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David Cameron: No more power handed to EU without referendum

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Published Date: 05 November 2009
DAVID Cameron yesterday promised to change the law so that no more powers could be transferred to Europe without the say of the British people in a referendum.
After abandoning his "cast-iron" promise of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the Conservative leader pledged that the British people would not be denied a voice in the future as he attempted to placate his party's Eurosceptics. Mr Cameron also anno
unced that he would create a Sovereignty Bill that would ensure that British law takes precedence over European law.

The Conservative leader acknowledged that Tory plans for a referendum on Lisbon were over as soon as the Czechs became the 27th and final state to sign up to the treaty on Tuesday.

But he added: "We will make sure that this never, ever happens again.

"Never again should it be possible for a British government to transfer power to the European Union without the say of the British people in a referendum," he said.

The Tories had hoped that the Czech Republic would delay signing the treaty until after next year's General Election, a scenario that would have allowed an in-coming Tory government to hold a UK-wide poll.

Mr Cameron conceded that the Lisbon referendum option was no longer feasible now that the treaty had been "incorporated into EU law", pointing out that new posts of president and foreign minister were being created.

"We cannot hold a referendum and magically make those posts or the Lisbon Treaty itself disappear, any more than we could hold a referendum to stop the sun rising in the morning," Mr Cameron said.

According to Mr Cameron, a Conservative government would amend the European Communities Act 1972 to prohibit the transfer of power to the EU without a referendum.

That would cover any future attempt to take Britain into the European single currency, he said.

"We will give the British people a referendum 'lock' to which only they should hold the key, a commitment very similar to that which exists in Ireland," Mr Cameron said.

"This is a major constitutional development, but I believe it's now the only way to reassure the British people that powers cannot be given away without their explicit approval in a referendum."

But within his own party, the Eurosceptic MP Douglas Carswell insisted that some sort of referendum on Britain's relationship with the EU was still essential.

"I fully accept that a referendum on Lisbon may no longer be possible, but nobody under the age of 52 has ever had the chance to vote on our membership and our relationship," Mr Carswell said. "It's changed quite dramatically since we joined. We've not only opposed the Lisbon Treaty but, as Conservatives, we've spent 12 years opposing the Nice Treaty and the Amsterdam Treaty.

"I think we need to have a referendum. Most MPs promised to have a referendum at the election… I think this is about credibility."

Mr Carswell added: "I think we need a referendum to allow us to go to Europe and renegotiate, and to hold a referendum on the deal we come back with."

Mr Cameron tried to take on his internal critics by saying that it would not be right to hark back to Lisbon when the country was facing an economic crisis.

"I recognise there are some who, now that we cannot have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, want a referendum on something else… anything else.

"But I just don't think it's right to concoct some new pretext for a referendum simply to have one for the sake of it.

"Would we really want to turn round straight after an election, with the public finances in the state they are in and the economy as fragile as it is, and ask the same question all over again?"





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1

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

04/11/2009 23:09:59

Honest, statesmanlike and pragmatic.

Excellent qualities in the next Prime Minister of Her Britannic Majesty's Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, don't you think?
2

Cynicus Unbound,

05/11/2009 00:02:05

"Excellent qualities in the next Prime Minister of Her Britannic Majesty's Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, don't you think?"-#1 Group Captain Lionel Mandrake

No, I don't.

If you are going to do grandiloquence, Smee, you will have to raise your game. You missed out the "First Lord of the Treasury" haunle tae the jug o' your pin-up boay.

Am I Right?

Do ursine quadrupeds defecate in sylvan environments? Is the Holiness of Our Lord in Communion with the See of Rome?

That's how to do grandiloquence. You have my permission to add the above to your repertoire.

3

danbob,

05/11/2009 00:25:34
So David refuses a referendom on the Lisbon treaty and thinks to himself,"How can I keep the plebs happy" I know I will promise one on the next treaty, In the hope they will not be one. And the plebs will vote for me. What a cynical piece of politics. Right out of the Blair cupboard. The sad part is, the plebs will vote for him.
4

Fletty,

05/11/2009 00:53:24
All UK fiscal powers will soon be in the hands of the IMF if Labour get re-elected.
5

,

05/11/2009 01:17:23
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6

langtonian,

uphall 05/11/2009 01:52:54
Somehow, seems very appropriate date of Nov5th for David Cameron to drive wedges into what has been up till the current "referendum debacle" a Conservative Party unified in all internal policy matters.

Where Guy Fox was rumbelled prior to his explosive intentions within Westminster environs;David Cameron can be seen to have lit a slow burning fuse that will in due passage of time scupper Conservative party chances of being elected at 2010 Westminster elections.

The galling thing from his own personal point of view must be that it can be viewed either as an own goal;or a more seriouse result being,he has pressed the self destruct button,Guy Fox could have learned much had he had the opportunity to appreciate D.C.operational techniques.

Kenneth Clark;one of D.C.front bench spokepersons is most likely to eradicate his leaders name from any Christmas card list he was making up for the up and comming festive season.
7

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 05/11/2009 04:10:40
When can you tell an english mp is lying, he moves his lips.....................
8

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 05/11/2009 04:24:55
All is not lost Scotland. When we vote for INDEPENDECE in 2010, we will become an Independent Nation again and will not be PART OF THE UNITED KINGDOM WHO SIGNED THE LISBON TREATY. Therefore we can decide if we wish to abide by this thing or not... ROLL ON THE REFERENDUM ON INDEPENDENCE AND BE DONE WITH THE english and europe. Let's be like Norway Sweden Switzerland and hang on to our WEALTH, OIL GAS WATER PEOPLE. Have a nice day...........
9

,

05/11/2009 05:16:25
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10

,

05/11/2009 05:24:42
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11

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 05/11/2009 05:32:23
Nothing works in England. Whereas France, Germany, Spain do big jobs on time, to budget, to spec.. As an engineer, I have no time to blether with Kipper-faced Cameron and you shouldn't either!
12

Organic peasant,

N E Scotland 05/11/2009 07:20:39
Cast Iron Cameron. Referendums for everything, except Scotland of course.
13

Douglas,

Bathgate 05/11/2009 07:44:06
That cast iron eh? Not what it was I'm afraid.
As for his Sovereignty Bill, is that rock solid or do the citizens of Gibraltar need an engineers report?
He's fast moving from a lightweight to an opportunist liar.
14

cabrach loon,

inverness 05/11/2009 07:57:52
great idea #5 re EU, maybe England etc. then being a different entity then must renegotiate too! Good news all round?
15

paulr,

edinburgh 05/11/2009 08:06:49
"nobody under the age of 52 has ever had the chance to vote on our membership "

Nobody over the age of 52 either, nobody except westminster politicians, who made all sorts of promises to constituents(as usual) then reneged on every one of them( as usual).
16

mr broon,

Edinburgh 05/11/2009 08:24:39
It has just been reported that a senior Tory(Kenneth
Clarke?)is on the point of resigning?
17

Foresight,

Edinburgh 05/11/2009 08:33:28



Gordon Brown is so in command of his brief that he spent Question Time yesterday talking of "iron cast" promises. His mind is clearly like iron......all mixed up and permanently set !!!
18

Linda,

Edinburgh 05/11/2009 08:41:29
Where is his support for a referendum on Scottish independence?
19

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 05/11/2009 08:50:54
How about David Cameron takes the right stance on the only referendum that counts in Scotland. If he respects our opinions his party should should give us a democratic choice, independence vs union, and back the SNP's bill.
20

Mèths,

05/11/2009 08:53:59
Europe says no.
21

Yeah1,

05/11/2009 09:10:54
"Another SNP election pledge has yet to bear fruit, complain critics"

How many is that now? Have they actually fulfilled any of their manifesto pledges??
22

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 05/11/2009 09:27:00
I have no allegiance to the Tories, but could the Beeb please stop its nonsensical 'attacks' on Cameron? Okay, he gave a 'cast iron guarantee' that he would hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, but that was totally dependant on jis being in power. He's not. End of story.
23

Ugly George,

05/11/2009 09:46:46
15 paulr
I'm not sure if you appreciate the significance of the age of 52.

A Conservative govt took the UK into the EEC (as it then was) in 1972. Labour won the 1974 general election and held a referendum in 1975 on whether we should stay in. You have to be 52 or over to have been old enough to vote in the 1975 referendum.

In the seventies the Tories were seen as Europhiles and Labour as Eurosceptics. Funny how things change.
24

Mike S,

05/11/2009 10:11:05
I remember the 1975 referendum and we voted to stay in as abstensions weren't counted against like the previous devolution referendum. But we stayed in the EEC however it evolved into the EC then the EU. These subtle changes of European title were significant changes in its scope but we were not consulted. It was originally a free trade area now it is becoming a cumbersome, unaccountable political white elephant.
25

Oldcrafty,

05/11/2009 10:15:02
(S)Tory backslider nuliebor backslider, no difference one and the same.
26

TWC,

exLabour 05/11/2009 11:00:26
I must admit I do not see the need for both UK and Europe if Sovreignty is being given up.
27

Ewan Randall,

05/11/2009 11:11:17
Is there not a possibility here that this ruling could stretch to constitutional changes too?

If this is the case then would this not mean that before Scotland could vote on a referendum over the future of Scotland there would have to be one by the UK public to allow this?
28

,

05/11/2009 11:24:10
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29

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 11:47:42
Another "cast iron guarantee" from Cameron. Weasel words.
30

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 11:49:37
-7

If SNP supporters have no truck for anti-English comments, where are the complaints regarding this comment?

31

Ewan Randall,

05/11/2009 11:51:39
If the rest of the EU accepts changes and the UK does not because the people of the UK believe them to be unacceptable then would that not make the UK incompatible with the EU?

What would be the point in staying with those the UK believed they were incompatible with?
32

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 11:55:11
-8

Wise words from someone in Lanark, sorry Larkhall, sorry LA!!

I'd be motre inclined to accept these outpourings were the poster living and paying tax here.
33

,

05/11/2009 11:55:50
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34

langtonian,

uphall 05/11/2009 11:56:19
Andrew Neil did say on mid day polotics show he was dissapointed that Charels Clark had not turned up(dont blame him-who needs a political roasting that is none of your making).A.N. comments would have been interesting;still we can catch the "mood"@ 11.35pm This Week.

Skin and fur flying expected at Holyrood-now.
35

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 11:58:01
Why isn't The Scotsman allowing comment on the 'Fruit fro Kids'thread. Allowing the SNP to escape the public's censure is not very democratic.

Another one bites the dust.
So many promises broken, in so little time.

The end must surely be in sight when the SNP runs out of promises to break. Oh, wrong thread.

36

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 12:00:25
-34

i stand corrected - it isn't just separatists who can be abusive.

It hasn't been ratified by the British people. Full stop. We should have our say.
37

Ugly George,

05/11/2009 12:08:10
31 Weegirlie
Scotindy comes on during the middle of the night (our time) with a daily rant and somehow believes that putting some of it in capital letters lends it some credibility.

You will notice that virtually everybody just ignores these rants.
38

Ugly George,

05/11/2009 12:13:00
37 Weegirlie
"It hasn't been ratified by the British people. Full stop. We should have our say."

The point is tht by the time the Tories gain power (if they do) the Lisbon treaty will be law so having a say cannot make any difference. The only way to be exempt from the Lisbon Treaty would be to leave the EU.
39

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 12:19:48
-38

Yes, it is a learning process, isn't it.
40

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 12:28:36
-39

Yes, I understand the outcome. That said, all countries involved in the EU should be allowed an opportunity to vote on it, a simple point of principle.

Hiding behind this apparent pointlessness also avoids Cameron (et all) the ramifications if we dared to vote 'no'.

41

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 12:31:44
39

Yes, I understand the outcome. That said, all countries involved in the EU should be allowed an opportunity to vote on it, a simple point of principle.

Hiding behind this apparent pointlessness also avoids Cameron (et all) the ramifications if we dared to vote 'no'.

42

Frank Spencer and Betty,

05/11/2009 12:55:38
#42 WeeGirlie

Why should the people get a say in it? Pure hypocricy on the part of unionists!

The uk should have to hand all their money and economic powers to the EU. After all it is an excellent idea that the unionists do not want to lose for Scotland.

The UK should then have to live with what the EU gives us back as pocket money, brilliant idea, no referendum for the UK people. If it is not good enough for Scotland then it is not good enough for the UK.

It is amazing watching the quislngs from the English-funded unionist parties spout their hypocricy on these threads.
43

WeeGirlie,

05/11/2009 13:02:14
-43

Mmmm, oooh, Betty!!
44

Ted & Janet,

Belwood Ontario Canada 05/11/2009 13:05:35
From all the comments I see on these blogs, I think it would be better for the UK to leave the European Union and try to exist on your own! That would be a hard thing to do imho! Just look across the Sea to see why the Irish Republic endorsed the second Vote on the LisbonTreaty, the EU saved there bacon! without the strength of the European Union, Ireland would have been a basket case.
45

Frank Spencer and Betty,

05/11/2009 13:26:27
#45 Ted & Janet

The Irish Republics big mistake was to copy the UK with regard to financial matters and the burst housing bubble. Somehow can't see them being so stupid again. Other similar countries like Denmark did not get into that state because they did not follow that path.
46

Fitba Krazy,

05/11/2009 13:46:46

So giving links to the Independence parties is abusive?

Typical patronising and anti-democratic.

Why would someone complain about being independent of anti-democratic establishments?
47

lulach mac gille coemgain,

05/11/2009 14:08:52
Why are the English so afraid of governance from outside of their borders ? After all Scotland has had to accept it without referendum for 300 years.
48

danbob,

05/11/2009 14:13:41
48# Derrrrr. Unless I am mistaken reading these posts most scots dont like being ruled by unelected european officials either. How many english have commented on here. Done a head count have we. Fool
49

danbob,

05/11/2009 14:17:20
46# They didnt set out to copy anything. The housing boom was a product of massive outside investment in the Irish economy. Thats what you get with this system. It's called a tiger economy and no way would the Irish government be able to resist a future one either. Dont be fooled. The evidence of a repeat in the next twelve years is there.
50

Alan B,

05/11/2009 15:00:16
#danbob

re the irish economy i disagree.

The housing boom was was due joining the euro with lower interest rates when they were already booming with very high levels of growth. They should have ridden the boom and waited until the economy naturally slowed down to more sustainable levels before joining.

The euro zone interest rates were also lower at that time due to recession in germany and france around the late 90s. Germany had been struggling to restructure after reunification with many political rather than economic decisions being made.

Ireland made the same mistake as the uk by not controlling house price inflation.

Like the uk they should have implemented quantitive controls on levels of credit. (only real option given the lack of control over interest rates)

As such it was the boom and success of the irish economy followed by massive and uncontrolled property inflation. They also had a bit of a weird idea that inflation would be controlled by international competition without specific measures.
51

Alan B,

05/11/2009 15:02:09
#49 danbob

Do not think you can really draw that conclusion from this thread.
52

danbob,

05/11/2009 15:29:01
51# I would not disagree with your synopsis on the Irish economy Alan. However they didn't set out to copy the UK. They were just swept along.

I agree we did need credit controls in place. However we all know turkeys won't vote for Christmas. We have no manufacturing base left in this country that can sustain the economy, It certainly cannot pull us out of it. This is why the government is desperatly trying to give the golden goose the kiss of life. It will all happen again in the usual twelve year cycle. No way will the nessecery controls ever be in place. Good grief they cannot even bring themselves to upset the bankers on the issue of bonuses. It's as sad as it is pathetic.

As for my comment at 49# Yes I do think most scots dont like being controlled by europe. Some like Westminster less. However when the grass looks greener on the other side it rearly is. Usualy it's just different grass. Most of us know this. This whole Europe, Westminster, Scotland triangle needs a bit of honesty brought into the debate.
53

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

05/11/2009 17:11:03
51

"The housing boom was was due joining the euro with lower interest rates when they were already booming with very high levels of growth."

Yes. That's the Euro which you keep saying Scotland should have been in instead of the £.

Resulting in an even more extreme, Irish-style boom-and-bust than the one we're having.

Are you remotely capable of analysing the stuff you come out with?
54

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 05/11/2009 17:16:26
David Cameron can phish in the wind for all we're concerned. We're totally integrated with Electric Universe or EU as you prefer. As with Brazil, Russia and New Zealand.

www.holoscience.com/ntt

Illumati Winds played in the Port of Invergordon.
55

Yok Finney,

Ross-shireI 05/11/2009 17:41:46
This recession is no worse than last year or the one before. The UK is permanent recession. If you think an Economy is based on property and financial speculation, it's the way it goes.

It's autumn like it should be and a great time for rabitting & ferreting. D'you fanncy a saddle and haunch or a bit or Cameron's *rse?

We don't have GIRNERS here.
56

Organic peasant,

N E Scotland 05/11/2009 18:30:15
Amused by the UKIP and Eurosceptic position on all this. We can have a free trade deal if we exercise sufficient will power. Free trade was never on offer all that available is the EU. UKIP are liars but nothing new there. Cast Iron Cameron’s Sovereignty bill interest’s me though. Vesting Sovreignty in Westminster seems a very alien concept to a Scot. We hold our Sovereignty in the Scottish people. If maybe sounding a bit too Braveheart ish. I think thats why we fear the EU much less. As to the general Eurosceptic fixation with referendums why are theirs good and Scots ones bad? If the nation state is dead after Lisbon as they claim why are they so against us in Scotland having those powers? They can’t have it both ways.
57

danbob,

05/11/2009 22:03:40
60 Always find people who laugh at their own insults rather sad. It has to be said they dont come sadder than you. So many words and so little substance. I wonder how long you will last this time?
58

WeeGirlie,

06/11/2009 09:20:03
-60

An example of the SNP troll looking to get this thread cancelled.

 

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