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'Big Brother' fears over phone and net use record



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Published Date: 16 October 2008
PLANS to gather and record millions of pieces of information about everyone's internet and telephone habits were last night branded "Orwellian".
Police and the security services say terrorists and organised crime gangs are becoming increasingly sophisticated in the way they use new technology to evade detection.

Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, said the alternative to collecting more data was an expensive and intrusive "expansion" of surveillance. She pointed to the convictions of the 21 July bombers and Soham killer Ian Huntley as cases where electronic data collection was vital.

But opponents of the legislation, which will go out for consultation in the New Year, fear the growth of the "Big Brother" state and question whether the government can be trusted to record personal information.

The Labour MP Keith Vaz said he would be asking the home affairs select committee to review the proposals. He said: "Extreme caution needs to be taken when considering the extension of the State's surveillance powers."



The full article contains 169 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 October 2008 9:56 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

,

16/10/2008 01:54:19
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2

,

16/10/2008 01:55:56
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3

Solo Lobo,

16/10/2008 02:01:08
Data to be retained: internet access, internet e-mail or internet telephony

7. The following data must be retained as respects internet access, internet e-mail or internet telephony-

A. Data necessary to trace and identify the source of a communication:
(a) the user ID allocated;
(b) the user ID and telephone number allocated to the communication entering the public
telephone network;
(c) the name and address of the subscriber or registered user to whom an Internet Protocol (IP) address, user ID or telephone number was allocated at the time of the communication.

B. Data necessary to identify the destination of a communication:
(a) in the case of internet telephony, the user ID or telephone number of the intended recipient of the call;
(b) in the case of internet e-mail or internet telephony, the name and address of the subscriber or registered user and the user ID of the intended recipient of the communication.
C. Data necessary to identify the date, time and duration of a communication:
(a) in the case of internet access--
(i) the date and time of the log-in to and log-of from the internet access service, based on a specified time zone,
(ii) the IP address, whether dynamic or static, allocated by the internet access service
provider to the communication, and
(iii) the user ID of the subscriber or registered user of the internet access service;
___________________________________________________

The actual user of such a broadband / WiFi internet gateway, is not necessarily the subscriber who pays the bill.

This does not necessarily tell an investigator that a particular person was at a particular computer at a particular time. Many email systems connected to broadband or other always on connections, periodically log into and download emails, say every 10 minutes or so, automatically, whether anyone is sitting at a computer or not. This adds an extra layer of "reasonable doubt" into any attempt to use such Communications Traffic Data
4

Pilrig,

Livingston 16/10/2008 06:08:25
It wont be abused they say. Just like the anti-terror act was used against terrorists like Labour dissident Walter Wolfgang, and last week the target was the terrorist state of Iceland.
5

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16/10/2008 06:14:28
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6

SouthernSkye,

16/10/2008 07:25:39
The more I see of the UK/Browns Govt "Anti-Terrorism" and financial and tax planning ideas, the more I think of emigrating...just a matter of finding somewhere that is less dictatorial !
7

Guga II,

Rockall 16/10/2008 07:30:51
This is Maggie Broon and his Stalinist, totalitarian, control freak New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party.

It's only a matter of time before they pass legislation to have every one of us micro-chipped, with chip readers in every lamp-post and on every street corner.

The only saving grace for the people is the government's total incompetence when it comes to large scale computer projects.

The terrorists here are Maggie Broon and his government, with their aim of eliminating all of our freedoms and human rights.

I would strongly advise all the younger people in this country to emigrate to get away from New Labour's attempt at initiating a fascist dictatorship in the YUK; as well as their destruction of the economy.
8

danbob,

16/10/2008 08:21:39
The IRA didn't use the internet and they were fairly successful in a lot of their campaigns. At the moment these idiot terrorists use the internet and it's giving the game away. Don't drive them off it or the success rate may climb.
9

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 16/10/2008 10:10:42
This is a step too far.

Although Jacqui Smith sounds like a numpty, it was fairly sinister to hear her trotting out all the excuses this Stalinist government needs to implement even more control over its citizens.

Having messed up the banking system and being engaged in not one but two pointless wars they now seek to batten down the hatches and stop any dissent. This measure must be resisted firmly.
10

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 16/10/2008 10:35:34
May I disillusion some of our contributors and of course the esteemed writer of this article?
We have been monitored by our government for a very long time, remember when our government de-neighed that they monitored our phone calls, it was true just as it was a fact that the same statement was made in America. The only problem was each country was monitoring the other on behalf of each government.

Coming more up to date Margaret Thatcher when in office set up an internet trawling service which cost £250 million this service could trace every key stroke on every computer in this country. It was illegal of course, so evidence gathered by this means could not be used in court, but having found that evidence it was then possible to acquire a warrant and knock on the door.

Now before that esteemed lady left office she up-graded the system and spent somewhat similar amount of monies once more.

When the current incumbents entered office you can be assured they have been spending even more, collecting all the relevant data on you and me, but it is still illegal, so a way of incorporating into an act of parliament has to be found without actually disclosing what it is all about.

So we had the anti-terrorism act, this was to add to our security! Then we have a global banking failure, and that anti-terrorism act is used to freeze the assets of another country in the United Kingdom.

I ask you all was that action by our government in our name, what we were told as being what that same anti-terrorism act was for?

Great care has to be exercised in monitoring our representatives in Parliament, their words and actions are used to place in the media a loss leader to grab our attention in order that the “bad news” in the Act is buried.
11

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 14:49:07
Before anyone gets panicky about this and starts screaming "human rights" etc, stop and think for a bit. Think of the huge amount of data that flows around the internet in the UK just in e-mails alone every day. Think what an enormous task it would be to analyse them all and decide whether action needs to be taken on them. Now add to that the even larger amount of data from web-browsing activities and downloads.

The task of sifting through it all is imense. Smith is just showing her ignorance if she thinks that it can all be analysed in an "Orwellian" manner because of the threat of "terrorism".

She is simply too stupid to realise that analysis of data traffic on a network needs to be targetted, usually to a specific individual or group of individuals. It cannot be done unversally on every bit of traffic on said network because the amount of data gathered would be enormous beyond all expectations. This is especially true if one is talking about the internet, where traffic bound for all kinds of destinations may be routed through the UK's servers and gateways.

Anyone who has seen the log for even a small web site will be aware of the fact that so much data exists, it needs to be analysed by means of a program. Even then, the amount of data may be so large as to be meaningless.

I don't think any normal people need to concern themselves too much. It is just a stupid labour minister banging on about something she knows nothing about. If you have any concerns, just use public/private key encryption. PGP or GPG is quite good and is virtually un-crackable, even by security services, which is the reason why it is banned in the USA.
12

David Gerard,

London 16/10/2008 15:09:56
I have the answer: They can use DRM on it! It's worked perfectly to protect music and software, there's no way it won't work for every detail of your personal life. What could possibly go wrong?

Blog rant: http://notnews.today.com/?p=152
13

Mcsnagpile,

16/10/2008 16:15:37
Aye we are going to monitor millions of tons of blogging rubbish and keep it under the bed for prosterity.
14

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16/10/2008 16:49:48
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15

Kipling,

16/10/2008 17:30:40
Jeeemy,St Andrews. I like your use of the term loss-leader, it fits into the general directing of attention that this government does. Remember the flight BA038 from Beijing that was saved from crashing into heathrow by the quickwitted actions of the pilots earlier this year - the newspaper coverage of this allowed very few paragraphs on current trade discussions between Broon & the Chinese. For many businesses this friendly trade discussion will have a very long term significant impact as we import more and more cheap Chinese goods (steel, etc.) into the country. But the issues went by virtually without public discussion because of the more sensational ticket to crash from Beijing.

Your remarks also enlighten curious experiences concerning monitoring of post and internet I have living in a Labour stronghold but anything I've chased up usually comes to a dead end with my network analysis software (possibly due to being an electronic dud & not dude head!). Any technical explanation of procedure to check on network cleanliness gratefully received.
16

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 16/10/2008 18:56:11
Yes, the sort of undemocratic legislation that makes some people proud to be British!

I don't know why HMG worry so much about terrorist organsations taking away our freedoms when they are doing it for them.

BTW, How about that government Gent on the News tonight telling us that Trident etc was continuing to guarantee our freedom, pity nobody asked him the obvious question, if our freedome is guaranteed, why do we need so much so called anti-terror legislation?
17

JayDeeTee,

16/10/2008 19:19:29
#11. Excellent post sir.
18

Jwil,

17/10/2008 00:22:06
What would the side effects of such a system be? Could criminals redirect calls to make them look as though they have come from another source, that of an innocent person for example?

Who would get to use the information?

Supposedly they are not going to be listening to conversations but just to look at the directions of calls and who is sending them, but it would only be a step away from monitoring everything.

The best way to stop this is to vote the Labour government out of office.

19

Jwil,

17/10/2008 00:26:40
The use of key words and phrases would reduce the need for human intervention until there is an alarm flagged up, so the software could monitor millions of calls, however there would still be the opportunity for anyone with access to use the info unscrupulously.
20

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17/10/2008 03:20:27
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tomi,

17/10/2008 04:39:08
Soon in Britain people will look back and think just how free people used to be in the old Soviet Union under Stalin!

Think that North Korea is bad? Just wait and see how bad Britain will become if we do not stop this government mentality of total surveilance.

 

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