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MSP refuses to stand down over Labour donations crisis

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Published Date: 08 December 2007
CHARLIE Gordon, the MSP at the centre of the donations controversy engulfing the Scottish Labour Party has pledged to stay on despite calls for him to quit.
Mr Gordon, a former leader of Glasgow City Council, accepted two donations from Jersey-based businessman Paul Green, claiming he was unaware that the £950 donations were illegal because Mr Green is not registered in the UK to vote.

The controversy has plunged the Scottish Labour Party into crisis and threatened the future of its new leader, Wendy Alexander, whose campaign for the leadership benefited from one of the payments.

When the allegations first emerged, it was revealed that Mr Gordon had secured the donations and the MSP was widely expected to quit - particularly after Mr Green said he was reassured by Mr Gordon that both donations were above board.

Yesterday, however, the MSP for Glasgow Cathcart, who has quit as Scottish Labour's transport spokesman, said he would remain in post until an investigation by the Electoral Commission was completed.

Although Mr Gordon has distanced himself from the Labour Party, his decision to stay on averts a potentially damaging by-election and also leaves the possibility of a sacrificial lamb to take the heat once the Electoral Commission's investigation is complete.

In a video statement on his website, www.charlesgordonmsp.com Mr Gordon reiterated his claim of innocence. He said: "Last week, I realised I had unwittingly made serious errors in connection with two political donations of under £1,000.

"I immediately alerted and apologised to those whom I had unwittingly misled and resigned as shadow transport minister.

"I also reported the matter to the Electoral Commission and they are now in dialogue with me, so I can't say any more."

Mr Gordon, 56, went on to defend his local-government record. He said he had helped regenerate Glasgow, but "snide innuendoes" had been made about gifts and hospitality, business trips and planning consents.

Mr Gordon also thanked his constituents for their support and said he would await the Electoral Commission's report before making further career decisions.

However, Sandra White, the SNP list MSP for Glasgow, said:

"It is clear Charlie Gordon is not prepared to walk the plank for his Labour colleagues [or] take the blame for Team Alexander's illegal actions.

"Wendy Alexander and her team have admitted accepting illegal donations. It is not credible for those involved in Wendy Alexander's campaign to claim innocence and keep their jobs."

Ms White also accused Labour of not wanting to fight a by-election in Cathcart because of the SNP's high opinion poll ratings.

If the SNP was to take one more seat from Labour, it would give Alex Salmond a majority of three seats over the second-biggest party, as opposed to the present one-seat margin.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 December 2007 10:49 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Political Funding
 
1

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 01:17:55

The law has been broken, by their own admission, but no one is taking responsibility. This Labour sleaze is damaging to all Scottish politics - they should go, now.

2

druidh,

08/12/2007 01:21:52

Another one using the pseudo-legal excuse that he can't talk as the Electoral Commission are looking at this. More dishonesty - but no more than we've come to expect.

3

,

08/12/2007 01:23:36
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4

,

08/12/2007 01:24:11
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5

Senga Jean,

Scotland 08/12/2007 01:29:23

Labour tried to screw the SNP by making certain donations illegal. They were caught out. Hell mend them!

6

somerferg,

oz 08/12/2007 01:30:43

Look closely at the picture people - would you buy a second hand car from this man??

7

jj,

08/12/2007 01:30:57

A politician won't resign. Why the shock?

8

urban poacher,

08/12/2007 01:32:59

3 and 4 copied it out so that still have it when the Labour run Scotsman deletes it

9

MtnKat,

08/12/2007 01:34:27

#7 jj
No shock. Business as usual for the Dementors.

10

MtnKat,

08/12/2007 01:35:14

Away to Azkaban with the lot of them.

11

,

08/12/2007 01:36:53
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12

,

08/12/2007 01:38:14
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13

Ronnie W,

The Far Blue Yonder 08/12/2007 01:41:07

Why am I not in the least surprised by this, the latest exhibition of total contempt for the public, the law, the political process, and the institution of Parliament?

One could ask for no better illustration of everything that is wrong with the Labour establishment......I was going to say "in Scotland", but the cancer has spread far further than that.

The only thing which remains to be seen is whether the law in Scotland is equal to the task of countering this degeneration of civic society. The action - or, rather, the inaction - of the police to date in spite of the fact that they have recieved a number of complaints from the public does not bode well for the rule of law in this country.

If action, and firm action, is not taken quickly against this self confessed breaker of the law then a clear signal will have been sent to the ordinary citizen - breaking the law is acceptable behaviour. Even being caught breaking the law is acceptable so long as you have the defence that it was "a misunderstanding enacted in good faith", with the proviso that you have the backing of the labour party, and the brass neck to stand up in public and say : "Aw right, Jimmie. Ah dun i', but um urnae gonae gie up ma joab. So whi' ur YOU gonae dae uboot i'?"

"See you, Gordon. Gie's a brek, pal."

The rot has to be stopped at some point if society is not to degenerate into anarchic chaos or a fascist state (Too strong? I don't think so.) Charlie Gordon would be a good place to start. He is issuing a challenge here. Is Scottish society up to meeting that challenge?

14

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 01:44:40

Labour have a long and proud tradition of selecting half-wits as candidates and they were mostly succesful.

But they would have wise to have drawn the line at Charlie Gordon...he has just owned up to being an un-wit.

15

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 01:48:44

'---particularly after Mr Green said he was reassured by Mr Gordon that both donations were above board."
Mr Gordon reiterated his claim of innocence. He said: "Last week, I realised I had unwittingly made serious errors in connection with two political donations of under £1,000.---'

16

MtnKat,

08/12/2007 01:59:48

14 Col
It doesn't hurt when half wits are backed by corrupt election officials.
Amazing how the name Alexander springs to mind in either case.

17

Bill, Dunblane,

08/12/2007 02:17:18

Aye, doonhamer, 3,4,11 - ye'r on form the night!

But I do fear your posts will be censored.

Keep up the good work.

18

An Australian of Scottish Ancestry,

08/12/2007 02:22:49

This reminds me of that little incident that occurred almost a decade ago involving a certain Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.

Remember when old Arkansas Bill postured himself and declared to the world that he "[had] not [had] sexual relations with that woman - Monica Lewinsky?"

Gordon is up to his forehead in it, and he is frantically attempting to wriggle his way out of the noose. He and Wendy are reprehensible, and the two of them must go.

By the way, AM2! Thankyou very much for having the politeness to answer the question that I put to you on Thursday! I know that you received a very entertaining onslaught from the Doonhamer, but it still would have been courteous to impart a reply.

19

TommyKaye,

UK 08/12/2007 02:29:39

Fantastic let him stay as long as he wants, they are so myopic they cannot see the lasting damage they are doing to their party and they show themselves as egoistic, egoistical, egomaniacal, greedy, mercenary, miserly, narcissistic, narrow, narrow-minded, parsimonious, prejudiced, self-centered, self-indulgent, self-interested, self-seeking deluded assinine idiots.

The majority of whom have never had a real job either let him stay I say so we can all laugh and point at the feckless, fruitless, futile, good-for-nothing, hopeless, idle, impracticable, impractical, incompetent, ineffective, ineffectual, inept, inoperative, inutile, meaningless,politician.

Stay you ninny stay

20

An Australian of Scottish Ancestry,

08/12/2007 02:32:19

Doonhamer,
Your comments at #3-4 are worthy of publication! I have to be careful not to let my Black Isle Ale go down the wrong way with laughter!

It's funny 'cause it's true - well, close enough! That's great!

21

Bad Yin,

Pondering the Perils of Incomers 08/12/2007 02:40:33

Attention being drawn away from Wendy? Funny how all the labourites (north and south) are spouting about transparency while keeping schtuum. Hiding behind an electorlal commission that will, no dloubt, stall untill Christmas eve before issuing an opinion. Aye - transparecy - grand.

22

Auckland Arab2,

08/12/2007 02:44:51

Agree with the above. Don't resign - you are doing a far better job hanging on and further damaging the totally discredited circus act that is New Labour Parody. Keep up the good work

23

bendy arsexaminer,

labrador hq 08/12/2007 02:45:10

i did nothing intentionally wrong. i deeply regret belsen, auswitz and buchenwald and can tell you that the clerks who were resonsible will be ask, ed to resign for at least one week, or exterimated as better covers my tracks. like the man in the canoe i cannot rememeber breaking the law or ordering zyklon b. i'm sorry bit i really cannot comment any further as the matter has been handed over to the gestapo who will investigate these heinous alleagtions thoroughly before fully exonorating me - just as my brother dumbkopt arseaminer was exonorated for fixing the election to the reichstag. anyone who thinks differently will be tracked down through their id card and invited for a shower.

24

FrancesP,

08/12/2007 03:09:02

Charlie Gordon 'thanking his constituents for their support' is rather like Tony Blair thanking the British public for their wonderful support over the Iraq War.

And how precisely do you 'unwittingly' convince yourself that a personal cheque from Paul Green somehow came from a company he didn't even own? Mr Green was apparently just a client of the company in question. If I sent Mr Gordon a personally-signed cheque, would he automatically assume it had actually come from my hairdressers?

And his answers to all these rather difficult questions are...? "Blah blah electoral commission blah blah blah, so alas, I can say no more." Well, I'm sure we all buy that.

25

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

08/12/2007 03:37:35

Charlie Gordon stays on to become the sacrificial lamb when the commission reports. This will allow the leader, mutton dressed up as lamb, to continue.

A sorry day for politics but indicative of the way the Labour party view thier electorate.

They are a bit like George W Bush. They don't believe reports that are true and discount reports that are true.

26

Stanley Unwin,

with the other Inmates at HMP Keir Hardie House 08/12/2007 05:01:13

Funny how after all the days of not being able to debate on WINDY the Scotsman now allows us to comment on Chazza.

The Rev above hits the nail on the head.

The New Labour Parody in their acolytes in Scotsman Publication are going to allow the Chazza to be hung out to dry, whilst Windy carries on as if nothing has happened.

The best Chrizza prezza Chazza could have given us was resignation.

2 cyber-fingers to New Labour - I electronically-fart in their general direction.

27

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

Got to read this 08/12/2007 05:44:03

Wendy, Gordon and co are all Z minuses from their lessons then?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article301...

28

Pete39,

Tassy 08/12/2007 05:53:56

Stay in the job Charlie, your constituents voted for you and your so called crime would have, in Tasmania, achieved the back page of some local free newspaper. Everbody has the odd complaint about politicians, in Tasmania it is the deputy premiere being accused of fixing his mates up with a guaranteed million dollar company, and the debt for unfunded government pensions has reached two billion dollars. Just people whingeing. I mean at my age, I will be dead before the crunch comes.

29

,

08/12/2007 05:54:21
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30

Pete39,

Tassy 08/12/2007 06:05:22

I forgot to mention that we are possibly one of the least wealthy of Australian states and the population is under 500,000. You really have to have dedication before you achieve those kind of results.

31

Boaby Dazzler,

08/12/2007 06:05:56

Charlie Gordon wasn't he the poor dimwitted guy in "Flowers for Algernon"?

32

Pete39,

Tassy 08/12/2007 06:14:54

Have to get used to the way comments are displayed. My first comment was that Charlie Gordon should stick by his constituents and not resign in that Australian politics are far more exciting. At present we have the deputy premiere of Tasmania accused of fixing his mates up with million dollar company, which is interesting but not exciting, and the unfunded government superannuation reaching two billion dollars. which is not too exciting either since at my age I will most likely be dead before the crunch comes. I am going to try fishing down the west coast, now they reckon that could be exciting.

33

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

08/12/2007 06:49:40

29

When law makers become lawbreakers is accurate.

The state paid 180,000gbp to teach the Labour govt what is and what is not permissable in terms of party funding. They still got it wrong.

They are incompetent.

34

Advance Alba,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 07:08:40

We're missing the point here. The questions now are: have the police launched an investigation? Have they seized PCs? Have they interviewed anybody? Has a senior officer been assigned to lead the investigation? What is his/her name? Are they waiting until all the evidence is destroyed?
People have admitted to crime being committed, complaints have been made by members of the piblic and it is all over the press. What is Inspector McPlod doing about it?
That is where we should all be looking now. Is there some conspiracy going on between the Labour mafia and the Stratchldye Police?

35

I'm no really here,

08/12/2007 07:48:36

Great. This will come back and haunt them. Bendy Wendy has no more credibility. She is the best leader of Labour the SNP has ever had. Even better than Hurricane Jeck.

36

Cadgers,

Perth 08/12/2007 07:58:27
37

Gary Miller,

South Africa 08/12/2007 08:02:19

See you, Gordo, yer nuthin' but a greazy slimy wee labour wurm. F off ya wee r*tbag (as a Glaswegian and former city coonseler, he'll have no problems understanding my sentiments, even though he's fae the soo' side). That labour gang are a total embarrassment - look at you, desperately trying to hang on to your MSP wage packet. You stink.
Gman

38

Boy Wonder,

08/12/2007 08:38:27

Gordon won't resign and will not be allowed to. No matter how many Labour MSPs are caught red-handed with their sticky fingers in the cash register ... they won't be allowed to resign, because of by-elections ... and losing the seat to another party.

And which party stands to gain most? Yup! The one holding minority power. Labour can't abide the thought of losing out particularly to Alex & co.

That's why they don't care if they do get caught out in their sleazy tricks department. They'll own up, but try to obfuscate the issue and hang on to their seats!

39

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 08:39:37

Funny - I thought wee Wendy is the politician at the centre of the donations controversy. Is the Scotsman (sic) doing a Pravda and rewriting history at the behest of their political masters on the NuLaybur politburo? Surely not, look at the founders' declaration that it publishes and allegedly follows?

40

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 08/12/2007 08:44:46

posted dis een in Herald but it's owre guid no ta dae it twice!


"A'm no a man: A'm a Glasgow Baillie"

fae "The Glasgow Clincher", March 1898, page 3.

Plus ca change!!

41

Sarcasm,

08/12/2007 08:56:28

re the picture.

Someone should tell him he really needs a finger in both ears whilst muttering "I'm not listening."

42

Ultramontanian,

Newlands, by Jersey 08/12/2007 08:58:38

What have we the voters of cathcart & newlands done to deserve this?

First we got Lord Mike fire raiser Watson as our MSP, then we have Charlie Chump parachuted in to replace him.

Charlie boy should confirm whether or not he used Paul Green's money for his own electoral purposes, either when first elected or last May.

If he did, he should immediately resign and let us have a by election where frankly I would support any other candidate before I ever trusted Labour again.

No wonder the turn out in this constituency has dropped so much in the last 10 yrs

43

Stephen101,

Charlie 'Fingers' Gordon 08/12/2007 09:04:21

I am amazed that The Scotsman is allowing us to comment on the illegal activities of Labour politicians.

Reading Finger's website he mentions claims of backhanders and bungs while he was at Glasgow City Council. These must be prolific if he is choosing to bring them into a more public domain. And he has received a dozen letters of support! How many thousand voted for him? Talk about being disowned.

Politics is a tough old life. You mess up before you are 'up there' then you are the lamb to be sacrificed.

I think Charlie has to accept he is a goner. Using the word 'meanwhile' to describe how long he will remain MSP for Cathcart says it all.

But as for Wendy, if Charlie goes then Wendy must, as she obviously was as thick in the corrupt mire as he was. If when he goes Charlie thinks he is going for good, he will probably ensure he will take Wendy (at least) with him.

44

Stephen101,

Cathcart 08/12/2007 09:12:42

#44 "What have we the voters of cathcart & newlands done to deserve this?"

Answer: To blindly vote labour. If TAM "THE LICENSEE" MCGRAW had stood for Labour he would have been voted in.

I wonder sometimes about the difference between underworld characters like this (McGraw I mean) and some Labour MSPs. One obvious difference is that the MSPs have spin doctors. Anything else you can think of?

45

Fergus Lamont,

Another Country 08/12/2007 09:22:40

23.

Fergus writes: At least I have an excuse, given differing time zones, but I suspect that ‘New SNP’ Trolls such as “Wendy – what an amusing moniker” (2:45am 8 Dec 2007) and ‘her’ ilk have no lives to speak of, that they have to sit up into the wee smal’ hours - night after night - bashing away trite “comment” on as many unrelated stories as possible.

Is there some sort of pissing contest that goes on amongst these types, to see who can spin the daftest yarn first?

Do they all have a wee handbook, giving theme tips on pithy witticisms – “MEIN BAMFF” perhaps?

Narrow nationalism, personal nastiness and ignorance posing as “comment” – should make us all worried.

My heart sinks when I read newspapers on-line and I see hundreds of “comments” – who have usually nothing more to say than to repeat the impotent bile from their cronies.

Anyone with remotely opposing views is berated – tarred and feathered with a “Unionist” brush!
“Nationalism” is being redefined in Scotland – intolerant, hate-fuelled, bigoted, craven and exclusive.

Scotland is in danger of sleep walking towards abyss where: misogyny; questioning a women’s right to chose; questioning measures to address homophobic bullying; openly buying political influence on issues from Golf courses to airbrushing re-regulation of buses from manifestos, is happening - here and now!

Pride in one’s country and the Saltire have been hijacked, in much the same way that the British National Party have done with the Union Jack!

46

JayJay,

08/12/2007 09:28:30

I am no Perry Mason, but I have spotted at least 3 instances where Charlie boy has been economical with the actualite!

"Last week, I realised I had unwittingly made serious errors in connection with two political donations of under £1,000."
Actually no. Wasn't it reported that the other donation for Gordon's election campaign had been flagged as potentially ropey at the latest in early November, and possibly as early as the summer?

"I immediately alerted and apologised to those whom I had unwittingly misled and resigned as shadow transport minister."
Errr, this is again inconsistent with statements made last week. From memory, the story broke at the start of the week, having been originally questioned in the infamous email/spreadsheet'gate and it took Charlie until Thursday to take the blame...errr sorry, fall on his sword. Nothing "immediate" about that.

"I also reported the matter to the Electoral Commission and they are now in dialogue with me, so I can't say any more."
As I understand it, this matter is not sub-judice, so you most certainly can comment.

The continued willingness of these characters to stick two fingers up at the electorate, whilst their noses grow ever longer is breathtaking. Last week, the adjective of choice was "intentional" - this week, it is "unwitting". Do they honestly believe playing around with language fools anyone?

Labour has now completed the cycle which started with Tony Blair promising to end years of Tory contempt for the electorate. Now, 10 years on, we have the sort of behaviour perfected by Tory minister after Tory minister being enthusiastically embraced by Labour. I am prepared to bet that, when the dust settles, Wendy will stay on, Charlie will resign, and, in due course, we will have the wholly unedifying spectacle of the appointment of Lord Charlie of Jersey.

47

bus user,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 09:30:52

Only 09:30 and already 48 comments? Charlie should take that as a measure of the affection in which he's held. I know I sound like a stuck record with this, but this is just another West of Scotland Labour Establishment figure, not coping with the reality of opposition. The by-election that took this creature to Holyrood was a dirty-tricks campaign and a half. Just do a bit of digging, Scotsman, and see what's there. Try speaking to some of the other parties' candidates and ask them if they felt intimidated or not.

48

Black Five,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 09:50:05

They`re a bunch of cheating .lying scumbags and I hope the public will remember this well next election time.

49

SPG,

08/12/2007 09:56:05

Won't make a bit of difference. History has proven the morally corrupt system will always attract morally corrupt scum. Plenty more of this sort of thing to come.

50

The true Seeker of the Truth,

at home, waiting to read AM2's posts... 08/12/2007 10:09:40

Didn't anyone else watch Have I Got News For You last night? They ripped Alexander to pieces; she's toast. As is the ned Gordon...

51

Mikey,

08/12/2007 10:11:38

One thing that troubles me about this whole affair is the silence from L&B and Strathclyde's finest. We have at least two people who have admitted to committing a crime, yet there is no movement from either force. Not even a mention of the case being 'sub judice' and therefore not commentable.

Is this being investigated? Where are the raids to revocer HDDs? Why are the self confessed criminals not being investigated? W+e have a situation here where the lawmakers are admitting lawbreaking, yet the police are sitting on their hands. Why?

52

Jambo 7,

East of Glasgow 08/12/2007 10:19:02

I am not affiliated to any political party and really have little respect for politicians. They are mainly self serving individuals with little interest in helping the people and more interested in helping themselves. Look at the expenses they claim as legitimate. As MSPs they think that they are members of an exclusive club with priviliges way beyond what can be regarded as reasonable.

I really hope Gordon gets his come uppance and is discarded into the wilderness where he belongs.

An example must be made not just of him but them all including Alexander and Whitton. For too long politicians have considered themselves as untouchable and are without doubt absolute hypocrits. So I truly hope that the right actions are taken against them (prison) and we can begin to weed out the morally corrupt individuals attracted to politics. There is no doubt that a massive cover up operation has swung into action for damage limitation purposes that is based on lies, damn lies and fabrication. Who are they trying to kid? They must think that we, the electorate, are all buttoned up the back.

53

Jambo 7,

East of Glasgow 08/12/2007 10:28:14

THERE HAS TO BE A POLICE INVESTIGATION WITH CONVICTIONS!!!!!!

OTHERWISE ITS A WHITEWASH JOB BY POLITICIANS YET AGAIN.

THEY MAY CON AND MANIPULATE THE LAW ENFORCERS BUT THEY AINT FOOLING THE ELECTORATE.!

54

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 08/12/2007 10:29:18

Not really much to say today as 'doonhamer' has covered it all.

Nice piece of writing! Well Done!

55

drake's drum,

North Britain 08/12/2007 10:34:18

Strathclyde's top cops are usually busy listening to see if someone makes any verbal comment which could - potentially - give any offence whatsoever to someone in any minority group.

As honest politicians are now very much a minority group, why haven't htey arrested Alexander and Gordon for offence to minorities?

Perhaps we should use Customs & Excise Officers under CITES as they are more probably an endangered species! Oops, C&E are now part of HMR&C, and so have probably lost all their discs...

56

Purlie Wilson,

Melbourne Australia 08/12/2007 10:40:59

39 Pete
Lived on the West Coast of Tassie when men were men.

Fishing off the West Coast of Tassie will be exciting, kip down at Strahan and have few coldies..enjoy!

57

Purlie Wilson,

Melbourne Australia 08/12/2007 10:43:21

Whoops make that post 32 for Pete

58

Homo Sapiens,

08/12/2007 10:47:44

Law was broken, by their own admission. Bendy Wendy and her group of self-serving liars and cheats should go now!

59

Jock MacTamson,

Highlands 08/12/2007 11:07:50

They are corrupt self seving lying criminals who think the people are stupid enough to believe this excuses. Just because your friends in the media report it favourably do not think anyone at all thinks the total pish you speak has any bearing on the truth.

It is clear the intention was to receive donations below the threshholds for reporting and break their own rules.

There are so many ways they could have achieved the same result in a totally legal maner. This is what worries me. They are that thick they cannot even work that out. The Inland revenue leaves many methods of moving around such small sums of money.

These people were supposed to be reviewing legislation.


Scotland wake up. A government with Scottish Values who are representing the Scottish people not some Trade Union or London Labour drone.

I would assume that no work was done this week by labour in Scotland as they have been backdating their PC's, recreating their Documents, upgrading their new HDD, spilling paint on them all catching viruses that have deleted large parts, etc, etc.

Everyone knows it is a sham.

60

whitegold,

Shire 08/12/2007 11:15:10

As Labour continue to cover up & lie, they are causing more anger against them. That's why people tend to resign - a line is drawn under the event and we move on. Labour aren't lancing the boil - so it will continually drip drip.

I suppose they think that the electorate are stupid and will forget everything in a few years time.

If everyone is so innocent then why did Labour claim Green donated through a UK company? He so obviously didn't that Labour's assertion was evidently cover up & lies. Then Wendy's personal letter, the spreadsheet etc.

No-one but an imbecile believes Labour is innocent in this affair.

61

Rasco,

08/12/2007 11:20:46

NEWS HEADLINES Lie detector catches benefits cheats could it be used for anyone else?????????????

62

Karin M,

08/12/2007 11:50:10

So we can comment on charlie gordon but we cannot comment on wendy alexander. I do not see what the difference is regarding comment on these two issues. If we cannot comment on wendy alexander because of legal issues then one would think that the same legal issues would apply in this case. Or is it in fact just that the scotsman does not want negative comments about wendy alexander.
These two politicians have both admitted that they broke election law unwittingly(charlie) unintentionally (wendy). The law has been broken they should both be charged. As should those at westminster. I beleive that the two issues although similar are completely different at westminster they have taken donations that are not allowed but in westminster they have not adhered to the letter of the law the actual donor was legal it was the way he donated which was illegal while in scotland they have completely disregarded the law as they took money from someone it is comepletley illegal to take it from and they purposely kept the donation under 1000 so as to avoid being found out. To me it may be less of a sum involved than westminster but it is a greater crime.

63

Calum10,

08/12/2007 11:56:51

When you see those who have admitted their criminal guilt stand up in public and excuse themselves in this way then you know that the level of curruption extends far and wide in public life in Scotland.

Where are the police?

Where is the Electoral Commission?

Charlie Gordon has admitted to not one but two acts of criminality. Why has this man not been arrested, questioned and charged for breaking the criminal law?

There is now one one law for Labour politcians, party members and party donors and another for everyone else in Scotland.

Join the Labour party and enjoy a life of crime without any punishment.

64

Methspain,

08/12/2007 12:04:51

Well apparently we can now comment on this so I'll return with my pearls of wisdom.

Regarding "ethics." Wendy was asked about this and said it was an English county.

65

Tweedmouth,

08/12/2007 12:04:56

The face of contorted apoplectic rage says it all. This slimy scumbag has been lining his pockets for years and even when he's caught red-handed the hopes to 'touigh it out' like Wendy.

George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' says it all. when the PIGS finally get to be masters of the farm and prove even worse than the humans they replaced. Take another look at that evil face and ask yoiurself:
"Which animal does this most remind me of?"

66

Ananurhing,

08/12/2007 12:16:00

"Unintentional"," Inadvertant",
Utter tosh!
He was warned about dodgy donations two years ago. He solicited these donations, knowing where they came from. He then tried to hide them behind CPS. Even Paul Green couldn't believe the folly and the audacity of such a cack handed move. Scottish Labour are starting to look like an embattled Burmese junta.
Breathtaking arrogance that they would even consider that they could wing this one.
Tis the curse of Cathcart! Ask Lord Watson.

67

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 08/12/2007 12:19:23

This is the News:

- The search goes on, within New Labour, to find a new leader. An inside source said it is was proving difficult to someone to take over who is not corrupt. "We identified a partially deaf lollipop man who has been a member for fifty years and who has never done anything wrong but then it turned out that his wife had aquired a bigger council house through her local labour connections." The search goes on.

- Next, Scottish police services are preparing to take action to achieve pay rises and extra police officers to cope with increasing work loads. A spokesman said: "As we can't go on strike, we have no other option but to instigate a go slow on certain crimes such as electoral fraud."

- It seems that the value of honours has gone down. In our special report we interviewed some holders of CBEs and discovered that they are returning the honours. When asked why, the one said: "before these would get you a seat at a top restaurant without needing a reservation, now all you get is young ladies and even boys offering weekend specials."

- A new shopping centre has been granted planning consent in Glasgow. Speaking for the project a Mr. Green said: "this will benefit the people of the city and no profit would be made whatsover." A spokesman for the opposition said: "this generosity has to be compared to the present governments failures in government such as: free prescription charges, 500 new police officers, grants for part-time students, freezing of the council tax, increase in the number of teachers etc."

- Tonights lottery (numbers 950 950 995) was won by a Scottish syndicate: Charles Gordon of Cathcart, Wendy Alexander of Paisley, David Whitton of Bearsden, Thomas McCabe of Hamilton and Kirsty Wark of London. The syndicate said that the winning ticket almost ended up in the washing machine and if it wasn't for the eagle eye of an aquaintance called Paul checking their p

68

ANGUS OGG.,

The Minch 08/12/2007 12:22:43

Dream on. We can now. The dreams of my childhood are now reality. We all push at the same door. Soon it will give way. The empty room lies ahead of us. Only the SNP have furniture to fill it. Roll on Alex Salmond. Carry on Nicola Sturgeon. Heave awa’ Wendy and Anabel and him who’s pushing with you whose name no one can mind. History is on the side of change. Here’s a figure for you. Sixty years ago there were 51 independent nations in the world. Today there are 192. Soon there will be 193.

Heave awa’ lads and lassies, heave awa’. The door of the Union is giving way. It was Wendy Alexander who brought the triumvirate to join the SNP….. to give the last great heave. Independence is here for the taking. Heave awa’. Heave awa’
http://www.ianhamiltonqc.com/wordpress/

Is Iain Hamilton right about Wendy?

69

Nikostratos,

08/12/2007 12:32:03

#73 Methspain

Always tease tease tease
You're happy when I'm on my knees
One day is fine, next is black
So if you want me off your back
Well come on and let me know
Should I Stay or should I go?

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know

Never in doubt really never in doubt..he.he

70

whitegold,

Shire 08/12/2007 12:33:43

From the times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article301...

Headline:
Labour got a £180,000 grant to train staff about donations law

"Labour was paid £180,000 from public funds to help party officials to understand new funding rules shortly before it began accepting secret donations from a property developer, The Times can reveal."


This whole scenario is incredible. If somebody made this up as a plot of a book/film I'd think it far fetched. It's like a carry on film 'Carry on Cheating' but it doesn't seem very funny.

Kenneth Williams as Gordon Brown. In one scene Brown/Williams complains about the media pointing out sleaze after sleaze and says:

'Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me'

71

Mack1,

Carlisle 08/12/2007 12:42:06

First rule of politics for Labour: once your snout is in the trough keep it there as long as you like and sod the electorate.

72

HMFC,

MON THE HITMAN! 08/12/2007 12:54:00

Who cares?

THERES ONLY ONLY ONE RICKY HATTON!!

ONE RICKY HATTON!!

73

Maryann,

08/12/2007 13:06:26

# 3 and 4
# 76
Brilliant. So near the bone. Why does anyone still believe in Labour!

74

Methspain,

08/12/2007 13:07:04

78. Nikostratos / 12:32pm 8 Dec 2007

I posted "unintentionally."

;-)

75

Kerr Out!,

East Kilbride 08/12/2007 13:14:48

I sent the following mail to Starthclyde and Lothian & Borders Police headquarters. I'll let you know if I get a reply.

FAO Chief Constable

Dear Sir

As a concerned voter I would like to be informed if an investigation has been started into the acceptance of illegal donations to Labour Party funds by Charles Gordon MSP and Labour leader Wendy Alexander MSP.

Both individuals have admitted guilt of the offences of accepting illegal donations to election campaigns (under the Elections and Referendums Act 2000)from Mr Paul Green who is not a registered voter in the UK and therefore not eligible to make legal donations.

Despite both parties admitting breaking the Law, a serious offence sentencable by up to 1 year in prison, there has not been any mention in the press or media of an ongoing police investigation.

Please clarify at your earliest convenience.

Sincerely

My real name

76

Allen,

Glasgow 08/12/2007 13:34:44

Number 86- Good for you ;-) . The law maker is law breaker !!

He admits to doantions of under 1K- and pleads ignorance of the law- The law states- any doantions over 1k is to be registered- Why did Charlie ask for donations of 950 quid- This man has shot himself in the foot- Don't need an investigation, Charlie Gordon has admitted he broke the Law publicy.

Let them stay; they are doing the SNP a favour.

Ladies and Gentleman- Those with half a brain surely must be wondering what this Labour party is all about.

Where's the POLICE ?

77

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 13:43:02

Dear Methspain

thank you so much for your unintentional post.

Wendy

78

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 13:43:32

Re 87, I have recollection of writing that, and if I did it was inadvertently unintentional.

79

Methspain,

08/12/2007 13:53:29

87 & 88 Ayrshire Scot

I didn't really MEAN to read your two posts, but I did.
Please forgive.

80

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 13:54:24

89 What posts?

81

Ayrshire Scot™',

08/12/2007 14:00:59

This is a fuss over nothing.

Compared to Sean Connery's donations to the SNP it is a storm in a tea cup.

82

Methspain,

08/12/2007 14:04:28

...and along comes a fakie. (91)

83

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 14:11:39

Thank you Angus Ogg for that excellent article link to Ian Hamilton.

And thanks Ayrshire Scott for the equally good link to the Times article showing, irony of ironies, that Labour received over £186,000 of public funds from the Electoral Reform Society to......wait for it.....steady now....steady....

To Learn about the new laws concerning the legalities of receiving political donations (which of course came from the Labour Government in the first place).

Try as I might it's becoming more and more difficult to feel sorry for Labour especially in this 'Watergate' style of cover-up and denial.

84

,

08/12/2007 14:20:21
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85

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 14:28:10

Some of my Glasgow colleagues have a phrase about West of Scotland Labour putting up 'badly shaved apes in red rosettes' for election. The Cathcart Party, despite the drunken criminality of Lord Zippo, were obviously so contemptuous of the electorate that they didn't even bother to shave Gordon.
#50, yep, I've heard these stories too - just a pity we've got no independent-minded press up here.

86

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 14:28:42

Apologies £183,000

Being called a Troll is a new experience for me. Can you explain yourself Ayrshire.

87

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 14:38:52

96 Brian - 91, and 94 - not me, ss just a member of the deranged and lonely unionist community, poe faced and ashamed at the sleaze and corruption that typifies their out-dated parties, impersonating my good self (' after the name.....). They are probably too affronted to use their own monikers to comment of the meltdown of corruption and incompetence that is besetting the unionists. Ho hum

88

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 14:43:21

Nice one, #79 - and continuing the 'Carry On' theme, the next line from the Electorate should be the immortal one from 'Up the Kyber - "Fakir - OFF!!"

89

,

08/12/2007 14:52:54
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90

,

08/12/2007 14:59:40
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91

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:14:25
92

,

08/12/2007 15:17:42
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93

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:19:45

104 Perhaps because he didn't committ a criminal offence, directly related to the probity of elections and elected office?

94

Ananurhing,

08/12/2007 15:25:17

Photo Caption

Charlie says, " MALTESE CODGER IS BACKING ME UP TO THE HILT!" Ouch!

Or

GOT THAT BUNGED UP FEELING? YOU NEED BENDYLIN! RELIEVES THE SYMPTOMS OF SLEAZE AND HELPS YOU CARRY ON REGARDLESS!


Or maybe he's singing one of those nasal folk songs.
THE JERSEY LAMENT!

95

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 15:31:32

Thank you for that 98 Ayrshire Scot. I've reported the other offending posts.

96

,

08/12/2007 15:33:17
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97

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:38:00

109 Labour have admitted the law has been broken. They are now afloat on a river of sleaze and cover up of their own making.

Good news from the latest Scottish poll:

From YouGov poll

Thinking about the performances of Gordon Brown as Prime Minister and Alex Salmond as First Minister of Scotland which one do you think is doing a better job?
Alex Salmond 50 %
Gordon Brown 22 %

98

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 08/12/2007 15:38:44
99

,

08/12/2007 15:45:20
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100

Methspain,

08/12/2007 15:45:25

104. Ciderman 542000, Forres / 3:17pm 8 Dec 2007

"Why didn't Angus Macneil resign when he was caught philandering with two teenage girls?
Is the SNP afraid to face a by-election in the Western Isles?"

Why should he? It's not against the law is it? They WERE over age. Yer just a moralising wee nyaff....obviously labour. Next.

101

Methspain,

08/12/2007 15:49:45

Ciderman. Here are some quotes from the Scotsman (not an SNP publication)

1 "WENDY Alexander will find out within days whether she will face a police investigation into the illegal donation to her campaign fund." Did you see the "illegal" bit?

2 "Given that the law has been broken, and Ms Alexander's team concedes that, it is unlikely the commission will simply decide there is no case to answer."

See the rest of the admission on http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1902472007

102

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:51:25

112 Wendy Alexander's campaign team have twice admitted the law has been broken, in public statements. Please have a look at the news over the past two weeks and come back better informed.

This fits in with the pattern of Labour sleaze and corruption, from Ecclestone, Mittal, Mandelson, the Hindujas, Blunkett's lover's nanny's visa, Ron Davies, Nick Brown, Cash for Peerages, dodgey dossiers, Illegal £600,000 from Abrahams..........

103

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:54:32

112. But Nick Brown and Ron Davies did resign, or were they sacked? George Foulkes was convicted. Mike Watson was convicted. No 10 did not cooperate with the police on Cash for Peerages.

I think Labour apologists like you should perhaps ponder the very, very long list of Labour sleaze and criminality before throwing tiny wee stones from inside your massive, and very sleazy, glass house.....

104

Methspain,

08/12/2007 15:54:45

From the Scottish Government...

1 "The Labour leader in the Scottish Parliament, Wendy Alexander MSP (Labour, Paisley North) apologises for receiving an illegal donation for her leadership campaign."

2 "Scotland on Sunday reports that the tax exile who was solicited for an illegal donation to Wendy Alexander's leadership campaign was recommended for an honour by Charles Gordon MSP."

3 "The businessman involved in an illegal donation to Wendy Alexander's leadership campaign condemns Scottish Labour's 'gross mismanagement' of the affair."

ps..apologies for the "nyaff" bit. I withdraw the remark.

105

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:55:49

112

"The Scottish Labour Party last night admitted it had broken the law over a £950 donation made to Wendy Alexander's leadership campaign."

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?node...

106

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 15:56:51

112

" With Labour in Scotland openly acknowledging the law has been broken, ..."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/display.var.1867076.0.0.php?ac...

Still saying that they didn't break the law are you?

107

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 16:01:40

112

"This is another example of the SNP attempting to politicise the police " - this from a Labourite when Labour introduced a law to ban demonstrations near parliament to get rid of one anti-Iraq war protestor, and had a woman reading a list of war dead arrested under that law, and had a man standing with a small placard that said "not allowed" arrested under that law.......

108

,

08/12/2007 16:02:15
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109

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 16:09:45

This being the season of goodwill and all, I feel that it is only right that we give the benefit of the doubt to Charlie regarding his unfortunate unwitting error.

To this purpose I have obtained examples of cheques for your perusal.

Your task is to see if, by any stretch of the imagination, a personal cheque from Paul Green drawn on his personal account, could be in any way mistaken for a company cheque drawn from the business account of Combined Property Services[with which PG has no connection and is not an authorised signatory] and has never issued a cheque to Wendy Alexander or her campaign.

Personal Cheque...

http://www.mcqueenonline.com/cheque.jpg

Company Cheque...

http://www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk/temp/images/cheque2.jpg

With all the goodwill in the world, the only conclusion that I can come to is ;

That the only unwitting mistake that Charlie Gordon made, was to assume that Paul Green owned Combined Property Services who sometimes acted on his behalf, when he clearly does not.

He then dishonestly tried to mask the true source of the donation, to conceal it's illegality.

If the Electoral Commission were to come to any other conclusion, it would suggest to me, that they are even more corrupt than the Politicians who appointed them.

Seasonal Greetings:
to all at The Labour Party.

Blimp.

110

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 16:12:12

124 What about......

Ron Davies and his "madness" on Clapham Common?

Nick Brown and his association with rent boys?

George Foulkes drunkenly assaulting an old woman and policeman?

Mike Watson setting fire to a hotel?

Sarwar and the court case brought by Watson which alleged vote rigging in selections?

Cash for peerages, Harmen, Alexander, Hain, Ecclestone, Mittal - Labour's sleaze covers all permutations of the sexual, criminal, financial and ridiculous.....

111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 16:15:37

"Tom McCabe MSP, Ms Alexander's campaign manager, conceded said there had been "clearly a breach of the law", a dramatic reversal of the statement which Ms Alexander's team had issued on Wednesday."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/display.var.1867076.0.0.php?ac...

112

Stanley Unwin,

Live from HMP Keir Hardie House 08/12/2007 16:16:05

Chazza is down for early release.

Windy is down for the full term.

The food heres fine, and we've all got tele and radio.

The best channel is Labour 950 AM2.

113

A Scot through & through.,

08/12/2007 16:22:44

Do the population of Scotland still not realise that the only people in the country allowed to lie and cheat, and fiddle expenses, are our politicians in new labour? I hear there is a new board game going to hit the shops, called find the mole. This will help wendy to keep her job, so we all must search with great care.
Advice to Wendy, JUMP! You have been caught out! Give SCOTLAND back her integrity, and allow the honest Scottish people to hold up their heads with pride again! It is not the mole who cheated and broke the rules. JUMP, for if you are pushed, I hope There is a pile of horse droppings for your face to land in, after what you have done to us AND to your party's reputation. (& I do not support Labour!)

114

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 16:33:46

#129. A Scot through & through. -
- "I hope There is a pile of horse droppings for your face to land in"

Could easily be arranged, when we were kids getting the smelly stuff delivered to a mates house when no one was at home, was considered to be hilarious.

It seems that the tradition lives on.

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05/ramsayprotestPA_450x...

115

,

08/12/2007 16:37:31
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116

Karin M,

08/12/2007 16:54:23

I only have one thing to say about this donations scandal. Some people have said he broke the law and others have said it was a minor transgression by the labour party.
Are we then to measure the ability to lead by the transgressions of our leaders. If we are then when did this change. Is a lack of integrity and making mistakes something we should look up to in our leaders. Did people choose to vote for these people because they beleived that they would only break the law a little or did they vote for them to lead by example using their individual intellect and integrity.
When did society turn on its head and we now look up to people who delude and dupe the voters.
In a democracy do we not vote for the best or are we in fact just voting for the left.

117

Mikey,

08/12/2007 16:54:34

God, you're thick, Ciderman! I know you're a labour supporter, but what part of ADMITTED don't you understand?????

118

Methspain,

08/12/2007 16:56:38

133. Mikey / 4:54pm 8 Dec 2007

"God, you're thick, Ciderman! I know you're a labour supporter, but what part of ADMITTED don't you understand?????"

...well you can't say it went over his head. He's 6'2" you know.

119

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 16:59:25

131 Is setting fire to the curtains of a hotel different to setting fire to a hotel?

Ron Davies resigned, following giving conflicting and contradictory reports of what happened to him to police and the cabinet office - dodgey behaviour for a cabinet minister? If he did nothing wrong, why was he pushed?

You tried to bring in innuendo, rather than discuss Labour admitted illegality. As Labour is rife with all types of sleazes and criminality, this seems to have back-fired somewhat?

Prostitution, is I think, illegal. Thank you for the association, but there isn't enough money, not even in Labour's sleaze funds, to entice me touch the ravenous Mr Brown.

120

IainGlasgow,

08/12/2007 17:00:42

I hear a rumour that Labour will shortly be drafting legislation to abolish the crime of manslaughter. This is on the grounds that it implies no intent to kill and as such there should not be a conviction other than for the *intended* action i.e. GBH

121

ANGUS OGG.,

08/12/2007 17:01:03

86. Kerr Out!, East Kilbride / 1:14pm 8 Dec 2007

Please do not be surprised if you receive some unwelcome attention from the law after today, as you have effectively identified your self on here.
Change your moniker before posting again.

122

Methspain,

08/12/2007 17:02:18

124 Ciderman

You really don't get it do you? How can it be hypocrisy. What MacNeil did was not against the law. You're comparing apples with oranges here.

Regarding "You certainly read like a vertically, intellectually challenged creature," eh? Maybe you meant vertically challenged AND intellectually challenged.

My height is average but my IQ is embarrassingly high. It's my only failing - being a smart ass.

123

puskas,

East Kilbride 08/12/2007 17:18:30

Ciderman .. A labour Education, Education, Education Failure.

No 132 Karin,

Good post as they always are Karin..

Ciderman is deluded and duped .. With a name like that maybe we should feel sorry as alcohol does damage the brain.

Education, Education, Education Ciderman a Labour failure..

124

,

08/12/2007 17:18:56
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125

Methspaiñ,

08/12/2007 17:24:09

and for those who are interested, you know where to look for confirmation:

http://methalions.blogspot.com/

126

Methspain,

08/12/2007 17:31:21

...and as far as the fakie is concerned, it's a tilde. He can't even spell that correctly.

127

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 17:41:22

143

"Tom McCabe MSP, Ms Alexander's campaign manager, conceded said there had been "clearly a breach of the law", a dramatic reversal of the statement which Ms Alexander's team had issued on Wednesday."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/display.var.1867076.0.0.php?ac...

128

Methspain,

08/12/2007 17:44:00

Oh why not....the fakie told you to go to http://methalions.blogspot.com/

Please go and read the message.

129

Karin M,

08/12/2007 17:45:31

143 AM2 thats like a murderer saying i killed him but i didnae dae it on purpose.

if someone did this you would be quite happy to see him walking the streets and not held on remand would you.
You would be happy for the police not to investigate the crime while they waited for the burial of the victim to take place would you.
So if someone breaks into your house and steals your things you would be quite happy for him to be wandering about and the police to do nothing.
Breaking the law is breaking the law.

130

,

08/12/2007 17:45:51
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131

,

08/12/2007 17:47:10
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132

,

08/12/2007 17:47:31
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133

Karin M,

08/12/2007 17:48:23

AM2 please rate these crimes on level of breaking the law


rape
murder
attempted murder
theft
taking illegal money in an election
speeding
shoplifting.

please rate them 1 to 7 in level of how broken the law is.

134

,

08/12/2007 17:49:19
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135

,

08/12/2007 17:49:20
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136

Methspain,

08/12/2007 17:50:04

If a crime involves the state it's a criminal offence.

137

,

08/12/2007 17:51:14
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138

,

08/12/2007 17:55:00
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,

08/12/2007 18:00:21
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140

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:00:51

156

You are wrong. You've been given the links. You refuse to believe them.

141

Karin M,

08/12/2007 18:03:37

156 You say they are potential defendants if you beleive them to be innocent then why do you think there are like to be charges.

142

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:04:20

...and the Methspain with the comma is also a fake. Boring now.

143

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 18:04:27

#143. AM2, Glasgow - From this article -

"In a video statement on his website, www.charlesgordonmsp.com Mr Gordon reiterated his claim of innocence. He said: "Last week, I realised I had unwittingly made serious errors in connection with two political donations of under £1,000."

Cant you read Labour Nuspeak?

"made serious errors" = broke the law

"unwitingly" = shoplifters bogus defence

"under £1,000." = Whats all the fuss about bluster

If he had done no wrong, he would have said so in plain English.

If Bill Clinton was as candid as Charlie Gordon he would have said - I was unaware that a blowjob counted as sexual activity.

144

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:04:50

155 A Labour MSP is responsible. We can say with certainty that the Labour party is responsible. How they spin, sleaze and soft-shoe-shuffle to apportion blame amongst themselves is not very interesting frankly, just adds to the impression of sleaze and double-dealing.

145

John Q McNab,

Wrestling with a packet of ginger snaps 08/12/2007 18:04:57

Poor Charlie Gordon, can he withstand any more scrutiny? Any interested perusing journos might want to take a closer look at his connections with the "Glasgow, Scotland With Style" campaign and the subsequent contract awarded to a PR company that he may or may not have close connections with....

146

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:05:36

161 Nice one. Spot on.

147

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:07:24

156. Ciderman 542000, Forres / 5:55pm 8 Dec 2007

"There have been no confessions from anyone"

...so why did Charlie Gordon quit as Scottish Labour's transport spokesman? For a laugh?

148

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:07:29

159 So what. "Scottish" Labour have shown they don't like laws being enforced. Anyone who has written something dodgey on here can just say they did so unwittingly, thus negating the offence. Or does the Labour sleaze play-book only work for them?

149

Montague X Burton,

Wrestling with a packet of ginger snaps 08/12/2007 18:08:35

Alas my dear friend John Q McNab has choked on a moderate ginger biscuit. Just as well old Monty Burton's around.

Poor Charlie Gordon, can he withstand any more scrutiny? Any interested perusing journos might want to take a closer look at his connections with the "Glasgow, Scotland With Style" campaign and the subsequent contract awarded to a PR company that he may or may not have close connections with....

150

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:12:06

Last word from me re Gordon.

"He admitted he had solicited a £950 donation for Wendy Alexander's Labour leadership campaign from the Jersey-based retail tycoon Paul Green, thereby breaking electoral laws barring donations from non-UK residents.

"He resigned as Labour's transport spokesman at Holyrood, but then faced further embarrassment the following day when he announced he had also accepted another donation from Mr Green, for the same amount, in April to help his own re-election campaign."

151

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:12:53

158 The Labour arrogance of continuing to deny point blank that the law has been broken merely adds to the impression of their bent, illegal disregard for the electorate. Keep it up.

152

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:14:00

170

"Tom McCabe MSP, Ms Alexander's campaign manager, conceded said there had been "clearly a breach of the law", a dramatic reversal of the statement which Ms Alexander's team had issued on Wednesday."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/display.var.1867076.0.0.php?

153

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:14:45

170 Or do you prefer

"clearly a breach of the law, in good faith"

154

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:20:30

170 AM2

Read the first paragraph of my 169. Read it again. What part of "thereby breaking electoral laws" don't you get? I don't accuse. I'm simply copying statements seen on other newspapers.

The "thereby breaking electoral laws" says it all. He says it was inadvertent. "Ah didnae ken it was against the law" doesn't often hold up.

155

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:22:17

AM2

I exchanged some money once with someone I knew. The money I got was counterfeit. I acted in good faith.
Aye right!

(ps...I didn't)

156

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:24:08

175 I think Ciderthing and other Labour apologists are trying to dispute the law was broken

157

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:26:33

176 The campaign manager has admitted the law was broken. What more do you want? Whether this happened "in good faith" , "unwittingly", "unknowingly" or "unintentionally" is merely a question of the excuse to be fed out and is irrelevant to the criminal act. It may be a case for mitigation in punishment...

158

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:29:03

186 AM2

we do not know who. We do know someone must be criminally liable if the law has been broken. Unless it was broken by no one.

159

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:29:59

186 Did you notice Labour took £180,000 grant to educate staff on this law? Money well spent?

160

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:31:28

AM2..if you check my posts I don't accuse. It all comes down to semantics here. Obviously the law was broken. Labour have admitted this. The main point is was it done in error? If it was, then unfortunately there isn't too much of a distinction made in law.

Old ladies have been fined for "forgetting" to pay for something in a supermarket.

God Almighty, I've done it myself - inadvertently. I would have been a bit cheesed off if I'd been done for it as it was an oversight.

It would however have been a pretty shaky defence.

We'll just have to wait & see.

161

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 18:33:36

189 Given that Mr Green specifically asked if the donations were legal before he gave them, the "ignorance" defence seems a bit shakey, given that the law requires reasonable steps by the recipient to check the legality of donations.

162

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:33:40

Tea time. I've reported the fakie posts. It will be interesting to see if they are removed as quickly as "others" have been in the past.
;-)

Fake posts on 140, 141, 147, 149, 151, 152 & 154.

163

Henry De Tamble,

08/12/2007 18:33:44

Hoos poos Ayrshire

I shall wait till tomorrow...

164

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 18:37:48

#178. AM2, Glasgow

The man admitted to making an "unwitting error" the contention, which you appear to be ignoring.

Is that "unwitting error" in this context is a euphemism for "breaking the law".

At #125 I pondered the possibility of a normal context "unwitting error" having been made.

Do you disagree with my conclusion?

165

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08/12/2007 18:39:36
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08/12/2007 18:42:38
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167

Karin M,

08/12/2007 18:43:44

Am2 the labour party broke the law.
wendy alexander and charles gordon are members of the labour party as are the other members of team alexander we are therefore not arguing over who is responsible but degrees of responsibility.
charles gordon most guilty
wendy alexander a little less guitly
however the fact of the matter is wether you like it or not they are still guilty.

168

Karin M,

08/12/2007 18:44:27

they broke the law.
breaking the law = criminal

169

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:44:50

196. Ciderman 542000

"Why don't the SNP goons represented here, append their true names and make their accusations in public"

Good evening Mr Ciderman 542000. How about you do that and stop hiding behind a moniker?

Ridiculous.

170

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:46:47

Hey Ciderman

You come on her with THIS moniker and immediately attack the same people you did with your OTHER moniker (s). Woeful.

If this is your first visit (ahem) you are being a bit cheeky first time out no?

Re-arrange the following..."Head boil your."

171

Montague X Burton,

Wrestling with a packet of ginger snaps 08/12/2007 18:47:23

I'm glad AM2's here to defend Labour, otherwise I might have been convinced that they're a bunch of rule bending incompetents more interested in self preservation that serving the electorate.

Great times for Labour do keep it up.

172

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:47:25

202

Obviously it should be you come on HERE.

Come on her is a totally different think entirely.

173

whitegold,

Shire 08/12/2007 18:47:44

The law has been broken.

Then there were the lies of it being from a UK company, when it never was. Considering it was evidently a personal donation and replied to by Wendy as a personal donation, and Green doesn't own the UK company - this wasn't an 'honest' mistake, but a lie.

Then we have the claims of ignorance of the law. Really? If your job involves raising funds then you know the law. Especially since Labour were given £183,000 of public money to help officials understand new funding rules (shortly before it accepted secret donations.) Not only is ignorance of the law not an excuse - it is simply a lie.

Then we have the lies that no-one knew there was anything wrong. The spreadsheet seems to rule this out.

Too many questions need (honest) answers and not spin.

Labour are simply failing to sort this out, which is why there has been so much criticism.

However apparently anyone being critical of this is called a 'SNP goon'. What an incredibly dumb comment. Anyone with a shred of decency and expecting some sort of accountability from public servants are angry. There are plenty of Labour voters really angry at more sleaze and lack of accountability.

Its a national scandal that this is still going on - that isn't a party political remark - its simply true.

174

Methspain,

08/12/2007 18:48:23

Ciderman

You also make a fool of your post by indulging in the same "rumours."

VERY English voice-ish!!!!

175

Karin M,

08/12/2007 18:52:41

Am2 i really really hope charges are not made agaisnt wendy alexander because i would like to see her stay on a leader of scottish labour (theres a misnomer if ever there was one) Because i want to see her face at the next election when she gets flung out on her behind.

176

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:02:11

Ciderman, is that your RAF number after your name?

That aside, perhaps you can help me. I stayed in Caroline Street in Forres in 1998 and watched the Word Cup games in the pub next to the flat but I can't remember its name. Can you help?

That was when I was an engineer on the new firemains going round RAF Kinloss.

177

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08/12/2007 19:05:41
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08/12/2007 19:06:36
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179

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:06:36

charles gordon has not once explained why he thought the donation from mr green came under the auspices of combined property services. Now theres a story i would like to hear why is none of the papers asking him that.

180

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:06:43

Aye, the next few weeks are going to be interesting.

181

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:10:06

213 darlink she is so far behind that paleontologists are thinking of naming her as the missing link.

182

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08/12/2007 19:12:01
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183

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:13:10

217, AMtwa.

Guilt has been admitted. It is now down to the squirming and wriggling and buck passing within the Labour party.

Quite why you cannot see that is beyond me. But there again I do not have insider information on how they are going to bluff their way out of it.

Do you?

184

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:14:01

Am2 you cant be presumed to be innocent if you say i made a big mistook with my returns to the electoral commission which means i unintentionally broke the law.

185

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:14:30

192 Hoos Poos

186

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:14:54

221 Woof !Ruff! grrrrrrr

187

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:16:37

216 the only spinning going on is by you and labour party in its web of deceit and lawbreaking.

188

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:17:42

Am2 zzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiippppppp

189

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:18:40

227 ah there are none so blind as those with their hands stuck over their eyes saying its not true its not true.

190

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:19:09

196 Ciderman

we wonder why you don't append your name and address with the accussation you make at 196...... all mouth...?

191

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:19:39

229 who is they? these would be the they that havent broken the law.

192

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08/12/2007 19:20:54
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193

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:21:14

193 AM2
"Do we really know that an individual rather than the Labour Party in a corporate sense is legally liable? I'm not so sure"

So you are saying on one had it may be aLabour elected MSP or MSP acting for the Labour party to blame, or on the other hand it may be the Labour party to blame collectively?

And the difference is with regard to Labour being sleazy and corrupt?

194

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:21:23

220, Ciderman, thank you. That was the one with the bar at the far end of the room when you walked in.

You must forgive my memory, I was in the Royal Artillery and I can't remember the RAF being called the crabs - must be a Para thing.

Must ask Hamish about that.

195

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:23:14

227, AMtwa. You wouldn't would you? They're bluffing right now in case you didn't notice.

196

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:24:21

237, AMtwa. The buck in Scotland stops with A

197

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:24:42

233 You are denying the fact that members of the labour party broke the law and should be punished.

198

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:27:14

Am2 ooh im a propagandist now. What a step up.

199

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:28:44

244 so when someone says you know what i did it its a fair cop mistakes were made. we try them now do we. Wow a first for scottish justice. Do tell what is the purpose of this trying guilty people.

200

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:30:18

244 Really - after how long, 28 days, 42 days? Or no "shoot to kill"?

201

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 19:32:08

#198. AM2, Glasgow

Curious evasion!

Do you agree or disagree with my opinion that it is not possible for one of even severely limited cognitive powers to "unwittingly" mistake a personal cheque from Paul Green with a cheque from Combined Property Services.

You may disregard CPS's contention that there was no such cheque .

Why not also disregard Greens assertion that it was a cheque from his personal account.

And assume that Gordon erroneously thought that Green was an authorised signatory for CPS if you wish.

Just think Cheque - Personal or Business?

Personal Cheque...

http://www.mcqueenonline.com/cheque.jpg

Company Cheque...

http://www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk/temp/images/cheque2.jpg

2+2 = ?


The Union is not at stake either way!

202

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:32:38

Am2 do tell us then in your opinion what did wendy alexander mean when she said. deeply regret the damage which recent publicity has brought to the Labour party.

"However, I reject any suggestion of intentional wrongdoing on my part. I intend to address these matters with the Electoral Commission, with whom I am co-operating fully.

"I am confident when all the facts are known I will be exonerated of any intentional wrongdoing."

Which part of i and wrong doing i.e did wrong dont you get.

i did wrong
i did it.
This is what she said.
her defence is she didnt mean to do wrong which still makes her guilty.

203

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:33:13

241, AMtwa, the buck stops with Wendy Alexander is not my personal opinion. She is the one responsible for ensuring the legality of the funding for her "election campaign". The rules have been well documented over the last few days.

Btw. If you don't believe me, use your cut'n'paste time machine and research it yourself.

204

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08/12/2007 19:33:37
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08/12/2007 19:36:04
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206

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:36:18

250 unfortunate choice of fruit

207

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:38:03

256 What was that you were suggesting about Donald Trump at 196.

Gone all quiet and sheepish...... ?

208

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08/12/2007 19:38:32
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209

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:39:22

256 Cider says "I reiterate, I have made no allegations against any person"

but at 196 says "How much is Donald Trump paying them (SNP Government) to fight his corner in the Aberdeenshire Golf Course Debacle?"

and urges others to append their names and addresses to their accussations? All mouth.....

210

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:39:28

Am2 let me rephrase wendy alexanders statement so you understand it.


"I am confident when all the facts are known I will be exonerated of any wrongdoing.intentionally "

211

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:40:20

252, AMtwa. Can a man no go for a pee and check on his evening meal?

If a party admits guilt, I reckon it's ok to say they are guilty. The rules say that the buck stops with Alexander.

212

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:40:22

261 Interesting. If Charlei Gordon didn't see the cheque (why did he admit errors and resign?) and Wendy didn't see the cheque, and Jackie Baillie didn't know anything about it, makes you wonder how it got banked.....?

213

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:40:30

wendy alexander did not say i will be cleared of wrongdoing she said i will be cleared of intentional wrongdoing which is a whole different thing in fact it means i did it but i didnt mean to.

214

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:41:26

264 At best and at least she is guilty of negligence in failing to take reasonable steps that monies solicited and accepted by her campaign were legal, and allowing the law to be breached,m no?

215

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:42:52

264 if she thought she would be cleared she would have said i will be cleared of wrong doing not i will be cleared of not doing it on purpose.

216

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08/12/2007 19:43:19
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217

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:44:02

Richard, 254, has anyone yet heard a statement from Labour which quoted Alexander as having said, "Donee no gie that".

218

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:44:53

264 she has admitted she has done wrong in her statement it matters not one bit in law wether she meant to break the law or not the fact is the law was broken she admitted she broke it.

She is guilty. she has said so.

We dont try guilty people strange as that may seem.

219

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08/12/2007 19:45:13
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220

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:46:44

273? Whit. I didn't know I was speeding..... A criminal offence does not require knowledge. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

In this, definitely not as Labour took a public grant of £180,000 to educate staff on this law, Labour introduced this law, and Mr Green asked specifically if it was legal. Also worth noting that in Wendy's donor list, this donation was flagged as "permissable?"

221

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:47:10

275 which rules would these be. Would these be the legal rules.
Its called the law Am2 its what makes society work and seperates the bad people from the good ones.

Which part of the laws dont you get and are you typing this from bar L

222

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:48:06

273 So Labour should, by your logic, just publish an account number where anyone can pay in donations - as they don't know where it comes from they don't know if they are breaking the law? The electoral law requires the recipient to check, not the donor

223

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:49:00

right so stuff the law
stuff the english language

all those dont matter because Am2 will have to admit he is wrong if we all listen to those.

you cannot defent the indefensible

shes guilty

deal with it.

224

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:49:24

268, AMtwa. What exactly are you trying to prove with your attitude?

Your persistence? Your loyalty to the Labour party?

The Labour party has admitted its guilt and the ultimate responsibility lies with Wendy Alexander.

She has not yet been found guilty in a court of law.

So, the next few weeks will be interesting as Labour wriggles and squirms to try to save their leader.

225

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:50:39

283 You know that reallly must require some olympic style mental gymnastics to push away all those things to try and defend her.

just say it
just say okay shes guilty
i know you dont want her to be
but she is.

226

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08/12/2007 19:50:43
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227

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:52:13

Im not trying to interpret anything from her words Am2 its called reading i learned it a place called schooool. its where big boys and girls go to and learn stuff an at.

228

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:54:21

Karin M, how did you get your name back?

AMtwa. I think she's guilty but that's just my opinion.

229

Karin M,

08/12/2007 19:56:26

Am2 try and think about this for a wee minute.

There is a guy lying on the floor with a stab wound

His missus is standing over him knife in hand saying

i am very sorry but its okay i am sure when the facts become known i will be cleared of any intentional wrongdoing.

230

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 19:56:31

290, AMtwa. What a pity you were born too late to split the atom. The practice you have put it splitting the hair.

Broke the law and guilty. Get a life.

231

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 19:58:28

288 Cider

do tell, who is responsible, in your opinion, for what Labour have admitted is a breach of the law?

232

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08/12/2007 19:59:32
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233

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 20:00:42

294, Ayrshire, I reckon the Ciderman is away trying to find out if the bar in that pub in Caroline Street, Forres, is at the far end of the room when you walk in.

234

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:01:08

So what defence do you think wendy is going to use

self defence

"i couldnt help it mlud he came at me with the cheque."

" i am verry sorry mlud but he made me sign the letter i was just defending myself"

235

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:02:11

295 but if you don't know where your money comes from, even though the law requires you to check, that is OK?

236

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:02:31

291 that master of miracles that is ayrshire scot.

237

pppink,

08/12/2007 20:02:53

This is becoming more like a legal seminar on defamation than a free forum.

238

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:03:05

295 by that logic, Wendy seems guilty of of "careless or dangerous " cheque cashing?

239

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:04:36

295 When did you abondon Paisley, Pete?

240

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:04:57

299 Hoos Poos Marinka

241

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 20:05:56

300 fffeel fffree to comment on defamation.

We are talking about the Labour ppparty

242

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:09:08

an another thing

since when did breaking the law become a matter for the electoral commision are they a new branch of the fiscal.

243

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08/12/2007 20:11:03
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244

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:12:21

#261. Ciderman 542000, Forres

Good point, If it cannot be proved that he did it would give them the opportunity to point the finger of blame down the line to someone who genuinely made an unwitting mistake.

He would still be wide open to claims that he wilfully attempted to cover it up and it does not absolve MS Alexander of her responsibilities as "Regulated Donee".

I have acted as an election agent and although you do not necessarily personally collect or spend all of the funds involved or directly receive the receipts, author or print the literature.

You are personally responsible for ensuring that electoral law is adhered to and consequently liable for any penalties for transgressions which take place, with or without your prior or retrospective knowledge.

You acknowledge that when you sign the forms to become the agent and when you submit the return.

245

pppink,

08/12/2007 20:14:55

#204 No cccomment

246

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 20:16:36

The answer to this is to charge them jointly and severally. Then we'd see who squealed first.

247

pppink,

08/12/2007 20:18:27

She said: "There's been an illegality which I understand has been admitted. There's some debate about who has prime responsibility for that.

"In these circumstances then a police investigation at some point is inevitable as surely as night follows day.

"At some point there has to be a police investigation - it cannot be dealt with in any other way.

248

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:23:42

306 A question you fail to answer. oh dear, with stalwart defenders such as you, the Labour party is in deep sleaze

249

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:26:40

#310. Jock Tamson

I'd use the interrogation techniques that they find acceptable to use on rag-heads at Guantanamo Bay and the other rendition flight destinations...sauce for the goose...

I have no idea what they may be but if the Labour Party is OK about them it is only fair that they try them for themselves...they are British after all.

250

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:30:15

313 Or perhaps lock them up for 90 days without charge?

251

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 20:31:05

ColB,313, this is just another rendition of a
flight of fantasy from Labour

252

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:35:42

#314. Ayrshire Scot™

If that was to happen to them, would they declare themselves "political prisoners" refuse to wear prison clothes and smear sh!te all over the place?

253

pppink,

08/12/2007 20:39:28

Guantanamo Bay is like Butlins compared to this forum.

254

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:43:00

shines lamp in pinks face

"so you admit it then youve been to butlins your guilty arent you"

255

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 20:44:19

316 well they are doing the latter already, are they not?

256

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 20:45:22

316, ColB. They are already smearing the broon stuff all over the place.

257

WL,

livingston 08/12/2007 20:45:58

If Charlie Gordon broke the law he has to go. Very simple.

258

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:46:03

#317. pppink

George Foulkes is not a happy camper.

He avidly reads these threads and even quotes things that the deranged Nat's say about him on his website, called "For Foukes Sake", for ffoulkes sake!

259

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:46:12

I thought they were just leaving it lying about there is so much of it.

260

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:49:15

306 at least i have an intellect to put limits on. I bet you wonder where the any key on your keyboard is.

261

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08/12/2007 20:50:11
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262

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 20:50:54
263

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:51:33

#318. Karin M

Butlins was OK before they converted most of the camps to HAVEN.

But Hi-di-ho what do you know... the camps in England were much better than the one at Ayr. That union dividend again.

264

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:51:53

The electorate are already waking up to what is going on. helped by some strange person who i dont know at all who has been leaving strange bits of a4 paper in newsagents.

265

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:52:56

327 I liked the one at ayr many a school trip and day trip i spent there on the dodgems and the umbrellas and the mexican hat.

266

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:55:10

#326. Jock Tamson,

I shall watch Chanel 4 more often, thanks.

267

Karin M,

08/12/2007 20:56:47

Gordon brown doing something else he shouldnt in public.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6VaP1HB7Vew

268

HEN BROON 5,

THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THIS FROM THE HERALD 08/12/2007 20:58:23

So the doddering old gobber Lord Zebedee is an avid reader here is he Colonel. It gives me great joy reading about his exploits, what an old goat he is. Cheers Mi Lud. http://news.independent.co.uk/people/pandora/article21750...

269

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 20:58:32

#329. Karin M

Were you ever there when the chair-lift was working? Me neither!

Minehead was my favourite.

270

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 21:00:18

333 I was on the chair lift.......

271

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 21:00:45

Add your donation
Don't post cheques that break the law
Don't post personal details such as addresses.

To paraphrase the Add your comment bit that you see before you everytime you post here.

272

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:01:05

332 i liked the story below the one about the baron this one

Hard Labour

Labour MPs' constituency staff are, now, a long-suffering bunch. They have been invited to the Commons on 1 March for a training day "focussing [sic] on building relationships and personal communications with your constituents". Workshops include: "How to run a listening panel" (the wheeze formerly known as a focus group), "Campaigning over the summer" (with bosses on holiday), and "Staying within Legal Guidelines" (timely).

"Due to financial constraints," writes Fiona Gordon, Labour Party secretary and purveyor of Tony Blair DVDs, "a small contribution of £5 will be charged". Grumbles one grassroots workhorse: "Due to financial constraints! It makes you laugh. Staff end up paying to train to re-elect their overpaid bosses. Typical!"


perhaps some labour people couldnt spare a fiver.

273

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:02:07

212. Ciderman 542000, Forres / 7:05pm 8 Dec 2007

Methspain # 201

"I am not making unsubstantiated allegations about any person, you and your co-conspirators are defaming any number of people, but are doing the Salmond thing, where you make allegations without exposing yourself to personal risk. Basically you are cowards."

No..YOU are making allegations about the SNP funding for the election. The election committee has found no problem, so wrong there. You are also hiding behind a moniker, so pot = kettle = black.

"Methspain # 202 Again, you lack evidence." Wrong.

"Methspain # 204 New tactic; criticise your own posts. You ARE an SNP candidate!" I didn't criticise, I made an error in typing.

"Methspain # 206 You are outed as a racist. Tut, tut, not unexpected though :-(

I am not a racist. I mentioned "English voice" as he is one of our more regular posters. I thought your posts were like his. Bit hey..if you're losing an argument call a poster a racist.

If you'd read any of my previous posts you'd know that one thing you CAN'T call me is a racist.

274

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:02:25

333 i actually was once and it got stuck half way.

275

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:04:37

I liked the mini motorbikes and the quad bikes fun vrrroooomm.

276

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:05:09

ayrshire is butlins still there?

277

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 21:07:00

#332. HEN BROON 5

I never tire of reading the article you linked to.

Here is what Foulkes says about us.

"SNP supporters vastly outnumber any other posters on these so-called forums, and suspiciously so. Many of them lack basic understanding of facts, history and circumstances; indeed, some have not even read the article and have commented based on reading the headline alone.

Why is it that Nationalists feel constrained to resort to personal verbal attacks so regularly, often without even referring to the issue itself? Comment after comment refers to my weight, age, my tone of voice, and even the shape of my nose, without at all addressing the serious issue I brought up. I confess to many physical inadequacies and imperfections, but what have they to do with my views? - And yet the very same people accuse me of dodging the actual issues.

Another hilarious and revealing paradox is that many of the comments serve to demonstrate the point that I was making. One commentator says: "How did I never guess that wee naff wiz (was) an Englishman?", but then goes on saying that "A blanket hatred of the English is not now and never has been a trait I have found much evidence of among those who seek self-government for Scotland". Another comment manages to fit this contradiction into one sentence: "the English Lord Foulkes has the gaul to accuse the SNP of being ‘racist' and ‘anti-English'"... In reality, although born in England my ancestry is half Scottish, but my English half has provoked this poster to vilify me and prove my point.

It is my advice to anyone that has reservations about what I said to have a look through those fascinating comments. Many of the SNP supporters that comment there demonstrate the type of dangerous effects the rhetoric of the SNP Executive might have. "It is a fabulous thing", says one, "to have the indigenous people of any countr

278

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 21:09:20

#334. Ayrshire Scot™

You cheated...you had a 50mile start, at least.

279

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:09:45

256. Ciderman 542000, Forres / 7:33pm 8 Dec 2007

"Ayrshire Scot™ # 231 I reiterate, I have made no allegations against any person. " No but against a party yes eg in a previous post you said, "How much is Donald Trump paying them (SNP Government) to fight his corner in the Aberdeenshire Golf Course Debacle?"

If that's not an allegation, I don't know what is.

280

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 21:10:34

340 Marinka

It is now just a caravan park

281

 Ayrshire Scot™,

08/12/2007 21:12:23

342 Aye, but I was just a wee lad then

282

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:14:00

273. Ciderman 542000, Forres / 7:43pm 8 Dec 2007

"Karin M # 253 To commit a crime you have to do it knowingly, it is known as criminal intent (mens rea)."

Actually you couldn't be more wrong Ciderman. "Not knowingly" is not part of a defence (as I have found out to my considerable cost). I exceeded the speed limit, but not knowingly doesn't wash. Neither does "I didn't know the gun was loaded."

If anyone gets off with "not knowingly" the courts will be awash with appeals.

ps...mine first!

283

pppink,

08/12/2007 21:15:19

Thats Lord Ffoulkes a half breed

(note for m'learned friend Veritas, fair comment, rixa onus of proof etc groan zzzzz)

284

pppink,

08/12/2007 21:17:45

Karen - Two weeks at Leven fighting with Mohawks was all I was allowed.

285

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:19:08

283. AM2, Glasgow / 7:48pm 8 Dec 2007

#280 Ayrshire Scot

"Good grief! We're back to Christine Grahame's idiocy again! If you are caught speeding, there is no debate to be had about who is liable. That analogy is inapplicable."

Well according to a certain court case (ahem) you are wrong. I was done for speeding on the Grangemouth to Falkirk road. There was no limit shown. No lamp-post at certain intervals to give you a clue...nada. I mentioned that with the absence of signs - lamp-posts at certain intervals etc, how was I to know the limit? I was told more or less "Ye should have kent!"

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. My appeal is ready!

286

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:21:10

This has now become a semantic bollocks thread.

"I am not admitting guilt but I broke the law" appears to be the road we're heading. Come on guys!

287

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:23:03

302. Ayrshire Scot™ / 8:04pm 8 Dec 2007

295 "When did you abondon Paisley, Pete?"

a-HA!!!! Yes yes yes!

288

,

08/12/2007 21:25:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1214269, Article id was mapped to record!
289

Methspain,

08/12/2007 21:29:07

...and now that my fakie has been removed, I'll disappear. Good night Paisley Pete.

290

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:29:46

348 What the haircut?

291

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:30:16

oops not thats mohican isnt it.

indians what are indians doing in leven.

292

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:32:55

geeza link alma.

293

Karin M,

08/12/2007 21:34:24

ahh many a happy snog and grope i had at butlins.

294

Nikostratos,

08/12/2007 21:38:47

ignorance of the law is no defence

Traditionally UK courts have been very reluctant to allow a person to claim that his ignorance of the law is a defence to a criminal charge. This is true where even where it would have been almost impossible for the defendant to know the law (e.g., it changed while he was out of the country).

An partial exception may exist where it can be shown that the defendant's ignorance obviates the MensRea of the offence. For example, if the offence requires that a person intend to appropriate property belonging to another, and he takes property which he thinks has been legally disclaimed by its former owner, then he may not have the mens rea of the offence. In this case, the defence is not ignorance of the law, but mistake of law obviating mens rea. The distinction is a fine one, and it is not obvious that the defence has frequently succeeded. However, a statute may specifically allow a defence of this sort in certain cases. For example, it is a defence to a charge of Theft for the defendant to show that he honestly believed he had a right to take the property.

295

Col. Blimp IV*,

08/12/2007 21:39:11

#331. Karin M

Gordon Brown is doin' it
Doin' it
Pickin' his nose an' chewin' it
Chewin' it

Gonnie keep daein' that Gordon

296

pppink,

08/12/2007 21:42:25

#355 Karen - Yeah real Mohawk Indians in full headdress war paint and loin-skins moccasins and tomahawks drinking haulf and haulfs...

297

A Scot through & through.,

08/12/2007 22:50:56

I take it we all agree she is a "lyin toad" who needs a foot placed with cosiderable momentum in the posterior!

298

,

08/12/2007 23:02:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1214423, Article id was mapped to record!
299

,

08/12/2007 23:12:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1214435, Article id was mapped to record!
300

,

08/12/2007 23:17:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
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301

Alexander the Scot,

Michigan U.S.A. 08/12/2007 23:42:12

............................................................................................................

I WAS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

The "Scotsman" really is a Scottish Nationalist publication after all!!!! Who but Nationalists would print a picture of Charlie Gordon like that?!

.............................................................................................................

302

Karin M,

08/12/2007 23:56:02

368

err no wrong again

Who indeed how about a nice unionist newspaper that didnt want to see wendy get the boot but instead wanted to throw mr gordon to the wolves. think about it. no comment on wendy but can comment on charlie. Difference?

303

Alexander the Scot,

Michigan U.S.A. 09/12/2007 00:11:39

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

369-Karin M

You're right, I was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG again.
I never thought of the old throw him to the wolves trick.
Well thought out Karin.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

305

cataibh,

Bo'ness 09/12/2007 00:39:40

Should Wendy not explain that her team at Holyrood were underfunded and Alex Salmon would not increase the allowance therefore the fault lies with the SNP. She could then go on to point out that with more public funding an enlarged team would have found out that it was against the law to take donations from people not on the electrol register.
Headline in the Scotsman --Alex Salmon forced to admit SNP cut back funding to Labour--

306

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 09/12/2007 01:23:03

This all started in Tassie under their Labour Govt. An 'infectious cancer' of lies through Labour has become so bad that that it has been passed on to the Tassie Devil. Infectious cancers of lies and deceit have brought down many Labour pollies we have ditched plenty in Queensland but they still keep coming. No one believed cancers were really infectious until they passed it on to the Tassie Devil. It seems that inbreeding in the Tassie Devil and Labour Politicians mean that when they bite each other they pass on the invading cell but their own immune system does not recognise it as foreign

308

Miss Jean Brodie,

09/12/2007 18:17:09

Hang politicians guilty of crime - a new hardline must be taken !

309

Stanley Unwin,

10/12/2007 00:12:26

Uglúk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob búbhosh skai

310

Arrow,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 00:20:35
great photie of Charlie. you should put it in front of open fires and it would keep the weans away!
311

2Right,

On Location 07/03/2008 02:20:55
Wendy and Gordon should be shamed into resigning, If not then they should just be shown the door.
Criminal activity must always be investigated, Elish is paying Labour back for electing her.
Sack the lot

 

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