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Athletes play down prospect of a Scottish Olympic team



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Published Date: 26 August 2008
TWO more top Scottish Olympians have joined triple gold-medal winner Chris Hoy in warning against calls for a separate team for Scotland at the Olympics.
Sprinter Allan Wells, who won the 100m in Moscow in 1980, said Scotland would suffer without the coaches, facilities and resources provided by Team GB.

He said a lot of investment and work would be needed over a considerable period if a Scottish
team were ever going to be able to cope on their own at the Olympics.

And Craig MacLean, a former team-mate of Hoy's, said he thought creating a Scottish-only team would be "nonsense" and a "step backward".

Their comments come as a major blow to the Nationalists who want to see Scotland fielding its own Olympic team,

a view echoed by Sir Sean Connery, who said at an event at the Book Festival yesterday that he shared that aim.

On Sunday, Hoy blasted plans for Scotland to go it alone as "ridiculous", saying he would not have won three gold medals had he not been part of a British team.

The cyclist, Scotland's most successful Olympian, returned to Britain yesterday and reiterated his support for Team GB.

He said he was "a proud Scot and a very proud Brit as well", stressing the two identities were not mutually exclusive.

The success of Scots athletes in Beijing at a time when there is a Nationalist government in Edinburgh has forced the issue of Olympic representation to the top of the political and sporting agendas.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has made clear he would like to see a Scottish team at the Olympics, because he feels that would give more Scots the chance to compete at the highest level.

This view was reinforced by Sir Sean, who said:

"Scotland should always be a stand- alone nation at whatever, I believe."

That view is not shared by the nation's top Olympians, however.

Wells told The Scotsman: "We need to be part of the British team at the moment, because that is where all the coaches are, the facilities and the money.

"We would have to be an independent country for the International Olympic Committee to acknowledge us as a nation.

"If Scotland was to become independent, and we were to have our own Olympic team, then we would need those facilities in place in order to compete. I believe an investigation has to be started now, and money put aside now, to prepare for that eventuality.

"But there is something else as well I still have a problem with. A lot of our medals were won in team events. We are strong in those team events because we compete as a British team.

"If we go independent as a nation in the Olympics, then that part will be lost."

MacLean, who competed at the 2000 and 2004 Olympics, said: "I think the idea (of a Scottish Olympic team] is nonsense, to be honest. I don't think it would be a good idea.

"That would be a step backwards. While we might come back with one or two medals, it is far better to be part of something bigger, like Team GB."

Speaking at a press conference near Heathrow Airport after the British team arrived back from China, Hoy said: "I've been very proud to represent Scotland at the Commonwealth Games, and that is something I will always treasure and hopefully (I'll] compete again in future years."

But today, we are here to celebrate the British team. Scotland is part of Britain – they are not mutually exclusive."

He went on: "I am a proud Scot and a very proud Brit as well. In terms of Scotland becoming an Olympic nation by itself, I think there needs to be a lot more investment up there in terms of facilities, but today is about the British team really, and we are here to celebrate that."

The SNP's political opponents also intervened to criticise the Scottish Government over the Olympic issue.

Gavin Brown, for the Tories, said: "Team GB has had a remarkable Games and made us extremely proud. As an integral part of Team GB, Scottish athletes made an enormous contribution to the medal haul, and once again we punched above our weight.

"Now is the time for us to congratulate them all, but, instead, Alex Salmond is abusing the successful performances of Scotland's athletes to push his own separatist agenda. He should listen carefully to what the athletes themselves are saying. They, like the vast majority of Scots, are proud to be both Scottish and British."

Andy Kerr, the Labour leadership hopeful, said: "The SNP are so narrow-minded they cannot celebrate the success of Scots in the GB team. They can't cope with the fact that they are proud Scots and proud Brits.

"We must protect our athletes by ending this nonsense of a separate Scottish team for the Olympics. Let us celebrate the GB Olympic team and the Scottish Commonwealth team."

A spokesman for Mr Salmond claimed Hoy had not actually spoken against a Scottish team in the future, just against one now because of the lack of facilities.

He said: "We are putting in the investment in new facilities, including a new national velodrome in Glasgow, which will raise our ambition as a country and allow athletes to prepare properly."

Hoy also turned his fire on the City of Edinburgh Council's plans to demolish the velodrome at Meadowbank, leaving Scotland without a proper cycling facility until one is built in Glasgow in time for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

He said: "The bottom line is that I wouldn't be sitting here with three gold medals, or any gold medals, around my neck if there hadn't been a facility in Edinburgh when I was 13, 14 years of age.

"Obviously, there is a new track being built for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, but to demolish a track in Edinburgh means there is a whole crop of young riders who are never going to get the chance to try out the sport.

"It's very short-sighted, I think, but hopefully there can be some pressure put on them (the council] as a result of the success of the cycling team and the Olympic team as a whole."

Millions watch Beijing bow out and London raise 2012 curtain

MILLIONS of viewers tuned in to watch Beijing's handover to London, the BBC said yesterday.

The closing ceremony of the Olympics was seen by 6.8 million people on Sunday afternoon, followed by five million tuning into the 2012 party outside Buckingham Palace in London.

A BBC spokesman described it as a "substantial amount" of viewers for a Sunday afternoon.

Formally ending the Olympics, China put on a show of flying drummers, guns shooting confetti into the stands and gymnasts bouncing on stilts.

Footballer David Beckham, pop singer Leona Lewis and rock star Jimmy Page led London's eight-minute slot in the proceedings.

After the national anthem, sung by the National Youth Theatre, and the official handover, London's chance to impress the world began. Where Beijing relied on vast numbers of participants, London used fame and popular culture.

It started with a red double-decker bus driving around the track, pursued by gold medal-winning cyclists Chris Hoy, Victoria Pendleton and Jamie Staff, and being surrounded by dancers when it halted.

Tayyiba Dudhwala, a ten-year-old girl from east London, chosen in a Blue Peter competition, came out of the bus to receive a football from another girl, Erika Tham.

Lewis emerged from the roof on a rising column dressed in gold and singing an R'n'B aria. As the music reached a crescendo, Page came out on a rising stage with a guitar.

After a short pause, the unmistakable first riffs of Whole Lotta Love blasted out, and Lewis began singing.





The full article contains 1316 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 August 2008 8:54 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: London Olympics 2012
 
1

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 00:37:05
"Andy Kerr, the Labour leadership hopeful, said: "The SNP are so narrow-minded they cannot celebrate the success of Scots in the GB team. They can't cope with the fact that they are proud Scots and proud Brits."

The convenience of supposed dual nationality (albeit always with British superiority) is coming to an end. Folks are going to have to make a decision. My bet is the fast cyclist will come on board. Andy Kerr can go where the hell he wants.
2

Guga II,

Rockall 26/08/2008 00:37:18
Scotland can, and should field its own team for the next Olympics. We may not win too many medals to start with, but that is no reason to act like fearful children, scared of the dark and running to mummy.

Our athletes should have some pride in representing their own country, not the colonial power. The trouble is though that most of the professional athletes are more interested in lining their own pockets than they are in representing their own country.

Like too many people in Scotland, they are bought and sold for English gold, sic a parcel of rogues in a nation.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 00:44:44
Cue these athletes being described as traitors, unpatriotic, stupid, corrupt, money-motivated, confused, and - last gasp - misreported.

Guga has already made a start - "bought and sold for English gold."

4

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 26/08/2008 00:51:28
Typical hackneyed cliches from the guano producer at #3 the poet he quotes also said
" O, let us not, like snarling tykes,
In wrangling be divided,
Till, slap! come in a unco loun,
And wi' a rung decide it!
Be Britain still to Britain true,
Amang oursels united! "
For never but by British hands
Maun British wrangs be righted!
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 01:24:40
I think an email must have been sent to Guga and others from Cybernat Central to "lay off our boys!"
6

The Pict.,

Canada 26/08/2008 01:25:55
It's obvious that the athletes words or at any rate the MEANING are being twisted. What I read is that SCOTLAND does not have the proper TRAINING facilities to field a competitive team. Why is that??

Now for the 'cap in hand' or 'canny dae that' people I say 'YES WE CAN'. Stop being a bunch of gutless, spineless individuals.

The Jamaican BOLT trained in Jamaica where they have the same issue. Now he was a looser right?

So Scotland are incapable of running their own first clase training facilities. Really! WHY? WHY?
Perhaps one of you gutless ' canny dae that' types can explaint that.

Slainte mhath.
7

Jockdogma,

Ediinburgh 26/08/2008 01:34:36
As a nation our ability to cut our own throat is unbelieveable! I think Hoy was merely making the point that his efforts were enhanced by the resources offered by Team GB. I am alarmed by some of the comments on these threads just congratulate the guy & move on. As and when Scotland does become independent what are you all going to find to carp on about?
8

TommyKaye,

UK 26/08/2008 01:42:33
Heroes?

FUNNY HOW GORDON BROWN CAN MAKE HIMSELF SUDDENLY AVAILABLE TO SLAP ON THE AMBRE SOLAIRE AND BASK IN THE GLOW FROM THE TEAM GB OLYMPIC PERFORMANCE

- BUT -

CANNOT TURN UP TO PAY HIS RESPECTS WHEN THE COFFINS FLY IN FROM IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN - FUNNY THAT DONT YOU THINK FOR A MAN WHO WROTE A BOOK ON HEROES AND COURAGE AND SAID THERE WOULD BE NO MORE SPIN - HEROES?

RIDING A BIKE A HERO ?
9

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 26/08/2008 01:54:19
10, Spot on!
10

Brian Hill,

26/08/2008 01:58:37
'What I read is that SCOTLAND does not have the proper TRAINING facilities to field a competitive team'. THE PICT

My reading also Pict, Hoy and co are not against a Scottish Olympic Team in principal they are only expressing the (rather obvious) point that Scotland would need more cash and new sports facilities.

As these facilities to appear resistance will weaken. Of course, if we vote YES in 2010 the a Scottish team is inevitable in 2012.
11

Edward,

26/08/2008 02:03:14
I find it really amazing that the media have conveniently forgotten about the 2010 Commonwealth Games. Why is this? Perhaps that its not convenient for the Westminster Government in their hour of basking in others glory, being wrapped up in the Union flag. Well in just under 2 years we will have the 2010 Commonwealth Games, and guess what, no 'Team GB'!

But according to Allan Wells, he said Scotland would suffer without the coaches, facilities and resources that a Team GB provides, so by this reckoning we may as well not bother going to the Commonwealth Games as we simply cant cut it as we just dont have the coaches,facilities and resources !
Or Chris Hoy , who (aledgedly) blasted plans for Scotland to go it alone as "ridiculous", saying he would not have won three gold medals had he not been part of a British team. So by this token, he is stating that as part of a Scottish team with the same investment and resources (which Scotland should have) would not win anything!
Chris Hoy's remarks also highlighted another fact and that is that the Labour Government in London and the previous Labour administration in Scotland failed to invest in Sports in Scotland. In fact I would state that the Westminster Government have been guilty of making sure there is full and proper investment in England ober an above any consideration for the other nations of the United Kingdom, which could be called engineering the talent pool in favour of England. Which is why the vast majority of those in 'Team GB' are English, and those that are not English have to live and train in England (such as Chris Hoy) in order to advance them selves in sport!
12

PoI2,

26/08/2008 02:05:26
#12

That thought occurred to me also.
13

Traquir , Alba,

26/08/2008 02:08:31
From the Scottish athletes their comments are sadly
quite realistic :

"a lot of investment and work would be needed over a considerable period if a Scottish
team were ever going to be able to cope on their own at the Olympics"

This is a sad statement of fact the England and
particularly the South East is getting a massively
disproportionate level of funding. This diversion
of funds needs to be reversed as soon as possible.

From an Economic Impact analysis of the London
Olympics (see tinyurl.com/6my6gp ) we have :

"The implication of this is that for the rest of the UK (excluding London), London 2012 will have a negative
impact on GDP of c.£4 billion caused by the displacement of resources and activities towards London."

"A change in the number of businesses created is also
forecast and implies a considerable negative impact to
the rest of the UK (excluding London) resulting
from business closure or displacement towards the
London economy."

"Again this implies a huge negative effect on jobs in the rest of the UK (excluding London)"

And this report was before the massive and obscene
cost over runs from the original estimate of
£4 billion to now at least £14 billion see - tinyurl.com/6p43bv

Additionally £184 million has been taken from the Scottish lottery . see - tinyurl.com/6pyd43

The Scottish contribution to this "investment"
in the British Capital is all money that could
have been used to invest in facilities for
sports in Scotland.
14

Traquir , Alba,

26/08/2008 02:13:36
Cost of Manchester Velodrome without which
Scotland would have won no golds we are told -

£20 million

Cost of London Olympics brand new 2012 Velodrome
original estimate - £40 million
current estimate - £80 million

Monies taken from the Scottish Lottery to
fund the obscenely over budget London Olympics
£184 million
see - tinyurl.com/6pyd43

So basically almost NINE Manchester Velodromes
from the Scottish Lottery Funding alone.

This is just become absolutely scandalous and
everybody knows it is going to be much worse
in terms of even more over-budgeting. In fact
London's complete inability to keep even
remotely to budget is well documented - they
basically just squander their tributes from
their lesser provinces as if it is their
god given right.

"The average overrun in London was 131.5
per cent, almost four times higher than the national average overrun of 33.7 per cent and
making London the worst performing region in the country."

see - tinyurl.com/4swoxk

So London will end up with massive investments
in her infrastructure and has gone massively
over budget with no penalty whatsoever. Scotland
will continue to "invest" millions in this
latest British White Elephant instead of Scots
having the say to decide alternate real investments
we could be using these millions for such
as health care, real business investments,
education,...

These Union "dividends" are getting worse by
the day, no wonder our Scottish athletes (all of
which we should be very proud of), have significant
concerns that Scotland is too facility poor
to even host her own Olympic team. This is
a disgraceful state of affairs and the blame
should not be directed at the athletes but rather
at the legacy Scotland has inherited from
this rotting Union.

Saor Alba
15

Edward,

26/08/2008 02:16:18
Just a note as regards the demolition of the Velodrome in Edinburgh
This appears to have been on the cards long before the last elections as the Save Meadowbank Campaign (SMC) was formed in February 2007 (http://cyclingedinburgh.wordpress.com/2007/05/19/save-meadowbank-velodrome/)
16

Andrew D,

bne 26/08/2008 02:29:28
Both Hoy and Wells have said that Scotland doesn't have the facilities so trying to go alone in sport just now would hurt. They haven't said, they are against it in principle. (Though the other one appears to)

Either way, if and when Scotland becomes independant the point will be moot.
17

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 26/08/2008 02:53:27
Scotland sends a team to the Commonwealth Games and the Youth Games every two years with funding from Sports Scotland which is funded by the Scottish Government. At the Melbourne gaves we won 11 golds and was 6th in the medal rankings. England won 36 golds. Scotland is about one tenth of the population of England. We should on population have got about 4 golds if we had matched England. we had 3 times their success. To say we have not the athletes to compete at a world level or the resources or facilities to support them is patently untrue. even under the previous executive we had success. I'm sure that in Delhi our sportsmen and women will continue to do us proud. Congratulations to all who competed in Team GB.
18

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 26/08/2008 03:48:02
Hoys comments are a disgrace. He has been in the enemys camp for too long and has lost his marbles, far less his NATIONALITY WHICH IS SCOTTISH. He should hand the medals back to his beloved country of england. When SCOTLAND becomes INDEPENDENT in 2009, what is hoy going to do then??????
19

Royster,

26/08/2008 04:01:58
I see the plastic jocks are out in force.
20

John PM,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 04:15:22
The unionist attitude towards any suggestion of a Scottish team shows they have no pride in their own country. This negative carping explains their continuing well deserved drop in the opinion polls.

Hoy is entitled to his views but many see the British identity as a barrier to future success and to normal representation on the world stage. The athletes quoted have their view but I am sure there will be others who hold a different one.

Sadly we don't appear to have any yet who like Ireland would have the courage to climb a flag pole and remove the union jack and replace it with their own flag!

Support for 'team GB' no doubt helps selection prospects in the current set up. An independent team Scotland would create a lot of national pride however but it looks like we will need to vote for independence to get it.

We will see our own team in action in 2010 which coincides with the referendum year and in 2012 we will hopefully be independent so next time we will probably have our own recognised team anyway.
21

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 26/08/2008 04:24:19
LOL

How formulaic is the Scotsman's reporting?

This story got a reaction from the usual unionist trolls yesterday taking it's twisted quotes as gospel.

So what do the Scotsman journos do - run the storyy again with a tweak or two.

Lets just clarify Hoys position - he has critised the facilities in Scotland (the result of 'investment' by previous administrations) saying that as is he could not have succeeded with these facilities.

No story here, just spin and bull$hit, as usual.
22

Alan Reid,

NZ 26/08/2008 04:24:43
The question I would like to ask all the Scottish athletes is: IF there was world class training, coaching, and competing facilities in Scotland, would they then be more enthusiastic about living, training, competing in Scotland?

And if all the good training, coaching, and competing facilities is in England, then why is that? And where did they get all the money to pay for these facilities?
Why do we not have them in Scotland????? Why? Why?

23

Alan Reid,

NZ 26/08/2008 04:25:37
Remember Peter Nicol?
24

Anne,

Eaglesham 26/08/2008 06:25:52
Nicol abandoned his national identity for money, didn't he?
25

Boy Wonder,

26/08/2008 07:12:50
So they're all content to be Team Ying Guo are they??

Yin Guo did not mean Great Britain. It translates as England ... and the Saltire was banned too! Now there's racism at work!

We need to raise Scottish Athletics profile higher so that our athletes want to represent Scotland!
26

Louis Catorze,

26/08/2008 07:26:52
Team GB? Shurely shome mishtake?

UK...no?
27

common sense voice,

26/08/2008 07:36:12
we let sports "stars" and pop "stars" have a lot of say these day.... kiddies are interested in what they have to say.... doesn't mean we have to act on anything however
28

McMillar,

Fife 26/08/2008 07:42:15
Well done team GB and well done Chris Hoy. I’m delighted we have this arrangement and it gives our athletes the chance to compete with the best when we have real chances to win. It would seem the ‘games’ really start after the Olympics. The nationalist rally cry is becoming a bit dull and repetitive. They are ding a good (much better!) job at running Scotland and have tackled some big issues. However, this just makes it all sound small minded again. As soon as we have independence there will be the same again with infighting…..independence for Fife and all that.
29

It's me!,

26/08/2008 07:57:50
Does this mean Scottish athletes who will represent Scotland do not have the correct facilities to train for the 2010 Commonwealth games?
30

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 26/08/2008 08:00:48
Scotland is NOT a nation; it is a geographical area.

The ONLY true Scots are descendants of an alien, colonial, invasive force named the Scotti.

ALL genuine idigenees/aboriginals here are ethnically Britons and gentically identical to those elsewhere in the British Isles.

Thus the true nationalists are the Britons amongst us.

All the other claimants are divisive, deluded, self-seeking carpet baggers. (Now maybe that's a new Olympic sport that Shrek and his toadies could excel at?)

In the meantime our sportsmen should represent Great Britain, not North Britain.
31

donald,

glasgow 26/08/2008 08:07:31
You can always tell when Hamish's name will succeed his bylines.
32

eric,

26/08/2008 08:09:49
More folks are into politics than sport .The athletes will have a vote for independence just like most folks.
33

Melly,

Cuckfield 26/08/2008 08:10:23
Are we saying there NO centres of sporting excellence in Scotland ? NOT ONE ? How many sporting disciplines are there ? the assumption must be that they are all in England ? Was it only the English who paid for these centres or did we Scottish, Welsh and N. Ireland mugs cough up once again ? The union dividend sure works for one of the four nations, and it isn`t Scotland.
#35 Rulebusters. Time for your medication and back to bed.
34

drunken proffet,

Tassy 26/08/2008 08:19:52
It is not too difficult to work out. I reckon you should form a federation and make the London establishment one of the states. OK maybe a bum idea but it would solve a few problems. I mean at present it is London's oil. A seat of government up in the Midlands on a main train line. Bomb proof shelters and cheap housing. You cannot lose.
35

A Scott,

Glasgow 26/08/2008 08:23:58
Wells has been saying that for years ..Him Robertosn , Hoy live and train in England and are now thoroughly anglosised....pity but there you are.
36

MacGillicuddy,

26/08/2008 08:30:45
That Scotland does NOT have the necessary facilties to "home grow" our national athletes is a DAMNING indictment on successive past governments.
The union dividend eh? Don't make me laugh!
37

Jock E,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:34:00
I cannot believe some of the utter peurile, nasty,ignorant and unjust nonsense written by the same old prejudiced myopic contributors. Boring .......!!

#22 Scotindy. Your comments about Chris Hoy are drivel and offensive. Please stay in Los Angeles. You are denigrading a world-class athlete and first-class Scotsman. What World class contributions have you made to Scotland and Scottish life?

Manchester has the facilities because the Commonwealth games were held there. Glasgow will have the same after those games. Why was the Edinburgh Velofrome allowed to degenerate? Get a grip some you. You'll stand up straight when you balance the chips on both shoulders. No wonder so many great Scots leave our wonderful country?
38

The Tin Man,

26/08/2008 08:37:00
It is simple - athletics coaching can be added to the list of things that would be rented from the remainder of the UK by an independent Scottish government (Whilst we spend oil revenue re-creating organisations and infa-structure that already exist).
39

john z,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:49:39
How can we have a Scottish athletics team at the commonwealth games in a few years, but we can't have a Scottish team at the Olympics??? What these athletes have supposedly said, just doesn't add up.

Unless of course these athletes don't intend taking part in the commonwealth games??

Just so everyone knows the dirty game being played by Gordon Brown, it has been revealed today that MI5 have been planting stories on message boards and in the media to deliberately undermine muslim terrorists.

It is obvious they are doing the same to try to undermine the democratically elected Government of Scotland. Drip, drip, drip, the stories will come out, trying to delude the people of Scotland that Independence is bad, oil is running out (we produce more than kuwait) and English rule is good. Don't forget, MI5 in London is tasked with protecting and preserving the United Kingdom. It is not to preserve democracy for Scotland.

Don't believe me? check out the number of TV programmes that have been run about 'britain' since the SNP came to power. Media manipulation - that's how it's done, and that's how it was done in the 1970's. No wonder they won't let Scotland have its own broadcasting control via the Scottish parliament.
40

HJ,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:53:47
yet more discussion on whether we should have a Scottish olympic team but here are the facts -

1. those supportive of a scottish olympic team are Stewart Maxwell (who was probably picked last for every team at school), Alex Salmond (who i doubt even tried to play for a team) and Sean Connery (who claims to be dedicated to Team Scotland but was capped/knighted by Team GB and is trying to qualify via residency for Team Bahamas).

2. those opposed to a scottish olympic team are 4 times gold medalist Chris Hoy, 100m Gold medal winner Alan Wells, virtually every other major scottish sportsperson and probably nearly every other scot bar those who frequent pubs called the clansmen from 11am every day, think tartan is a nation dress and who believe Mel Gibson was a heroic scottish freedom fighter.

and before the cyber-nats start accusing me of hating scotland or putting us down, i am feircly patriotic and would always want to see scotland and scottish sportmen win. It's just i understand that, in olympic terms, and with the knock on benefits re the commonwealth games team, being part of a GB team gives scotland's sportsmen and women the best chance (thru the best funding, fascilities, coaching etc) of achieving that.

If Salmond et al want to politically point score on sports then do it by announcing new investment in scotland's sports infrastructure, or by halting the closure of the velodrome in Edinburgh (by the SNP-LibDem council). or is the nats' sports policy limited solely to corporate lunches and calls for a scottish olympic team?
41

HJ,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:55:18
ps. sorry for the dreadful spelling in the last email....i wasn't attempting doric!
42

MacGillicuddy,

26/08/2008 08:55:52
#44
Absolutely.

Scotland, as I understand is not actually a member country of the Commonwealth. So why do the Britnat unionists support a separate Scottish team for these games whilst opposing one for the Olympics?
43

Beergoggles,

England 26/08/2008 08:56:07
Why hark on and on and on about these matters? Scotland's referendum for independence will come soon enough and then both Scotland and England can joyfully go their seperate ways.
44

,

26/08/2008 08:56:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
45

Jung,

26/08/2008 09:03:05
#47

Scotland is probably allowed to have a separate team for the Commonwealth Games because it is still de facto a colony of England.
Well, at least it still seems like that!
46

Beergoggles,

England 26/08/2008 09:04:58
But I have no doubt that the constant derision of my country by some Scots will continue long after independence.
47

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:12:10
41 Macgillicuddy
Before you start ranting and blaming successive governments ask what has happened to the estimated £80 million committed to Sport Scotland from lottery funds over the years.
48

Calum10,

26/08/2008 09:31:49
Chris Hoy is a hypocrite.

Quote: "The bottom line is that I wouldn't be sitting here with three gold medals, or any gold medals, around my neck if there hadn't been a facility in Edinburgh when I was 13, 14 years of age."

Without Scotland being able to participate in and host the Commonweath games there would have been no velodrome in Edinburgh. Chris Hoy owes his career to Scotland being able to field a cycling team in international events.

If Chris Hoy is so enamoured by Manchester why doesn't he ride for England at the next Commonwealth Games. He shouldn't be allowed to ride for Scotland ever again.
49

MacGillicuddy,

26/08/2008 09:33:46
#52
Well I am sure you are just itching to tell us.

The point remains however that successive governments, have NOT funded sport in Scotland properly. Why else did Hoy have to go to England?
50

Calum10,

26/08/2008 09:33:53
#45

78% of Scots support fielding a Scottish Olmpic team for the London 2012 Olympics.

51

John south of Soutra,

26/08/2008 09:39:13
Has Hamish nothing else to write about, he is doing this story to death, of course athletes will play down talk of a scottish team they will be thinking about their funding.
52

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 09:43:31
#50 Scotland is the last major colony, but also the critical one as far as UK is concerned. Otherwise known as an 'internal' colony, once Scotland goes, the UK goes. That is why for some like Broon and others in dark shadows (see #44) it may be a de-colonisation too far. Remember his words - "we will do anything to keep the UK together". There is no-one more fundamentalist than a British nationalist. Salmond and his colleagues are braver than we think. Liberalisation of Scotland is achievable, despite many UK 'institutions' working against it, but will not be for the faint hearted.
53

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 09:44:25
Last night, at post #5, I said with regret that we might now expect these athletes to be described as traitors, unpatriotic, stupid, corrupt, money-motivated, confused, and misreported. The comment "bought and sold for English gold" had already been made by one who should have known better.

The abuse stopped - for a bit, and I assumed that someone at Cybernat Central Control had puy out a memo to get them to lay off. But it's clearly picked up.

Look at #22, by Scotindy (Los Angeles) - "He has been in the enemys camp for too long and has lost his marbles, far less his NATIONALITY WHICH IS SCOTTISH. He should hand the medals back to his beloved country of england."

That is completely outrageous, but typical of an attitude of doing down Scots who don't follow the "party line".

One of the reasons why the SNP won't succeed in driving the nations apart is that Scots will come to realise that the nationalist party and its supporters are not much more than a gang of deluded, bilious, green-ink writing, foaming mouthed zealots, who hate their fellow country people as much as they hate "the English."
54

Graeme,

Guangzhou 26/08/2008 09:45:48
#3, Gaga,

There you go again you pathetic wee man.

What a hypocrite you are. You by previous self-admission stated that you are well off financially and where did you make your cash? Within mostly the previous ‘English’ empire/commonwealth countries. If it were not for ‘Britain’ and her influence around the world you would have nothing bar your daily sad rants. Bought and sold by the same ‘butchers apron’ that you so detest. Eejit.

.

55

Jung,

26/08/2008 09:46:58
Ah! I get it now!

Scotland cannot get its independence because some of our athletes could not compete in team events at the Olympics because other members of the team HAVE to come from other countries in these islands.

Ah! I see. Better call off the independence referendum then. We cannot afford to upset a few elite sportsmen who NEED to win medals to allow them to access untold personal riches after they've won their medals.
56

Jung,

26/08/2008 09:48:23
#58

Oooh! Get her!!
57

Gordieboy,

Musselburgh 26/08/2008 09:49:13
This is a complete non-issue.

Look, it's actually very simple.

If Scotland is independent by 2012, then we have our own team at the Olympics.

If not, we compete as part of Great Britain.

I'm surprised at such a wily operator as Salmond blundering into a debate like this. As much as the potential erosion of Scotland's seperate footballing identity is a 'blue touchpaper' issue, so is the right of Scottish athletes to represent whoever they want to represent.

To come out with this stuff at a time when most people are quite happy to celebrate the achievements of Britain's athletes is both poor politics and dreadfully poor timing. I am an SNP supporter and a fan of Wee Eck, but on this one I think he has made a serious miscalculation.

There are serious issues to be debated coming up, and I'm afraid the existence or otherwise of a Scottish team at the Olympics is not something which I can get terribly worked-up about.
58

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:51:23
54 MacGillicuddy
Chris Hoy went to Manchester as there is an elite centre there for cyclists. In doing so he could utilise the facilities, expert coaching and engineered bikes developed there. There are 28 sports at the summer Olympics and many more at the winter Olympics. There are also many sports not included in either. If you are to offer a wide range of sports opportunities in all sports to match the opportunities available in the UK you would have to set up about 40/50 of these elite centres and spend £millions on each one each year running them. This would be a huge cost for a country of 5million people.
59

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 09:52:28
As great an Olympian Wells once was, he's from a different era. Some might say the David Jenkins era!
60

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 09:55:44
#61 Jung - "Oooh! Get her!!"

Your "humorous" homophobia betrays your lack of politics.

Do you agree with Guga and Scotindy and others like them that Scots sportspersons who take a view beyond the borders of Scotland are traitors? (And presumablty to suffer a traitor's fate.)

Or are you just in this to be abusive behind the anonymity of the internet?
61

HJ,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:57:20
#55 "78% of Scots support fielding a Scottish Olmpic team for the London 2012 Olympics" - according to who?
62

Jock Wilson,

26/08/2008 09:58:53
Hoy is a great cyclist but unfortunately his bike was not made in Scotland which lessens his achievements somewhat in my eyes. Couldn't he have found a Scottish bike?

The only true Scotch Olympian was Geordie who won a gold medal in the hammer event at the Melbourne Games in 1956. Reared exclusively on Scott's porridge oats, he triumphed despite being so poor that he could not even afford a surname.
63

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:07:49
Jock - MI5 and Gordon Brown conspired in the seventies with Alan Wells and the Editor of the Scotsman to demolish Scotland's burgeoning racing bike industry. The plant was exported to Northamptonshire by armed convoy in the middle of the night. It's a well-known fact - I heard all about it on The Internet.
64

bill-alba,

fife 26/08/2008 10:12:48
Scotland has no olympians so there is no point in the British olympians trying to pretend otherwise. If you say you are british you cant then say your scottish, before the britnats come on saying your calling them traitors look at the act of union according to that and the brits there is no land called scotland.
65

Jock's blog,

26/08/2008 10:30:30

http://www.savemeadowbank.org
66

Jung,

26/08/2008 10:31:42
#65 Fifi!

" Your "humorous" homophobia betrays your lack of politics "

Humorous? Yes

Homophobia? I will need to ask my civil partner if he thinks I'm homophobic.

And precisely how does your understanding of humorous homphobia give ANY indication about someone's understanding of pilitics.
67

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 10:34:49
As #62 Gordieboy says, this is a non issue. Blatant misrepresentation and distortion by Hamish and the Hootsman. Amazing that we've all become so used to this that it doesn't surprise anyone anymore.

Shame on you Hamish for trying to politicise this. A sure sign of how desperate you've become. Best get as many cheap shots in as you can. Ananda's coming.
I think once the Malaysians take over, we should all petition for Hamish's removal. If he hasn't fallen on his blunt sword beforehand.
68

,

26/08/2008 10:36:17
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69

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:36:39
I guess I should take it back about the homophobia, giving you some benefit of a lot of doubt, but you will see how I came to the conclusion. I'm right about the lack of politics betrayed by your comment, though.

Do you agree with Guga and Scotindy and others like them that Scots sportspersons who take a view beyond the borders of Scotland are traitors?
70

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 10:39:54
#58 - "One of the reasons why the SNP won't succeed in driving the nations apart is that Scots will come to realise that the nationalist party and its supporters are not much more than a gang of deluded, bilious, green-ink writing, foaming mouthed zealots, who hate their fellow country people as much as they hate "the English."

This is a bit extreme is it not. You're not by any chance a British Nationalist Fundamentalist?
71

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:40:44
#73 - again, an English MI5 plot. It can all be explained by a massive English MI5 conspiracy that only you and various others who sell the Scots Independent know about, and one which is viciously suppressed by the British media.
72

Calum10,

26/08/2008 10:42:07
Chris Hoy is a hypocrite, and there is nothing mutually exclusive about that in Team GB.
73

,

26/08/2008 10:42:21
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74

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:44:33
#75 - I'm not sure how it's extreme and fundamentalist to think that the rabid hatred shown by the likes of Guga and Scotindy, together with the gallpping paranoia shown by many others in forums like this, is going to demponstrate to ordinary Scots that the nationalists in this country are just as dodgy as nationalists all over the world.

I'm sure they would use green fonts in their postings if they could.
75

Anglofile,

26/08/2008 10:45:17
#22. Yeah, right, don't think so..... comments from someone who apparently lives in LA. Another of the "Scotland should be independent, but I won't live there" mob. Bosom buddies with Sham Cunnery and An(t)i Loonux.
76

,

26/08/2008 10:45:43
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77

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:45:47
#77, #78 - see what I mean! It's as if I planned that!
78

,

26/08/2008 10:46:44
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79

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:49:14
#81 - I think the nationalists should talk a lot more about Willie MacRae. Much, much, more. Every day. The secret MI5 conspiracy has been hidden too long.

Why don't Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon raise the issue incessantly? It's ovious to any True Patriot - they are MI5 assets, that's why!!!1!
80

,

26/08/2008 10:50:20
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81

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:50:43
#80 - maybe he's hiding out in LA so MI5 and the lizard people can't get him!!!!1!
82

Anne, Glasgow,

26/08/2008 10:51:10
Blimey. I wonder if anyone would tell Sweden that they should join up with Norway so that they could increase their chances of gold medals. I can just imagine their reactions.........!!!!!!!! So what is the problem with Scotland going it alone. I certainly don't feel represented by the Union Jack as the rest of the world see it as only representing England.
83

,

26/08/2008 10:51:58
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84

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 10:54:50
The anti-Scots brigade are at it again! Did anyone see the dispicable face of Myra Hindly on the official London 2012 Olympic presentation. Ian Brady would've been included too, but the organisers found out he was Scottish!
85

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:55:30
#88, no it hasn't. You're lying. MI5 and its assets Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have made sure that the Scots people will never know the truth!!! Only you and I know what really happened!!! And none of us want to suffer the same fate as Wendy Wood, do we????
86

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 26/08/2008 10:56:53
Why is it many of these "Heroic"superstars have the gall to lecture our Scottish nation - on what should be, or shouldn't be -after being spoon fed with a lavish life style (Paid for by Taxpayers cash)for months. One newspaper has already reported many off them had even the stamina and time to fornicate like rabbits inside their villages; maybe this was reeal the reason why they won so many medals?
Where were our the real heros during the athletes strenuous life style? They were were usefully engaged in what's left of our industry, our utilities, our hospitals etc. to make sure our sham democracy operates to allow us and our familiies to go about our every day.
Without these REAL heros; living in the dis-united UK would have been a total, worthless shambles; and the sad facts are, most off them are amongst the lowest earnings in Western Europe.
87

,

26/08/2008 10:57:15
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88

Marga,

Fife 26/08/2008 11:00:33
Re-post because it “got lost” first time round:

Medal table doesn’t tell the real story

Interesting article on El Pais front page today, sorry Spanish only. Comments on Olympics with particular (critical) take on the UK. Sour grapes or true?

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/medallero/enganoso/elpepudep/20080826elpepidep_2/Tes

2 quotes:
Medals reflect a country’s investment, not its sporting health.
Medal toll can have more influence on the stability of a country than the price of petrol, it says.

According to El País, the UK sat down 4 years ago and picked out the sports with least competition where they had some strength. It then deliberately targetted them with intensive investment for short-term gain in the next Olympics.

It also contrasts the UK’s liberal private-enterprise government and its fiercely state-controlled and centrally funded Olympic effort out of lottery money, to give UK a showcase performance for the London Olympics.

I read from this that Alex Salmond has been concentrating on sport for all Scots up to now, and that the SNP is showcasing good politics and not quasi-Stalinist bread and circuses, that are incidentally feeding into the (other) GB resurgence campaign. He shouldn’t take his eye off the ball now.

Oh, and don’t shoot the messanger, the sportsman and his or her dreams – its the message that’s suspect.
89

,

26/08/2008 11:01:13
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Jock Wilson,

26/08/2008 11:06:46
93 Marga,

Quote

"According to El País, the UK sat down 4 years ago and picked out the sports with least competition where they had some strength. It then deliberately targetted them with intensive investment for short-term gain in the next Olympics."

But this is truly terrible. These people are worse than war criminals. Fancy courting success as a deliberate strategy. I wish we were the sick man of Europe again. I miss the old days.