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Alex Salmond: Scotland 'didn't mind' Thatcher economics



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Published Date: 21 August 2008
ALEX Salmond has said Scotland "didn't mind the economic side" to Margaret Thatcher, but disapproved of the "social" implications of her policies.
In a revealing interview with Total Politics magazine, the First Minister said many businesses had "warmed to the SNP" after he had strived to bring his party "into the mainstream of Scotland".

Mr Salmond also accused David Cameron's Conservative
s of being anti-Scottish, dismissing all speculation that the party had talks to form a coalition with the Tories after the next Westminster election.

In remarks that will fuel criticism that the SNP has adopted a free-market, tax-cutting agenda more in tune with the Thatcher legacy, Mr Salmond said: "The SNP has a strong social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself.

"One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

The remarks could prove risky for the SNP, as the party used the image of Lady Thatcher and her perceived closeness to Gordon Brown in anti-Labour pamphlets for the Glasgow East by-election.

There has been speculation that the SNP had been in talks to prop up the Tories after the next election at Westmintser, but Mr Salmond said there was no chance at all of the two parties going into coalition in London.

However he confirmed that a hung parliament would be the best result at the next general election.

Asked whether he could "do business" with Mr Cameron, Mr Salmond replied: "The Tories have been more constructive than other opposition parties in the Scottish Parliament but I don't think you have to scratch very hard to see real anti-Scottish antagonism from many elements of the Conservative Party. I don't think the leopard has changed its spots."

He added that the "wrapping has changed somewhat" but "I think the leopard is still there".

Speaking to Tory blogger Iain Dale, Mr Salmond also revealed that the first time his own father had heard him speak in a parliamentary chmaber was during his first address as First Minister.

"He didn't really approve of me setting foot in the House of Commons. It was a hell of a moment."

Mr Salmond said he did not "do daunted" but admitted the Glasgow airport attack had left him a "bit daunted".

He had been watching TV with Sean Connery when the news came in.

The First Minister had even changed the name of the Emergency Room – the room meant to deal with such national crises – to the Resilience Room.

"It's very difficult to be calm in a room with a bloody big notice that says "emergency"!"

In a remark that will amuse if not surprise, political observers, Mr Salmond admitted he was "not short of confidence".

The last time he had apologised was when he had to tell his wife Moira that he may have to ask her to "unbook" their summer holiday.

But he added: "When you're First Minister, you probably don't find it wise to own up to mistake after mistake."

While Mr Salmond has had more contact with Gordon Brown than with his predecessor Tony Blair, the pair had irreconcialable differences.

"You wouldn't expect us to be bosom buddies, walking arm in arm to the pub for a wee snifter...

"I believe in independence for Scotland, clearly the Prime Minister doesn't. No amount of rapprochement will bring us together on that issue. And that applies to a range of other issues too."

Apart from pursuing policies that would make Scotland more competitive, the Scottish Government will be "attacking" the binge drinking culture "which is an even bigger problem than it is in England", he said.

"This is difficult because we are tilting against vested interests, the power of which you would not believe."

Mr Salmond was also unapologetic about the treatment of Wendy Alexander, the former leader of the Labour group in the Scottish Parliament.

"Nobody has accused me of wanting to get rid of her. I have said nothing about her troubles. This idea that I was chasing and harrying her...I must be the most restrained politician of all time."



The full article contains 706 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 August 2008 10:07 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

danbob,

21/08/2008 10:27:06
Come on Alex you must know that Thatcher politics and a so called social concience are totaly at odds with each other. This just smacks of sitting on the fence so you don,t upset voters. Myself I would have much more confidence in him if he did adopt a more Conservative approach. Browns spend, spend, spend approach has disaster written all over it.
2

danielrober,

21/08/2008 10:31:08
# Mr Salmond also accused David Cameron's Conservative ADVERTISEMENT's of being anti-Scottish,"

Typical anti-scottish retoric, by Alec.S. AS if every Scot that marries and English woman is against Scotland. Stop trying to attack David Cameron's Dad. Pathetic.
3

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:33:30
I don't see how it is possible to separate entirely the economic from the social. Economies are inherently entwined with taxation/expenditure and social policies are inherently entwined with govt.expenditure.
4

Soutar's pocket,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:33:41
I wonder if his father approved of his wife, Moira, probably as they are of a similar age!
5

Alastair the First,

21/08/2008 10:36:17
Frankly the headline to this article is extremely misleading. The main thrust of what Alex Salmond said (as quoted in full in the article) is that Scots didn't like the social impacts of Thatcher - the Scotsman has seized on the subordinate phrase and projected it as the main point, which it clearly is not.
6

Joe,

Livingston 21/08/2008 10:46:33
Alex shoots himself in the foot and confirms his right wing leanings..
7

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 21/08/2008 10:51:16
It's not the "owning up to mistake after mistake" that we want from you First Minister, it's your showing us "success after success"! We can all see your mistakes quite easily! That is, all but those more rabid SNP supporters who suffer from 'three monkeys syndrome'! No doubt they will flock to own up to 'success after success', after this comment!
8

,

21/08/2008 11:13:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Calum10,

21/08/2008 11:26:33
Mafe up story by the Hootsmon.
10

AJ Fife,

21/08/2008 11:31:35
#9,

Very well put and most of Scotland will agree with you!

A similar end for Blair will be in order too!
11

Alan B,

21/08/2008 11:32:53
#Ugly George

To an extent I agree with you. Although you could argue that something like the poll tax was a social policy not an economic policy. You could add resistence to scottish parliament despite support in scotland for it. Even the 79 referendum on a scottish assembly was only blocked due to undemocratic means.

For me with Thatcher there were a few things:
1)to a large extent she was an english nationalist and as such scotland came a distant second in her priorities and that has a diffect effect on the implication of policy.
2)much of the implication of policy was poor although the actually ideological underpinning was correct.
3)she was unfairly blamed for in many way being the messenger of the dreadful state of the uk economy she inheritied from labour. ie 25% inflation, a failed incomes policy, winter of discontent, barmy unionisation of the work force, overmanned industry, uncompetitive industry. Having to go the imf for emergency bannana republic type loans when labour had effectively bankrupted the uk economy.
4)her anti european views was not good for britain
5)to a large extent we in scotland were takin in by labour lies. ie i was very surprised to learn that the only party ever to cut nhs spending in real terms was labour in the 70s (a condition of the imf bailing out the uk with emergency loans). The way labour went on the 80s i genuinely and niavely believe that the tories were actually cutting health spending. And the whole thing was a pack of lies.
12

Alan B,

21/08/2008 11:40:42
#AJ Fife

To an extent do you not think that while the thatcher period was very difficult that was largely down to the truely dreadful situation she inherited.

Since the end of ww2 the uk economy had been steadily getting less and less competitive, until it hit rock botton in the 70s with 25% inflation, imf loans, and was known as the sick man of europe (in economic terms).

Thatcher for all her failings was the first prime minister in 40yrs to address these problems. Part of the reason the uk is one of the richest economies in the world again is due to that transformation.

As such do you not think thatcher is mainly blamed for having to deal with the extreme mess that she inherited and we in many way are just shooting the messenger in blaming her. ie labour in 70s and the tories before her like heath are far more culpible.
13

JohnMcDonald,

London 21/08/2008 11:44:16
Come on Scotsman! You are letting the side down. That headline could have been a tad better - perhaps "Wee Eck in Thatcher love fest!"

As I pass you a tissue to wipe away the drooling saliva can I remind you that everyone else is reaching for the sick bucket.

Alex Salmond and the SNP Government need to have the print media call them to account but this more than year-long nonsense only serves to discredit journalism and drive your paper closer to bankruptcy. Give Scotland and your remaining readers a break and give this obsessive - demented almost - need to rubbish the SNP a rest.

14

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 11:58:15
13 Alan B
One or two points :
If I recall accurately the 1979 referendum was held at the time of Jim Calaghan's Labour govt.

I agree with your third point. It has become tiresome to hear the old mantra "Thatcher destroyed Scottish/British" industry. Much of British industry was in terminal decline when she took over.

I think we have agreed in the past that it is extremely difficult to have a rational debate on her virtues/faults as the very mention of the name seem to conjure up so much bitterness and bile. But it is also now clear that no political party (Labour, Libdems and now SNP) advocates a reverse of her economic industry/trade union policies. (sorry I forgot aboout the SSp and Arther Scargill's crew) that must tell us something.

15

Neil,

Glasgow 21/08/2008 11:58:42
Intersting & it shows the split personality of the SNP runs right through the head of its leader.

On the one hand he is economist enough to know that the free market policies that made Ireland grow at 7% & under Thatcher made us grow at 2.5% are what is needed to make Scotland successful. I accept he genuinely wants Scotland to be a successful country.

On the other hand when it comes to doing things he can't shake the SNP's commitment to spend ever more on proppingup our dependency culture & attacking Labour for not wasting enough.

Alex you can't keep promising a "Celtic Lion" economy to match Ireland's forever without doing something about it.
16

Alan B,

21/08/2008 11:59:24
#13
sorry typo was meant to be

"much of the implementation of policy" not "much of the implication of policy"
17

inkster,

21/08/2008 11:59:25
I hate Thatcher too and I wish he hadn't said that but it does stop the SNP gainsayers claiming that the SNP are polically one dimensional and unrepresentative of the broad political spectrum.

It demonstrates is that the SNP are not reactionary snobs like the Tories, inept fuzzy scared dopey jobsworth Liberals or political drunks like Labour.

18

,

21/08/2008 12:01:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

"Hoots" Fandango,

21/08/2008 12:03:24
4 Soutar's pocket,

"I wonder if his father approved of his wife, Moira, probably as they are of a similar age!"

Hey! Great debate man! I'm impressed! More unionist cleverness.

ps - Who is Soutar? If it's the bus guy you mean, it's "Souter."
20

Alan B,

21/08/2008 12:03:46
#Ugly George

The referendum was set up by labour. Think it was while thatcher in power. She had just taken over by the time the referendum was run, if i remember correctly (was a wee boy). It was in Novermmber she had taken over in the spring previously.

However my point was not so much about that referendum but the failure of Thatcher to create a scottish parliament despite an apparent appetite within the population for one.

ie I think you could see that as social policy that was being referred to.
21

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 12:05:13
I remember telling you all that Salmond's daddy hated the English and refused to set foot in the British parliament. Can all you SNP fanatics remember sneering that I was making that up?

Have you read "I'm ok, your ok"? It is a fasinating books on the adult, child, parent parts of the brain and how some people when daddy tells them Police are bad, Blacks are wrong etc fail to engage their own thoughts properly and just live their adult lives with daddy's programing.

Thatcher, eh? Tartan tories? Can you SNP remember sneering at one and all for this comment.

I am laughing at all you SNP fanatics, you have been taken for mugs. Fortunately, your seperatist agenda will be voted down by those whose daddies didn't raise us to hate democractic institutions and the English.
22

"Hoots" Fandango,

21/08/2008 12:07:32
23

Yes I remember but it wasn't you - unless you've changed your moniker since then.
23

"Hoots" Fandango,

21/08/2008 12:08:33
btw Soupy, he didn't hate the English - just Westminster. It's a UK thing.
24

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:12:14

lol

"One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

Just over a month ago Salmond happily and frequently made the point linking Scottish Labour/Labour to the spectre of Maggie Thatcher.

And now this.

Yet another 'rug pulled from under the feet of activists' fiasco.

Or is it Salmond thinknig ahead. Wonder what the die-hards think about this latest deviation from policy?

Anyone?

I can think of a good few things to say about Salmond, few complimentary.

Never, ever could I have thought that one day we would see the headline

"Alex (Salmond), Son Of (Maggie) Thatcher"


25

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:12:45
17 Neil
You are correct. At present the SNP is trying to be all things to all people. It is saying that it wants to reduce taxation to stimulate the economy but at the same time expressing its desire to spend huge amounts. Somehow this is all to be funded from North Sea oil even though the production of it is falling.


At some stage hard decisions need to be made. Would they envisage a similar NHS to Ireland - only 30% of the population entitled to free GP appointments. They talk about an oil fund like Norway but would the introduce Norwegian levels of taxation (25% VAT including VAT on food - income tax starting AT 28% etc.)
26

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:15:38
19

"I hate Thatcher too and I wish he hadn't said that but it does stop the SNP gainsayers claiming that the SNP are polically one dimensional and unrepresentative of the broad political spectrum."

Defending the indefensible. One day Thatcher's Satan. Next day she's, well, "we didn't mind the economic side so much".

Oh dear. A new low. Or is Eck on his own on this one?

Hello....Anyone?



27

Alan B,

21/08/2008 12:15:57
#Ugly George

My point 2 about the implementation of policy being poor many referred to monetary policy. While i was abit young to take a view on the early monetary policy of Howe (it was said he over did it, trying to control inflation and hence bankrupted viable business aswell as shaking out the uncompetitive ones). It was also very hard to judge considering the complete mess she inheritied.

My complain was more monetary policy under Lawson which was poor and undermined the underlying economic achievements. They allowed interest rates to drop before the election of 87 creating a temporary boom. The uk economy grew at more than 4% both in 87 and 88. That was completely unsustainable and lead to the inflation at the turn of the decade that leads inevitably to the recessions of the early 90s.

There were 3 other failing in monetary policy.
-thatcher completley undermined lawson bring in her own professor to make recommendations.
-lawson wanted to join the erm she did not.
-lawson tried to trail the DM while outside the erm causing interest rates to be far to low

She should have either sacked him and brought in someone who was truer to the monetarim idealogy and floating uk exchange rate. Or backed him and joined the erm. While i am pro the euro i thought personally the erm was barmy for the uk.

The other main failing over monetary policy was the over reaction to black monday when they lower interest rates in reaction to the biggest fall in global share prices since the great depression. This helped the over the top growth rates of 88 that lead to the inflation.
28

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 12:19:41
Do you think Alex Salmond ate a freedom fry in the reslience room?

When he refers to "vested interests" in bickfast abusing louts. Does he mean he doesn't want to discourage this type of person voting SNP or independence. I'm laughing at that one, you know my opinion of the SNP/Labour core voter.

What does Hoots think of the SNP's love affair of Thatcher?
29

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:21:01
Salmond will get a splinter sitting on the fence for so long.

Pro-public-sector housing yesterday and now pro-Thatcherism (who sold off the council housing under RTB) today.

Make up yer damn mind, Eck!
30

Alan B,

21/08/2008 12:21:46
#Neil

"On the one hand he is economist enough to know that the free market policies that made Ireland grow at 7% & under Thatcher made us grow at 2.5% are what is needed to make Scotland successful"

Not sure what you mean by "made us grow at 2.5%"

Scotland over the last decade had grown at 2.2% on avg. The uk 2.8%. Scotland over the last 30yrs has a growth rate less that 2% (on avg).

The uk economy for the period of thatchers rule was under 2%. They tended to use 81 as baseline rather than 79 was it pushed up the yrly growth rate percentage. (because of the deep world recession at the turn of that decade)
31

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 12:22:55
You should have heard the SNP cult member-come-fanatics on the social housing debate yesterday.

Right-to-buy-this, Thatcher-that, that was all bad. And today we don't mind this economic side to Thatcher.

I'm confused? Which is it, or does your average SNP disciple just look at the pretty pictures of politicians eating sausages?
32

John S,

21/08/2008 12:23:52
Margaret Thatcher and the community charge - It is less in Scotland. It is less in Wales, because we English who are marvellous people are really very generous to Scotland and very generous to Wales.Someone has to speak up for we English, we're the most underestimated people in the United Kingdom. 1990 Feb 10
Margaret Thatcher she blasted the venerable dream of devolution - the establishment of a semi-autonomous legislature to run home affairs in Scotland - as a threat to the union of the United Kingdom.September 5, 1987
Margaret Thatcher wanted to prevent the creation of a Scottish assembly by amending Labour legislation to allow the English to vote in the 1979 referendum on devolution. Scotsman 28 April 2008
Margaret Thatcher ordered her ministers to seek cuts of up to a seventh of the Scottish Office budget as the nation's economy was in acute difficulties, according to official government documents.Herald- June 06 2008

33

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 12:25:03
Speaking of the resilience room.

You know how empire biscuits were once "German" biscuits. What does an SNP ask for in the bakery?

Free by '93 biscuit?
34

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 12:30:05
ECHO! ... Echo ... echo ... ...

I used to love shouting that into dark caves when no-one was about, and hearing it bounce around.

Where is everyone? Was it something AS said?
35

Alan B,

21/08/2008 12:31:08
#27 Ugly George

I think the genuine problem for the snp over the economic issue is they are a coalition of all views on the economic spectrum. The probably sit more on the social democratic side but will also have people that believe in a lower tax model.

I personally would support a lower tax model, but would support them as a party due to the fact i see independence as better for scotland.

While it is a relevent issue with them, although masked somewhat by the limited power of the scottish parliament over taxation.

My understanding of ireland is they are not completely low tax. ie they have low business taxes while higher vat than the uk.

But labour has been all over the place itself as it morphed from a party that believe in socialism (public ownership of industry), from an anti eu party, anti nuclear (both civil and defence). Reversing all off those. It is now a capitalist party with believe in more taxation. (it has even dropped its support favouring direct taxes to more regressive indirect taxes).

The tories on the other hand seem scared to cut taxes.
36

Professor22,

lochgelly 21/08/2008 12:31:17
I objected to Thatcher, in all forms, but then again I must not be Scottish, even though I was born and lived here for 40 years (which beats the Nats Shawwwwwn Coooooneelly)

News to me!
37

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:45:57
36

They've been recalled to base - something about getting "on message".

AS luvs MT

lol
38

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:49:06
33

Soooo true.

SNP = Hypocrisy.

Let's see them spin their merry way out of this one. It's going to be interesting, if they come back, that is!!
39

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 21/08/2008 12:55:42
Has anyone ever thought to wonder what Lady Thatcher thinks of what she did back then? Milk snatching and getting ice cream to hold more free (to the company but not to you or me) air and all. Would she really defend her idea of charging people for air now? Would she defend laying off millions without a single thought as to what it would do to the family and the individual and their community? Did she really think a bunch of toffee nosed twits in her party knew how to run an economy? etc etc etc I would like to see Lady Thatcher on TV saying what she thinks looking back now, maybe too little too late but as someone once said "It isn't over until the fat lady sings" and I don't see any fat ladies on the horizon.
40

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:59:23
37 Alan B
Please do not assume that I am defending the Labour part.
On the subject of Ireland its public expenditure as a percentage of GDP is very low(approx. 35%) even though it is spending large amounts to modernise its infrastructure which was neglected during the previous decades of economic underperformance. Its expenditure on the big items - health, social security and education is low compared to Scottish levels.
41

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 13:02:10
41

Great idea.

Let's get Thatcher and Salmond on the same progrmamme to reminisce about the good old days....

Wonder what Als' right-hand man in Westminster, Big Angus Robertson, has got to say about things?

Choking on his single malt, no doubt.


42

John S,

21/08/2008 13:05:47
Gordon Brown named as Thatcher's natural heir by Lord Tebbit who said that it was only natural that Mr Brown should make himself the “heir to Thatcher”.
The Times - Sept 26, 2007
Gordon and Margaret at 10 Downing Street.http://tinyurl.com/3odecx
43

subrosa,

21/08/2008 13:06:27
# 4
'Soutar's pocket, Edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:33:41
I wonder if his father approved of his wife, Moira, probably as they are of a similar age!'

Excellent debating skills. I commend you - for the fool you are.
44

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:19:43
#Ugly George

"On the subject of Ireland its public expenditure as a percentage of GDP is very low(approx. 35%)"

Is that not more inline with uk spending under thatcher (was under 40% of gdp) without the 4% gdp spending on defence we had in these days.

My perception of ireland is they do underspend on health. Drugs available in uk are not available over their. But it has a good education system. Least that is what i have been told.

45

Number 6,

Germany 21/08/2008 13:24:34
yes yes, thatcher the demon. Any of you remember the state of the country before thatcher came to power ?.

It was hell on earth under Labour, no other way to describe it. It took drastic actions to save us from going under completley. Oh so conveinently forgotton
in Scotland.
If Scots had not displayed a pathalogical hatred of the tories, like some kind of badge of honour, then maybe she would have unleashed her poll tax experiment some where else. As it was, she showed her political astuteness by foisting it on us, because she knew that would cost her nothing in terms of votes.

To say she was evil etc etc is frankly pathetic, especially as we jumped straight back into bed with the liebour party. The same party that brought the country to it's knees.
46

Andra, Dundee,

21/08/2008 13:27:30
So Salmond at long last admits that Thatchers economic policies were good. About time too. Scotland and the UK are economic success stories now. Had Thatcher not done what she did we would have been a third world disaster by now.
SNP and Labour lived in a fantasy world in the 1980s. They thought money grew on trees. Not much change there then!
47

Nell,

Far from the Struan 21/08/2008 13:31:22
Thastcher and her cronies decided that manufacturing things in the UK was not economically viable and set about closing coal mines, steel works, car plants, ship building etc. etc. Obviously the closure of such things had a massive impact on Scotland. She (in conjunction with the owners ) could have modernised those industries, like the Japanese who realise to stay competitive you have to invest and not just bleed dry. Unfortunately she didnt have any alternative sources of employment.
I'm with number 9 Banana Heid. She will always be despised by me. Alex Salmond should be careful about affiliating himself with someone so hated in Scotland.
48

Destroy the Planet,

21/08/2008 13:33:33
Circulation 43000 and falling
49

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 13:41:59
47

Clearly a convert.

Wonder how long it'll take these same Separatists and their august Leader to back the idea of a state funeral for Maggie?

Who said Scottish politics was boring?

LOL



50

Brian S,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:45:50
Aye at least he didn't invite the old crow round for tea and crumpets

It's a shame the Scotsman didn't make such an issue about it when Comrade Broon was kissing her backside.
51

Ugly George,

edinburgh 21/08/2008 14:01:16
49 Nell
I am afraid that your version of events is inaccurate. Thatcher did not "decide that manufacturing things in the UK was not economically viable" and it was not she who closed down the "steel works, car plants" etc. If you look at the reality, once the trade union reform legislation was in place, Japanese car companies like Nissan and Toyota actually started building car plants in the UK.

What Thatcher did was refuse to pour even more billions into industries/companies that were failing and were terminal cases. This had been tried during the previous labour govt and the policy was a failure. In the seventies shipbuilding, steel and Brish Leyland were all nationalised and all flopped at the combined cost of billions. At one stage British Steel was losing over £1million per day (in seventies prices). British Leyland turned out rubbish cars like the Austin Allegro which nobody wanted to buy.
52

Doh,

21/08/2008 14:02:34


Looks like all those business donations are paying off.

Thatcher wouldnt have a state funeral.
She would want it to be privatised.

53

Number 6,

Germany 21/08/2008 14:02:39
#49 As I have pointed out, if we had acted a bit more civillised towards her, and not just spewed out hatred ,
then maybe she would have looked on Scotland more sympathetically.

State run industries were inefficient and huge loss makers to the tax payers.

The products were of third world standards due to the assumption that people had a job for life, no matter how badly they did it.

I will never forget the pictures in the papers of leering British leyland workers, arriving for the night shift, with their sleeping bags, while the unions did nothing but threaten to strike if any action was taken.

No, as unpalitable as it may seem, Thatcher saved Britain. Leaving it in the hands of labour would have been catastrophic for the country.

Do any of the thatcher haters honestly think it would have been better to leave the country in the ruinous hands of Labour in the 70's?
ps, only those who lived through it are qualified to give an opinion on thatcher. Students etc , step back from the keyboard.
54

Doh,

21/08/2008 14:08:05


Let me see Thatcher privatised the buses.
The bus magnate gives a donation to the SNP.
The SNP dont mind Thatcher's economic policies.

He who pays the piper calls the tune?


55

Number 6,

Germany 21/08/2008 14:13:07
#56. And what was that supposed to mean ?
56

Doh,

21/08/2008 14:28:25

#57

Simple enough accusation, is this just part of the evidence that Salmonds lurch to the right since his days in the 79 group is complete.

Coincides with the SNP sucking business donations.

Its time for parties to be funded by the voters
not millionaires.
57

Doh,

21/08/2008 14:34:04
Just in case anyone doesnt remember what a left wing firebrand the Dear Leader was, here is the extract from wikipedia about the 79 group.

Personally I dont remember Alex praising Thatchers economic policies at the time. Maybe he was wrong then and right now. Right and getter righter?

Wikipedia -





The 79 Group was a left wing organisation committed to the idea that the SNP should be in favour of an independent Scotland being a socialist republic. The group was bolstered when many Scottish Labour Party (SLP) members decided to join the SNP after the collapse of the SLP. This made the SNP-left even stronger and they started to exert their influence in the party.

The SNP leadership under Gordon Wilson however took a hostile view of internal factions and in the early 1980s they proscribed the 79 Group, along with another internal SNP faction Siol nan Gaidheal. The 79 Group however reformed itself as a cross-party organisation called the Scottish Socialist Society in an attempt to carry on the work it had began. But the SNP leadership took the view that the 79 Group was continuing. This resulted in the expulsion from the party of the previous Group leaders (including Alex Salmond who would later become the SNP leader).
58

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 14:59:12
56,57

What, like the SNP transport brief being altered to suit a certain company, or the outcome in Aviemore and a certain golf resort in the North East?

Interesting thoughts.
59

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 14:59:51
Hello? Come in plebs... over ... do you read me.

Do you remember when I informed you that Alex Salmond's father hated the English so much that he refused to go and see his son give speeches as part of the British parliamentary democracy in the UK's capital city?

Do you remember that you sneered at me for making that up? Do you? Are you to small-minded to apologise?

That is also the same mentality that polutes communities in our society. Daddy tells them that people the other side of the estate, the other side of the city, the other side of the coast, the other side of the border. Daddy tells them when they are young how much they shoudl be hated, detested loathed, so disguting are these people "at the otherside of..." that you shouldn't even share a pint with them, shake their hands or hear them speak.

This is what caused inbred generational violence in Glasgow, football hooliganism in Aberdeen, Religious hatred in Dundee and the whole of the SNP party.

When daddies teach their kids to hate. That is dangerous.
60

Number 6,

Germany 21/08/2008 15:00:00
#59 I must confess , I did not know that. he is of course a different animal today. One of the reasons many of us could not bring ourselves to vote SNP for so long, was this image of the "Peasants Party" they had. "Big Margo" didn't help.

Thank god he has "Lurched" to the right. Clearly, he has learned from his previous mistakes.
61

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 15:07:19
52

Or that Separatists did have a m-a-s-s-i-v-e issue with Brown meeting with Thatcher but now, mysteriously, don't?

I wonder

1. what Alex Neils's angle on these events. He must be spitting blood.

2. if Gordon Brewer has mischievously invited him onto Newsnight Scotland to discuss.

Talking about tea and crumpets, when's the SNP conference? I predict a bun fight. ALL invited.

62

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 15:10:41
61

There is no religious hatred in Dundee.

The SNP have a very active group on the go there, but tres dormant when it comes to sticking up for the city if that involves facing up to their masters in Perthshire and, especially, Angus.


63

Lianachan,

Highlands 21/08/2008 15:11:49
What numpty got my joke at #20 removed by a mod?! Beggars belief, it really does.
64

The Master,

21/08/2008 15:17:24
#47 Number 6: " If Scots had not displayed a pathological hatred of the tories, like some kind of badge of honour, then maybe she would have unleashed her poll tax experiment some where else. As it was, she showed her political astuteness by foisting it on us, because she knew that would cost her nothing in terms of votes."

Either that or there was about to be a revaluation of the rates in Scotland so, in the face of a revolt against massively increased bills, it was misguidedly felt that the poll tax was the answer. She was actually trying to garner votes, believe it or nor. She was seeking to appease groups such as RAGE (the Rates Action Group Executive).

The trouble with Nats like you is that you start from the premise that Scotland is oppressed and that the "union" is dead in the water etc (we all know the patter) and then blindly seize on anything which could possibly justify this.

Btw, I'm fascinated to hear that Salmond's father refused to visit Westminster to hear him speak: I always wondered what was at the root of his nationalism and knew it had to be something like that (deep psychological waters here, as with most Nats).
65

Lianachan,

Highlands 21/08/2008 15:26:44
#61, among others.

Why do so many unionists associate the wish for an independent Scotland with a hatred of England? It's a ridiculous thing to automatically assume. I very much doubt I'm the only person who wants an independent Scotland, but has no chip on their shoulder and harbours no hatred for our southern neighbours or their country.
66

Stuntman Mike,

21/08/2008 15:26:57
#58 Doh: the trouble with state funding of political parties is that many object to the state having to prop up any undesirable grouping with a sizeable support.

I myself would find state funding of the SNP very hard to stomach, not that I'm implying that there is anything undesirable per se about the party.
67

Stuntman Mike,

21/08/2008 15:28:29
#67: there are a few like you, I admit.
68

John PM,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 15:28:45
Can the unionists please adopt a new song? Just to cause some actual interesting discussion?

"The SNP are racists [insert meaningless logic]" ie because Salmond's Dad didn't like his son being at Westminster.

Sorry but it's sad and pathetic. All this indicates is that Salmond's family are Scottish nationalists like him. What a shock eh!

There is a nationalist argument in favour of Scottish representation at UK level and one against which is that you shouldn't have any truck with Britain at all.

Either position is honourable. Personally I want Scotland to have no representation in Westminster ie independence but I would rather send an SNP MP than a unuionist down there for the moment until that happens. That's also Alex Salmond's position and most members of the SNP. However having distaste for Westminster (since we are outvoted 11-1) is entirely understandable.

Some Irish MP's have taken this idea to its logical conclusion but only because their country has already declared independence!

If smearing Scots who want normal powers for Scotland is unionism's only argument then it deserves nothing but contempt. Want to know why your parties are crumbling? Stop telling blatant lies.
69

Doh,

21/08/2008 15:34:26
#68 stuntman

That is why funding should be linked to votes.
Say £1 per vote gained.

If you dont like a party then dont vote for it then they wont get your £1.


Also remember there is already some state funding of parties - politicians, their staff and even communication allowances. The trouble with all that is that it is skewed in favour of the sitting member.

Elections need to be paid for - and if someone thinks their vote isnt worth £1 - then they are a prety sad case.

70

Stuntman Mike,

21/08/2008 15:38:31
#71: but how would the system work for nationalist parties that do not stand throughout the UK? I can just hear their howls of protest now although, as you can imagine, I have zero sympathy towards them.
71

Number 6,

Germany 21/08/2008 15:40:59
66 The Master. The trouble with unionistas like you is that you refuse to see that the union delivers nothing to Scotland. You are prepared to defend it at all costs , and subsequently you come across as bitter and fustrated. Powerless to stop the SNP momentum, you are reduced to sniping from the sidelines.

The "union" IS dead in the water. Maybe not tomorrow,
but certainly sooner than you dread.

Why are you "fascinated" to hear that Salmond's father refused to attend Westminster to hear his son.

Is this another twig your going to try and beat the First Minister with ?
72

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 15:46:21
73

hee hee

SNP momentum? On what basis - the activists here? (many of whom appear to have gone to ground, BTW, for some reason).

Next we'll be reading reports on something really wacky, like Hootsman Exclusive, "Salmond Endorses Thatcher Legacy".

Oh wait, that one's taken.


73

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/08/2008 15:47:41
Gerri Peev said:

"ALEX Salmond has said Scotland "didn't mind the economic side" to Margaret Thatcher, but disapproved of the "social" implications of her policies."

What she reports him as actually saying:

"One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

Naughty girl Gerri, that was a manipulation of the truth for the sake of a catchy headline.
74

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 15:48:27
67

Chillax out my lil' buddy. I don't *all* SNP member have hateful fathers that despise the English and rear offspring who are hard programmed as nippers to feel the same irrational hatred.

I just think *many* SNP voters are like this.

I would concede there are also many spotty teenagers who wear the imaginary chip on the shoulder as a badge of honour also.

Also, there are the greedy unemployed scroungers who have lived their live on benefits who want the oil money, so that as the 3 generations before them did, the 3 generations after can live on post-WW2 handouts from the system.

The SNP are a diverse bunch and while you can't always avoid their company, you would never invite one for dinner.
75

Doh,

21/08/2008 15:55:07
#72

The SNAPS would get the $1 reimbursed (that sounds better than state funding) for each vote gained.

If they fight less seats (only those in Scotland) then they will have less election expenses.

It makes sense to me.

Anyway is does look that as the SNP have become more business friendly they have attracted more business donations.

I suspect AS made some unguarded remarks to the tpry journalist, trying to ingratiate himself, but has nevertheless giving another indication of his maturing economic world view.

Thatchers policies were a disater for the economy.
Salmond can come round to that point of view when he writes his memoirs in say 10 years time.
76

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 15:59:06
Salmond will come to regret his comments on Thatcher, no mistake.
77

LEAL,

21/08/2008 16:00:25
Another piece of shoddy journalism by The Scotsman.Opinion polls show 40% of Scots are in favour of independence,40% in favour of the union and 20% undecided.The 20% undecided will only be persuaded to get out and vote to save the union if someone,anyone,can give them a good reason for staying in the union.Here is one
" Our fellow Brits in the home counties depend on Scottish oil revenues to keep them in luxury.It would be selfish of us to keep that revenue to ourselves".
78

The Master,

21/08/2008 16:01:49
#73: Number 6: "Why are you "fascinated" to hear that Salmond's father refused to attend Westminster to hear his son.

Is this another twig your going to try and beat the First Minister with ?"

Let's just say that Salmond's an intelligent man and an able politician, so I've always wondered why such a person would support Scottish separation, which is a "Mickey Mouse" policy to say the least (unless your blinded by misguided nationalism).

Just ask yourself why the policy is vehemently rejected by every other mainstream populist party in Scotland if you're inclined to doubt me.
79

Lianachan,

Highlands 21/08/2008 16:03:45
#76 The irony of your posting like that is quite remarkable.
80

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:04:43
#Doh

Why do parties need so much money in the first place?

All the fliers and posters are meaningless. As are the billboards.

Have state funded political researchers but why fund all the rubbush we get at election times.

The media both print and tv through politcal programming should be enough. Along with campaigning.
81

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 16:10:07
78 SnB

Make no mistake he will live to regret chatting up Ms T.

Most SNP voters/bloggers/campaigners learned their political history from second rate comedians and chatting down the pub.

They sound like Ben Elton - all of them. "And anuvva thing right, that fatcha, 'art of stone."

LOL. This is too much fun watching the SNP implode day in day out. They have dropped all of their top mamnifesto commitments, found money for stationary and Islam parties, had photoshoots with sausages and now they are bigging up the Iron Lady's economic prowess to the Scots.

LOL. You couldn't write such amusing political obituaries if you tried.

Oh yeah, did we mention the SNP member and politician who took his children in a blacked-out van to a terror training camp to fire AK-47s as a "family holiday."

LOL. Hehehehehe.
82

Shredder,

21/08/2008 16:12:38
#76 Soup Kitchen: " The SNP are a diverse bunch and while you can't always avoid their company, you would never invite one for dinner."

The SNP supporters I know quietly say that they think independence is the best way forward for Scotland but don't assert this as dogmatic truth and are big enough to admit that they might be wrong about this, unlike the vast majority of Nats on the Scotsman boards.
83

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 16:13:26
51% of Scots work in the public sector. Many, many more are scroungers on benefits.

This is why Labour/SNP can stay in power for ever in Scotland. Uneducated dolts, who vote themselves free money out the pockets of other year in year out.

If Alex Salmond dares mess them he's finished in Scotland. This is what happens when you have half the country as benefit scrounging lay-abouts or public sector "workers".
84

Doh,

21/08/2008 16:16:52
#82 Alan

The press and TV are liable to be biased.
In a free society candidates need to be able to express their own message unmediated.

I dont know where you live, but trust me, ask MissH, where a candidate spends more money they will tend to do better. It is similar to advertising.

May the richest man win.
85

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 21/08/2008 16:20:04
Amazing, the unionistas are frothing.
If you want to see the real motivation of the writer of the blog, Ian Dale, read his comments on the Salmond interview.

From his own site, in his own words...

"UPDATE: The Scotsman also has a long piece about an interview I have done with Alex Salmond. Thankfully Salmond doesn't get his t!ts out in the interview."

Gerry Peev, the writer of the Scotsman article, is picking and choosing selective parts of quotes, without context, in another futile attempt to discredit Salmond and the SNP.

Why not reprint the entire article, Gerry, or at least one complete sentence or paragraph? Are you afraid that the truth will expose your blatant pro-Labour propaganda? Total B)LL)CKS.

I had to change a letter in the Ian Dale quote, as the Scotsman filter doesnt allow it. It allows blatant lies but not certain words.
86

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 16:28:22
87 Doonham

Frothing? If you mean by that laughing.

Alex Salmond knows that people hate scrounging torags, never ending upward pressure on wages for the public sector only. Early retirement, higher taxes, no services for money.

So Alex Salmond tries to