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Wheels of misfortune: Hoy attacks politicians just as Brown holds him up as best of British

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Published Date: 05 September 2008
CHRIS Hoy, the triple Olympic cycling gold medallist, has spoken of his dismay at having politicians "cash in" on his success – unaware he was about to be held up as a shining example of Britishness by the Prime Minister.
Scots-born Hoy, who became the first Briton in a century to win three golds in his success at the Beijing Games, said he was annoyed at being dragged into the political debate about being Scottish or British.

Hoy made the comments in a pre-recorded TV interview with Jonathan Ross, to be broadcast tonight. But last night, Gordon Brown, addressing the CBI Scotland dinner in Glasgow, quoted remarks made by Hoy saying that he would not have won three golds if he had not been part of the UK team.

Mr Brown said: "As our triple gold medallist Chris Hoy said, 'Scotland is part of Britain – they are not mutually exclusive. I wouldn't have three gold medals hanging round my neck if I wasn't part of the British team'."

Shortly after his Olympic success, Hoy had become embroiled in a debate over the feasibility of a Scottish Olympic team.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, made the proposal but Hoy, born in Edinburgh, felt it was timed to capitalise on his achievements.

"I was annoyed at getting drawn into a political debate when I'm an athlete. I ride a bike, I'm not a politician," he said. "Politicians want to be involved so that they can get some sort of association with your success and benefit from the positive feeling in your country.

"I was frustrated by the whole debate because I felt like I'd been misrepresented. I wasn't being anti-Scottish.

"If there was a Scottish team in the Olympics, of course I'd want to be part of it, just like I am at the Commonwealth Games. But I felt the politicians were just trying to cash in on our success."

Hoy reiterated that his objection to a Scottish team was based on feasibility and not a lack of national pride.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 September 2008 11:56 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Chris Hoy
 
1

Alan Reid,

NZ 05/09/2008 00:20:03
Chris did you not think that this was going to happen?

What Brown is trying to say is Scotland would be a third world country overnight if it wasn't for England feeding us and putting clothes on our backs.
Pathetic for a Scotsman.
2

JG,

Fife 05/09/2008 00:35:36
#1 Alan
The guy was probably just happy about winning a medal for Britain (the team he was competing for, after all). It's the politicians who are pathetic!
3

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 00:43:40
Chris Hoy aside, this whole thing about the Olympic team is a nonsense. Am I supposed to believe that the Scottish electorate should wave their right to representation on a number of key issues (Trident amongst them) because if we don't give up that right to determine our own future we won't get a few gold medals and a chance to wave the union flag?

I am pleased for Chris Hoy. He has excelled in his sport and won the highest recognition of his abilities. But I want to know that my vote counts on a whole number of issues that affect my life, that I don't have to suffer being called a 'subsidy junky' because Westminster don't think us responsible enough to raise our own taxes, and that if what the electorate in Scotland thinks is good for them clashes with Westminster's view that we can go our own way.

Tonight I listened to Andy Kerr describe the SNP as 'right-wing'. Oh how I laughed. The party who are currently introducing policies that the majority of Scots would have wished they'd seen from Labour in previous administrations dubbed 'right-wing' by an apologist for a party who are an apology for socialists. Don't make me laugh.
4

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 05/09/2008 00:57:42
Don't be modest Scotsman. You manufactured this controversy. You misquoted Stewart Maxwell to Chris Hoy and then misquoted Hoy on your front page.

Maxwell said, 'If Scotland was independent of course there should be a separate Olympic team.'

You told Hoy that the SNP Government has said they called for a Scottish Olymbic team now. Not true.

Hoy said there was not the facilities for cycling in Scotland and that therefore the idea was 'ridiculous' -for the cycling team.

You then quoted him on your front page saying that the idea of a separate Scottish team - at any time - was ridiculous. He didn't say that.

So Scotsman, don't be shy. Take credit for ruining our sportng hero's homecoming and glory. Anything is worth getting a dig in at the SNP. Don't you think?

How's your circulation figures bytheway?
5

Senga Jean,

05/09/2008 01:06:57
The SNP are the real Olympians in the ancient Greek tradition. Read Greek history and weep,Broon!
6

,

05/09/2008 01:08:07
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7

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 05/09/2008 01:14:57
Joseph

Are you an 80 year-old Rangers fan? Rule Britannia!
8

,

05/09/2008 01:43:35
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9

Fanling,

Switzerland 05/09/2008 02:02:02
"Scots-born Hoy, who became the first Briton in a century to win three golds in his success at the Beijing Games, said he was annoyed at being dragged into the political debate about being Scottish or British."

If Chris Hoy was annoyed (and damn right he should be) at being used as a political football, then it's time that grovelling, self-seeking politicians saw that too. Chris Hoy is a model of what we should strive to seek for our country. Politicians should p!ss off out of this arena.

Chris Hoy alone will decide what he is nationally, and it's no damn business of anyone outside of his immediate circle to presume or demand otherwise.



10

Alan Reid,

NZ 05/09/2008 02:27:55
2 JG,Fife, You have a very good point.
11

Alan Reid,

NZ 05/09/2008 02:38:38
Joseph Gibson,Ayrshire,

“While we continue to fight amongst ourselfs, we will just allow what our forefathers all fought and died for to goto waste and the our childrens future to be at risk (And thats a fact)”

Do you remember in 1939 the 51st highland regiment being sent to their deaths because Westminster under Churchill would not send English troops to be slaughtered? But it was okay to send Scottish lads. And as we look at our country today things have still not changed.

You have a point Jo, but until we have some kind of democracy in Scotland, we will see more Scottish troops going for to die in illegal wars.
And of course you know the Scottish Government has NO power to say if it will go to war or not, on that point we are controlled by English based Government.

Have a bit of vision mate, we can do a lot better.

12

donald,

glasgow 05/09/2008 04:00:38
Any Scot, Welsh or Irish person posing with the Butcher's Apron is asking for trouble. If Black US Athletes have the courage to make a token salute on the podium, is it asking too much for Scottish athletes to refuse the Butcher's Apron for a Saltire. We saw what happened to Andy Murray for even daring to wear Saltire wristbands.
13

Graeme,

Guangzhou 05/09/2008 04:23:56
#11.Alan, This may be true but a little selective I see. Churchill was responsible for a lot of decisions and regiments from every part of Great Britain between 1939 and 1945 (funny enough). Even in his second term for example the Malay Emergency….In all an awful lot of brave English died alongside the Scots, Welsh and Irish



14

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen. UK 05/09/2008 04:55:07
Chris Hoy has never been out of the news with his bratty ramblings. It's about high time he shut up and went home!
15

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 05/09/2008 07:45:37
#11 It was 1940 and two brigades of the 51st Highland Division who were trapped at St Valery.Please dont use the sacrifice of brave men to justify your despicable anglophobia.
16

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 07:52:51
Hoy trains somewhere in England, why ?
Isa it because politicians have agreed that the facilities should be provided there and not in Edinburgh ?
Sorry Chris, you need to have a look at the world we live in where politics and politicians influence everything in our daily lives.
17

Stop buy Scotsman,

05/09/2008 08:12:11
Shame on you Scotsman for misquoted Hoy.. It is not surprise the Scotsman's circulation figures is going down and down as long as they continue lie to people of Scotland.

People of Scotland, keep up the good work by STOP BUY SCOTSMAN.
18

Hugo of Garven,

05/09/2008 08:22:25
Hoy calls it as he sees it.

He is entitled to that.
19

JG,

Fife 05/09/2008 08:38:28
#18 MacGillicuddy
Politicians are opportunists and will ride on the back of ANYONE'S success. It makes no difference what their political hue is - they're all the same!
20

,

05/09/2008 08:39:53
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21

Mike S,

05/09/2008 09:06:45
If as Brown says Hoy was part of a UK team why was it called team GB to the exclusion of Northern Ireland???
22

Linda,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 09:15:45
And has the Scotsman apologised for misquoting Chris Hoy on his support for a Scottish Olympic team?
23

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 05/09/2008 09:24:53
Surely Chris Hoy must have known this would happen. Lets remember when Aik Salmon came to office and both the Scotland football team and (even) the rugby team won a couple of games on the trot and wee Aik claimed it was due to Scotland voting them into power. What tosh we know, but he's gone silent on sport again, until that is Chris Hoy came along on his red, white, and blue bike. Gordy Broon gets my support for emphasising the benefits the union brings to the practical side of leading edge sport whereas Salmon is jist a **** stirrer
24

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 09:29:17
In 1948, in the WW2 afterglow, Clement Atlee and Winston Churchill milked the Olympic Games for their own ends.

In 1966, Harold Wilson basked in the afterglow of England winning the World Cup.

Brown and Salmond have followed suit!

IF, Team GB does well in 2012 just watch politicians falling over themselves to take the credit! The English commentators will ratch up the jingoism to new heights!
25

bill-alba,

fife 05/09/2008 09:33:20
liberal for life...that says it all...Please provide proof that alex salmond claimed it was due to scotland voting them into power, I am sure you can't.
fyi. the campaign for a scottish olympic team was well underway before the SNP came to power as did the fight against a gb football team, but as a liberal (or labour) britnat supporter please don't let facts get in the way of anti scottish feelings.
26

JG,

Fife 05/09/2008 09:45:32
#23 MacGillicuddy
One is as bad as the other. Or did you not notice wee Nicola at the press conference, smiling sweetly and trying to bask in the reflected glory?
27

Queen D,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 10:01:06
And what kind of face were you expecting JG?
A sour look perhaps? Dog chewing a wasp style?
Would that have suited your agenda?
Do you think that another party would have looked less pleased?

The Scotsman journalists who spun the story in the first place are to blame for all this , about time some honest reporting crept out of the pages of the dead tree society of Scotland , not to mention that impartial brood ,the BBC.
28

G,

dundy 05/09/2008 10:10:28
Successfull person used as political football shock...not...
It has always happened and always will....
The laugh is seeing the politicos twist to fit what the successful person says to their political gain...
29

Calum10,

05/09/2008 10:12:57
The Scotsman has to take most of the blame here. The Scotsman journalists twisted, spun and in parts lied about what Hoy was supposed to have said to suit it's own anti-SNP agenda.

Still Gordon Brown has again been made to look foolish over his Britishness crusade.

Today is not a good day to be British...... just like yesterday and of course tomorrow.
30

,

05/09/2008 10:16:56
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31

pwd,

Borders 05/09/2008 10:38:56
* 11 Alan Reid

What utter nonsense!
32

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 10:53:26

#4, Am Balach,

100% correct resume of the whole affair.

Please all, read this.


Wonder how many atheletes TEAM SCOTLAND will be taking down to London for the 2012 Olympics? Independence having been declared by the People at the Referendum in 2010.



33

Border Scot,

05/09/2008 11:04:40
#34 - Churchill was not even Prime Minsiter in 1939, he took over in 1940. Nationalists have a very selective view of history and are happy to distort it when it suits their needs.
34

,

05/09/2008 11:13:02
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35

ThePeter,

Glasgae 05/09/2008 11:48:48
Huh
Looking at the majority of the comments above I feel totally despondent as so many are pathetic and mud-slinging...

If Scotland does become independent then God help us as we will very quickly make Zimbabwe look well governed and rich in comparison to us....
36

Border Scot,

05/09/2008 11:51:16
#38 - I know that. I was just pointing out that New Zealand-based Alan is like a number of nationalists, who are very happy to distort history when it suits their purposes.
37

Miss H,

05/09/2008 11:51:33
I tend to agree that politicians should not get involved in sporting matters. However the reality is that there is always going to be some kind of link due to the fact that public money - on an immensely large scale in the case of the London Olympics - goes into sport.
38

Miss H,

05/09/2008 11:53:38
39 What a very sad comment. I feel genuinely sorry for you.
39

ThePeter,

Glasgae 05/09/2008 11:56:30
#42 - no need to feel sorry for me
I have lived in both Zimbabwe and Scotland

I do not regret a word I have written.


40

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 05/09/2008 12:04:47
#11 This is a long standing tradition.

This I think sums up Scotland’s military contribution to that plunder that is Empire.

On Scottish Soldiers:

"they are hardy, intrepid, accustomed to a rough country, and no great mischief if they fall."
General James Wolfe,1759.
41

,

05/09/2008 12:14:30
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42

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 05/09/2008 12:46:39

Mercutio, FALKIRK Not trapped, just used for political ends. And do not ever accuse me of anglophobia.

20 sm753, Neither, the first time I ever heard of this was in the Scotsman in the 90’s Funny that eh?


34 Joseph Gibson, Good points Jo, and well said.


35 pwd,Borders, “What utter nonsense” Maybe.

40 Border Scot, i'm not trying to distort anything, but I could well be wrong.

However, I found this article and it also has good points. My point I am trying to make, is I want my country to make its own decision if it goes to war or not.


http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Ordeal-of-Scots-who-missed.4095311.jp

The lad how posts at # 2 has put forward a rather strong point.

8/10, time for your medicine!
43

Alan Reid,

NZ 05/09/2008 12:47:49
sorry meant who, not how.
44

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 05/09/2008 13:13:16
#alan reid
Do not be so pathetic you quote something that happened years ago the fact that it was Scottish soldiers instead of English is totally irrelevant they were doing their duty to the threat of occupation of the whole of our islands. Have you bothered to count the English dead during the same war. Get bacl into your holr you scumbag
45

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 05/09/2008 13:18:58
47 Alan Reid
even if you were independent and did not want to go to war and country was threatened from attack through England will it be OK for the English to let your enemy through without resistance. Do not say it would not happen evrything is possible when oilis involved
46

Road Runner,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:35:33
Is it not time we started debating whether we should have a European Team? One Eurpoe at these sorts of events - we would always be on top then!
47

Nic83,

05/09/2008 13:38:51
Brilliantly said, Am Balach @ 4

Leave Chris Hoy alone, he's a sporting hero not a pawn in this stupid game politicians are playing with the desperate help of the Scotsman. I don't blame him for feeling totally p*ssed off.
48

john z,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:45:28
Hmm....Scotland is not Britain. Britain was an old little used term, drafted into usage by the English parliament in the 1930's, as Scottish Nationalism started growing. The idea encapsulated in the phrase 'North British'. Indeed.

I resent the fact I cannot hold a Scottish passport, but instead hold a british colonial passport.

Anyway, about athletics, there WILL be a Scottish athletics team at the commonwealth games in India, in two years time just like there has always been.

Before any more p*sh is written on the subject of the impossibility of a Scottish athletics team, perhaps people would take a look here;

http://www.thecgf.com/countries/intro.asp?loc=SCO
49

JG,

Fife 05/09/2008 14:04:28
#31 Queen D
Firstly, I do not have an agenda - as I've said ad nauseum - I DON'T LIKE ANY POLITICIANS! And if you'd taken time to read my comments properly you would find that I was aiming equal flak at whoever was trying to bask in the aforesaid 'reflected glory'. Anyway, having been so critical about Chris Hoy doing his stuff in England and competing for 'Team GB' does it not smack of hypocracy for the SNP to turn up for the photo shoot?
50

lulach mac gille coemgain,

05/09/2008 14:19:59
Gordon Broon is the best of British Diddy Men and should be exiled from Scotland for is traitorish behaviour - awa and support England against Andora ye big galoot ! It’s yer style to back the bigger team against the underdawg in your NEW BRITISH WAY ! Bullishness!
51

yolanda,

05/09/2008 14:22:14
Chris Hoy is right to be annoyed, but he shouldn't be surprised. It's what politicians do all the time. Where they see success, they try to associate themselves with it. Where they see failure, they distance themselves as far as possible from it.

Hmm... It must be difficult to be a Labour politician these days. Surrounded by so much failure, and nowhere to run.
52

,

05/09/2008 14:43:35
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53

Alan B,

05/09/2008 14:49:28
Brown was a pratt using Hoy for political ends. Hoy has a right to be very annoyed at his behaviour.
54

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/09/2008 14:53:01
#53 So much wrong-headedness in one post.

The North British Railway was incorporated in 1844, and the North British Hotel was opened in 1902. There is evidence of mainstream use of the word British to describe inhabitants of these islands for centuries. It is that is the Johnny-come-lately.

Oh, and Chris Hoy is a cyclist. Athletics is a different sport. The Commonwealth Games team does a lot more than athletics.

You're welcome.
55

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/09/2008 14:54:05
#59 Salmond was a pratt using Hoy for political ends too. Funny how you, as a non-SNP supporter, only see the problem on one side.
56

Jofrad,

05/09/2008 15:14:47
For GB to come 4th in the Olympics medal table is a fantastic achievement by any standards. These athletes deserve our admiration and support wherever they come from. For heavens sake stop griping and enjoy our success for the moment.
57

Jofrad,

05/09/2008 15:14:50
For GB to come 4th in the Olympics medal table is a fantastic achievement by any standards. These athletes deserve our admiration and support wherever they come from. For heavens sake stop griping and enjoy our success for the moment.
58

JCA REID,

Annan 05/09/2008 15:21:49
Re# 15. If WW1 was avoided WW2 would not have occurred. Granted in WW2 we were fighting an evil force Scottish troops have generally been sacrificed to save English lives, not only at Dunkirk. In addition there 76,000 Frenchmen in little over a week gave their lives to help the evacuation of the beaches.
At El Alamein the front line was predominatly Scots, South African & Indian forces. On D-Day more Scots troops landed than English. considering we are only about 1/10 of the population I think we have paid the blood sacrifice for too long & often enough.
Even at Trafalgar, when the population ratios were only about 7 to 1, Scots formed about 20-25% of Nelson's commanders, & a similar ratio of around 20% of the crews of his fleet! The Irish formed around 50% & there were significant numbers of French & Spanish in the Royal Navy as well at Trafalgar.
I am not an anglophobe/anti-English. i just want to see my country makes its own way & its own decisions in this world.
59

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 15:43:52
Alan Reid #1

Brown is not saying that Scotland is a third world country that would be nothing without England. He is saying that Scotland is an important part of the union.
If Scotland was not so successful she would be unable to honour her position as one of the members of the union.
The SNP on the other hand like to paint a picture of Scotland as some little dog with no future within the union, which is astonishing on the basis that failure to succeed in the union would mean no chance on their own. Can you see the contradiction?
Scotland is not the little dog the SNP make her out to be, she is not the failure the SNP suggest she is. Scotland is an important member of the union, as Brown says she is - Dont get me wrong, I am not a fan of Brown, I dont think he is strong enough to lead the United Kingdom, but he is at least able to see Scotland for the champion she is, which is more than can be said of Salmond!

Can you imagine an Englishman heading up the SNP? Of course not, the SNP are a little narrow minded for that! Can you see a Scottish person at number 10? Of course yes, because when you take of your blinkers the world becomes a better place.

Chris Hoy has no blinkers! The SNP tried to claim his medals for Scotland, but Hoy the man, advertised them for what they are - British medals for all the people to enjoy.
60

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 15:57:11
Typical of Brown. He's there smiling all over the successful Olympians - but where was he when the rest of the European leaders were signing the treaty a couple of months back? Oh, that's right. He signed it later, on his own, when there were no cameras around to record the inglorious deed....
61

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 15:57:55
Remember another of our cycling hopefuls was killed in a road accident in Fort William earlier this year.
62

Allan(handofgod137),

05/09/2008 16:16:58
#8, But it's all right for wee eck to use Hoy as a political pawn?
63

Steve,

Bo'ness 05/09/2008 17:16:17
#4, absolutely spot on.
64

Calvinist,

05/09/2008 17:18:41
Here is a short description I found in an American Guide to Scotland for prospective visitors to our native land……… 'It should be apparent by now that today's Scot is a mixture of many different peoples: Irish, Briton and Pict (all Celts); Viking; Norman; and Anglo-Saxon. With the blood of so many warlike races surging through their veins, it is little wonder that the Scots achieved such renown as savage brawlers who would rather fight than eat or drink -- well, almost. The wonder is that peace ever came to Scotland at all'………….well at least they got the last bit wrong!
65

Calvinist,

05/09/2008 17:34:53
#65 JCA REID,Annan

I find your comments grossly insulting. My father was at Dunkirk. He was a Scot in a British, not English or Scottish regiment, who volunteered to fight Nazi tyranny. The national and racial origins of those he fought with were irrelevant. Your comments border on the very thing he fought against. By the way I had another relative who fought in the Spanish Civil War- Why? Because he hated the oppression that the potent combination of Nationalism, Religion and Monarchy imposed on the Spanish people. Does that combination sound familiar to you?
66

Ken S.,

Reading 05/09/2008 17:37:36
#11 Alan Reid, NZ

“Do you remember in 1939 the 51st highland regiment being sent to their deaths because Westminster under Churchill would not send English troops to be slaughtered?”

Ah the great fallacy!

The 51st Division fought valiantly at St Valery-en-Caux but it had nothing to do with sacrificing them to save English troops. The Division had previously been placed under French military command and the controversy is about whether Churchill declined to take them back under British command, for fear of offending French sensitivity. There is also debate as to whether an evacuation would have been tactically possible anyway, given the German advance by then.


Some folks seem to have the impression that the 51st were holding off the Germans around Dunkirk so that the English could toddle away smugly from the beach. Not so. Dunkirk wasn’t the only evacuation point; there were several more westerly ones. For example the Lowlanders 52nd Division were lifted clear from Cherbourg.

51st Division was scheduled to leave through Le Havre. Part of it, the 154th Brigade, got out through Le Havre and Cherbourg. The remainder got trapped at St Valery, about 40 miles short of Le Havre. The straightline distance between Dunkirk and St Valery is about the same as Edinburgh-Peterhead, so it is unclear what English troops they were rescuing from slaughter. Furthermore, the Division elements engaged at St Valery included generic (i.e. not specifically Scottish, English etc) Royal Engineer, Signals and Artillery units.

So please could we drop the idea that this noble endeavour was anything to do with the Scotland v England thingy. They “just happened” to be a British unit in the wrong place at the wrong time.
67

camster,

E Kilbride 05/09/2008 17:55:24
When I researched the 51st Highland regiment it appears that the main trouble they had was being chosen to fight with the French rather than the rest of the British troops. I am not sure how we end up blaming the English for the fact that the French couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag even when on home soil. The pervesion of history or any event to try and show that all English people hate the Scots is boring and why I have given up on this board.
68

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 18:09:21
Starkravingmad

Brown does not fill me with confidence. Even from a far I can tell he is not the man to lead Britain. But for all his shortcomings of which there are plenty, he is still some way ahead of Salmond in terms of political acumen.
Salmond scares me, his rhetoric is not that of an intelligent modern man, it is more in tune with a short sighted fool living in ancient Scotland..
Anyway, the positive in all of this is that Hoy recognises his British achievment, no matter how hard the SNP try to convince him it was a Scottish achievment.
69

Ken S.,

Reading 05/09/2008 18:22:23
#76 camster
"..why I have given up on this board".

Please don't. Whether you're for Union or Independence, it needs Scots who are prepared to put forward their arguments based on modern circumstances rather than regurgitating and sometimes tortuously redefining past events!
70

Truely English,

05/09/2008 18:24:47
Me thinks, the Scots have a very short memory when it comes to their own history and how they helped to create Britain and Britishness.

To ensure they are fully aware of their central role in this adventure, I suggest those who need reminding should read the book "Beleiving in Britain" author Ian Bradley for a refresher.

The Scots were and are the real Britishers in every way. Even Jojn Bull was invented by a Scotsman etc. etc,.
71

Ken S.,

Reading 05/09/2008 18:32:53
#79 Truely English,
".. Even John Bull was invented by a Scotsman .."

Aw come on, sunshine, that's going far beyond the bounds of acceptable, if somewhat rowdy, debating etiquette
;-)
72

subrosa,

05/09/2008 20:13:37
Ken S., Reading 05/09/2008 17:37:36
#11 Alan Reid, NZ

“Do you remember in 1939 the 51st highland regiment being sent to their deaths because Westminster under Churchill would not send English troops to be slaughtered?”

Ah the great fallacy!

The 51st Division fought valiantly at St Valery-en-Caux but it had nothing to do with sacrificing them to save English troops. The Division had previously been placed under French military command and the controversy is about whether Churchill declined to take them back under British command, for fear of offending French sensitivity. There is also debate as to whether an evacuation would have been tactically possible anyway, given the German advance by then.

That part of this post angered me. Churchill primarily used Scottish troops before the English. This shame that he brought on a Scottish regiment is, more or less, publicly unknown.

Part of being British and part of the union dividend. It's still happening today. Check out the Scottish regiments who are, or have in the very recent past, serving on theatres of war - in comparison with English regiments.

Take into account there are many Scots in the REME, Royal Signals etc.

73

stracathro,

05/09/2008 20:21:50
chris hoy is right to keep out of politics if he wants to.
scotland is still a provence of england - but a very different people.
74

WL,

livingston 05/09/2008 20:26:17
Did Gordon Brown say that Chris Hoy was part of the UK Team? What about his "Team Britain"? That is what it was called by the BRITISH Olympic Committee.
Gordon Brown does not seem to understand the difference between Britain and the UK. Hope that he knows where Scotland is!
75

stracathro,

05/09/2008 20:27:40
#81 your comment is nonsense.
scottish war dead has always exceeded the british war dead greatly - not just in the world wars!

if you ever read books by german soldiers - you will get the evidence - try
hans von luck
ernst jounger
try to educate yourself about how badly our country (scotland) has been treated!
76

seanie,

05/09/2008 22:06:23
#84 Try paying attention to who's saying what.
77

danbob,

05/09/2008 23:41:45
84# Stop talking utter fooking shi*e. My father fought in Europe in 1944 in a scottish regiment. He was born in Glasgow and held the rank of sergant. He won medals for rescuing a corporal whilst under machine gun fire in Belgium. Now an elderly failing man he is still very proud of the fact that his name is in the regimental books in the Edinburgh castle museum. He used to sit and tell me tales for hours on end of his experiences and I was honoured to be able to listen. But I will tell you this. Not once has he ever stated that he thought he was fighting an english war. He was fighting for Britain, Which was fighting a tyrant. You sir are just an ignorant oath who sully old soldiers good name for a few political points. Hang your head in shame.
78

Alan Reid,

NZ 06/09/2008 00:27:38
#49 Raymond Thomas Brooke,Leven England 05/09/2008

The fact that it happened years ago is not the point. Fact is the Scottish Government does not have the power to say if it will go to war or not. That is something I am very against.

Also this particular episode WAS debated in Westminster at the time, and the decision was taken NOT to sacrifice English troops, but put in Scottish troops instead.
Yes Scots were fighting alongside English, welsh, Indian, ANZAC's but that does not change the fact that it happened.
Also things do not change, remember the 800 Black Watch, being swapped out for 6000 US troops in Basra? Westminster has always thought of the Scots as cannon fodder, and of course in the last thirty years a source of oil revenue.

As for calling me a scumbag, you would do wouldn’t you? I’m Scottish, and you’re English, p!ssed off at the fact that Scotland and the Scots are questioning why we need London with it’s English biased Government telling us when to go to war.

Media 1, let out for the day are you? Remember your pills.
79

Brian Hill,

06/09/2008 00:35:47
#4 Am Balach, excellent post I laughed aloud at the circulation question, perfectly timed.

Bottom line: Chris Hoy would be proud to represent Scotland at the Olympics but the quality training facilities must be in place first.

Over to you SNP Government and relevant councils.
80

Ken S.,

Reading 06/09/2008 08:47:07
#88 Alan Reid,NZ

Ah well, with one little mythical anti-Scots slight disproven, it's no surprise that you can find others to take its place.


 

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