Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Zero tolerance of under-18 drink sales must be worth a try

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 17 June 2008
AT PARTIES, especially student ones, you are expected to bring booze. It might not be the best quality drink in the world, maybe a few cans of cheap lager or a bottle of Bulgarian country wine, but anyone who doesn't will find their invitations drying up pretty quickly.
But now, if the Scottish Government is to get its way, most student parties will be alcohol-free – or they will be unless younger students can get third years, fourth years or anybody over 21 to buy the drink for them.

While this might create a mo
dest little income stream for post-grads, it will do little else except turn students against the government.

Students do probably drink more than is good for them but, like most things at university, it is a learning experience.

Some students I knew got so badly drunk at the start of their courses that they never touched a drop again, others drank as much as they could for the duration of their time at university but then sobered up pretty quickly afterwards when they realised that employers in the real world were not quite as tolerant as their tutors had been.

But most followed the same pattern of general periods of abstinence interspersed with heavy drinking at parties, gigs and events because this was all they could afford.

What are students to do now? Should they drink like mad at the pub in the knowledge that they face alcohol-free parties after closing time? Or maybe more will turn to easily accessible drugs such as cannabis for their after-pub parties.

The Scottish Government is faced with a difficult problem here. Scotland has a dreadful record with alcohol and the culture of heavy-drinking seems engrained in every generation.

Pilot projects in West Lothian, where shopkeepers banded together to ban the sale of booze to the under-21s on Friday and Saturday nights have been successful with violence and disorder down significantly as a result.

Kenny MacAskill, Scotland's justice secretary, wants to do something about it and, looking at the success of these projects, he has become convinced that something similar could be rolled out across Scotland to great effect. But the real problem here, as Mr MacAskill knows, is not just the 18- to 21-year-olds, it is those aged 17, 16, 15 and even 14 who are getting hold of alcohol.

That's where the drinking culture starts, that's where it does most damage, both in health and social terms and that is where it has to be tackled.

The current limit of 18 for buying alcohol from shops has been abused for decades. Under-18s are getting alcohol from shops. Some buy it themselves and others get older friends and relatives to buy it for them. I could point out now the off-licences in Edinburgh where teenagers could get served when I was at school and no doubt any 15- or 16-year-old could tell you the same today.

The Scottish Government is faced with a choice here. Either it raises the legal age to 21 and hopes this raises the real age at which youngsters are getting drink from 16 to 18 or it actually enforces the existing legal age of 18.

At the end of 2006, there were 17,234 liquor licences in operation in Scotland. A total of 1,380 licensing offences were recorded by the police in 2005-6 and there were 167 convictions. But most of these convictions (83 per cent) resulted in just a fine. Only 30 licences were suspended during the year and only half of these were for off-sales.

In a recent test purchasing exercise, under-age teenagers were served 14 per cent of the time by off-licences. The figures for Lothian and Borders were the most alarming. Of the 51 off-licences tested, 17 failed the test.

What this means is that about a third of off-licences in the Edinburgh area are breaking the law and only about 1 per cent of licensees are having their licences suspended. That cannot be right.

The pilot projects in West Lothian may well have been successful in cutting violence and disorder but it would be interesting to see what effect a zero-tolerance pilot project would have.

What would happen if the authorities announced they were cracking down on all licensees and that anybody who sold drink to anyone without a clear and definitive proof of age would have their licence withdrawn for two years, automatically? If this was done at the same time as a similar crackdown on the over 18s buying drink for youngsters, possibly hitting them with such a hard fine they would never do it again, then maybe we wouldn't need the general rise in the age of buying alcohol in shops for all that the Scottish Government is suggesting.

Last week, ministers called for the voting age to be lowered to 16, claiming it was wrong for teenagers to get married, drive a car and fight and possibly die for their country and not have a say on the way they are governed.

If 16-year-olds are mature enough to have a say in democracy then surely 18-year-olds are mature enough to buy alcohol.

As a caller to the BBC put it most perceptively yesterday, is the Scottish Government telling a 19-year-old squaddie who has just returned from an arduous tour of duty in Afghanistan that he cannot go down the off-licence to buy some beers to celebrate his return with his mates?

Yes, we have a problem with binge drinking, yes we have to do something about it but it would help if the current laws were enforced properly and effectively before we start telling students they either have to go to a party empty-handed or break the law.

It does seem unfair to tell everybody under the age of 21 that they cannot buy alcohol from shops in an attempt to catch an irresponsible minority.

It also seems misguided to change the law before the existing ones have been tried, tested and implemented as they were intended.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 June 2008 10:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 00:19:18
Yes I agree, with Hamish Macdonnell no less.
This is a bad idea.
To try and stop a problem with feral youth, by making all others in that age group equally "guilty" is extremely bad.
A soldier, just back from Afghanistan can't buy a bottle of Champagne to celebrate his fourth anniversary merely because he is only twenty.
2

Resolutions,

17/06/2008 00:31:43
When I was a student alcohol was a lot dearer than it is now and I do not recollect the off-licences being as many or so cheap. We got our carry-outs from the bar in the union and as a result, not nearly as much was bought for 'parties' as we could not afford it or transport it. On the other hand, there was something called being 'drunk and disorderly' which was enforced a bit more in that anyone getting too 'loud' was ejected. To get into a drunken state was not looked on as a badge of honour except maybe for 21sts where had a little bit of an excuse!
In fact 'drunk and disorderly' was dealt with fairly severely by theboys in blue - have they got soft or has that particular misdemeanor fallen off the radar? Perhaps being drunk should be regarded with contempt again as it is in so many other countries to effect a change in attitude?
But why are so many youngsters able to get the stuff so easily? Why is the law not rigidly enforced?
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 00:40:18

"most student parties will be alcohol-free"

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!!!!!!

FOR GODS SAKE, GIVE ME A BREAK!

Are you all 6year olds playing at,..

'Be The Politician',?

NO CHANCE The Students will go "Alchohol Free'!!

Have you NOT Got A Clue,??

What on 'Earth' do you get Paid For,?

Don't Answer!

We All Know the Answer!

The Answer is in the 'Stupidity' of this Proposal!
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 01:19:25


Its a 'Human Fights Rights Issue'!

You are Making Discrimination Remarks about "Students"!

Prejudice and Idiocy!

Watch out on your 'wanting of control' of others, you may think you in your nonsensical way of thinking, this is what should be done,

Think again!

Sorry!,..I forgot, you cant think in the fist place!
5

Suzi B,

17/06/2008 02:01:36
I sometimes wonder whether the law makers are capable of thinking things through to the natural conclusion.
When you live in a society where it is easier to buy drugs than alcohol, what happens when you make it harder to buy alcohol?
Drug dealers around Scotland must be high fiving each other when they hear of new laws like this.
They don't ask for I.D, they just ask for cash and teenagers hell bent on getting high don't care if it happens through alcohol or drug taking. If they realise that you can spend all night smoking marijuana and not spew rings around themselves at the end of the night, what's it going to be...drugs or alcohol. I know which one I would choose if I was of a mind to get off my face. No contest.
6

jimb4abobor2,

edinburgh 17/06/2008 02:45:20
well the goverment has got it all wrong i think. I was a boy and i bought alcohol at 14 years old but i did not go around beating up old grannies or even assaulting anyone to there severe injury or abusing medical staff. the generation now does not have respect and this is where it matters, if we taught them this then they would get the message. The goverment should stop moaning about expense and get on with it and stop this molly coddiling the nation under human rights issues, no they dont have a problem they just have no respect and no they dont need pychologists they just need to be given the punishment for the crime and this would make them think again. I know theres lots of factors to take into account but the punishment they recieve now is not the answer.If your allowed to get married fight for your country or any other line of duty then i think you have the right to have a drink in your own home. but i think there is more than meets the eye with the goverment they know if you drink in a public house then it means you will also have too pay the prices within but if you get carry-outs then prices are cheaper and the goverment wont rake in the same tax-profits for the year ahead hmmm but it has to be said i have kids of my own and am a single parent and had 6 kids and 3 still live with me aged between 14 ,19 and 22 and i have never had to explain or tell them about drink related issues and they dont binge-drink either the only thing i can think of is that we do things together and go places together one son is also a student but have no problems either i think it is the way you bring them up if they see it they do it and carry on with it if they dont then i'ts out of mind and dont bother. the goverment also has too look at the new laws and the late nite licensing as well if you have a crowd all drunk in one location then you can expect some trouble but if there scattered about then there is less chance of this i would say. It does not matter how old you are drin
7

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/06/2008 06:01:50
I was drinking bevvy from age 15 onwards, never caused any bother.
8

archie12,

17/06/2008 06:22:31
Every solution from Holyroood seems to be about more laws and yet more laws. Why not enforce the ones we have already ....properly! Why don't the licensing committees use their existing powers ....properly! Far to many relatively unregulated off-sales with no checks.
9

williamx,

Delta 17/06/2008 07:08:46
Remove the license permanently for the specific establishment and a loss of all family assets by the offending owner/lesor including his house even if it is in the wife's name unless she can prove she paid for it entirely.
Any older person supplying alcohol to under age kids also looses all family assets.
You won't have a problem with under age drinking with those penalties
10

Son of Loki,

The Dark Side 17/06/2008 07:29:44
Want to know the easiest way to address the drinking problem in Scotland? Ban buckfast!

Joking apart everyone tries the demon alcohol when they're underage because it's forbidden. Unless you have more open minded parents who teach responsible drinking by having alcohol at meal times and not saying 'NO' you can't all the time!

As I recall we always waited for a likely adult to buy for us. Someone always obliged!

So it's going to be really funny the next time I go to the off license to see a group of 24 year olds, all graduates, sending one of their number to intercept me and to ask 'Hey Mister, any chance you could get me a bottle of chardonnay and six cans of Stella? Please Mister!'

Remember that our culture can be summed up in three little words 'Take a Drink'

Free the weed man, free the weed!

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live

Loki Jnr
11

Virgil,

West Vancouver 17/06/2008 07:47:43
There is many a slip between the cup and the lip.
12

jdships,

17/06/2008 07:55:32
"Prohibition" did not work in USA any reason why it should work here ?
Reduce the number of small corner shops holding licences is surely the first step !

Too many laws when more policing might just be the answer
13

lachlan,

17/06/2008 08:23:23
#6
agree, when the kids can't get alcohol there is always the alternative.the problem in the towns in west lothian where the ban was in place was not so much the sale of alcohol but our attitide to getting drunk.when the the kids see the adults 'blootered' 'enjoying'a 'good drink'what do you expect.when we stop making excuses for drunken behaviour we may make progress.as some of our football fans have found when abroad getting drunk can be the offence.
14

paulr,

edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:34:58
I must agree, if a 16 year old is old enough to have a say in government or to join the forces and possibly die violently then that 16 year old is old enough to buy alcohol and drink it.
Or does Kenny MacAskill beleive that 16 year olds are good enough for cannon fodder and nothing more?
15

Tommy Trout,

Alicante, Spain 17/06/2008 09:29:10
This has been all the UK governments answer to problems, both potential and real, more legislation when everyone knows the existing laws are more than adequate to counter the problem if they are enforced fully. It's systematic for politicians, who seem to have more than their fair share of Lawyers, as it the only thing they understand and they know the new laws will provide adequate employment once they are voted out.
16

Miss H,

17/06/2008 10:10:41
First of all this is only a consultation paper. I suspect there may be an element of shock value in it designed to make people react and respond.

They are correct in identifying how much of an issue crime, violence and anti-social behaviour fuelled by drink is in communities. Some of these measures, combined with more police officers on the beat, could make a huge difference. That’s why Labour will support them and so will most voters.

I can see that there are civil liberties issues with a differential age limit - but the law will not actually stop people under the age of 21 getting drink. They can still go to pubs/clubs and can still drink alcohol purchased for them. I have two daughters under the age of 21 who drink. I’m not going to try and stop that. If this law was in effect and if they wanted to go to a party I would buy drink for them to take which would mean 1. I know what they are drinking, 2. I know when they are drinking, 3. I know how often they are drinking. OK, the civil libertarian inside me says actually you have no right to try and control your children’s drinking like that and I concede that point.

But the fact is – and this may be something Hamish McConnell has not really thought about – we have created a generation where dangerous drinking is normal. Collectively, we have failed our children very badly and something radical must be done to stop the problem getting worse.
17

commonsense,

At Off Licence 17/06/2008 10:12:52
If your teenager was taking money from the house,would the solution be to hide all money?
If your teenager was self harming themselves,would the solution be to take away all sharp objects etc?
As a youth I realised that a realistic drink would help overcome shyness in chatting up girls.
As an Adult I use it to relax after a bad day,however when I feel the need to use it to relax every day ,my attention turns to changing my life,and by doing that I need less Alcohol.
Surely the solution is education and the improvement of the youths lives,not banning the drug that helps them escape.
18

Miss H,

17/06/2008 10:22:14
18 I really don't think people like you have any idea of the drinking culture which exists among young people these days. It's not like it was when I was young or I dare say when Hamish McConnell was young. We are not talking about folk having a couple of social drinks. We are talking about them drinking until they cannot stand up.
19

commonsense,

At Library getting book on young people 17/06/2008 10:37:56
#19 Miss H
As we know nothing about each other it is best that we accept that.
My outlook is, that rather than trying to put off the day when they do eventually drink,we look at the reasons why they have to.

20

Nod,

17/06/2008 10:46:51
2 good posts Miss H,
#20 i get your point and imagine a 14year old having to wait til 18yo and walking into a pub and being more educated about (long term)dangers drinking achohol. and not to mention that they will not get away with there ferol behaviour inside a pub/club.
something needs to be done,this may or may not be the answer but we have got to try.
21

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Tram City 17/06/2008 10:48:55
some of you people should spend some time around AA meetingS to see the number 16 17 and 18 years old alcoholics trying to get of the drink,you would be shocked.ZERO TOLERANCE AND NO TO UNDER 21
22

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 10:56:34
Zero tolerance of anything is NEVER worth a try and anyone who thinks it is, is stupid.

Why can people not wake up to the fact that the insane, draconian enforcement of licencing laws has actually led to the problems we have now with under-age drinkers?

This problem never existed 20-30 years ago because there was a sensible attitude to enforcement of drinking age limits. A 16 year-old could get served in a pub provided they kept a low profile and behaved themselves. Now they can't, so they get older people to buy them alcohol and go and drink it in parks and on street corners---where even younger kids see them doing it and want to join in... and so it spirals out of control.

Scrap all these stupid labour principles and get back to common sense. At the same time, start promoting it to be "big and clever" to be able to handle your drink as opposed to acting like a moron when drunk.
23

Phil1,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 11:53:19
1st Enforce existing laws.

Why is it politicians are so useless. They make no effort to enforce existing drink, public nuisance etc laws and in fact insist on not punishing criminals and let them out of jail because they are full but take no actiona against the hundreds of drunks roaming the streets of an evening and even more so at weekends.

Instead of stopping the alcohol abusers they try and punish all the people. Where is the logic of allowing under 21s the vote, sex, marriage, babies, abortions, buying /selling houses, getting a council house, renting a home, driving and buying a car, divorce, military service defending and dying for your country but you cannot buy a bottle of wine to celebrate your wedding anniversary with your wife or partner at home?

It is no wonder ordinary people think politicians are out of touch and give up on politics.

I think the politicians should go and have a few drinks in their subsidised bars and restaurants and kick this daft idea into touch.
24

Zimbobimbo,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 11:59:55
BBC Scotland told us again last night the abuse of alcohol costs the country £2.25 BILLION per annum. Something HAS to be done and the sooner the better. Desperate times=desperate measures.

I support the idea, as above, that a reduction in the number of small corner shops holding licenses is a very good idea.

And drinks that appeal to the young should also be priced out of reach.
25

Miss H,

17/06/2008 12:52:40
20 In fact you know that I made it clear that I do not object to people under the age of 21 drinking.

What I object to - and what I fear - is a culture where people drink so much that they lose control of themselves. When you talk about drinking to overcome shyness – drink as a social lubricant - you are talking about something completely different. For a lot of youngsters the purpose of drinking is to get so hammered that they can’t remember what happened the night before.

If young people are drinking that much on a regular basis they are harming themselves. Memory loss as a consequence of alcohol is a sign of brain damage, it’s not a sign of a good night out.
26

Deamhain,

Aberdeenshire 17/06/2008 13:00:31
Charlie,

You really ought to introduce some measure of restraint into your free-range use of quotation marks and block capitals. If you consider that the people to whom you are directing your comments are of sufficient intellect to understand your message then you must also consider them able to do so without the aid of such devices. If, on the other hand, you consider that they need some guidance or assistance then perhaps giving them that assistance would be more appropriate than confusing the matter.

Perhaps we will discuss structure and form another time.
27

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/06/2008 13:21:13
Again the 'chattering classes', who by their very nature have no perception of life in the real world, decide 'on our behalf' that what we need is another law to deal with a problem, that they, by and large, have created.

The last thing we need is 'More Laws'.

As has been stated by other posters on this thread, the solution is 'enforcement of current legislation'.

Those who have been in 'power' for the past 50 years have studiously put enforcement of the law on the 'back burner', by their policies, we are now in a situation where 'panic' has set in.

Their answer, bring in 'draconian new laws' to tackle the problem, is surely the last refuge of the incompetent.

What is needed is proper sentencing, rigid enforcement and perhaps the re-introduction of the 'wan night lie in', rather than just relieving 'under-age drinkers of their booze, stick them in the cells overnight, and don't let them out until their parents collect them the next day, followed by an appearance at the local 'Police/Magistrates/Baillie's court' to answer for their behaviour, Abolition of the 'Children's Panels' would be a very good place to start, and no anonymity.

This way these feral young children will be forced to take responsibility for their actions.

As for the purveyors of alcohol to underage drinkers, if they are a 'license-holders' on first offence a fine, on second conviction a 12 month suspension of thier license and a fine, on third conviction removal of the said license and banned from ever holding a license, or being involved with any business involved in the supply, manufacture or procurement of alcohol products.

For those not holding a license i.e. the guy who goes into the shop to procure the booze for them, fines and community service, and for repeated offences larger fines and more community service. They will soon get pretty fed-up being out every weekend working with 'jakies' and cleaning graffiti off walls, and having to pay for the privilege!!!
28

EK,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 13:40:37
The government, police and society should and MUST come down hard on all the people that misbehave under the influence of alcohol. "Enjoying" oneslef can only be acceptable when it does not infringe on the right of other people. In "drunken Scotland" no one seems to care about noise, disorder, violence, rubbish (vomit, broken glass, urine, food and food wrappers in the streets). That's not fair.
29

JCA REID,

Annan 17/06/2008 13:44:23
alcohol consumption is a severe matter in Scotland, both for social & economic problems it causes. One area that has not been looked at, but is closely linked to this,is the consumption of SUGAR in younger life!
A high consumption of the white stuff inevitably leads to high consumption of alcohol in the teen years & later life - my source, the text book 'The Biological Basis for Human Behaviour.' It's a fact. Mind you in certain areas they skip the white stuff & go straight to putting booze in babies' bottles to feed their weans!!
30

Nikostratos,

17/06/2008 15:22:35
"It also seems misguided to change the law before the existing ones have been tried, tested and implemented as they were intended."

All governments make laws whether they are needed or not.And the snp are just the same..interfere ,interfere, interfere

cant smoke cant drink ta very much.
31

Miss H,

17/06/2008 15:34:04
28 As a fully paid up member of the chattering classes I am actually quite split on the proposal regarding under 21s though I agree 100% with everything else the Government is proposing.

I can see the civil liberties and ageist arguments against the ban on under 21s – though those are the kinds of concerns usually held by ‘the chattering classes’.

But I am pretty sure that the results of such a ban would see a dramatic reduction in drink-fuelled anti-social behaviour. That is a guaranteed vote-winner in the real world which is why Labour are not going to oppose it.

So it’s about balancing the arguments on civil liberties with the benefits that would come from going ahead with the proposal.

Also – as someone who supports the SNP Government – I have to acknowledge that if we reduce drink fuelled anti-social behaviour and crime and make people feel safer in their own homes we will win the next election with a thumping majority. In the real world this is the number one issue for many electors.

In the context of this debate I think it is the chattering classes of the Scotsman who are out of kilter with how people feel in the real world, not SNP ministers.
32

Nikostratos,

17/06/2008 15:43:50
#32 Miss H

why don't we ban alcohol completely and stop all the related crime not sure on the co relation between both but as you are I'll vote for it
33

ianH,

Balerno 17/06/2008 15:59:40
Miss H
I seem to recall that the demographic of the SNP voter was drawn heavily from the younger voter in social groups BC, correct me if i'm wrong, surely this group is precisely the group to be disadvantaged by this proposal, and you still expect them to vote for you. Dream on
34

Miss H,

17/06/2008 16:34:02
33 Maybe Nikko you should do a bit of research into the relationship between crime and drink.

Did you know for example that 45% of all Scottish prisoners were drunk at the time they committed the offence?

Most prisoners are young men. Most of them have committed offences before they were imprisoned. Most of them started to commit offences before they were 21.

It's not a daft a suggestion in terms of achieving results.

The concern is whether it breaches civil liberties and whether that should over-ride other considerations. Not actually whether the proposal would work or not. It would. But at what cost?
35

Nikostratos,

17/06/2008 17:06:49
#35 Miss H

So in all the alcohol free societies there is no crime or much less.

Perhaps the question should be why do they Drink let alone take drugs what is the 'cause'. But we know why don't we. Its the structure of society which gives them a hopeless life to lead with no meaningful choices just low pay,unemployment and prison.

As 50 cent said "get rich or die trying"

Who cannot understand faced with a life of poverty why young people choose a different path why wouldn't they.

Whats the snp going to do about that?
36

Miss H,

17/06/2008 17:17:19
36 No I don't think that any society is crime free. But Scotland has a particular problem with crime, particularly violent crime. I don't think anybody can be in any doubt that a great deal of it is drink-related.

Neither is it the case that everyone who gets fighting drunk does so because they are depressed at their lack of opportunities. That will be the case for some people but not all. It is also a cultural thing. Perhaps even an ethnic thing, who knows? The Scandinavian countries have similar problems and have adopted similar solutions.

As for what the SNP is going to do for young people with limited opportunities - well widening opportunities is pretty much the whole thrust of SNP policy whether that is reducing class sizes in the early years or abolishing tuition fees and replacing loans with grants.

But you should also remember that 65,000 children live with parents or carers who abuse alcohol and alcohol abuse is a contributory factor in 1 in 3 divorces. Drink takes a very high toll on children's lives and opportunities.
37

Lucy131,

London 17/06/2008 17:31:58
Making the age of purchase 21 or over will not solve binge drinking. The government should focus on enforcing the laws that already exist. This is another policy that will temporarily pacify those worried about alcohol related problems but will not make any impact long term. And once again, responsible drinkers are left out of the debate. Those over 18 can vote, marry, join the army but they won't be able to purchase alcohol?! It seems that the government make these decisions without listening to the voice of the majority. I have just signed up to www.responsibledrinkersalliance.co.uk and I urge you do the same if you are concerned about the voice of the moderate drinker being ignored. I think it's so important that we have a say.
38

ThePeter,

Glasgae 17/06/2008 18:48:59
Thought that USA went through prohibition to try to stop the kind of social problems that we have - look what heppened - it did not work

In countries in Europe young teenagers can get drink and behave properly....

Methinks that our government is useless, not only does it not learn proper lessons from other countries, it only applies the REALLY STUPID ONES...
39

Calvinist,

17/06/2008 21:32:53
I do not see this as a problem that is confined to the young. Almost any night of the week, from my tenement window I observe numerous middle aged men and women and, occasionally an elderly person, in a state of drunken collapse. Perhaps the reason why some young people have developed such an irresponsible attitude towards drink is that those of us that belong to the older generation set them such a bad example.
40

The Bish,

East end Weegie 17/06/2008 22:43:34
In 1999 MacAskill was detained in London before the Euro 2000 second leg play-off match between Scotland and England on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly. (Source Wikpedia.)

Hud Kenny been doon the ‘Offy’ fur a cairry oot before the gemme?
Nae chance he wis under twinty wan!
Wan rool fur thae politishuns and anither fur the rest o’ us!

The majority of posters on this subject seem to concur that bans or further legislation is not necessary, that the existing laws be enforced rigorously, and that the law abiding citizen whatever their age should not be penalised due to the criminal actions of others.

Might I suggest that the same logic be applied also to calls for an air gun ban?
41

DouglasT,

17/06/2008 23:03:53
A petition on the Number 10 website. Asking Brown to ditch the Lisbon treaty.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Abandon-Lisbon/

over 10,000 already.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.