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Celtic 0-1 Motherwell: Strachan says title is 'near impossible' as Celtic tailspin continues



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Published Date: 07 April 2008
Celtic 0
Motherwell 1 Lappin (33)
CLASSICALLY educated or not, Gordon Strachan will have a deep understanding of what Hamlet meant when he referred to "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune".

Figuratively speaking, the little Celtic manager once again had to duck to avoid the verbal spears hurled by irate supporters on a day which re-affirmed that he and his players are in the grip of the icy, dead hand of a malign providence.

In the perpetual struggle for sovereignty between the Old Firm clubs, this is not an uncommon phenomenon. It is, indeed, a fairly regular occurrence whenever the transfer of power from one to the other is set in motion. On such occasions, the team in descent often becomes as helpless as a drunk, lurching from one calamity to the next, seemingly incapable of avoiding damage by even the unlikeliest of opponents.

It is an experience with which Rangers fans will have been more familiar in recent years, remembering the fecklessness of Alex McLeish's final season and, a little earlier, the fall of 2000-01, when Dick Advocaat's side, having won the championship by 21 points the previous year, finished 15 behind the Martin O'Neill-inspired Celtic.

In their first season under Mark McGhee, of course, it would be insulting to describe Motherwell as pushovers in Celtic's quest for recovery from the previous week's defeat at Ibrox. But, even if they did embark on this visit to Celtic Park in a share of third place in the Premier League, the 19-point gap between themselves and the reigning champions suggested a pronounced imbalance.

In any case, Strachan's team in the nine matches since the jolting home defeat by Barcelona in the Champions League that seemed to trigger the tailspin had won just four. They had delivered a mere nine goals – three of them in the game against a Gretna side cobbled together by the administrator – and had failed to register a single goal in their two previous outings at home, against Dundee United and Aberdeen.

This pointed to an inexorable slide, a vulnerability that would encourage any opponent to believe that a joust with Celtic in their current state of uncertainty, home or away, held the promise of profit. The optimism would apply even to a Motherwell team who had lost 3-0 at the same venue back in October.

Even so, the admirably honest McGhee himself seemed bewildered by his side's victory after 90 minutes in which they had been almost relentlessly confined to their own half of the field. The hostility towards Strachan from the Celtic support, calling for his removal, was utterly predictable, but, on this occasion, difficult to justify.

While the extent of Celtic's authority in previous non-scoring matches against Rangers, Aberdeen and Dundee United had been exaggerated in some quarters, their control on this occasion was almost complete. It was impossible not to imagine Strachan wondering what he was supposed to do about players whose failure to convert their domination into victory had nothing to do with the manager's selection or deployment.

He may, however, have concluded after the first 20 minutes of uninterrupted, but fruitless, assaults on the visiting defence that the match would follow a depressingly familiar course. Even when Motherwell were reduced to ten men with the ordering-off of Bob Malcolm for an over-the-ball challenge on Massimo Donati as early as the 51st minute, there remained the feeling that the home side were destined once again not to score.

McGhee may have harboured a certain sympathy for his long-time friend, Strachan, and for Celtic, the club he has always supported, but that, as he confirmed, would be submerged in the joy of victory.

"I can't think of Gordon in that way right now," he said. "I'm a Celtic fan, I played for this club and I've always been a supporter and if you asked me who I would like to see win the league, I would say Celtic.

"But we took two points off Rangers earlier in the season and for Walter Smith and Ally McCoist to see us do this today, it means I can look them in the eye.

"It's a huge result for me, to come here and win for the first time as a manager. I don't think there's any doubt that our goal was against the run of play. We simply couldn't get to grips with Celtic and they had an awful lot of crosses into our box. But we defended well, especially after Bob was sent off."

When Simon Lappin volleyed the loose ball into an unprotected net after Artur Boruc had dived to parry Marc Fitzpatrick's initial drive, even the most vehement of Strachan's critics would have had to agree that it was a bizarre moment.

Scott Brown, Shunsuke Nakamura and Donati had all squandered good opportunities and Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink had headed against the crossbar during those opening 20 minutes of aggression. It was a series that seemed simply to reinforce the impression that Celtic are now at the mercy of an irresistible downward spiral.

Strachan was understandably subdued afterwards, agreeing that the retention of the championship "has got to be near impossible now". On top of the defeat, he had had to contend with Scott McDonald's petulant reaction to being replaced by Georgios Samaras after an hour.

"There are more important things in the wider scheme than Scott's reaction," he said. "He's apologised to me and to his team-mates, but it's a small thing when placed in the context of losing at home to Motherwell. And there's nothing I can do about the fans' reaction to him being taken off. I was trying to win the game."


The full article contains 969 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 April 2008 10:21 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Motherwell FC , Celtic FC
 
1

Raskolnikov,

07/04/2008 00:35:54
I heard a fat lady singing at 2am Sunday morning - Queensland time.

Gordon Strachan will be replaced at the end of the season. Of that there can be no doubt, and before some of my fellow Celtic fans ask the obvious question - if I buy a meal in a restaurant and find it to be putrid and inedible, and I suggest to the owner that he sack his chef, I would not expect the owner to then ask me who I think he should replace him with.

Strachan has his favourite players who, regardless of the paucity of their performances, appear to be first names on his team sheet every week. He has done himself no favours and his time is up.

Losing the SPL title is one thing, but to lose it to an absolutely dire and unimaginative Rangers team is just not acceptable.

Personally, I would like to see Roy Keane get the job. If we can't get him then it has to be David Moyes or Tony Mowbray.

Celtic's season is over.

Roll on next season with a new manager, new players and a clear-out of all the deadwood. We all know who they are.
2

Just an opinion,

USA 07/04/2008 00:54:19
Never liked Strachan as a player - a little nark, as we used to say, but, grudgingly a good one.
But he is being held hostage by a Board who admirably will not get into debt, but who must stand up and be counted.
What do they want?
Strachan has delivered not once, but twice into the last sixteen of the Champions League - I rest my case.
The Celtic fans should ponder a post Strachan fate should there be one.
It might be impossible for them to grow up and realise Rangers and Celtic have no devine right to Scottish Football supremacy no matter how it has looked that way since the game virtually started there.
But Strachan has come, Strachan has delivered, and if the Celtic Board press the panic button and throw him to the wolves, then they deserve grief and more grief because the little b...... has truly delivered and, with their 100% support, will deliver again - not that I want them to!!!
But let's get real!!!
3

RadRab,

OutBush 07/04/2008 01:02:44
He has delivered - that is correct. I still back Strachan as Celtic manager. However, if you consider the Rangers sides of the last couple of years they were as lacklustre and weak as they have been in recent times. Under Le Guen they were nothing short of shocking and in McLeish's last year as boss mediocre at best. So yes, he has delivered two leaugue titles but against what? The Champions League efforts are to be saluted for sure and are a great achievement. I think he has a season in him yet but Celtic have droppped the ball domestically this season and serious work is required to get our hands on the SPL trophy next year.
4

Real King of Spain,

MAD 07/04/2008 01:35:35
Stand up for the champions!
5

Just an opinion,

USA 07/04/2008 01:39:32
OK Redrab, given that they give Strachan one more year albeit with the hangman's noose in one hand, and their cheque=bool so deep in their pockets as to be out of reach for the poor little sod, Hell mend them!!!!
Forget poor Rangers teams, that has nothing to do with it.
The past is past.
Right now, Strachan has shown an ingenuity that no other Scottish Manager has shown in taking them into the Champions League last sixteen not once, but twice!!!
This year they ran out of gas amongst other things, Strachan ran out of cheques from the Board, and to say he is tactically inept after he thwarted Alec Fergusson is beyond reply.
Naw, the Board need to really come out and say 'the buck stops here'.
You cannot build a super car from parts out of a scrap yard.
Basically, both the Old Firm are engaging in that nowadays and if they don't do it, McLeish, Strachan and uncle Tom Cobbelly and all are for the scrap yard themselves.
6

Oor_Wullie,

ma_bucket 07/04/2008 01:42:05
- so far, we have had Strachan (#1) and the Board (#2) and Rangers being cr*p (#3) to blame, howsabout the people on the park taking some responsibility for once?

"..Even so, the admirably honest McGhee himself seemed bewildered by his side's victory after 90 minutes.."

- and therein lies the problem. A Celtic squad of this quality (and there is still some quality there) should *never* have to suffer a record of 1 win in seven games (thank God for Gretna), regardless of who is choosing the team on the day. The fact that five of these games have also remained goalless means at least some of this team are now no longer, whether subconsciously or deliberately, interested in fighting, winning and retaining Strachan as their manager.

Such an accusation is obviously difficult to prove over any individual player, however, the general feeling remains that something more than just the manager is wrong at Celtic Park at present. The return of Lennon (an unlikely saviour, if ever there was one), the rumours that Strachan would resign "this season, if he only he could win a third Title", the timing of Riordans "Strachan cant play me, hed have to admit he was wrong" remarks, McDonalds ToysOotThePram, etc. - all these things point to a deeper malaise than any superficial player form trough, not to mention an increasing lack of respect for WGS.

For most observers, it should be obvious that the situation as it stands cannot be allowed to deteriorate much further. For me, the crunch comes now with the two Rangers games - it is probably unlikely WGS will survive till next season now anyway and the players must be warned regarding these fixtures, regardless of what they personally think of the manager, his failings or otherwise, or what they think "not winning" may achieve - another two spineless performances on their part is entirely unacceptable and it is high time for some people to stand up and turn in a performance to be reckoned with, to do otherwise is cheating,
7

Oor_Wullie,

ma_bucket 07/04/2008 01:43:20
/cont.

Regardless of what you may or may not think of Strachan, and I would happily admit he is/was no stranger to bizarre decisions sometimes, he has IMO been let down by a combination of both stubborness and undeserved and unrequited faith in some players, one or two of whom are seemingly overdue a good look at themselves in the mirror sometime.
8

Braesbear,

07/04/2008 01:44:29
5

I basically agree with most of what you say, however Strachans Celtic this season were extremely fortunate to qualify for the group stages and from the group. In my opinion his team has gone backwards from last season.
9

D$,

Philly 07/04/2008 01:53:10
Gordon...just give Riordan a shot...
10

Thaitym,

Pakkred 07/04/2008 02:53:45
One of the problems is that Strachan is trying to do something that is difficult to do with the quality of players he has - to be Arsenal. STrachan has made no bones about his admiration for that side, but his players aren't capable of delivering. Even Arsenal can't really deliver trophies and will have to have a plan B if the fans are to see some silverware. Arsenal's midfield players are a lot more capable of defending and attacking than are Celtic's. In fact with such a midfield it's a miracle that Celtic haven't conceded a lot more goals. Just shows that the back four are not as bad as some would have us believe. We seem to be creating plenty of opportunities but the problem is that we don't have strikers and midfielders converting them at the moment. Brown & Donati no record as goasl scorers, Naka off form, McGeady never prolific. VOH cannot be relied upon and McD has played too many games and hasnow lost his sharpness in front of goal.

Strachan has a limited number of choices given his resources. He wants his players to develop and is giving them the opportunity to do so. Give him a break. MON delivered failure too and nobody was calling for his head.
11

celticdaft,

07/04/2008 03:16:20
I don't think there is anything wrong with the bulk of the players he has. When WS returned to 'them' he didn't overnight change every single player but the rot stopped fairly quickly with by and large the same team. There has to be some problem behind the scenes on top of the other things people have pointed out here eg his faith in certain players and his reluctance to play others. What else can there be. He had the Polish centre forward...world cup and euro champ qualifying yet he can't get on the bench. Likewise for other players and i'm not a fan of a few of these but Graveson, Balde and Riordan can't get a game. There seems to be something going on with McDonald and i think McGeady's body language says a lot on the field. The big problem is that if he gets one more season he isn't going to get much more from this squad which means he is going to have to bring in about 5 or 6 players and i just don't trust that he has the smarts to deliver. It will likely be more of the same.

I've said before and many have disagreed but the 2 x last 16 were more about good fortune than good play. As much as i enjoyed them we need a bit more than Celtic have produced to crack europe. This season it was down to Dida, a last second good break of the ball against Donetsk and a deflected McGeady shot against Benfica. Last season it was an incredible free kick against Man U. Away record is mince and the fortress parkhead isn't. Barcelona took care of that. (and Aberdeen, and now motherwell)

The reality here is they are going backwards. There is a real danger that if he stays the next few years are going to be dreadful.

Like #1 i don't know who they could get in his place. Maybe Mowbrey. or Keane. They both understand the pressure cooker. I'm not sure either is experienced enough for it though. Lennon or Lambert or even McGee.... doubt it. Maybe someone unfamiliar is the best bet. Wim jansen wasn't exactly well known in Glasgow but he did the job and knew the odd good play
12

GQuestAlex,

San Francisco 07/04/2008 03:18:29
Strachan has not tactical skills and the team lacks leadership on the field.
13

Celtic Forever,

Oz 07/04/2008 04:03:13
Celtic dominated when Rangers were re-building and it made us look good. The truth is that Strachan has never been goood enough. Sure we won 2 championships but we had no competition. Now that Rangers are a half-decent side (and no more that that) we are exposed.

He has persisted with Caldwell, Naylor, Donnati and JVofH when they are clearly not good enough. He has also persisted with Naka when he has never really recovered from his injury and he has failed to give Mcgeady a break when the boy has carried the side all year.

Added to this, he has made us predicatble and every team we play know exactly how we are going to line up and what tactics we will deploy.

The board will not sack him as it is not what we do so, Gordon, please quit at the end of the season. Celtic are too big for you. Half the fans didn't want you in the first place and the other half seemed to have had enough now too.
14

Keyboard supporter,

07/04/2008 04:07:30
Whatever the outcome of speculation regarding Strachans future i would suggest that you've no chance of attaining any of the trio so often mentioned by Raskolnikov & others.

Roy Keane - No chance - he's unequivocably supported by his board under Quinn and would hardly be enthralled with Celtics' PLC boards note parsimmony

Mowbray - If West Brom go up again not a chance

Moyes - A team on the rise with increasing profile

All three wouldn't come back to Scotland (i include Rangers re Moyes) unless desperate
15

Raskolnikov,

07/04/2008 05:47:10
Moyes fairly recently came out and said it is his avowed ambition to manage one of the big two Glasgow clubs. He would jump at the chance if offered the job at Celtic Park.
16

viking nz,

newzealand 07/04/2008 06:14:05
Well the preferbial has hit the fan , nice to see he does not have a clue , and sorry if Im blunt , but the writing was on the wall months ago for all to see , no tactics playing out of form players , some with no bottle for the hard slog , guys doing their stint in the reserves, no decent run , so bye bye gordon .
17

Thaitym,

Pakkred 07/04/2008 06:19:27
"Just an opinion" is right to point to Strachan's tactical successes. Even in the last game against Rangers the tactics were working in the first 30 minutes - had Celtic converted just one of the 4 very good chances we would all have been hailing Strachan's tactics of Samaras and VOH upfront even if it was Brown that had scored and the game and Celtic's season might have changed significantly. Later on the players (against Strachan's wish) started the business of just humping the ball up the park. And for those of you saying why not a 4 3 3 formation? Well it is at times that effectively because of the freedom midfield players get. It's just that the players aren't good enough under pressure and players in potential goalscoring situations aren't composed enough and the fans make it more difficult for them.

There's nothing wrong with Strachan or his tactics.

And Deek wondering why Strachan bought him when he knew he was a lousy tackler! This is a no brainer. You would have thought by now that players, especially young ones, would have realized that they are bought to be developed. Obviously Strachan saw in training and in the few times that Deek has been on the pitch that he isn't really willing to develop the tackling or tracking back side of his game. McGeady did and look were that got him - a regular first team place. Naka has improved his tracking back immensely. STrachan will develop Brown to be a great player.

Moreover, I don't think we can blame Strachan for making bad buys: We were all excited by his buying Graveson, Jarosik, Donati and some others. That they didn't turn out isn't Strachan's fault it's the players.



18

billylion67,

07/04/2008 06:39:40
Unlucky or stubborn? neither i'm afraid, plain truth is the job is beyond him now, with the fact that the footballing side of the club is going backwards, i know his side has qualified for the last 16 of the Champions league, and that's a fact! but, IMO the quality of Celtic's performances have been diminishing in the last two seasons in the Champions league, Strachan like Mcleish enjoyed the good fortune of qualifying with points totals, that were previously attained by other mangers, but other mangers did not have the same luck. Domestically, WGS has never risen to the footballing challenge, and pressures, which immediately came when Walter Smith took over at Rangers, and to many Celtic fans, myself included, it's been like watching a slow car crash, it finally came to end at Ibrox, when the Vehicle was a write off, and the driver was also killed. It's time to make a new investment in a new management team, i agree with the points about morale and motivation of players that Keltic has stated in his post, as for Mcdonald, i also agree a spell on the bench would be good for his big time charlie attitude. I hope WGS and the board have now come to the same conclusion, and a dignified exit for Strachan can be achieved, as it is clear that WGS management is now untenable with the supporters at the club, We can only hope the hunt for a new Manager has already begun. My first choice is Tony Mowbray, but, if West Brom get Promoted, i think he will be difficult to get, in Scotland Craig Levein would be worth a go, to say the least, perhaps a continental manger who has previous years of success and experience, like the ROI manger, Trappotini? what do my fellow Celtic fans think?

19

Media 1,

cape town 07/04/2008 06:39:46
I think WGS is being unfairly treated. I always said the Celtic fans would turn on him soon.
I blame Lawwell, Mr Sunbeams!
He could have spent the money, he could have bigger plans for Celtic, instead he kept the money in the biscuit tin and continued the Celtic trend of take take take....
20

billylion67,

07/04/2008 06:44:38
Some people argue that because he has already won two titles and reached the last sixteen in the Champions' League, Gordon Strachan is entitled to stay on.



However, history will tell you that there is no room for sentiment or failure where the Old Firm is concerned. Jock Stein, the greatest Celtic and Old Frim manager was replaced by Billy McNeill in 1978 - the season after winning the league and Scottish Cup double - and after securing ten league titles, a European Cup, and a host of other titles, during his glorious tenure.



Even the other lot sacked a manager whilst sitting top of the league, Can you believe that ? Well, it's true.



The fact is that Strachan appears to have lost the dressing room ( though not in the same way Le Guen did over the road) and seems unable to alter things on the field and make tough decisions. He has stood by JVoH, Donati, Naylor and Nakamura, even though it is apparent to every Celtic fan, that these players have been poor and contributed little.



McDonald's attitude when substituted yesterday, spoke volumes. Who the hell does the little Aussie midget think he is ? He's been in the door five minutes and thinks he is above reproach. Big Jock would have kicked his backside all the way down the London Road. Strachan should show some balls and drop him for the rest of the season. But of course, he won't.



Hate to say it, but Strachan has to go.



I'd play Hutchison and Samaras up front at Fir Park next week, just to see how they gel and perform. Robson should partner Hartley in midfield and O'Dea should replace Naylor...



for the time being.






21

numpty,

Dublin 07/04/2008 06:44:58
Was good to see all the "greatest fans in the world" staying right to the 93nd minute to support their team when their title hopes depended on it though, eh? (Not!)

GFITW my bahooky, as soon as things stop going their way they're no better than the rest of us. Mon the 'Well!
22

tomislav,

Serbian Loyal RSC 07/04/2008 06:56:06
It would be so easy to gloat but I will let it go ,,,,, just to say though I am mistified at just how poorly some of the guys you bought performed over the season (and to be honest, quite pleased also) anyway there is always next year
23

jdships,

07/04/2008 07:54:49
Bottom line here is surely that the OF have no devine right , as much as they think they have, to win every game !
Whenever they lose there always seems to be the usual excuses , "The manager" ," The refereee!", " the opposition were lucky" etc , etc.
How refreshing it would be if just one person, even, came on and said " the opposition scored more goals than us " , "we lost to a better team "
If pigs could fly - it's not in the nature of the beast apparently !!!!!!
24

Brad McAnn,

07/04/2008 07:59:20
After watching Charlie Richmond, join His mates, Satan McCurry & Stupid Dougal, in Their masonic decision-making "process," by GIFTING rangers TWO, count Them TWO goals yesterday, amongst other special dispensatiosn .... The corrupt Iain Blair's master-plan is still on track, although Dundee Utd once again had the audacity to derail it somewhat by making Celtic the team Who have conceded the LEAST Goals in the SPL

Celtic also have the Top Goal Scorer, no matter what the inbred Boydichenko might wish in His nightly black masses ....

It's True, by the way, that Wee Deeks is the Greatest non-playing Striker "on the planet," as is Bobo Balde .... We've all seen how They come on & light up Europe with Their 2nd-to-none skills .... How could They be overlooked so regularly !?!? ....

The way Bobo's thrown away Matches at KEY TIMES that have lost Us the League with 2 minutes to go, the UEFA Cup Final in extra time, not to mention qualifying for the last 16 with a hand ball .... When it doesn't matter Bobo's "Genuinely" magnificent .... When it matters most His particulat talent is LETTING YOU DOWN .... I'm Calling for His reinstatement right away ....

Derek Riordan's SELF-CONFESSED inability to track-back, is a real Credit to Him & He must be chosen right away for this excellent skill He has .... Regardless of How much back-stabbing He's prepared to do, He HAS had SEVERAL starts & NOT SCORED or ran-back after the ball when HE lost it .... What a GREAT Player !!!!

Derek Riordan is an EXCELLENT SHOT, other than that He's got HEE-HAW going for Him except hair-dos which the hairdresser cuts whilst sitting ON His Head ....

If this isn't a reason to sack double-champions-winning, double-last-16-in-a-row-in-Europe-achieving, double-cup-winnning, 3-rangers-managers-in-only-2-seasons-gubbing, wage-bill-dramatically-reducing, profit-maximising, over-all-age-by-a-DECADE-reducing, Gordon Strachan, then I DON'T KNOW WHAT Is !!!!
25

Brad McAnn,

07/04/2008 07:59:33
If We'd won last week against the minGers & then against Motherwell, We'd be Top of the League, gosh We're doing SO badly ....

P.S. For those Who can't count .... It turns out that We can Still win the League this Season .... Who Knew !?!?

As usual, I'll not be back to read Your anal ramblings & cringworthily unselfaware spineless clap trap, but feel free to hammer away with Your extra thumbs on each hand gimps .... Tara

Here's to THREE IN A ROW !!!!

HAIL HAIL !!!!
CHAMPIONEES !!!! CHAMPIONEES !!!!
26

eric,

07/04/2008 08:02:56
Rangers fans will be the 1st to tell you Gers are far from brilliant.Now that the league is over .Its time for clear out .Well done rangers in securing league against UTD
27

jaybe,

Glasgow 07/04/2008 08:06:16
The league, and any lingering doubts I had about Strachan's ability, was lost mid-season when he was playing Caldwell and/or Hartley as full backs.

No need to say any more than that.
28

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 08:19:24
The luck has run out.

I stayed till the 93rd minute on Saturday, we could have played another 93 minutes and not scored.

We have absolutely pummelled Motherwell, Aberdeen Dundee Utd and came away with little more than nothing. When we played the Celtic way in the first half against Rangers they were chasing our shadows.

The stats probably show that Celtic have the best defence in the land but their inability to prevent a goal a game eventually catches you out when the forwards are mis-firing.

I don't imagine the rangers fans will be gloating too much as they are a poor lot. Another gift of a back pass and 2 'dubious' off side decisions saved their blushes.
Dundee United showed the rest of us that if you get the ball on the deck and play them at football they are there for the taking, if only we hadn't resorted to route one stuff last Saturday we would have had a completely different set of headlines this morning.

I've backed Strachan up till now and will do until the end of the season, I find it difficulkt to justify him taking off the countries leading scorer when we needed a goal though.
29

revenger,

07/04/2008 08:22:01
Why does "Brad McCann" post the same two postings on every thread?
quote
>It's True, by the way, that Wee Deeks is the Greatest non-playing Striker "on the planet," as is Bobo Balde<

Bit of a statement that, a good head doctor could mibbees diagnose his problem from it.
30

revenger,

07/04/2008 08:32:58
chuckyhead you don't really have the ability to imagine what Rangers' fans will be doing, you don't know what you are doing yourself.
On a weekend when our best sceniario was to go 6 points clear with a GiH, and most of us were ready to accept 4, we went 7 clear after a great game, coming back 3 times, because your team lost to a first half goal and couldn't equalise against 10 men in the second half. You think you are better than us?
Where? attack, defence, mid-field or management?

Yes it would have been "completely different set of headlines this morning" if the results were different, but that can be said every Monday morning.

31

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 08:34:58
#40 My consolation is that i'd 100% rather be a sad Tim than a happy h*n.

How depressing to wake up of a morning with a 17th century mindset?

Mon the hoops
32

revenger,

07/04/2008 08:36:32
#42
You don't only have a 17th century mindset, you don't know which country you belong to.
33

obi,wan,

banana republic 07/04/2008 08:39:20
we'll swap w.g.s anytime you's want for frail.one ginger nut for another :}
34

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 07/04/2008 08:44:04
heres the thing..i have been ok with strachan ..as things have went wrong for the last couple of months his in ability to turn it round has been worrying.
his choice of team on saturday was suprising..and as ive said nakamura mcgeady donatti etc are not going to get you out of a hole..the forwards are completely firing blanks and the team displays little spirit..we are being slaughtered by the media and it would appear we are at a crossroads..now my point is that this is the time for strachan to prove he should stay as celtic manager...to win the league (deservedly) we need to beat rangers twice at parkhead..thats a give ..rangers would then need to draw 2 games .if we win all our games. strachan needs to show he can raise the team and pick the pl;ayers to do this..he cant afford to play the same players again on sunday (i know brown is already suspended..) and at the end bemoan their lack of finishing or ability to keep a clean sheet .if we havent won..he needs to put out a team that look willing to give everything for a victory at fir park..if celtic win their remaining games i would say it gives strachan another year..if the bland out of form players continue to get their chance and fail it suggests his time has come and gone..
35

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 08:44:14
#43 There is a difference to what YOU think or believe rather than what reality is.
36

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 07/04/2008 08:48:48
#37 with celtics rich history of playing midfielders at full back you must have lost patience with every celtic manager in their history x..and i think its worth saying that during this poor spell caldwell has been our best player...but hey its probably his fault that we have only scored in 2 of our last 7 games ..and that the majority of goals we are losing are coming from the left side of our defence..ie naylor and mcmanus area..
37

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 08:50:49
#46 Have to agree with that.

It's probably only a matter of getting a scabby deflected 1-0 win.

I'd be more worried if we were being over run or not actually making the chances but other than putting the ba in the net we are performing well.

The ba in the net bit is kinda crucial tho. Win the next two games any which way and it's game on. rangers have about 8 Dundee united type games before the end of the season and they certainly are not unbeatable..

BTW, What a dive by Boyd!!!!! Gordon Smith.....Were you watching?

'Course it wasn't offside. Hahahahaha.
38

The Diamond,

Glasgow 07/04/2008 08:53:19
I'm absolutely p!ssing myself reading this thread.

What a lot of brain dead losers!

You were told 10 days ago that you'd lose against Rangers and Motherwell.

It happened, get over it whinging MOPES.
39

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 07/04/2008 08:53:53
#49 those well know neutrtals billy dodds and chick young said he must have been "nicked" because boyd wouldnt go down so easily !!! fraser wishart woill be making a supportive announcement tomorrow..x
40

Fayneant,

NZ 07/04/2008 08:57:55
Kudos to Rasky to be smart enough to be the first Celtic fan to realise it's all over.

Gordon must stay...!

But if he doesn't, I hope Celtic PLC do not hire Davie Moyes, who will out-dour Walter Smith. Or Mark McGhee - who is a damned fine manager, but his play for the soon - be vacant Sellick hot-seat in the post match interviews is painfully apparent.
41

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 09:07:18
As I posted yesterday,Its not looking too rosy for the Hoops this term,but Until its ARITHMETICALLY impossible,I'll keep plugging away ;@)
Isn't that what being a fan is all about?

As for McGhee at CP...Lets see if the present incumbent has the stomach for a fight before we start to interview possible replacements.
42

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 09:22:28
BTO..How many Bears on here would,hand on heart,have believed Celtic throw away a league in the last two mins of a campaign?
With that in mind,I might be pissing into the wind but,hey! they are my troosers to get wet ;@)
As for the life policy..going by the stuff that's posted here by OF fans you have to have a life to have a policy...Just glad my hair is already grey...Might fall out in the next fortnight though...
43

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 09:31:03
BTO...Funnily enough,I've got my 'gers JU JU dolls all lined up with the pins sharpened...Who says we are bitter and twisted? LOL
44

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 07/04/2008 09:31:45
see the thing is wgs can still win the league but 90% of TGFITW are still calling for his head
IF (that's a very big if) the bears collapse in an exhausted heap and septic limp over the line does he become the messiah?
i think not -- he's never been celtc minded enough for half the support
i too feel sorry for him
in many ways he mirrors alex mcleish's time at ibrox
( only AM had a lot more dignity )
45

revenger,

07/04/2008 09:41:33
#58
exactly, this league isn't over, there are parallels to 2003 and 2005, except if strachan does it he will still go.
Maybe, like maghadinio, he needs to trawl his ancestry and contrive a foreign branch to the family tree.
46

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 07/04/2008 09:47:31
#57 zorro
ju ju doll and pins!!!
bitter and twisted!!
i'd believe it of idee fixee
but no you
song moment
the faith healer
life's a cycle
celtc are on the menstrual one

47

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 09:52:54
Before we go too far down this road..I couldn't give a flying about being "Celtic minded" and all that claptrap.The only criteria that should be addressed is the ability to produce a league winning side and progress in Europe.This season apart,GS had done that.

I'm no great fan of his style of management and team selection,especially of late,but to suggest that he is on his way out because of some perceived mistrust re his background beggers belief.

Throw enough mud and some will surely stick seems to be the order of the day from those that were bumping their gums about PLG attending midnight mass...Get a life will you!
48

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 09:55:17
#63 LOL..Just my little joke...

Song moment..The Searchers.."Needles and pins"...
49

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 09:56:05
BTO took a gander and as the late lamented Alex would say..."NEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXTTTTTTTT!"
50

revenger,

07/04/2008 09:57:59
#65
Don't remember anyone complaining about PLG going to midnight mass. He could have gone to Black Mass as far as Rangers' supporters are concerned as long as he got the results, which he didn't.
And the relevance to celtc-0 motherwell-1 is.....??
51

dannnnn,

Midlands 07/04/2008 09:59:23
As a celtic fan I cannot understand the constant refferals to Rangers being mediocre or boring or any of the other descriptions.

The facts are we have lost more points against teams other than Rangers, We have lost points to some and struggled to overcome St Mirren, Hibs, Gretna, Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Aberdeen. Its high time we woke up and smelled the coffee. The team has serious failings mainly movement off the ball and working for each other, usually a sign of problems behind the scenes.

Strachan has stood by players who simply have let him and us down, jvoh ( just one example) has been a disgrace/poor whatever, and is almost the first name on the team sheet! The message being sent out to players who must know themselves they are not cutting it is completely wrong.

What is the point of players playing well in the reserves with no chance of making it into the first team. No problem if the first team are doing the business but come on. I may be wrong but when Strachan actually used a fringe player Caddis(because he had to due to injuries)the result was a hungry player who worked his socks off and performed reasonably well.

A few goals will make a difference but they will not make us a good "team", we are a long way short of that and is has nothing to do with Rangers but everything to do with ourselves.
52

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 10:00:27
#70 as ever thist thread goes off at a tangent (No doubt we will be discussing Gs in relation to the Sub Prime loan fiasco in the Us before long!)I was merely trying to get rid of that old "Celtic minded" chestnut..and,of course opened another can of worms...OOOPS!
53

Starchief,

07/04/2008 10:01:56
Strachan has proved himself over the past few years, especially with regard to the Champions League. However, he seems to be stuck in a rut at the moment. He brought in a number of players but seems to basically stick with the same players, no matter how they perform. Even the likes of Robson and Samaras are not guaranteed a game if they play well. Nakamura still isn't back to his game but still plays every week. It took long enough for Donati to be dropped, yet when Sno played well, there was no extended run for him. As for not playing his most gifted finisher in Riordan...

He obviously just has faith in certain players and no faith in the rest. Eventually, that will come back to haunt you.
54

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 07/04/2008 10:08:14
d'artagnon
i agree it does beggar belief
but in reading these posts from the other side of the world
it sure seems that WGS has never been a favoured son
i really do feel for him
like mcleish
his non OF background hasn't done him any good
personally thought mcleish was very hard done by
although WS and co have turned bears around
ye cannnae argue wi results
play like real madrid and don't put the ball in the onion bag
success =$$$$$
55

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 10:12:02
#69 BTO..Only in London can the jostling of a Blue Peter presenter be described as a "riot"
Take away their Pret a Manger Ciabatta rolls and Skinny Lattes then it would be the end of civilisation as we know it! LOL
56

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 10:16:45
Was Jo Venglos, Wim Jansen or John Barnes 'Celtic Minded'? Jist wondered?
57

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 10:17:24
#76..It does seem that there is a sizable portion of the OF fanbase that likes nothing better than a right good moan.
GS has let slip a decent platform that looked like the blueprint for continued success and should expect criticism for that and that alone.
You rightly mentioned McLiesh having a similar rough ride.
Devil you do,devil you don't seems to be the watchword here...
58

Swordsman,

Dublin 07/04/2008 10:18:05
Gotta go...be back later to survey the damage LOL Have fun!
59

Zed's Dead,

07/04/2008 10:19:12
#72 dannnn - congrats on a reasoned approach. I would add one more thing. Where has the passion and the spark gone from the Celtic team? In the 30+ years I have been following football you were (almost) always guaranteed some fight from a Celtic team when faced with adversity. This for me is the single biggest issue facing the Celtic side today. Something is wrong. From what I heard of Saturday's match it did not seem like Celtic turned the screw to chase that essential goal even when they had almost a whole half against 10 men at home.
60

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 07/04/2008 10:19:15
have just had a gander at all posts and am amazed that the wee raskol was first on here wi the white flag
shame on you my son
hope the unit on the gold coast isnae above the second floor!!
61

Jo Jo,

07/04/2008 10:21:33
Strachan Must Stay
62

Jo Jo,

07/04/2008 10:28:12
#84

If i knew what you were on about i could answer you?
63

The Diamond,

Glasgow 07/04/2008 10:30:33
John Barnes was definitely sellick-minded, until he heard what happened to Mark Walters.

Barnesy is worth a second chance however as he showed he has more mettle than that Wee Chesney.

(S-p-l-u-t-t-e-r!)



64

Blou,

07/04/2008 10:32:46
#1 Three 'celtc minded' candidates with the most 'celtc minded' as your favourite. We all know what bunnet McCann said about 'celtc minded' when he was asked.

Very revealing piece.
65

revenger,

07/04/2008 10:39:43
# 78 CHUCKY,07/04/2008 10:16:45
Was Jo Venglos, Wim Jansen or John Barnes 'Celtic Minded'? Jist wondered?

How long did they last then?
66

Westendger,

Right by the fat lady as she warms up 07/04/2008 10:53:08
There's a surprising amount of dignity on this thread today, couldn't be anything to do with "Rankers" fans being oh too aware of the swings and roundabouts that is the Old Firm history? As for the suggestions about Strachan's replacement being either Keane, Mowbray or Moyes. Keane and Mowbray have no European experience, surely Celtic would want someone to at least maintain their recent good record in Europe?

Strachan had no European experience before Celtic and look at his first season! Do you want another Artmedia next year?

Davie Moyes is on record saying he wants to manage either side of the Old Firm but only after he's finished with Everton, which he regards as a work in progress. I can't see him walking away from Goodison now they've got a god squad and new training facilities (though I can't confirm if the indoor pitch is full sized or Chesney sized) but we'll see.

I think it's all hypothetical anyway as I think Chesney will stay to try and prove a point. The board will go with this and it will take another bad season, or at least a bad start to force the board to listen to TGFITW.

As for Brad McCann's witty ditty, could you tell me which 3 Rangers managers Chesney has "gubbed". I believe Walter's record to date is perfect!

In Walter We Trust
67

Jealousy,jealousy,

07/04/2008 11:00:31
It always tickles me when Celtc fans label us anti-football. The whole point of the game is to score goals. We have scored more league goals and also scored more in Europe.

Posters such as Chucky can bleat away about creating chances all they like. It matters not a jot. Goals win games,the rest is unimportant.
68

The Diamond,

Glasgow 07/04/2008 11:01:53
I'd like to know why the return of the Lurgan Bigot failed to give sellick a much needed boost.

I'd also like to know what is happening to the shrinking sellick support.

Not very encouraging for next year.
69

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 11:15:49
#94 My post #49 "I'd be more worried if we were being over run or not actually making the chances but other than putting the ba in the net we are performing well.

The ba in the net bit is kinda crucial tho."

Dundee Utd must be wondering what they have to do to beat you, not passing the ball to your centre forward would help and some 'rub of the green' where 'offside' decisions are concerned.

I think the stats after an hour were 18 Utd. attempts to 5 rangers but ba in the net is the name of the game.

All the top 6 will have watched how poorly rangers play against 'football' teams, get the ball on the deck and work at pace through the middle and rangers look ponderous.

We did it first half last week and even though you got the goal I was confident of the win but the route one rubbish we played in the second half was exactly the game rangers can defend against.

I hope Celtic get a decent result against Motherwell next week to go into the twin rangers fixtures with fight and desire to win.
70

Celtic Fan Steven,

07/04/2008 11:18:20
Diamond, Shut yer pus.

Just like to say that Saturday was the nail in the coffin, and point out to people that we are still on course to finish the season at least 20pts behind the scum.

When this happens, Strachan will have to go, either forcefully or willingly. Either way I don't care.

Boab "FTP" Malcom was sent off on 50 mins, yet we continued to play 4 defenders until 5 mins from the end. WTF???

Then to sub McDonald, when everyone can see that JVoH is doing less that him. Why take off a striker when you havn't scored a goal for 5 matches????

Surely what you do is put more strikers on!!

Rangers had 4 forwards on yesterday and scored 3 goals to stay in the match. If that was Celtic, we would have lost 3-0.

Glad to see Derek riordan putting the boot in on Sunday. Someone needs to.

71

Jo Jo,

07/04/2008 11:24:19
The meltdown has started.

To the Car Park Declan!!!!!!
72

Jealousy,jealousy,

07/04/2008 11:25:53
#96 Chucky

I actually agree with you there mate. It worries me that lesser teams such as DU and Celtc can pass us off the pitch for spells of the game. Still, i will be reserving my judgement until the summer when Smith's signing targets become clear.
"Phase 1" of Smith's rebuilding plan is complete. He has completely re-vamped the squad and made us hard to beat. Even he will be surprised at the success he has had this season, i dont think we would have expected to win the title in the first season.
We will spend 10-15 m on 3-4 players in the summer,adding some much needed quality to the side. I for one will be expecting much more next season.
The fact that we have done so well in a transitional period should be greatly admired though.
73

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 11:31:37
#95 Strange comment, not seen the figures but it looked a full house to me on Saturday, even though there were only 150-200 Motherwell supporters we took up what they didn't sell.

I will probably not renew next year. I travel up from England to the games, two years ago we had 6 season book games from the 19 played midweek, I will still go to games but i'll buy a ticket instead.

This year we had the SFA cancelling a Saturday home game and putting it midweek. The SPL give us a midweek fixture in the middle of February against ICT, how thoughtless is that?

Funny how rangers (programmed) midweek fixtures are always away, must save their club (and supporters) a fortune.
At the very least it negates the 10000 capacity advantage Celtic over have rangers when we have a midweek home league game.
74

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 07/04/2008 11:34:36
#88..the plg situation at ibrox was meltdown jojo...i can understand why your confused..
#100..interesting that both the old firm seem to do better "in transition" these days
as ive said this is make or break for me over strachan...if he can use this "low" to get his team to come out fighting and win all our games until the end of the season then id give him the benefit of the doubt..if the plays the same players..and they play in their recent apathetic felling sorry for themselves way then id move into the replace him camp..(mcgeadys bodylanguage the moment motherwell scored was defeated...thats not good enough cowards have no place at celtic park.
75

Jo Jo,

07/04/2008 11:35:13
#102

It's the big bad Rangers fault yet again.

What a paranoid MOPE you really are.

Better off staying in England than poisoning this country with your hate filled bile.
76

CHUCKY,

07/04/2008 11:45:45
#100 The consoling factor for me is that Walter Smith will be in charge of any money Murray is dishing out.
He is a one trick pony, his teams cannot play any other way.

I give him credit for being 'hard to beat' if they get a goal ahead then it is extremely difficult to play against a team that purely destroy football.

The Italians called it cattenachio and the Greeks won the Euro Champs with it, whether you'd pay to go and see that, then thats your choice.

He hasn't changed one bit since his last term here, what is his record in Europe, one win in the last 9 or something like that?

Smith has his template and sticks to it, that is not a criticism it is plain to see that he is having measured success at the moment.

Strachan to his credit is trying to get the Celtic team playing the Celtic way but with individuals who have not been able to match his ambitions but at the end of the day he carries the can.
77

Impartial,

Tayside. 07/04/2008 11:58:13
Whatever the rights and wrongs of opinions about Gordon Strachan, Derek Riordan and Bobo Balde, something undeniable has happened at Celtic Park, that has to be addressed.
Too many players are not now playing for the manager.
And when that happens, no matter who is at fault, there are only two solutions, the manager must be changed or the team.
History in football tells us that's it's much easier to sack the manager than the team but until the Celtic board face up to that choice, the situation will worsen.
The Riordan scenario has been clearly spelled out this weekend and the body language between the manager, Scott Brown and Scott McDonald is self explanatory.
Over to you Dermott.
78

Jo Jo,

07/04/2008 12:04:23
Same scenario unfolding at Celtic as was witnessed in Advocaat's last season.
Only one outcome which is a shame as i would love Strachan to stay and waste even more "profit" on players like Gravesen,Donatti,VoH,Riordan,Jarosik,Caldwell,Naylor,
Wilson,Pressley etc etc
79

dannnnn,

Midlands 07/04/2008 12:05:26
81, it gives me no pleasure to admit what is obvious. I am a season ticket holder and it costs me probably £200 per game with loss of earnings and fuel costs, what is supposed to make me keep coming up to watch the games? I will of course but it is no fun at all when everyone is just so frustrated at us being unable to play any kind of intelligent football.

We bring up the gulf in earnings between us and the champions league contenders like Barca whn they play us off the park, but there is a similar gulf between the other SPL teams (other than Rangers) and us but we never really dominate any of the teams we play in the league when we should really. This is all down to workrate and lack of intelligence/tactics/movement take your pick.

We have some decent players but we are also very one dimensional, few celtic supporters if they are honest will have any confidence for the other upcoming matches never mind the two Rangers games