11

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 27/02/2008 01:45:01
I live very close to Lockerbie and my father was born there, so I am truly offended by the comments made by Harvie. It is easy to generalize on limited observations but as an MSP, Harvie has a responsibility to consider the impact of his remarks and the effect they may have on others.

His comments are not only insulting, they do not represent an accurate portrayal of the residents of Lockerbie and especially the younger generations.

Alex Salmond should demand an immediate apology be made by Harvie and the MSP should be suspended from the SNP caucus until he makes that apology. Alex must show that he is different from Wendy and Nicol who alibi the rantings of their members. Harvie's comments are a black eye for the party and the leader must hold him to account.

Mr. Harvie, you must now realize that your comments are both hurtful and inaccurate. You can make immediate amends by an apology. You should also contact the local administration and ask them to show you the real Lockerbie and meet with real residents and youths of the community.

I have sent an email to Alex demanding these actions and I urge all my fellow Nationalists to do the same. We must show that we are not clones of Labour or the LibDems and that we hold all our elected representatives to a higher standard.
12

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Dunfermline 27/02/2008 01:45:15
I do not find his comments in the least bit distasteful. He is merely saying it as he sees it, and probably how a lot of tourists see it as well.

Nobody likes to hear the things considered wrong with our country, but in order to fix it we need to know about it.

Let's see what our "Government" is prepared to do to fix the problem!
13

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Dunfermline 27/02/2008 01:50:10
#11

Please..... far too much emotion in your posting! You are too close to the "perceived" problem to offer any objective comment. As a fellow nationalist I will write to Alex supporting Harvie for insightfulness and frankness in reporting to parliament his findings.
14

An Beal Bacht,

27/02/2008 01:51:29
Charles Linskaill I have no wish to diminish the tragedy that was Lockerbie, but this story isn't about that. It's about the fabric of the town. Many Scottish towns look like they're from communist era eastern Europe. They really are dumps that I wouldn't want to live in. Is Lockerbie like that?

As for neds - somebody please do something!
15

,

27/02/2008 01:53:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Dunfermline 27/02/2008 01:59:00
#15
Probably somewhere in your bowels looking for the remnants of your pea brain.

17

,

27/02/2008 02:01:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

,

27/02/2008 02:08:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

somerferg,

Oz 27/02/2008 02:08:39
Eek having just about survived the hyperbole in some of the above comments I wish to add the following:

1.Chris Harvie is not being disrespectful to the people of Lockerbie who suffered in the aftermath of the PanAm bombing.
2. Many of his comments are on the money regarding not just Lockerbie but many of our towns and cities.
3. The desperation of the pro-NUmpty and pro-Unionist parties supporters is astounding. Just face up to the truth people - the SNP government is the best thing to happen to Scotland in a very long time and they and only they will acknowledge the issues in Scotland today and deal with them. Yes not by doing as they are told by London a la NUmpty/Tory/Fib Dem (crumbs from the master's table school of politics) but by coming up with workable solutions in Scotland for Scotland.
20

Dboy,

Japan 27/02/2008 02:09:44
While I have never been to Lockerbie I can imagine that it has suffered the same fate as many of the country's once thriving town centres. I took a drive through Brechin with a friend of mine a year ago and the place was like a ghost town. Harvie is only saying what most of us are thinking these days. Union Street in Aberdeen is another example of a major Scottish shopping street which is now home to 99p shops and other havens for low-life shoppers. The blame for these town centres decline lies firmly with previous administrations. We need to get the businesses back and reclaim the streets from the scum that are hanging around them. The main reason why I left Scotland is because of the depressed nature of everywhere I went. Everywhere you go there are fantastic Victorian buildings boarded up or occupied by crap shops or bookies.
I don't know anyone who doesn't think the same at home so why can't things be different?
21

,

27/02/2008 02:10:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 02:12:21
a proud doonhamer @#11,
You are exactly to the point..'well said'!

An Beal Bacht @#14,
Fair enough, but sensitivity goes a long way, instead of..
'Slagging'!!
" Chris Harvie" could of been saying and ideas of implementing on how to make.."Lockerbie" a Town of People that went through..'Hell' to 'Spring-Back' and to make it be, one of the most Proudest Towns in the World, that suffered the WORST Tragedy, but because of their resilience and love for each other,
'THEY SURVIVED'!!
23

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Dunfermline 27/02/2008 02:18:32
#16,

Please do not refer to me as "Pal". Pal is something I could never be to somebody with the intelligence of a gnats toe nail.
24

,

27/02/2008 02:20:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

,

27/02/2008 02:25:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 02:26:32
And Finally before I go..'Bed By'
Dont anyone..'knock' Lockerbie, it maybe just where my ex came from, what does it matter,?
Well IT DOES!
I have two Beautiful Daughters that would NOT be here now if Lockerbie, was never on the Map!
27

Dboy,

Japan 27/02/2008 02:26:59
It's important not to forget what has happened in Lockerbie, but let's put his comments in perspective. He did not single out Lockerbie and it's people for an attack, but rather commented on the depressed nature of the town.

Can # 11 honestly say he does not agree with Harvie? Wouldn't it be better if Lockerbie turned the tragedy into something positive by means of regenerating the town and turning it into a place where the people who lost loved ones can come to and not feel like they want to top themselves?

It's all very well commenting 'this is an outrage' and 'down with this sort of thing', but what are you bringing to the debate? Suggest what should be done to improve matters and prove Harvie wrong. That's what his comments were no doubt intended to do.
28

,

27/02/2008 02:32:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

truthsleuth,

27/02/2008 02:45:42
What after spending over £1million on a Footbridge/lift for the disabled to cross the rail line.
Must be the most expensive dump in Scotland.
30

Julian.,

edinburgh 27/02/2008 03:30:36
Charles,

And please don't knock The Standing Order pub either. My son would never have been born if that place hadn't existed.
31

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 27/02/2008 04:18:04
To my fellow Nationalists, I would like to make this point.

If the comments had been made by Andy Kerr or Charlie Gordon, we would be having a collective anuerism over the comments. We would demanding an apology at the least if not a resignation.

When an SNP MSP puts his foot in his mouth, we have a choice. We can act like Labour and offer alibis and "explanations" or we can stand up and admit that the words were not chosen well and urge an apology for any offense generated.

The point is not the accuracy or not. The point is that we should never generalize and in turn stigmatize an entire community by this type of comment. We are supposed to be better than that.

Time to do the right thing, not the Labour thing.

32

Richardinho,

27/02/2008 04:29:46
All very amusing. I really wouldn't take any of this too seriously.
33

Trade-wind,

USA 27/02/2008 05:48:43
#17 yae oot ah yer tree. Nay wey! CIA dina no that plane
was going doon. Wake up.

That is probably the problem. HE saw what others will see when going there. If people were to think about what he said and the omparisons he drew they might have a chance of recognising that a problem exists. BUT, instead everyone gets defensive and puts their back up
without regard for what his intensions were. To alert others to the dismal condition of a place that should reflect the respect due to Lockerbie.
34

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Dunfermline 27/02/2008 05:49:07
# 31

In the interest of Unity, I agree.

Free Scotland - A Nation Again!
35

Gilmartin,

Philippines 27/02/2008 06:28:35
Having visited Lockerbie on many occasions and having had the misfortune to work in Carlisle for many years I agree 100% with his comments. But I would not confine them to these 2 places- virtually the whole country is being overrun by an ever increasing drunken, anti-social underclass clad in tatty "sports" clothing and obligatory baseball cap. Sir Keith Joseph was correct when he warned of this back in the '70s. He was also correct when he suggested eugenics was the only way to halt the rise of the underclass. When are we going to forgo political correctness and seriously debate his proposal?
36

Bruce's spider,

South West Scotland 27/02/2008 07:08:14
#11 & #31 A Proud Doonhammer - get a grip! I too am a nationalist and I too will email Alex Salmond but to suggest he gives Harvie a pat on the back for having the courage to speak up. Collectively we are trussed up in various pieces of civil liberties and human rights legislation which actually acts to gag us for fear of offending someone in this pc age. Harvie, while he could have used more temperate language, speaks the truth altho' what he says about Lockerbie could also be said about Stranraer, Dalbeattie, Wigtown and on and on. The south west is utterly dependent upon the tourist trade yet it does so little to promote it. Look at the grotty, crumbling centre of your own town. Wake up Doonhammer! why should apologies be offered for someone speaking the truth? I think you need to get out more and see what's going on around you. Ditto to messrs Brownlee and Dickie who really need to wake up and smell the coffee. Town centres are dying the length and breadth of the country and sure much of the blame can be laid at the door of the politicos whom grant the likes of Tesco planning permission for out of town shopping centres but how many of the posters to this site go to these places? well think about it, if you made more of an effort to shop in the town centres and spent less money at Tescos and Morrisons then you could do more to open the empty shops than any politician ever could.
37

madrab,

edinburgh 27/02/2008 07:20:50
#33 It wouldn't be the first time that the US allowed an attack to take place, how about pearl harbour?

What has this to do with the speech above anyway?
38

Iain fae Elgin,

London 27/02/2008 07:36:33
A terrorist attack doesn't make it any less of a dump.
39

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 27/02/2008 07:42:02
Personally, I applaud the man for telling it like it is and as he saw it. He could easily have done what many MSP's do and say what people would like to hear regardless of the truth.
40

famie,

australia 27/02/2008 07:47:09
I have never visited Lockerbie so cannot make any comment. But if it is anything like some of the towns in Scotland which I did visit less than a year ago then he is probably right on the money. It is not that much different in some of the suburbs in sunny Perth. They are a disgrace and a reflection of a society which is so focused on economics that it has lost sight of the people particularly the young who have to live in this vacuous society. It is heartbreaking to see some of these young people so overweight and unhealthy clothed in cheap Chinese clothing. Good on this man whoever he is in speaking out some truths for a change. If only there was more of it rather than the self-serving mealy-mouthed rhetoric that passes for public discourse.
41

Joe,

Hawick 27/02/2008 07:47:22
So the SNP are now insulting Scotland?
42

lac,

Taupo 27/02/2008 07:49:10
Chris Harvie should be applauded for saying it as it is. Of course there are some sensitivities here about the bombing etc. However, the best thing about Lockerbie (and many other towns in D & G) is the road out. Once we can face the truth then we are nearer the solution to improving the place. Interesting that he should also mention the down side of Carlisle - yes, the Botchergate is a sh!t hole but at least there are many other merits of this, on average, attractive city.
43

conservative,

Fife 27/02/2008 07:51:40
Lockerbie a dump? Well he should have visited Dunfermline! A ghetto created by the cretins who are employed to loaf around at Fife Council.
44

Bascule,

27/02/2008 08:06:52
Well said Mr. Harvie (at least, on the basis of what has been reported in the Hootsmon). He was reporting on tourism and the impression given by Scottish towns in general. He will never be forgiven by our political masters because he pointed out the truth.
Scotland's towns and cities are a disgrace. Decades of decay, short-sighted planning, lack of imagination, cheap quick-fix policies, constant bowing to cut and paste high street chains, out of control licencing policies, lousy education, incompetent drugs and slcohol control, and the desire only for personal power and control have made this country a smelly, tatty, poverty ridden slum.
Travelling widely across Scotland, you'll find that some communities are gems - but the majority, in every region, are dilapidated and hopeless sinks of Labour dominated despair.
We have lost our pride in the smallest things; the lowest common denominator rules. And our 'masters', attracted by the bright shiny baubles, have betrayed this country. Bring thm to book, and make them answer to the people of Scotland.
45

K McDonald,

glasgow 27/02/2008 08:07:22
>>>I do not find his comments in the least bit distasteful. He is merely saying it as he sees it, and probably how a lot of tourists see it as well.

Nobody likes to hear the things considered wrong with our country, but in order to fix it we need to know about it.

Let's see what our "Government" is prepared to do to fix the problem!<<<

So Haggis, in your view it is wrong to wear certain types of clothes, sold to them by a certain person, especially if worn in ugly-town Lockerbie? Will the latest installment of nutty-nat-nannyism be a ban on trackies, trainers and dodgy architecture?

Are these authoritarian impulses common to all nats? Would it be acceptable for, dare I say it, an Englishman to make the same comments as the nutty-nat MSP?









46

Isonomia,

Lenzie 27/02/2008 08:09:29
If you've got kids who are daily being told to be afraid of adults and treat them all with suspicion, no wonder they grow up thinking adults are some kind of alien species to which they should all show contempt.

If you live in a world that is designed for the motorcar, where you have a choice of staying with your parents in the motorcar like some mummy's boy, or becoming an adult, getting out of the car, and walking around a derelict town with nothing to do except be criticised by MSPs and adults, then what surprises me is that these young kids are more resentful of the adults that drive past in their cars whilst they stand around in the rain.

If you are a young adult who sees a world full of adults burning all the oil, whilst dishonestly saying “they must save the planet” (global warming has stopped this century), if you see adults telling them they shouldn’t get into debt, knowing that the only way to get an education is to get into debt, and the only way in most towns to get accommodation is to go massively into debt – just at the time that everyone says houses are coming down. Then I think these kids are angels for taking the hypocrisy we adults throw at them!
47

Road to the isles,

27/02/2008 08:28:32
An other instance of good, balanced reporting from the Scotsman? I think not. I would have liked to have heard/seen the full speech, not the bits that the Scotsman homed in on. Make what you like of it but it's not the full story.
48

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 08:29:06
Aye Harvie could have pulled a few of his punches so as not to offend, but the facts are the facts. The state of many of our smaller towns leave a lot to be desired and there is a long way to go in bringing life back into them.

To me that is the point, we need to face up to reality and recognise that 50 years of Labour have left many towns in a hole. They are desperate for a boost in their local economies, and for bringing out into the open, perhaps the Scottish Government could get together with some of the most deprived areas Councils and set forward a plan to remedy the situation. Something as simple as a museum dedicated to the victims of terrorism throughout the World. It could end up a place for people affected by these terrible acts, and could in fact be a form of assisting the Lockerbie Economy. Christ instead of concentrating on negative, lets get things together and start thinking and acting in positive ways.

I remember the shock and horror of the Lockerbie disaster, and can remember sitting watching the telly with tears rolling down my face. This was my people and brought the whole thing closer to home than I would ever have wished. Lockerbie, Dunfermlin or any other Scottish Town deserves much more than the legacy of being part of an uncaring Britain that cannot see anything north of Londons boundaries.

We Scots need to commit ourselves to correcting the wrongs of the past. I have absolutely no doubt that we as a Nation are quite capable of anything, and should start the work in Scotlands Independant Future.
49

Bruce's spider,

27/02/2008 08:29:13
#46 top marks for the most meandering, BS post so far. You use the term Young Adults as though referring to some sub-species which is incapable of thinking for itself. Is this perhaps because you have in mind the same people who didn't pay attention in class so left school with nothing, who's idea of an evenings entertainment is sitting watching reality tv and who's reading material(assuming they can read) is the The Sin? ever heard of taking responsibility for your own life instead of when it fcuks up turning around and looking for someone else to blame?
50

eric,

Lothian 27/02/2008 08:32:36
Its only the truth.Look at the youth in Edinburgh they all look like something out of little Britain.badly dyed fish n chip shop hair pushing buggies and banging gum.
51

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 08:39:29
He's quite right about the clothes though.
52

Vincent-W,

27/02/2008 08:41:00
Instead of trying to defend the indefensible why don't Harvie's critics get off their collective @rses and start doing something positive about the towns they profess being so proud of?
53

Logie Almond,

27/02/2008 08:47:39
Amazing - a politician who tells the truth!
54

Alasdair,

27/02/2008 08:51:43
This faux outrage at his comments is typical of the wishy-washy ostrich syndrome that plagues this country.
We hear the same bleating every second year when Cumbernauld earns its near-annual Plook-on-a-plinth award.

The fact is that many of our towns have had the heart ripped out of them by years of ineptitude both at national and local government level. Lamentable planning decisions have permitted sprawling peripheral retail parks, and a lcak of investment in decent public transport infrastructure has further hampered the economic viability of town centres.

I comment Mr Harvie on his comments - what we need is tough love and tough decisions. The Scottish govenement must act to try and turn back the tide of stagnation before it really is too late.

It's a real shame that this execrable rag has once again put an opportunity to editorialise an article for party-political reasons before taking the chance to start a real debate on the issues concerned.
A shame, but hardly surprising.
55

Alasdair,

27/02/2008 08:52:41
Oops, that was supposed to read "commend"..
56

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 27/02/2008 08:53:00
#1, 35, 40 and others. I agree. Chris Harvie has merely stated what I and countless other Scots who have been around the world can confirm from experience. Scotland is appallingly run-down in every sense - physically, morally, aesthetically. That is why so many of us with the advantage of an international perspective have been fighting to stop the rot. Maybe Lockerbie was not the best example to use, in view of its other association confusing the issue, but his remarks are nonetheless completely accurate.

Don't be misled by the recent upsurge of energy and ideas, especially since the SNP has taken over the devolved government. The revival is starting from a very low base, and there is a long way to go yet. What Chris Harvie has said about Lockerbie could be applied to innumerable other town centres - Wishaw, Dumbarton etc. - and look at what is happening to the once attractive Inverness. (Cooncillor comment on town centre planning: "Whit are you complainin aboot - aa the big names are there").

In a sense, we are a fortunate generation, in that we have a task before us that is going to take generations to complete, if ever. A revival of essentials from manufacturing industry to history teaching and traditional architecture, the encouragement of individual enterprise and the promotion of discipline and self-respect are only a few aspects of that task of restoring the fabric of the nation. A start has been made, so let's get on with it - and don't leave it all to the Government!

57

Alastair the First,

27/02/2008 09:01:20
Sadly much of what this MSP said is true. Not pleasant to hear, but many towns on Scotland are run down and plagued with the shell-suited underclass. Lockerbie is not immune from that. The fact that a plane crashed there 20 years ago is irrelevant. I was involved in the aftermath and it obviously affected everyone involved, but that doesn't mean that Lockerbie, like othertowns, isn't suffering from the same problems as other towns throughout Scotland.
58

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 09:02:57
Vincent #52- That is very hard to do, given the town councils, the lack of money, and other reasons.
59

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 27/02/2008 09:06:10
Its nice for a change to have a politician say what he thinks. They usually spew a lot of long winded drivel.
Having never been to Lockerbie, I am in no position to comment on the appearance of it. But if it is anything like my home town of Greenock then I think the term Dump might be over-generous. Greenock also has Shell Suits as the uniform of choice for their feckless youth. I think a grand idea would be to require that all childern between the age of 6 and 18 only be allowed out in public if they are wearing kilts. The tourists would love it!
60

Amparo de Glasgow,

27/02/2008 09:08:57
Advice to Mr. Harvie ...!1

Resign now ya dough-heid !!!

Another shining example
... of why this silly experiment
... in New LayBore numpty-ism
... needs to be brought to an ABRUPT END NOW.

Uncle Tom's Cabin / Hollyrood should be terminated.

Or exposed for what it is.
i.e. an excuse for numptys like
... wee Eck;
... wee Joke McC;
... Bendy Wendy ("HOW AM I GOING TO SPIN THIS??") Alexander;
+
Nicola Stepford Wife Sturgeon-bot Version 3.001 ...

et al ...!!

This just makes Scotland
... the laughing stock
... of Planet Earth.

Axe Uncle Tom's Cabin now ...!!

It only produces egotistical eejits
... and causes us Scots to be
... more inward looking / parochial.

But then I suppose that is why
... the former Member for Sedgefield
... invented it in 1997.

What did Blair sing back then??

"Things can only get better ...!!"

Aye right ...
... better for corrupt feckless eeejits
... oan a grafty junket
... paid for by the tax-payer
61

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 27/02/2008 09:12:05
#60 Thank you for confirming everything I have written above.

62

Paddi,

27/02/2008 09:14:01
If he thinks Lockerbie is a dump can i suggest that he takes a wee trip south west down the A709 and take a look at Dumfries, Queen of the South, now there's an oxymoron.
63

Indigo Nightlight,

27/02/2008 09:18:33
If the kids of Lockerbie are dressed worse than either Alex Salmond with his colonial civil servant chic that he wore in Sri Lanka, or Nicola Sturgeon who regularly wears things that look like they've been fished out the bins behind Primark, then he might have a point.
64

Bruce's spider,

South West Scotland 27/02/2008 09:18:51
I like the sound of much of what you say Dr James but I'm not sure how in practical terms you are going to "Restore the fabric of a nation" - especially when you are in Vienna.
65

Doh,

27/02/2008 09:21:45


Well at least one member of the SNP supports the Trams.
66

Numpty Heid,

27/02/2008 09:23:27
Derek Brownlee, a Conservative MSP, described Mr Harvie's comments on Lockerbie last week as an "appalling insult" to the town where 270 people died when Pan Am flight 103 was brought down by a terrorist bomb in 1988.

Utter and total gibberish. It's not aimed at them at all. Bloody pillock.
67

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 27/02/2008 09:28:03
103 was not brought down by a bomb . The plane disintegrated in mid-air because of poor American maintenance .
68

McMillar,

Fife 27/02/2008 09:29:31
Tend to agree with #59 and it’s about time this was addressed. He could have visited most Scottish towns and made similar comments. Some are very grim and no-one is having a go at the people of Lockerbie. You could equally pick large parts of Edinburgh + Glasgow + Dundee etc…… I would much rather have politicians speaking their mind and raising the big topics (irrespective of party).
69

Indigo Nightlight,

27/02/2008 09:30:01
#68

Painful though it is to me to defend a Tory, he only said it was an insult to the town. the extraneous stuff about the bombing belongs to the journalist.
70

,

27/02/2008 09:34:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

Vincent-W,

27/02/2008 09:36:21
Guthrie - Just throw the towel in why don't you?

I never said it was easy, but if we are going to sit, night after night in our cosy little domains doing b*gger all, then we can hardly complain when the fabric of our towns is falling down.

How many of Harvie's critics above are community councillors, how many of them attend council meetings, how many of them contact their councillors with their concerns, how many support local clubs and societies, how many of them are member of trade associations which try to improve their town? etc etc.

I would be surprised if it was very many (I may be wrong) - it's easy to profess concern but more difficult to do something about it. We need more Harvies to shock us into taking action.
72

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 27/02/2008 09:36:55
#64 I am still working for the United Nations, and there is no employment in Scotland in my particular field - something that will have to be changed. Restoring the fabric of the nation will not be achieved as a single development, but only through a drive for perfection in all that we do covering every aspect of our national life, a task that is going to take many years. I have given some examples above.

73

,

27/02/2008 09:37:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
74

Orpheum,

Port Coquitlam, BC 27/02/2008 09:43:42
Visited Scotland last fall, my first visit in five years and much as I love the country and most of its people, the place is pretty run down. I did not visit Lockerbie but the description given here is similar to what I have found in many small towns, which I will not name nor offend, unmannerly youth, low hygene in washrooms and in restaurants and public transportation where seats are filthy from greasy workclothes or from the muck on shoes. Sorry, but I call 'em as I see 'em!
75

Amparo de Glasgow,

27/02/2008 09:46:55
#73 ..
Doctor James Wilkie ...
my dear fellow.

Yes it is a shame that
... talented people leave Scotland
Most put down roots / start families
Leaving the eejits
... and less creative scum behind.

I travel.

Look at how other parts
... of the planet strive
... for control of regional disputes
... and independance movements work elsewhere.

No
... I do not mean Kosovo (inspired by Islamofascism).

Check out ...>>
The Catalans;
the Basques
of Spain ...
they are a good example.

Scotland however I fear is sinking into a quagmire of parochial numpty-ism.

Close Uncle Tom's Cabin / Hollyrood
... A.S.A.P.
... like now now !!!
76

Eddie,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 09:50:01
How can anyone be offended by what he said?
Its all true. Looking at the Tourism thing, which is what he was doing, visitors would appreciate as certain 'sombre attraction'. There will always be people who will want to see Lockerbie, just because of the history. And what they will see is a dump, ugly neds and Tescotown. Thats all true.
Peiople who claim they are offended by his remarks are missing the point. His comments, if understood, will hopefully help the town see itself as others see it. His opinions are criticised as being based on a 'passing visit'. That's exactly what visitors will base their opinions on.
Sometimes we must examine why newspapers pick on particular aspects of someone's speech or report to attract controversy, rather than the bigger picture.
77

Eddie,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 09:51:11
And as long as we have people like AMPARO DE GLASGOW, maybe we should be advising tourists to stay well away.
78

tomislav,

home 27/02/2008 09:58:13
wheres lockerbie
79

Gothic Rose,

27/02/2008 10:02:24
Its FEBRUARY! I can`t think of anywhere in Scotland right now[apart from where I am right now]that is appealing.
Having said that,Mr.Harvie would be a trifle amusing if,he was not so scary.Time for reflection Mr.Harvie.or emigrate SOON.
80

Jwil,

27/02/2008 10:06:27
I am not sure what Mr Harvie's motive is, but if it's to try and stir people into an awareness that their towns and villages could be improved, then maybe its no bad thing. At least everyone has heard of Lockerbie, so it's putting the situation squarely in the frame. The oppositions MPs' are too ready to jump into attack mode instead of offering something constructive on how these problems can be overcome.
81

JayDeeTee,

27/02/2008 10:09:13
I thought we were supposed to have free speech in this country? What's wrong with this Chris Harvie guy, or anybody else for that matter, expressing their point of view about something. It is becoming ridiculous now - seems people can't even express a valid opinion on something without being accused of wrongdoing by some politically correct a@shole. This country is being ruined by this band of people who seem h.ell bent on reducing us to a nation of new speaks.
82

Mr Pink,

27/02/2008 10:10:36
This is Scotland in the 21st century I am afraid, not just Lockerbie. And all the PPP new schools in the world wont change it.

The 'best wee country in the world'.
83

Boggle fey the Bog,

27/02/2008 10:41:38
You read it in the 'Hootsmaun' that paragon of truth and virtuous reporting, so it must be true?

Mr Harvie, may or may not have said that which is claimed here, but his reported statements are pretty well true, if you travel anywhere in Scotland, you will find young people wearing, what is regarded by the Wannabe middle classes, attired in 'ned' gear, however for his assertion the Bavarian teens run about in knee high troosers, I personally find a wee bit far fetched, most Germans, although I must admit are not from South Germany, I have meet, tend to wear 'normal' clothing.

Perhaps he should expand his comments tae 'The Kingdom' as on my many visits there I have become of the opinion that it is populated by jakeys, neds and Loons, much like that which he claims for Lockerbie and Carlisle.

However, got to hand it to the man, present day teenagers , like previous generations of teenagers have an 'appalling' dress sense. They should all be made to dress like myself and Prof Whatshisname Hervie, in a white sports coat and a pink carnation with a pair of gray flannels and brown brogues. ;-)

Again another non-story from Scotlands' Second worst tabloid newspaper.
84

kamiddler,

Glasgow 27/02/2008 10:43:58
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/membersPages/chris_harvie/index.htm

Take a look at this. A checked jacket, striped shirt, incapable of tying his tie up properly.
85

Queen D,

Glasgow 27/02/2008 10:57:43
Sadly the man is absolutely on the button.
If Scotland is to improve tourism it must take a long hard look at itself , might not be too pleasant for we like to think of ourselves as pretty marvellous when in fact we have a ' leave your money and b**ger off 'attitude.
How many of you have tried to get a meal at some glorious tourist destination and been told ' we stop serving at 2'? (this is usually said at ten minutes to two and accompanied by a somewhat unwelcoming, defiant stare)
If we want to capitalise on the tourist industry some upleasant truths have to be faced.
If Holyrood cannot discuss these things with honesty and openness then we can kiss the tourist industry goodbye.
He was NOT belittling the Lockerbie crime.
86

,

27/02/2008 11:02:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
87

Amparo de Glasgow,

27/02/2008 11:08:46
it's sad
... what a bunch of small-minded
... parochial eejits
... us Scots have become.


We really need
...to get out more ehh??

How many of us have a passport these days??

How many of us Scots
... have been further afield
... than some lager-lout
... 'England in the Sun' Spanish tourist resort??

How many of us Scots bother
... to learn another language these days????

Damn few !!!

We should close Uncle Tom's Cabin down ...
Invest the money saved by this on decent projects

Projects :-
... like giving our people a sense of pride (not based on numpty-ism);

... understanding the contribution Scotland has made to this planet;

Our historical biography as a nation of scientists and inventors ...!!

This would be money well spent.

Why waste money on eejits like
wee Eck;
Bendy Wendy;
... this numpty Harvie;
and all the other fools Hollyrood produces.

We could regain our place in this planet
... instead of being it's laughing stock.


Huh??

Shut down Uncle Tom's Cabin ...
Put this eejit Harvie on the Dole ...!!

Put wee Eck
and
wee Wendy
... oot on their ears too

THEY ARE AN EMBARRESSMENT
LET'S DITCH ALL OF THEM !!!
88

Number 6,

Germany 27/02/2008 11:11:49
The man was spot on. Labour are no longer in control,
we may now critisise and apportion blame and responsibility at will. Stop being so PC sensitive.
89

Amparo de Glasgow,

27/02/2008 11:31:38
#90
Number 6 Germany ...

Well if wee Wendy spins her scandal
... the West Central Scots + others in the Central belt
... might suffer memory loss ... like folk do on
... "baby kissing" / Election Day



#79 Eddie, Edinburgh ...
Oy oy oy
... que te pasa numpty??
... estas bien senor??

You strike me as another semi-literate Scotman who needs to get out more pal.

Did you zonk oot
...oan milk and biscuits
... whilst you watched "Braveheart" huh??

Do you speak any other languages matey??

I suspect like most bigots
(the UK is full of them)
... you don't make the effort huh??

Correct me if I am wrong Eddie ...!!
90

Exasperated,

Guildford 27/02/2008 11:43:47
Well said Chris Harvie - he simply stated the obvious truth and there is no disrespect in truth. Seems like Scots are too soft and don't like it when somebody 'tells it like it is' - should he have said it's a wonderful, scenic town with admirable youth?? Get off whatever toadstools you fairies are sitting on & see it the way it is!
91

scunnin,

Vienna 27/02/2008 11:46:56
I have to say I agree with the mans comments! Parts of scotland are embarassing. Parts of it are really beautiful.. I love to go home, but I love to leave. I have felt embarassed flying there and thinking wow I am glad I dont live there anymore. Its sad I know but saying Lockerbie is a dump isnt insulting the memory of the people who died there, thats got nothing to do with it. Saying Lockerbie is a dump is a clear observation of issues that are growing. Scotland has been run down by the Labour government, many people barely survive above the breadline.

Its sad but true that it has become like that. UK is closer to a 3rd world country than most European countries. Its health service is deteriorating, the Police force are not effective as they are run down. The schooling is becoming worse with kids "beating up their teachers". When are we going to realise its time that we invested in our own country rather than in others.
92

GP,

27/02/2008 12:06:26
19# well said.
Go acrross the borders and from town to town you see what?
Hawick - a dump
Gala - a dump
Langholm - a dump
Jed - a dump
Selkirk - a dump

All these places have been let down badly by all governments. It is to our disgrace and shame that we have left the borders to rot whilst spending continual vast sums on "fixing" the Glasgow problems.
This has been both a waste of money and traitorous to our own folk.
Most of the "neds" in Galashiels are extracts from weegie land anyway. An export of trouble to town that has little to offer in terms of employment and prospect.
Typical retorts against the Harvie man but he has claled a spade a spade and people feel ashamed so get angry at him instead of gettin gout of their ways and make a difference.