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Labour tells Salmond: Go ahead and quit

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Published Date: 08 January 2009
LABOUR plans to call the SNP's bluff over the Scottish budget if Alex Salmond repeats the threat he made last year to resign as First Minister.
Negotiations over the budget look set to go down to the wire, with the SNP losing one potential set of allies yesterday after the Liberal Democrats stormed out of a meeting with John Swinney, the finance secretary. He refused to back their call for
a 2p income tax cut, which would take £800 million out of the budget. This means that, as in 2008, the Nationalists need the backing of the Conservatives and Greens to get their budget through.

In particular, Mr Swinney will probably have to find £100 million to pay for the Greens' demand for free insulation to be provided for households across Scotland.

Faced with uncertainty last year, Mr Salmond announced the day before the final budget vote that he and his government would resign if defeated.

This wrong-footed both Labour and the Liberal Democrats, who feared that such a move would lead to a new election at a time when the SNP was extremely popular and Labour was at rock bottom.

Their abstentions in the final budget vote were seen as a gaffe and they have been derided for it since.

But this year, they have checked parliamentary rules which state that a new election would not have to be called. Instead, the Queen would simply have to appoint a new First Minister based on the recommendation of Alex Fergusson, the Scottish Parliament's Presiding Officer. By convention, his recommendation would be the candidate who got the most votes in the chamber, but not necessarily a majority of votes.

Labour has privately made it clear that it will put its Scottish leader, Iain Gray, forward for First Minister should Mr Salmond resign.

Labour has had discussions with the SNP over the budget and issued a series of demands.

These would be to increase health and transport spending, drop plans for a local income tax, and scrap the £23.5 million Scottish Futures Trust. The list was delivered in the knowledge that it would be rejected.

A senior Labour source told The Scotsman: "It's pretty obvious that we will not be supporting the SNP's budget and we will be sticking to our demands."

But he added: "If Alex Salmond wants to resign, let him. We will be happy to put Iain Gray forward as First Minister."

The budget bill is due to be published on Friday, with voting on it expected later this month and in February.



Page 1 of 1

 
1

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 00:04:26
Watched New Labour Sleaze's financial idiot on Newsnicht.

What a clown.

Vote down the budget if you dare.
2

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:22:38
1 Jimmy Le Pie,08/01/2009 00:04:26
Watched New Labour Sleaze's financial idiot on Newsnicht.
==================================================

Very interesting Jimmy.

Did you see Celebrity Big Brother?

The world demands to know.
3

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 00:24:34
Hey Rufus,

You got a total cost of a £2 billion PPP/PFI bridge yet??

Thought not.

Utter buffoon.
4

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:28:51
Hey Jimmy, did no one tell you PFI is dead?

The Scottish Futures Trust is the way forward.

You need to look forward and not back.

Utter buffoon.
5

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:30:47
Jimmy you can find on here a list of the SNP's proposals for using the Scottish Futures Trust over the next 3 years.

http://nobodyknew.net/
6

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:35:25


"...the Liberal Democrats stormed out of a meeting with John Swinney, the finance secretary. He refused to back their call fora 2p income tax cut....."


Lordy Lordy


Tavish's Leadership must be in more trouble than I thought

7

,

08/01/2009 00:37:14
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8

Edward,

08/01/2009 00:37:44
Labour as ever puting themselves ahead of the countries interest how pathetic!
Supposed to be a consensus parliament, except Labour just see it as there god given right to be in charge
9

,

08/01/2009 00:39:26
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10

,

08/01/2009 00:40:47
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11

,

08/01/2009 00:42:10
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12

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:44:50


Liberals...... really!

£800 MILLION cuts but they won't tell us where?

Brilliant

Go home and prepare your self for paying out your deposit!
13

,

08/01/2009 00:45:14
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14

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:45:31



Andy Gray UNELECTED FIRST MINISTER

hoo ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha haar
15

,

08/01/2009 00:45:41
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16

,

08/01/2009 00:50:21
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17

Edward,

08/01/2009 00:54:36
Iain Gray as First minister is even more laughable than the Libdems financial accumen, which is non existant. Its not Comic Releif Day yet is it?
18

Brian Hill,

08/01/2009 01:20:48
So, an unelected Prime Minister working with an unelected First Minister. What's Labour trying to do, reduce the not so great britain to the level of a banana republic?

The Liberals will get their way re local councils setting LIT, which seems reasonable to me, that will bring them on board, the Tories won't want to strengthen Labour's hand in the UK by handing them the Scottish Parliament too, so they won't back Gray.

Margo isn't going to back Gray against Salmond despite their differences because Margo is Scotland first, personalities second.

The Greens are not going to support a Labour Party which will grow increasingly unpopular with each 50,000 jobs lost. That's going to be a hel*uva lot of unpopularity.

So all in all just more hot air from Labour and its unionist acolytes in what is laughingly known as the 'Scottish' Press.

Finally I'm concerned about the delicate workings of Wardog's mind, too much excitement isn't good for him.

Let's try and keep these posts sensible....Ian Gray for God's sake, you would be better to bring back Wendy.
19

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

08/01/2009 01:25:17
Last years strategy worked like a charm for the SNP with labour looking like clods at the end of it-not that that's particularly difficult to do. Don't expect a repeat of the same strategy this time around, but expect the same result.
20

Billiam Wallace,

08/01/2009 01:34:19
#19 "you would be better to bring back Wendy." I presume you mean for her comedic value, certainly not her political acumen which is nonexistant. When did Labour fall to these depths or were they always this bad and no-one noticed? Makes me long for independence and a new political landscape for Scotland.
21

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

08/01/2009 01:39:10
Out of interest, does anyone know what the parliamentary rules say about what will happen if a budget isn't passed?
22

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 01:56:23
22. It's all a bit gray, the expectation is that the Government revise their plans to get agreement but they'd have every right to call an election too.

The liberals are an even bigger laughing stock under lavish tavish than they were with stephen nichol....... Rumbles 'wlakes out of' every meeting he;s in, the man's got good ideas about fiscal autonomy but is essentially a child....speaking of children, purvis is a rank amateur, every showing on newngight with his pinstripe 'take me serious I knwow what I'm taking about' suit is a treasure.

Purvis masterminded the Liberals superb Glenrothes showing.



23

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

08/01/2009 02:04:03
'It's all a bit gray'- hmm, well quite!
24

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

08/01/2009 02:05:31
#23 I don't know what the rules say, but common sense says that the parliament couldn't possibly function without a budget. If no compromise were possible, there would be no choice but to call another election, it seems to me.
25

subrosa,

08/01/2009 02:32:52
Where is Ian Gray anyway? Is he still in London rehearsing the labour mantras?

Maybe we'll see him on FMQs at noon. I can't wait.
26

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 03:55:35
“Those of us who once thought you a cut above the McLeishes, the McConnels and the Grays are learning a bitter lesson”

Good try, but no cigar.

It is actually “McConnell”.
Perhaps it is indicative of the impact that guy made on Scottish politics that even his own party supporters cannot remember his name.
27

Saul Tyre,

Germany 08/01/2009 06:25:56
Scotland is going through a difficult period and we need a charismatic leader to guide us through 2009 and beyond. Perhaps Iain Gray possesses the Ernest Schackleton qualities required to point us in the right direction. He certainly deserves a shot at the wheel.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha!
28

Angleland Isover,

08/01/2009 06:28:22
If you cant get elected try getting unelected. It worked for mugabe broon.
29

Brahann,

Fife 08/01/2009 06:59:23
Iain Gray?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha!
30

caithness,

08/01/2009 07:22:35
We need Auntie Bella in charge. She'd sort them out. I'm trying not to think about Iain Gray as FM. It'll only put me off my breakfast.
31

tartan army 2222,

08/01/2009 07:37:25
Despite Lbour's bluster they don't want an election because, as they well know, they would be soundly defeated. Three reasons for this - the SNP are doing as good a job as they can within the restrictions of a minority govt, the Labour Party generally are in absolute disarray and, finally, the SNP has councillors all over Scotland who are working for the people of Scotland who are crossing over in droves from the corrupt, complacent Labour Party.
32

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 07:48:20
Iain Gray as FM?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha!
33

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 07:48:56
I hope Gray's bluff is called and we have an election.

Will John McVicar, New Labour Sleaze activist and member of the GHA, recently found out breaking the law, claiming benefits he wasn't entitled to, be standing as a Sleaze candidate??? He fits in well at the trough!

What about a safe seat for David Marshall and his office?

Will Red Wendy stand again??? I thought she reckoned she could earn £200,000+ in the private sector or will she sacrifice that earning power for the sake of the deprived weans and cattle???

Interesting days!
34

,

08/01/2009 07:56:26
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35

Gussie Fink-Nottle,

08/01/2009 08:27:59
With interest rates projected to be 0.25% from the Bank of England this morning and potentially moving to 0%, just think how strong the SFT could be if we were allowed to borrow for capital structure projects?

#35 I'm delighted to learn that it is within your powers to allow the Scottish Government to set up the SFT.
36

,

08/01/2009 08:29:05
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37

Boy Wonder,

08/01/2009 08:41:26
Iain Gray as FM?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha!
38

Hertsman,

UK 08/01/2009 08:49:04
Alex Salmond and the the SNP are always holding Norway up as an example of what Scotland could become if it were indepndent. I have just returned from spending Christmas and New Year with my Daughter who is living in Oslo. I have to ask the question, would Scotland be prepared to pay £6 for the cheapest can of beer, £11 for the cheapest bottle of wine or pay twice the price of a car in the UK? Norway is a highly taxed country, the cost of living is very high with VAT at 25%.
I love to go on holiday to Scotland, please don't make it too expensive for me.
39

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:51:38
44

They also have one of the highest quality of lifestyles and if you measure countries by the price of booze, then may I suggest you toddle off as we are in the grip of a booze epidemic just now.

Thank you.
40

Mr. Lachie Todd,

08/01/2009 08:55:14
According to Holyrood parliamentary rules, IF the First Minister resigns over the Scottish Budget, then the Labour Party will nominate their parliamentary leader Iain Gray as a replacement?

Labour could then form a Scottish Government, probably in coalition with their old partners, the Lib-Dems?

In effect, a change of Scottish Government without an election?

So, what we are talking about is a legalised
coup d'etat?
41

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 08:58:29
#35 "I'm tempted to let the idiots go ahead and set it up, then hang it round their necks forever."

*Let* them? You speak as if you have such a thing in your gift to permit or refuse. I've seen some internet delusions of grandeur in my time, but that's right at the top of the scale.

As for the story - how typical of Labour to lose the democratic election, then try to steal power anyway by cheating. They really have no dignity at all, do they?
42

Alan Reid,

Wellington 08/01/2009 08:59:28
If you want a laugh watch this

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=247&Itemid=97

This one is even better

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=81
43

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 09:05:21
#46 Yes, a legalised coup d'etat is exactly what we're talking about. However, that scenario occurs only if the SNP resign government. What happens if the budget is refused but the SNP stay, unable to spend money and therefore to govern, is a much more interesting question.

If the opposition then brought a vote of no confidence to remove them, as they would surely have to, presumably that WOULD lead to a general election. And the public tend to angrily resent parties who force such things upon them, especially at times like these. I suspect the Unionist parties would take a fearful tanking in any such election (especially given that support is still swinging towards the SNP in all byelections and council elections since 2007), which is why I predict we'll see the budget passed again.
44

Alastair the First,

08/01/2009 09:12:14
Actually I don't find the idea of Ian Gray as First Minister funny in the slightest. Can you imagine the depression that would settle on Scotland if these crooked Labour cretins got their hands on the controls? FFS, there would be rioting in the streets, and I'd be right there leading the uprising.

I don't think Gray would last a week.
45

TWC,

08/01/2009 09:19:08
I wouldn't mind another Holyrood election it would force the opposition parties to talk about the Calman and its failure to truly address Scotlands Powers and Finances.
An election today would be a lanslide to SNP.
Labour will be just as negative this time as last time, but surely even they can make their points without Vomitting over Scotland.
46

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 09:23:59
#51 "As soon as the Scottish Numpty Pantomime moves away from it's ONLY policy plank (2010 referendum) it mires itself in deep shengis."

Yes, I expect that's the reason they keep losing votes and vote share in every poll and election that's taken place in Scotland since 2007.

Oh, wait.
47

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 08/01/2009 09:30:14
A note to all of the above comments, please oh! please read the Scotland Act first before getting your fingers on the keyboard on the subject of who and what would happen in the event of the SNP budget not passing the vote at Holyrood.
48

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 09:40:36
#54 That's not a very helpful post. I'm sure the Scotland Act runs to hundreds of pages of impenetrable legalese. If you've got some point to make, why not just make it, quoting the Act for us if relevant?
49

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 09:46:16
Further to my post above, here is the text of the Scotland Act 1998.

http://tinyurl.com/scotlandact

Good luck finding what happens in the event of a budget not being passed but the government not resigning.
50

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 08/01/2009 09:52:45
Ah well, Alex has had a good run at being First Minister - time to let Iain Gray have a go. And on the up side Alex can marry Sean Connery and they can live happily ever after.
51

Miss H,

08/01/2009 10:15:02
57 The only alterenative would be a Labour/Tory administration. The Lib Dems would not go into coalition with anyone now.

Would that scenario be a disaster for the SNP? Not really, in the run up to a Westminster election. Would it be a disaster for Labour and the Tories? Yes.

Which is why it's not going to happen.
52

Miss H,

08/01/2009 10:19:46
35 smee says 'I'm tempted to let the idiots go ahead and set it up, then hang it round their necks forever.'

Here we have an insight into Smee's mindset - he's tempted to allow the idiots to go ahead. He could stop it of course any time he likes, with one wave of his magic wand. But he'll let them go ahead so that the silly children learn their lesson.

He is, you see, God.
53

SEUMAS,

fearn 08/01/2009 10:29:21
Anyone who would believe anything written by so called journalists like maddox or macdonnell would also believe the moon was made of green cheese, they are very balanced individuals by virtue of having a chip on both shoulders
54

,

08/01/2009 10:31:41
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55

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 10:33:19
The SNP Gov has shown its high competence relative to the buffoons who went before them. But why should the SNP be the ones to implement and be blamed for Gordon Brown's New Labour financial cutbacks in Scotland? The SNP Gov stands to be tarred with the same stick. The worse this recession gets, the more flak they will receive, even though that flak should be aimed at Gordon Brown and London New Labour. New Labour will always seek to divert attacks onto the SNP Scottish Government.

The SNP Gov would be better resigning now over this budget and transfer 'management' (and blame where it rightly rests) of the impending economic collapse in Scotland over to the New Labour dipstick Gray and their FibDum lapdogs. He's daft enough to accept the role gratefully. Let him take it on. Let him implement Gordon Brown's draconian cuts. Let him and his New Labour British Nationalists take the blame for the mess created by London New Labour.

This would then allow the SNP to concentrate on the real work in hand - that is, demonstrating how New Labour and the other British Nationalist parties are destroying Scotland. It would also allow the SNP to prepare for the next General Election; with socio-economic collapse all around and New Labour's mishandling of the economy so blatantly obvious, and unemployment rising ever higher, this will inevitably result in more thinking Scots voting for the only real option open to them - independence for Scotland.

Come on SNP - be tactical, resign and let the blame for this mess rest where it should rest, at New Labour's door. Let the real battle with the British Nationalist failures commence! SNP - resign today !
56

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 11:12:33
#64 JDT: "The country can't take any more of the sleaze ball Liebour Party."

I am afraid it must. There are still some turkeys out there (e.g. in Glenrothes) who will gladly vote for a New Labour Xmas. Like Amin said, there are some Scots who need to feel even more pain - London New Labour can give them that pain.

From a strategic perspective, the SNP Government should resign now and let New Labour and their British Nationalist cohorts preside over the impending carnage.
57

lulach mac gille coemgain,

08/01/2009 11:16:06
Welcome to the Holyrood Tea Party !
58

bluehead,

edinburgh 08/01/2009 11:19:29
it is bad enough to listen to some of the snp proposals,especially what to do about crime, some things they say are beyond belief,but it would be even worse with labour,this goverment act like a herd of goats,poor old Britain,!what a mess it is in,our politicians seem to spend all their time kissing the American and European posteriors,they have stank every thing that was ever decent in this country.!!!!
59

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/01/2009 11:26:12
#63, Darrien.

Your analysis of the situation is spot on, but your solution is wrong.

Only by doing what is in the best interest of Scotland, and its people, will the SNP lead us to Independence.

To submit the people of Scotland to the vagaries of Brown and Westminster would be a dereliction of duty and a breach of the their trust.

Let the NuLabTories do their worst and let the people of Scotland judge.
60

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 11:30:01
If you genuinely think Tavish Scott's leadership is in trouble you are a complete twit.
61

Miss H,

08/01/2009 11:46:04
69 The Lib Dems are in a world of trouble. The most recent poll I saw on Westminster voting intentions had Lib Dems at 7 per cent.

7 per cent. That is in contrast to 15 per cent across the UK.

The Lib Dem vote in Scotland has collapsed.

62

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 12:31:07
#70 Miss H: "The Lib Dem vote in Scotland has collapsed."

This seems to reflect the fact nobody in Scotland is interested in the Lib Dem Federal British Nation idea. Its either independence or the status quo. A Federal British Nation would still be a British Nation which means continued suppression of what is at present an abstract Scottish Nation. So the federal idea means no fundamental change for British or Scottish Nationalist sides.

Lib Dems have tended to split the vote in the past so are basically a 'spoiler' party (wasted vote). Folks are now figuring that out and not before time.

Also reflects the fact nobody understands what the Lib Dems stand for. They are now ignored at the UK level and being marginalised in Scotland. Their MPs and MSPs are mostly career politicians (ex MP researchers and the like) just like the other British Nationalist parties. Few have much industry experience, unlike the SNP which is full of people who have already 'done the business' in the real world.
63

G,

Bridgefoot 08/01/2009 12:36:13
"Watched New Labour Sleaze's financial idiot on Newsnicht.

What a clown."

Have you heard JOhn Swinney!!!! It is obvious that he doesn't even understand what he is talking about...

#71 - What experience do the SNP have?????
Obviously not financial, business or scientific!!!!
64

Nikostratos,,

08/01/2009 12:40:49
#69 frank mcbride

The snp are doing whats in the best interests of the snp and that doesn't coincide with what is in the best interests of all the People of Scotland.

#63 Darien

the snp£££££ have their snouts in the trough they'll not give that up willingly. Oink!Oink!Oink!
65

puskas,

East kilbride 08/01/2009 12:42:46
No 72 GRrrrrrr.

It saddens me. Another education, education, education failure...
66

Nikostratos,,

08/01/2009 12:47:20
#71 Darien

Yes i remember the old days me and Alex trundling around the site with our wheel barrows slogging away all day long in the 'real world'

Do leave it out who in the snp leadership has ever rode the blister end of a shovel ? a hard days work would probably kill most em......a lot of the other politicos too..and no doubt yerslef.
67

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 13:15:01
#72 Bridgefoot: "What experience do the SNP have?????"
#76 Niko: "the blister end of a shovel"

Most certainly the SNP MSP's have a great deal more real world and industry than these New Labour troughers:

Wendy Alexander ex Labour Party Research Officer
Jackie Baillie ex Gorbals Unemployed Workers Centre
Claire Baker ex Research Officer for trade union AMICUS
Richard Baker ex Research Officer Scottish Labour Group
Sarah Boyack ex Planning Officer
Rhona Brankin ex Lecturer
Bill Butler ex Teacher
Malcolm Chisholm ex Teacher
Cathy Craigie ex Parliamentary Assistant to an MP
Margaret Curran ex Lecturer
Helen Eadie ex Full-time trade union official GMB
Patricia Ferguson ex Scottish Labour Party Organiser
George Foulkes ex Councillor and MP
Karen Gillion ex Personal Ass. to Helen Liddell MP
Marlyn Glen ex Teacher
Trish Godman ex social worker
Charlie Gordon ex official in Union of Railwaymen/RMT

NOT ONE FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR !

Even Governor General Murphy, whose only 'job' has been President of the National Union of Students! And the Newlabour Westminster Cabinet is the same - full of commercial nobodys.

That's just A-G of New Lab MSP's. Go deeper if you wish. For real careers look at Alex Salmond, Jim Mather, Stewart Stevenson etc etc.

Put your red and blue British Nationalist rosettes in the bin, you anti-Scottish eejits.
68

puskas,

East kilbride 08/01/2009 13:17:15
No73.....................

David Marshall, Foulkes etc. etc. etc.

PPI. PPP .. BANKRUPTING THE COUNTRY..

Of course these examples are for the betterment of my country.
69

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/01/2009 13:31:10
#73, Niko.

So, a fairer Local Taxation, based on the ability to pay, is not in the interest of the people of Scotland?

Free education is not in the interest of the people of Scotland?

Access to local A&E units is not in the interest of the people of Scotland?

More investment in infrastructure is not in the interest of the people of Scotland?

Refusal to use the usurous PFI/PPP is not in the interest of the people of Scotland?

Niko, please tell us which policies you are referring to.
70

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 13:43:13

Oink!Oink!Oink!

Brillaint Niko, I can't wait until labour unveil their new Local Taxation System based on House Prices and collected by private firms under a PPP Contract.

This will maximise profit by targeting those that don't pay: the poor, elderly and infirm which most SNP voters are anyway ha ha ha ha ha

The Nastyionalists are no better than Al Quaeda.

Salmond is Scotland's Bin laden


71

Hugh Roscombe,

08/01/2009 13:43:19
Iain Gray as FM? He has as much charisma as a Rubber Bride™
72

,

08/01/2009 14:16:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
73

A Scott,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 14:24:05
#81...Hugh Roscombe. Iain Gray "As much charisma as a rubber bride"
How dare you sir . I well remember one rather hot night in Hamburg when I was a lad in the Merchant Marine. Er no perhaps not.
74

notanactivist,

08/01/2009 14:26:07
#40 Whenis Newsnight Scotland not a farce, it's the most pointless piece of television since snooker was broadcast in black and white.
75

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 14:43:23
#84 I disagree. This week's episodes, and last night's in particular, do a continuing vital job of pointing out the vacant, hollow uselessness of the opposition. Time and time again they were asked directly to suggest funded alternatives to the SNP's budget proposals, and time and time again they fudged and dodged and mumbled and fumbled. I attribute the SNP's continued increase in popularity with the opposition being constantly exposed on national TV as clueless numpties.
76

Mikey,

08/01/2009 14:50:44
Rufus T Firely, the laird of Freedonia! Union is Best, his 'personal friend! Someone said they shared a brain. I think they share a failed love affair!

Let's face it, I can understand one brain dead moron, but two????

"Screaming skull" Murphy for FM?????

hoo ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha haar
77

ricky40,

08/01/2009 16:53:55
86 Mikey

I take it you're relatively new on this site and will inform you that you are half-right!! If you hang around long enough you will see what I mean.
78

Alan Reid,

Wellington 08/01/2009 17:07:11
Grahamski'"Salmond is Scotland's Bin laden"
You are a total pr!ck.
79

Florence,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 17:11:46
No wonder "Labour tells Salmond to quit". Wouldn't they just love that. Another sparkling performance by our First Minister at FMQs today. Knocked them all into a cocked hat as usual. And as for Tavish!! What a fiasco his performance. Needs to give some adviser a bit of a slap, I think, for dropping him in it right up to his ears.
80

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 17:21:39
#80 Grahamski: "Salmond is Scotland's Bin laden"

You have to be one sick rabid extreme British Nationalist fundamentalist rascist to say that. You are calling a Scotsman a terrorist simply because he, like many of his country folk, desire peaceful and democtratic self determination for their nation -Scotland?

Perfidious Albion's extreme arm is exposed; we know that Gordon Brownshirt and probably MI5 too are life members of this arm. You are in fine company. But if anyone is guilty of terrorism it is Perfidious albion/British Nationalists who have a long history of subversion and scheming in Scotland.

Your rascist perspective is explained by the fact that British Nationalists view Scottish independence as a 'threat' to their notion of a nation called UKofGB&NI. And in that sense you do, in fact, view the SNP as nothing less than terrorists and it is no idle boast on your part. The same attitude can be seen in the scowls of British Nationalist MP's and MSP's when they debate with SNP elected members. It is nothing short of hatred for the honourable ideal which is an independent Scotland.
81

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 17:52:04
#93 PL: "labour benches...a bunch of clueless morons"

Precisely. But what can we expect from people who for most of their 'career' have only 'worked' for the New Labour Party machine in one form or another.

Wendy Alexander ex Labour Party Research Officer
Jackie Baillie ex Gorbals Unemployed Workers Centre
Claire Baker ex Research Officer for trade union AMICUS
Richard Baker ex Research Officer Scottish Labour Group
Sarah Boyack ex Planning Officer
Rhona Brankin ex Lecturer
Bill Butler ex Teacher
Malcolm Chisholm ex Teacher
Cathy Craigie ex Parliamentary Assistant to an MP
Margaret Curran ex Lecturer
Helen Eadie ex Full-time trade union official GMB
Patricia Ferguson ex Scottish Labour Party Organiser
George Foulkes ex Councillor and MP
Karen Gillion ex Personal Ass. to Helen Liddell MP
Marlyn Glen ex Teacher
Trish Godman ex social worker
Charlie Gordon ex official in Union of Railwaymen/RMT

COMMON THEME - NO BUSINESS/INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE !
82

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 18:00:49
And no different in the Westminster cabinet. Again nobody has any real previous commercial or industrial experience. Is it any surprise the economy is bust.

Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP Member, Scottish Executive Labour Party 1977-83/(spin doctor)
Rt Hon Alistair Darling MP ex Councillor
Rt Hon David Miliband MP ex Research Fellow
Rt Hon Jack Straw MP Councillor/Barrister
Rt Hon Jacqui Smith MP Teacher
Rt Hon Alan Johnson MP Full Time Officer of Union of Communication Workers
Rt Hon Lord Mandelson Councillor, then MP
Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP Councillor/Research Officer Association of Scientific, Tech and Mgmt
Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP Parliamentary Researcher / Speechwriter for Gordon Brown MP
Rt Hon John Hutton MP Lecturer in Law at Newcastle Poly
Rt Hon Harriet Harman QC MP Legal Officer for Liberty
Rt Hon Hazel Blears MP solicitor and a North West Councillor
Rt Hon Geoff Hoon MP lecturer in law at Leeds University
Rt Hon Ed Balls MP “An active member of the TGWU”
Rt Hon Edward Miliband MP special adviser to the Chancellor of the Exchequer
Rt Hon James Purnell MP researcher to Rt. Hon. Tony Blair MP
Rt Hon Shaun Woodward MP working for Esther Rantzen as a researcher on That's Life
Rt Hon Baroness Royall of Blaisdon special adviser to Neil Kinnock
Rt Hon Andy Burnham MP researcher for Tessa Jowell MP
Rt Hon John Denham MP worked for Christian Aid, Oxfam and other agencies
Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP Economic Researcher for late John Smith MP
Rt Hon Paul Murphy MP lecturer in Government and History at Ebbw Vale College
Rt Hon Jim Murphy MP President of National Union of Students (also has a Hornby train set)

What a bunch of losers the public are - for voting in this pile of drivel.
83

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 18:28:21
Maybe, just maybe the Scottish people won't be too pleased if the Queen appoints a Labour first minister who lost the last election!
84

SNP hypocrisy,

08/01/2009 18:29:27
Yes SNP and their fat pretentious leader - PLEASE QUIT! It's your democratic duty to quit anyway since you have absolutely no legitimacy to call yourselves a 'government' (mostly since you weren't elected to anything called a government when you stood for election), but also because you are child-like and have only 47 MSP's out of 129. It is high-time for a united opposition to put the needs of Scotland first and work together to bring down smug Salmond and his ridiculous 'government'.
85

SNP hypocrisy,

08/01/2009 18:30:07
98. What planet are you on?
86

SNP hypocrisy,

08/01/2009 18:33:22
10. So when was Salmond an 'elected' First Minister. He only took 47 seats. His 'government' is an affront to democracy. In a sane nation, the other parties would have gone into coalition immediately in order to represent the electoral majority. A sharing of power wouldn't be a bad thing after a year of the SNP's smug & ignorant mismanagement of Scottish affairs.
87

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 18:41:59
#92

The 'nationalist = racist' smear has been going on since before the second world war when the Brit parties tried to link the early version of the SNP with Hitler. It was bilge then, is bilge now. The truth is of course that Hitler was an imperialist, just like Britain.

Hitler was also of course a religious nutcase, and a mass murderer but he is on record as being inspired by the British Empire in his plans for world domination.

It is usually very pro British parties who in the modern era tend towards xenophobia. The reason is that they think Britain is BETTER than any other country. While we Scots want EQUALITY with other nations. We are much closer in our nationalism to the various countries who freed themselves from Britain but don't expect the great British media to ever make that logical connection.

The reason Labour (occasionally) and the right wing tabloids (often) make such deliberately false accusations is obvious. They think (and hope) that the general public are knuckle dragging morons but they're not and that's why this charge has never stuck with anyone. It's obvious what the SNP stand for: normal powers for our own country to the benefit of everyone in it.

However expect the same lazy gibes right up till independence along with the stuff about being too poor/weak/thick for independence it's the only way they can justify a unequal union where we are outvoted 10-1, through blatant, ignorant lies.
88

subrosa,

08/01/2009 18:44:54
# 99

Oh dear, was your wine corked tonight? Or perhaps your beer was flat. Either way, contributing such drivel, resorting to personal insult, doesn't do anything for the unionist case.

I would much rather read as to how you think the unionists could make Scotland so much better. It can be done - who is going to do it?
89

JoeMiddleton,

edinburgh 08/01/2009 18:45:44
100. Earth, but I don't expect you to recognise it you deluded eejit. Labour LOST the election, the people don't want them to rule Scotland. The SNP WON the election. By one seat, but they still WON that is why they are in Government. I'd say wake up but there is just no point...
90

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 19:16:07
#97 1,2: "the odious Liddel"

Aye, I dare say there is more to come out from her activities. She wasn't 'rewarded' with the Australia post for nothing. High Commissioner Helen Liddell - if the Aussies only knew. More info on Maxwell's dodgy New Labour links from:
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=11231

#92 Joe: "It is usually very pro British parties who in the modern era tend towards xenophobia. The reason is that they think Britain is BETTER than any other country. While we Scots want EQUALITY with other nations."

Clarification appreciated. British Nationalists are quite fundamentally opposed to a Scottish state and those like Brownshirt, will 'do anything' they can to put a spanner in the works.
91

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 19:25:56
Oh well, more on Ms Liddell's ex boss and some other New Labour chickens coming home to roost:

long before New Labour, Maxwell was Labour’s businessman. Indeed the whole New Labour operation was about breaking the party’s links with organised workers and bringing in more people like Maxwell. Among Maxwell’s Labour cronies were Geoffrey Robinson – Tony Blair’s former paymaster general and the man who provided Peter Mandelson with an interest free mortgage.

Robinson was a director of one of Maxwell’s companies. Another crony was Peter Jay, a former ambassador and son-in-law of former Labour prime minster Jim Callaghan. In 1991, when he was a Mirror journalist, New Labour spin doctor Alastair Campbell was so attached to Maxwell that he thumped Guardian journalist Michael White for making a quip about “Captain Bob, Bob, Bob” after Maxwell drowned falling from his yacht.

Maxwell did sterling service for the Labour Party. He used his ownership of the Daily Mirror, to run a smear campaign against Arthur Scargill, leader of the National Union of Mineworkers, alleging he was corrupt.
Scargill and the socialist values he represented were seen as a barrier to the “modernisation” of the Labour Party.

The vile attacks, which lasted for the best part of a year, were baseless, yet they did terrible damage. Another set of Maxwell’s friends who get off far too lightly are those in the boardrooms of the City of London.

These people had known for decades that Maxwell was a crook, but they cared little so long as they got a percentage of the ill gotten gains. In 1971 a Department of Trade and Industry report said plainly, “Robert Maxwell is not in our opinion a person who can be relied on to exercise proper stewardship of a public company.”

When the official report into Maxwell’s final fraud was published – a decade after the events – it listed numerous organisations. These included:

Goldman Sachs, the investment bank, which, said the report, bore “substantial re
92

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 19:27:04
Goldman Sachs, the investment bank, which, said the report, bore “substantial responsibility” for letting Robert Maxwell get away with his manoeuvres. The bank made £23 million profit from its Maxwell dealings. It was fined £160,000.
Samuel Montagu & Co, now part of HSBC bank, masterminded the initial stock market launch of Maxwell’s MGN corporation. The report says it included “inaccurate and misleading” details in the share prospectus.
Coopers & Lybrand Deloitte accountants “failed to report abuses” to pension fund trustees.
Labour peer Lord Donaghue, a Maxwell director, ought to have been able to find out what was going on. But he never asked the obvious questions.
City firms Lehman Brothers, Nikko, Capel Cure Myers, Morgan Grenfell and NatWest Investment Management were all found guilty of breaches of rules.

It is precisely firms like these that New Labour wants us to trust with our pensions, our housing estates and welfare services. Perhaps it is impossible to satirise or make a drama out of something so utterly crass.

93

Otis Boone,

Sacramento 08/01/2009 19:56:05
Between you guys and Canada's constitutional crisis, plus our electing of Obama, 2009 is going to be a very interesting year politically.


Here's to all the suspense and drama in the world's greatest blood sport - politics.
94

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 20:17:36
#109 Otis: "a very interesting year politically"

I'll drink to that.
95

Andrew1987,

Paris 08/01/2009 20:18:46
I am having a bit of trouble understanding the consequences of the budget failing to meet a majority approval.

I am slightly abashed by the copious amounts of one-sided opinion coming from left, right and centre so I would appreciate it if someone could simply clear the mists for me:

- What would happen if the budget was not approved and the SNP quit?

- What would happen if the budget was not approved yet the SNP did not quit?

- What would happen if Alex Salmond quit as First Minister?

and...

- What would that therefore mean for the SNP?

All I am asking for here is an answer which is as factual as possible. Please do not give me a biased Unionist or Nationalist personal opinion propagating what one thinks should and should not happen...
96

luke_a,

Nottingham 08/01/2009 20:40:31
A Scottish friend told me about this message board & I had to see it to believe it!
The (vast) majority of the posters are complete looners! Especially that 'Darien' character.

I thought Scotland was a country of intellegence, integrity & rational thought. I hope I'm not wrong in thinking this. But I may well be as none of those attributes are present here are they?
97

luke_a,

Nottingham 08/01/2009 21:13:30
Did I offend you bro? I didn't mean to!
98

luke_a,

Nottingham 08/01/2009 22:12:10
Haha! You're right there! Their all fashion students so we keep busy! Also it makes up for the chavie gun crime!

A much nicer place than my native Bristol thats for sure. Worst accent known to man (I've managed to lose it!).

Hey, I'm heading up to Glasgow soon. Where's the best place for a night out?
99

Andrew1987,

Paris 08/01/2009 22:16:37
@ 112 - Thank you for that :-)

@ 113 - I have come to learn that The Scotsman website is best avoided if you want to have a balanced and fair exchange of opinion on the independence question.
I often find myself cringing with absolute embarrassment at the standards of what people - both Unionist and Nationalist - write on this site.
100

Gtj,

08/01/2009 23:26:18
What I don't understand is how Jimmy managed to beat the resident house poster.
101

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 08/01/2009 23:36:48
Ian Gray' FIRST MINSTER

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha haha ha
102

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 09/01/2009 00:05:26
#112 "If the budget is voted down, then the SNP need to quit as that is a vote of no confidence in their administration, effectively.

That leaves the opposition in the position of needing to form a Government. They don't need to go to the polls, they just need to get enough votes in the Parliament to appoint a new First Minister. They then need to present a new budget."

That may be the theoretical situation, but can you see it happening? A government kicked out and replaced without an election? They'd have to have an election or there'd be riots, and if there was an election they'd get destroyed. My money's still on the budget passing.
103

Darien,

Panama 09/01/2009 00:52:39
As I said in #63, better to let the New Labour mugs take on government of Scotland for the next couple of years, with their crappy budget and the economy only heading one way - down. Everyone blames the government, any government. No point in the SNP taking the blame for London New Labour's mess. Let them get on with it. Best chance of independence is at the next General Election when the London Tories (aka the English National Party) need to do a deal. Bring it on.
104

jockdoonunder,

Sydney, OZ 09/01/2009 01:38:22
#48 Alan Reid. Many thanks for the laugh. It almost makes one feel sorry for Engerland. Why don't we Scots help them to get an English Devolved Government? It might stop them whinging!! It would also help solve Scotland's current situation.
Slainthe
105

SNP hypocrisy,

09/01/2009 03:43:04
102. So how do you explain the fact that the SNP leader between the wars was locked up in Barlinnie for having secret meetings with the Nazis? I suppose it's just all bilge and made up lies in your mind?

Actually the reality is that it's what you are saying is bilge, snce you are denying known, proven and established facts about the very real links that the SNP had to the Nazi's and their plans to set up a provisional government after the Nazi invasion.

Your then SNP leader was put in Barlinnie, and likewise the current SNP leader should be in a secure place - but one with padded walls. Maybe in there they can help him with his Napoleon complex.
106

SNP hypocrisy,

09/01/2009 03:47:39
108. You are an idiot. Once again the SNP were never elected to anything called the Scottish government. Their use of the title having neither a mandate to govern or having been elected to such a body is an affront to democracy. Good riddance to Salmond if he resigns, the law should be changed to prevent such an affront ever happening again. It's an outrage, but what is most outrageous is the attitude of the smug pretentious man who imagines himself the government.
107

,

09/01/2009 23:31:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
108

Alan Reid,

NZ 14/01/2009 09:45:41
SNP hypocrisy, = A first rate t w a t!

 

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