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Northern Ireland: Peace process still in the balance



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Published Date: 01 September 2008
The IRA outlasted generations. More than a decade into the peace process is it still a force, asks Stephen McGinty
WHILE alive, Brian Keenan had callously brought forward the funerals of dozens of men by bullet or bomb. As a member of the Army Council of the Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA), he had planned "spectaculars" and pushed for the Kingsmill massa
cre in which ten Protestants were killed in a machine gun attack in January, 1976. Yet by the time of his own funeral, in May, Keenan was hailed as a vital architect of the Northern Ireland peace process.

In many ways, the funeral in Belfast was as much for the organisation he helped lead as for the man himself, and it illustrated that times had changed. While the black beret and dark leather gloves rested on the coffin lid, there were no men in black balaclavas firing handguns above a grave. Mourners favoured white shirts and black ties over army fatigues and included Martin McGuinness, the Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and a former comrade-in-arms.

Today, the Independent Monitoring Commission is expected to make a special report to the British and Irish governments on the current status of the Provisional IRA and to conclude, once again, that it is no longer a danger to the state. It is, however, unlikely to state that the seven-strong Army Council had been disbanded and it remains to be seen if this is enough to persuade the DUP to agree to the devolution to the Northern Ireland Assembly of Policing and Justice.

As Jeffrey Donaldson, of the DUP, said: "It remains our position that the Army Council must leave the stage and that the IRA should no longer function in any respect." However, Mr McGuinness said last month: "The IRA have clearly gone off the stage since 2005, but attempts are still made by some people to drag them back on, and I think that's silly."

It is now more than three years since the Army Council announced an end to its armed campaign and stated that it would work using "purely political and democratic programmes through exclusively peaceful means" and ordered that IRA "volunteers must not engage in any other activities whatsoever". This followed the final decommissioning of its weaponry, under the supervision of the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning (IICD), and said to include the destruction of 1,000 rifles, three tonnes of Semtex, 20-30 heavy machine guns, seven surface-to-air missiles, seven flame throwers, 1,200 detonators, 20 rocket-propelled grenade launchers, 100 handguns and more than 100 grenades.

So does the Provisional IRA no longer exist? The answer is complicated. The fact that the Army Council remains in operation indicates that there remain elements to control. The Army Council will not disband. However, members who die or resign are not being replaced, but it will still take years before it withers and dies.

Peter Sheridan, Assistant Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, said he believed that vestiges of the IRA will be around for years. Across the border in the Irish Republic a senior intelligence source in the Garda recently said that the IRA had continued to recruit and that it still held weapons.

However, Adam Ingram, a former minister in the Northern Ireland office is optimistic. He said: "I would take the assurances that have been given both by the independent commission and by the government that the military activities of the PIRA have ceased. I saw enough during my time seven years ago to convince me that Sinn Fein were determined to put the gun behind them and use a democratic process. There is a worry from those dissident factions who still think that they can defeat the British government by terrorist means and achieve a united Ireland. They are a minority but remain dangerous."

These include organisations such as the Continuity IRA, the INLA, the Real IRA and more recent splinter groups like Oglaigh na hEireann or Saoirse na hEireann.

"No. The IRA is not going to go away," said Ed Moloney, the author of The Secret History of the IRA, who believes that Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein derive too much political power from the threat of renewed IRA violence to give it up completely. "The security forces, MI5 may go along with the lie for political expediency but ordinary people in Northern Ireland will know they will not go away." He also said that even if the IMO said today that the Army Council had disbanded, it would not be the case as the IRA retains an investment portfolio, estimated to be worth £200 million, which requires management.

In 2002, the House of Commons Northern Ireland affairs committee estimated that the IRA's annual running costs were £2.3 million but that through front companies and offshore accounts it earned £9 million. The IRA has invested heavily in bars, clubs, taxi-firms, shops and hotels and, according to John Horan, an expert on money-laundering and a former member of the PSNI, the organisation now operates bureau de changes in France and Britain. In the past few years IRA funds worth £40 million have been seized by the Garda's Criminal Asset Bureau and the UK's Serious Organised Crime Agency.

So are they now a criminal gang rather than a paramilitary force? What is the difference when people like Paul Quinn still die by their hands? Mr Quinn was said to have clashed physically and verbally with relatives of local IRA figures. He was lured to a farm in Co Monaghan where he was greeted by men in boilersuits, surgical gloves and armed with iron bars and nail-studded clubs. They broke almost every bone in his body then left him to die. The official government report into his death claimed that he was killed over a criminal dispute and that while some of his killers had associations with the IRA, the murder was contrary to the instructions of the organisation. Many doubt this.

Anthony McIntyre, a former IRA commander who served 18 years for murder, believes that while both the IRA and the Army Council are on their death beds, damage can still be done. He said: "I don't believe Ireland has seen its last IRA murder."

For some republicans the war for united Ireland goes on

The Continuity Irish Republican Army

The CIRA is an republican paramilitary organisation that emerged from a split in the Provisional IRA in 1986 whose supporters regard it as the national army of a 32-county Irish Republic. The CIRA continues to oppose the Belfast Agreement and, unlike the Provisional IRA the CIRA has failed to announce a ceasefire or agreed to participate in weapons decommissioning – nor is there any evidence that it will. In a recent report by the Independent Monitoring Commission the CIRA was labelled "active, dangerous and committed and … capable of a greater level of violent and other crime."

The Real IRA

The RIRA was formed in 1997 following a split in the Provisional Irish Republican Army. The organisation has been responsible for a number of bombings in Northern Ireland and England, including the 1998 Omagh bombing, which killed 29 people. The IMC report of May 2008 states that there are at least two factions within the RIRA. Furthermore, the RIRA was said to be active and dangerous. During the period covered by the report, it had tried to expand its capacity, and remained a threat that was "capable of extreme violence". Despite this, the IMC said that there is reason to believe that some members realise the futility of violent action.

The Irish National Liberation Army

The INLA is an Irish Republican, left-wing paramilitary organisation which was formed in 1974 and was influential in the late 1970s and early 1980s and is now one of a number of small armed republican groups. In December 1997, three members of the INLA imprisoned in Long Kesh assassinated Loyalist Volunteer Force leader Billy Wright. The INLA declared a ceasefire on 22 August, 1998 and went on to accept the massive vote in favour of the Good Friday Agreement – an arrangement it had opposed during the 1998 referendum – by the people of Ireland. Although the INLA does not support the Good Friday Agreement, it does not call for a return to armed struggle on behalf of republicans either.







The full article contains 1407 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 31 August 2008 10:19 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

donald,

glasgow 01/09/2008 07:25:50
John Reid, former Lbour Unionist Minster for Northern Ireland: now representing the Forces of the Crown at Parkheas.
2

bluehead,

edinburgh 01/09/2008 08:53:00
I never thought there would be real peace there from the start,
Blair only hurried the whole process through to make himself look good,,
they'll still be looking for a proper peace in the next century,pity we will not be around to see it.!!
3

stracathro,

01/09/2008 09:23:12
i hope they will find peace but think that you're right and it may kick off again by a minority - hopefully there will be enough support to put an end to violence.

with independence drawing near in scotland - how, if at all, will this affect the ni situation?
4

The Spook in Leith,

01/09/2008 11:26:06
#3

"with independence drawing near in scotland - how, if at all, will this affect the ni situation?"

Good question but i would not let a few silly backward looking Orange men threaten Scottish independence because of some stupid battle that happened centuries ago.


5

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 13:36:43
no4

If ever there was an excuse not to have independence, then your bigotry would be it. Why are you talking about Orangemen, when this story is clearly about terrorism and ethnic cleansing murder gangs.

Why not speak with the Kingsmill victims family and see if they care about Scottish independence.

Show some respect you moron.
6

davesmith1,

01/09/2008 13:49:58
Northern Ireland? Will Scotland ever have peace with that fat bufoon Neil Lennon tramping about singing his sectarian ditties?
7

Georgina Wishart,

01/09/2008 13:51:58
"Ed Moloney, the author of The Secret History of the IRA, who believes that Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein derive too much political power from the threat of renewed IRA violence to give it up completely"
So if Ed Moloney can see it, every man, woman and child in Ulster and elsewhere can see it (and know it to be true) how come the British Govt stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that Tony Bliar pushed through a half hearted "treaty" for completely and utterly selfish reasons?
For spook in Leith #4 "Good question but i would not let a few silly backward looking Orange men threaten Scottish independence because of some stupid battle that happened centuries ago" Whilst there are people like you out there, using this type of disrespectful and retarded argument, there wont ever be independence. You cant even let a serious subject like this go without juvenile stupid remarks? As #5 has said, if you have the capability, try and show a modicum of respect. The linking of the phrovo murder gnags and Scottish independence is sinister to say the least.
8

davesmith1,

01/09/2008 13:57:22
#4. Safe in your bolt hole in Leith it's ok for you to talk about 'silly Orangemen'. You should ask the good people of NI about the even sillier battles that have raged there in more recent years. And for what? Was getting Gerry and Martin into the Commons really worth 3,000+ murders?
Ask these same people and they'll tell you that this evil is still in situ there.
9

Rod Lamon,

Crawely 01/09/2008 14:09:14
4#
a story about a defeated murdering "army" and you see fit to mention orangemen???
10

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 14:20:42
A story about murderers and evil, yet Leith loony talks about Orangemen and Scottish Independence.

Scottish Nazi Party supporter no doubt!
11

educator,

THE REAL WORLD 01/09/2008 14:21:45
The IRA are not freedom fighters, lets get back to basics here, freedom fighter would be trying to repel an occuping force from a foreign land and would be protecting their own community.. but,,,,

1. The first inhabitants of ireland were hunters from what is now known as the British mainland

2. The British army were in Northern Ireland at the bequest of the republican people, after they tried to start a civil war in 1969 with riots in Belfast and Londonderry, But then ran crying to the British Government after the IRA ran away and left their communities to suffer the wrath of the loyalist people.

3. The murderous IRA were responsible for more murders in Northern Ireland than all Btritish forces and Loyalist combined, They also killed more Roman catholics than any other group, Quite simply the IRA were a murderous gang, who terrorised their own community and anyone who disagreed with their minority aims.

4. An independant Scotland ? when do you think this will ever happen and to compare this with the NI situation is ridiculous
12

Rod Lamon,

Crawely 01/09/2008 14:25:51
11

sssh the truth will hurt
13

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 14:33:58
Spook in Leith

Something like the article below may well bring you back to reality and think about the people involved, instead of showing your crassness again.


Robert McCartney was stabbed in the heart, an eye gouged out – an anatomy of the murder that united Roman Catholics against the IRA. Sinn Fein/IRA Criminals jump on his head.

Read the facts about the so call 'Defenders' of Roman Catholics. Read how instead they form ghetto's and terrorise anyone who gets in their way.

Before Robert McCartney bumped into his old friend Brendan Devine on the afternoon of Sunday, January 30, his only plans for the day were to attend the birthday party of a friend later in the evening.

But instead, the affable father-of-two arranged to meet Brendan for a drink before the party — a decision which was to cost him his life.

It was at 9.45pm that Robert, 33, and Brendan, 31, walked into Magennis's bar near Belfast's High Court, a pub popular with lawyers during the week, but mostly used by men from the nationalist Markets area of the city at weekends.

Robert, born and bred in the Catholic Short Strand area, would have known virtually every person in the pub when he walked in — including up to 20 IRA men who had just returned, from the Bloody Sunday commemoration in Derry. In turn, the pub regulars knew Robert as a law abiding citizen who was devoted to his two children, Conlead, four, and Brandon, two, and who was looking forward to his wedding later this year to his partner Bridgeen O'Hagans.

He worked as a fork-lift truck driver at an animal feed company and sometimes worked part-time as a doorman to save tor the wedding. Although he was a Sinn Fein voter, he had no paramilitary connections.

What Robert may not have known was that there was bad blood going back several years between Brendan, who ran a cafe in north Belfast, and some of the IRA men drinking at the bar.

Exactly what preceded the brutal attack on the two men is fiercely contested —

14

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 14:34:54
Robert's family insist the IRA men turned on Brendan because of the grudge they .held against him, while the Provos have claimed that Robert or Brendan made a : crude sexual gesture at some women in "the bar — an allegation dismissed by Robert's family as a cynical smear.

One report suggested that Brendan had offered to buy the woman and her friends a drink to apologise, to which the most senior IRA man replied: 'Do you know who I am?'

22-00hrs, The row breaks out. Robert tries to calm the Provos down, but to no avail.

22-10hrs, Several of the IRA men go into the bar's kitchen, and emerge with knives.

22-15hrs, The most senior of the IRA men, understood to be the ‘officer commanding' of the local IRA ‘Belfast Brigade', looks to his lieutenant and draws his index finger across his throat. His right-hand man, said to have a history of extreme violence, wastes no time in" grabbing - Brendan from behind, smashing a bottle over his head and slitting his throat. Brendan manages to twist his body and the knife misses his vital veins and arteries. Seventy-two people in the pub witness the attack.

22-17hrs, Robert tries to get I his friend outside to safety, but the two men are followed out of the pub and into May Street by the IRA men. Brendan urges his friend to run, but Robert will not leave him.

The IRA gang, carrying metal bars and at least one gun, chase the two men around the corner into Cromac Street and Beat them to the ground. One of them plunges a knife into Robert's chest, severing an artery to his heart. Brendan is attacked again with a knife, and his torso is cut in a line from his breast to his navel.

22-20hrs, Still the gang are not finished. One after another they jump with both feet on Robert's head, causing him to lose an eye. Police believe some of the younger IRA members were being 'blooded' in their first murder. In previous killings by paramilitary gangs, each man present has been made to take an active part in the killing in order
15

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 14:36:01
22-25hrs, The gang members leave their victims for dead, and go back into the bar to begin a cold-blooded clean-up operation.

The doors are locked and all 72 witnesses, many of whom had known Robert since childhood, are ordered to do nothing; not to ring for an ambulance, not to talk to anyone about what they had seen and, of course, never to talk to the police about it.

They hardly need to be told what the consequences will be if they do. One man tells them: 'Nobody saw anything. This is IRA business.' The gang find the bar's internal and external CCTV equipment and destroy it, together with any recordings of the murder, then search the surrounding streets for CCTV cameras and destroy them as well. They then wash and wipe down the floor and every surface of the bar that they might have touched and clean the pavement to wash away their bloody footprints.

22-50hrs, The IRA members I leave the bar and return to their homes to destroy their blood-soaked clothes and shoes. Meanwhile, Robert and Brendan lie bleeding on the pavement, both still alive.

22-58hrs, Police in a patrol Mi car spot the men lying 20 yards from the pub and call for ambulances. Other officers are called to the scene and evacuate the pub, taking the names of witnesses and sealing off the crime scene.

JANUARY 31

ROBERT dies in hospital, his sisters by his side as he suc­cumbs to his injuries. His mother Catherine, on holiday in Spain, is told of his death by phone. Amazingly. Brendan survives. Friends of the family who were in the pub contact the McCartneys to offer their sympathies. Most claim to have been in the toilet at the crucial moment, leading to it being christened The Tardis' by cynical observers.

As the police began their investigation on January 31, it seemed that the well-practised IRA machinery of intimidating and terrorising the public into holding their tongues would once again thwart the inquiry.

Later that day, as the police conducted searches of suspects' ho
16

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 14:36:34
homes, they were attacked tay stone-throwing youths, who had been ordered to cause disruption by the IRA, and Alex Maskey, former Sinn Fein Mayor of Belfast, launched into a familiar accusation of police heavy-handedness in the way the searches had been carried out.

But on February 4, Northern Ireland witnessed something 1 which had not been seen since the start of the troubles: an open and public show of revulsion at the IRA by the very republican sympathisers who had always previously protected them.

Robert McCartney's five sisters organised a candlelit street vigil to show their defiance, and 600 of their nationalist neighbours turned out to support them.

In the past, anyone failing to abide by the unwritten code of silence could-have expected a ruthless punishment in return.

This time, however, it became clear that the McCartney sisters had tapped into what was already a growing sense of disgust among long-time republican supporters at the thuggish activities of the IRA since they supposedly laid down their weapons.

Until then, republican sympathis­ers had refused to speak out against punishment beatings, robberies (including the £26.5 million Northern Bank raid) and even, sex attacks, but by taking their campaign onto the streets, the sisters gave thousands of others the courage to stand up and say: 'Enough is enough.'

Anti-IRA graffiti began to appear on walls in tlie republican strong­holds, such as 'PIRA Provisional IRA scum out', and local shop­keepers put up Police Service of Northern Ireland posters appealing for information — another significant act of defiance.

Sinn Fein and the IRA were Clearly rattled, fearing that their support in traditional strongholds was about to melt away.

Robert's funeral on February 8 th 2005 was attended by more than 1,000 mourners — equivalent to one-third of the Catholic population of Short Strand, who are separated by a 10ft high ‘peace wall' from the 60,000 Protestants who surround them.

Embolde
17

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 14:48:26
How many different factions do there terrorists have?The truth is they will always be murdering scum Even after Eire got independance there was a horrible civil war between their own kind No British involved but Republicans murdering Republicans After they sorted out that little mess they had various attempts to stir it in the North till eventually all hell broke loose in 1969 The bottom line is there will always be murderous Republicans in Ireland
18

Highland Mighty©,

01/09/2008 14:54:10
4. Indeed! What type of person gets all angry and bitter over events that happened centuries ago?
19

london calling,

01/09/2008 15:21:39
IRA are no more than a taliban mafia
1.Drug runners
2.Extortionists
3.Prostitution
4.Racketeers
5.protection
6.Murderers
And most certainly not freedom fighters...
20

davesmith1,

01/09/2008 15:21:54
#18. Exactly. It's a privilege to live in this modern day Union. It's just a shame that these neo rebublicans would like to take us back hundreds of years eh?
21

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 15:24:01
Could Highland Mighty remind us all when Bannockburn was You know that battle that the Jocks in frocks are always singing about
22

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 15:34:27
18

Good point!

What's all that Bannockburn nonsense and William Wallace hero worship about? Surely it's time to move on and forget the past?

No?
23

educator,

01/09/2008 15:56:14
The IRA earned 25 million dollars training the columbian drugs mafia in weapons and explosives, lets not forget The Nrthern Ireland bank robbery, Why don t these "protectors of their people" Invest these millions in the country they terrorised and wrecked for 40 years, Or has it already bben invested in property for the members of their "Army Council"
24

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 16:36:44
23

But the IRA are freedom fighters, didn't you know?
25

Geoff,

sa 01/09/2008 16:49:32
Whatever happens let hope the peace lasts-NI is a wonderfully different place since the "Troubles" stopped.
26

John Knox,

Stockholm 01/09/2008 17:15:51
The Protestant people of our beloved Scotland & Northern Ireland will never bow to the IRA.

No Home Rule for Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Not an Inch!
27

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 17:20:45
Geoff

NI is a wonderful place and always has been. However we don't want terrorists in government or ruling over us. These Republican murder bosses, have the blood of women and children on their murderous hands.

What civillised nation would allow the very people who orchestrated the Shankill bombing, where kids were slaughtered out shopping, to run a country?

No terrorist should ever be rewarded for the mayhem and ethnic cleansing inflicted upon the goos people of Ulster.

Democracy - not murder!
28

John Knox,

Stockholm 01/09/2008 19:15:47
Its time for the Protestant, Unionist, Loyalist people of Scotland and Northern Ireland to stand shoulder to shoulder and defeat the evil among us.

3 Cheers for the Red, White & Blue!
29

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 01/09/2008 19:25:02
#5 #29 Wullie ......You are an Idiot and a Liar. The day before the Kingsmill killings six members of two Catholic families were slaughtered in their homes by Loyalist sectarian murder gangs. The gangs included members of the udr. The udr was supposed to be a British army regiment,but we all know that not to be true. These so called defenders of democracy were up to their necks in the murder of innocent Catholics,with the help of their evil friends in the drug crazed loyalist murder gangs. 1,300 Catholics were done to death by these sectarian killers uda uvf lvf udr etc etc. So! cop yourself on and stop telling one sided lies!
30

Alba Abú,

01/09/2008 19:27:01
#30 John Pox.... The evil is not amongst you,it is in your type.
31

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 01/09/2008 19:33:58
#29 N.I. is a burden on the taxpayers of Scotland England and Wales. You people in the north east of Ireland are only loyal to one thing and thats the hand out that you have been getting from the Scottish people for more than eighty years now!We are the mugs who have been keeping you scroungers going.NI has never contributed a penny to the exchequer in London.Its just take-take-take from you lot.Nobody here in Britain gives a damn about you and the sooner we get rid of you the better for all of us. Irish loyalists,loyal to "the half crown"
32

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 01/09/2008 19:40:20
#28 John Pox.......You are just typical of the Irish loyalist spounger brigade.Why dont you just grow up and stop hanging on to mother England's apron strings.
33

John Knox,

Stockholm 01/09/2008 19:49:09
The God Fearing Law Abiding Protestant people of Scotland and our beloved Northern Ireland, when push comes to shove vote Unionist at the ballot box.

Yes a ballot box where all true Democrats makes there feelings known, and not like the enemies of Ulster at the end of an armalite rifle.

God Save Her Majesty The Queen.
34

John Knox,

Stockholm 01/09/2008 19:53:12
Scotland/Ulster Hands Across The Sea.

Not an Inch!

Scotland, England, Wales & Northern Ireland.

Together we are Beautiful!
35

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 19:56:37
31

As you obviously support the murder of innocents, why don't you tell me where I told lies?

Go on, show me.
36

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 19:58:11
Alba

Sounds like a well hinged bigot who hates all Protestants and Ulstermen. Good to know the Scottish Nats are in such good hands.
37

Como Toes,

Ulster 01/09/2008 20:01:54
Alba Abu, is definitely a hairy-ersed English and British-hating, plastic paddy.

The famine's over son..........

We're enjoying your pain - your day has come.
38

santa cova,

01/09/2008 20:04:44
34 I have to agree with you. These parasite irish loyalists are a backward bunch,the ones here in Scotland are not much better.
I hear that the kkk orangemen are wearing pink sashes next year on the account of the recent revalations that their king billy was a gay and had many boyfriends.
39

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 20:04:51
Alba as someone who pretends to be a Scotsman you seem very interested in events in Northern Ireland Is your cloak slipping?
40

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 20:09:40
Santa Cova it really is a joke for you to compare Orangemen with the KKK If you go into any Orange website you will see coloured members in Scotland ,England Ghana and even Native americans So where do you think the KKK stuff comes from ?Please explain the link
41

Como Toes,

Ulster 01/09/2008 20:12:51
santa cova - another ill-educated bigot.

He cannot defend the actions of the child murdering republicans so in typical nationalist/republican fashion tells lies to deflect from his inadequacies.

More time at the approved school is required for him.
42

santa cova,

01/09/2008 20:13:40
Ho! Ho! Ho! Little silly billy kkk orangemen with their little pink sashes and their gay prince! lol!
43

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 20:16:40
So Santa rather than answer the question you respond with chidish drivel
44

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 20:17:22
Chidish being childish
45

educator,

01/09/2008 20:20:00
My My someone is obviously posting on an empty head or using the seville abacus, lets deal in facts here and nothing else, your assumptions are ludicrous, Loyalist UDR men carried out the killings of the O Dowd and Reavey family ? ? do you have any substance for this claim or are you blowing wind out your uneducated ass, also if we are dealing in facts here, Loyalists killed 17% of the victims of the troubles, The republican murder gangs killed 55%, there were approx' 3,500, so where you get your figure of 1,300 is a mystery to everyone
46

london calling,

01/09/2008 20:23:11
IRA are no more than a taliban mafia
1.Drug runners
2.Extortionists
3.Prostitution
4.Racketeers
5.protection
6.Murderers
And most certainly not freedom fighters...

Must make you proud santa cova..........
scum to a man
47

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 20:31:40
If these backward bigoted orangemen want to be subservient to a foreign monarch ,then let them.If these17th century bigots want to behave like court jesters for their English masters,then let them. However if they attempt to threaten the will of the Scottish peole in relation to our Independence from this discredited union,then they will pay a high price.
48

educator,

01/09/2008 20:33:45
THE ghost of Jean McConville has haunted Mitchel McLaughlin as much as it has haunted Gerry Adams and the members of the west Belfast IRA unit that abducted and murdered the widowed mother of 10 young children in December 1972.
The issue of Mrs McConville's murder and disappearance hung over McLaughlin's campaign to win a first European Parliament seat in 1999. As McLaughlin was tramping the hustings for Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland, the TV and newspapers were carrying pictures of gardai digging a section of beach the size of a football pitch in their vain search for the McConville children's mother. The body was not found. McLaughlin failed to win the seat.

It was to take almost another four years before a man playing with his children noticed a piece of faded material and found it attached to a skeleton, almost half a mile from the spot where the IRA had claimed to have buried the young widow.

The forensic examination of the skeletal remains told the story of what the IRA had done. She had her shoes taken off her, was probably walked to the shallow grave already dug by local IRA men and was then killed with a single shot to the back of the head.

It was only at the inquest last year that the McConville children finally learned that fact and have begun to come to terms with what happened.

It was by this accidental discovery and the process of post mortem and inquest that they learned the truth. It was also the point at which the lies spread about Jean McConville by the IRA and Sinn Fein were also finally buried.

The lying and persecution of the family began almost immediately after her abduction and murder. The local republicans daubed "soldier lover" on the family door and then spread a rumour - and actually told the hungry, lonely children that their mother had abandoned them and run off with a British soldier.

Not a single person on the Falls Road believed the fabrication. Everyone knew the IRA was engaged in a campaign of isolating and
49

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 20:38:01
What high price will we pay Ribbonman?That sounds like a threat By the way you have a strange name for a Scotsman Some of us on here know what the Ribbonmen were you know
50

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 20:47:06
47 educator

can I answer the question that you put to Alba?
Robert Mc Connell whilst serving in the UDR was believed by the RUC to have been directly involved in the sectarian murders of the Reavey family. He was suspected of being involved in thirty sectarian killings. McConnell was later executed by Republican freedom fighters.Like the mass murderers Mad dog Adair and Billy Wright he was untouchable because he was in the pay of the English security forces.I hope that these facts will assist you.
51

adam murray,

Windmillhill 01/09/2008 20:50:25
Republican freedom fighters??Yer having a laugh surely Terrorist scum more like
52

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 20:54:34
49 That should read "people" and not peole.


Scottish nationalists are "THE PEOPLE" Proud of our Scotiish heritage ,proud of our Saltire and unlike the English lackeys(orangemen) We believe in equality for all the Scottish people,not just the bible thumping bigots of the orange order.
53

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 20:54:52
Ribbonman

Can you tell us what your name means and what the high price Unionists will pay is?

54

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 20:56:09
52

I've no idea who was in the pay of the British, but I've heard rumours Martin McGuinness was.

Any truth in that?
55

educator,

01/09/2008 20:56:12
suspected is the key word, I asked for facts, Do you understand the term fact,

lets look at some FACTS

Irish republicans groups killed more people in "the troubles" than all of the loyalist groups and security forces combined,, FACT

The IRA killed more Roman Catholics than any other group during the troubles, FACT

Come back with facts,

Would Freddie Scappaticci be included in your list of untouchables, How ironic is that one, This guy was working for the british and was also in charge of the IRA nutting squad, who tortured and killed suspected tout's lol
56

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 20:59:47
Was King William Gay? Imagine being battered all over Ireland by a tr*nsvestite King. James must have been a cr*p fighter if a pink Prince knocked his lights out.

Some right bad tempered Republicans and Nationalists on here today. Something happened over the weekend to upset them?

bwhahahahaha
57

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:01:02
54

He's seriously deranged this little bigot.
58

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 21:01:07
57 Facts are facts. McConnell was a sectarian murderer, executed by Republican freedom fighters. Wright was a sectarian murderer,executed by the INLA freedom fighters.
59

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 21:02:51
58 you cant alter the fact that silly billy was a poof! Haaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaa.
60

educator,

01/09/2008 21:04:15
You seem to be very opposed to the union Gibbonman or shall I call you Monkey boy, why not leave you adopted country and return to the home of your ancestors, I hear potatoes are plentiful
61

Como Toes,

01/09/2008 21:04:55
Samuel Donaldson
Robert Millar
Ian Armstrong
John Warnock
Ian Hankin
James O'Neill
Robert Benner
Philip Stentiford
David Seaman
David Champ
Ian Harris
Thomas Morrow
Joseph Jardine
Ruby Johnston
James Elliott
Ronald Hurst
David Houston
John Young
Terence Graham
James Lee
Geoffrey Knipe
Joseph Fegan
Michael Gilleece
Craig Lawrence
John McCann
Patrick Murphy
Francis Quinn
Ian Caie
Edmund Woolsey
Stewart Gardiner
John Ruddy
John Morrell
James Strothers
William Watson
Frederick Greeves
William Johnston
Joseph Leahy
John King
Terence Brown
Steven Harrison
John Cribbons
Terence Williams
William Vines
Ian Donald
John Wallace
Isaac Scott
Richard Jarman
Sidney Watt
William McIlveen
Margaret Meeke
Kenneth Hill
Stephen Hall
John Aikman
David Roberts
Ivan Johnston
Aubrey Harshaw
Allan Brammagh
Michael McCreesh
Michael Gallagher
Roy Bedford
Phillip James
Thomas McCall
Muhammed Khalid
John Walton
Dennis Leach
Michael Southern
Brian Allen
Stephen Windsor
Thomas McCreedy
David McNeice
Michael Gibson
Patrick Toner
William Elliott
Alfred Doyle
John Presha
David Thompson
Calvert Brown
Edward Garside
Robert McCarter
Peter Wills
Norman Kerr
William Meaklin
James Frazer
Joseph Reid
William Herron
John Johnston
Nevin McConnell
James McKee
Ronald McKee
Edward Gleeson
John Bell
Joseph Nesbitt
Simon Francis
James Duncan
Peter McDonald
Michael Sampson
John Bryans
Robert Chambers
Reginald Chapman
Walter Chapman
Robert Freeburn
Joseph Lemon
John McConville
James McWhirter
Robert Walker
Kenneth Worton
Marjorie Lockington
Joseph McCullough
Roderick Bannon
David Ferguson
John Pearson
Robert McConnell
Gillian Liggett
William Snowdon
James Borucki
Joseph Wilson
David Hind
Robert Mitchell
Hugh Clarke
Robert Nairac
William Martin
John Anderson
Cecil Grills
Nicholas Smith
Daniel McErlean
Hugh McConnell
William Turbitt
Patrick McEntee
John Fisher
Robert Miller
Gilbert Johnston
62

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:06:02
So ribbonman supports killing anyone with a differing view and is also homophobic.

A well balanced young man indeed!
63

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 21:07:31
63 Is that a list of loyalist dole scroungers? LoL!
64

educator,

01/09/2008 21:08:53
I realise that when an empty head is exposed to romantic songs about old oirland and sinn fein propaganda, The truth and facts are hard to swallow, can we stick to facts, do you understand the term fact, alleged, suspected are not fact, Maybe with the a proper education who would understand this term, oh and by the way, Spiderman is not real
65

Como Toes,

01/09/2008 21:08:55
continued...

Joseph Skelly
Charles Henning
Gareth Wheedon
Graham Duggan
Kevin Johnson
Glen Ling
James Keenan
Martin McGuigan
Peter Woolmore
Thomas Armstrong
Richard Baird
Paul Gray
Robert Lockart
Noel Webb
Agnes Wallace
Alan Dunne
David Stinson
Stanley Hanna
Kevin Thompson
Joseph Porter
Alan MacMillan
George Walsh
Richard Furminger
Paul Reece
George Hawthorne
Paul Fryer
Peter Grundy
Stanley Hazelton
Clifford Lundy
Henry Livingston
John Bateman
Sean Walker
Anthony Shields
William Elliott
Brian Brown
Frank McGrory
Ross Hearst
Wallace Allen
Oliver Walsh
James Stronge
Norman Stronge
Gerry Rowland
Kenneth Acheson
John Robinson
Michael Bagshaw
Paul Bulman
Andrew Gavin
John King
Grenville Winstone
Mervyn Robinson
Michael ONeil
Neal Quinn
Gavin Dean
Trevor Foster
Charles Neville
Seamus Morgan
William Morrison
Albert White
Thomas Cochrane
Charles Spence
Snowdon Corkey
Ronald Irwin
John Martin
Fredrick Morton
Trevor Elliott
Eamon McMahon
Patrick Mackin
Sean McShane
Stephen Taverner
Harold Brown
Victor Cunningham
David Wilson
Austin Smith
Thomas Bingham
William Savage
James Young
Trevor May
Trevor Elliott
Neville Gray
Stephen Anderson
Brian McNally
Patrick Kerr
Francis Murphy
Geoffrey Campbell
Alexander Donaldson
John Dowd
Ivy Kelly
Paul McFerran
Rosemary McGookin
Sean McHenry
Denis Price
David Topping
David Baird
Tracy Doak
Steven Rodgers
William Wilson
David Hanson
James McCandless
Michael Williams
Colm McKevitt
Andrew Finch
David McBride
William Smyth
Terence McKeever
Robert Bertram
Carl Davies
Charles Allen
Karl Blackbourne
Peter Kilpatrick
Iris Farley
Fergus Conlon
Cecily Gibson
Maurice Gibson
James McDaid
Derek Hayes
David Hanna
Maureen Hanna
Robin Hanna
Michael Matthews
Stephen McKinney
Harold Breen
Robert Buchanan
Stephen McGonigle
John McAnulty
Michael Marshall
David Halligan
George Starrett
Graham Stewart
Catherine Dunne
William Hanson
66

Como Toes,

01/09/2008 21:10:32
continued....

William Hanson
David Sterritt
Joshua Willis
Louis Robinson
Cyril Smith
Roger Love
Paul Sutcliffe
Robert Orr
Paul Blakely
Robert Crozier
Sidney Hamilton
Thomas Oliver
Simon Ware
Brendan McWilliams
Andrew Grundy
Paul Turner
Michael Beswick
Jonathan Reid
Nigel McCollum
Lawrence Dickson
John Randall
Kevin Pullin
Brian Woods
Paul Garrett
Daniel Blinco
Eric Smyth
David Wilson
Reginald McCollum
Frank Kerr
Stephen Restorick
Cyril Stewart

From the years 1970 to 1998, all of the above were murdered by Republican cowards in South Armagh, the same cowards that are currently masquerading as pioneers of the peace process.

The list is so long that it takes up 3 posts on this messageboard - that in itself tells a story.

Whatever guise it comes under, Irish Republicanism is evil.
67

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 21:11:56
62 This is my home I am Scottish and proud I am to be.Unlike you I am not subservient to a foreign monarch and I dont have to be reassured by my English masters. Grow up and stand up on your own two feet,put that cap back on your head and show some pride in your country,Scotland. Stop pandering to England.
68

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:12:13
This is what Ribbonman is supporting.

An 82-year-old woman last night called for the Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde to start treating Protestants with " respect".

Rita Crawford, formerly from Belfast but now living in Coleraine, lost her only child in the La Mon bombing 27 years ago, and says she finds it very difficult to see Sir Hugh "constantly jumping on the republican band wagon".

In a letter sent to the Chief Constable, she called for him to do more to help bring closure to IRA victims' families.

Mrs Crawford, who along with her late husband was at the La Mon House Hotel on the night of the February 17, 1978 tragedy, has never emotionally recovered.

She said she has been living with 27 years of traumatic memories - while her husband died 11 years ago of a broken heart. Mr Ian McCracken and his wife Elizabeth

Earlier calls made in the House of Commons on behalf of Mrs Crawford for a Saville-type inquiry into the La Mon atrocity were dismissed.

"I want the La Mon House Hotel bombing to be properly investigated and someone brought to justice.

"I know it will not bring my daughter and her husband back but I want fair play.
"The Chief Constable could do more to help people like me."

Mrs Crawford said 12 people were incinerated at La Mon - among them her 25-year-old daughter Elizabeth and her husband Ian McCracken.

Left - Mr Ian McCracken and his wife Elizabeth

"At the start no one knew what it was, it was just like a huge bang," said Mrs Crawford.

"Then there was total darkness because the electricity was destroyed. "My husband and I had to be pushed out because we were stiff.

"We saw people on fire and men pulling curtains from the rails to cover their wives to try and put out the fires.

"We could not see Elizabeth or Ian. She was 25 and only a year-and-a-half married.

"We did not know until a few years later that Ian had got out and went back in for his wife with a torch from the receptionist.

"He never then got ou
69

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:13:48
Even amid all the horror of the Troubles it ranks as one of the most senseless, sectarian and savage atrocities. Twelve people died and over 30 more were horrifically injured in the La Mon hotel bombing. They had been attending the annual dinner of the Irish Collie Club.

Whatever sick motivation lay behind the IRA's decision to target a group of dog lovers out for their annual 'do’ that February evening 30 years ago we will probably never know.

But that's not to say there aren't people still around who could provide some answers. People who were once at the very heart of the republican movement that planned and carried out that attack.

And are now at the very heart of government in Stormont Take, for example, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness — is there information that these men could give that might provide clarity for the still grieving victims? If the Sinn Fein leaders do know anything, they're not saying. Despite being generally to the forefront when it comes to calling for full disclosure from others, the pair are oddly coy when it comes to any sort of disclosure whatsoever from the IRA. They demand answers about 'state' violence. Given the (paying) role they both hold in the Stormont Assembly, where Martin McGuinness is Deputy First Minister, surely they must now feel a similar duty to tell what they themselves know about republican violence.

Given that both men have supported the spending of mega millions on the Search for truth about Bloody Sunday surely they believe it is equally pressing that no expense — or reputation — should be spared in the hunt for the truth about the equally terrible horror of La Mon. Yet their silence on who did what, who ordered what within the IRA, has been deafening. But then, where is the pressure on either of them to tell what they know?

There has been no media hounding, no documentary films about the horror of what happened at La Mon. Unlike Bloody Sunday, the massacre of La Mon and the search for truth about i
70

Ribbonman,

01/09/2008 21:14:04
66 Oops! Your mask is slipping and the orange bigot is slowly appearing. What a loser you really are.
71

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:15:15
"The carnage and injuries caused by the Provisional IRA/Sinn Fein terrorist bombs are no different than the bombing of the Twin towers in America, September 11th 2001. The difference being the United states wines and dines Provisional IRA/Sinn Fein Terrorists with links to 'FARC' in Columbia and 'ETA' in Spain - why is there a difference made of IRA/Sinn Fein and Bin Laden - are there good terrorists and bad terrorists?, or is it more a case of the 'Irish' Vote needed by the American congress representatives?"

Some of the people were blown to pieces their remains having to be shovel up off the street into plastic bags. Of the 21 bombs that exploded two of the bombs caused the nine fatalities.

The "Bloody Friday" victims are as follows:-

Robert Gibson 45 yrs married with 5 children Ulsterbus driver, Protestant and a Civilian
William Kenneth Crothers 15 yrs of age single Ulsterbus employee, Protestant and a Civilian
William Irvine 18 yrs single Ulsterbus employee, Protestant and a Civilian
Thomas Killops 39 yrs married Ulsterbus employee, Protestant and a Civilian
Stephen Cooper 32 yrs Soldier with the Royal Corps of Transport, 32 Squadron
Philip J. Price 27 yrs Soldier Welsh Guards
Margaret O'Hare 37 yrs mother of seven children, Catholic and Civilian
Stephen Parker 14 yrs old school boy, the youngest, Protestant and Civilian
Brigid Murray 65 yrs, Catholic and Civilian

A car bomb which exploded at Oxford Street station killed four Ulsterbus employees and two soldiers. Another car bomb claimed the lives of two women and a school boy.
72

educator,

01/09/2008 21:15:59
not only is it evil and controlled by mindless murderers, It id fundemantally wrong and It is flawed at every point,

Ireland for the Irish ?

Ireland was first populated by hunters from the mainland of Great Britain. Therefore Ireland belongs to and is populated by Britons
73

Como Toes,

Ulster 01/09/2008 21:16:10
#65.

You are an evil that needs to be eradicated.

You mock the deaths of innocent Protestant and Catholics and all in the name of Irish Republicanism.

Sadly, your kind are all the same.

There will never be peace in Ulster until rebel scum like you are exterminated.
74

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:17:13
Remember the victims of these freedom fighters in Omagh.

The Victims were:-
Two unborn twin girls due to be born within a matter of weeks.
Breda Devine 20 month year old Child - Catholic - Civilian
Fernando Blasco 12 year old school boy from Madrid on an exchange programme with children from Donegal - Civilian
Rocio Abad Ramos 23 year old single woman teacher she was the leader of the exchange group - Civilian
Oran Doherty 8 year Catholic school boy from Buncrana - Civilian
Sean McLaughin 12 year old Catholic school boy from Buncrana - Civilian
Frederick White 60 year old Protestant married with two children - Civilian
Bryan White 27 year old Protestant single - Civilian
Esther Gibson 36 year old Protestant single - Civilian
Olive Hawkes 60 year old Protestant married with two children - Civilian
Brenda Logue 17 year old Catholic student - Civilian
Gareth Conway 18 year old student from Carrickmore, Catholic - Civilian
Jolene Marlow 17 year student, Catholic - Civilian
Alan Radford 16 year old student, Mormon - Civilian
Elizabeth Rush 57 years old married with three children, Catholic - Civilian
Philomena Skelton 49 year old married with four children, Catholic - Civilian
Veda Short 56 years old married with four children, Protestant - Civilian
Geraldine Breslin 43 year old married with one child, Catholic - Civilian
Ann McCombe 48 year old married with two children, Protestant - Civilian
Aidan Gallagher 21 year old single, Catholic - Civilian
Samantha McFarland 17 year old student, Protestant - Civilian
Lorraine Wilson 15 year old school girl, Protestant - Civilian
Julia Hughes 21 year old student, Protestant - Civilian
Brian McCrory 53 year old father of three, Catholic - Civilian
Deborah Anne Cartwright 20 year old single Protestant - Civilian
Mary Grimes 66 year old married with twelve children, Catholic - Civilian
Avril Monaghan 30 years old married with four children, Catholic - Civilian
Maura Monaghan 18 month old child of Avril
75

Feriens,

01/09/2008 21:17:39
Ribbonman is playing William Wallace and Michael Collins here.I can honestly say without fear of contradiction that he's probably the biggest w@nker i've had the misfortune to read on these pages.

Jean McConnell a sectarian murderer??You really are lower than a snakes testicles you subhuman degenerate.

Away back in and slip yer balaclava on back to front again and play with yerself whilst listening to a Jesse Rae album ya crackpot.
76

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:18:50
Scum like ribbonman try and convince us this is for Ireland.


Ten Protestant civilians were murder by the South Armagh Republican Action Force (SARAF), a covername for the Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA), in an attack on their minibus at Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh. The men were taking their usual route home from a textile factory in Glenanne when their bus was stopped by a bogus security checkpoint . The gunmen asked each on board their religion. The driver of the mini bus who was a Roman Catholic was told "to get out of the way" and to "run up the road."

The remaining workmen were lined up and shot with at least four different weapons, some of which were automatic. A police officer said the road was "an indescribable scene of carnage".

A telephone caller claimed the killings as the work of the "South Armagh Republican Action Force".

The "Kings Mill Massacre" victims were:-
Joseph Lemmon 46yrs old married, 3 children
Reginald Chapman 25yrs married 2 children
Walter Chapman 23yrs single
Kenneth Worton 24yrs married 2 children
James McWhirter 58yrs married 3 children
Robert Chambers 19yrs single
John McConville 20yrs single
John Bryans 46yrs widower 2 children were left orphans
Robert Freeburn 50yrs married 2 children
Robert Walker 46 yrs
77

Wullie Anderson,

01/09/2008 21:20:22
Evil like ribbonman says this is in the name of freedom fighters.


The Tullyvallen Massacre victims are as follows:-

William McKee Protestant Civilian farmer, 70 yrs married with five children
James McKee Protestant Civilian farmer, 40 yrs.
Nevin McConnell Protestant Civilian livestock market manager, 40 yrs.
John Johnson Protestant retired farmer 80 yrs
William Herron died two days after the IRA attack on the Orange Hall

This picture shows the outside of Tullyvallen Orange Hall

The Provisional IRA attacked Tullyvallen Orange Hall on the Altnamackin road near Newtownhamilton. They attacked as the members of the 'Guiding Star Temperance Orange Lodge met as usual to hold their monthly meeting.