Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

The hunt is On.
Sponsored by
The hunt is On.
Can you track down Scotland's wildest beastie?
 
 
Wednesday, 3rd December 2008 Change Date

The Scotsman Digital Archive - Special Christmas Offer
The article has been unable to display.
 
1

,

09/10/2008 01:15:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 09/10/2008 01:36:24
Blame it ALL on STUPID George Baby Bush and his Cabinet of fumbling nincompoops and the Oval Office's lackeys at Wall Street.
3

SCULLION1,

Canada 09/10/2008 01:43:21
Despite all their hindsight gobbledygook, economists are worse at predictions than weathermen. At least weathermen try to predict something that obeys the laws of nature, economists have the impossible task of trying to predict how low money grubbers will sink to cash in.
4

,

09/10/2008 01:48:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 01:51:38


Tim ~2,

What you say, has absolute truth, we will get all the,..'Comments' on what you say is wrong!

But at end of-day, you are correct!

The USA Rules all World economy, 'one-way-or-the-other'

You, Slow Down or Stop, we all are affected!

And don't anyone say, I am Wrong!

Because if you do!, you are the only ones Wrong, in your non-understanding, of the Truths!
6

uniqorn51,

Tucson, USA 09/10/2008 02:12:52
The worlds economy has been crashing for at least a year, if one has been looking. The "collapse" occurs just before the American election. No accident. This timing was orchestrated for the benefit of Obama, who supports a One World Order, and therefor the needed decline of American influence. The bottom line is the loss of individual freedoms as nations give up their autonomy--to who?--what? Many have it backwards. There cannot be a One World Order with a strong America present. The Bushes and Clintons have been behind the decline of The United States for the sake of the coming One World. It will not be the United States who runs a One World Order.
7

RightStuff,

Texas, USA 09/10/2008 02:19:00
It wasn't George Bush. It was leftist do-gooder politicians who passed laws requiring financial institutions to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back. There are criminal penalties for "discriminating" against these poor, hapless folks. Get it? LEFTISTS, or SOCIALISTS. The US economy is 27% of the world's economy, and the do-gooders have fouled it up for the whole world. The US economy drives even poor Fidel Castro's Cuba's economy, whether he will admit it or not.
8

Forward not Back,

09/10/2008 02:20:34
#6 - yep, it's all a conspiracy!

Nothing to do with granting mortgages to ex-cons or unemployed people, and nothing at all to do with 0% interest credit card offers that you can max out and transfer onto another credit card, then get your limit increased.

No, definitely all a conspiracy.
9

kaw kaay shion,

waukesha, wi, usa 09/10/2008 02:23:21
"NEW WORLD ORDER".....There goes those COMMUNIST buzzwords provided to you ALL by George Herbert Walker Bush in the 1990's through his Bejing buddies. While the Chinese are passing out their little red books to the rest of you, the thirty million American Veterans will be shooting as soon as we see the whites of their eyes. We promise.
10

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 09/10/2008 02:28:45
#2 TimW1234

You are aiming at the wrong den of thieves. The fault lies with the Unted States Congress, primarily with Senators Dodd and Schumer and Representative Franks, who have been bribed for several years with large "contributions" from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and specifically their politically appointed chief executives Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson. These people were cooking the books at their own organizations but wre "punished" with large golden parachutes when they were forced out.

Bush and his cabinet could do little about this. In the United States, Congress holds the purse strings.


11

,

09/10/2008 02:37:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Bend Over,

09/10/2008 02:43:39
"New World Order"

Hahahaha, hilarious.

More like a Brave New World, or 1984.

Anyway folks, the party is over, we have been living on credit for 30 years and the "man" wants his money back. Both major parties have conspired to wreck our economy, all the ship yards, steel mills, textile mills, coal mines have gone, the cupboard is bare.

You can't support a country of 60 million people by selling each other Chinese imports and dodgy financial services.

We have no one to blame but ourselves for electing the traitors. Check out the Sun http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1780948.ece
The country is bankrupt, our own people are sleeping in cardboard boxes and we are paying £12000 a month to house immigrants.

Hahaha, we have been well and truly screwed, it goes down fast from now on.
13

,

09/10/2008 02:51:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Forward not Back,

09/10/2008 03:15:06
#11 - the guilty people are the central bankers for not controlling the money supply properly.

You obviously think that's deliberate. If so, what was the need to create the super derivatives that no one understood in the first place, or was that all part of the masterplan?
15

US Cavalry,

Virginia, USA 09/10/2008 03:48:09
Beware the Bonesmen,
The Bush's are members and as many world finacial leaders. First you destroy individual country's economy and then come's the New World Order bringing hope and prosparity. Might even call it the Fourth Reich but global. Damn the Bush's and Cheney are good.
Oh and did I forget to mention, so is Cheney a Bonesmen.
16

,

09/10/2008 04:30:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

,

09/10/2008 05:33:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Ursus arctos horribilis,

09/10/2008 05:34:30
The fact that the Libour numptie at #15 thinks this is a good plan should tell you everything you need to know.

The root of this problem has been the inadequate under-pricing of risk due to the low-interest rate, credit expansionist policy pusued under Greenspan in the US over the past nearly two decades years and copied by The Iron Chancellor -what a truly sick joke that moniker is-the man whose master-stroke was to sell all our gold reserves for a pittance and who has helped create the biggest financial bubble in recent history.

A boom based on debt that is about to go bust -spectacularly.

The suggested solution from the dynamic duo-financial novices-who have been behind the curve all the way?-Cut interest rates?? This will only perpetuate the problem and shore up over-valued asset prices. And what will happen when the estimated $55 trillion in Credit Default Swaps washing around the market that dont even appear on any banks balance sheets -come into play and trigger even more carnage? The markets have lost all confidence.

If we had any armed forces left I would surmise that like in some banana republic they would presently be contemplating taking control in the national interest and ousting these charlatans in a coup d'etat -but like everything else they get their mits on Liebour have run our proud services down as well and have them fighting futile wars in Iraq in Afghanistan.

The lesson : Never trust Labour in power-this will be their third attempt at trying to bankrupt the country -and quite possibly their most successful.

After their last effort in government we had to endure the pain of Thatcher whose solution was to destroy industry- whatever the social cost -and reduce the national debt by selling all the national silver via a massive privatization scheme.

This time the prospective incoming Tory Government will have nothing of any value left to sell -apart from the banks-only they wont even have those because apparently the Governm
19

Ursus arctos horribilis,

09/10/2008 05:42:50
Cont.

This time the prospective incoming Tory Government will have nothing of any value left to sell -apart from the banks-only they wont even have those because apparently the Government has taken Preference shares rather than equity!!

I dont see how this can be avoided-the bill has now arrived for the over-indulgence and living beyond our means and enormous wealth that has accrued to a minority while the majority are up to their necks in debt. The reality is that the success of the US/UK rescue packages depends as much on the support of China and the Middle East providing the finance as it does on the taxpayer-a frightening prospect!
20

Stuart F.,

Vancouver, B. C. 09/10/2008 05:42:53
Does anyone remember the Reaganomics thingy? Let's face it folks, the Banks have been doing this lending to each other for years, more so in the Excited States than in Canada.Thin Air is right, there is no easy fix in this financial mess-up. And isn't amazing that major banks will continue to worry about their profit margins but screw their employees out of benefits and full time hours etc, while nickel and diming their customers with stupid service charges. Where does all that money go?
21

Pilrig,

Livingston 09/10/2008 05:45:26
Keynes rules OK
22

Pilrig,

Livingston 09/10/2008 05:48:05
7 - Alf Garnett has moved to Texas
23

,

09/10/2008 05:48:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 09/10/2008 06:03:12
Greenspan deserves most of the blame in my opinion. The great bubble blower. But it's all human natural cycles. Kondratief was right. Check out www.thelongwaveanalyst.ca or www.elliottwave.com for some education folks. And if you think the Fed and the fiat money system is good then check this out..http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531
Buy GOLD..it gets much, much worse than this folks.
25

Ursus arctos horribilis,

09/10/2008 06:05:34
To understand the extent of the US dependence on overseas support :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/margareta-pagano/margareta-pagano-will-china-tip-the-us-balance-of-financial-terror-951396.html


"Foreign countries now own nearly a quarter, some $2.6 trillion, of the total US debt. They also own more than $14 trillion in US assets – that's more than the total US national output.
By far the biggest chunk of this debt is still owned by the Japanese, with US Treasuries worth $593.4bn. But soaring up the debt table is China, which now controls $518.7bn, more than 8 per cent higher over the past year, and equal to about half of the total $1.2 trillion it holds in reserve assets. Oil-rich states are also snapping up T-bills as though they are going out of fashion – up 29 per cent on the year to $173bn. On top of this, the US has a trade deficit with China in the first six months of this year of $142bn – and it is still growing. "

The big thing in the US's favour is that these lender countries have a symbiotic relaionship with Uncle Sam -at the moment they both need each other.Like a junkie the US is in too deep to Japan/China as it continues to rack-up massive trade deficits to preserve its over-indulgent lifestyle and the highest standard of living on the planet. Chinese growth is reliant on being able to export to the US and if these lenders did pull out it would destroy the dollar/ and hurt their own investments denominated in $assets. The fact that the dollar has been strengthening suggests that they are willing to continue to support as further evidenced by Asian banks recently buying American banks. However consider the longer-term implications re global power.

As for the impact of this on the UK-well we are the de facto 51st state -without enjoying the benefits of the US standard of living- and if US sneezes we get the flu or worse!
26

Ursus arctos horribilis,

09/10/2008 06:13:10
#27 please do us all a favour and stick to posting your puerile nonsense on the football topics and leave the serious stuff to the adults!
27

Ursus arctos horribilis,

09/10/2008 06:33:40
#26 To be fair George Soros has been calling this one right for some time and is probalby umteen billions to the good.

Here's a quote by a former director of the Bank of England:

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough money to buy it back again?

Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit." - Josiah Stamp (Director of the Bank of England, 1928-194)

And from the Masters themselves:

"The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests." The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
28

Ubi,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 06:43:30
A new convention in spin has emerged from this fiasco. Costs and risks are borne by "government". Benefits and returns, however unlikely, are to be enjoyed by the "tax payer".

The reality of course is that we - who did not ask our government to give away our money - pick up the whole tab. £16,000 each I hear to finance Fred Goodwin's and others' madness.
29

Drum Major,

risbane, Australia 09/10/2008 06:47:19
George Bush senior announced the 'New World Order' in 1990. George W is just following the script. It is about a One World Government by bankers. Barry Smith (1933-2002) told you so.
30

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 09/10/2008 06:52:59
Barry Smith wrote a series of books between 1980 & 2002 about the New World Order and warning of the present events.
31

,

09/10/2008 06:55:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 09/10/2008 06:56:06
Google Barry Smith.
33

,

09/10/2008 07:10:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

subwo,

Colorado, USA 09/10/2008 07:14:38
One should watch the first part of the Google Video: Zeitgeist Addendum. (released 2 Oct 08) It shows how the money in the fractional reserve system is created from thin air and debt will soon be unable to be paid back to the centeral banks for the interest is too much.
35

donald,

glasgow 09/10/2008 07:17:49
It was a;ll caused by greed and speculation and the fact that the bankers did not rust each other end reneged on their gambling debts.
36

W Smith,

Middle East 09/10/2008 07:19:40
Gordon Brown has spent on average 400 billion pounds a year to keep the UK's public sector going, spending a massive total of 4 trillion pounds as his time as Chancellor.

Our Gordon spent some of this cash on the small army of new employees (600,000) he hired for the unproductive Public Sector.

If only he had ran a surplus rather than a deficit, as the IMF advised, things might have turned out a little better.
37

,

09/10/2008 07:19:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/10/2008 07:24:51
What we need to do going forward is to follow the Norwegian model. I am suprised no one has mentioned this.

Nevsky tried following a Norwegian Model once. He got arrested for stalking though and got 5 years in the Gulag.
39

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/10/2008 07:30:44
The current crisis has certainly dealt a fatal blow to the independence cause thats for sure.

Two of our biggest employers will now be in hock to the Bank of England for years to come.

Everybody else works in the public sector with guaranteed gold plated pensions.

A totally unsustainable situation for an independent Scotland.

Especially with oil heading to $50 a barrel.
40

Vote UKIP,

09/10/2008 07:45:29
ENDGAME- ALEX JONES - Blueprint for Global Enslavement

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&ei=UantSIG4II2wiALfyJm9Bg&q=endgame+alex+jones
41

Dave,

Isle of Barra 09/10/2008 07:51:50
Where is this £500 Billion package coming from? Is Gordon simply printing the money?

Lets hope not or we are in for a spell of hyper inflation (like Zimbabwae).

Somebody said to me the other day that this could be the work of terrorists i.e. can't beat our military might but can beat our financial institutions (hence the World Trade Centre tradgedy).

Either way, we are in for a bumpy ride.
42

,

09/10/2008 07:52:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
43

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 09/10/2008 07:55:52
£16,000 per person in the UK is, if the D Mail sums are right, what each of us has to pay to save the system from breakdown.

This translates into huge inflation, demands for wage increases and unemployment.

Nasty medicine, so let's hope the cure is better than the disease. Then it might be worth the sacrifices we're about to have to make.

Only Albanian champagne from now on for my breakfasts.
44

Unimpressed one,

09/10/2008 08:00:19
By this time next year this will all seem like a bad dream. Hopefully banks will be reined in and the housing market stabilised. By 2010 we will be in growth again.
45

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:04:15
"Countless people ... will hate the new world order ... and will die protesting it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we have to bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people."
(H.G. Wells)

He's talking about YOU.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&ei=ZqztSP33F42wiALfyJm9Bg&q=america+freedom+to+fascism

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&ei=pRDUSKjqKou2iALIufHTAg&q=endgame
46

Boy Wonder,

09/10/2008 08:09:17
Will those responsible for the present mess ever be brought to justice??? We know who they are ... corrupt bankers and politicians all out to make a buck, regardless of the rest of us!
47

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:13:03
The only thing that surprises me about this situation is that few people realise it was planned and didnt just happen.
48

Xena - Warrior Princess,

09/10/2008 08:13:46
I agree that greed is the motivating factor in all this, I sincerely hope that the City and the Bankers do not have the nerve to award themselves bonuses this year.
49

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:15:14
44

So by your unassailable logic Rufus 6 months every independent nation on the planet better get their a*ses in gear and join up to the union pronto before they go under simply for being indepedent outside of this union.
50

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:15:49
53 parcel
Who planned it and why?
51

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 08:17:32
Ugly George @57

Terrorists and to bring down the West. They don't like us you know......
52

Boab,

Glasgow 09/10/2008 08:18:30
#32 Ubi: Another paper worked it out at £20K per taxpayer. Hey, remember Labour proclaiming that independence will cost us £5,000 each?
53

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:18:44
52

Smeagal all you ever post is "scare" figures and data.
For you to complain about somebody else posting inaccurate and dodgy data is like listening to Hitler complaining about somebody passing gas in a crowded room.
54

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:20:27
57

Maybe it was you Ugly? and the why is for personal profit as always.
You wont see any of our top politicians going under with their investments thats for sure.
55

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:20:57
52 sm753
The crucial thing now for the taxpayer is whether the banks return to profitability. If they do, then their share prices should recover and this might turn out to be a good investment for the taxpayer.
56

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:21:28
57

Which part of Edinburgh are you going to pretend you live in Ugly?
57

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:22:38
61 parcel
Are you saying this was all planned by politicians?
58

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:23:43
63 parcel
Why should I pretend to live in Edinburgh?
59

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:23:58
#51

This "New World Order" caper is about much more than bankers and politicians trying to make a buck.
This is a very old plan to create a global system of political and financial control run by elite international Bankers.
A World Government.
Take a look at the videos that "Vote UKIP" and I posted, all will be explained.......

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the
nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller
60

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:24:46
65

Because you dont even live in Scotland yet you want to post as if you do.
61

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:25:29
64

Yes are you saying it wasnt?
62

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:27:20
68 parcel
I am saying that I doubt if it was planned. You are the one saying that it was. So why don't you answer the question. Who planned it and why?
63

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:28:06
69

Well if I knew the details I would be one of the richest men on the planet wouldnt I?
64

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:29:02
69

So which part of Edinburgh are you going to pretend you live in Ugly?
65

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:30:32
67 Parcel
Once again false info. I do live in Edinburgh and, last time I checked, Edinburgh is in Scotland. What is this anyway - are you trying to claim that just because I offer details that you disagree with that I don't live in Scotland. Is there a rule that says everybody in Scotland must agree with you.
66

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:33:04
72

What false info Ugly? Ok so yer fae Edinburgh.
Where in Edinburgh was Cox's glue factory?
67

,

09/10/2008 08:36:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
68

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:36:26
72

Ok if thats too hard for you how about the union canal do you know where the draw bridge is?
69

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:38:02
72

How about what Davidsons mains used to be called previously?
70

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:39:13
72

Oh come on ok heres an easy peasy one what was the Willie Muir?
71

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 08:39:49
Thinair

Didn't know Bin Laden was the only Muslim in the world! Gosh!

Yes, of course, the muslim world loves the West have proclaim that at every opportunity, eh? They also don't want to introduce Sharia law into Scotland nor did the Glasgow airport bombing ever happen.....
72

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:40:28
72

Whose memorial stands on the junction of North Charlotte and St Colms?
73

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:40:41
71 parcel
I actually live in the Brunsfield area which is on the South side of the city which is why I did not know which bus to get to Stockbridge as you asked the other day as Stockbridge is on the North side. From here you can get ano 11,16 bus down Lothian Road to Princes St (when access is available because of work laying the lines for the trams)

Alternatively you can get a no23 which turns right at Tollcross and goes down the Mound past Waverley Station. You can also go down to Polwarth Terrace and get a no 10 into town as well. If you want to go out of town to Heriot Watt Uni at Riccarton (just past the garden centre) you go up to Colinton Road and get a no.45. If you get off the no 45 before it turns right at Currie Primary School you can get on a 44 to Balerno

The weather in Edinburgh today is quite mild with some high broken cloud and there is a light breeze as I can see looking out the window. Please withdraw your false assertion that I do not live in Edinburgh.
74

Richard Lionheart,

09/10/2008 08:41:52
"WE HAVE ENDED BOOM & BUST"

Gordon Brown, PM & Leader of the Labour Party

Comment made by GB 500Bn Times in last 12 months!

Trust me I'm Gordon! "Mandy" is joined to me at the Hip
75

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:41:53
72

Well now Ugly, now that we have established yer dishonesty and the fact that you are more than likely posting from Labour party HQ LONDON we can continue on that basis from now on eh.
76

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:43:16
80

Nothing you couldnt pick up off the web Ugly including the weather Christ you can pick up real time views of any city in the UK via their CCTV system on the Web these days.
77

Doh,

09/10/2008 08:44:21

The important thing now is to get government of the backs of the bankers.

We need to use the talent in the City, coupled with the market forces, to reform public services.

There is no point throwing money at a problem.

That is why City bankers are willing to work for so little renumeration.
78

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 08:44:26
Ugly Geoarge and Sucha

You are boviously not too bothered about the emerging new world order, the economy going belly up, where Brown is getting £500 billion from, the war in Afghanistan, Muslims wanting to introduce Sharia law, the loss of millions of pounds, global warming/climate change and other general "bad stuff".

However, the rest of us are. We don't care whether you live in Edinburgh or the moon. Keep your petty squabblings for playtime.

Thanks
79

,

09/10/2008 08:47:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:49:04
85

WTF asked for your opinion?
81

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 08:51:21
Thinair

Aye, the Glesga airport waan't the best thought out plan. Strangely, it was Doctors that organised it but then again, they were doped out thier heads.

I'm only hgihlighting a conspiracy theory to throw in with the rest. It holds as much water as any other. And the Muslims would do anything to bring down the west and if you look hard enough, you can make 2+2 add up to all sorts of numbers!
82

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 08:52:29
87

Charming. I'll express an opinion whether you like it or not. What you gonna do? Cry? Throw your dummy out the pram? You don't even live in Scotland.
83

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:54:03
88

"And the Muslims would do anything to bring down the west and if you look hard enough, you can make 2+2 add up to all sorts of numbers!"

Including invading our counties? bombing the sh*t out of our cities and starving hundreds of thousands of our children to death?
84

Prudence,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:54:52
57
The "New World order" and their numptie followers . Follow the real money. As we say in Scotland , a fool and their money is easily parted .
85

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 08:55:48
85 Dave
You are quite right. I will stop wasting my time on this. If parcel choses to distort things and refuses to believe facts in this manner that is his problem
86

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:56:14
89

Just expressing my own opinion what are you going to do about it cry? fling yer dummy? and yes I do live in Scotland and in Edinburgh probably one of the very few on here who actually does.
87

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 08:57:04
92

What would a Labour party political troll know about facts? apart from how to avoid or distort them?
88

Richard Lionheart,

09/10/2008 08:57:47
Sadly, the lack of confidence is now in the Loan books of the banks.

The British public is over borrowed over taxed and underpaid.

The 0.5% reduction in base rate will have little effect on what is now the underlying problem. What it does is reduce the incomes of those who now rely on income from their savings, many of whom have seen their values wiped out in stock market investments.

Liquidity must be injected directly into the pockets of “Joe Public”, that means far reaching cuts in indirect taxation NOW.

There is NO room for more dithering from G Brown or Alistair (Orville) Darling
89

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 08:57:54
93

No you don't. You've never stepped foot in Scotland.

Express away, I will never deny anybody thier right to an opinion on the subject at hand. Unlike yourself.
90

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 09:00:08
96

I thought you were concerned about the issues?
What a hypocrite getting bogged in personal posts.
Stones and glass houses sunshine.
91

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 09:02:07
97

awwwww. Didums. Big word for you "hypocrite". Use it wisely.

Right, to hand. We're doomed. We have borrowed too much and over inflated the housing market. Where has all the money gone though?
92

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 09:06:24
98

The money has all gone into a few selective pockets as it usually does.
Dont you just love conservative capitalism when it all goes to plan?
93

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 09:08:35
98 Dave
"Where has all the money gone though?"
That,in a sense, encapsulates the issue. Much of the talk about £billions refers to assets as opposed to actual cash but assets are only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for them. The housing market is a classic example. Many of the assets of the banks are in terms of mortgages on peoples houses. If the housing market slumps then the assets of the banks slump.
94

Dave,

Western Isles 09/10/2008 09:09:24
Whose pockets though Such? Money just doesn't dissappear so somebody(s) is sitting on a hugh pile of it.

The banks have stopped lending to each other but surely they still have money to lend?
95

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 09/10/2008 09:15:17
Oh god this whole financial collapse is devastating, the world is on the brink and millions of people are dying. Yet I still managed to commute 30 miles to work to earn enough cash to pay these bankers a huge bonus...Talk about Mountains and Molehills, who cares if the bank manager loses his job he deserves to be treated to a healthy dose of reality as a punishment for his greed.
96

tommytommy,

09/10/2008 09:26:18
The happenings of the past few days seem to have stopped the Nationalists in their tracks.

If RBS and HBOS had gone to the wall in an independent Scotland where would the Scottish economy be today?

Independent Nationalist Governed Iceland has gone bankrupt and their currency is in free fall.The value of Icelanders wages has shrunk dramatically.
Iceland was the model used by Nationalists as the one Scotland would follow.

Now I am not trying to score points here so please dont let off steam at me.

I would like to know what would have happened in Scotland if it had been independently governed because it looks from here that its economic survival is dependent on support from central government and the Bank of England.

97

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 09:27:40
101

Exactly the money is still there as Ugly for once correctly says as assets and shifted investments i.e from shares to natural resourses property even arms and weapons which is very profitable these days.
98

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 09:30:38
103

Its happening to us within the union as well numbnuts. this scale of catastrophe doesnt affect nor concern itself with political union of parliaments.
What this does highlight though is Scotland complete helplessness to deal with its own problems within the union.
99

Prudence,

Scotland 09/10/2008 09:49:22
"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., in Foreign Affairs (July/August 1995)

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole."
Professor Carroll Quigley of Georgetown University, highly esteemed by his former student, William Jefferson Blythe Clinton.

"The world can therefore seize the opportunity [Persian Gulf crisis] to fulfill the long-held promise of a New World Order " George Herbert Walker Bush.

100

tommytommy,

09/10/2008 09:50:40
105

Dont let off steam at me .It doesnt answer the case for Nationalism.

It is happening now but why would a Nationalist Govt.be any different?What solutions does Nationalism bring to an economic slump.?

As I said Iceland has gone broke under a Nationalist Govt.that was used by the SNP as the model to follow.

I am only stating fact without an opinion.

What is the Nationalist position?
Convince me that Nationalism is in my interests.

Please dont become abusive because it causes pain as well as avoiding the issue.
101

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 09/10/2008 09:53:25
If all this is the result of a conspiracy, then let's have the solid proof please.

Paranoid conspiracy theorists are part of the problem, not the solution. They should seek psychiatric help, and now.
102

The Strategist,

09/10/2008 10:11:49
#103 tommytommy

A fair question which I was actually discussing last night with some friends. Here's my take on it.

First and foremost if Scotland had been independent then it is very unlikely that we would have had the problem in the first place. In addition and just as importantly I don't believe the rump of the UK would have had the same problem either.

The reason for my saying this is that we would now be running our economy in a far more balanced fashion (more manufacturing/product devt etc) similar to the Norwegians because of course we would have had the benefit of oil. As a consequence, what we think of now as large banks (RBS and HBOS) would probably be much smaller and concentrating more on supporting regionally biased operations rather than attempting to satisfy mainly London based fund managers by pushing for excessive and what's turned out to be highly risky growth strategies and activities that are not particularly economically patriotic.

A smaller UK without large oil revenues would of course been less able to fund Thatcher's economic restructuring in the 80s and so the likelihood of bank deregulation and the growth in City activities would have been small and the shift towards what is called the Anglo Saxon economic model would probably never have happened.


103

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 09/10/2008 10:18:54
#s 20, 22m etc URSUS ARCTOS HORRIBILUS

This is Latin for "Horrible/Fightening Arctic Bear (Polar Bear?)".

Would ye be Canadian, by the way?
104

The Strategist,

09/10/2008 10:18:55
Actually Iceland is not "the model" that an independent Scotland is likely to have followed because Iceland's economy is very different. Norway's model is the most likely one for us to have followed.

105

kallaskander,

09/10/2008 10:19:00
Isn`t it amazing?

Now that the fiasco is slowly building up to unimagined heights so called world leaders call for time.

The same people and nations that paved the way for what is happening at the moment treaty by treaty and contract by contract and thereby abolishing the system of Milton Keynes which held the world economy stable for years demand international rules and regulations today.

Isn`t it ironic?

First of all US America who drove the globalisation without mercy as long as it was in her interest now cries wolf because she is hit maybe the hardest. Most probably the demage is the greatest in the Land of the Free. And who did this huge damage?

Where did the the financial zunami originate?
At the moment the US are keen to stem the tide. Small wonder.
Have they learned? Will they?

If there are international measures being taken the rest of the world should see to it that they help the whole world not only the short term interests of some incabable finance jugglers.

It is always the same with us human beings it seems: We are intelligent enough to do it. But not intelligent enough to do it not.

That does not only apply to finance.
106

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 09/10/2008 10:19:29
"New World Order: Global co-operation, nationalisation and state intervention" in 2006 the Stern Review predicted that all this, and more, would have to take place if global markets were not to fail. Our leaders did not act, and we did not force them to. If the underlying issues are not addressed this could prove to be the tip of the iceberg.
107

frank mcbride,

lusitania 09/10/2008 10:33:56
# Suchaparcelofrogues.

You input to any thread is garbage, generally offensive and disruptive.

You can, therefore, legitimately be classed a Troll.

Your Trolling, on behalf of your Unionist masters, may have had some effect had it not been, for the fact, that your handler attempted to amplify your stupidity by introducing us to Ugly George.

Begone Troll.
108

Fairfax,

09/10/2008 10:35:43
TheStrategist (110): "The reason for my saying this is that we would now be running our economy in a far more balanced fashion (more manufacturing/product devt etc) similar to the Norwegians because of course we would have had the benefit of oil."

This deserves to be debunked. You seem to have forgotten that the Norwegians had a very similar financial crisis in the early 1990s, affecting some 2/3 of their banking system and resulting in part-nationalization of their three largest banks; see

http://www.norges-bank.no/templates/article____13822.aspx

"attempting to satisfy mainly London based fund managers"

Those nasty people in London again. Of course, Scots never do that.

"A smaller UK without large oil revenues would of course been less able to fund Thatcher's economic restructuring in the 80s"

Oil income was important in the latte 1970s and very early 1980s, but had ceased to be so by, say, 1984: for most of the past quarter-century, the Treasury oil tax-take has been roughly 1% of English GDP. In any case, the main cost of Thatcher's restructuring was unemployment benefit, so losing Scotland earlier would have helped Thatcher. If anything, without Scotland, I suspect that England would have become more dominated by finance, not less.
109

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 09/10/2008 10:37:51
Are Fred Goodwin and Tom McKillop staying in position or being replaced? Anyone know ?
110

Fairfax,

09/10/2008 10:38:28
kallaskander (113): "thereby abolishing the system of Milton Keynes which held the world economy stable for years demand international rules and regulations today."

Important though the town of Milton Keynes is, you're presumably referring to John Maynard Keynes, and presumably the Bretton Woods agreement?
111

Cheezy,

EK 09/10/2008 10:51:32
The New World Order??? yes this is really what is happening!!! yeah its takin over the world we are all going to become one!! there setting us up so we can all live in harmony and be controlled!!! eh NOT!!! what a load of paranoid mince!!!

People who have commented on this are blatantly not right in the head!! i mean whos at the head of this world order??? whats the point in all these stupid conspiracies??? its people who thought stupid paranoid thoughts in the first place that caused the negative thoughts that have brought the world economy to the brink of collapse!

lets think seriously for a moment!! come on!!!
112

Fairfax,

09/10/2008 10:52:02
tommytommy(103): "The happenings of the past few days seem to have stopped the Nationalists in their tracks."

Scottish nationalists possibly. I think it's helping English nationalism.

"If RBS and HBOS had gone to the wall in an independent Scotland where would the Scottish economy be today?"

The English government would presumably have assumed control of their English components, as occurred for Kaupthing today. Since the vast majority of depositors are English, both banks would have seen their capital base reduced to near zero, had a run occurred. The liability to Scotland would have presumably been in the hundreds of billions -- the only source of income on this scale would be to securitize oil, or to simply deed it to England. However, since such bank failure would also cause England enormous problems, I suspect there would then have been a joint nationalization of both banks by the English and Scottish governments, with the former the dominant partner: RBS and HBOS would have essentially become English banks. In other words, had Scotland been independent, it would not be about to become an English economic dependency. Plus ca change . . .


"I would like to know what would have happened in Scotland if it had been independently governed because it looks from here that its economic survival is dependent on support from central government and the Bank of England."

By central government", presumably you mean English taxpayers, who provide some 90% of the UK tax take? It's useful to remember the source of these funds.
113

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 10:52:38
107

"Dont let off steam at me .It doesnt answer the case for Nationalism."

What are you on about? the global financial meltdown doesnt present a case for or against national independence nor for or against political union.
Its a global financial meltdown kicked off by the global war for oil resourses under the false lable of a war on terror.
Your the phuqing troll trying to pass this off as some case against Scotlands Independent aspirations because you have no real arguments nor can you build a case to present against it.
114

Doh,

09/10/2008 10:56:26
#118

Isnt most of Bretton Woods now defunct (currency control etc)?

115

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 09/10/2008 10:56:28
108

If there were solid proof there would be no conspiricy it would be a fact you prat.
Cash for honours is a conspiricy theory simply because the police are not allowed to investigate and prosecute.
116

Fairfax,

09/10/2008 10:57:16
120: "it would not be about to become an English economic dependency. Plus ca change . . ."

Of course this should have read "it would be about to become an English economic dependency