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SNP's national conversation 'a chatroom for cybernats'



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Published Date: 25 April 2008
ALEX Salmond's "national conversation" on Scotland's constitutional future was last night dismissed as "a chatroom for cybernats" by Labour after it was suggested as little as 1.5 per cent of Scotland's population had logged on to its website.
Written answers given to Lord Foulkes, a Labour MSP, showed that, while there had been 353,061 hits on the site, these came from 59,554 unique users. Lord Foulkes claimed this represented about 1.5 per cent of the electorate, although it is n
ot clear how many of these users are from Scotland.

This pales in comparison to popular social networking sites such as Facebook, which has an estimated 800,000 users in Scotland and millions of hits.

Last night, an SNP spokesman accused Labour and other Unionist parties of failing to engage with anybody in their constitutional commission.

The "national conversation" website is the centrepiece of a £40,000 three-year package to engage with the people of Scotland on the country's future.

Launching the initiative last August, Mr Salmond said it was "the most wide-ranging, inclusive and direct effort from any Scottish government to engage with every person who has a view on the future of our nation".

But last night, Lord Foulkes asked:

"Who is talking in this national conversation? Just short of 60,000 users is a small amount and, even if they all came from Scotland, which I doubt, that represents a mere 1.5 per cent of the electorate.

"The whole site seems to have been designed to attract the small army of cybernats who bombard media and political websites in Scotland in an attempt to create a distorted view of public opinion.

"This is underlined by the fact there is no proper registration for people who leave comments. All they (are] asked to do is put a first name and location, which they can make up."

He added: "It's interesting 41 comments have been removed, but there are still anti-English remarks bordering on racism (on the site]. This is less of a national conversation and more of a cybernat chatroom set up at taxpayers' expense."

An SNP spokesman said:

"(Lord] Foulkes and Labour should look at their constitutional commission, which has engaged zero members of the public.

"The national conversation is engaging with hundreds of thousands of ordinary people so they can help shape Scotland's future.

We are also engaging with major organisations and, this week, we received the backing of the Scottish Trades Union Congress for the national conversation."

TALKING A GOOD CHANGE
THE National Conversation, launched by the SNP, is the official Scottish Government review into Scotland's constitutional future.

The initiative hopes to get people's views through its website and roadshows.

The pro-Union parties have launched a rival constitutional commission which will not look at independence but only more powers for the Scottish Parliament.





The full article contains 483 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

24/04/2008 23:44:16
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2

karinxxx,

25/04/2008 00:09:51
angus you forgot about him knocking over an old lady.
3

karinxxx,

25/04/2008 00:11:58
is the official Scottish Government review into Scotland's constitutional future

What on earth does this sentence mean.

is there an unofficial scottish government or some kind of unofficial review? There is only one review?

The antinal conversation?
4

karinxxx,

25/04/2008 00:12:08
soree national.
5

Senga Jean,

25/04/2008 00:25:20
C'mon SCOTLAND. We CAN do it.
6

Vivas,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 00:30:48
Hilarious that The DeadManWalkingsMan would have the nerve to give this a headline. Only 60,000 eh ???

How about this number.

53,519

A virtual pint to the next punter who can identify that figure. I'll give you a clue, "it's dropping all the time"
7

,

25/04/2008 00:53:22
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8

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 00:55:15
At last, a George Foulkes-related story. The Scotsman's coverage of Foulkes-related material has been utterly pitiful of late. I demand - no, the hard-working families of Scotland demand - that this paper appoints a dedicated George Foulkes correspondent, preferably the great man himself. In fact, it's high time there was a proper George Foulkes section of the paper, so that at long last matters of Foulkes are given their rightful parity of esteem alongside international affairs, science & techonlogy and education.
9

Stepford Nat,

A chatroom 25/04/2008 01:03:23
What this Lordy Fella doesn't understand is that normal people don't spend all waking hours posting on the internet, discussing things that don't affect their day to day lives.

Ordinary people have better things to do, like feeling oppressed.

www.snp.org - we have more important things to do than chat on the internet!
10

Vivas,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 01:04:04
Jackie P, I don't mind this comic's political writing one little bit. I just file it under "light entertainment/comedy".

That 53,159 figure (and dropping) is bringing in less and less dosh to Hootsmon towers. My understanding is that it's this website - and the number of hits it recieves - that keeps advertising revenue going and keeps many (ahem) "journalists" off the dole.

Perversely it's the cyber-nats (for arguements sake I'll call myself one but I'm no party member), that are keeping this ship from sinking altogether, by rising to the bait that The NorthBrittishMan comes out with every day. More fool me ;-)

A decline in SNP fortunes and a unionist revival would probably see the number of "website hits" here decline substantially, so the The UnionsMan should be careful what it agitates for ... even if The Scotsman "wins" in the end ..they'll end up losing ! As it stands, I'm not at all sure that an organised withdrawl of "cyber-nats" from these boards, couldn't just kick away the last financial supports of The CringeMan at a moments notice :-))
11

,

25/04/2008 02:15:15
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12

,

25/04/2008 02:15:59
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13

Guga II,

Rockall 25/04/2008 04:13:18
Forfoulkesake, I see the Hootsmon are still paying a retainer to the drunken lord to put his two bob's worth in.

Why didn't they elicit any comment from him about the lack of a smilar website from the Mouth of the South. I presume though that her Westminster masters (they of the "listening" government) wouldn't allow her to actually listen to the voters.
14

,

25/04/2008 06:40:20
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15

yockel,

25/04/2008 07:07:37
In your rush to put out a blanced article you forgot the url
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/topics/a-national-conversation
16

McX,

25/04/2008 07:19:57
I say, I say, I say, what do you call an English owned, English edited, English staffed newspaper with a distinctly anti-Scottish government bias?


The Scotsman.


Tim Bowdler really is laughing all the way to the bank...

Heh heh heh I wonder which £17k a year graduate web based journalist will edit this name away lest his £1m a year boss gets miffed that his name gets mentioned on one of his own forums...
17

Alasdair,

25/04/2008 07:29:16
What? A politics site scores less hits than a social networking site? Shocking.
With insight like that, it's no wonder David Maddox has risen so quickly to the heights of North British Political Correspondent.
Next he'll be telling us that more people watch Eastenders than Question Time.

Dolt.
18

Truely English,

25/04/2008 07:39:31
Could it be that lots of the foot soldiers involved in politics are volunteers and many accordinding to a politician are dross?

Does this ring true in Scotland. Maybe not.
19

eric,

25/04/2008 07:41:06
Natter natter natter!
20

gus1940,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 07:50:34
Yet another instance of the use of single quote marks in a headline to mislead readers.

This is getting ridiculous.

21

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2008 07:54:25
More rubbish from the Scotsman/daily record (not sure which it is). Either way, apparently Labour are doing really well in Scotland, and Wendy Alexander is skillful in her mastery and command of the debating chamber at holyrood during first minister questions. Apparently.
22

,

25/04/2008 07:54:32
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23

Nikostratos,

25/04/2008 08:07:49
George Foulkes well done reveals just what a con the snp cybernats conversation really is.........You snp drones have done the snp no favours by your actions on the conversation website...........better less Comments but 'REAL' ones from ordinary scots.........you snp lot have really shot yourselves in the foot who can pay any attention to what the final outcome of the conversation is now....................
24

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 08:34:20
Thirty posts so far,only four pro-union, and one of those dosn't count as nurse won't be around with Nikos meds till nine o'clock.
25

,

25/04/2008 08:36:33
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26

McX,

25/04/2008 08:39:47
#30 Conan, we in the elite cybernat brigade own their bases.
27

Scotland to prosper...,

25/04/2008 08:43:39
27# Niko

The Scottish Conversation website is a forum for discussion allowing ALL people a chance to air ALL their views (unlike Labours constitutional commission that refuses to look at Independence). I hope you are not so naive as to think every person will have a credible argument. However it is precisely this ability to allow a full and open discussion that ultimately gives the Scottish Conversation credibility.

It’s a telling fact that Boy George seems to think only crazed cybernats are visiting the site. Is he therefore suggesting there are 60,000 nuts running about Scotland? Good to see Foulkes is a man of the people, always giving them the benefit of the doubt. And then to suggest that 60,000 is a poor figure, I’d like to see the figures from Foulkes Facebook page!

Lets not forget this website has only been running for a maximum of 10months. 353061 hits is pretty significant considering. It’s pointless to even compare Facebook with the Scottish Conversation forum as Facebook is a social networking site, popular with children and teenagers, politics I’m afraid, is not!

Labours strategy in handling this whole affair has been amateur at best. What an insult to the Scottish people to launch a review that doesn’t take into account all the possibilities. They say they omit Independence from the review because the majority of Scots didn’t vote for it. However a significant number did vote for it and to refuse them a rightful voice in the review reveals Labour for what they are. For Wendy to call Labour a socialist party is an affront to the people of Scotland and to those who are truly socialist.
28

Canning,

25/04/2008 08:47:57
#7 is it season ticket holders at Parkhead?
29

McX,

25/04/2008 08:49:30
I wonder whether the Baron is still banned from Facebook.
30

Canning,

25/04/2008 08:50:35
#12 i really hope you can see the irony in the comment that you posted.
31

McX,

25/04/2008 08:53:52
#36 the Step is a brave attempt at a comical unionist. Just keep patting him on the head, he loves it.
32

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 09:04:28
18. Cider - good post! Certainly as someone who has been banned repeatedly from this site for foul and abusive language I feel you have leveraged your special expertise in cyber fruit-cakery well in that post.

27 - Niko, good post, and rest assured that the STUC, Henry McLeish and all the rest of the turn-coats who are endorsing an independence referendum will be disciplined and brought back into the fold!
33

David MacVicar,

Web 25/04/2008 09:21:36
Criticism of the conversation is more than welcome. Keeps it in public view for a start.

However criticism from an opposition politician should be backed by some alternative. Labour has a closed shop, closed door, narrow and entirely unionist agenda where the public has zero idea about what they are discussing and zero idea about the positions of the participants.

Are they going to popup one day and proclaim some kind of 'Final solution'?

Until then the opposition needs to put up or shut up instead of vacuous comments and petty jibes that are at the same level of debate as the very worst of any of the Conversation posts.
34

McX,

25/04/2008 09:22:26
Gentlemen, forget all this nonsense of cybernatting and onionism, here's something to cheer the very cockles of everyone's soul.

http://tinyurl.com/6ysp2z

work and wife safe.
35

David MacVicar,

web 25/04/2008 09:23:43
I should add and where the participants of the unionist cartel have 'zero' idea what to propose except that they agree that any change should be as close to zero as possible.
36

Number 6,

Germany 25/04/2008 09:49:31
What weak journalism you find here. The desperation and fear brought on by the SNP momentum is building
amongst the unionistas, and this kind of claptrap is all they have in reply ?.
37

,

25/04/2008 09:49:43
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38

antifa,

25/04/2008 09:54:10
The National Conversation is a laudible attempt at engaging public opinion, but come on - it has failed to generate any real enthusiasm from much of the population. That cannot be denied by any honest person.

Can Scotland undertake major constitutional change in the midst of such apathy? Perhaps it can, but I can't think of any precedents in modern history.

Compare the current atmosphere in this country with that of Slovenia and Croatia before they broke free of Yugoslavia, a noble idea which had become poisoned by political opportunism.

It's a fair point Labour are making. A foreigner reading these message boards would get the impression there was a huge popular movement for independence, but we all know that's not the case and the polls confirm it: people are just not sure.
39

Melly,

Sussex 25/04/2008 10:00:50
Where did David Maddox get this non story. Did the drunkard F(o)ulkes from from his evening hostelry to give him an anti SNP scoop? or were they in bed together dreaming this up? What kind of journalism is this for goodness sake it`s absolutely pathetic.
40

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 25/04/2008 10:06:16
This attack shows that Labour are still in love with old fashioned print media and think that they can seek to control what's happening on blogs or to rubbish them. The problem for Labour is, no matter how they seek to control the media people will just get their news from other sources. For example, I don't just read the Scotsman. I get my news from a variety of sources. The public, it seems, are far more media savvy these days than Labour.
41

,

25/04/2008 10:09:36
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42

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 10:14:29
43. Ciderman - nice one! Had you not posted under that current moniker about your previous bannings for lunacy, abuse and disgusting language, as well as sexually propositioning female posters (how odd, you don't even know what they look like?) you may have got away with it! Nice one re. George Foulkes, rolling in gutters on top of old ladies and punch policeman is not fruit-cakery!
43

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 10:16:54
47. Nice one, especially as Labour has not taken £93 million from big business and rich donors (if anyone mentions the Hindujas, Mittal, Ecclestone or any illegal donations from a Mr Abrahams or a Mr Green just ignore and move on back to Soutar!)

Don't proposition any posters for a bit if you can control the urge Cider, as you are doing great on here at the moment!
44

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 25/04/2008 10:19:03
"Lord Foulke discovers the internet forums" would be a more accurate title.
A percentage based on the 'have and 'have nots' of computers is ridiculous. Especially when you consider these unionist luddites don't even own their own domain name :-http://www.thelabourparty.org/ is truly hilarious. Add to this bizarre comparison of the specific to general when he it trying to target a specific point of 'hits", a three year old could see through that.

the luddites of Labour onionite in their backward ways.

Guid riddance.
45

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 25/04/2008 10:22:29
Yaaaaaaaaaaawn.......
46

Melly,

Sussex 25/04/2008 10:33:24
Ciderman#47
Stupid reply to my post. I asked where Maddox got this story. It`s pathetic that a "journalist" just sits at his desk waiting for anti SNP stories to emanate from the supreme "Liebour spokesman". Name me one anti Liebour story that was printed in the Scotsman that emanated from an SNP "spokesman". I read quite a few newspapers daily, and cannot say that any of them are as biased as this rag.
47

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 10:35:13
"Who is talking in this national conversation? Just short of 60,000 users is a small amount and, even if they all came from Scotland, which I doubt, that represents a mere 1.5 per cent of the electorate.

"The whole site seems to have been designed to attract the small army of cybernats who bombard media and political websites in Scotland in an attempt to create a distorted view of public opinion."

SURELY NOT! LOL! This has made my day!

While 1.5% may have registered hits, don't forget that less than 0.001% have actually contributed.

Outstanding! I may even say I support Labour in my next poll!
48

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 10:51:40
53. Contd - And let's not forget the cybernats in the USA, Canada, Austria, Switzerland (more cyberracist than cybernat), Finland, France, Germany, Spain, Oz and NZ who are all regulars on here, the Herald and other media sites, are registering multiple times on online polls, have multiple usernames etc.

Nats = students and ex-pats.
Unionists = professionals living and working in Scotland.
49

McX,

25/04/2008 10:53:57

"This is underlined by the fact there is no proper registration for people who leave comments. All they (are] asked to do is put a first name and location, which they can make up."


and they're doing it D E L I B E R A T E L Y !
50

Arfur,

25/04/2008 10:59:18
"The whole site seems to have been designed to attract the small army of cybernats who bombard media and political websites in Scotland in an attempt to create a distorted view of public opinion" - yes Foulkes you keep telling yourself that.

An SNP spokesman said:

"(Lord] Foulkes and Labour should look at their constitutional commission, which has engaged zero members of the public." - exactly, but then that would mean that Labour were a party that actually cared what the people of Scotland said.
51

McX,

25/04/2008 11:03:39
Here's a more measured dignified place to read and post.

http://www.destination.sco.eu
52

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 11:06:33
54. Well said, and as soon as you get a job it will be true as well!
53

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 11:10:12
59. AM2

great post! Thank goodness no comments are made by, for example, candidates for Mayor of London, or BBC presenters, that Scots are subisided pararsites! We would rush to ignore such if it ever happened, in a bid to present a few fringe types on one side as relevant, rest assured!
54

Matt M,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 11:11:29
"What this Lordy Fella doesn't understand is that normal people don't spend all waking hours posting on the internet, discussing things that don't affect their day to day lives."

My God, anyone who ever glances at online newspapers would be forgiven for thinking all the Nats do is sit up all night frothing at the mouth posting vitriol on forums such as these. Perhaps once they might actually address the issue the article relates to instead of projecting insults but as per usual its all a "unionist" conspiracy - and as for "being oppressed" perhaps they might want to ask the clients and their families of the voluntary organisations forced to make cuts or close their doors due to the SNP/Tory budget.
55

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 11:16:04
61. "perhaps they might want to ask the clients and their families of the voluntary organisations forced to make cuts or close their doors due to the SNP/Tory budget."

Well said, we Unionists said exactly that as we voted to divert £190 million in lottery funding from Scottish charities to the London Olympics.
56

,

25/04/2008 11:16:39
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57

McX,

25/04/2008 11:19:34
#59 Yay he's back. I take it you're still banned from Facebook?
58

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 11:20:05
63. Great post. Salmond is not my leader, I follow Brown and Cameron and Clegg!

Love the substantive and analytical aspect of your post, it is a yard stick for Unionist thinking and debating skill!
59

,

25/04/2008 11:25:12
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60

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 11:26:41
60. Where are these? Link it, child!

Are we talking about Boris Johnson?
61

Matt M,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 11:28:56
"Union is Best"

Ah so the Olymics is to blame for the SNP/ Tory budget? Only one problem with that. The budget is not about lottery funding, it's about public funds(ie tax revenue)and the SNP and Tories have combined to cut them to voluntary organisations. It's their fault pure and simple as much as they try to blame everyone else. To paraphrase the SNP - IT'S TIME they took responsibity.
62

,

25/04/2008 11:29:41
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63

McX,

25/04/2008 11:33:05
Ciderman, does your girlfriend still make you sleep on the wet side of the bed?

You'd think she'd have stopped peeing it by age eleven...
64

,

25/04/2008 11:36:14
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65

Portland Geoff,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 11:37:46
The term 'cybernat' was coined to describe the insomniac nationalist bloggers who peddle their distorted, largely offensive and, at times, xenophobic view of the world.

Comments 1-17 QED.



66

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 11:43:19
Foulkes is indeed a joke... the man who thinks in his own words that the Nats are "deliberately" trying to make Scotland a better place to live in.

But anyway, the fact that him and his dear leader are both so upset by cybernats (her mention of it in her conference speech was frankly cringeworthy) kinda shows just how little of substance they have to talk about. They're banging on about irrelevancies cos that pretty much all they can bang on about.
67

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 11:47:15
Oh and his obsession with continually wasting taxpayers money and civil service time with pointless trawling FOI requests is parasitic and a disgrace.
68

,

25/04/2008 11:56:17
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69

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 11:57:53
And finally.... read this:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/politics/Car-park-saucy-picture-shoot.4015564.jp

... we're used to Labour goons fantasizing about getting back into Scottish Government offices .... but this is just ridiculous ;-)
70

brownlie,

25/04/2008 12:11:18
Highland

I agree that is is disgraceful that only 60,000 contributed to the National Conversation which is broadly in line with the postings from your good self, AM2 and the increasingly surreal Cider-pops in any given week. On the other hand it is approximately 60,000 more than contributed to our beloved Unionist Review/Commission.
71

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2008 12:14:24
George Foulkes is obviously doing something right judging by the kind of vitriolic hatefest being spouted by the usual suspects of the SNP lunatic fringe. Swivel-eyed, ill-tempered, illiterate and just a tiny bit racist: don't you just love the cybernats in all their self-righteous and smug glory?
The more people who are exposed their hateful and repellant views the better.
72

brownlie,

25/04/2008 12:16:48
76 Chris J

Us unionists will not take lectures from the sober nats on our beloved Gorgeous George Foulkes who is a legend in his own lunch-time and an absolute night-mare for old ladies. He was probably "fitted up" by the old bill for, single-handedly, consistently fighting for the votes of vulnerable two year-olds who do not pay taxes and do not bother voting.
73

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 12:20:33
#81 You attack the SNP for being ill tempered, yet only ever display bile and abusive language yourself.
Racist? Get knotted - I'm English & was at the SNP conference last weekend with lot of other English members. Where we were born is not an issue in the slightest. Its called civic nationalism and a desire to improve the country that is your home.. concepts that clearly leave you behind. The "racism" only exists in the heads of yourself and others like you - and if I may say its a predictably lame tactic of the Labour Party to try playing the race card. Its not working though.
74

brownlie,

25/04/2008 12:20:38
81 Graham

Us unionist are straight-eyed, good tempered, literate and more than a tiny bit racist and nobody in their right minds, if sober, would call Lord George smug - he is the epitome of humility and never forces his opinion on others except vulnerable old ladies.
75

,

25/04/2008 12:21:12
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76

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2008 12:22:07
82
Who needs a national conversation when you can have snide wee anonymous personal attacks on the internet, eh?
Welcome to the cybernats' view of a SNP-led Scotland: intolerant, bitter, grievance-fuelled and nasty.
No thanks...
77

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2008 12:23:57
83
Chris,
I think you should be addressing your remarks to your racist colleagues skulking in the ranks of the nationalist movement.
78

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 12:29:14
#87 To use your own words, intolerant, bitter, grievance fuelled and nasty pretty much sums you up.

You obviously don't have the mental faculties to engage in real debate so have to try baseless smears.

And no-one was skulking - why would we need to with such a sense of purpose and optimism in the air?
79

,

25/04/2008 12:30:19
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80

brownlie,

25/04/2008 12:31:40
86 Graham

If you want some illustrations of snide wee anonymous personal attacks you need look no further than Grahamski's posting at 81 above. You may also find intolerance, bitterness, grievance fuelled nastiness in the same posting.
81

brownlie,

25/04/2008 12:35:22
89 Ciderman

Hi, Scrumpy, Much as I consider Union to be an extremely able advocate for unionism, sadly, the only thing we have in common are Jackie's briefings and concern for HM's ability to change identities without recourse to a phone-box.
82

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2008 12:35:26
88

You obviously don't have the mental faculties or indeed vocabularly to engage in debate either, choosing to plagiarise my posts, top marks for choosing me to copy, though.
On the topic of why your racist elements need to skulk, I wouldn't have thought Mr Salmond was going to proclaim that his party is racist and proud any time soon, hence the skulking.
83

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 12:37:25
#92 You're now losing the plot pal.

I'm quoting back your own bile to you or is your memory failing you?
84

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 12:42:04
90. YOU may want to read any of Jackie Priest's ranting posts about unionists not being 'true Scots' and the "gypsy" "culture-less" English.
85

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 12:44:41
87. Grahamski - nice one! "British Jobs for British Workers!" "London keeps the Scots in the style they are accustomed to"! "Scots are subsidy junkies!" "Scots like to spend money money but not to earn it"
86

brownlie,

25/04/2008 12:48:24
94 Highland

You may wish to know that an obvious faker is posting under your monicker on another Scotsman thread under the Trump heading. You and I may not agree on much but I cannot stand people using some-one else's monicker which, I venture to suggest may well be the case with Jackie Priest's as well.
87

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 12:49:02
95. Where's the London mayoral candidate and the BBC journo on that smash-hit site, the Nat Conversation?
88

,

25/04/2008 12:49:20
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89

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 12:51:12
98. Well said! The SNP desire to raise all revenue in Scotland is a clear sign of their desire to be dependent on Westminster funding!
90

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 13:00:06
96. A nat talking p*sh under my username?

Why, that really would be a pathetically childish thing for someone to do.

Are you sure?
91

,

25/04/2008 13:00:55
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92

,

25/04/2008 13:03:27
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93

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 13:04:14
102. He says he only turns up for "Scotland-related" votes.....then it's revealed that he has only turned up for 4 out of the last 170 votes.

4 out of 170 doesn't exactly demonstrate muchWestminster "interference" in Scottish affairs, does it?
94

brownlie,

25/04/2008 13:06:06
101 Highland

I do not know if it was a nat - it certainly was not Grahamski because it was not abusive - but it was some crap about bodily functions.
95

Nurse,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 13:28:56
Dont you just love Lord Foulkes he is such a sweat inteligent old Labour Dinosaur, it wont be long before he goes totaly ga ga, and start criticising the SNP for putting Scotland`s interests first and trying to help the poor by getting rid of the Poll Tax, oh sorry didn`t he do that on National TV / Bless him, hope he keeps up with his anti - dementia med.
96

Miss H,

25/04/2008 13:41:57
104 What it demonstrates is Westminster's increasing irrelevance in Scottish politics and the absurdity of Westminster retaining control of matters which should really be decided in the Scottish Parliament.
97

brownlie,

25/04/2008 13:45:35
103 Ciderman

You may recall that yesterday, i.e. the day before today, I stated that I abhor all abuse but especially racist abuse whether that be from unionists, nationalists, don't knows and English Democrats. Indeed I had to have a word with HM or was it you, yesterday regarding abuse.
98

brownlie,

25/04/2008 13:48:04
107 Nurse

I think you gave George the benefit of the doubt on at least two occasions but you left out his word "deliberately" before "putting".
99

Resolutions,

25/04/2008 13:54:12
For those busy having a go at the National Conversation, have you actually visited the site, let alone participate?

From the ill-informed comments from a lot here, it would seem not, but then maybe tha idea of actually being able to put a view is alien to you except when you can pass snide comments and worse about other folk. Most of them showing a desparate shallowness too.

Have you any ideas at all on your country? Or are you prepared to be told what is good for you by so many clones based in Westminster or thereabouts? And for that part, what are you contributing to Scotland at the moment? Girning you are good at!

#7 Suspect, its something to do with circulation of a printed item?
100

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/04/2008 13:54:26
Anybody else starting to think that either Lord Geordy has something on the Scotsmans editor or that he is a major share holder in the company that owns it.
101

Saruman,

25/04/2008 13:55:28
#8 Priest writes: “And what is public onion translated into votes? That's right. The SNP. Our government. The biggest political party in Scotland.”

Sorry, Priestie, but you must know as well as I do that the SNP is only too eager to attract voters who don’t actually support its independence agenda. It’s completely misleading to equate support for a political party which seeks to promote a welter of policies with support for its most discredited policy, ie the independence agenda. What’s more, Salmond is attracting votes in his capacity as leader of a devolved administration, not as the future leader of a separatist answer to Albania. Am I right or am I right!
102

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 13:59:34
109. "Indeed I had to have a word with HM or was it you, yesterday regarding abuse."

Did you?
103

brownlie,

25/04/2008 14:02:09
114 Highland

Yes, I did - check it out!
104

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/04/2008 14:37:15
My what a lot of names Lord Geordy has to contribute under!

BTW, anybody any theories as to why the Scottish press doesn't seem to be giving much coverage to the London Olympic scandal as highlighted by a commons committee, nor are they letting much in the way of public comment be seen either.

Maybe some of the unionist contributers have an idea on the subject, you know, if one lot of unionist MP's claim that another lot of unionist MP's are either crooks or down right incompitant, it must be true right, so which is it, could they please let us know and could they also let us know what Scotland will get out of it and when will we get our good causes Lotto money back?

Or maybe Lord Geordy has an answer, there has to be a first time for everything!
105

,

25/04/2008 15:10:32
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106

John PM,

Edinburgh 25/04/2008 15:11:30
The fact is the SNP is having a consultation which is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC in sharp contrast to the British Unionist Movement's which has appointed a career civil service to dae what he's telt. He's been advised to discount independence at the outset and there will be no discussion of the most logical option.

Labour and the Lib Dems had the opportunity to involve themselves in the conversation but they decided to claim the game was a bogie and b*gger off hame wi their ba'.

If their commission is a deid duck then they have only theirselves to blame and spitting and spluttering at those who are interested in Scotland's future shows why they lose the argument on every internet forum where Scotland's future is discussed.

Their arrogance is insufferable and clearly they need another electoral kick to get them to see sense and start to really think about democracy for the people of Scotland.
107

,

25/04/2008 15:21:09
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108

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 15:22:51
#54. Highland Mighty - "Nats = students and ex-pats.
Unionists = professionals living and working in Scotland."

Well, of course, we all know that Highland Mighty's more startling claims are always entirely evidence-based. So I must admit I'm slightly confused by YouGov's most recent poll of 1070 voters living in Scotland which appears to my naive eye to prove the complete opposite.

Support for independence in general population - 34%
Support for independence among 35-54 year olds - 38%
Support for independence in social classes A/B/C1 - 34%

SNP constituency vote in general population - 40%
SNP constituency vote among 35-54 year olds - 40%
SNP constituency vote in social classes A/B/C1 - 39%

SNP regional vote in general population - 33%
SNP regional vote among 35-54 year olds - 35%
SNP regional vote in social classes A/B/C1 - 34%

SNP vote for Westminster in general population - 31%
SNP vote for Westminster among 35-54 year olds - 32%
SNP vote for Westminster in social classes A/B/C1 - 31%

So these baffling figures lead me to one of two conclusions - either there must be far more mature students than I ever realised and a huge number of 'professionals' must have just returned home from Australia, Finland, Spain etc., or...

Highland Mighty 'caught talking utter drivel' shocker? SURELY NOT! LOL!
109

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 15:27:23
117. Well said, they started it. Did too. Did too.
110

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 15:28:49
119. Cider. Spot on - the fact Lord George the convicted police basher is a Lord shows he is an upright chap. Just like Lord Watson and Lord Archer and Lord Levy.
111

,

25/04/2008 15:29:04
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112

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 15:33:43
#123. Ah yes, I'd forgotten the argument of last resort - the opinion polls are rigged by the SNP (apart from the ones that are more helpful to unionists which are of course rigorously and scientifically conducted).
113

,

25/04/2008 15:35:46
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114

,

25/04/2008 15:37:56
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115

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 15:42:00
125. Ciderman, well said, if the jorunalists were McWhirter or other Nat-leaning types! But I can#t go along with your blanket call to torch the scribes, as there are some solid types like Melanie Reid and Ruth Wishart!

Lord Levy was arrested, but refused to cooperate with the police, along with the rest of Labour! Labour - tough on crime, and tough on the causes of crime, mostly.
116

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 15:42:31
126. QUite right! Polls that show increasing support lead to electoral failure.
117

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 15:46:02
#126. Do you mean the Kenneth Calman brand of complacency when he claimed that no-one in Scotland was interested in independence?
118

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 15:47:57
124. Absolutely.

The claim by SNP and nats alike that GERS is rigged by consecutive Westminster/Holyrood governments of all parties (except the SNP, obviously), the EU and the WTO (who regularly audit public accounts), the oil companies, the oil markets, the City, OPEC, the Norwegian Government and the World Bank all to trick the Scottish nationalist movement is far more feasible and realistic.
119

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 15:50:01
128. Quite right! It is far better to spin a steadily decreasing lead in the polls, over five consecutive months and four separate polls, as 'increasing support'.
120

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 15:52:59
131. Spot on. The headline in yesterday's Scotsman about the "SNP surging to record level of support" was more delusional garbage, which I filed with seven opinion polls over the past 6 months all showing the SNP ahead. When will they realise we are not fooled?
121

,

25/04/2008 15:53:10
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122

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 15:53:13
120. Excellent work. Ignore that I was obviously talking about the nats that swamp these boards and quote a broad range of polls that ALL show continuing minority support for the SNP.

And make sure to add:

"SURELY NOT! LOL!"
123

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 15:57:35
132. Superbly proving my point in post 131. Well done!

Make sure you continue to ignore these four polls:

Nov 07: 11% lead
Jan 08: 9% lead
Mar 08: 8% lead
Apr 08: 7% lead

I can't stress 'continued denial' enough. Seriously.
124

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 15:59:30
135, erm, Highland, how does it help our case if you keep posting polls showing the SNP well ahead?
125

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:00:59
133. Well done. I have asked a crack squad of our stenographers to transcribe that into comprehensible English, good effort.
126

,

25/04/2008 16:04:11
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127

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 16:08:15
#134. Oh, so I've shot myself in the foot by showing "minority support for the SNP", have I? Please tell me, which political party in the whole of western Europe can literally claim "majority support"? Fianna Fail in Ireland? The UMP in France? PSOE in Spain? The SPD in Germany? The Social Democrats in Sweden? Is there even a single one?

"And make sure to add: 'SURELY NOT! LOL!'" - I'd have hoped even you might be sufficiently self-aware to realise that I was mimicking you, but I'm starting to wonder.
128

,

25/04/2008 16:09:51
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129

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 16:12:46
#138. These online polls you're talking about wouldn't include the YouGov one I was quoting earlier, would it? If so, I think you should know that even your 'cardinal' AM2 is on record as saying YouGov polls are properly conducted (as indeed they are, because they're weighted by past vote recall, and by demographic data).
130

brownlie,

25/04/2008 16:15:57
140 Ciderman

Quite right. Lord Levy was not charged and neither was my beloved Wendy - us unionists look after our own.

Do you know if a Prime Minister can stop individuals being charged with fraud and bribery if they pay enough money into party funds or if the prosecution could embarass the government of the day.

PS I remember from playing against Forres Mechanics that Forres is in the Highlands. Now there's a co-incidence for you.
131

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:18:11
140. Ciderman - going to jail without committing an offence? Sounds like 90 day detention with no trial and Guantanamo to me! Is it wise to slag that off, given jail without trial is our Labour flagship jjustice policy?
132

,

25/04/2008 16:25:38
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133

oddoneout,

25/04/2008 16:25:56
53,519, surely you are begging the comparison to the national conversation. It means that the paper that you deride so much has more readers in a single day than the national conversation has had in nearly a year?
134

,

25/04/2008 16:31:28
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135

FrancesP,

25/04/2008 16:32:55
#144. That response worries me. As soon as I posted #141, I thought 'I'm being stupid here, there's no way Ciderman is talking about YouGov polls, he's only talking about silly pop-up polls that allow multiple voting'. But now I'm not so sure. Could you just clarify - are you seriously suggesting that YouGov polls can be rigged by SNP supporters? If so, I have to tell you that is a bizarre claim.
136

,

25/04/2008 16:33:07
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137

brownlie,

25/04/2008 16:33:19
145 oddoneout

Our George has had more hits in one day than the Review/Commission has had.
138

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:33:56
146. Ciderman - Ah, so now "suspected" criminals should be jailed? Does that not undermine your point about Lord Levy?

I like your thinking on this! Some people we "suspect" of crimes will be locked up without trial, and other people suspected of (or actually admitting to crimes) such as Levy and Wendy Alexander will not, because they are upstanding Unionsists. Yes, works for me and great post!
139

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:36:33
146. The SNP's solution to EVERYTHING is to throw money at it.

So, the SNP's solution to dealing with terrorists in Scotland is to pay them to not blow us up.

Done. Dusted. Next.
140

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:37:53
151. Quite right! They will be stoning suspected terrorists with rolled up bank notes.
141

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:39:30
150. Indeed. Because if we cannot prove in court that they are terrorists, then they absolutely, certainly and surely can't be.

Martin McGuinness was never proven to be linked to the IRA in court so he obviously isn't.

Bin Laden has not been convicted of links to terrorism so he can't be either.

That is exactly how life works.

And after we have not proved they are not terrorists, Salmond can throw some money at them.
142

brownlie,

25/04/2008 16:39:43
148 Cider

I know it's in Moray but Moray is in the Highlands unless it's moved in the last 20 years. I remember some-one else on this forum yesterday claiming, along the same lines, that Scotland was not in the north of Britain. Probably another co-incidence.
143

brownlie,

25/04/2008 16:41:27
151 Highland

I don't recall hearing that the SNP were willing to throw money at the problem caused in Iraq by our illegal invasion.
144

,

25/04/2008 16:41:40
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145

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:43:07
It is warming to see that the doctrine of 'continued denial' among the SNP doesn't just apply to sliding leads in the polls but also to life in general.

Next, they will be telling us that Scotland is subsidising the entire £1.2trillion UK economy "because we must be".
146

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:45:21
155. Ah, the old Iraq chestnut. I haven't seen that discredited argument in hours now.

So, remind me which judge declared the Iraq War "illegal"?

Remember, only a judge can declare something illegal, not an administrator.
147

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:47:19
153. Er, Highland, is not proving things in court the cornerstone of the justice system of a free democracy? Or are we against proving things in court against criminals now? (that would explain why Wendy, Hain and Harmen haven't seen the inside of one yet!).

And the McGuiness chap - did not Major and Blair have him round to number 10? Probably they were getting ready to stone him or similar, as they wouldn't have been negotiating with him?
148

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:48:22
158. Erm, so we need a judge to declare the Iraq war illegal, but we don't need a judge to declare suspected terrorists illegal? I am getting confused. Send me the briefing sheet please.
149

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:48:50
159. So you say Osama Bin Laden and McGuinness are innocent of links to terrorism?
150

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:49:30
160. Who said "suspected terrorists are illegal"?
151

Alan B,

25/04/2008 16:51:08
#158 Highland Mighty

"So, remind me which judge declared the Iraq War "illegal"?"

Head of the UN Kofi Annan (rightly or wrongly).

If are saying that it is legal what is ur basis for arguing that point?



152

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:52:29
161. EH? WHere did I say that? I just said that when John Major and Tony Blair had that McGuiness round to 10 Downing Street those 8 times, they must surely have been slippering his botty for being a terrorist and not negotiating with him?
153

brownlie,

25/04/2008 16:52:52
158 Highland

Sorry it is a current chestnut. If a judge and jury had had the opportunity to rule if it was legal to murder men, women and children on the strenght of a dodgy cobbled together document and downright lies regard annihilation within 45 minutes then I feel quite confident of the verdict. However, we unionists will not get convicted because we are above what is laughably called the law of the land.
154

,

25/04/2008 16:54:10
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155

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:56:16
163. Kofi Annan is a judge? What is his legal background?

I thought the judges of such matters are in the International Court of Justice in The Hague.



156

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:56:30
166. Erm, I think the SNP are in favour of arresting and putting criminals on trial. They are so behind the times, and have not adopted our new age Unionist detention without trial and doing away with court-frivolity when dealing with criminals! We are cutting edge! Our rendition/ torture policy is 21st century justice, in the raw - tough on crime, tough on habeas corpus!
157

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 16:57:22
164. So you say Osama Bin Laden and McGuinness are innocent of links to terrorism?
158

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:57:33
167. But I thought we didn't believe in courts for terrorism? So why would we use the International COurt of Justice? I am getting all confused. Coordination!
159

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 16:58:55
169. Eh? Where did I say that? Those people are filth and low terrorist scum - I just wondered what the cunning plan of John Major and Tony Blair was, if they know that McGuiness is a scummy terrorsit, in keeping inviting him to 10 Downing Street? Perhaps they planned to spike his tea with polonium?
160

brownlie,

25/04/2008 16:59:40
166 Cider

They do have a policy on the abhorrent practice euphemistically called rendition flights where our cowardly allies fly suspects out to be tortured.
161

,

25/04/2008 16:59:44
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,

25/04/2008 16:59:53
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,

25/04/2008 17:02:09
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164

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:03:01
174. Erm, is not Brown our Leader in favour of detention without trial for 90 days! (and quite right too from what you say)! And do we not cooperate with rendition/ torture (easier than these tedious courts as you say)!

165

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:04:39
171. But they have never been convicted in court, how can you say that?

So the nats are clearly in favour of letting terrorists walk free until we have enough evidence to lock them up.

An excellent policy that perfectly balances the human rights afforded to innocent civilians by the IED makers, snipers and suicide bombers of the terrorist groups.
166

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:06:28
Still waiting for the Judge that declared the Iraq War "illegal"....
167

,

25/04/2008 17:07:35
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168

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

25/04/2008 17:08:06
"#5 Jackie Priest,25/04/2008 00:12:30

60,000 people particpating on an online debate on a single website is an absolute huge amount."

A unique posting name does not necessarily mean a unique poster. If it's anything like this site there will be many individuals with multiple identities.


169

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:08:07
177. Erm, was it the SNP who met with McGuiness at Downing Street? I am getting well confused here! You say McGuiness is a terrorist, and the UK should lock them up, then when the UK government meets McGuiness they don't lock him up, instead they give him tea and a cream bun at No 10, and you say it is the SNP? We are getting in a fankle! We need coordination! Follow Cider's lead!
170

brownlie,

25/04/2008 17:08:58
175 Cider

Not if they try and involve Scotland in an illegal war in a country that is not a threat to Scotland unlike the decision us unionists had to make on the basis of lies.
171

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:09:19
179. Ciderman.

Quite right - rendition/ torture is a USA polciy, but one which we the proud UK proudly cooperate with and help along. And quite right from what you say about the need to get these people, without trial!
172

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:09:53
181. Indeed. That just makes it look like the whole situation is a little more complex than you can comprehend.

And that surely can't be right.
173

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:11:54
184. You said McGuiness is a terrorist. You say that terrorists should be locked up. So how come our Unionist government ain't locked him up? Are they just letting terrorists wander the streets (and parliaments) willi nilly like we say the SNP would? God, we are all over the shop here.
174

,

25/04/2008 17:13:02
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175

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:13:05
182. There you are with that word again.

If you want to claim to be accurate and truthful, sticking abley and resolutely to the facts, you need to name your source for calling the war illegal.

I mean, surely you checked this type of thing out before repeating it? Only the gullible/ignorant/ill-informed/all of above would do something like that.

Maybe "illegal" is not the right word for you to use. Perhaps?
176

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:14:19
185. No, YOU said he was a terrorist in post 171.

Are you getting yourself confused again?
177

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:17:20
186. Brillian! Love it! So, "abolishing the 10p tax rate will not hit the low paid" is not a lie, just incorrect intelligence!

And sexing up and distorting intelligence, with totally inaccurate 45 minute WMD claims is not lying! (weird that the intelligence never said Iraq could attack the Uk at 45 minutes notice, but that is what was briefed to and reported in the press)
178

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:18:01
182. Indeed. Apart from the thousands of tons of pre-cursor material for VX, Sarin and Mustard Gas delivered to Iraq, the chemical attacks on Kurdish villages, the constant obstruction of UN inspection teams, the failed attempt to build a supergun to launch chemical weapons at Israel and the discovery of dozens of fully-armed chemical artillery shells AFTER the 2003 war...

...that Iraq had chemical weapons is a lie!
179

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25/04/2008 17:19:10
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180

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:21:24
189. Absolutely. It takes far longer than 45 mins to load a chemically-armed artillery shell into a gun.

And the nationalists are right. We SHOULD abandon our allies to attack. That is the brave and honourable thing to do.

We should only get involved when the UK is under attack. That is the bedrock of the NATO alliance, after all!
181

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25/04/2008 17:21:41
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182

brownlie,

25/04/2008 17:21:52
186 Cider
187 Highland

The imminent attack within 45 minutes was claimed in Parliament and well reported and our MPs voted on that basis. Subsequent events showed that this was a lie and subsequent investigations showed that the US government and our government knew that it was a lie. Indeed, shortly after 9/11 the USA made preperations to attack Iraq.
183

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:22:13
191. Ciderman, QUite right, and I think it is outrageous that an SAS officer would say that the UK did cooperate with rendition torture, and it was quite right an injuntion was put on him by our open government, freedom of information Labour government!This is pure lies below:

Court gags ex-SAS man who made torture claims | UK news | The GuardianBen Griffin could be jailed if he makes further disclosures about how people ... Referring to the government's admission that two US rendition flights ...
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/29/military.law - 55k - Cached - Similar pages

SAS 'held suspects for extraordinary rendition' - Telegraph21 Feb 2008 ... Telegraph TV: Ben Griffin makes his extraordinary rendition claims ... Mr Griffin said the SAS was part of a joint US/UK unit which captured ...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/25/nrendition325.xml - 50k - Cached - Similar pages
184

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:26:02

191. Ciderman - you say is an "outrageous lie" that that our proud UK cooperates with USA rendition/ torture, so we need a reason to explain away why this SAS officer is lying about the UK cooperating with rendition/ torture? he sounds English, but maybe he is a Nat?

www.miraj.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=706 - 81k - Cached - Similar pages

SAS veteran: 'We held terror suspects before handing them over to ...25 Feb 2008 ... Former SAS soldier Ben Griffin left the army in disgust, claiming British forces have taken part in special rendition ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=518517&in_page_id=1770 - Similar pages
185

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:27:00
195. So, as well as letting terrorists roam free, associating with fellow terrorists as and when they wish, UNTIL a court can jail them...

...You now want to release captured terrorists instead of making every effort to identify their groups, their intentions and their operating methods?

Maybe, you think we should just ask them a few times first if they want to hand over this information...and then let them go?
186

brownlie,

25/04/2008 17:27:31
193 Cider

In the event of independence there will be no British army. There might be a Welsh/English/Northern Ireland army but I doubt it.

Anyway, I'm off to the pub. Catch you later if it's not past your bed-time!!
187

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25/04/2008 17:28:17
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188

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:29:03
197. No, I think captured people should be handed over for rendition/ torture, just as the UK did. I think we need to be coordinated on this - you support it, I say it happened as does the SAS soldier, but Ciderman say it is "an outrageous lie" - we need coordination on this! Are we for the UK cooperating with rendition/ torture or not? I am getting confused by you and Cider again.
189

,

25/04/2008 17:29:32
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190

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:30:30
191. Cider - why is this SAS officer lying about UK involvement in rendition/ torture? You are surely correct that it is "ridiculous" and a lie to say the UK does this, so why does this SAS chap make it up?

191

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:33:15
202. Odd, Cider has gone quiet.
192

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25/04/2008 17:33:16
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193

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:33:22
198. Last time I checked, we live on an island called 'Great Britain' in a group called the 'British Isles'.

Will the SNP change the name of the lot should they get independence??

Maybe Switzerland should demand that the 'European' Union changes its name too!

Maybe Canada should demand their neighbour stops referring to itself as 'America'?
194

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:35:46
206. Ciderman - I am still confused. This SAS chap said the Uk cooperated with rendition/ torture. As you said this is ridiculous, and a lie, he must be lying? But why? Is he a Nat or something?
195

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:36:53
"Jackie Priest in rant about the English shocker!"
196

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:43:04
Oh look, UIB has got his teeth into something!

So you DO want to release captured terrorists instead of making every effort to identify their group members, their funding, their intentions and their operating methods?

And you think we SHOULD just ask them a few times first if they want to voluntarily hand over this information...and then let them go?
197

McX,

25/04/2008 17:45:20
# 208 Union is Best, What ho old crocus?

For a quick laugh post the following url in front of the current scotsman url, it's particularly pertinent when reading ciderman/AM2/Mighty/Alfred posts....

http://tinyurl.com/6ozy4r

Oh and feel free to distribute it as far and wide as you can.


198

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25/04/2008 17:45:28
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199

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:46:42
210. Erm, Highland, we need to get coordinated here! I don't know what Uk policy I am apologising and spinning for! Should i defend the UK cooperating with rendition/ torture like you say, or should I back up Ciderman when he says it doesn't happen anyway? Jeez!
200

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:47:35
It's absolutely fascinating how Salmond has convinced the nats that His way, and His way alone, leads to a perfect society.

And a 'perfect society' not just here but the ENTIRE WORLD!

Does He also give sermons on mounts?
201

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:49:26
211. What u mean? Put that url in the broswer thing ahead of the current one? It not work on its own
202

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 17:49:58
214. Mounts or mounds?
203

,

25/04/2008 17:50:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
204

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:50:53
211. I'm going to hazard a guess that this is another glorious example of that nationalist maturity known throughout the land.
205

McX,

25/04/2008 17:53:09
#215 Och surprise spoiled, try this in front of it.

http://www.svamp.eu/cocks/?url=
206

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:53:58
UIB, do try to stop avoiding the questions:

Would you release captured terrorists instead of making every effort to identify their group members, their funding, their intentions and their operating methods?

Or do you think we should just ask them a few times first if they want to voluntarily hand over this information, before letting them go?
207

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 17:59:45
219. That English Nationalist Party, huh. Their total disdain, their endless rants, their blitzing of media websites, their mindless accusations and their baseless claims about Scotland are a blot on the English landscape.
208

Very Strange but not surprising,

25/04/2008 18:04:40
#73 AM2,Scotland,UK 25/04/2008 11:33:05
(then 6 hours later)

#203 Jackie Priest,25/04/2008 17:31:33
AM2,

Strange that you should make your re-appearance when there's one of these cranky Foulkes stories

(then only 20 mins later)
#219 AM2,Scotland,UK 25/04/2008 17:52:41
#203 Jackie Priest blah blah blah

Lord Foulkes should also mention the Unionists troll stalkers of this website. Confirmation that Highland Mighty and AM2 are the same poster of is it that AM2 sits all day in silence and troll? Go figure.
209

Very Strange but not surprising,

25/04/2008 18:10:01
Who made this Labour despot a lord anyway? Is he just another one of those despots hated in our communities like the Rev (sic) Ian Paisley who purchased his title in a book shop in America?
210

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 18:11:09
Jackie Priest, you can never, ever, ever accuse anyone else of being racist. Ever

And you to actually use the word 'hypocrisy' too. Truly psychotic.

You are THE racist bigot of these boards.
211

Very Strange but not surprising,

25/04/2008 18:13:50
Paisley's use of the title 'Dr' derived initially from a 1954 qualification from the (outlawed [4]) American Pioneer Theological Seminary in Rockville, Illinois. Later this was somewhat legitimised by an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by Bob Jones University, a fundamentalist Christian but unaccredited college in Greenville, South Carolina. Bob Jones, Jr. was a close personal friend and, with Paisley, a leader in evangelical Christianity. Paisley continues to maintain a friendly relationship with the institution and has often spoken at the University's annual Bible Conference.

Is this the same road George Foulkes went down to get his Lord (more sic) title?
212

Very Strange but not surprising,

25/04/2008 18:20:21
On 13 May 2005 it was announced that he would be created a life peer, and in June 2005 the peerage was gazetted as Baron Foulkes of Cumnock, a decision that raised a few eyebrows in the Scottish media.Some today still challenge the decision to grant Foulkes (Lord.Baran)status due to his corruption in the world of politics.
213

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 18:20:42
231. Jackie Priest says Unionists are "prejudiced beyond the limits of reason" and "seek to demean them by labelling them all sorts of subhuman species"?

Yep, total nutcase.
214

Truely English,

25/04/2008 18:20:59
It is so sad to see British people squabbling about who is English or Scots or whatever when it is clear we are all now both Celtic and English culturally and linguistically.

What better could we be?
215

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 18:21:42
221. They should be terrorised and tortured, to preserve our free democratic society from terror and torture.
216

Highland Mighty,

25/04/2008 18:22:12
UIB, do try to stop avoiding the questions:

Would you release captured terrorists instead of making every effort to identify their group members, their funding, their intentions and their operating methods?

Or do you think we should just ask them a few times first if they want to voluntarily hand over this information, before letting them go?
217

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 18:24:26
229. Ultra-naty? Were they not a pop group?
218

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 18:25:26
236 see 225.

These people should be treated to detention without trial, torture and terror, to preserve our free democratic system of justice they seek to undermine with terror.
219

GM,

25/04/2008 18:26:15
@236

which moniker is it today then HM?
Any others on the go?

Please provide a list of all your alternative 'usernames' on the Scotsman comments and we can at least attempt to keep track.

Still dont know if I ever got a reply from you as to how the post you made admitting (by mistake) that you post here under multiple name was pulled completely from the website...


ooooh

and to add.

AM2 back in a thread
'The Race Card' back in a thread
no surprise there then.
220

Very Strange but not surprising,

25/04/2008 18:34:32
Highland Mighty (Labour) has posted on this thread 42 times representing 18% of all corresponders (sic)
221

Queen D,

Glasgow 25/04/2008 18:35:45
Where is the poll Scotsman?
Where is the supposed e-mail , showing that the "nats" flooded your poll , therefore you thought that it was too "skewed " for your liking?
Did you show it to old Georgy Porgie?
Hence the attack on the National Conversation???

Interesting to note the fall in circulation figures, why is that do you think??
222

An Beal Bacht,

25/04/2008 19:00:40
Ors a' Bhéist Mhór ris a' Bhéist Bhig

On smith thu, ithidh mi thu;
On s mion thu, ithidh mi thu;
Ged s dis thu, ithidh mi thu;
Nuair nach fhios duit, ithidh mi thu;
O nach mis' thu, ithidh mi thu;
Gheibh mi ris thu, 's ithidh mi thu;
Chi mi leis thu, 's ithidh mi thu;
On s treis duit, ithidh mi thu;
On s driop e, ithidh mi thu;
O nach tric seo, ithidh mi thu;
On s a-nis duinn, ithidh mi thu,
Agus, a-rithist, ithidh mi thu.
Se mo ghliocas - ithidh mi thu.

223

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 25/04/2008 19:01:13
The Scotsman is stooping to new lows with this nonstory. It even admits that the unionists are even engaging with anyone. No site, no hits. Does Labour's get more? Why is Labour's membership in freefall?

Why doesn't Foulkes just go home and get plastered like he usually does?
224

Calum Crubag,

25/04/2008 19:03:26
#245 - Ged a tha e math a' Ghaidhlig fhaicinn... chan eil mi gad thuigsinn buileach. Gaeilge no Gaidhlig? Agus, nach bu choir dhut a bhith bocht seach 'bacht'?

Slan leat.
225

An Beal Bacht,

25/04/2008 19:04:55
Féin-Fhìreantachd

Chan iarr iad orm ach
gal aithreachais peacaidh
nach buin dhomh
's gum faigh mi saorsa
fhiuadan nach tuig mi:

ludaradh ann an uisge
an déidh uisge tana, guinteach
am feallsanachd -

agus gun amharas chrochadh iad
an nigheadaireachd anns na nèamhan.

Dòmhnall MacAmhlaigh
226

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 19:08:00
Where have you been AM2?
Your 2OC Highland Mighty is not very good in debate, as he ignores questions he can't answer, and has an inferiority complex a mile wide.This manifests itself in overly-aggressive statements and rude and abusive reblies.
He's a boor.

244
Morris dancing SHOULD be under threat.
227

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 19:09:12
I hate reblies, especially rude and abusive ones:-(
228

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 19:09:51
249. Hey! Brownlie - did HM get promoted over us? This Nat nut says he is second in command? Alfie will do his nut!
229

An Beal Bacht,

25/04/2008 19:11:18
Calum:

an fhéile
Nach do reub an cuan,
Nach do mhill mìle bliadhna;
Buaidh a’ Ghàidheil buan.
230

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 19:20:31
251
I thought you were in the Scottish battalion...er platoon, not the Irish one?
231

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 19:43:17
253. WHat are you babbling about?
232

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 19:49:39
254
You mean you DON'T work for the boys at Chicksands...?

Well you would say that...
233

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 19:53:58
255. Chicksands?

234

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 19:58:18
256
Military Intelligence HQ.

As if you didn't know;-)
235

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 20:03:49
257. We do not deal in intelligence.
236

Nikostratos,

25/04/2008 20:10:17
An Beal Bacht all posts and union is best


Aureli, pater esuritionum,
non harum modo, sed quot aut fuerunt
aut sunt aut aliis erunt in annis,
pedicare cupis meos amores.
Nec clam: nam simul es, iocaris una,
haerens ad latus omnia experiris.
Frustra: nam insidias mihi instruentemtangam
te prior irrumatione.
Atque id si faceres satur, tacerem:
nunc ipsum id doleo, quod esurire
me me puer et sitire discet.
Quare desine, dum licet pudico,
ne finem facias, sed irrumatus.
237

Union is Best,

25/04/2008 20:27:43
259. How rude.
238

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 20:30:43
258
EXACTLY.An oxymoron.

259

I didn't know you were afraid of UIB's penis Niko.

Why?
239

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 25/04/2008 21:08:57
Ciderman, I never mentioned Lord Geordies past!!!

That come across like one of AM2's famous disconects!

Can you say sorry as well as you moan?
240

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 21:14:06
262
Evening ochone, how've ye been?
241

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/04/2008 21:20:08
Ciderman, whilst your at it, could you, on behalf of the unionist crew on here at least venture an opinion on the London Olympic fiasco, or doesn't matter if it's south of the border?

Go on, you comment on everything else, lets see if you can come up with something sensible to explain why people up here, whatever their race, colour, creed, religion or politics will have to do without just so that good causes money can go to London, now that's worth having a National Conversation on all by itself.

What do you think of the verdict delivered by that House of Commons committee?

We all know how bad unionist politicians are when it comes to counting.......especially money, so was this just another foul-up or something crooked, in your valued opinion, or any other unionist for that matter.

Why do you think it hasn't been mentioned all that much in the press up here, was it just because it's only about a few measly billions or was it just an oversight on the part of the unionist press?

Tell you what, why not get Lord Geordy to lene his mighty intelect to trying to come up with an answer if your stuck?

242

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/04/2008 21:25:32
Getting bored by the lack of any originalty on the part of unionists on here, apart from that I'm doing fine, what Nat wouldn't be, the opinion polls being what they are.

BTW conan, I am starting an appeal to all Nat's to show more consideration to the unionists on hear, they should be treated like any other endangered species in my view.

I think David Bellamy or some one like that should do a program on them whilst there is still time don't you?
243

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 21:32:18
266
Are you considering a unionist reservation?Where they could live and breed with each other without the pressure of the 21st Century interfering with their outdated beliefs?

Hmm...Larkhall?
244

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/04/2008 21:39:37
267 Larkhall, if their numbers get any less, Rockall will be big enough, but there must be proper medical facilities, i'm getting worried about Ciderman for instance, he/she/it is starting to see things that aren't there, I was accused of commenting on Lord Geordies lurid past, and I never mentioned it, the strain is beginning to tell, maybe they should try honesty for a change
245

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 21:53:26
268
Lord Geordie's lurid past?

Oh, when he fell over a wee wumman when p!ssed and resisted arrest.Is that what you mean?

It's good he's got a job now; that'll keep him out of trouble.
Is he doing it deliberately?
246

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/04/2008 21:59:01
See there you go again conan, a distict lack of tolerance toward a member of an endangered species, mind you he should be safe enough in the House of Lords, no matter what they say, there's no way the Labour party will endanger that place.

BTW, how do we know that the Lord Geordy didn't feel threatened in some way by that little old lady, after all she was on the same pavement?
247

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 22:11:36
270
I hate the wee b*ggers masel.The way they walk so effin slowly when you are trying to get past them.
And being allowed to carry weapons.You and I would get locked up for carrying rubber tipped sticks.On the street no less!
Aye she probably eyed him with malice, desiring the bottle of fine malt in his hand.
Aye thats it, he was being mugged for his whisky!
248

Gordon lying traitor scum,

25/04/2008 22:13:54
BBC Anchor Who Reported on WTC7 Collapse Early Agrees There May Be a 'Conspiracy'

YouTube
249

Eve,

Scotland 25/04/2008 22:19:29
Haven't read all of the post or all of the artcle.

BUT after reading some post by apparent unionist, I'm left wondering if someone has replaced most of the unionist with commedain.

Really reading some of there posts, I haven't laught this much in ages and I was feeling really down before I came on this page. Thank you soo much.
250

Eve,

Scotland 25/04/2008 22:23:44
Well I haven't said anything on that web site as off yet. Still tring to think about what I'm going to say. Need to plan it and double check my spelling before contrabuting.

Also I can't seem to find the time to comment on the national conversation.
251

Truely English,

25/04/2008 22:32:51
The Scots seem to have a deep fascination with the English and all things English from Shakespeare to Lord Byron and from Sir Walter Scott to J. K. Rowling and Harry Potter.

All these things help to bind our nation together into a cohesive unit for all the World to see.
252

Conan the Librarian™,

25/04/2008 22:48:47
276
To "truely" appreciate Shakespeare, one must read him in the original Klingon.
253

GM,

25/04/2008 23:08:29
call me paranoid,

but AM2 appears on a Foulkes story (you do all know that fatty actually reads these comments don't you?)...

I suspect this 'journal' has a couple of new anti-alex/anti SNP stories it is going to break in tomorrows edition -
they will be released online at about 12.30am and AM2 will be here to make the first comments.
Deliberately inflammatory comments...
then, as a few hundred folks make various postings, he'll be back, drip feeding 'racism' into the equation.

Highland Mighty (in whatever guise he chooses - so many to select from) will be in full support - despite admitting to using multiple personalities on these forums to make it look as if there's plenty of unionists agree.

I think that sums it up -
I could be wrong but we'll see.
254

Gordon lying traitor scum,

26/04/2008 08:51:10
Outspoken Arizona Senator Questions 9/11 Official Version Of Events

State Sen. Karen Johnson, R-Mesa, has come under fierce criticism for going on record with her doubts over the government's version of events surrounding the 9/11 attacks. Following a vote in the Senate Appropriations Committee on Arizona's 9/11 Memorial, Johnson told Capitol reporters "There are many of us that believe there's been a cover-up."
255

obeone,

26/04/2008 08:58:16
Cybernats! Excellent, sums up this site perfectly
256

John PM,

Edinburgh 26/04/2008 10:47:36
Considering that every story about independence in every paper generates huge amounts of interest it would be very difficult to imagine that there is no interest in constitutional change.

It takes two parties to have a conversation. The unionists are boycotting the site because they don't want to give it credibility instead they prefer a commission where the results are decided before it begins.

The Scottish public are involved with the conversation however and it is obvious the SNP's actions in Government (despite overwhelming bias in the press) is increasing support for (and interest in) independence.

The new commission will have a website as well but since the commission has no interest in discussing independence I very much doubt it will enjoy the substantial interest that the SNP Government's has generated. Those who have not yet made up their minds will find plenty of useful information on the site.

Let's face it however once you support independence there is not a lot else to discuss! (though it's enjoyable exposing the facile negative arguments of unionism). Many people don't need to visit the Government's site because they know the arguments and have already made up their minds.
257

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 26/04/2008 14:28:02
What cracks me up the most is that this buffoon of an MSP thinks the national conversation is only conducted on the Web.
Its conducted in the pubs at work and at home in newspapers everyday even in the English press and it manifests itself in every story regarding Scottish Independence even stories denying the validity of the national conversation.
The sheer stupidity and incompetance of the opposition in opposition is frankly breathtaking.
Even theyre own army of cybertrolls contribute every time they post.
258

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 26/04/2008 16:22:19
What his Lordship fails to realise is that the people of Scotland are being given the chance to engage in the political process.

Even those who do not make use of the opportunity will still feel valued having been asked for their opinion and of course, there is still over 2 years of the process to run.

£40,000 well spent if you ask me.
259

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 29/04/2008 10:33:48
280

sums up this unionist propaganda site perfectly you mean dont you??

 

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