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United for a Fife victory? Sir Alex puts his red shirt on Mr Brown

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Published Date: 30 October 2008
LABOUR'S campaign for the Glenrothes by-election received a boost yesterday with the public endorsement of Sir Alex Ferguson, the Manchester United manager.
Sir Alex has been a prominent Labour supporter for years, and yesterday he spoke out in favour of Lindsay Roy, the Labour candidate.

In a letter delivered to every home in the area, Sir Alex wrote: "I always tell players entering the game that be
ing a footballer is the best job in the world. Yes, it's hard work to reach the top – but not as hard as bringing up a family or running a household on a tight budget.

"With all that is happening in the global economy, clearly there are some challenging times ahead. But the Labour government under Gordon Brown has handled the situation well, and deserves support at this difficult time."

Labour also turned on Alex Salmond for making his ninth visit to the constituency, claiming the First Minister should have been busy running the country, not playing partisan politics.

Lord George Foulkes, a senior Labour MSP, also said: "You just wonder how Mr Salmond finds the time to come up (to Glenrothes] so often. He is not being paid to campaign in Glenrothes but to run the Scottish Government. Yet he is fiddling in Glenrothes while Scotland burns.

"He may not have noticed but there is an economic crisis going on and every day we hear of councils not being able to run services. But Mr Salmond seems to think his priority is campaigning in a by-election rather than doing his job for the people of Scotland."

An SNP spokesman said that they were not sure if Mr Salmond had visited the constituency eight or nine times, although only eight appeared in the diary. He added that most of these visits took place on Saturdays and two were in the parliamentary recess.

He also argued that Mr Salmond was able to do both his job of running the government and campaign in the by-election.

Mr Salmond vowed at the campaign launch, his fifth visit, to break his record of ten visits made to Glasgow East during the by-election there.

The SNP yesterday focused on the rising energy bills families face, with Mr Salmond in the constituency to claim Labour had done little to help people facing soaring fuel charges. He said the vote on 6 November gave locals the opportunity to send a message to the British government.

The First Minister said yet again that the most powerful leaflets in the election campaign were people's energy bills, as they reminded voters "Labour has done little to help them with soaring bills this winter".

He said: "The thud of massive gas and electricity bills dropping through letterboxes will echo all the way to Downing Street.

"People here, and across Scotland, are crying out for help and support with soaring household bills, and on 6 November people in Fife will have the chance to speak for the whole of Scotland.

"People here know the SNP government is on their side, working hard to help put money back in their purses and pockets. People can send a message direct to Downing Street by voting SNP."

The First Minister's visit yesterday coincided with an internal Labour appeal to its MPs at Westminster to come north for the campaign's last few days, aware that the party has caught up with the SNP but needs an extra effort to secure the seat.

It is understood Labour strategists believe they have started winning the "airwaves" and the party is gaining momentum on the news agenda – but that it does not have enough activists on the ground to make sure the voters stay with Labour.

Focus, page 28





The full article contains 634 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 October 2008 9:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Glenrothes by-election
 
1

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 30/10/2008 00:04:07
So the manager of an English team decides to support the Bean Team ?

And this is supposed to make a difference how ?
2

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 00:13:21

"Sir Alex has been a prominent Labour
supporter for years,

I wonder what this means, I would assume it
means he supports Labour policies -

. An illegal and immoral war in Iraq.
. Massive investment in WMD/Trident in Scotland
. Building no council houses in Scotland
. Boom and Bust economics
. Massive largess on the South East of England
particularly London the most subsidised
in Britain
. The annexation of 6000 square miles of
Scottish territorial waters by England
. etc .....

Perhaps he can remind the Glenrothes supporters
why these policies and more where in Scotland's
best interests. Perhaps Sir Alex is just looking
for a bit more largesse himself, a Lordship perhaps
which appears to be the ultimate goal above
all else for our 'Socialist' Labour comrades.


3

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 30/10/2008 00:16:50
Ye, Sir Alex Ferguson i can imagine people in Fife can relate to a multi million pound English premier league Manager and how he feels their pain. Lord George Foulkes well he's just plain Anti-Scottish Nulabour. Must just be a coincidence all these Sirs and Lords supporting the loathed Gordon Brown What an HONOUR for the people of Glenrothes, not
4

,

30/10/2008 00:17:25
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5

,

30/10/2008 00:17:40
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6

,

30/10/2008 00:18:05
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7

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:23:05
It looks like Mr Salmonds comparisons have gone as pear shaped as an orchard full of conferences.
8

FrancesP,

30/10/2008 00:24:21
4. Yes, I'm sure the population of Norway are absolutely furious with Alex Salmond for praising their country to the skies. Also curious that the Daily Mail claimed the Norwegian foreign minister 'heaped ridicule', and then produced two fairly mild quotes from the man that completely failed to bear out such a strong claim. Still we all know what a neutral, authoritative source the Daily Mail are, so I dare say we should all just take their word for it.

By the way is it possible that one day the Scotsman could quote a 'senior Labour MSP' without it being His Eminence Baron Sir Lord Georgie Foulkes? Is he literally the ONLY senior Labour MSP?
9

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 30/10/2008 00:24:58
Rufus
Scotland, Small North European Country with lots of natural resources and some world leading exports and a forward looking SNP Government Discuss
10

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:25:39
#9 Castaway it sounds good.

The SNP would have us believe that that is exactly like Scotland.
11

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 00:26:53
Were Hamish and David playing at lesser Hampden?

"Mr Park – who has been touted as a future Scottish Labour leader and is the Glenrothes by-election campaign manager – sought to play down the behaviour of the politicians at the match"

I doubt it.

He said: "I wasn't red-carded, the referee said, 'I think it might be an idea if you go off,' and I agreed."

Aye...Right.
12

subrosa,

30/10/2008 00:27:29
#4

I notice Norway were careful not to criticise Gordon Brown. I expect they were worried they would be classed as terrorists.

Alex Salmond has a right to point out the benefits Norway have as an independent country of s similar size to Scotland. I'm quite sure Mr Store sympathises with Scotland as I can't find any record of the Scandinavian government, back at the turn of the last century, bringing down Norwegian banks in order to bankrupt Norway.
13

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:28:27
12 Forward looking SNP Government??

How can I discuss that?

They spend all their time trying to get some ancient chessmen back, getting the saltire to fly higher than the union jack over Edinburgh Castle and trying to get Scotland to have its own entry in the Eurovision song contest.

If that is forward looking, then I am Lewis Hamilton.
14

,

30/10/2008 00:29:04
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15

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 00:29:06
What a sad apology for a newspaper the Scotsman has become.
There is absolutely nothing that is balanced in the reporting,and I hope it's circulation falls through the floor.
Day after day,we're subjected to ludicrous,
scraping the barrel promotions,of the War Criminals party.
My contempt for this paper grows by the day.
16

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 30/10/2008 00:30:07
6 Ruffus
Theres no such a thing as Scottish Labour, what you mean is the Scottish Branch of London Labour. I thought a Nulabour spin doctor like you would have got that right
17

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:30:38
Jeremy Purvis, Scottish Liberal Democrat finance spokesman, said: “Alex Salmond will be re-programming his economic sat-nav to find a new country to emulate. This slap-down from Norway should be the signal that he now needs to spend more time on policies and budgets that he is responsible for and give up the armchair punditry.”
18

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:31:26
19 who cares?

19

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 00:32:24
13
It could have been.

And that is what most NATs are annoyed at Rufus.
20

,

30/10/2008 00:33:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
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21

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:34:55
#22 Maybe it could have been.

But obviously not enough Scottish people wanted independence, hence we are part of the UK.
22

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:35:56
#23 tut tut.

When all else fails, resort to name calling.

Your mother would be proud of you.
23

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 00:36:19
The other thing that happens on a daily basis is that Rufus Ts arguments get shot down in flames.
That's not difficult mind you.
24

Shamus,

Glasgow 30/10/2008 00:38:00
It is time to end this wasteful ammount of money on the parliament building in Holyrood. In this modern day OF TECHNOLOGY Scottish MPS and MSPS CAN EASILY DEBATE IN WESTMINSTER.Democracy has become a gravy train for the idle.
25

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 00:38:38
Alfred-sorry-Rufus, just what is your problem with Nationalism?

Are you a monarchist?

A Tory?

Your ex is a Nat?

Am I getting warm?
26

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 00:44:05
24
Um...See the Scottish Government...

27

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 30/10/2008 00:45:04
25
Unfortunatly sometimes the truth can be painful, oh and it's the Union Flag not Union Jack, one thought a rabid Unionist like yourself would have known this
28

alba nach,

Tarbert 30/10/2008 00:48:55
The Daily Mail??? Aren't they the newspaper that backed Hitler? I think that says quite enough about their judgment.
29

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:51:08
#28 Conan You are about as warm as a Norwegian Iceberg.

(seems to be a few of them about today).
30

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 00:52:38
5 Rufus T. Firefly,

"Mr Store said the state of industrial decline in which the UK found itself when North Sea oil production began in the 1970s was very different to Norway’s situation"

Very correct Scotland's situation indeed
"was very different". In Scotland's case the
situation was that Britain was bankrupt,
by Labour incidentally and they appear on track
to do the same again.

"IMF may arrange a bail-out package within days
(for Iceland)– the first IMF rescue of a major economy since Britain in the 1970s."
see - tinyurl.com/4sop4g

In addition to Britain being a bankrupt state
they lucked out in that the discovered
that Scotland had massive natural resources
in terms of Oil & Gas. Knowing how massive
the wealth of this resource was and that
an Independent Scotland would accrue virtually
all of the resources the British Government
decided to completely suppress the information
in the infamous McCrone Report.

tinyurl.com/3sdrdg

"it is hard to see any conclusion other than
to allow Scotland to have that part of the Continental Shelf which would have been hers if she
had been independent all along."

"The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a
quite embarrassing degree and its currency
would become the hardest in
Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner."

Yep indeed Scotland's situation "was very different"
from Norways - Norway had and indeed still
has a government that looks after the interests
of Norwegians first and foremost
whilst Scotland was and is governed by the
self-centered British made up of Quisling Scots
who bailed out a bankrupted England and
'invested' Scottish oil revenues in building
up the economic power house of the South
East of England. Indeed even the main Oil
Company BP set up to process Scottish Oil
was/is headquartered in England bringing
with it massive corporation taxes and high
paying jobs to London.

Yes indeed all "was very different" which is
why S
31

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 00:53:02
cont.

Yep indeed Scotland's situation "was very different"
from Norways - Norway had and indeed still
has a government that looks after the interests
of Norwegians first and foremost
whilst Scotland was and is governed by the
self-centered British made up of Quisling Scots
who bailed out a bankrupted England and
'invested' Scottish oil revenues in building
up the economic power house of the South
East of England. Indeed even the main Oil
Company BP set up to process Scottish Oil
was/is headquartered in England bringing
with it massive corporation taxes and high
paying jobs to London.

Yes indeed all "was very different" which is
why Scotland has got to gain her independence
so we can look after Scottish interests first
and foremost. Especially given the fact that Scotland
still has massive oil reserves and the largest
renewable energy potential in Europe, which we
want to leverage for the benefit of the Scottish
people.

"North Sea oil will last for 100 years"
see tinyurl.com/54wl8e
Scotland to become Saudi Arabia of renewables
tinyurl.com/6fg3yk

The again of course we could just trust the British
that treacherous actions of McCrone etc will
never re-occur, but who is willing to trust them ?

"North-east of England could become
wind power 'capital city'"
see - tinyurl.com/5rvkek

"First new Oil refinery in decades to be
build in England to process Scottish oil and
provide 4000 jobs for England."
see - tinyurl.com/69rmaq

Saor Alba
32

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 00:53:59
30 Westfield please keep up.
It can be called either a Union Jack or Union Flag even when it is not on a ship.

You really are behind the times.
33

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 01:05:13
Traquir you really do hate the English dont you?

Why do you harbour such bitterness towards our friends?

Have you ever been to England? You should visit it sometime.

You will be suprised to know that the people there are very friendly and just like us.
34

,

30/10/2008 01:07:57
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35

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 01:11:26
33
Oh Rufus:-)

You like MAD magazine.(age 40+)

You like the Marx bros...possibly not age 40+.

A cynical socialist.(like the rest of us)

Do comment.Please.

You snipe so often, post what you believe.
36

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 01:17:14
38 Rufus T. Firefly,

Hmm, are you an automaton ? Whenever Unionists are
challenged with facts they revert automatically
to comfort zones like accusations of racism - rather
pathetic might I add. Nevertheless your robotic
parroting at least show an ability to learn,
you have clearly memorized the Guide on How
To Preserve the Union, congratulations.

see - tinyurl.com/4nva6a

In case you are under any doubt I and the vast
majority of Scottish Nationalists believe that
both Scotland and England are impressive
countries in their own rights who rightly
should be proud of their individual culture,
history and talent. It is unfortunate that
you appear unable to distinguish criticism
of an arcane, rotting and artificial political
Union as equating to England - says much more
about you that it does about Nationalists.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic

P.S. I'm kind of surprised that you are sticking
with your same blogging name Rufus T. Firefly
given that it is an obvious anagram
as I told you yesterday
of Furry Fife Slu t. The Fife connotation you
may be under the false believe is beneficial
to the Labour Glenrothes campaign, but I just
don't think this latest cunning ploy will work.
37

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 01:20:38
41
I'm shocked Traquir.

I thought he was impersonating the President of Freedonia.
38

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 01:22:08
34 Traquir , Alba, 30/10/2008 00:52:38

As always - an excellent post. It doesn't matter how often you point out the flaws in the unionist position and the strength of the independence argument - they'll be back tomorrow with the same p!sh.
39

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 01:22:16
42 Conan the Librarian™,

"I'm shocked Traquir.

I thought he was impersonating the President of Freedonia."

:)


Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic
40

Edward,

30/10/2008 01:22:34
Strange article about the Norwgian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Støre. From what Ive read, he isnt coming out completely as the Scottish Daily Mail suggests in attacking the Scottish Government. But at the same time it sould be remembred that it was the same Minister that instigated the closure of the Norwegian Consulate in Edinburgh, which was suspected that the Westminster government were encouraging at the time.
Its a bit strange that a Scottish Government , which works closely with Norway regarding fishing and other marine matters. Who praises Norway for its Oil fund, somehow is apparently critisised as the minister doesnt want to 'be upset to think Norway’s experience has become a source of division or strife between friends in other countries' How kind of him, but a rather strange remark. Its as if its in response to something he has been in told about, prior to the 'interview' in th Scottish Daily Mail.
Never mind Norway, when Scotland gains its independence, you will still be invited to the party
41

,

30/10/2008 01:25:06
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42

Conan the Librarian™,

30/10/2008 01:28:10
44
Lang may yer lum reek, Traquir.

43

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 01:28:25
45Edward, 30/10/2008 01:22:34 wrote:

"Never mind Norway, when Scotland gains its independence, you will still be invited to the party."

Aye - but they better bring their own bottle.
44

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 01:32:48
46 Traquir , Alba, 30/10/2008 01:25:06 wrote:

"There is no army of Unionists - it just does not make rational sense :)"

Aye - this is made crystal clear by their inability to field activists in their by-elections. Busing paid canvassers up from England really says it all.
45

,

30/10/2008 01:33:02
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46

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 01:33:08
Sir Alex, a tactical genius when it comes to football and an excellent example of how intelligence in one field doesn't always translate to another field.

as for this:

"Last night, Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy said: ‘It is now clear that Alex Salmond’s North Sea bubble has burst.’"

....a perfect example of wishful thinking.
47

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 01:33:25
47 Castaway

Great post, you also might want to ask the following
in this supposed 'partnership' of England
and Scotland:

"Q:Why is the UK (English)dominated second house desperate to keep Scotland within the UK ?"

Also interesting to compare this with other
partnership arrangements:

"In Australia the the constituent states have equal
representation - with the smallest Tasmania
with only 2.7% of the population of the largest having
the same representation - 12 senators each."

see - tinyurl.com/5gjodp & tinyurl.com/2cqnjs

"In the United States Wyoming is 1.47% of the largest State California, but both have equal
representation in the second house with two senators each."

see - tinyurl.com/b6hbt

Of course Scotland is not a state but a nation in her own right, but we are not even treated remotely comparable to a state never mind a nation !

Being ruled by one England dominated political
body (House of Commons)
is unfair enough to be governed by a second
England dominated political body (House of Lords)
is unforgiveable.

Saor Alba

48

CRAGman,

30/10/2008 01:42:18
Sir Alex Ferguson - a working class lad who supports the Labour Party's aim to give everyone a good chance in life and the ethos of a society that instils discipline along with responsible ambition.
49

CRAGman,

30/10/2008 01:44:07
# 47 - if you live in Manila then I'm not interested in your ex-pat views. Come and live here if you want to comment on Scottish matters. You're just like Sean Connery.
50

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 02:17:55
55 CRAGman, 30/10/2008 01:44:07

"# 47 - if you live in Manila then I'm not interested in your ex-pat views. Come and live here if you want to comment on Scottish matters. You're just like Sean Connery.


Aye CRAGman - these expats like Alex Ferguson should just haud thur wheesht.
51

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 30/10/2008 02:28:04
Yes "SIR" Alex supports New Labour, he has to repay them for the knighthood. Now nobody doubts he has been successful in his football career, both here and in England, you have to hand that to him. He just happens to work for the richest football club in the World, and some Scots like Foulkes, Ferguson, Brown, Darling, Murphy, Des Browne, David Cairns, Douglas Alexander and even Wee Jockeee see England as a place of milk and honey for themselves. And that is the key to this whole charade. SNP Politicians go down to Westminster and never forget what they are there for. They are representing the Nation that they are passionate about. They go to Westminster so that NO Scottish Politician will have to go down there cap n hand to beg, so their own banks wont be sold down the river, and no longer be based in Scotland. Its not that Alex Salmond couldnt get the money to fix the Scottish Banks, thats the easy bit. Its the fact that London tied his hands and made it impossible/illegal for the Government we elected to raise its own money.

Does anyone honest really believe that the Norwegan Trade Minister was got to by Westminster. Even with this political pressure he admits that Alex Salmond is correct. Alex talks about Norways savings from oil money surplus. That is a fact. The UK has spent 259 Billion Pounds of our oil money, to prop up London and a financial base that left the UK exposed to the financial collapse. Maggie and Brown demolished our manufacturing base. We dont build the Worlds ships even though Korean workers get 100 thousand a year to do that. Yes thats the average wage in Korean Shipyards. We dont make steel anymore, because london decided that it was better to buy German Steel. Our thriving coal mining Industry is merely a shadow of itself, not because theres no coal, no because London decided that we would get our coal from the rest of the world. The Distillers head office is located in London. By locating in london they pay taxes and rates and Jobs from
52

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 30/10/2008 02:31:28
By locating in london they pay taxes and rates and Jobs from a Scottish Whisky Industry in London. You and I know that you cant make great whisky anywhere except Scotland so why did London get their offices down there. Now Maggie Thatcher handed over our fishing Grounds to the EU so that any foreign trawlers can take our fish. She used our fishing as payment for acceptance into the Eu. Why isnt Scottish Fishing controlled and fished by Scottish Boats crewed by Scottish Fishermen and processed by Scottish Factory workers.

Aye sure Alex Ferguson supports New Labour. Thats because he lives in the land of plenty, made off of Scotlands resources.

Just think about Celtic playing Manchester United a few weeks ago. Alexs Team worth well into the hundreds of millions beat a Scottish Football team worth very little altogether, except to the Scottish Nation. Our Scottish Clubs struggle every year just to keep going. It doesnt matter to Scots if your team wins every championship. Its about being part of your team, and supporting them in good times and hard times because its our team. Thats what wanting Independence is all about. We want to back our Team, made up of our Folk. We will never win the World cup but we will always do well for a Nation our size. We can be prosperous, and dont need to send armies to other countries who are nothing to do with us. We should send Armies who carry Hammers,Nails,Engineers, Teachers, Doctors, Nurses and perhaps good Scottish Soldiers to protect our people.

Why would any Scottish Person with Pride want to be run by a London that has skrewed us so many times in the last 300 years?.
53

jimbob82,

calgary 30/10/2008 02:36:20
I am an ex pat. I own a house in Scotland, I visit Scotland once a year, have the bulk of my family in Scotland and damm right I have a say in Scotland.
The economy was not a devolved power. Brown and labour's incompetance is what caused this debacle and for that self rightious gloating baffoon to stand proudly and say he saved the western world is straight from the pulpit. Full of hope and faith but unprovable and far too premature. He and labour are back to the politics of fear. Britain has borrowed to bail out the banks.Britain can't afford it. The pound has rightly devalued and housing which was a bubble and has been a bubble for years has burst. Brown would have to be a complete idiot not to have seen it coming. A buddy bought an apartment in London for more than 450,000 pounds. I would not live in it. Talk about a bubble and the banks went along with it. Now Salmond is being attacked for trying to help Scotland and he has. People feel good. If Scots think they are being subsidised by England and that is what Brown and Labour are saying, then they are fools, but worse they have no dignity. Having lived and visited countries which were previously colonies, I can definately say that Britain did not spend money on these countries, it was pure take. Now visit London and see the mammouth expenditures re the olympics, underground etc and see what is spent on Scotland. It is a shame and a disgrace. Scotland is treated as a colony. The lack of work in Scotland makes Scots join the army to be cannon fodder for : Queen and Country" Look at the roads in Scotland and why have they not been improved? Try going fast between Fort William and Inverness. Wick is an expendition like going to Africa. Scots, take off your labour glasses and also realize that Alex Ferguson is a football manager, not Einstein. I remember when he joined Falkirk and I think his first game was against Dumfermline and he scored. I said he is one helluva player, but I wouldn't be asking him for an opini
54

Weegiewarbler,

Sailing And Singing 30/10/2008 02:42:01
Nice take on the ballad of SCottish Politics

reportingscotland.com

Notice the HooRald isn't allowing posts again
55

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 02:42:52
59 jimbob82,calgary

Excellent post. When you say
"visit London and see the mammoth expenditures" did
you have in mind these type of outrageous 'investments'
in the British Capital :

. £30 billion subway upgrade program
see - tinyurl.com/6sxrgv
. £5.9 billion on one London railway station
see - tinyurl.com/6yheht
. £16 billion For another London rail line
see - tinyurl.com/yphdwl
. £1 billion to upgrade an existing railway station
see - tinyurl.com/5sn8mm
. three quarters of a billion on a Dome !
see - tinyurl.com/6h6ezn
. Followed of course by yet another London regeneration project
£5 billion
see tinyurl.com/5l3jp3
. £6 billion Channel Tunnel Rail Link
see - tinyurl.com/4pg53n
. £2.5 billion -Roads just around the Docklands in London
http://tinyurl.com/5
5wh6b
. £3.2 billion For Another Tube line
see - tinyurl.com/5qjoao
. £1 billion improvement to an existing Light Rail Line
see - tinyurl.com/6q2424
. £20 billion for a Second Thames flood barrier planned
see - tinyurl.com/5uf79a
. A £4 billion greenhouse tower over Batersea power station
see- tinyurl.com/6ac8hn
. £9.3 billion for the Channel Tunnel -
see tinyurl.com/6s4vsb
. £4.3 billion for a 5th Heathrow Terminal
see - tinyurl.com/2h5hx6
. £5 billion Upgrade other London airport upgrades
see - tinyurl.com/5oe82n
. £10 billion Plans for Heathrow link to Channel tunnel
see - tinyurl.com/568dzq
. £13 billion for a third runway Heathrow runway
see - tinyurl.com/3bgdtt
. £9 billion for Brown's plans to transform Thames Gateway
see - tinyurl.com/4kr3pt
. £18 billion London Olympics (including £184 million stolen from
the Scottish Lottery)
see - tinyurl.com/olympics

Slàinte mhor
56

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 30/10/2008 02:50:00
There goes Rufus hanging heaps on us pathetic Scots. We cant do a thing right without being told we are incapable of doing anything on our own.

I can feel my back bending, and the joy of being a Scottish Person being drained out of me.

How dare I feel good about my People and my Nation?. I should have phoned Rufus in his country to ask if I can smile or hold my head high.

The people like rufus search for any articles in any Newspapers with the sole purpose of making me and every other Scot feel USELESS. Thanks RUFUS, I will cut out your quotes and photocopy them so I can ask Scottish People if they feel pathetic and useless.

Will the SNP win Glenrothes?. Who knows? We have Scottish People used to believing the dross that Television, Newspapers and Radio telling them they are pathetically weak people with some form of intellectual handicap. Thats the fight we on the Indepenent side of the fence are stuck with.

But Rufus and his ILK are quite happy that Londons MP's use Parliament like they did yesterday to have English and Scottish MP's jeer and laugh at Scottish People who dare to seek democracy for their country.

Aye RUFUS you and your UNIONISTS are right. We are pathetic and USELESS. THANKS FOR THAT.
57

Wisnaeme,

30/10/2008 02:56:21
Quote:
Labour also turned on Alex Salmond for making his ninth visit to the constituency. Claiming that the First Minister should have been busily running the country instead of engaging in partisan politics.

...and Mi Lud Foulkes sake just had to add his tuppence worth of importance.

Quote:
"You just wonder how Mr Salmond finds the time to come up (to Glenrothes) so often. he's not being paid to campaign in Glenrothes but to run the run the Scottish Government. yet he is fiddling in Glenrothes while Scotland burns."

What a melodramatic Knunt he is.

erm.... the fiddling is done down in Westmidden and it's Scotland that is having it's fingers burnt. Unless of course that the fiddling is about to have a venue in Glenrothes.

..and while we're on the subject of Westmidden and fiddlers; What did they say on the subject?

Quote:
"The First Minister visit coincided with an internal Labour appeal to it's MPs at Westminster to come north for the campaign's last few days."

Wee Eck and co campaigning and leaving the country to it's own devises. Aye, Mi Lud Foulkes sake that's terrible.

But hang on a minit.

Are not Westmidden MPs being encouraged to trot up to Scotland?
... and who will be paying their travelling costs and expenses?
... and will they be visiting in their own time or in ours?

So who will be ruining the country when those Westmidden MPs are absent from their places of employment, Mi Lud?

Uh Huh, another example of Wesmidden' within the rules of not to do as we try to do, but do as we tell you to do.

Another commendable recommendation of how gratified we should be in being a small part of the union dividend, Ah'm sure. Aye right.
.
58

donald,

glasgow 30/10/2008 04:13:18
Team GB is about as relevant to Scotland as Manchester is to Glenrothes. "Sir" Alex is a relevant to Socialism as is the GB Labour Party.
59

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 04:36:54
What no fakies here? Will my challenge go unheeded or was it too subtle? Or is it perhaps that the fakie is actually an online editor on the Herald boards tasked with discouraging Nationalist posters?
60

Royster,

30/10/2008 04:55:19
Salmond is a traitor.
61

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 05:17:14
67 Royster:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha -

Big Smile : 0 )

( I )
62

gus1940,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 06:14:32
#18

I see JP's share price is heading in the same direction as The Scotsman's circulation i.e. rapidly tending to zero.
63

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30/10/2008 06:29:02
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30/10/2008 06:31:46
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30/10/2008 06:43:57
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30/10/2008 06:49:14
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Angleland Isover,

30/10/2008 07:01:35
#57+58 Perfectly put, please post more often.
68

P Rayner.,

Wolverhampton. 30/10/2008 07:02:46
Old Alec ( Praise be to Him )Salmonds a card. Always good for a laugh, best since Benny Hill. Mind you his obesity should sound an alarm of a serious note. Ofcourse, generally fat people are regarded as non persons, but I'd hate ole Benny Salmond to become a non person. Important job here for his SNP team. Get him on a diet.
69

Angleland Isover,

30/10/2008 07:20:11
#77 T!T
70

john z,

edinburgh 30/10/2008 07:21:30
Ah, yes, the multi - millionaire Alex Ferguson, lecturing the people of Fife how to vote. What a patronising series of comments made by a man who has more money than he knows what to do with.

Labour must be desparate to get Alex to make such silly comments.

Gordon Brown, has really ruined the economy, and his borrowing is expected to ultimately reach 200 billion, which you and I and our grandchildren will be paying for over the next twenty years.

I'm old enough to remember 1976, and the Labour Government having to borrow from the IMF. Looks like Labour learnt nothing. They are taking us all to the poor house, whilst telling us how good it it.

Vote anything but Labour in Glenrothes, to show the defunct English Government how angry you are at the mess they have created. Brown lies that it is about the global economy, but it is on his watch that we have personal debt in the UK higher than any other country. Ever.

Brown, a very sub prime minister.
71

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 07:23:35
#82 John Z

Ah, yes, the multi - millionaire Sean Connery, lecturing the people of Fife how to vote. What a patronising series of comments made by a man who has more money than he knows what to do with
72

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 07:25:01
As ever, the real question is how many neeps can Salmond cultivate in the furrow between his chins?
73

Jimmy Le Pie,

30/10/2008 07:26:11
#84

When did Sean Connery tell the electorate of Glenrothes how to vote??
74

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 07:29:11
Hey Tin Man, Sean Connery says he will move back to Scotland from The Bahamas once Scotland becomes independent.

Thats a good enough reason for people to vote for pro unionist parties.
75

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 07:31:41
#86 When did Sir Alex Ferguson tell the rest of the world to drink Japanese Whisky?
76

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 07:37:38
Comparing Scotland with Norway is like comparing Alex Salmond with Michele MacManus.

A lot of the physical characteristics are the same, but thats where the similarity ends.
77

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 07:39:44
#91 six hours of sleep is more than enough for me Spook.
78

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30/10/2008 07:44:05
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Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 07:44:42
And by the way spook I went to the same University that you go to.

Mind you in my time, you needed real qualifications to gain entry.

These days, as is obviously clear in your case, anybody can get in.
80

Rodster,

Glasgow 30/10/2008 07:48:06
For once I doff my hat to the unionists and Labour in particular .
This labour government continuing the policies of their heroes The Tories continue a monetarist policy that is based solely on house prices and credit card debt.
The entire thing goes "breasts up" and they manage to push the blame on to the SNP marvellous!!!
UK PLC is the biggest debtor nation in the world, yet the unionists manage to spin this as Scotland is too poor to be independent.
Brown & co screwed the Scottish banks but they along with their media pals deflect the blame into, Scotland is too weak ,too poor etc .
Brown has had to go cap in hand to amongst others the Chinese to beg money for GREAT BRITAIN what next a Lord Chow en Li rewards for supporting the corrupt Labour Party?
You have to admire them , despise them and loathe them for being Uncle Toms but admire their nerve.
for centuries Scotland's biggest enemy has always been our own Quislings .
Today is no different and hopefully in years to come Brown , Murphy , Alexander etc will be viewed in the same light as Monteith and the other traitors of Scotland's Independence struggle.
81

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30/10/2008 07:50:24
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The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 07:54:25
#98

Tripe.

Please re-write your comment, but with acurate facts.
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30/10/2008 07:55:56
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30/10/2008 07:59:06
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bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 08:00:04
Will Sir Ferguson be proclaiming his support for a GB football team, to the detriment of the Scottish national team to the electorate of Glenrothes?

Well at least that would be consistent with his support of the GB Liebore Party, to the detriment of Scotland’s national interest.
86

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:00:22
#86 Le Pie

It was a 'humourous retort', monseur. Sorry if you found it challenging. Both Sir Sean & Sir Alex have mouthed-off to the press about their political affiliations several times, but at least Alex pays tax.
87

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:01:19
#104 Spanners

Morning, Spanners.
88

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30/10/2008 08:01:29
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30/10/2008 08:02:37
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The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:05:41
108 supersynchmaserospanners

About 9%. How much do you think?
91

TWC,

Ayrshire 30/10/2008 08:07:53
Why is this important he doesn't live here. He is one of those very few like MPs, Spotsmen etc who benefit from the centralisation of power and funds.
Give Scotland control of it's own purse.
Which of Labour's Scottish policies convinced him to support Labour?
92

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30/10/2008 08:08:22
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Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 08:10:27
#103 Business Organisation and Economics was what it was called then.

That was when half the uni was in the Grassmarket.
94

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30/10/2008 08:10:34
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30/10/2008 08:10:47
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P Rayner.,

Wolverhampton. 30/10/2008 08:12:45
Ah, Sir Sean, Sir Sean. A laugh a minute Sir Sean. Thinking about it, what a great double team along the lines of Morecombe/Wise, Two Ronnies.. . . Sean and Benny Salmond. The Sean and Benny Show. In fact ole Sean could really do the Fastest Milkman in the West. I think my Laughometre would really crack up. God what a couple of comics.
97

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30/10/2008 08:14:23
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The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:15:54
117

Take the red pill and join us in the real world
99

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:18:45
I want a head-to-head between the two sirs at E. Fife football ground.
100

TWC,

Ayrshire 30/10/2008 08:19:05
117 sm 7531/2,30/10/2008 08:14:23

You take the red pill and leave New Labour.

No Policies for Scotland
No policies for redistribution of wealth
No policies for Old Age Pension support
101

,

30/10/2008 08:19:40
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30/10/2008 08:20:02
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Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 08:23:31
#118 Spook, it certainly feels like it was 1934 that I was there!
104

P Rayner.,

Wolverhampton. 30/10/2008 08:24:04
117, I'll leave the pills to you and Benny.
105

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:29:47
#123 superparcelospanners

Ho, ho, ho. You can get one of those comedy jobs that are on the go at the BBC.
106

brownlie,

30/10/2008 08:29:55
125 Rufus

Is it just a coincidence that your name means red-faced - something you have in common with SIR Alex Ferguson and LORD Foulkes?

Sir Alex has been away from Scotland so long that he probably thinks old Labour still exists and Foulkes does not even know who he is at the best of times.
107

P Rayner.,

Wolverhampton 30/10/2008 08:31:12
120. Unless you want a head to head of the Glasgow interpretation I wouldn't advise a head to head between the two sirs. Ole Sean can hardly stand on two legs and when he does he does so only after emerging from the haze of alcohol. Thankfully really. He's hardly the full ticket, unless you get him on gold tops.
108

Jay Kay,

30/10/2008 08:33:42
"Calls grow to save autistic Scots hacker from threat of US prison"

Funny were not allowed to make comment on the plight of this unfortunate soul who is being offered up to the Americans on a plate. IF Brown and Co. wanted to strengthen their cause and increase the number of voters next week I would imagine that saving this poor sap from extradition would be a good thing.

The American government should bloody well give this guy a medal, they are spending billions on illegal wars around the globe yet a so called amature hacker can get right into the heart of their defense system???

If this guy had been a legitimate terrorist he would have disabled their whole system on a more permanent basis. How stoopid is the American government well I would have to say pretty f**king dumb if they the most sophisticated computing system in the world can be broken open but this guy.

But instead our bloody government just caves in to the yanks and is about to ship him out, to serve a potential 40 years in the nick and for what, for looking for the evidence that maybe, just maybe the American government may have some info on UFO's, that pretty f**king lame even for Americans.

109

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30/10/2008 08:39:44
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Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 08:40:11
Mr Store said very little oil and gas revenue goes to the Norwegian exchequer, with the money instead going into "a pension fund that will be used for our children and grandchildren."
Arguing that comparisons between Norway and Scotland have some clear limitations. "Norway has been an independent state for more than 100 years.
We started with major investments in oil and gas in the early 1970s and it was only in the late 1990s that it went into surplus.
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30/10/2008 08:41:11
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30/10/2008 08:41:46
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30/10/2008 08:44:42
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Suomi,

Salo,Finland 30/10/2008 08:46:55
When Labour produce wealthy football managers and their supporters start to misrepresent reality,then we know that the SNP must be doing rather well in Glenrothes.Alec Ferguson clearly does not understand this:
1) People are concerned about heating their homes,rising prices,unemployment and home repossessions.An SNP government are doing everything in their power to help people with these concerns.Labour are doing absolutely nothing.

2) If the Scottish parliment had the powers of an independant country,the Scottish government could do much more.Independant nations (such as Norway and Finland) control all of their nations wealth and as a consequence they can deliver better health care,better public transport (than Scotland) and free education(in Finland for everyone including foreigners).Since they are independant they have protected their Banks.The Banking sustem is stable and all Scandanavian countries are predicted by the IMF to avoid recession(unlike the UK).Of course Scotland cannot currently be compared with Norway (one of the richest nations in the world) since Scotland is not yet independant.In every other way it is comparable.

3) An SNP MP at Westminster will speak out poowerfully on behalf of the concerns of Scottish voters.This has been demonstrated and when you compare this with the invisability of many Labour MP's,there is no comparison.

I would not worry about Alec Ferguson,his opinion is no more important than anyone else.At the Crewe and Nantwich by election,Labour produced the guy the Vicar in Emmerdale Farm (Ashley I think) It didnt help very much.
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30/10/2008 08:48:34
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The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:49:52
#142 smetc

Nothing to do with me, mate.
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Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 08:52:28
Anglo-Scot Sir Alex Ferguson is fully entitled to express his support for, and contribute regular personal donations(as he has admitted in his autobiography)to the Labour Party.

According to Sir Alex's biographer he is one of the highest paid, racehorse owning, football managers in the world! Sports writers believe he is a multi-millionaire although he always denies this claim?

He could best be described as a champagne socialist!

You are about as likely to see Sir Alex supping in the local miners welfare club in Glenrothes as you are to see Peter Mandelson and George Osborne going Doon the Water for a day out!
118

brownlie,

30/10/2008 08:52:39
142 sm753

Given the anonymity afforded by the internet how do you know who you are debating with?
119

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 08:53:06
#145 Suomi

Only managed to read point 1).

Absolute tripe. Please re-wite that with accurate facts.
120

John south of Soutra,

30/10/2008 08:54:20
Just had a look at the headline - and thought that came to my mind was "Who cares" if we start taking political advice from Football Managers then we are truly doomed
121

David MacVicar,

web 30/10/2008 08:54:56
Rufus T. Firefly,
30/10/2008 01:05:13
"Traquir you really do hate the English dont you?"


He never said anything against the English whatsoever.
You lost the debate - totally. You completely failed to counter anything he actually stated.
Instead you attacked the character of the poster - like a spoiled little tyke.

Game, set, and match Traquir.
122

scottish person,

paisley 30/10/2008 09:04:40
What has norway got to do with the story about fergie. Remember Michelle Mone the uplifting one stating that if the SNP mon in 2007 she would quit Scotland for ever. Did she not just buy a new house in Thornton Hall outside East Kilbride, to my reckoning still a part of Scotland.

Is this a NEWSPAPER or a platform for deranged unionists like firefly.
123

Alan B,

30/10/2008 09:08:29
Alex Ferguson endorsed labour when labour came to power. Look what we got. We got the most corrupt government in living memory, with police investigations, dodgy donations and breaking their own rules of party finance.

No matter whether you support the war with Iraq or not. What is clear is Blair lied.

With the economy, labour under Browns mgt have run the economy into the ground, laiden with debt, breaking all the commitments and promises he made to run the economy prudently. If he did not lie he was completely incompetent.

In scotland Brown has bounced us into a manufacturing recession in the late 90s, a full blown recession in 2001/2002. And after massive house price inflation leading to huge personal debt along with huge public sector deficits we are bounced us into another recession.

So alex, while you know a think about football, you advice to vote labour over 10yrs has been pretty bad advice. As such when you are in a whole and look gullible for you past political advice, stop digging.

124

Alan B,

30/10/2008 09:11:22
#danielrober

Yes very interesting that a life long labour supporter endorses labour having done so in the past.

Great manager, but if we really follow celebs and vote for who they want, no wonder we get in a mess.
125

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 09:16:13
#159 Alan B

'We got the most corrupt government in living memory'

Now, now, Alan B, that's unfair - the government that preceded them did very well at corruption, too.

I would imagine that with our 'culture', celebrity voting intentions are of the greatest importance...

'I'm a Celebrity Voter - Get Me to the Polling Station', anyone?
126

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 30/10/2008 09:17:55
Okay #153 (Tinman) you can call my first point tripe if you wish.However,the feedback on the doorsteps in Glenrothes does indicate that voters are concerned about fuel poverty,increased prices,home repossessions and unemployment etc.During a recent visit home,I also found people who were concerned about such matters in three regions (Borders,Fife and Highland).These voters did not consider such matters to be tripe.

The SNP's contribution to helping people with such concerns is fact.I'm not going into the usual listing since I need to do some work but the measures introduced have been well documented and can examined by any independant minded person.Labour (who control) most of Scotlands income) have knocked back many suggestions by the Scottish government(such as a fuel regulator tax) that are highly popular among the Scottish electorate.If anyone wants the scottish government to do more then give the parliament the power to make more decisions in Scotland and control of all of Scotlands money.I would argue for that,irrespective of which political party was in power in Edinburgh.

As winter approaches,I predict that the voters in Glenrothes will become inceasingly focused on the issues that I have reffered to.The SNP have a sensitivity to such matters and the voters know this. I suspect that this is why Labour are wheeling in football managers.Oh well thats politics.I have been in this game far too long to worry about footballers being used in this way.
127

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 09:20:27
#162 Soumi

Your first point was tripe. Please re-write it with facts rather than dogma.
128

Scotsbloke,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 09:24:25
159- "Most corrupt government in living memory"

I pressume you are under 11
129

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30/10/2008 09:25:31
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brownlie,

30/10/2008 09:29:21
164 The Tin Man

Are you serious suggesting that it is tripe or dogma to state that people are concerned about fuel costs, price rises, unemployment and home re-possessions?

Why do you think that senior Labour MPs only face hand-picked audiences?
131

Publius,

London 30/10/2008 09:34:03
#165 MacGillicuddy

How about a deal between Labour and the SNP? Labour won't use first rate football managers with no connection with Glenrothes if the SNP don't use second rate actors with no connection with Glenrothes?
I'm starting to think that Labour might hang on to Glenrothes. The SNP must be getting worried if cybernats get up in the middle of the night to pour personal abuse on anyone who disagrees with them!
132

Ananurhing,

30/10/2008 09:35:44
There you have it, good people of Glenrothes! You have been reminded by your betters of what is good for you, and who has your best interests at heart.

By Sir Alex Ferguson KBE,winner of cups and slayer of the English(language)
and,
Lord George Foulkes, scourge of policemen and jumper of old ladies.

Now doff thy caps, and remember thy place....if thou knowest what's good for thee.
The Ermine Vermin has spoken!
Now off you pop and don't rock the boat now, d'you hear? There's a lot more at stake here, than you understand! arf arf!!
133

Alan B,

30/10/2008 09:38:30
#161 The Tin Man

"that's unfair - the government that preceded them did very well at corruption, too."

I think labour have far surpassed any open corruption of the last tory government.

Largely that is due to the rules of openess over financing political parties. Labour brought in laws round political donations and loans, and have proceded to break them.

Under the tories there were few rules round declaring donations and donations from overseas so did not break the rules.

Tory sleaze tended to be isolated individuals. Like the cash for questions. The 2 that went to jail did so for perjury, Archer because of covering up a sex scandal.

So while the tories were quite untrustworthy as individuals we never had so much corruption going right the top in such an open way. Prime ministers being investigated by the police, with cash for honours, quite a few of the deputy leader candidates last yr mired in dodgy donations (even the one that won). Around the same time we had something like 600G knowing accepted by labour via intermediaries so to avoid declaration by the donar breaking the law in the process and only a scape goat resigning.

And in scotland we have had 2 leader resigning for financial scandals, with both due more to the cover ups.

One thing i did liked about the tories atleast 2 of them went to jail for breaking the law.

Even the attack on the BBC over hutton was a labour attack on the freedom of the press to investigate labour dodgy dealings.
134

Publius,

London 30/10/2008 09:40:29
#145 Suomi

You assert that Finland is an independent country. Finland is only independent in tne narrow legal sense. In practice Finland is an economic satellite of Germany and has been since it started shadowing the old D-mark. And before then it was a satellite of the old USSR.
135

brownlie,

30/10/2008 09:40:57
171 Publius

Great point - you will probably have noticed, like me, that only "cyber-Nats get up in the middle of the night to pour person abuse on any-one who disagrees with them" whereas unionists such as BTO and Rufus post restrained and refined postings regarding the positive benefits of unionism.
136

Alan B,

30/10/2008 09:42:45
#danielrober

You posted it was interesting Freguson endorsing labour.

I replied it was hardly surprising a life long labour supporter who has previously endorsed labour, endorsing them again.

No one is doubting that Ferguson is not a great manager so the rest of you post is irrelevent. And off course he is a celeb. All famous footballers are. As are all famous sport people. Anyone in the public eye is a celeb.
137

brownlie,

30/10/2008 09:46:25
177 Publius

Does that mean that if Germany were to be involved in an illegal invasion - it could happen - or in nuclear weapons, that Finland would have to go along with it and share some of the costs?
138

Alan B,

30/10/2008 09:46:36
#178 Publius

That is stupid. Because a countries has an exchange rate that tracks another does not mean it is not an independent country.

France also tracked the DM from the early 80s with the ERM. So you better tell the French they lost their independence in the early 80s.

What about all the countries that joined the euro are they no longer independent either. As they have gone much further than tracking a currency but actually share one.
139

Alan B,

30/10/2008 09:53:39
#Publius

Oh and Nigel Lawson tracked the DM for a couple of years bank in about 87/88 (something like that anyway) so good to know that the uk ceased to be independent and part of germany for these yrs.

140

Ananurhing,

30/10/2008 09:57:46
#177 Publius

So Finland didn't secede from Russia in 1917, and the winter "Sausage War" of 1939, repelling Russian invasion never happened?

I've been there, and can assure you the Finns are proud of their independence, and remember the sacrifices made to acheive it.
141

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 30/10/2008 10:08:11
Dear Tinman #162 I think that the voters would be rather upset to learn that their concerns about fuel poverty,rising prices is dogma,rather than a gennuine concern.The efforts of the Scottish government might be called dogma but I have met people who appreciate the efforts of the SNP to help them.I think that we need to agree to disagree.Thats my final word on this one.I notice that others are taking up the issue of voter concern on the doorstep.

Regarding the comment from #177 that Finland is only independant in a narrow legal sense,this a big surprise to my Finnish wife.However,I will take for Scotland that narrow legal sense of independance since it allows the Finns to spend all of their money on what the electorate want.This has resulted in free education,better health care,a clean environment,excellant public transport,affordable homes,a growing economy and a stable banking system.They are also predicted by the IMF to avoid the recession that is starting to hit the UK. I will accept that for Scotland.To get back on topic,I believe that voters in Glenrothes would like that as well.

I will leave this debate about Alec Ferguson to others.Unlike some of the proffesionals on this site,I do not have unlimited time.




142

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 30/10/2008 10:09:03
Sir Alec and indeed most of the prominent Labour supporters and politicians urge for the "working classes" to vote Labour.Of course they know the pain of poverty when they have to suffer living in their mansions reading their bank statements etcwondering where the next million is coming from or the next trough or junket is to participate in
143

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 10:09:13
He's also been lined up to front a British football team which could undermine our footballing independence with Fifa so it is pretty obvious that the Noble Knight of the non existant British Empire no longer puts our country first. No shock then that he supports the forelock tugging Brit Labour party which sold it's political soul to get power and then didn't know what to do with it!
144

Calum10,

30/10/2008 10:16:33
SNP CUTS YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS

That is the message of streets of Glenrothes.

You don't need to be a knighted fool to understand that.
145

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30/10/2008 10:16:54
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Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 10:19:05
At least he has had the decency (unlike Gordon Brown) not to tell us "that he feels our pain" due to rising cost of food and energy.
We can't see him setting the thermostat down a couple of degrees and taking a half hour off the timer for his central heating.
147

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 10:25:20
#187 Calum

SNP KEEPS YOUR BILLS THE SAME

LIB DEMS WILL CUT YOUR TAXES

That's reality.
148

Publius,

London 30/10/2008 10:27:01
A lot of comments on Finland. Herewith my reply to 180, 181, 182 and 183.
(1) Finland became independent from Russia in 1917 because Russia disintegrated amid revolution. (Ukraine, the Baltics and several other states became independent too, until the Soviets reconquered them.) Between 1917 and 1922 Finland had its own Red-White Civil War. The Communists were defeated by a former Tsarist general (Marshal Mannerheim). Many died in Mannerheim's prisons leaving a legacy of bitterness that lasted almost to the present day.
(2) Finland performed valiantly in the Winter War with Russia (1939-40) but was forced to sue for peace and lost a lot of territory near Leningrad. From 1940 to 1944 Finland subordinated her foreign policy to Germany. A second short war with Russia (1944) followed and Finalnd was forced to surrender more territory included islands in the Baltic and Petsamo on the Arctic Ocean, thus losing her outlet to the Artic. Finland was also forced to give the USSR a military base on the coast facing Sweden.
(3) From 1945 onwards Finland was an economic and political satellite of the USSR - forced to trade with the USSR on terms set by the USSR and to stay neutral-veering-towards-the-USSR in the Cold War. Finalnd also had to lift the restrictions on the Communist minority. From 1945 until the collapse of Communism Finland had a large pro-Soviet Communist party. Relative to the size of Finland, this was the largest Communist Party of any non-Communist country in Europe and it helped to keep Finland aligned with the USSR.
(4) When Communism and the USSR began to weaken Finalnd aligned its currency to the D-mark, thus returning to the near-satellite status she had with Germany in 1917-1918 and again in 1940-44. Finland simply followed Germany into the Euro.
(5) With regard to the UK shadowing the Euro when Lawson was Chancellor, the UK effectively subordinated monetary policy to Germany, thus reducing the UK's freedom of manouvre.


149

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30/10/2008 10:28:17
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150

Alan B,

30/10/2008 10:29:46
#sm 7531/2

Alex Ferguson had his chance as scotland manager in 86 after Stein died. After struggling to beat Australia to qualify with a good squad we had a very poor world cup. It was not Fergies finest hour as the teams were a shambles despite a good squad.

He did not seem to have control or respect of the players and put out some weird teams. Dalgleish walked out on the team under Fergi and would not go to the world cup despite playing in the european cup final at that time and liverpools best player. Souness fell out with Fergi in the middle of the world cup and was dropped for the last of the 3 games in our short campaign. And he was the captain.

And he froze Cooper out the team despite being our best player in qualifying. When he was dropped for away games in that qualifying campaign we struggled. When Cooper played in the qualifiers we took 3 goals of both Iceland and Spain. It was Cooper that transformed us when he came on against Wales for the last 20mins and was our best player after coming on with us winning the game when he scored the penalty. And then against Australia Cooper scored the freekick that took us to Mexico. Fergi dropped Cooper and played Steve Nicol a right back on the left wing.

Begin a tremendous club manager does not necessarily mean you will do well as a national manager.

151

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 10:30:00
#183 Suomi

I am not a Labour supporter, but even I know that Labour have taken steps to alleviate fuel povery in the past, which makes your first point a load of tripe.

The SNP are happy to see the eco power subsidy we pay on our utility bills spent subsidising windmills, rather than pensioners.

The SNP have absolutely no intention of raising taxes to further subsidise pensioners fuel bills.
152

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30/10/2008 10:31:03
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153

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 10:31:15
#191
Lol!
154

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30/10/2008 10:33:26
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Yeah1,

30/10/2008 10:37:13
#37

"Who gives a monkey's what Ferguson says ...he's living the life of a multi millionaire in deepest engerland and does not give a sh!t about Scotland".

Come on lets face it - Labour are not alone in getting support from a high-profile multi-millionaire who doesn't even live in Scotland - The SNP aren't exactly slow to wheel out Connery whenever they get the chance are they.

Perhaps you would also agree that you don't 'give a monkey's' about what Sean Connery says too - considering he is also 'living the life of a multi millionaire' abroad? Or is he different because he supports the SNP?
156

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30/10/2008 10:37:21
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 10:38:11
#sm 7531/2

Don't get me wrong I would give him another go as scotland manager if we had the chance. But he would not take the job.

His pedigree was just alittle better than Roxbourgh :)(or Brown) who we ended up with when he left the scotland job and took over at Man U.


158

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30/10/2008 10:41:16
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 10:42:47
#The Tin Man

As fuel poverty mainly hits pensioners, you have too look at what labour have done for pensions etc.

Labour have been attrocious for pensions in general destroying the whole pension system and not making the reformed necessary despite having a good economic climate that would allow for the changes necessary.

Do you remember Browns first increase for pensioners. It was so badly ridiculed even by his own party that he had to apologise.

Brown has starved pensioners of cash by directing cash to low earning families. A political choice. But one that hits the most vulnerable.
160

Old Cartha Boy,

30/10/2008 10:44:16
Alex Ferguson and Lord (Romanov's committed to Hearts) Foulkes - the SNP must be wetting themselves at such big guns being fired against them!

And have you see pictures of the Labour Candidiate? If there is a register somewhere for dodgy looking characters, he's at the top of that list!
161

Alan B,

30/10/2008 10:47:51
#sm 7531/2

Was not too bothered about Smith leaving as I never really rated him. Kept getting Rangers humped in europe. It was only when McLeish took over that i had any regrets about Smith leaving. But McLeish did alot better than I thought he would.

Really do not understand scotland not going for Jim McLean in his prime after 86 instead of Roxbourgh. I mean look what he did in 87 with Utd getting them to the final of the UEFA cup. (And would have had Utd in the final of the European cup if it had not been for the bribery scandal in the semi with Roma in the early 80s.)
162

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30/10/2008 10:49:57
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Yeah1,

30/10/2008 10:50:28
#201

"True we couldnt afford him at least not while we are in the union."

Don't be ridiculous - even if Scotland could afford Ferguson he wouldn't become the Scotland manager. Why on earth would he leave (possibly) the biggest club in the world where he has a chance to win major honours every year, for a second-rate country which will never win any major honours and will struggle to even qualify?

#201

"What happened with Walter Smith? why did he leave when he was doing so well?"

Because he wanted to become the Rangers manager again of course.
164

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 10:51:58
#202 Alan B

...And fuel payments to pensioners...
165

Alan B,

30/10/2008 10:53:02
#sm 7531/2

Think Mclean probably had a fall out with the sfa. Remember he was Steins assistant until Fergi took over.

But the choice of Roxburgh and Brown were a joke. Neither had managed at any decent level. Really cannot understand either of them being selected.
166

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30/10/2008 10:53:35
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Edward,

30/10/2008 10:54:24
I dont mind Football managers getting involved in politics after all they are human to and entitled to their opinion.
But what I find unacceptable is a well paid (some would say very well paid) manager, who lives in (or rather near) Manchester telling the people of Glenrothes on how they should vote. After all he doesnt have to live with any consequence of a bad choice as he doesnt live here. Its also disapointing that Alex Ferguson is going down this route of supporting Labour in Scotland and being associated with the GB Olympic Football team, which further convinces that he is completely devoid of the reality of the political map of Scotland (ie More Scots support the SNP and the idea of independence than before and Scots as well as the SFA are against a GB team in Football).
Its not a Red shirt he should be wearing but a hair shirt for being so out of touch!
168

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 10:55:39
#208 Alan B

Remember that we, ourselves, have created a society where it is acceptable for the younger members of families not to have any responsibility for looking after the elder members of their own family.

Pensioners freeze, and we blame the government. Says more about us than the govcernment, really.
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30/10/2008 10:56:11
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30/10/2008 10:57:01
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Yeah1,

30/10/2008 11:01:13
#210

"Do you think he would leave Man U to become the England manager if he were offered the job at the right price?"

No.

"Would Man U still win major honours every year without him? and wouldnt Scotlands fortunes improve with him?
and isnt that the idea behind getting the best managers possible at whatever the cost?"

Yes and yes and yes. But he wouldn't want to become Scotland manager would he, so its irrelevant.

172

Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:01:50
#208 The Tin Man

"And fuel payments to pensioners"

Fuel payments were good. But personally I do not like the way Brown tries to bring everyone into the welfare system. Payment such as this you have to apply for (i would imagine) and that means that people have to be aware of what they are entitled. As you know the system brown has brought in general with the welfare state means it is complicated and people are not necessarily getting what they are entitled.

I would like a generous pension system. I think Brown came in at an ideal time to reform pensions as he had alot of money kicking around. He has shirked all hard decisions to reform the whole pension system and the mess we find ourselves in.

In some ways it is because it is the only thing that really i am concerned about personally. While i am in my late 30s the whole pension mess and not planning for the future is dreadfully short term. It does concern me about how we can really fund you own pension. I worry for people that are worse of than myself and how they will cope.


173

TWC,

Ayrshire 30/10/2008 11:01:56
Remember the New Labour plan is never to actually discuss Policies for Scotland, so we must assume that the press have the same objectives.
It is similar on TV their target appears to be a drip drip drip of wee holyrood failures but absolute avoidance of any questions about Labour policy.
ANd no discussion of Scottish funding which lies at the bottom of ALL Scotland's problems.
VOTE ANYBODY BUT LABOUR
That's how bad I think they have become.
174

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 11:02:58
Castaway # 11

Maybe Salmond could go to Oslo with his begging bowl next year instead of all the way to Dubai with it?
On second thoughts he is probably better going somewhere no one has heard of him!
175

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 11:03:36
#211

"what I find unacceptable is a well paid (some would say very well paid) manager, who lives in (or rather near) Manchester telling the people of Glenrothes on how they should vote. After all he doesnt have to live with any consequence of a bad choice as he doesnt live here."

I assume you would also find it unacceptable that a well paid actor who lives in the Caribbean (Sean Connery) should tell the people of Scotland how they should vote too? After all he doesn't have to live with the consequences of a a bad choice either since he doesn't live here.
176

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30/10/2008 11:05:07
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30/10/2008 11:08:42
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Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 11:10:40
Jonas Gahr Store said, "it took three decades for the country's investment in its oil and gas sector to reap dividends and hardly any of the proceeds are used to prop up the economy, as they would in a separate Scotland." ""comparisons between Norway and Scotland have some clear limitations, Norway has been an independent state for more than 100 years."

He continued, "The Norwegian banks from the outset held a very high standard and the Norwegian government has not bailed out any banks."
Unlike Salmond's profligate friends in the Scottish banking sector who have had to be bailed out by the UK government.

179

TWC,

Ayrshire 30/10/2008 11:15:03
I'm still not going to vote for Labour cause the've had their chance and they screwed up.
I' rather be poor than let somebody else handle my money and give me pocket money.
And I don't like Alex Ferguson.
180

Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:15:44
#212 The Tin Man

"Remember that we, ourselves, have created a society where it is acceptable for the younger members of families not to have any responsibility for looking after the elder members of their own family.

Pensioners freeze, and we blame the government. Says more about us than the govcernment, really. "

To a large extent that is very true.

But if we as a society and the government we elect do run with policies purely to get re-elected and not to put in a long term pension system to protect the vulnerable and ensure pensioners have money to spend, the you have to blame that governement aswell as society.

When people voted labour most do not know the ins and outs of politics and economics they exected the government to do what is right and that means creating and running a system whereby pensioners are protected. That labour have been so vindictive towards pensioners and pensions is something i do not think the general public really are aware of and the serious mess pensions now are in. It only get reported when the s*** really hits.

Part of the problem with voting for a government to protect pensions and pensioners is we only had an option within the uk of 2 pretty poor parties.

While i have never voted labour i really did not expect with their reteric that they would be quite so bad for pensions. Raiding pensions. Justifying immigration as a way of paying future pensions.

With regard to families protecting their own elderly i agree. But again government have to take some alot of responsibility. Houses are so small that it means taking in additional family member is not always feasible. The price of housing makes the whole issue worse. With so much land why does scotland have to follow the english route to tiny housing in general and property as a commodity.

Add to that the failure of government to deal with north south divides means so many people move away for work. And build new families further afield. The tebit get on yo
181

TWC,

Ayrshire 30/10/2008 11:16:14
BTW this link keeps screwing up my computers performanc e, anybody else getting a problem?
182

Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:16:27
... The tebit get on your bike economic philosophy of both the tories and labour has helped destroy the family unit.

So while i agree with you generally about society the problem is the government reflects society and also tends to makes societies problems worse.
183

Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:16:49
#TWC

find it locks quite often
184

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 11:18:10
Peter Grant , SNP candidate for Glenrothes is quoted as saying,“I don't want to spend any more time down there (Westminster) than I have to. I would be homesick after more than that,”

It appears that the SNP are taking the electorate of Glenrothes for "granted." Did he tell Salmond of his plan prior to his selection as candidate there? Sounds like an excuse to top up, handsomely, his pension at the expense of the people of Glenrothes who will be unrepresented while Peter Grant has his snout in the trough.
185

Ugly George,

30/10/2008 11:21:14
192 Alan B
"Begin a tremendous club manager does not necessarily mean you will do well as a national manager."

I think that a lot of people have forgotten that Alex Ferguson was not an immediate success when he went to Man Utd. Despite spending loads it took him 7 years (I think) to win the league and many said that he only saved himself from the sack by winning the FA cup in 1990 (I think it was that year.)

You may remember that Sarah Ferguson (Prince Andrew's ex) had some embarrassing photos published of her cavorting with some man while wearing very little by the side of a swimming pool. Anyway one of the tabloids published the headline "Fergie's Bottom". At first this was thought to be more revealing photos but it turned out to be a reference to Man Utd being bottom of the Premiershop at the time.



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30/10/2008 11:23:59
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30/10/2008 11:25:03
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30/10/2008 11:27:16
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:27:17
#231 sm 7531/2

He did amazing with Aberdeen and did well with St Mirren with little funding.
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Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 11:32:51
sm 7531/2 # 230

It is reported here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/3274679/SNP-Glenrothes-candidate-says-homesickness-means-he-wants-less-than-five-years.html

Why would the Torygraph misquote Peter Grant? The Torygraph and the SNP have cause in common: a Conservative government in Westminster, correct?
191

Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:33:36
#Churchill W

I think you are being selective in your quote.

The quote I read in the papers said he only wanted to be a mp for 5yrs as he would get homesick after that.

I see nothing wrong with someone saying they want to be elected as an mp but will only do so for a period of time ie 1 full term.

I think politics in general would be better if many of the mps were limited to 2 terms. (rather than the career politician).

You will probably also find that the interview could have been based on why do you want to go to westmisnter if you do not want scotland run by westminster. Any snp mp will be looking to get rid of wesminster and the disservice it does for scotland. With the snp proposing a referendum in 2010 then based on a positive vote for independence than it is clear that he would not be serving a further term at westminster. With a no vote then he may well not want to continue to serve at westminster given that he is standing for independence.
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30/10/2008 11:34:33
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:35:20
#Churchill W

Yes why would an english based unionist paper write an anti snp article.
194

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 30/10/2008 11:41:36
Sir Alex's support seals an amazing victory. Labour now favourites with Ladbrokes.
195

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30/10/2008 11:41:40
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:43:30
#Ugly George

I just think it is different managing a club to international. Club management is about controlling players. Kicking s*** out a play etc can be done at club level but is harder to get away with at international level.

Ferguson for me as a manager (until more recently) was strongest at bringing through and controlling young players. His man mgt was excellent. He did not seem particularly strong tactically (at that time relatively speaking). He had a way of playing and stuck to it and it worked to a large degree. His weakeness for along time with Man U seemed to be when he actually spent big money on a non uk player. But he has addressed and improve in that area now.

He seems to be good at buidling his own teams but not necessarily managing and adapting teams of big names brought in by others.

His success at Man u was after he ripped up the side and replace all the names with a completely new team.
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 11:45:03
#W U Merchant

I can see you not wanting independence but why would anyone want labour to win given they have been so corrupt and incompetent. Surely it should be vote anyone but labour.
198

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 11:46:29
The hyprocrisy from some people on these forums is shocking.

They complain about a multi-millionaire football manager who doesn't live in Scotland giving his political opinions because he is supporting labour.

However they are quite happy for a multi-millionaire actor who doesn't live in Scotland doing the same because he supports the SNP.

Either you condemn both or you condemn neither, you can't have it both ways.
199

Nikostratos,

30/10/2008 11:49:09
243 Yeah1,

One lives within the Kingdom of Great Britain and pays his due taxes from his income to the British exchequer the other does not...
200

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30/10/2008 11:50:44
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201

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 11:51:58
I see the Unionist Scotsman is being as partisan
as always with their selective and
copious articles on the back of Labour driven
press releases & highly choreographed
walk-abouts. It would appear that even if
Labour pass wind (witness George Foulkes)
they merit reporting in The BritishMan.
In the top 10 political stories the last 3 days
5 are rehashes of attacks, yet
again on LIT kind of the same
reporting coincidentally that happened
during Glasgow East.
I see however that the Scotsman forgot,
yet again, to report on an SNP press release which
directly affects many people of Glenrothes

"Labour dithering on miner's compensation"

"Mr Llwyd, the Westminster leader of the SNP's sister party in Wales, is a long-standing champion on miners welfare, and used the visit to call on the Labour Government to compensate former miners who are suffering from coal miners knee Osteoarthritis and allow them to claim Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit."

"What we don't want now is a long drawn out legal process, similar to the chest disease cases. It would be far better for the Government to treat these miners fairly and honourably by paying what they're owed, rather than wasting tax-payer's money on years of expensive litigation in order to try and avoid their responsibility."

"I don't think our former mining communities thought they would see the day when a so-called Labour government would rather pay lawyers to block claims, than pay compensation to those miners left with industrial injuries."

see - tinyurl.com/692fwt

Additionally John MacDougall the previous
Glenrothes was suing the government over his
fatal asbestos illness.

see - tinyurl.com/67wug2

Labour then have the nerve to promote the NHS and
health services as their domain whilst their own
MP and many of their constituents are left to
die with no compensation - ghouls and hypocrites.


202

Taking a Bigot's Money,

30/10/2008 11:52:47
You have to laugh at the Natz.

They must be really worried about the result judging by the number of rabid multi-postings on this site today.

Fat boy changes his line on HBOS daily - he's for the merger, he's against the merger, he's for the merger . . . Then there's his drivel regards energy bills - he could always use his own hot air as a renewable source of energy.
203

Taking a Bigot's Money,

30/10/2008 11:53:29
#246 Where did you cut and paste that from - MccDonald Road?
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Ugly George,

30/10/2008 11:53:40
241 Alan B
I would tend to agree that the managerial jobs of club and country are vastly different. The club manager moulds a team over a period of time and develops players. The country manger only has the players for a few days at a time.

Jock Stein had two stints at the Scotland job and never did much and Don Revie was a disaster for England but they both performed wonders for their respective clubs.
205

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30/10/2008 11:53:52
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30/10/2008 11:55:17
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Taking a Bigot's Money,

30/10/2008 11:55:47
#242 It's a pity we don't have "none of the above" as an option in our elections - they would win hands down against the trumpets that pass as politicians in this country.
208

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30/10/2008 12:03:19
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:04:08
252
I knew somebody who used to add another name to the bottom of the ballot paper and then put a cross beside it.
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30/10/2008 12:04:38
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:05:08
254
Are they standing in Glenrothes?
212

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 12:07:47
sm 7531/2 # 250

Of course The Telegraph is politically affiliated. It supports The Conservative Party in England and The Scottish National Party in Scotland; I thought everybody knew that.
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30/10/2008 12:08:15
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 12:08:25
#Ugly George

regarding Stein. I am too young to remember his first stint. Was that not only for a very short time?

His 2nd stint he was probably past it. By the late 70s his managerial career at celtic went into freefall. I mean celtic were near the bottom of the scottish league for a while if i remember correctly. (Was only 10 in 79).

He did nothing with Man City in his short time there. As such he probably was past his prime. The big english teams did not exactly come in for him then. Man city were quite low lying at the time he managed them.

With scotland he was ok it is difficult to judge (partially as i was quite young). He did help us qualify for 2 world cups but never a european despite much better players than today. 5 scots in the nottingham team that won back to back european cups. Plus scots in most the big english teams that were winning in europe eg liverpool and ipswich.

What i liked about stein as a scotland manager was we played decent football. I started going to scotland games in 84 for the 86 qualifiers.

In the 82 world cup the only world cup that stein managed we were unlucky only going out on goal difference drawing with with USSR after Miller and Hansen coalided giving away a stupid goal. Think Dalgleish was injured for that world cup as he did not play. Scoring 5 but losing 2 to New zealnad proving our undoing. That Brazil team was pure class.
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30/10/2008 12:09:06
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Yeah1,

30/10/2008 12:10:05
#244

"One lives within the Kingdom of Great Britain and pays his due taxes from his income to the British exchequer the other does not..."

Yes excellent point - Alex Ferguson is perfectly entitled to give his opinions on this by-election, he may not live in Scotland anymore but this is a by-election for the UK Parliament and since Ferguson lives in the UK and pays UK taxes he has a right to comment on this by-election if he so wishes.

He certainly has far more of a right to comment on UK politics than Connery, who does not live in the UK and does not pay UK taxes, and hasn't done so for several decades.
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Alan B,

30/10/2008 12:10:41
sorry leeds not man city
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Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 12:12:38
244 Nikostratos,

"One lives within the Kingdom of Great Britain and pays his due taxes from his income to the British exchequer the other does not..."

I see that the rabid Unionists are on one off their
other most favourite deflections after screams
of English racism, the slandering of one
of Scotland's most famous sons Sean Connery.
Clearly it is hard for any Unionist to take
pride in anything that Scotland does well on
the world stage in it's own right, I guess
the British don't like to be upstaged :)

In terms of Sean Connery here are a few more
facts rather than slander.

Sir Sean said that between the financial years 1997/98 and 2002/03 he had paid £3,694,591 in UK tax.

He had also previously paid $4.5m (£2.8m) in British taxes after working on the films First Night, Indiana Jones and The Russia House

Somewhat more taxes I would wager than any of
the generally talentless Unionist vermin
on the blogs have paid or indeed would
ever be capable of paying to HRH's treasury.

see - tinyurl.com/6dde4b

Additionally Sean has encouraged the contributed
of millions to Scotland via other means which
benefit Scotland first and foremost.

The Scottish International Educational Trust
"(SIET) has funded millions of dollars for scholarships to young Scots and Scottish institutions."
Friends of Scotland
"stimulate, and sustain an interest in Scotland and its history, traditions, and culture"
Also includes an $8 million townhouse in New York
to support the expansion of Scottish businesses.
see - tinyurl.com/66fq26 & tinyurl.com/6qsxu3
& tinyurl.com/6ewkps

Of course the Unionist sycophants would no
doubt prefer the $8 million and more was
additionally given to the British Treasury
as it could better benefit Scotland. Aye sure
talk about delusional:) The black hole that
is highly subsidized London is not to
our benefit and the degrading position
that we are expected to invest in the
South East and have Scotland live off the
219

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 12:13:14
cont.

Of course the Unionist sycophants would no
doubt prefer the $8 million and more was
additionally given to the British Treasury
as it could better benefit Scotland. Aye sure
talk about delusional:) The black hole that
is highly subsidized London is not to
our benefit and the degrading position
that we are expected to invest in the
South East and have Scotland live off the
breadcrumbs is just degrading.

Unionists do try and have some pride in Scotland,
her people and her achievements.

Saor Alba
220

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 12:21:37
Does anyone ever read Traquir's posts? Traquir, you really should do something about your line-spacing.
221

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 12:22:14
#264

"I see that the rabid Unionists are on one off their
other most favourite deflections after screams
of English racism, the slandering of one
of Scotland's most famous sons Sean Connery."

I don't think anyone here is slandering Sean Connery.

I myself am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of some people who are criticising Ferguson, a UK resident and taxpayer, for giving his political opinion, but are happy for Connery, who doesn't live in the UK or pay UK taxes (unless he works here on films), to also give his political opinions.

If criticising this hypocrisy is 'slandering' one of Scotland's 'favourite sons' then surely you would also condemn others on here who have 'slandered' another of Scotland's favourite sons (Ferguson) by criticising him for giving opinions he is perfectly entitled to give?

222

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 12:24:11
sm 7531/2 # 261

"I thought the Telegraph was a unionist bastion I am wrong?"
You've been wrong before. In a parallel universe the Telegraph does not support The Conservative party and The Scottish National Party.
223

Thomas1,

// 30/10/2008 12:24:17
To all you dafties out there, there's no point in voting for labour because England is going to kick their erses by voting overwhelmingly Tory.
So don't be a dafty anymore and vote SNP.
224

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 12:25:08
267 Yeah1

"Connery, who does not live in the UK and does not pay UK taxes, and hasn't done so for several decades."

Oh, I see you were not slandering just completely
ignorant of the facts, glad I could correct
the gaps is your knowledge.
225

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 12:29:11
#269

"there's no point in voting for labour because England is going to kick their erses by voting overwhelmingly Tory. So don't be a dafty anymore and vote SNP."

What a strange thing to say. You are suggesting no one should vote for labour because they may well lose to the tories in the next election?

So using your logic why vote for the SNP then? They have zero chance of winning the UK election....
226

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 12:32:42
271 Yeah1,

"So using your logic why vote for the SNP then? They have zero chance of winning the UK election...."

But they have a much better than zero chance of
ensuring there will be no more UK elections :)
Did you not realize that SNP's agenda is to
dismantle the UK ?
227

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 12:33:00
#270

""Connery, who does not live in the UK and does not pay UK taxes, and hasn't done so for several decades."

Oh, I see you were not slandering just completely
ignorant of the facts, glad I could correct
the gaps is your knowledge."

Sorry I should have said 'Connery who does not live in the UK (and hasn't done so for several decades) and who doesn't pay UK taxes (unless he is working on a film in the UK)' - happy now?

Perhaps you could now give me your opinion on whether you think Ferguson and Connery are entitled to comment on political matters in the UK?
228

Ugly George,

30/10/2008 12:33:39
264 Traquir
You seem to have a remarkably detailed interest and knowledge of Sean Connery's personal finances. Are you his agent or have you been stalking him?
229

,

30/10/2008 12:34:33
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Reason:
230

Thomas1,

// 30/10/2008 12:34:44
271 yeah1
There are daft people who vote for the wrong reasons,for example-because some football manager says so.
231

,

30/10/2008 12:36:14
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232

,

30/10/2008 12:38:26
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233

tartan army 2222,

30/10/2008 12:40:06
239 WU Merchant

Remember, Labour were favourites, strong favourites, to win Glasgow East. Look what happened there.
234

Lianachan,

Highlands 30/10/2008 12:42:35
Just when I thought there couldn't be any more reasons to detest Alex Ferguson, it turns out he's a Labour apologist! Crikey!
235

Calum10,

30/10/2008 12:43:01
SNP CUTS YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS

That is the message of streets of Glenrothes.

PS Man City tops are cheaper than Man Utd's.
236

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 12:43:25
273 Yeah1,

"Perhaps you could now give me your opinion on whether you think Ferguson and Connery are entitled to comment on political matters in the UK?"

I think that any Scot where ever their current
location is, is entitled to comment on
political matters in Scotland (UK if you prefer).
Many have families, investments as well as roots
and pride in their country. Additionally many
who are currently working overseas have gained
additional insight, experiences and talent
which can benefit Scotland by providing
many alternate approaches for Scotland
to better herself as a nation.

So yes Ferguson who currently lives in England
and Connery who currently lives in the Bahamas
are fully entitled to comment on political matters
in the land of their birth and of which
they are both, in different ways, exceedingly
proud of.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic
237

brownlie,

30/10/2008 12:55:37
271 Yeah 1

Are you posting as yourself today or, as usual, under cunningly disguised monikers?

Don't you think the headline would have been more factually correct as
"Six Alex puts his red nose on Mr Brown"
238

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 12:56:02
274 Ugly George,

"You seem to have a remarkably detailed interest and knowledge of Sean Connery's personal finances. Are you his agent or have you been stalking him?"

Well I suppose getting accused of stalking is a
newish angle from a Unionist, rather that the
usual accusations of English Racism. As you will
note Ugly one I am, probably futilely, correcting
the poor knowledge that so many Unionists appear
to have on one of Scotland's most famous
sons. Glad that you to appear to have been educated
by my "remarkably detailed interest and knowledge"
on Sean Connery. I suggest you too try and
use the Internet as a research tool at some point
then perhaps you will be learn things on your own
also. Until then I will keep educating you guys
as and when needed.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic



239

brownlie,

30/10/2008 12:57:16
283 should read Sir Alex - I forgot he was knighted by a Labour Government!
240

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 12:58:27
#282

"I think that any Scot where ever their current
location is, is entitled to comment on
political matters in Scotland."

Excellent, glad to see you aren't a hypocrit, unlike some of the other posters on here.
241

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 13:00:23
#276

"There are daft people who vote for the wrong reasons,for example-because some football manager says so."

Yes I'm sure there are people stupid enough to vote for a party just because a football manager says they should.

I'm sure there are also people who are stupid enough to vote for a party just because an actor says they should too, so that evens it out.
242

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:01:51
265 Traquir
"The black hole that
is highly subsidized London is not to
our benefit and the degrading position
that we are expected to invest in the
South East and have Scotland live off the
breadcrumbs is just degrading."

May I suggest that you study the details of recent analysis conducted by Oxford Economics on this issue. Details were published in the Daily Telegraph on 30 Sept.

Axccording to their analysis for the year 2006/07 London, the South East and East of England were the only parts of the UK to pay more in taxation than was received in govt spending. All other areas including scotland (with oil revenues included) received more in govt spending that they paid in taxes.

Their analysis does not support your rather melodramatic assertions.
243

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 13:05:35
Yeah1 # 273

Connery has given up making movies, so, what taxes will be coming to the UK from him? Maybe he has a few investments, will he throw us a few crumbs from those?
244

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 13:08:05
sm 7531/2 # 278

That's right, The Conservative Party and The Scottish National Party.
245

Marian,

30/10/2008 13:08:05
For the real story of the day I suggest that you watch http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qHqrBb-nRbs&eurl=http://www.order-order.com/ where Fred Harrison, the Renegade Economist, made his prescient call on the property market in 2005. His 2005 book has just been re-printed, Boom Bust: House Prices, Banking and the Depression of 2010. He has just produced this video accusing Gordon Brown of covering up his culpability.
246

Ugly George,

30/10/2008 13:14:30
284 Traquir
I did not accuse you of stalking - I merely asked if you were. there is a difference. I am aware of the use of the internet surpisingly enough. It just that I am surpried that details of one individual's personal finances are available on it.

I agree that using research is a valuable tool. I therefore urge you to follow my advice in post 288.
247

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:14:51
SO WHERE HAS SCOTLAND'S OIL MONEY GONE THEN?

This list from Traquir gives you a small part of the answer:

£30 billion subway upgrade program
see - tinyurl.com/6sxrgv
. £5.9 billion on one London railway station
see - tinyurl.com/6yheht
. £16 billion For another London rail line
see - tinyurl.com/yphdwl
. £1 billion to upgrade an existing railway station
see - tinyurl.com/5sn8mm
. three quarters of a billion on a Dome !
see - tinyurl.com/6h6ezn
. Followed of course by yet another London regeneration project
£5 billion
see tinyurl.com/5l3jp3
. £6 billion Channel Tunnel Rail Link
see - tinyurl.com/4pg53n
. £2.5 billion -Roads just around the Docklands in London
http://tinyurl.com/5
5wh6b
. £3.2 billion For Another Tube line
see - tinyurl.com/5qjoao
. £1 billion improvement to an existing Light Rail Line
see - tinyurl.com/6q2424
. £20 billion for a Second Thames flood barrier planned
see - tinyurl.com/5uf79a
. A £4 billion greenhouse tower over Batersea power station
see- tinyurl.com/6ac8hn
. £9.3 billion for the Channel Tunnel -
see tinyurl.com/6s4vsb
. £4.3 billion for a 5th Heathrow Terminal
see - tinyurl.com/2h5hx6
. £5 billion Upgrade other London airport upgrades
see - tinyurl.com/5oe82n
. £10 billion Plans for Heathrow link to Channel tunnel
see - tinyurl.com/568dzq
. £13 billion for a third runway Heathrow runway
see - tinyurl.com/3bgdtt
. £9 billion for Brown's plans to transform Thames Gateway
see - tinyurl.com/4kr3pt
. £18 billion London Olympics (including £184 million stolen from
the Scottish Lottery)
see - tinyurl.com/olympics

But being Scots, generous to the end, we don't mind London receiving most of our Oil money while 98% of the children in Glasgow East are living on or below the poverty line, do we?

What do the voters in Glenrothes Constituency think I wonder?
248

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:18:21
"281 Calum10,30/10/2008 12:43:01
SNP CUTS YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS"

Calum yo've got it wrong again.

It should be:

"SNP INCREASES YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS"

Any party who claims they are cutting your taxes is lying. What they really are doing is cutting ONE tax and raising finance from taxes and charges elsewhere. Gordon has played this trick for years - Swinney has just folowed in his footsteps.
249

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:18:29
"281 Calum10,30/10/2008 12:43:01
SNP CUTS YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS"

Calum yo've got it wrong again.

It should be:

"SNP INCREASES YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS"

Any party who claims they are cutting your taxes is lying. What they really are doing is cutting ONE tax and raising finance from taxes and charges elsewhere. Gordon has played this trick for years - Swinney has just followed in his footsteps.
250

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:18:31
"281 Calum10,30/10/2008 12:43:01
SNP CUTS YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS"

Calum yo've got it wrong again.

It should be:

"SNP INCREASES YOUR BILLS

LABOUR INCREASES YOUR BILLS"

Any party who claims they are cutting your taxes is lying. What they really are doing is cutting ONE tax and raising finance from taxes and charges elsewhere. Gordon has played this trick for years - Swinney has just followed in his footsteps.
251

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:20:32
#293 Brian

Your list is meaningless drivel.
252

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:22:27
293 Brian Hill
please see post 288
253

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:24:07
#297 It's part of the "blame the English" mentality - one wonders who really has a "Scottish cringe"?
254

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 13:24:10
288 Ugly George,Edinburgh

"According to their analysis for the year 2006/07 London, the South East and East of England were the only parts of the UK to pay more in taxation than was received in govt spending. All other areas including scotland (with oil revenues included) received more in govt spending that they paid in taxes."

Hmm, well I assume that no doubt this takes into account corporation tax of the many
Scottish companies HQ that
have been moved to London. Looks like Bank of Scotland
will be the latest acquisition to the
money pit that is London given that the England
dominated first and second houses of parliament
have waived competition rules. Also companies
such as BP with their outrageous £6.4bn 3rd quarter
profits which were formed on the back of managing
our Scottish oil, contribute to 'London's wealth.

see - tinyurl.com/6ns78l

"English Are The Real Subsidy Junkies"

see - tinyurl.com/6ao3hy

No only is London a massive subsidy junky but it
can't even do it efficiently.

"The average overrun in London was 131.5
per cent, almost four times higher than the national average overrun of 33.7 per cent and
making London the worst performing region in the country."

tinyurl.com/4swoxk

Where the UK subsidies really go...

"London is hugely over-provided for."

"London actually gets much more than its fair share."

tinyurl.com/6y4z4b
& tinyurl.com/5mzvfh

London Olympics

now at least £14 billion

see - tinyurl.com/6p43bv

Yep all these investments and consolidation
of our industries in British capital are
in Scotland's best interest, ye sure.
As I said breadcrumbs from the table.
255

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:28:25
#293 Brian Hill

You are insulting everyone's intelligence by not supplying a list of government infrastructure projects in Scotland, Devon, Wales, Northumbria, N Ireland, etc as well.

Why is that?
256

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:29:52
#300 "Looks like Bank of Scotland will be the latest acquisition to the money pit that is London"

The "Bank of Scotland" is as Scottish as Nacho Novo - it stopped being Scottish the minute it merged with Halifax. Anything that is vaguely Scottish about it is purely for the Marketing Men's benefit.
257

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 13:31:29
297 The Tin Man,

#293 Brian
"Your list is meaningless drivel."

I wonder if you think this list is also meaningless
drivel ?

. At least £8 billion on wars
see - tinyurl.com/5pe3lg
. A further £6 billion in nuclear research at
England's Adlermaston
see tinyurl.com/5c75ey
. £36.9 Billion on Defence
see - tinyurl.com/fcqfw
This includes (see - tinyurl.com/53mslt )
. Being 6th highest military spender in the world
. Being 4th highest arms exporter including to
countries with bad human rights records
e.g. China, Saudi Arabia, Columbia
. Being one of 5 official nuclear weapons States
in the World
. "investment" in chemical weapons at Porton Down,
which at one point were tested on a Scottish Island
(see tinyurl.com/3vkcll ) Incidentally the Scottish
Island was eventually decontaminated by an
English Company for £500,000 (see tinyurl.com/4fpkhr)
. £1.6 billion on running Embassies and the
BBC World Service
. £1.3 billion On MI5/MI6 centered in England
Particularly insulting since MI5 was (is ? ) used
to spy and infiltrate the SNP.
see - tinyurl.com/6qdltd
see - tinyurl.com/6lmogj
. £76 billion on a New Trident system.
see - tinyurl.com/3kub7t
. £72 billion on the Nuclear industry
see - tinyurl.com/5nk8ws
On top of that Scotland's Oil revenues have been squandered :
. £250 billion squandering the opportunity
of North Sea Oil
see - tinyurl.com/4pywt9
And of course we have a Scottish Oil fund
of £0
. "'North Sea oil will last for 100 years'"
see tinyurl.com/54wl8e

I suggest you try and add up all of these billions
and still try and call it drivel. There is
massive opportunity cost here where these monies
could be much better invested for the
benefit of the Scottish people first and foremost
rather than some has been ex-Empire that is Britain.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic
258

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:31:30
#302

It's
because
he's lifting
it
from
another
source
or website
elsewhere


Or
maybe
a database
in
the SNP
HQ?
259

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:32:07
#302

I think it could be 'tiny 'url'' syndrome.
260

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:33:18
#307 Traquir

You are also insulting everyone's intelligence by not supplying a list of government infrastructure projects in Scotland, Devon, Wales, Northumbria, N Ireland, etc as well.

Why is that
261

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 13:33:28
#310 More like "tiny dick" syndrome . . .
262

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:35:46
#307 Traquir

Please supply us with a list of government infrastructure projects in Scotland over the last five years, in Gaelic.
263

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:39:35
300 traquir
Sorry but quoting selected examples is no substitute for detailed analysis and many of your examples give a clear indication that you do not understand how these things are calculated. Indeed, it is obvious that your knowledge and understanding in these areas is limited.

Your mention of the £6.4bn profits for BP illustrates perfectly your lack of knowledge in this whole area. BP operates worldwide and most of its profits are therefore subject to corporation tax in those countries. Corporation tax on its remaining North Sea operations (many have been sold) are included in the North Sea oil and gas revenues and the Oxford Economics analysis takes this into account by allocating revenues to Scotland.

Also the analysis done (as is that with GERS) does not allocate corpoation tax to where the HQ are. It allocates it on the basis of where the company operates.

Quoting some media estimate of what a planned project in London proves nothing. Firstly as these are often planned and not current projects they may not take place and if they do we do not know when. Anyway has John Swinney not announced plans to spend £35bn on projects over the next 10 years

As I said I am only quoting from analysis from an expert body. If you don't believe them study the analysis of CPPR ant Glasgow Uni.
264

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:39:50
#313 Jakey Preist

Now tell us how cool Sir Sean is....
265

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 13:44:01
Here is another British white elephant waste of
money - the pig trough known as Whitehall.

"Bill for running Whitehall 'out of control' at £18.6bn"

see - tinyurl.com/5ezb85

Yet another 'investment' in the British Capital.
Of course this "out of control" expenditure was
from 2003, no doubt by know the swill has
been topped up quite a bit more - a few more
Labour Lords in the making (or should a
say on the make).
266

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:46:37
#317 Traquir

Do you think the Scottish parliament was a waste of UK taxpayer's money?
267

,

30/10/2008 13:46:55
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268

,

30/10/2008 13:47:38
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269

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:48:29
#317 Traquir

Here is where all the money REALLY went:

see - tinyurl.com/7eq98

270

,

30/10/2008 13:49:33
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271

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:50:19
317 Traquir
You quote selected figures conjured up in the media. This is no substitute for detailed thorough analysis. Analysis done by Oxford Economics, CPPR at Glasgow Uni, The Taxpayers Alliance and even the Scottish Govt's own GERS analysis all refute your assertions.
272

,

30/10/2008 13:50:28
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273

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 13:51:31
#321 Jackie

Changing people's geographical knowledge in Switzerland is really important - I'm glad you brought that up again, and again, and again, and again....
274

,

30/10/2008 13:51:37
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275

,

30/10/2008 13:52:38
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276

,

30/10/2008 13:54:16
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277

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 13:55:40
314 Ugly George, Edinburgh

"The $2bn BP paid in corporation tax and $10.5bn it collected for the Treasury in excise duties on petrol and VAT also looks set to be surpassed as the price of a gallon of petrol heads towards £5."

see - tinyurl.com/6l4h58

$12.5 billion to the Treasury from one London
HQ'ed company BP. Remind me again given all of
the Oil resources on which BP was established
were Scottish why was the HQ not established
in Scotland for the benefit of Scots first
and foremost ? Do you think that it would not have
been as successful as global company just
because it was HQ'ed in Scotland ?
Where were the open discussions, economic arguments
as to the relative merits of establishing
this and other HQs in London as opposed to
Scotland ? There were none - London and
Whitehall are the sink holes into which
our 'investments' are coerced irregardless
to the consequences for Scotland.



278

AJ Fife,

30/10/2008 13:56:13
I find it hard to believe Sir Alex supports the right wing, war mongering Labour Party!

I always thought Sir Alex was a socialist, a very rich, horse owning socialist, but a socialist jist the same......
279

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:57:10
325 Traquir
PS
As far as your selected figures are concerned let's look at one. The £76bn cost for Trident came from Greenpeace. They are a campaign group as we know. What they did to get this figure was take the cost of the actual programme and then take a selected view of some Naval costs and multiplied it by 30 for 30 years use.
280

,

30/10/2008 13:57:47
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281

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 13:58:07
332 sm753, still boycotting anti-semites

"Shir Shean should consider sponsoring his own Mishogny and Wife-beating Party, which would be a good counterpart to Mr Sheridan's Group Sex and Perjury Party."

Well done you have managed to place yourself on
the same low moral plane as anti-semites themselves.
Do try and up your game sir.
282

,

30/10/2008 13:58:59
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283

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 14:00:29
335 Ugly George, Edinburgh

"325 Traquir
PS
As far as your selected figures are concerned let's look at one. The £76bn cost for Trident came from Greenpeace. They are a campaign group as we know. What they did to get this figure was take the cost of the actual programme and then take a selected view of some Naval costs and multiplied it by 30 for 30 years use."

I am more than happy for you to come with an
alternate figures of billions being wasted
on Trident. Personally I think that figures
from Green Peace are likely to much more
reliable than the spinning lies spewing
from Westminster Governments.
284

,

30/10/2008 14:00:35
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285

Ugly George,

Ediinburgh 30/10/2008 14:01:52
333 Traquir
You are continuing to demonstrate your lack of understanding of this whole issue. Thw VAT and Duty on petrol is not allocated to London. The calculations are done on the basis that the consomer pays the tax not the company. And there are obviously consumers everywhere. If you look at the Scottish Govt's GERS analysis you will see figures for petrol duty include in them as an amount paid by consumers in Scotland.

You really don't know what is going on.
286

Ugly George,

30/10/2008 14:04:08
338
OK then go and study how they got that figure.
287

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 14:06:58
341 Ugly George, Ediinburgh
333 Traquir

"You are continuing to demonstrate your lack of understanding of this whole issue. Thw VAT and Duty on petrol is not allocated to London. The calculations are done on the basis that the consomer pays the tax not the company. And there are obviously consumers everywhere. If you look at the Scottish Govt's GERS analysis you will see figures for petrol duty include in them as an amount paid by consumers in Scotland."

You do realize there are two Londons ?
Corporate London where all companies are destined
to be assimilated a la Borg,
and of course Political London (a la
Whitehall trough) which siphons
all taxes and then determines how 'best'
to allocate them. Incidentally London and
the South East appear to do rather well
out of this determination, funny coincidence that :)

288

Steve,

Bo'ness 30/10/2008 14:08:14
This is the same Labour Party who cry out about Sean Connery backing the SNP but not living in Scotland.

While at the same time, asking us to be ruled via London, and getting someone from Manchester to help their campaign.

Hypocrites? Absolutely!
289

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 14:11:59
344 Traquir
I have to go now but let me leave you with this. Several bodies have done thorough analysis on this whole topic and they have all come to a different conclusion from you. You do not accept their conclusion yet it is manifestly obvious from your spurious references to VAT and Duty that you have very little understanding of the uissues and how the analysis is done.

Please learn something about the issues rather than quoting selected anecdotal and irrelevant figures.
290

,

30/10/2008 14:19:24
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291

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 14:20:29
News just in:-

Sir,

The article "Salmond Slapped down by Norway Minister" in the Daily Mail on 29 October contained several incorrect and misleading statements attributed to Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Støre.

Firstly, there is no "growing anger in Norway" over comparisons made between Scotland and Norway during the debate in the United Kingdom against the backdrop of the current global financial crisis.

Secondly, no accusations have been made by Mr Støre against Mr Salmond, as alleged in the article. In the interview, the Foreign Minister merely pointed out factual similarities and differences between the challenges presently faced by Scotland and Norway. Inferring from this that Mr Støre is of the view that Mr Salmond has in any way lied or mislead the public, is simply incorrect.

In short, the Norwegian Foreign Minister did not intend to criticise either side in this debate, which is a domestic political discussion. What he strongly emphasised in the interview with the Daily Mail and which, sadly, was simply omitted from the article, was his sincere appreciation of the warm ongoing relationship between Scotland and Norway.

Yours sincerely,
Bjarne Lindstrøm
Ambassador of Norway
292

,

30/10/2008 14:30:44
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293

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 14:34:11
#346

"This is the same Labour Party who cry out about Sean Connery backing the SNP but not living in Scotland.

While at the same time...getting someone from Manchester to help their campaign."

Considering Ferguson is a UK resident and pays UK taxes I would suggest he has far more of a right to comment on UK politics than someone who hasn't lived in the UK for decades and only paid UK taxes when he worked on films here.
294

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 14:35:39
#342 Jackie Priest

Your post is condesending holier-than-thou drivel.

Get off your high horse.

Frankly, I don't care very much at all about the geographical knowledge of the Swiss. I haven't seen a survey on the matter, but I very much doubt that it is of any concern, whatsoever, to people in Scotland.
295

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 14:37:26
What you can't believe what is written in newspapers can you!! I am stunned by that revelation stunned imagine being economical with the truth. I mean would you catch any MP using such material without checking the facts no I cannot believe it.

Next thing will be that the care charges in Fife are actually following national guidelines no stop it!
296

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 14:45:04
#345

I am jsed to being regarded as a white guy from a mythical place called 'abroad'. Dosen't bother me one bit.
297

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 14:50:00
Honestly how many folk are going to change their vote because they receive a flyer with AF, I mean come on!

So I should forget about that nice wee letter from Hydro about my energy bill rising by 30% my savings, pension and job. No no AF says I should vote labour since they are making such a grand job of the financial management of UK PLC (It's a global problem apparently!!)
298

,

30/10/2008 14:54:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
299

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 14:55:44
Following of the post by Tormod

Dear ,

with reference to your e-mail to Bjørn Jahnsen at the Norwegian Foreign Minister's press office, pleased be advised that the attached response letter from ambassador Bjarne Lindstrøm was sent to the Scottish Daily Mail this morning. We very much hope this will appear in tomorrow's edition of the newspaper in order to avoid further misunderstandings.

Kind regards,

Stein Iversen

Stein Iversen
Minister Counsellor
Head of Press, Information & Cultural Affairs
Royal Norwegian Embassy
25 Belgrave Square,
London SW1X 8QDWork
(+44) 020 7591 5521Mob.
(+44) 0777 55 24 737
sti@mfa.no http://www.norway.org.uk/


Sir,

The article "Salmond Slapped down by Norway Minister" in the Daily Mail on 29 October contained several incorrect and misleading statements attributed to Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Støre.

Firstly, there is no "growing anger in Norway" over comparisons made between Scotland and Norway during the debate in the United Kingdom against the backdrop of the current global financial crisis.

Secondly, no accusations have been made by Mr Støre against Mr Salmond, as alleged in the article. In the interview, the Foreign Minister merely pointed out factual similarities and differences between the challenges presently faced by Scotland and Norway. Inferring from this that Mr Støre is of the view that Mr Salmond has in any way lied or mislead the public, is simply incorrect.

In short, the Norwegian Foreign Minister did not intend to criticise either side in this debate, which is a domestic political discussion. What he strongly emphasised in the interview with the Daily Mail and which, sadly, was simply omitted from the article, was his sincere appreciation of the warm ongoing relationship between Scotland and Norway.

Yours sincerely,
Bjarne Lindstrøm

see - tinyurl.com/6ou44p
300

,

30/10/2008 14:56:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
301

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 14:59:07
Traquir has been emailing all and sundry to try and get some false retraction.

Well done Traquir.

Everybody still knows the truth though eh?
302

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:00:54
#358 Jackie

What a load of tosh. Most people regard foreigners primarily as fellow human beings - even Americans.

The Dutch wear clogs and eat cheese?

French wear berets and smell of garlic?

The Scots are English and wear bowler hats?

303

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:03:35
363 The truth as written from the Norwegian government that blows another unionist lie to bits oh dear I believe your battleship has just been sunk!
304

Not a socialist,

30/10/2008 15:03:50
The Scotsman seems to focus a lot of its coverage on the SNP and Labour.

I heard that all parties have to be given a presence in the media (I got this from when the BBC refused to record Alex Salmond talking about Glenrothes during the SNP conference as they would then have to allocate slots to all of the other contending parties). Does anyone know if this is a rule that applies to all forms of media or just TV?

It is a shame that we don't get to hear very much about what the other parties have to say.
305

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:05:00
#362 Rufus

I don't ofter agree with your posts, but on this matter, I think that you are either correct and Jackie is away with the birds, or Jackie is making it up.
306

Andy Stewart,

30/10/2008 15:06:36
Over at Politicalbetting.com Mike Smithson is encouraging the punters to vote on who they think is going to win the Glenrothes by-election - Labour or the SNP?

As of 0900 this morning the punters (after 200 votes) are splitting 61% for the SNP and 39% for Labour.
Over on PoliticsHome the PH100 Index "daily tracker of uk insider and expert opinion" is calling it 61% / 31% for Labour to win. Strikingly inverse proportions.
Over on Betfair the punters are putting their money where their mouths are and making the SNP odds on favourites. Back in July the punters made fools of the pundits over the outcome of the Glasgow East by-election. The pundits are as fickle as teenage girls, the punters are more calculating.

The London based punditry are out of touch, they talk too much to each other. Our old friend Tom Watson has been briefing the press that Labour will win Glenrothes and this will be a great victory for Gordon. He has convinced Gordon to stake what little political capital he has on a Glenrothes comeback campaigning in the constituency. However, as Ben Brogan has detected, so chronic is the shortage of local activists and supporters Labour are press-ganging English Labour MPs and Northern CLP activists to trek past Hadrian's Wall to help in the constituency. Not exactly a sign of a forthcoming resounding victory.

Guido thinks the punters not the pundits are right, again. Gordon's personal visit should, if the curse of the one-eyed son of the manse still holds, have doomed Labour's candidate. Labour are throwing the kitchen sink at this, heck the 10p tax bailout cost a few billion during the Crewe by-election, this time the bailout of Scottish banks cost tens of billions for this by-election. It will be close...
307

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:06:43
362 Rufus#

Let's just hope you don't go there then, they would stuff you and stick you in a clock you are so thick!
Labour cuckoo clock!
308

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:07:05
Traquir @ 361 I am truly shocked I can't believe that Unionists would use such tactics such as using the media to spread lies, what never, so when we are told Labour are catching up and will win Glenrothes, does this actually mean the toilets near a certain cafe are working overtime?
309

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 15:09:19
#358

"You don't have to pay tax to voice your political opnions. What a silly comment."

I never said you 'had to pay tax' to voice your political opinion. I said you have more right to voice your opinion on UK politics if you are a UK resident and pay UK taxes.

Perhaps you should point out to other SNP posters on this forum who are criticising Ferguson for voicing his political opinions because he lives in England and is a multi-millionaire - you don't have to live in Scotland, or earn under a certain amount of money, to be entitled to voice your political opinions on Scotland.
310

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:13:27
#308 Federalist

Sp
ot

on

The see tiny url king is

Lifting the info from

an

other

source.
311

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 15:13:49
371 Tormod,Auld Reekie

Yep I think you are correct, but the problem for
them is that there is a huge sewage clog and they are
about to get complete covered in xxxx :)

Great post by the way on the Norwegian Ambassador's
slap down of more British media manipulation.
They did exactly the same thing a few months
back by manipulating the words of another
Norwegian Cabinet minister Martin Skancke.
In that case they also got numerous
complaints including one from myself.
Clearly the Norwegians have
tired of British imperialistic political games
that use them as a puppet, good on them.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic
312

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:15:22
#372 Jackie

Actually, Rufus is correct - people perceive each other exactly as they are. Everything else is myth.
313

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:15:36
374 Sean was actually taking about an abusive partner can actually cause more damage inflicting physciological damage than using physical violence, he stated both were morally wrong.

It has been used against him and taken out of context that's why Sean always records the interview with journalists as well.

Why do you continue to use this nonesense really come on!

I also note that Nicola drove a coach and horses through the reprossesions nonesense last night on newsnight.
314

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 15:16:16
374 sm753,still boycotting anti-semites

Oh, well feel free to stick to tabloid land mentality.
I gave you a chance to up your game, but apparently
you would rather play in the gutter.
315

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:16:59
Nevsky the Norwegian Ambassador, what is your take on all this?

Cant you just pick up the phone to Jonas Store and find out what he has been saying?
316

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:20:12
377 It looks like your knowledge of civil engineering is only matched by your knowledge of marine naval engineering and international law.

A definite case of the cason's disease me thinks.

John A Roebling and Washington Roebling fantastic civil engineers.
317

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:21:22
Hopefully, Jackie Priest will tell us of the relevence of the Picts next....

Then it will be about how deprived Glasgow is compared to Geneva...
318

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:22:28
Nicola has more skill than the entire front bench of labour put together!


319

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 15:22:51
Andy Stewart # 369

You should have a look at the trendlines on the betting on Betfair. It looks as if the SNP are drifting and the odds on Labour are shortening.
Get Salmond to explain the significance of those facts.
320

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:23:06
381 Rufus#

Can't see one word where he states anything against Scottish independence can you?

He stated that Scotland was not in the same position as Norway which is correct, it never was and never will be; Scotland is neither Ireland nor Norway nor anyone else.

Still, they have £200 billion (goes up week by week) and Scotland has nothing, that is the biggest difference!

Maybe you can phone Gordon and ask where it is, we would all like to know!
321

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 15:25:19
382 sm753

Hmm, I guess you did not bother to get off your
butt and complaint about this British media
bias against Scotland. Clearly you were not
at all outraged at this slight.
Then again of course likely
you are so blind you did not even see it as
bias - kind of like your good pal AM2.

Sorry about your margin phobia I am sure there
is some cure for you, but apparently there
is no cure for your rabid Unionism.
Actually I have a wager that you were
a retired (likely in disgrace) Permanent Secretary,
after all did you not mention a few days ago that you
were pivotal in the formation of the National Grid - not sure if that was some ego boast or it was
just one your mundane Permanent Secretary tasks.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic
322

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:26:11
Nevsky you keep telling all your SNP drone pals on here not to respond to me.

Strangely though you always do.

A case of do as I say not do as I do eh!

A bit like your hero Alex El Gordo Salmond.
323

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:27:10
#389 Traquir

Bias is in the eye of the beholder.

Hoots mon the noo
324

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:27:11
Wasn't Sir Alex accused of corruption a few years back? His son has an agency that dealt with most of the Man U players (nepotism that is called) and he was being 'bunged' by daddy or something to that effect?

Still, ties in nicely with New Labour i suppose!
325

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 15:31:08
Sir,

The article "Salmond Slapped down by Norway Minister" in the Daily Mail on 29 October contained several incorrect and misleading statements attributed to Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Støre.

Firstly, there is no "growing anger in Norway" over comparisons made between Scotland and Norway during the debate in the United Kingdom against the backdrop of the current global financial crisis.

Secondly, no accusations have been made by Mr Støre against Mr Salmond, as alleged in the article. In the interview, the Foreign Minister merely pointed out factual similarities and differences between the challenges presently faced by Scotland and Norway. Inferring from this that Mr Støre is of the view that Mr Salmond has in any way lied or mislead the public, is simply incorrect.

In short, the Norwegian Foreign Minister did not intend to criticise either side in this debate, which is a domestic political discussion. What he strongly emphasised in the interview with the Daily Mail and which, sadly, was simply omitted from the article, was his sincere appreciation of the warm ongoing relationship between Scotland and Norway.

Yours sincerely,
Bjarne Lindstrøm
Ambassador of Norway

(With thanks to Stevie)
326

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

30/10/2008 15:31:32
#316 Jackie (or is it Winged Messenger?) - I am not a member of any political party (and have not been for almost 15 years) but what gets on my t1ts more than anything else is holier than thou politicians/party hacks.

The SNP (and the Fib dems) seems to have more of these than any other party - why? Possibly because they don't have to make the hard decisions that the two main parties have to - it's easy to promise the world if you are never going to be in the position to deliver it.

You know what's sad though - I actually believe a coherent case can be made for independence - it's just that the SNP seem to make such a piss-poor job at doing it. They prefer to be like Nu-Labour and play to the lowest common denominator. It's the Teflon Tony approach to politics that makes a significant number of peopel switch off from politics altogether.
327

brownlie,

30/10/2008 15:32:46
374 sm753

Perhaps he was referring to your pathetic attempts to portray Sir Sean's speech handicap? You seem to have a selective attitude to political correctness.
328

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:33:18
Salmond is good at something though.

He is good at making outrageous financial demands on Westminster and if he doesn't get it, well there's all the " proof " you need that Westminster is "anti-Scottish."

He knows that sort of shortcake tin jingoism works well up here and plays on it.
329

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 15:34:27
Sir,

The article "Salmond Slapped down by Norway Minister" in the Daily Mail on 29 October contained several incorrect and misleading statements attributed to Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Støre.

Firstly, there is no "growing anger in Norway" over comparisons made between Scotland and Norway during the debate in the United Kingdom against the backdrop of the current global financial crisis.

Secondly, no accusations have been made by Mr Støre against Mr Salmond, as alleged in the article. In the interview, the Foreign Minister merely pointed out factual similarities and differences between the challenges presently faced by Scotland and Norway. Inferring from this that Mr Støre is of the view that Mr Salmond has in any way lied or mislead the public, is simply incorrect.

In short, the Norwegian Foreign Minister did not intend to criticise either side in this debate, which is a domestic political discussion. What he strongly emphasised in the interview with the Daily Mail and which, sadly, was simply omitted from the article, was his sincere appreciation of the warm ongoing relationship between Scotland and Norway.

Yours sincerely,
Bjarne Lindstrøm
Ambassador of Norway

(With thanks to Stevie)
330

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:35:33
390 Rufus#

The point is Rufus that you contribute very little and are just annoying.

It's interesting (sometimes) to hear different views on this forum (even when i disagree with them) but your contributions are limited to normally two lines, display little in the way of reasoning or structured argument and just sneer at everything the SNP does; fair enough that the what you are and think but repetative and meaningless posting is just an annoyance and wastes people time (like mine now, ironic isn't it).

You seem to have no oponions on anything and i have yet to see anything you have written which i have though (mm he has an interesting point)...you just clutter up the boards really with your 'unionist lite' comments.



331

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 15:35:41

391 The Tin Man,

"#389 Traquir

Bias is in the eye of the beholder."

There are none so blind as those who will not see

One of the other most recent media bias stories was the
manipulation of the Salmond/Thatcher story. The actual
interviewer who conducted the Salmond interview
Iain Dale had this to say :

"Quite how Labour has managed to spin Salmond's remarks about Thatcher in the way that it has is quite astonishing - but the Scottish media has such a Labour bias it makes English newspapers look positively balanced by comparison. Every single Scottish media outlet is biased against the SNP."

tinyurl.com/5n2r6f

I think you need to get some new glasses.
332

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 15:36:18
ooh 400 hundred an omen for SNP Glenrothes victory no doubt :)
333

,

30/10/2008 15:41:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
334

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:41:23
397 Beal#

Actually feel sorry for Mr Store, the headlines that were created from his neutral stance is fairly disgraceful, if this is what unionists journalists are doing i hope the Norwegians report them.

No foreign minister would ever interfere with another coutries internal politics; it's just not done!
335

,

30/10/2008 15:43:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
336

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:45:35
#400 Traquir

All political party's use spin. I think we are both agreed on that.
337

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:47:51
Rufus#

You are sick!
338

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:48:34
#399 Nevsky

And you really think that people want to hear you bleating on about Norway a hundred times a day?

You are the biggest bore on here.

All you have in your locker is, your static response about Norway.

If Norway is so great, go and live there and give us all a rest.
339

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:49:45
RTF I still see you are looking for that constellation in the crab nebular again jings you must be missing your pulsar!
340

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:50:14
406 Spook

Yes it has been a hard day for me.

Only 12 hours sleep so far.

May get another 40 winks after 16-30.
341

nostress,

grangemouth 30/10/2008 15:50:24
Tin Man asked; Do you think the Scottish parliament was a waste of UK taxpayer's money?

Only in the sense it didn't need to be built - there was a perfectly good building available in the old royal high - but it was too visible for Dewar and his fellow unionists. Remember devolution was intended to kill off the idea of a free Scotland once and for all. But if you're looking for a real waste of my tax money? - Portcullis House in Westminster - cost far more than the Scottish Parliament building.
342

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 15:50:56
407 The Tin Man,

"#400 Traquir

All political party's use spin. I think we are both agreed on that."

Fully agree, but some parties have significantly
more influence over the media than others.
Were it a level playing field I would be fine
with the reality of them all spinning away,
but when the playing field is completely bias
towards the British position then it is
not all reasonable. Democracy British style
I believe is what you call it.
343

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:51:16
#405 Jackie

I believe that Labour can stoop so low, and I am enjoying the Blairite spin war between the SNP and Labour very much, but try not to take it so personnaly.
344

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 15:51:31
"404 - Rufus T. Firefly, 30/10/2008 15:43:48
So many brave Men & Women went to fight both Franco and then Hitler and died in vain. Yet, the champions of the people the SNP were happy to see these people die, as long as they had Independence.

There are many lasting and enduring friendships between Scots, English, Irish & Welsh fighting men. They don't give a flying **** about the Stone of Destiny, or Oil. These guys bravely went to war, with the intent of defending BRITAIN from Nazi oppresion and to up hold their beliefs of freedom & equality. "

And as the union flag is slowly lowered from its staff over Edinburgh Castle we hear the strains of "Land of Hope and Glory" fading in the background. Few tears were shed but a collective sigh of relief could be heard emanating from Princes Street below.

Slainte
345

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 15:51:48
407 indeed, the difference is that the spin from unionists is insidious
346

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:53:05
So Salmond could not answer a straight forward question as to whether the proposed discredited and unfair Local Income Tax was discussed with the LLoyds TSB board.

I wonder why he was so evasive.
347

brownlie,

30/10/2008 15:53:44
399 Red-face

You have concerned the market in boring on this site.

Nevsky puts forward positive postings - your's are invariably and tediously negative.
348

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:54:16
Hey spook, do you think that In light of this week's furore, that Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand should be placed on the Sachs offenders register?
349

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 15:54:47
#415 Traquir

The SNP form the Scottish exec, so there are more stories about the SNP than Labour in the Scotsman. I would have though you would welcome it?
350

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:56:39
Independence, for me, means one thing and one thing only, has one aim and one aim only and that is separation from England.

Independent from England but governed by Brussels?
Strange ideal.
351

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 15:58:03
#422 Spook I may do.

Keep logging on and checking though, just to be sure I am.
352

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 15:58:40
422 Spook#

Don't encourage him, he will want to be you friend soon, quite clear he does not have any!

In fact the way he creeps up to people, especially unionists, is quite nauseating!

353

nostress,

grangemouth 30/10/2008 16:00:23
Rufus the unionist wrote: So many brave Men & Women went to fight both Franco and then Hitler and died in vain. Yet, the champions of the people the SNP were happy to see these people die, as long as they had Independence.

You sick little piece of keech - You are beneath contempt with that one! My father fought in that war against fascism and he has always supported freedom and independence for Scotland through peaceful means - like many brave men and women who fought so that slimy wee sheites like you could be free to spread your anti-Scottish poison.
354

The Tin Man,

30/10/2008 16:00:45
#426 Spook

Go and post on the Telegraph if you want to be less parochial. This is the Scotsman. We comment on whether there are 645 new police, or 654 new police. Get with the plan.
355

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 16:00:48
Apparently Gordon Brown is quoted as saying no return to boom and bust oh what a card that man is honestly.

He should be on the stage with an act like that.
356

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 16:03:09
Nevsky the Norwegian Ambassador strikes again.

He cant stop talking to me or about me.

Its unnatural!

Nevsky I am not Norwegian so end your interest in me know.

Cant you go out whaling or catching Puffins or something?
357

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 16:03:46
Scotfree, Erskine on 3:50pm today wrote:

"We have in Scotland a situation akin to the occupied countries of the eastern block 20 years ago, with a pretence of democracy within a de facto one party state ruled over by a "collaborationist" party of occupation who are appointed at every important position of power and influence within the state, particularly media where no dissent is tolerated. The fact that we have a “Prague Spring” with a popular government in power is a severe test to the occupation where every method will be used to remove them from office from endless campaigns in the occupation media to the current economic warfare to the next stage, which we can only guess at."

Just thought I'd share that.
358

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 16:05:37
Hey Jackie, the only earthquake that they will feel in Glenrothes is when Salmond steps out of his stretch limo.
359

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 16:06:45
Gordon Brown is also now saying he never said boom and bust apparently it was those nasty tories, boo hiss.
360

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 30/10/2008 16:08:46
438 I feel for your pain it's not nice too see a defenseless animal in torment. Could I get you anything?
361

Finnzz,

30/10/2008 16:09:13
#402

http://www.rense.com/ufo6/nazisym.htm

Yup, lots of Nazi sypathisers in there all right. All those British establishment figures as well.

old chap!!
362

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 16:10:28
423 The Tin Man,

"#415 Traquir

The SNP form the Scottish exec, so there are more stories about the SNP than Labour in the Scotsman. I would have though you would welcome it?"

Actually they form the Scottish Government hadn't you
heard ?

Certainly a lot of them mention the SNP :)
About 6 in last few days on LIT just like before
the Glasgow East election. About 4 in the last few
days about Labour walk-abouts by Sarah,Brown
and Darling etc- again they may mention they are
campaigning against the SNP so the SNP yet again
get a mention. I wonder reading the Scotsman
whether the Scottish Government has any positive
policies which will benefit Scotland,
they appear to always report on them
as if they regurgitating Labour press releases,
funny that. Perhaps you could forward me a half
dozen or so stories from The Scotsman over
the last few months on the positive policies
being introduced on Scotland's behalf by
the SNP, I must have missed them.
363

MoClana,

30/10/2008 16:15:29
#429 Well said - Rufus is indeed a piece of cach !

He like many sad dillusioned Unionists believe that we should feel proud about seeing Scots war dead memorials all around our country from Crimea to present. They also apply the twisted logic that becuase Scottish soldiers fought and died (along with many other nationalities) that we now have no claim to self determination, this logic of course only applies to Scotland, as almost every other country has since delcared their independnece from their Imperial masters.

We can all have a laugh at him on Nov 7th, when yet again, the Scots who dont want independnece, who are proud to be Brittish and who have been let down by Alex Salmond....VOTE SNP!!!!

Rufus, would you like to admit your just an eejit now, or wait untill your proved wrong again?

364

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 16:16:49
438 - Rufus T. Firefly, 30/10/2008 16:05:37 wrote:

"Hey Jackie, the only earthquake that they will feel in Glenrothes is when Salmond steps out of his stretch limo."

One sincerely hopes that Ms Jackie Bailie does not come to Glenrothes as her entry into the Kingdom is likely to trigger a tectonic subduction that could result in the disappearance of Fife under the cold waters of the North Sea.
365

Rufus T. Firefly,

30/10/2008 16:19:44
448 :-)
366

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 16:20:26
429 nostress, grangemouth

"Rufus the unionist wrote: So many brave Men & Women went to fight both Franco and then Hitler and died in vain. Yet, the champions of the people the SNP were happy to see these people die, as long as they had Independence.

You sick little piece of keech - You are beneath contempt with that one! My father fought in that war against fascism and he has always supported freedom and independence for Scotland through peaceful means - like many brave men and women who fought so that slimy wee sheites like you could be free to spread your anti-Scottish poison. "

Extremely well put, hopefully The Scotsman
moderation capabilities are sufficient to have this
type of obnoxious troll censored.
367

brownlie,

30/10/2008 16:20:31
447 The Spook

Talking of red ink made me think that the head-line should be "Red-nose now Brown-nose"
368

European Scot,

30/10/2008 16:25:13
402 Rufus T Firefly ( deleted )

" SCOTTISH nationalists attempted to set up a German-Scottish alliance against England during the Second World War ........"

Your comment has justifiably been removed.
How low you do sink to try and push your cause.

I suggest you visit the cemeteries of Northern France and witness the number of Scots who, along with English, Welsh and many other Nationalities stayed behind in their own very personal little piece of French real estate, fighting against the Nazis, before you continue with this disgusting example of Brit-Nat propaganda.
If you insist on this tack, take a closer look at the Royal involvement with Hitler in the time leading up to the second World War, along with certain leading 'upper class' socialites. Mitford ring any bells ?
Those who support the British State stoop ever lower to try and help it maintain its control over the last of its colonies.
Utterly appalling, you should actually be ashamed of yourself.
As low as it gets.
A step too far, and you certainly won't joke your way out of this one.
Take note Unionists, this was done in your name.
369

Yeah1,

30/10/2008 16:29:20
#446

"He like many sad dillusioned Unionists believe that we should feel proud about seeing Scots war dead memorials all around our country from Crimea to present."

So you don't feel proud of the Scots who died in WW2 defending Europe against facism?
370

brownlie,

30/10/2008 16:35:10
450 Hen

I see AM2 on his site is still clinging, possibly not for the first time, desperately to the Mail.
371

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 16:38:23
455 - danielrober, 30/10/2008 16:28:04

Don't be an eejit. But then - perhaps you have no choice.
372

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 16:41:05
457danielrober, 30/10/2008 16:32:17

Obviously you have no choice - just ignore my previous post. Keep trying though. You'll improve with practice.
373

mike3,

Midlands 30/10/2008 16:47:54
Is Ferguson politically active then? Guess he must have got the title from the government for something. Not a donor I take it?
374

,

30/10/2008 16:55:56
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375

The Master,

30/10/2008 17:07:42
We have here two candidates for the title of GLS (Greatest Living Scotsman) and it's all too apparent that only Ferguson truly has the best interests of ordinary Scots at heart.

The other holds forth from his tax haven in the Bahamas and is more interested in promoting the creation of some artificial ghetto which will separate Scotland from the rest of the UK for no good reason other than a fondness for "songs and heroes".

People of Glenrothes: the Master calls on you to say no to nationalism (which has played a sorry part in modern European history) and to wipe the smug grin off the face of the obese one!
376

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 17:10:51
People of Glenrothes - the Master calls on you to doff your caps and tug your forelocks to your betters in London, England.
377

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 30/10/2008 17:16:59
Sir Alex Ferguson, that's SIR Alex Ferguson supports the union and all that implies. Yet another Scottish "socialist" who has been seduced by the whole package of honour and privilege. Bought by English gold (and a knighthood).
378

brownlie,

30/10/2008 17:20:55
479 sm753

Oh well, that's okay then - all I can suggest to you is that most people who suffer from this affliction do regard it as rather an embarassing handicap. They are more likely to be reading your words of wisdom than Sean Connery.
379

European Scot,

30/10/2008 17:22:50
471 Hen Broon

Nice one Hen !
Imagine, the 'Daily Mail' may have misinterpreted the original comments, and somehow omitted the Norwegian Foreign Minister's emphasis on ' the warm ongoing relationship between Scotland and Norway.'
How unusual, why on earth should that be ? !
The power of the Internet continues to frustrate the efforts of the Brit-Nat propagandists.
No wonder they are so anxious to bring in legislation. to try and control it.
380

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 17:23:22
Luigiana # 480

Who's gold paid for Sir Connery's knighthood?
A little sweetener to SNP funds seemed to have had a miraculous effect in his long-running campaign for that particular "Unionist" honour.
381

,

30/10/2008 17:27:23
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382

,

30/10/2008 17:29:58
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383

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 17:31:44
"483 - Churchill W., 30/10/2008 17:23:22
Luigiana # 480

Who's gold paid for Sir Connery's knighthood?
A little sweetener to SNP funds seemed to have had a miraculous effect in his long-running campaign for that particular "Unionist" honour."

This may come as a surprise to you, but it is the gift of the Westminster ubermensch to bestow titles. Labour had to be shamed into bestowing "Sir" Sean's title, as he was persona non gratis given his support for independence.

Personally I find the whole "honours" system an anachronism and a nonsense.
384

Thomas1,

// 30/10/2008 17:33:34
287 yeah1
If some people voted SNP because Mr connery said so and it makes them daft then how daft must some people be if they vote labour or tory because you said so?,they must be complete idiots.
Everybody knows that labour voters are all daft so stop moaning.


385

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 17:35:27
sm 7531/2 # 485

Yeah right! The cash that went to the SNP was just a concidence?

Anyway, why would such a staunch nationalist want that "Unionist" honour? If Salmond was offered a knighthood would he accept?
386

brownlie,

30/10/2008 17:38:07
487 An Beal Bachd

Worse than that it's absolutely farcical when you consider Lord Foulkes and Lord Mandelson.
387

,

30/10/2008 17:38:42
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388

brownlie,

30/10/2008 17:41:30
490 Churchill

He'll be the first Knight on the first night of an independent Scotland. You'll have to wait your turn. I suspect that you've got so used to Labour selling honours to the highest bidder that you think everyone is tarred with the same brush.

Have you ever had a positive thought in your life?
389

,

30/10/2008 17:42:24
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390

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 17:44:08
sm 7531/2 # 492

No, Sir Connery begged the SNP to lobby the government on his behalf, which they did on receipt of his largesse. Donald Dewar, correctly calculated that giving Sir Connery a gong would not have a downside in Scotland. The upside being that SNP supporters are just as susceptible to the odd gong as the rest of the population.
Is Sir Salmond of Menie on the cards, assuming the golf course is completed?
391

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 17:46:50
Bookies odds on Glenrothes:

sportingbet:

SNP - 4 - 7
Lab - 5 - 4

The rest - dog meat.
392

James.com,

30/10/2008 17:47:57
Like a lot of very wealthy people they support New Labour; some like J K Rowling show their appreciation by shelling out Millions to the Party.
393

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 17:50:32
491 - brownlie, 30/10/2008 17:38:07

"Worse than that it's absolutely farcical when you consider Lord Foulkes and Lord Mandelson."

Too bad Monty Python isn't around anymore. Good subject matter for a skit.
394

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 17:52:17
brownlie # 493

What makes you think I don't already have mine?
It does niggle the SNP support that Sean Connery was so keen on a "Unionist" honour, does it not? The fact that he, practically, had to beg before it was awarded diminishes it somewhat too.
I don't think Salmond will have to beg for his, the Tories will gleefully offer him a knighthood if they come to power, just to watch him swither, disseminate with his political conscience before deciding that he really deserves it. The ultimate Salmond betrayal; watch him do it though!
395

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 17:53:17
498 - James.com, 30/10/2008 17:47:57 wrote:

"Like a lot of very wealthy people they support New Labour; some like J K Rowling show their appreciation by shelling out Millions to the Party."

Will she remain in an independent Scotland one wonders or take the train south to Hogwarts?
396

brownlie,

30/10/2008 17:55:35
495 Churchill

Like the majority of your postings you are quite wrong again. Britain refused Connery a knight-hood in 1998 because of his support for independence. Public pressure from all over Britain forced the UK Government to honour him in 2000.
397

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 17:55:57
sm 7531/2 # 494

The dissemination has started. What will the roll of honours be in an independent Scotland?
398

,

30/10/2008 17:57:42
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399

Nevsky,

Moscow 30/10/2008 17:58:39
500 Churchill#

You seem to be under the impression that all nationalists are also republicans.

Just to inform you, they aren't.
400

,

30/10/2008 18:00:25
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401

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 18:00:32
Hogwarts - code for Westminster?
402

brownlie,

30/10/2008 18:00:44
500 Churchill

Considering some of the idiots that have been honoured that would not surprise anyone.

I'm glad you agree that Salmond has a political conscience - I only wish Brown had one.
403

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:01:19
Col. Blimp­IV*, # 496

"She's our Queen too you know." You come across as a big girls blouse. Is that the best you can come up with to justify nationalists accepting "Unionist" honours. "She's our Queen too you know."

Any honours are proposed by the incumbent UK government and rubber stamped by Her Majesty. Honours bestowed on SNP supporters are at the behest of the UK government, subject to SNP lobbyists, that's it, get used to it!
"She's our Queen too you know."
404

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:02:51
brownlie # 512

You are confusing political conscience and political opportunism, in any discussion of Salmond.
405

,

30/10/2008 18:03:13
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406

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 18:03:58
Danielrober - do try to behave when the grownups are talking.
407

,

30/10/2008 18:05:39
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408

An Beal Bacht,

30/10/2008 18:07:06
Ye see yon birkie ca'd 'a lord,'
Wha struts, an stares, an a' that?
Tho hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a cuif for a' that.
For a' that, an a' that,
His ribband, star, an a' that,
The man o independent mind,
He looks an laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an a' that!
But an honest man's aboon his might -
Guid faith, he mauna fa' that!
For a' that, an a' that,
Their dignities, an a' that,
The pith o sense an pride o worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.
409

brownlie,

30/10/2008 18:07:17
514 Churchill

You said Salmond had a political conscience - are you now saying that Brown is a political opportunist? I think the penny's dropped and you've started thinking clearly at last.
410

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:13:46
sm 7531/2 # 515

You believe what keeps you happy. They are still bestowed at the discretion of the Westminster government. So, when Salmond gets his you will remember where it came from, won't you?
411

steve52,

Kinfauns 30/10/2008 18:20:27
I do hope that Sir Alex reminds the good folks of Glenrothes how the first thing Brown did when becoming chancellor was to rob the pension fund of Miners.......and he did not even wear a mask.

I hope he also exposes the blatent lies that Labour are spouting and their scaremongering. They are lying to people about the Home help tax and inadvertantly forgetting to tell the people that in Glasgow, Labour run council, the charge is far greater than that in Fife.

Let Gordon explain his so called affinity with the people of Fife helped him rob the Miners, do away with the 10p tax, sit back and watch fuel, food and other prices go through the roof whilst his pals in big business made millions by ripping off joe six pack.

Let Gordon tell the people of Fife that their taxes will have to go up to pay for all the money he is borrowing and giving to the people who caused this crisis in the first place....the bankers and speculators.
412

brownlie,

30/10/2008 18:21:18
506 danny boy

Is that the clunking fist that Blair sarcastically attributed to Gordon Brown? Will he go down in history, hopefully not in Mandelson's presence, as Gordon the Fist?

Can you now do a graph of the UK debt since NUlabour took over the running of the UK?
413

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:22:48
brownlie # 519

Why would you post something that you not to be true? Salmond is a political opportunist, he is a laughing stock across the UK for that. The only place, in the whole world, where Salmond has ANY credibility is in the mind of desperate SNP supporters.
You have big "Hen Broon" above badgering the Norwegian Embassy to get a retraction on something their foreign minister said. It looks like something got lost in translation, but, that's diplomacy. Desperate!

Col. Blimp­IV*, # 520

I can't speak for the English, I am Scottish. I do not endorse your justification for claiming my endorsement of your rhetorical question.
414

vimto,

30/10/2008 18:24:31
By the comments removed i can see the natz are up to their old habits.
415

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:25:28
Col. Blimp­IV*, # 508

Is that a threat, you are rattled.
416

unionist lie detector,

wishaw 30/10/2008 18:26:05
anyone remember the last time Sir Alex was wheeled out, him and a few other unionists went on record to ask Scotland not to vote in the SNP, what happened yes we did just that. Why dont you just stick to your day job big man and leave us alone up here to sort this out ourselves, we dont need you or anyone else to tell us what to do so f*** off
417

unionist lie detector,

wishaw 30/10/2008 18:28:03
Churchill that was a blatant lie about "Salmond Slapped down by Norway Minister" headline and you know it, and so does everyone else now that its been exposed for what it was, another propoganda report by the unionist gagged press.
418

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:29:01
Nevsky # 507

I know that not all nationalist are republicans, it is a "wedge" issue amongst nationalists, one that will eventually initiate civil war in the SNP. A bit like "Europe" in the Tory party, not mentioned much, nevertheless an issue of contention.
419

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 18:33:53
526 vimto,

"By the comments removed i can see the natz are up to their old habits."

Yep, you are correct cleaning up after Unionists
yet again. Perhaps you would have preferred the
nauseating Nazi posts by one your fellow
Unionists to have not been removed ?
420

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:36:56
unionist lie detector # 529

Why would a Tory newspaper, The Telegraph, attempt to embarrass their right wing Scottish allies, the Scottish National Party by misreporting the Norwegian foreign minister?
I hardly think that the government in Oslo wants to be equated with Salmond's assembly in Edinburgh. Additionally, they do not want their economy to be equated with Salmond's imaginery version of the Scottish economy. The differences were pointed out, take it, or, leave it.
421

Alan B,

30/10/2008 18:38:06
#Churchill W

The republican issue is irelevent until independence has actually happened. As such it will never be a wedge issue for the snp before independence.

After independence then we will have too see how the parties realign.

422

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 18:39:49
530 Churchill W.,

"Nevsky # 507

I know that not all nationalist are republicans, it is a "wedge" issue amongst nationalists, one that will eventually initiate civil war in the SNP."

Hmm, I think your wishful thinking cap is a little
too tight. Like most Scots those in the SNP really
don't care that much about the monarchy - it is
a very low level issue which can be dealt with
whenever is opportune after independence. Feel free
to keep to your delusional dreams of civil war though,
although it is more likely that real civil
war/schism will be within the Labour between the
faux champagne socialist and lefty comrade socialists -
now there is a bloodbath waiting to happen - enjoy.

423

brownlie,

30/10/2008 18:41:50
525 Churchill

Why would you post something that you (know) not to be true.

I did not post it originally - you did:

500 Churchill

posted regarding Alex Salmond:

"...disemminate with his political conscience..."

You then made up the following without proof or, indeed, reason.

"Salmond is a political opportunist, he is a laughing stock accross the UK for that. The only place in the whole world where Salmond has ANY credibility is in the mind of desperate SNP Supporter"

Why would you post something that you know not to be true?

You will be aware that Salmond was voted as the prestigious Parliamentarian of the Year in the UK Parliament in 2007 which is in stark contrast to your contention above.
424

,

30/10/2008 18:43:40
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425

Churchill W.,

30/10/2008 18:49:24
Alan B # 533

It is a wedge issue. The solution is for nationalists to keep accepting "Unionist" honours until independ