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Tories force the SNP into policing U-turn

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Published Date: 16 January 2008
THE Scottish Government has been forced to rethink its plans for police recruitment to win support to get its first budget through parliament.
Scottish National Party ministers are set to agree to look again at police funding as well as help for small business to secure the backing of Conservatives for their financial plans.

The about-turn will be signalled today, when a report fr
om Holyrood's finance committee proposes to rethink the two policies.

Derek Brownlee, the Tory finance spokesman, yesterday won support for reconsidering the issues from the three SNP members on the committee. In return, Mr Brownlee voted with them to block most of the proposed changes to the budget made by Labour and the Liberal Democrats.

One of the recommendations from the report, published this morning, will be that the Scottish Government should re-examine the budget for recruiting police officers.

It will also recommend that ministers look again to see if they can accelerate the small business bonus scheme, aimed at helping firms with their business rates. The report's finding will be hailed as a major triumph by the Tories, who have maintained that their objective has been to exploit the minority government's position to fulfil as much of the May election manifesto as possible.

The concession on police – though there is no formal commitment on extra numbers – will be an embarrassment for the SNP. The party went into the election promising to recruit an extra 1,000 police, but was later forced to admit that it would only be able to afford 500 new officers.

Until now, Alex Salmond, the First Minister, and his colleagues have said that by "recruitment, retention and redeployment" they would ensure that 1,000 more police were on the streets of Scotland.

Last night, none of the members of the finance committee was prepared to comment on the report, which was agreed at a secret session.

However, Mr Brownlee told The Scotsman: "We published the tests by which we would assess the budget. I think we were very transparent about the way we have pursued the scrutiny of the budget process."

During May's elections, the Tories claimed that it would cost £17.4 million to recruit and train 500 new officers every year, and they promised to fund 1,500 extra police over the lifetime of the parliament.

A Scottish Government spokesman also refused to comment on the report, but said: "Ministers look forward to engaging constructively with parliament during the budget process."

The Tory move has infuriated the other opposition parties at Holyrood. One source close to the negotiations said: "The Tories have bought a very weak promise from the SNP and, on the back of that, will support the budget."

If the 16 Tory MSPs vote with the 47 Nationalists and the two Greens abstain, the budget will be passed even if Labour and the Lib Dems vote against it.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 January 2008 10:55 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

livilion,

livingston 16/01/2008 00:18:37
If the police themselves are telling us that only 5-7% of police are actually on the beat at any given time, does this much discussed 'extra' 500-1000 or 1500 new police officers mean an extra 25-50 or 75 new polis(split over four years) out detering crime ?

Tulliallan Police Training College turned out nearly 2500 police trainees last year.

Could we not perhaps be doing something about the pitifully few pcs actually on the streets and get them out of paper pushing and standing about courts for hours doing not an awful lot day after day?

We've got plenty of police they're just not doing what we need them to be doing.
2

pints,

capital 16/01/2008 03:25:46
Now how do u spell genious? For that is what the bold Alex is. He gets the Tories to support his budget by promising to look again at a pledge he made in his own manifesto. Gets rid of the greens by having them abstain while he, the wise Alex, keeps to his planned road building programme. The Labour and Liberal parties are left stuck in a corner looking like old grumpy men who get nothing in the budget for their protestations. And Alex, the magnificent, manages to get his budget passed with a minority government. How do u spell that word gemious?
3

An Beal Bacht,

16/01/2008 03:45:18
Tories force the SNP into Politics - is what it should say - and even that is wrong. The Scottish people (if we are to believe that the election wasn't fixed) forced the SNP to deal. That isn't a bad thing. The people get represented - refreshing isn't it?
4

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 16/01/2008 04:23:37
#3 Spell it DISINgenuous
5

An Beal Bacht,

16/01/2008 04:38:38
5 Mercutio, FALKIRK 16/01/2008 04:23:37:

How long did it take you to think that one up?
6

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 16/01/2008 04:46:30
#6 Are you hanging around the threads waiting to "badmouth" any comment which could be construed as denigrating to Mr Salmond.
7

Scotsman in Dublin,

16/01/2008 08:32:28
The headline is typical of the Scotsman's obsession with trying to discredit the SNP but as An Beal Bacht said already, the people get represented. Isnt this how parliment should work? Is this not better than the previous arrangment where only the two parties that chose to sidle up in bed together get any involvement in running the country.
8

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 16/01/2008 08:51:21
It's called horse trading!
9

Miss H,

16/01/2008 09:50:45
9 AM2

Surely not.
10

mr angry,

ayrshire 16/01/2008 09:55:28
#9 AM2 crap response as per normal
11

frank mcbride,

lusitania 16/01/2008 10:17:16
#12, mr angry.

Wait a little. I'm sure AM2 will be back soon with a cut & paste job. Something like, the mean deviation of the bell curve, which will explain the ingenuity of the Tories in thwarting the dastardly Nationalists and, in so doing, prove that the Union Dividend is there for all to see.

I'm sure the major source of his cut & paste is "The Reastuarant at the End of the Universe" by Richard Adams. I believe that is why he keeps returning.
12

Highland Mighty,

(Only 27% support independence, wasn't it?) 16/01/2008 10:20:16
3. LOL! Dizzy?

Is this the same 1000 NEW police that was a "top priority" promise.....which was the first to be broken?

Have the nats read the news that unemployment has FALLEN again, making the UK total the lowest since 1975? Just to remind you that Scottish unemployment is the lowest since 1974, with the employment rate one of the highest in Europe.

Oh, I know the nats want the Union to fail in any way possible so their poorly-supported, vaguely-planned and rhetoric-based alternative might gain a few % in support but it just doesn't look like its going to happen, does it?
13

Steve,

Bo'ness 16/01/2008 10:39:02
14, you're not Scottish, are you?

14

Sanny,

Glasgow 16/01/2008 11:24:24
AM2 et al.
Politics is defined as “The Art Of The Possible”. Thus far Alex Salmond has demonstrated he is a master of the art.

I have no doubt there will be occasions when he will fail, but that should not surprise anyone who has ever managed at any level. The person who never makes a mistake – never made a decision. When good managers make a mistake, s/he readily recognises it and takes appropriate action to remedy the situation.

The sign of an excellent leader is one who can steer others to come up with the ideas he wants to implement, then the accept ownership and push forward with their development. The more I watch AS in action the more my respect grows for the man and his ability.

For the record, I’m neither a member nor a supporter of the SNP. I am, however, totally opposed to the continuation of this enforced Union.
15

Queen D,

Glasgow 16/01/2008 11:35:03
Highland Mighty,time to forget polls and go for a referendum,polls have not proved to be accurate most of the time.
The only thing which might show the true wishes of the Scottish population will be a vote on independence.
It does seem to be being blocked by those politicians in favour of the union with of course,the help of a pro union press.
I would dearly like to hear the voice of the Scottish voters in a vote for independence not some poll dreamt up with careful wording to confuse and muddy the waters,just a simple question like ,'should Scotland be an independent entity? Yes or No.
Meanwhile I watch and listen in disbelief to our so called Scottish media,which supplies drivel in place of debate,( I would award BBC Scotland the gold medal in the drivel stakes)
16

BMeister,

16/01/2008 11:39:54
#14 Highland Mighty

'the nats want the Union to fail in any way possible '
Perhaps the extremist nats, but then there are extremist unionists who would no doubt be delighted to see Scotland fail if it were to become independent. Do you see Scotland as a country which would spiral downwards were independence to happen?

Seeing as how you believe everything you read in the media did you see this article the other day?

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/39New-Scots39-from-Poland-doing.3667934.jp

from this:
'The influx of people from Poland is said to be one of the main factors why the number of people in work in Scotland is at an all-time high.'

If that's the case then it's not being part of the UK which is responsible for this but rather Scotland's Polish immigrants and the EU.
17

malkster,

Scotland 16/01/2008 11:47:52
'The influx of people from Poland is said to be one of the main factors why the number of people in work in Scotland is at an all-time high.'

If that's the case then it's not being part of the UK which is responsible for this but rather Scotland's Polish immigrants and the EU.

OK I am drafting a letter to the Polish chancellor thanking him for creating all these posts to be filled.
18

BMeister,

16/01/2008 11:53:30
21 malkster
The Poles didn't create the posts, they filled them. You could thank him for providing the skilled and non-workshy workers we seem to lack though.
19

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/01/2008 12:18:52
14 Morning Voice

sad to see you got moderated on yesterday's thread after your wee breakdown.

WHy do you persist into writing febrile ravings at right angles to reality. Lower unemployment is of course good. Greater prosperity for people north and south of the border is a good thing. Control in Scotland of our own revenues, full political control and international representation by a sovereign parliament a good thing. Why do you find this all so confusing old crocus?
20

Highland Mighty,

16/01/2008 14:00:32
17. Nope. Wrong again.

I expect the next accusation that I do not exist to come on Friday, that would fit the pattern nicely. About 4pm by my reckoning.

25. Why do YOU find the democratic principle of majority rule so confusing?

27% in favour of independence, same as a year ago, yet you still try to and blame the union as the reason Scotland is not going to be independent for many decades yet.
21

Highland Mighty,

16/01/2008 14:02:14
17. Seriously, Meths, I'm not EV. Or AM2. Or Federalist. Or any of the other unionists.

Or am I?

No, I'm not.

Or am I?

No, seriously, I really am not.
22

Highland Mighty,

16/01/2008 14:33:41
28. LOL!

Ok, go with it then!
23

Ayrshire Scot.™,

16/01/2008 16:02:41
It’s the blessed Alex’s Machiavellianism that’s criminal! There should be a limit to the number of broken promises that any one politician can get away with…absolutely criminal or what? His attitude seems to be “it’s a fair cop, gov, but you can’t pin anything on me because I’ve outmanoeuvred you already!” I’m just waiting for the Salmond backlash, which will make the Blair backlash look like a picnic in Lalaland.
24

BMeister,

16/01/2008 16:19:41
#32
Hey Spacedot. Even though this is one of the occasions when you make a contribution which isn't pointless I can't take you seriously because of your fake moniker.
25

The Master,

16/01/2008 16:27:43
What I find interesting is that the Tories trusted the Nats to “look again” at police funding and help for small businesses. Can anyone here imagine the Tories trusting either Labour or the Lib Dems to “look again” at policies? What I’m driving at is that the Nats are increasingly reverting to the “Tartan Tory” image which they have fought so hard to shake off in recent times. What are the council tax freeze and the free prescription charges if not traditional right wing tax bribes? Salmond’s double dealing extends even to the Scottish electorate: he has an uncanny ability to “talk left and act right”.

I just wonder how long it will take the rank and file within the SNP to twig that, for all that he is undoubtedly a wily politician, he has failed to advance support for independence one iota (and don’t bother quoting that skewed poll which found support for independence to be at 38% by omitting to mention the option of giving more powers to the parliament). Incidentally, the question asked, with it’s reference to opening negotiations with a view to obtaining independence, was just as confusing. Not everyone has such facility with language as to be able to work out that “opening negotiations” rules out simply obtaining extra powers for the parliament. As the SNP were obviously only too well aware when formulating their referendum question, you can never underestimate the intelligence of the public.
26

The Master,

16/01/2008 17:05:16
#38 The Spook in Leith (with a supposedly invisible hard space before the word "Leith" in your moniker following your well deserved deletion in December): a happy new year to you, me old china! Hope you had a relaxing festive break and that you had time to catch up on your reading. I say this because, if you read more widely, you might just work out that Scottish Independence is a “Mickey Mouse” policy and decide to join with us unionist intellectuals. Just try asking yourself why the whole of the Scottish press and all major Scottish parties (apart from the SNP) are against it, if it’s really such a good idea!
27

The Master,

16/01/2008 17:23:33
#32 Fakey Ayrshire: well done in your foretelling of a “Salmond Backlash” which will grow to rival even the Blair Backlash! Maybe if the real Ayrshire falls under a bus (not very likely, I know, as a bus is most unlikely to take a diversion through his computer room), you can take over from him on a permanent basis some day. I’d back you as against the real Ayrshire any day!
28

The Master,

16/01/2008 17:34:28
#44 Wardog: I fully acknowledge that federalism is in place to a greater or lesser extent in many other countries and that these provide workable models which could be of benefit if appllied to Scotland and the wider country. I have no objection per se to the concept of giving the parliament greater powers, but would have to know exactly what was being proposed and give it careful consideration (as should be the attitude of anyone who values Scotland’s status as a fully integrated part of the UK). Sorry if I’m beginning to sound like a politician! What powers would you like to see transferred to the Scottish Parliament?
29

The Master,

16/01/2008 17:54:33
#45 Jackie Priest: the main reason that independence for Scotland is a “Mickey Mouse” policy is that the Scottish economy is vastly dependent on access to the market provided by the rest of the UK. This peculiar circumstance surely does not apply to other countries seeking independence. Yes, I do have a “holier than thou” opinion of those in Scotland who want independence – they either don’t have the education properly to understand the arguments or are ruled by a misguided and skewed sense of patriotism towards the national region which they inhabit.

I am not anti Scottish, but simply have more ambition for Scotland than to see it denigrate its status as an integral part of the UK for the sake of historical resonance. Independence is quite clearly a move in the wrong direction in a world of ever wider entities and I’m just waiting for the SNP leadership to tumble to that fact and force a breakaway by diehard fundamentalists within the party.
30

Miss H,

16/01/2008 18:02:07
35 Master.

The idea that more police officers on the beat and supporting local small businesses are somehow 'Tory' is a bizarre one. I think about 90% of the population would agree that these should be priorities. Doesn't matter where you are on the left or right of the spectrum, common sense is common sense.

It is certainly the case that Labour are trying to portray the SNP as right wing - and themselves as the champions of 'the poor, the weak and the dispossessed'.
There are two problems with that. 1) it ignores the concerns of the vast mass of the population who do not consider themselves to be poor, weak or dispossessed and 2) It is extremely patronising to those people who Labour do think fit in to that category.

It has been a long and at times painful process for the SNP, moving into the middle ground of politics. It involved the realisation that a political party has to address the concerns of all people whether they are rich, poor, urban, rural, left wing, right wing, black, white, men, women, young, old or anywhere in between. You have to focus on what people share, what unites them, not what divides them. It is now quite amazing for me to watch Labour walk away from the middle ground so determinedly. It's actually an act of madness. Thanks guys.
31

Miss H,

16/01/2008 18:04:38
50 Or perhaps they do not believe as you do that independence would result in England, Wales and Northern Ireland digging a trench along the border and refusing to do any business with any Scottish company ever again.
32

The Master,

16/01/2008 18:05:19
#49 Wardog: I am very unclear as to the powers which will come from the commission. I doubt that there will be any kind of meaningful fiscal independence, but wouldn’t be surprised if they find some currently reserved matters to transfer to Holyrood for the sake of generating headlines. Not that I shall be greatly perturbed if this happens – I feel that the granting of greater powers to the parliament will have little impact on Scotland’s posterity and that the only purpose of so doing is to maintain the stability of the current constitutional settlement.
33

The Master,

16/01/2008 18:20:17
#51 Miss H: the fact remains that the provision of police officers and support for small businesses were policies that were central to the Conservatives’ election manifesto to a greater extent than those of the other parties: it’s a question of emphasis. Similarly, I’m sure you’d agreed that the independence policy is more central to the manifesto of the SNP than to the manifestos of the Green Party, the SSP or Solidarity.

I take your points about Labour’s attempts to appeal to the poor and the dispossessed, but Labour knows that power in Scotland is largely dependent on galvanising the traditional working class heartland of the central belt and that the SNP has to date failed in its attempts to make significant inroads into this bedrock of its support. I’m interested by the modernising agenda which you advocate for the SNP, but wonder how long it will be until the independence policy is modernised out of existence, particularly if the party one day loses a referendum on independence.
34

The Master,

16/01/2008 18:28:54
#54 Methalions: what is wrong with my grammar? I correctly avoided splitting the infinitive by my positioning of “properly”, if that is what you are referring to. Can we both agree that anyone who spends considerable time posting on these threads by their very nature must consider themselves a “know all”? I don’t want to get into the psychology of what drives individuals to post on political discussion forums, as you would no doubt derive amusement from the exposure of my inner pysche (as well as, by implication, your own!)
35

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 16/01/2008 18:31:04
How can we have freedom of the press and the NUJ?
36

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 16/01/2008 18:39:11
59 might have been taken as off topic but it is not. If there is a bias in the media then we see posters like Master jumping on the bandwgon.
37

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 16/01/2008 18:41:59
On the report itself, I think it reflects the maturity of the 2 parties that ain't the Flib Flabs.
38

An English Voice™,

16/01/2008 18:55:39
28. 'Nail' and 'head' there, Meths. Maybe I'm the Master too...

49. There are no EU controls on taxation, that is one of the 'red lines' in the UK Europe policy.

There is nothing to stop nations and regions from varying any taxes that are devolved to them, as with income tax.

The UK economy is doing quite nicely at the mo but I think devolving tax powers in several areas will make the country a little more dynamic.

London does not need to cut CT to attract business(obviously) but income tax cuts would be most welcome as would VAT cuts with the cost of living in London of biblical proportions.

50. "...they either don’t have the education properly to understand the arguments or are ruled by a misguided and skewed sense of patriotism towards the national region which they inhabit." - My sentiments exactly. Although not quite so blunt as to upset them!

56. "...but also it has always struck me that being a small country is great, your vote is so much louder simply by statistics than it ever could be in a bigger country" - But who listens to 5m-strong countries such as Ireland or Norway when UN or EU decisions are being made?

They can shout and protest as much as they like but any opposition to the policies of the major countries (such as the UK, France, Italy and Germany in the EU and the P5 in the UN) will have almost zero impact on the final decision.

In global politics as in nature, the bigger you are, the more powerful you are.
39

The Master,

16/01/2008 18:57:26
#62 Wardog: I can say with my hand on my heart that I’ve never posted on The Herald, so I hope you weren’t implying anything! The reason is that I don’t have any time for west of Scotland types (and that even applies to Herald readers, who are no doubt a “cut above”! To all you Nats: haven’t you noticed that Scotland is as divided within itself as from the rest of the UK? Wake up and smell the mustard!
40

An English Voice™,

16/01/2008 18:59:52
63. (contd) In the Euro Parliament, the UK, France, Germany and Italy's combined vote would all but vote through any bills even if every other EU country voted against.
41

An English Voice™,

16/01/2008 19:03:12
Nope, all quiet here. I'm off!

(shame, it was actually looking like a civilised debate - apart from the tad paranoid Meths).
42

Miss H,

16/01/2008 19:14:08
57 Master - Wrong. More police and reduced business rates were both key planks of the SNP campaign. Believe me. We wrote to every small business in our constituency setting out the SNP commitment. The printer broke down half way through. It was not one of the better nights in our campaign rooms...
43

An English Voice™,

16/01/2008 19:22:59
Not much going on anywhere else.
44

™,

16/01/2008 19:38:57
Good decision by the Tories
45

Miss H,

16/01/2008 19:42:41
I don't care about being small. If we can deliver the same standard of living and social justice in an independent Scotland that the Scandinavian countries deliver that is fine by me.

 

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