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Irish turn away from EU treaty as referendum nears



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Published Date: 07 June 2008
A SURGE in the number of Irish voters planning to vote No on the European Union's reform treaty sent shock waves through Brussels yesterday.
Ireland is the only one of the EU's 27 states holding a referendum on the reforms, with a vote set this Thursday. An opinion poll showing opposition had dramatically hardened brought warnings of a defeat that would set off a "chain reaction".

Th
e Treaty of Lisbon sets out to reform the EU after it nearly doubled in size. It contains many proposals from the EU's failed constitution, which voters in France and the Netherlands shot down in 2005.

They include a long-term president of the European Council of EU leaders, a stronger foreign policy chief with a real diplomatic service, a more democratic voting system and more say for national and European parliaments.

But a survey of 1,000 voters conducted for the Irish Times showed 35 per cent planned to vote No, up from only 17 per cent in the same poll three weeks ago, a surge that has doubled the number against the treaty. The Yes camp stood at 30 per cent, down from 35 per cent.

Supporters of the reform treaty say it will forge a stronger European Union. But there is no alternative in place if the treaty is defeated.

"If the No vote wins there will be a cry of pain from the rest of the EU. We've been struggling to reform for years and there is no prospect of renegotiating the treaty," said the Liberal Democrat MEP Andrew Duff.

"People are very scared in Brussels, because it is going to be a real mess if the Irish vote No," said Jose Ignacio Torreblanca, senior research fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations think tank. "A No vote would unleash a sort of chain reaction," he said. Britain and others could suspend ratification, leaving the EU to soldier on with old decision-making structures straining under the weight of 27 member states, he added.

The EU's 26 other members are ratifying the document through their national parliaments and administrations, but Ireland requires all EU treaties to be ratified by referendum.

A No vote on Thursday could turn a meeting of EU leaders the following week into a crisis summit and put a cloud over the incoming French EU presidency.

The Irish finance minister, Brian Lenihan, said yesterday the poll showed that the public was being confused by a wide range of fringe anti-EU pressure groups.

They have plastered Dublin with posters warning that the treaty will permit other EU countries to dictate policies to Ireland, including raising its business tax rates and legalising abortion. All the claims were nonsense, Mr Lenihan said.

But despite backing from farmers and other lobbies, some treaty supporters say the Yes campaign has struggled to explain the benefits of the treaty.



The full article contains 487 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 June 2008 11:05 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: European Union
 
1

truthsleuth,

07/06/2008 00:42:38
Eire has taken its easy money from the EU and now running away with the benefits.
They should be made repay these grants.
2

Senga Jean,

07/06/2008 00:48:25
#1 Bulldust!
3

Zilperhonka,

07/06/2008 01:03:29
If the other countries could only grow a pair and demand referendums from their governments like the Irish did, if only.

They don't seem to feel they are entitled to have a say in the running of their country though, unlike the Irish.



4

An Beal Bacht,

07/06/2008 01:51:04
Aye - poor wee Ireland gets to decide the fate of the EU. What was it unionists said about an independent Scotland? Too small to have a voice in the world?
5

brian mcc,

the actic 07/06/2008 03:07:52
and when will Britain join the European Union?
6

Castaway,

07/06/2008 03:55:32
"We will put it - the EU Constitution - to the British people in a referendum and campaign whole-heartedly for a 'Yes' vote." - Labour Party manifesto, May 2005
"The manifesto is what we put to the public. We've got to honour that manifesto." - Gordon Brown, BBC 1 Politics Show, June 24, 2007
But now we have the Lisbon Treaty which isn't the EU Constitution and the Government’s claims that a referendum was not necessary, because it was no longer called a constitution.
We are promised a referendum before we join the Euro, just change the name of the Euro (to Eureo ?) and the Government would claim that a referendum was not necessary, because it was no longer called the Euro.
Tories are all mouth,Party leader David Cameron said even if Parliament ratified the treaty, a Tory government would hold a referendum.
The Tories would hold a referendum on the EU treaty, if they won power before it was ratified by all EU states and canvass for a no vote.
If the Tories are against the LT now it will still be the same LT after the next UK GE.
7

Scott_B,

07/06/2008 04:52:37
Well done Ireland. Thanks to our charlatan so called leaders, and sleeping populace, Ireland's vote is all that stands in front of this massive power grab by the EU.

Here's to a no vote, and forcing the governments of Europe to do this properly - go to the peoples of each country and have a referendum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p9VC_P3Gf8
8

donald,

glasgow 07/06/2008 04:56:52
Scotland was offered EU grants too. Smother England refused to pay the equivilant, that is match the grants pound for pound, as the Irish Governments have done.
9

Jimmy the Pie,

07/06/2008 07:09:44
And why are Ireland getting a vote????

Oh yes, they're an independent nation!!!!!
10

Dougie, Edinburgh,

07/06/2008 07:11:48
The real disgrace here is that no population other than Eire's has been offered a referendum. The only reason Eire's was is that the EU thought it was a safe bet. The bureaucrats who run the EU don't actually trust the public to make the "right" decisions. For an example of the EU's contempt for democracy, see

"Blair must ignore public opinion, says Barroso"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1554402/Blair-must-ignore-public-opinion%2C-says-Barroso.html

11

Dougie, Edinburgh,

07/06/2008 07:13:39
9 Jimmy the Pie
There are no independent nations in the EU. Three quarters of our new laws come directly from unelected EU bodies and independence isn't going to change that.
12

,

07/06/2008 07:44:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

Guga II,

Rockall 07/06/2008 07:47:23
Let's hope the Irish succeed with their NO vote. At least they have the democratic right to vote yes or no.

We, on the other hand, were promised a vote by the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, but that liar, charlatan and war criminal, Maggie Broon, is too scared that the people will vote no.

In any event, he probably has a deal with that other liar, charlatan and war criminal, Bliar, to try and ensure that Bliar gets the job of EU president.
14

Bejjy,

07/06/2008 07:54:37
13 Guga

You missed the words North British Branch out of your daily repetitive rant. Boring, boring, boring.
15

Ivan D,

Europe 07/06/2008 07:57:49
Where are our European leaders this weekend?, at a secret meeting of course, that the mainstream media is forbidden from reporting. The Bilderberg meeting, its happening right now, in the US.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66198
or
Google News, Bilderberg
16

whitegold,

Shire 07/06/2008 08:11:08
#14 wrote:
"daily repetitive rant. Boring, boring, boring. "

On the contrary Guga is absolutely correct.

"We, on the other hand, were promised a vote by the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, but that liar, charlatan and war criminal, Maggie Broon, is too scared that the people will vote no."

The fact of Labour's lies and contempt for democracy can't be repeated too much.

If the desire for honesty in those representing us and for democracy in a society is 'boring, boring, boring' to you then why not go to Burma, N. Korea or Iran?
17

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 07/06/2008 08:45:09

At least democracy rules in Ireland, more than can be said for the UK or any other country in Europe.
18

Jimmy the Pie,

07/06/2008 08:54:09
12 happy english,

You sound like someone who harbours grudges and hate.

You will never have bought any German, Italian or Japanese products then?? Argentinian beef??

Is it not time for you to grow up and stop acting like a petulant child???

19

bill2,

07/06/2008 08:56:59
Good on the Irish!
20

,

07/06/2008 09:38:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
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21

SouthernSkye,

07/06/2008 10:10:11
I read, a few days ago, that if Eire votes no then it is possible they will be asked to leave the EU. Now THAT my friends, is EU democracy in action !
22

ThomasP,

07/06/2008 10:14:17
"But despite backing from farmers and other lobbies, some treaty supporters say the Yes campaign has struggled to explain the benefits of the treaty."

If the European Leaders actually spoke to the public and explained why the treaty is great in the first place.

Do you think the public is idiotic to say yes to something they do not understand?
23

albanman,

edinburgh 07/06/2008 11:03:29
#21: Now where exactly did you read that nonsense? There is no legal provision for a member of the EU being "asked to leave".
24

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 07/06/2008 11:21:36
Yes the Irish People are exercising the same right that the Scottish People will have in our Nation, when we get rid of the English Scourge. That is a Constitution that guarantees the right of the Scottish People to be asked to vote on any major issue, like selling your country down the drain to an EU. Like Norway we can choose to be selective on the EU. We are the EU's main Oil and Fishing Nation. An independant Scotland can take its wares out into the entire world. Why fall into the same trap again, by signing a treaty with anyone that lessens Scots to make the decisions that concern our land.

If Scotland does not get its Independance, we will as a result of being shackled to the London, will cease to have the right to call ourselves a Nation. We will become a region of the EU, just like England and Wales. The EU has already released its plans for the Nine Regions of the former individual nations, who will only be recognised as Britain.

We must get Brown out of office as quickly as possible.

We must take our Independance back.

We must introduce constitutional laws that forbid Scotland from ever allowing others control over our Nation.

We must build up relationships with as many other nations, to enable the export of our products, without fear or favour.

The interests of the Scottish People can never be trusted to any other Nations. Our elected Politicians must never have the power to form any exchange of power, without the consent of the Scottish People in a free Vote, and a mechanism should be inbuilt to allow the Scottish People to remove any government that they feel is working against the common good of our Nation.
25

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 07/06/2008 11:41:35
If we have felt the need to be independent of England it's always struck me as odd why the SNP want to have "independence in Europe". Why cast off one set of shackles and then remain attached to the body which sets the majority of UK law?

We should have complete control of our fisheries and end the nonsense over access to our own fishing grounds. I think the collective sigh of relief from Scottish fishermen would be heard from miles away!
26

ThomasP,

07/06/2008 11:50:40
25 The Former Mr. Angry

Scotland could have influence similar to Norway.

Far better then what we currently have.
27

Border Scot,

07/06/2008 12:03:56
#24 - "The English scourge". So speaks the unacceptable face of Scottish nationalism.

#26 - In other words, absolutely none at all. In order to trade withthe EU Norway must implement EU laws, but has absolutely no say at all in how they are framed. Is that what you want for Scotland. And as for the oil, whether we are in the EU or not makes no differece unless we nationalise the oil fields. At the moment oil is extracted by private companies, Scotland does not own it. It is different in Norway, of course, because the government has retained a significant stake in extraction.
28

Neil,

Glasgow 07/06/2008 12:14:07
"The Irish finance minister, Brian Lenihan, said yesterday the poll showed that the public was being confused by a wide range of fringe anti-EU pressure groups.

They have plastered Dublin with posters..."

Or to put it another way the TV & press had all been squared to push for a Yes vote but individuals have still found a small way to get heard & this means the voters are being "confused" by getting a choice.

We may all remember the the way our media declred the recent Russian elections because most of the media, like most of the people, supported Putin. Presumably we are about to see our media describing Ireland (& indeed the UK) as "undemocratic|" because the media has ben so one sided.

Or perhaps not.
29

TimOC,

Dublin 07/06/2008 12:34:13
10# We have not been "offered" a referendum. Being an independent nation with a written constitution which makes the people, not parliament sovereign we, the people, the rulers of our country, are the only people capable or qualified to make ammend fundamental laws such as European treaties. We have not been "granted" a referendum, we gave ourselves that right when we, the people, voted in that constitution in 1937. I understand that this might seem strange some of our more ignorant neighbours but ignorance is no defence when making such absurd declarations.
30

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 07/06/2008 12:45:35
One can only hope and pray that the Irish will vote no. Then we can begin dismantling the corrupt shambles that is the EU.
31

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 07/06/2008 12:57:49
Is the Irish 'No' vote not a reassertion of Irish independence in the face of overwhelming resources and pressure being put on them to return a 'Yes' vote?

Is this not the scenario that may well face the unionists in a Scottish referendum in 2010, where a momentum for independence could well prevail despite the pressures that the British state will put on to say no and despite what the present polling figures show? They theought the Irish would nod through a 'Yes'

I think the zeitgeist of Europe is to smaller units and more independence. The superstate, political interfering, regulation imposing Europe, I think, has had its day.
32

Alba Abú,

Dunedin 07/06/2008 13:48:30
#1 Would you then agree that Britain should repay to the Irish people the spoils of 700 years of occupation of that country.The theft of lands and property the degradation of its people by denying them their basic human rights?( the right to vote being one of them)Should the Irish people be compensated for the massacres,the murders and the sometimes down right barbarism of the then British occupyers? Please tell us all!
33

Alba Abú,

Dunedin 07/06/2008 13:56:35
#12 crappy English.. You are living proof as to why the Scottish people should now leave the discredited union.You are a narrow minded sick bigot who obviously has not done his or her homework in relation to Ireland's position during the second world war. Oh! you forgot to mention one little point, and that is that 60,000 men from the south of Ireland enlisted in to the British armed forces in order to fight those who held similar views to the ones that you hold i.e. FASCISM!
34

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 07/06/2008 13:57:21
Well done the Irish. The only people in Europe not to vote for a pig in a bureacratic poke.

P.S any one out there know the Gaelic spelling of the name Callum? We have a new addition to the family.
35

Zilperhonka,

07/06/2008 14:10:40
"The real disgrace here is that no population other than Eire's has been offered a referendum. The only reason Eire's was is that the EU thought it was a safe bet."

They aren't 'offering' Ireland anything. Neither the EU nor the Irish govt have a choice. European treaties have to be put to the people in Ireland owing to a supreme court decision 20 years ago.

#32 Thank you. In fact the Irish state was still making payments for it's land which it bought back from the colonial plantation owners as late as the 70's. In truth the full figure for the exploitation of Ireland's land over centuries might top 1 trillion. Add compensation for lives lost due to violent oppression and/or genocides, linguicide, lost revenue from businesses deliberately destroyed by taxation or law, religious hatred etc and the full figure could be 10 times this amount. I wonder how much the crown jewels are worth, hmmm....

36

Alba Abú,

Dunedin 07/06/2008 14:12:02
# 34 .Buckpool Gaelic version of Callum is Chaluim

Slan agus bannacht mo chara!
37

Alba Abú,

Dunedin 07/06/2008 14:23:07
#35 Zilperhonka......Very good post! In relation to the Irish crown jewels.These jewels were stolen from a strongbox in Dublin castle in the year 1912.One of the items stolen was the St.Patrick's broach.This broach can be seen to this day on the person of the Queen of England.It is said that one of the English soldiers charged with guarding the Irish crown jewels was actually responsible for stealing them.It is believed that he handed the stolen goods over to a son of the famine Queen, Victoria. Who it was reported at the time, he was having an affair with. (see story of Irish crown jewels)
38

Zilperhonka,

07/06/2008 15:13:53
"Well done the Irish. The only people in Europe not to vote for a pig in a bureacratic poke."

This is just a poll result and it was taken at a time when the farmers unions were urging their members to vote no, Cowen has moved to reassure the farmers and they have reversed their loyalties... it's not a done deal.

Alba Abú

Well i was thinking more of the British Crown Jewels and a pawnbroker... and not being too serious about it either. It is true that in the royal familly's collections there are treasures stolen from all over the world, including sacred religious relics and crowns from Ethiopia which are never even taken out of the container's that store them in vaults.


39

,

07/06/2008 16:05:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
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40

Neil,

Glasgow 07/06/2008 16:24:57
Perhaps we just need a constitution1 One with lots of limits on what government can do to/for us.
41

SouthernSkye,

07/06/2008 16:46:58
23 albanman,edinburgh
Here for one. Just cntrl+F leave

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4040731.ece
42

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 07/06/2008 17:18:13
#36 Alba Abu: Much obliged for both the information and the blessing.
43

Alberto.,

07/06/2008 18:19:17
Considering the antics the EU and the Governments desperate to support them are getting up to, it would seems a certainty they will 'overcome' any opposition, by 'fair or foul means' as this seems to be blatantly displayed as their 'Modus Operandi!'

New Labour has been, and still is, getting us acclimatised to such a method of Government (obviously a style that is failing miserably by having to introduce 'Bully boy' methods ( not a good companion for Democracy - no matter how it’s dressed up!) - as we shall see soon enough!

I understand, when total control by the EU is achieved - as it probably will, unless 'come the revolution led by Ireland', it will become a criminal offence to criticise the EU and its methods, with serious penalties for doing so (Long prison term never to be seen again and / or perhaps being shot!) memories of 1939 and all that all over again!

Do we really want all that again after the trouble we went to first time - I don't think so - once is too much!

So if criticism is to become a criminal offence, presumably there will be no elections - of any type, in the future, as all votes 'against' will, by law, be considered critical and therefore 'Null and void!'

Such appears to be the description of EU style of Democracy, where a winning hand is always essential!

They certainly know how to play their cards - especially when opposition is non-existent!

So, come on Ireland, a million times or more, vote 'NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! ad infinitum - we have had enough of Political shambles and control from both elected and unelected people whose greatest ability to date seems to be ‘expert personal financial greed’ - above all else!
44

,

07/06/2008 20:54:26
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45

Joseph Gibson,

Stevenston 07/06/2008 22:11:23
"46 Champions of Europe '67,Glasgow 07/06/2008 20:54:26"

I'm really not sure what you agree with, but If Scotland got independence, do you really think we'll be independant for long? how long do you think it'll take for greedy politicians to join EU? what would the EU offer scottish government as it has oil reserves? don't forget about rich businessmen. EU is a fraud, its already attacking scottish heritage, YET! we just sit there and let them. I'm telling you, history repeats itself... Like Japan, oneside democratic, the other traditional samuria, democratic side wins with the help of the Americans. This was just before the 20th century btw, seems similar whats happening in Britain today. Its a crime and a shame to be british, scottish, welsh or irish. Don't think for one momment Scotland will stay independant for long... and the Irish, its too late for them. They got themselves into that mess, eventually they will get themselves out of it.
46

ThomasP,

07/06/2008 23:58:35
Joseph Gibson.

I am not exactly Pro-European but even you are scaremongering.

The SNP would only allow Scotland into the European Union if we were granted specail privilages and opt outs of certain treaties.

Scotland has major natural resources such as oil, water and fish that will prove of great use for the European Union but even then we are asking for opt outs on some areas that NO other member has.
47

Nikostratos,

08/06/2008 00:03:35
#4 An Beal Bacht

Yes they may vote to keep the status quo...or in your case against change.........Ooh

#46

Another non Gaelic linguist
48

,

08/06/2008 09:33:10
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49

Joseph Gibson,

Stevenston 08/06/2008 16:27:08
48 ThomasP,


Sorry but the SNP are far from nationalists. "Never trust politicians"


50 NuLabour Scum,

Yer, but just takes someone to come along and say NO before or after we're stuck in the EU. What they gonna do, send an army to invade? seriously, revolution is not far away, and hopefully in the best interests of the British people.
50

dak403,

us 08/06/2008 22:59:18
Here in the US where we are not part of a union yet but they are definately working on it, and they have been for about 30 years. Thats why the powers wont do anything to stop illegal immigrration or seal up the border. Our military has already combined with the canadian military to form US Northcom. Our monetary system is owned by world bankers and thier plan is to collapse our economy so they can bring in the amero. In our country the bad guys are the council on forein relations, headed by the rockefellers. They are probably the same ones at the top of the structure over there. After all the unions are formed they will be controlled by a small group of people at the UN. Headed by who else but the rockefellers and the Rothchilds. The new world order im sure you all have probably heared of it. My advice is to resist it with everything you have.
51

,

10/06/2008 19:58:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
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