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Chancellor under attack as Tories turn spotlight on '20 per cent VAT'

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Published Date: 27 November 2008
ALISTAIR Darling yesterday faced accusations the government had considered raising VAT to 20 per cent to plug a "black hole" in the economy which the Tories claim will be deepened by his £20 billion emergency Budget.
The Chancellor came under attack after Treasury documents were unearthed showing ministers had a plan to raise VAT to 18.5 per cent in 2011, rather than hold it at the present rate of 17.5 per cent.

A 13-month cut in VAT, taking it to 15 per cent, starts on Monday as part of the £20 billion "fiscal stimulus" to soften the effects of the recession by boosting high street spending.

Mr Darling, who yesterday faced an emergency Commons debate on the contents of Monday's Pre-Budget Report, admitted that he and Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, had considered a large number of options in relation to just about every aspect of tax and spending".

But an increase in VAT had been rejected in preference to a 0.5 per cent rise in National Insurance rates as this was the "best and fairest way" to boost the Treasury's depleted coffers, he said.

George Osborne, the Tory shadow chancellor, warned that Labour was turning the UK into a "complete basket case of an economy" with debt set to double to £1 trillion. He said the government's "scorched earth policy" was leading the country to ruin.

Former Tory Chancellor Kenneth Clarke was even bleaker, warning MPs: "We are probably facing the longest and deepest recession in this country in my lifetime."

During the debate, Mr Darling was embarrassed when he was told that Northern Rock – which was nationalised a year ago – had raised the cost of new mortgages – appearing to make a mockery of state control. The Chancellor said the bank was reducing the number of people it was lending to "to survive in the long term".

The move came as Tesco, John Lewis and Sainsbury's announced that they would reduce prices from tomorrow rather than waiting until Monday to implement the VAT cut.

Asda announced pre-Christmas reductions on thousands of products, including 17.5 per cent off TVs and DVDs.

Meanwhile, the European Commission proposed a £170 billion rescue plan, similar to the Chancellor's, which would inject extra spending across the European Union, assuming the 27 member states agreed.

Earlier, at Prime Minister's Questions, David Cameron and Mr Brown clashed angrily, with the Tory leader warning of a "VAT bombshell". Mr Cameron threatened to use the Freedom of Information Act to discover if there had been plans to raise VAT above 18.5 per cent by 2010.

Mr Brown replied that previous Tory VAT rises during recessions, from 8 to 15 per cent in the 1980s, and 15 to 17.5 per cent in the 1990s, had "hurt" families.

The Prime Minister said Mr Cameron was "no longer credible" by denying that money needed to be pumped into the economy. Mr Cameron's preference is for further cuts in bank interest rates and freezes in council tax.

Peter Mandelson, the Business Secretary, last night denied that the new 45 per cent income tax band for people earning more than £150,000 and redistribution of wealth to those on lower incomes from those earning above £40,000 marked the "end of New Labour".

In a speech to the Institute of Directors, he said: "New Labour is about more than just the top tax rate. It is, above all, about maintaining stability in our economy to give business the confidence and predictability to invest."

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1

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/11/2008 22:45:59
All the NatZ have been on saying that the drop to 15% is insignificant and will not make any difference.

It follows that if it was raised to 18.5% then this rise would be even more insignificant.

2

Forward not Back,

27/11/2008 00:20:17
#1 - the reduction is insignificant because retailers are desperately reducing prices to try and make sales. Another 2.5% off won't make any difference to this price deflation when 20%-50% reductions are the norm at present.

However, to pay for the giveaway the point is that prices will be a lot higher in the future.
3

Wardog™,

27/11/2008 00:33:46


Does anyone else hear that unravelling sound

I think dougie alexander will be putting away his early election hobby horse.

4

Scunnert,

27/11/2008 00:38:56
Alistair Darling's incompetence is only eclipsed by Broon's. Eejits - baith.
5

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27/11/2008 00:50:17
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 00:56:27
#1
Are you one of the last remaining liebour party activist in Scotland ?

If you are then south side Jimmy is right .

7

Dark Lochnagar,

Under a bridge in Ayr 27/11/2008 00:59:02
Aye, Rufus ye'll be telling us next that pik n' mix and Kitchens are GLOBAL PROBLEMS. 35,000 jobs down the swanee at a stroke. Hurrah for Broon and the union. Tw@t.
8

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27/11/2008 01:10:22
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 01:20:52
#3 Wardohg

Aye he'll be putting it away in the same wee cubby hole that crash Gordon parked his impotent favourite wee creation the FSA .


Wee duggie and the FSA share one thing in common with their creator gordo broon, incompetence ,but hey liebour reward incompetence in spades 500 billion spades to be more precise . I can only imagine that the banking world will be queuing up to return the favour to Her Broon the minute the English kick his global governance ideology into touch .
10

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27/11/2008 01:37:52
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Jim Baxter RIP,

Sai Kung (sunny, warm Hong Kong) 27/11/2008 01:38:22
I only hope that you lot in the UK are saving up because a rainy day is sure coming for you. You are about to undergo the hardest ten years in your lifetimes. Things cannot improve with the warmongers of labour or the Tory toffs in charge.Better still why dont you bail out.
12

Steve A.,

27/11/2008 01:40:50
All liebour's political opponents should now expose brown and his New World Order rhetoric for what it really is. How long will it be before this PM is advocating a single world currency ?

More importantly who is he trying to impress with this rhetoric ? Is his skin being saved by his global elitist friends on condition that he moves the new world order agenda to the fore ?

The globalists have all the money they need ..it's power that they are after and gordo broon is prepared to do anything to help them take it away from the people .

How any working or middle class men or women could vote for this sociopath of a PM is beyond me .

It's time for all opposition to take the gloves off and remind the public that the last guy in recent history to advocate a New World Order was one Adolf Hitler !
13

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27/11/2008 01:45:48
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Rufus T. Fireball,

UK 27/11/2008 02:00:39
WELL THE DROP IN VAT HAS CERTAINLY STARTED VERY WELL WITH WOOLWORTHS AND MFI GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

NEW LABOUR OLD LIES

OLD LABOUR NEW LIES

TAKE YOUR CHOICE

TERRORISTS LOKING FOR BRITISH IN MUMBAI

THANKS TONY AND GORDON FOR MAKING US ALL TARGETS NOW MY 12 YEAR OLD SON ALSO THANKS YOU FOR THIS HIS SCHOOL TRIP HAS NOW BEEN CANCELLED AND HE WILL PROBABLY BE PAYING FOR BROWNS FISCAL INCOMPETENCE FOR YEARS.

WHAT A SHAMBLES BRITAIN UNDER LABOUR IS
15

Steve A.,

27/11/2008 02:01:36
#14
Was broon saying that he had ended BOOM AND BUST mumbo jumbo too ?




You lick spittle onionists need to inject a sense of humour into your rantings .

Just like your new world order freak PM your so boring .

Roll on independence and the day we can start being optimistic about our future.
16

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27/11/2008 02:03:37
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Rufus T. Fireball,

UK 27/11/2008 02:05:59
JIM BAXTER = SPOT ON PAL

UNDER 50 AND IN THE UK GET THE HELL OUT NOW TRY HONG KONG SINGAPORE AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND CANADA JUST GET OUT.

AND WHEN YOU DO REMEMBER AS THE HARD WORKING DECENT FAMILY OREINETED PEOPLE LEAVE THE UK IN THEIR DROVES THEY ARE BEING REPLACED BY NIGERIANS ALBAINIANS, SOMAILIS,PAKISTANIS AND THE UK IS MOVING VERY RAPIDLY TO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

ROADS RAILWAYS SERVICES HOSPITALS ETC WHAT A MESS.

THANKS TO TONY BLAIR AND GORDON BROWN AND OF COURSE THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THEM.

GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT RUN FOR YOUR LIVES WHILE YOU STILL HAVE ONE BRING YOUR CHILDREN UP IN ANOTHER COUNTRY NOT THE UK.
18

Rufus T. Fireball,

UK 27/11/2008 02:11:27
#17 HAVING LIVED IN TOKYO HONG KONG SYDNEY SINGAPORE AND MUNICH I KNOW THE REST OF THE WORLD PAL AND DONT YOU DARE TELL ME ANYTHING YOU CRETIN PEOPLE I DEAL WITH EVERY DAY IN THOSE PLACES ARE GOING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS THEIR COUNTRIES AND CITY STATES HAVE NO DEFICEIT UNLIKE THE UK WHICH IS MIRED IN DEBT.

CREDIT CARD DEBT IN THE UK IS HUGE ENORMOUS HENCE MANDLESONS RECENT RANT THEY KNOW THAT THE DEFAULTS ARE GOING TO BE HUGE AND THE ECONOMY IN THE UK IS DEAD ABSOLUTLEY DEAD THE PUBLIC SECTOR IN THE UK IS BIGGER THAN THE CHINESE ARMY AND SUCKS MONEY IN LIKE A SHREDDING MACHINE BELIEVE ME PAL YOU ARE UP THE CREEK WITHOUT EVEN A BOAT IN THE UK - YOU ABSOLUTE CRETIN OF A MAN UK IN GOOD SHAPE - WHAT A INSIDIOUS COMMENT
19

Steve A.,

27/11/2008 02:16:28
#17
That's it follow the liebour lies as it will lead you to a lovely little place called BANKRUPT BRITAIN !

What is it you need these days to qualify for the liebour party ....a frontal lobotomy ?

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27/11/2008 02:19:04
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27/11/2008 02:20:33
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27/11/2008 02:27:22
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 02:36:12
#24
Wullie do you think the herald is getting brown envelopes from the brown one in order to keep in business and pump out liebour propaganda every two seconds ?


Looks like it to me .
25

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27/11/2008 02:36:36
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Scunnert,

27/11/2008 02:37:32
Secret union deal to save Labour from bankruptcy

Unite halted Labour crisis by guaranteeing its finances in a deal the party is refusing to make public, The Times has learnt


tinyurl.com/35jsju
27

Steve A.,

27/11/2008 02:47:11
#27
Scunnert
What a tangled web liebour weave !
28

Scunnert,

27/11/2008 02:47:44
Labour Party agrees to delay repayment of £9.2m loans
By Ben Russell, Home Affairs Correspondent
Thursday, 27 November 2008

The Labour Party shook off the spectre of financial collapse yesterday by agreeing a two-year "interest rate holiday" with seven millionaire businessmen who extended the terms of their controversial loans.

tinyurl.com/58vr9b
29

Scunnert,

27/11/2008 02:49:32
28 Steve A.

Indeed - secret deals for millions of quid - nothing to see move along - aye right.
30

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27/11/2008 03:03:33
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27/11/2008 03:06:29
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 03:13:23
WULLIE

Just like liebour are boring control freaks .I tried to post there today and because i had the effrontery to criticise crash Gordon and the heralds new comment section they took my comment and posted into the black hole of censorship .

Don't you just love the new world order control freaks ?
33

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27/11/2008 03:25:16
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 27/11/2008 03:40:06
#17 Been There Once (They didnae like me)

"Take a look at the rest of the world. The UK is in better shape than most."

I think my friend you should stop drinking the cool-aid.

According to the OECD the UK will suffer the most of any developed country, in fact you would probably be better off moving to any other country on the planet.

Take a big map of the world, close your eyes and throw a dart at it. Chances are 99% you will have hit a country that will do better than the UK.

The 1% is if your dart hits the UK, in which case you will still be in the jobbies.

35

Steve A.,

27/11/2008 03:50:52
Wullie

From a business stance it's tantamount to suicide to diminish your hits from many hundreds per article to 5 or 6 per article they must be getting paid to do what they have done .

Who's the pay master ? Who likes to shut the little people out ? Who likes to arrest 80yr old party members under the terrorism act ?

Why are the liebour cabal getting complete subservience from the media ?

The palm greasing must be astonishing at this time .

When it ends and it will there's going to be one hell of a mess for our country to deal with .
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27/11/2008 03:55:48
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27/11/2008 03:57:13
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27/11/2008 04:30:13
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27/11/2008 04:36:12
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27/11/2008 04:42:38
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 04:44:35
#40
Would that be the same kind of shame as murdering Iraqi women and children for oil ?
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27/11/2008 04:50:56
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27/11/2008 04:54:33
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 04:58:09
#43
Why would you assume that? If i have to collect a giro it will be thanks to that leech of a PM broon the bankrupt !

Don't make assumptions about me you to$$er !

Speak for yourself .
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27/11/2008 05:00:33
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27/11/2008 05:02:46
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Steve A.,

27/11/2008 05:08:45
#46 =
(_!_)
:o)
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27/11/2008 05:11:19
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27/11/2008 05:31:31
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 27/11/2008 05:57:56
OECD projections for GDP Growth in 2009

USA -0.9%
Japan -0.1%
Germany -0.8%
France -0.4%
Italy -1.0%
UK -1.1%
Canada -0.5%
Australia +1.7%
Austria -0.1%
Belgium -0.1%
Czech Rep. +2.5%
Denmark -0.5%
Finland +0.6%
Greece +1.9%
Hungry -0.5%
Iceland -9.3%
Ireland -1.7%
Korea +2.7%
Luxembourg -0.5%
Mexico +0.4%
Netherlands -0.2%
New Zealand -0.4%
Norway +1.3%
Poland +3.0%
Portugal -0.2%
Slovak Rep. +4.0%
Spain -0.9%
Sweden 0.0%
Switzerland -0.2%
Turkey +1.6%

The 3 Worst places to be, Iceland, Ireland and the UK.

The 3 Best places to be Slovak Rep.,Poland and Korea.

You will notice that the G7 countries are listed by the size of their economy while the smaller countries are listed in alphabetical order.

That means that the OECD is saying that the UK economy is somewhere between Italy and Canada in terms of size.


51

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27/11/2008 06:05:59
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Macuistean,

Isle of Tiree 27/11/2008 06:09:21
35000 jobs for the chop at Woolies and MFI. You ait seen nothin' yet. Boom, Boom.............Bust
53

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27/11/2008 06:19:17
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27/11/2008 06:27:56
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27/11/2008 06:36:49
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27/11/2008 06:43:49
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27/11/2008 06:45:07
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Angleland Isover,

27/11/2008 06:57:50
No matter how bad it gets in the next 10 years or so, homeless, jobless and starving you will still get a high percentage of unionists mumbling it could be worse we could have been Independant. If you aspire to be a slave then you are happy with a hot dinner.
59

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27/11/2008 06:58:30
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SouthernSkye,

27/11/2008 07:12:21
Some are saying the UK is in better shape than other countries to weather the storm.
That being so then:
WHY has the IMF warned HMG 10 times that borrowing is too high?
WHY are the lending institutions asking for greater securities from UK than from other countries such as Germany.
WHY has Sterling plummeted against other currencies?
(Anyone name a currency that Sterling has gained over in the last 6 monhts apart from the Zimbabwe currency?)

Come, answer the above and tell us all just HOW UK is better placed to weather this financial storm!
61

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 27/11/2008 07:19:24
Broon & Darling, not happy with having destroyed the UK finances and put the country into unprecedented debt, are now resorting to referring to what the tories did 20 years ago !!!!

They really have totally lost the plot and the sooner they are gone the better.
62

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27/11/2008 07:23:02
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27/11/2008 07:25:04
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 27/11/2008 07:31:57
64

The same place the "spongemaster par excellance" New Old Labour in Scotland hides.

I knew this would happen. Broon and Darling have got it totally wrong. Youy cannot spend your way out of a recession. The Whisky debacle has been reversed and the VAT debacle has been exposed.

After all, if they give us tax breaks now and borrow massively to plug what can only be described as a black hole of universal proportions (and created by Broon) then how do they recoupe the cash? Tax hikes later.

It's the oldest scam. Sucker the voters in with the offer of more cash then wham! Once we vote them in, up go taxes, down goes quality of life and we are trapped for another term with liers and cheats.

This looks like the 1992 election all over again.........
65

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27/11/2008 07:34:27
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27/11/2008 07:35:29
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 27/11/2008 07:40:56
I think Liebour are going to get hammered in the next election.

Fortunately Gordo the Broon is a ditherer so he won't hold an election until he has squeezed the last drops out of the voters.

Thankfully there is and will be a massive backlash in middle England as they have now been exposed as intending to raid thier pockets in the medium term.

I can see a Tory government coming in which, unfortunately, bring a whole new raft of problems.
68

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27/11/2008 07:43:25
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 27/11/2008 07:45:28
Fortunately the Tories will never be in power in Scotland and given it's the pick of a bad lot, the SNP is a case of betetr the devil you know.

Most important thing is to keep Labour out of Scotland in the mean time.

I look forward to the eventual hammering at the polls. I'm glad of Middle England at this point.
70

Jimmy Le Pie,

27/11/2008 07:49:21
Is no one at the Hootsmon doing journalism any more?

I see from the Times,

Unite, the union, halted Labour's crisis by guaranteeing its finances in a deal the party is refusing to make public, The Times has learnt.

http://tinyurl.com/6az5g4

Why the secrecy???
71

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 27/11/2008 07:58:48
71 Jimmy Le Pie

That's how Liebour operate. Smoke, Mirros and lies. They model themselves on the American form of democracy where it's a surveillance society and those that are against are removed.
72

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 27/11/2008 08:12:34
Whatever happened to Alex Salmond? Remember him?
73

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 27/11/2008 08:18:31
Salmond has absolutely no control over how Westmonster deal with the economy as Westmonster are still in over all control. That is a undeniable given and you would have to be pretty stoopid not to know that.

What he does need to do though is get himself out and about with some reassurances or at least a well done to Darling for reversing his awful decision over the Whisky industry taxation.
74

Queen D,

Glasgow 27/11/2008 08:22:55
Scott and others , you have just painted the dreadful picture that I have been trying not to look at!
I was beginning to think I was a little paranoid ,now I think I was spot on.
The idiot you thought to "take on " is not worth the effort Scott, so don't bother responding to the enfeebled.
WU Merchant, I am sure Mr Salmond is delighted by your concern for his well being, it is my understanding that he is unwell and no doubt, when better will rejoin the ranks of Holyrood.
If you think he should be speaking about the current and looming disaster ,then I have to advise you that the folk in charge and utterly responsible for the demise of this country are called the Labour Party.
75

Lianachan,

Highlands 27/11/2008 08:41:33
Ah, argumentum ad hominem and the straw man. Seemingly the only two debating techniques known to most of the unionists who "contribute" here. Can't anybody actually intelligently discuss the issues?
76

Marian,

27/11/2008 08:46:13
Fortunately the people of the UK have a track record of spotting political phonies a mile off. They know that all this spending and borrowing cannot be reconciled with temporary tax cuts. What they see is a New Labour government maxing out its own borrowing to try and win a general election, yet exhorting others to be responsible in their own borrowing. They know that in the long term there will be a price to pay for New Labour's recklessness with the public finances and they will not be bought off with a temporary cut in the rate of VAT.
77

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 08:58:39
Alastair Darling is being deceitful in pretending that the tax rises necessary are only going to have an effect on the better off. You cannot deal with a £118bn deficit by merely attempting to soak the rich. Many, many more in the country will have be hit by tax rises and it is fallacious to pretend otherwise.
78

Marga,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 09:00:04
Does noone else find the following paragraph revealing (Mandelson's words):

In a speech to the Institute of Directors, he said: "New Labour is about more than just the top tax rate. It is, above all, about maintaining stability in our economy to give business the confidence and predictability to invest."

Socialist values in a nutshell ...
79

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27/11/2008 09:22:15
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Brideun,

Culloden 27/11/2008 09:23:54
It appears to me that UK politicians are faced with an impossible task. Decades of free beer and fags for the won't work, a bloated public sector which produces nothing, a huge national debt and taxation which stifles private enterprise all have led the UK into a dead end. A state of emergency is required to lay down disciplined guide lines, which will have to be adhered to , may and only may save the day. Do we have a leader with the nerve and intelligence to apply this thankless task? Last hope one and all.
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Alan B,

27/11/2008 09:36:41
#Ugly George

"Alastair Darling is being deceitful"

Never Brown would allow that.
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27/11/2008 09:42:54
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jdships,

Edinburgh 27/11/2008 09:43:02
17 BeenThereOnce (didnae like it),

"None so blind as cannot see" comes to mind.
We have a PM who never gives a straight answer
witness PM's question time) to a question , we have a C of E who admits he has made a mistake on alchol taxation the day after he announces it .
We have a government who cannot explain how this borrowing is going to be paid for .
We have a government who has failed to prepare for a recession which has been on the cards for long enough.

Continuing death throes of New Labour? Champagne Socialists worrying thing is the legacy they are going to leave for the next generation

Suggest you also read and take on board the messages at 77/78



84

morris,

edinburgh 27/11/2008 09:53:14
77
Whilst I would like to agree with you Marian,the fact is that if the people could spot phonies as you claim the UK would have ceased to exist years ago.Scotland would have left and benefited from 40 or so years of oil revenues, when she in fact was conned by the so called Barnet formula.Scotland may receive more per head of population than England overall,but London which has 8.5 million on her own,takes far more from the UK than she contributes,as do a number of regions of England and because its per head of population it deals in decpetion rather than real meaningful arithmetic.Scotland contributes far moreto the UK than she receives from it , and those are the facts.Only creative accounting by WESTMONSTER can present a picture contrary to that.
The reduction in VAT isas much for propganda purposes of course, and contributes precious little, far too late,and will be more than offset by any increases in fuel duty which are almost certainly going to be implemented.Any taxes available will be offered as a pre election bribe secure in the knowledge that if Labours voters are so stupid they did not notice the abolition of the 10p band effectively doubling to 20p for our lowest earners they will certainly not comprehend that tax rebates are recoverable after the election, and the people were in fact conned,not that it takes very much conning!
Labour are in trouble The UK is in trouble.
What is the answer? Thats debatable but for Scotland it does not involve remaining in the UK.The sooner Scotland wakens to what many of us knew forty years ago the sooner Scotland will progress.
85

snoozyowl,

Wales 27/11/2008 09:54:05
If you want to know what the UK will be like in a very few years, study the recent history of Argentina. That country has declined steadily since WWII, leading to all sorts of currency collapses and so on. Not a pretty sight.
86

Iain's,

Barcelona 27/11/2008 09:54:53
This is exactly the spend and borrow policy that brought Thatcher to power.

Real Socialists, if they still exist, should vote Tory at the next election.
That way they get lefty leaning Dave rather than someone worse!

87

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 27/11/2008 09:56:00
As virtually all essentials are already VAT free or reduced rate VAT, the idea of increasing the standard rate is not so daft. If the rate was doubled to 35%, the government could afford to take well over 50% of the population out of income tax. People could then choose whether to spend their increased net income on high-rate VATable goods (most of which are imported anyway) or to save their money bu depositing it in banks/building societies or investing it in prpoerty or the stock market. These savings and investments would be real money unlike the funny-munny the the government is currently playing with and, provided interest rates were raised to re-create an incentive for saving, they would very quickly put the financial sector back on a firm footing.

Yes there would be casualties in the retail sector but perhaps a brand-conscious consumer-led economy is not any better than buccaneering bankers.
88

Calum10,

27/11/2008 09:56:17
The Unionist Dividend - Former Tory Chancellor Kenneth Clarke was even bleaker, warning MPs: "We are probably facing the longest and deepest recession in this country in my lifetime."

OECD forecasts shows that the economies of countries like Ireland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and even poor old Iceland will recover quickly. Not so the UK it will drag Scotland into the worst recession since the Great Depression.

The Unions Dividend equates to economic catastrophe for Scotland. Our nation is about to be bled dry by London. Independence can't come quick enough.
89

fiferjohn,

27/11/2008 11:26:12
time for some civil unrest like in thailand to get rid of the lying cheating scum that is the labour government.
take to the streets and bring the country to a stand still till they admit that they f**ked and do the honourable thing and quit.
90

fiferjohn,

27/11/2008 11:26:28
time for some civil unrest like in thailand to get rid of the lying cheating scum that is the labour government.
take to the streets and bring the country to a stand still till they admit that they f**ked up and do the honourable thing and quit.
91

brownlie,

27/11/2008 11:41:21
91 fiferjohn

That knock at your door is probably MI5.
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SouthernSkye,

27/11/2008 11:48:29
63 BeenThereOnce (didnae like it),

And the answers to my "armchair politics ponderings" are what?

I do like your style. No answers available so simply apply a barrage of insults.
I have a degree thanks, no need for the OU.
My arm chair is many miles away. However my office chair is near.

Come back when you can respond with valid comments.
I won't be taking the bait again until you do so.
93

Jimmy Le Pie,

27/11/2008 11:49:12
#92

I thought MI5 were in administration!!
94

fiferjohn,

27/11/2008 12:03:16
#92 still have free speech for now but the id cards are just the start of taking our liberties away unless we stand up fight against the government for our rights.gordon brown thinks he can do what ever he likes because he is a control freak.
95

lulach mac gille coemgain,

27/11/2008 12:29:50
I’ve identified the Global problem and it’s the ‘UK Labour Party’ !
96

Alan B,

27/11/2008 12:33:58
Labour: completely incompetent when it comes to running an economy. Why is anyone surprised this all ended in disaster.
97

Lianachan,

Highlands 27/11/2008 12:38:49
#93 - See my post at #76 !
98

Fairfax,

27/11/2008 12:54:44
Kampunghighlander (51): "You will notice that the G7 countries are listed by the size of their economy while the smaller countries are listed in alphabetical order."

As I recall, this statement is false: OECD reports simply list the US, Japan and Eurozone nations first.

"That means that the OECD is saying that the UK economy is somewhere between Italy and Canada in terms of size."

Italy, France and the UK all have roughly the same GDP, to a first approximation. Canada and Spain have roughly equal GDP.
99

Arfur,

27/11/2008 13:13:33
Brown and Darling have ruined this country and our lifes for the next 10 years. Plain and simple.
100

Arfur,

27/11/2008 13:14:23
yeah baby 100 whoop whoop
101

Brideun,

Culloden 27/11/2008 13:49:20
The last mess we were in took a person with sense and ability to get us out of it. That was , like her or not, Mrs Thatcher. I recall at the time it was thought that Western economies were doomed and I was surprised how quickly the UK got back on it's feet by having a strong leader. Tough decisions certainly did not please everyone but had to be made as inaction would have lead to bankruptcy and anarchy. Fact of life everything has to be paid for, everything is a trade off. Hopefully there is another Thatcher/Cromwell awaiting the call.
102

Alan B,

27/11/2008 14:16:47
#Brideun

Thatcher made alot of economic mistakes and also ran the economy for the benefit of the south.

Some of her basic principles were correct like ditching incomes policies, balancing budgets and not spending more than you have labour style, not having punitive taxation, running a capitalist economy and not state owned industry, controlling trade unions.

However she did make a mess of other things. Monetary policy was poor over the period. The currency was all over the place. Miras was silly. Lawsons policy of tracking the DM failed with the inflationary boom and bust. Howes monetary policy the core of early thatcher economics was abandonned as monetary targets did not track inflation rates. An over kill of interest rates during the recession of the early 80s pushed the pound far too high and killed off industry that would otherwise have been competetive.






103

,

27/11/2008 14:52:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
104

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

27/11/2008 15:02:58
The "debate" yesterday showed everytghing that is bad about UK politics. Instead of discussing the actual content of the pre-budget report - and at 237 pages there was plenty to discuss - we had the two front benches having a debate over what the more extreme non-alternatives were. Total nonsense.

Cameron and Brown look like modern-day Neros - they play the fiddle and deal in trivia whilst the UK burns.
105

Number 6,

Germany 27/11/2008 15:33:35
Yet more evidence, not that any more was needed, that Liebour have been a catastrophy for Scotland. Their legacy will be one of financial incompitence on a collosal scale. Scots will be paying the price of the "Union" dividend for decades to come.

And yet, we still see Scottish unionistas on here
defending this dreadful party and exposing themselves to ridicule from all sides for it.

Just what exactly would it take for Scottish unionistas to develop a spine,and stand up and take
responsibility(shudder) for their own destiny.How on earth to they expect to justify their continued support for this political shambles, infested with corrupt compulsive liars.

It must be obvious to them, surely that this is anything but the "Party of the Working man". Quite the contrary infact.So that leaves us with the old "ma Ma and ma Da voted fur thum".

Or that unionista classic "We cannae dae it on oor own"
We cannae dae it on oor own
Repeat adnauseam.
106

xen,

edinburgh 27/11/2008 15:44:49
to all those who unelentlessly demand scottish independence: an independent scotland with alex salmond as the leader? are u kidding me??? maybe we should sort out the scottish govt first
107

,

27/11/2008 15:57:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
108

,

27/11/2008 15:58:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
109

Lianachan,

Highlands 27/11/2008 16:04:03
#108 SNP are a tool with which to obtain independence. Once that's done we can worry about what government we want running the place.
110

Jimmy Le Pie,

27/11/2008 16:33:16
Good to see Alex, our First Minister, back to his storming best, wiping the floor with those non-entities that are laughingly called the opposition, at FMQ's.

Iain Grey looked like a rabbit caught in a cars headlights, Mrs Goldie gibbered as usual and Tavish might as well stayed at home.

Well done again Alex.
111

TWC,

27/11/2008 16:45:03
108 xen,

Anything is better than suffering the Downward spiral of Westminster Government, even Indeendence if necessary.
Financial Control or Independence no other option is acceptable.
Big Brown started talking for the world about the Indian terror incident, the guy is deluded, he actually now believes the Mantra he's been spouting
He needs to go
112

TWC,

27/11/2008 17:51:30
Breaking News a detailed copy of Labour's Economic Policy was found in Yhe Westminster Nursey....
113

TWC,

27/11/2008 17:51:55
The Snakes and Ladders Rulle book
114

SouthernSkye,

27/11/2008 18:54:40
83 Scott Webb.......,
All fine thanks, fine n dandy ;-)
I trust the same with you n yours?
It's been a while. I assume you have been concentrating your efforts elsewhere?
All the best.
115

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 27/11/2008 19:00:27
#110 Traquir

" Lots of Union dividends (oops bonuses) for England"

Good post, but you seem to be suggesting London equals England. I think people in Carlisle and Newcastle are just as remote as ourselves from these "British" institutions.

What would you say to moving the UK parliament to Wales, and the BBC HQ to Leeds? Would that help cement the Union, or make no difference?
116

,

27/11/2008 19:23:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
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117

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 27/11/2008 20:17:47
#118 Traquir

Thank for the reply.

I guess we differ on some ideas. I always vote for Scottish independence. But mainly because I think it would be better than the current arrangement. I have few nationalist tendencies (except perhaps the football), and prefer geography over politics. (I really love this bl**dy island.) But I often question whether resurrecting a 300 year-old political arrangement is the best way forward.

I agree that the Union has served it's purpose. That ended with the Empire. But I'm always disappointed that supporters of the Union offer no alternatives. They surely can't believe the current situation is ideal. That's why I floated the "parliament in Wales", "BBC in Leeds" idea. If any UK political party were to genuinely debate such alternatives, I'd listen.

London's domination is depressing. 50 million people in Britain live outside its boundaries, yet somehow, if we want to "make it" we have to go there.

But I think we agree the current setup is horribly wrong.
118

,

27/11/2008 21:08:06
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119

Jimmy Le Pie,

27/11/2008 23:03:47
Just watching Douglas Alexander getting a torrid time on Question Time.

Looks like no one believes that Comrade Broon and Captain Darling have saved the world economies.

No surprise there then!
120

Phil1,

Edinburgh 02/12/2008 15:17:47
famous 15,Edinburgh 27/11/2008 00:50:17
Says he warned evryone 50 years ago - now just how did you do that or was it the drink talking IN THE WEE small hours with a wee dram??

How being small with no reserves and unable to borrow would help in the present world crisis beats me - but I support the union so no doubt iI caused this crisis as a plot in London to keep the union.

I blame James 1 if hadn't been greedy and gone off (to London like so many famous SCOTSMEN Sean Connery and Alex Slamond, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Robin Cook, John Smith, Doanald Dewar, Alister Darling etc) to claim the power and the throne in England in 1603 then maybe there wouldn't have been the need for a union of Parliaments in 1707 because there never would have been a union of crowns.

Oops I fogot SNP know nothing about actual real history too busy watching Braveheart to learn what really happened in the past.

 

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