Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Saturday, 19th July 2008 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Anger as lawyer cites dress of sex victim, 15



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 08 March 2008
AN MSP has called for action to be taken against a lawyer who told a court a young sexual assault victim had been "behaving as if she was over 16".
She also called for a change in the law to prevent such comments in court.

Roseanna Cunnigham said the lawyer who defended Rikki Tainsch, who sexually assaulted a 15-year-old girl, acted in an "appalling manner".

Iain Smith had told the court:
"I don't think it is fair to say this was a very vulnerable person. There was a suggestion the girl had been sexually active before.

"The complainer was wearing shorts, black boots and a white top. She was trying to dress older than her years. She behaved as if she was over 16."

Now Ms Cunningham, SNP member for Perth and a former lawyer, is demanding the Scottish Parliament changes the law to prevent defence lawyers arguing victims of sexual assault are to blame for their ordeal.

She said: "I was utterly appalled to read of the arguments used by the defence lawyer in this case. Sadly, however, I am not surprised.

"This case underlines much of what is wrong with the way in which our legal system deals with rape and sexual offences.

"To use as mitigation the way in which a 15-year-old girl was dressed or to question her sexual history should be absolutely unacceptable.

"The victim was under 16 and that makes her vulnerable. There should have been no question about that.

"No wonder so many victims of sexual crimes are unwilling to report their experiences to the police if this is the sort of treatment they can expect, should the case come to trial."

She said she would be writing to the Lord Advocate, the Solicitor General, the Justice Minister and the Law Society of Scotland to find out "what action will or can be taken both against the lawyer in question and to stop the use of this sort of defence in court in the future".

"There can be no excuse for rape or sexual assault," she said. "The law must recognise that."

Ms Cunningham lodged a motion in the Scottish Parliament on Thursday condemning Mr Smith's comments.

She added: "The Scottish Parliament can change legislation and this is what I'm aiming for. This week we heard Elish Angiloini, Lord Advocate, condemn Scotland's low conviction rates on rape and saw Rape Crisis launch a campaign to change perceptions. Yet why should we expect the public to change their attitudes when lawyers get away with this sort of comment?"

Tainsch, 24, who appeared at Perth Sheriff Court on Wednesday, said he had been cruising the streets in his car with two friends when he spotted what he said was a scantily-dressed girl doing a pole-dance.

After picking her up he took her back to his flat where he plied her with vodka and Irn-Bru before sexually assaulting her as she lay drunk on his bed.

Sheriff Lindsay Foulis imposed a three-year probation order on Tainsch and placed him on the Sex Offenders Register.

He was also ordered to carry out 275 hours' unpaid community work and told to attend the Tay Project rehabilitation course for sex offenders.





The full article contains 549 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Hermitage,

Edinburgh 08/03/2008 08:20:44
If the girl had taken more responsibility for her own actions, ie not dressing provocatively, being out at all hours, drinking etc, etc, she would not have found herself in this situation.

If they behave like tats, then they should take the consequences.
2

Argyll on line,

Scotland 08/03/2008 08:45:44
Surely the inappropriate and provocative dress and behaviour of many young females has to be a mitigating factor in any sex crime?
3

james 1st,

hamilton 08/03/2008 09:00:44
were her parents charged for not being in control of her;
stupid politicians seem not to understand that it can be impossible to tell a girl age if she is well developed and claims to be older than she really is, if this girl did so was she charged;
the man sounds like a real b you should not supply anyone with drink to get them drunk to have sex, so he does deserve punished
4

yockel,

08/03/2008 09:29:49
It is utterly unacceptable for an MSP to table a motion criticising an individual citizen in this way. If MSPs consider such activity to be within their remit it reflects very badly on the quality of representation we have in Scotland.

Gagging of defence lawyers is the behaviour expected of a totalitarian regime.
Ms Cunningham should engage her brain before opening her mouth. If an ex-lawyer as stated she should be perfectly aware that in the circumstances of this case as reported, the issues raised by the defence were proper and legally relevant.

The sheriff is perfectly capable of controlling his own court with out interference from publicity hungry meddlers.

Does Ms Cunningham propose that lawyers should not be permitted to run lines of defence if they offend her but their clients if defending themselves may? Or is it Ms Cunningham's position that the state will decide whether or not you are allowed to state a defence at all?

Ms Cunningham should withdraw her motion, apologise to The Scottish Parliament for wasting its time, even if that is the norm and issue a public apology to Mr Smith.

Let us please get away from the Nublab style of headline politics and get on with running OUR country.
5

S. A. C.,

Edinburgh 08/03/2008 10:16:53
#1+2, you are brainless morons, this kind of crime is totally out of order, the man would have raped her anyway, regardless of how she dressed!
What if the man had a thing for uniforms, and raped a policewoman or a nurse, would it be their fault? what if he liked females dressed in wellies and cords, big heavy jumpers and body warmers and went out and raped a farmer, would it be their fault?? What if he liked the way old ladies dressed themselves and went out and raped YOUR mothers, would you still be of the same opinion?????????
F*****G IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6

D PATERSON AKA ERIC LOTHIANS,

08/03/2008 10:33:14
#5 sometimes them who doth protest too much (like you) are the ones hiding something !!!
7

Chris,

Edinburgh 08/03/2008 10:44:02
The sheriff should control the behaviour of all in his court. Just as the sheriff in a rape case in South Ayrshire didn't when he allowed the defence lawyer to hold up a pair of small panties and ask the victim if she had worn these on the night in question, despite that fact that she had been modestly dressed in her overclothes. Why did the sheriff not ask that lawyer to hold up his underwear? Either way, she committed suicide because this was just too much for her.
8

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 08/03/2008 11:22:37
#1, good post. Glad someone is talking sense on this issue. Thanks.

9

yockel,

08/03/2008 12:05:10
There does not appear to have been a rape here so why are we talkig about rape?.
10

Stu_R_20,

08/03/2008 13:32:24
#5

An idiot, approaching this in a typically emotive way, try using a bit of sense: The lawyer had every right to cite this in the defence of his client, no matter how much of a scumbag he is.
11

Nikostratos,

08/03/2008 14:50:22

Roseanna Cunningham..................nutter
12

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 08/03/2008 17:00:28
Sickening...
13

Furchrissake,

08/03/2008 17:32:11
If the story had been about a drunk young lad, picked up by a p**f cruising for victims, plied with more drink and raped and then criticised for dressing as a young male, the sick posters above would have plenty to say.

It's time castration was the punishment for child sex abusers.
14

Furchrissake,

08/03/2008 17:34:13
9# A 15 year old child is under the age of consent. Unable to consent = rape
15

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 08/03/2008 18:29:59
#14, ah yes. A sexless, scantily-dressed "child" pole-dancing. How sweet.
16

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 08/03/2008 19:22:30
15...Actually this was a daft 15 year old girl in their usual clobber swingin roon a lamp post, doubt very much if they teach them 'pole dancing' at her school...however if you choose to see her as a sexy scantily dressed temptress then that is a good indication of your stance re this crime...

Sad...a 15 year old girl is sexually assaulted and the debate descends into what she was wearing...but then some of you need to justify the behaviour of men who rape and sexually assault women...strangely enough....

Maybe we should go back to the Victorian mode of dress...that way men will not rape women or sexually assault women...it will all stop and we will live happily ever after....in fact time to hide those table legs folks....positively indecent and can send a chap deranged with lust....

A 15 year old girl is sexually assaulted and their is animosity towards her because of her mode of dress and immature behaviour....sad...

She was behaving as if she were over 16...and the point is?....it would be allright had she been over 16?....a sexual predator sexually assaults a drunken women he has plied with with alcohol and this would have been acceptable...

Case scenario...women picks up 15 year old boy, gets him steamin and sexually assaults him....of course had he been wearing his Calvin Kline's hanging out his jeans he would have been asking for it eh?...and had he been dancing round a lamp post...well....gagging for it if you ask me!!.....
17

JG,

Fife 08/03/2008 23:56:50
Some of these comments highlight exactly why there are so few convictions for rape. This silly wee lassie should have been able to walk down the street naked without being attacked/preyed upon. If seeing a girl/woman scantily dressed causes some men to become aroused and not in control of themselves how is it her fault? If they can't control themselves BLAME THEM!
18

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 09/03/2008 00:30:04
Unfortunately JG...this will always be the case...there is so much shortsightedness when it comes to responsibility it is scary...some of the attitudes on this forum are reminiscent of other more fundamental religious attitudes and I think it is just a reflection of the way people still view women in society....women are not supposed to be sexy or enjoy sex...any demonstrations of sexuality are still seen as the mark of a loose woman...fascinating really...so much nudity and porn in your face...that many men enjoy and buy...lusted after but at the same time despised...

These attitudes are the problem...men are not dogs that need to mount the nearest female as and when they see fit...why blame women?
19

Jock's Away,

Africa 09/03/2008 07:01:49
A 15 year old girl came to grief in Goa India another is sexually assaulted in Edinburgh? In parts of Britain a girl of that age could be shipped out east as a bride. The parents are key, where is their responsibility for the child? These Children are bombarded by sexuality, from the media, girls magazines, TV Soaps, marketing and peer groups, where are the counter values? Their rights are drummed into them, where is the other part of the equation, their responsibilities? and the consequences?
It is no good the likes of Rosanna Cunningham "prancing around like a gelding in a stud farm." Without the guidance, values, and protection of parents, family and society, children of both sexes can and will become victims of their own ignorance and lack of awareness. Truism: Be careful what you wish for it my come true.
20

Giffnock Tim,

GLASGOW 09/03/2008 09:48:04
In my opinion what the defence solicitor said did not change the crime but like all crimes there can be aggravating and mitigating elements. The younger the person the more the aggravation and therefore what he said was an attempt to mitigate.
At very least Roseanna he was entitled to say it. It is equally open to the court to consider it and then determine it does not mitigate. As another poster said however it is not for Government ministers to tell lawyers what they may and may not say by way of mitigation. There is far too much in the way of attempts by governments to erode the ditinction between executive and judiciary.
I note with interest incidentally Ms Cunningham seems to have gone well outwith her portfolio as a minister. If the government had something to say should it not have come from the Justice Minister, Kenny McAskill or the leadership ie Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon?
21

JG,

Fife 09/03/2008 11:56:15
#20 Giffnock Tim
No he wasn't! Are you saying that, because this attacker was 24 it was OK for him to behave as he did? If he had been 44 it would have unacceptable because he's too old?

The "unacceptable" part of this thing is that the lawyer thought it was OK to shift the blame for a sexual assault onto the shoulders of the victim. As #18 Doreen said - it's people's attitudes that need to be changed. We are little better now as a society in our treatment of women as they were in Victorian times when a man was "lord" over his wife and could use her body whenever he wished.
22

Biker,

Ayr 09/03/2008 12:17:55
21. JG Well said my friend and very well put. I agree entirely with you post.
23

Biker,

Ayr 09/03/2008 12:17:57
21. JG Well said my friend and very well put. I agree entirely with you post.
24

,

10/03/2008 13:34:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 13:40:57
#16, > Case scenario...women picks up 15 year old boy, gets him steamin and sexually assaults him....of course had he been wearing his Calvin Kline's hanging out his jeans he would have been asking for it eh?...and had he been dancing round a lamp post...well....gagging for it if you ask me!!..... <

As you know as well as I do, he certainly would have been. Any fifteen year old boy would!!!
26

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 13:42:28
#16, in fact, what you describe would be any 15 year old boy's dream!
27

Allan(handofgod137),

10/03/2008 15:12:19
So why have her parents escaped prosecution, as I'll bet it wasn't the first time she's gone out looking like a tart and got drunk.
28

JG,

Fife 10/03/2008 15:32:40
#27 Alan
Heaven forbid that a young girl should go out looking like all of the pop stars kids currently dance along to. Hey, I know! Let's stop women going out unless they're completely covered just so the poor, susceptible men-folk aren't tempted to lose control of themselves. If her parents deliberately filled her full of drink then go ahead - prosecute them!
29

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 16:31:00
#28, don't you take elementary precautions yourself, like making sure your house is locked up when you go out and that your wallet isn't poking temptingly out of your back pocket?
30

Allan(handofgod137),

10/03/2008 17:47:41
#28 JG It's all very well going out like that when you've got a team of minders to protect you, and the limo will pick you up when you fall out of the club sh*tfaced. As to her parents, the odds are she got the money to get drunk from them, with the full knowledge that this is what it would be spent on. Your rants lead me to believe that you're just another irresponsible parent who doesn't care what the kids are up to as long as they're not bothering you!
31

JG,

Fife 10/03/2008 18:23:33
#29 Urban Guerrilla
I take it if your wallet was showing when you went for a night out then, it would be OK for me to kick your head in and take it? Or if I was a gay man and you had your top 3 buttons undone provocatively on your shirt, it would be fine if I grabbed you and assaulted you on your way home? And remember, this was a 15 year old girl - they actually aren't as smart as they think they are.

#30 Allan
Why don't you direct your venom at the 24 year old guy who picked on a 15 year old girl and sexually assaulted her? Read the article again - it says HE plied her with drink after he found her "pole dancing" (or "swingin roond a pole" as Doreen said) and took her back to his flat. I could accept that a guy could mistake a dressed up 15/16 year old for someone 18/19, but is HE so thick he couldn't spot it when he spoke to her (if the article is accurate SHE didn't drink until he took her home with him)? Ever spoken to a 15 year old girl recently? I think you'd notice the difference between the prattle of a wee girl and the chat of an older girl.
32

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 18:38:48
#31, as regards the wallet, it wouldn't be OK, but I certainly think I'd be partly to blame because of my own carelessness. As regards the unbuttoned shirt, that's at the low end of the range of provocation - but if a straight man took his shirt off and deliberately struck sexy poses at night in the bushes on the Calton Hill I'd definitely say he was an idiot and was asking for trouble.
33

JG,

Fife 10/03/2008 21:11:00
#32 Urban Guerrilla
That's part of the problem - people don't take responsibility for their behaviour. You should be able to walk about the town with £20 notes sticking out of your pockets. Of course it wouldn't be your fault if someone robbed your wallet - we should all stop making excuses for criminals. And the girl in this incident was fully covered - there is nothing to say that she was dancing around the streets naked or partially clothed and even if she was, it's the fault of the guy who couldn't control himself.
34

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 11:38:49
#34, > Of course it wouldn't be your fault if someone robbed your wallet <

There we differ. I say it would, and that I'd have only myself to blame. There are plenty of bad people around, and we're daft if we don't take sensible precautions to protect ourselves against them.
35

JG,

Fife 11/03/2008 15:03:31
#34 Urban Guerrilla
And therein lies the problem. We all have to take precautions against being targeted by criminals but it's time we all stopped justifying their dreadful behaviour because we failed to protect ourselves. Just because you accidentally leave your fat wallet sticking out of your trouser pocket doesn't make it your fault if someone steals it. It's high time we started blaming those responsible for crimes and stopped being apologists for virtually everything.
36

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 16:42:12
#36, I think it's being realistic rather than being an apologist. There are always going to be bad people out there. I'm not interested in blaming them or justifying them so much as in preserving ourselves and those we care about from harm.

Maybe it's going too far to say that blaming villains for committing crimes is as futile as blaming a nettle for stinging us (what we do is avoid nettles, rather than blame them!); but, let's face it, many of these people are always going to be villains, whatever we do or say. So I'd rather keep myself safe from them than enter into a moral debate about their motivations, which does nothing to keep my wallet intact!
37

Richardinho,

12/03/2008 08:37:06
The most shocking is that the rapist was not put in jail. if you are a rapist, clearly Scotland is the place to be as it's not regarded as a serious crime.
38

,

22/03/2008 21:22:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
39

Johnnyf,

Dundee 19/04/2008 06:53:59
Well, if Ms Cunningham spent more time trying to change laws (Go On Roseanna yir making a right c***t of government, as the majority of the Scottish public,who really didn't vote fir you knew was going to happen. You know, there has always been suspicion surrounding SNP about their true political beliefs, you know "Tartan Tories" and that, and, they bore it out with engaging the support of the Conservative party(who scarcely have had an MP in Scotland for many years(you know, like elected (with the Australian or American inflection on the "ion") to get their "well planned" imaginary budget passed) rather than taking issues with defence lawyers, who are the slimiest, most arrogant and dispensible creatures in our society, which we've always known, we may have not had the rape (twice while the police were outside the offender's flat in Edinburgh. The man has been convicted twice for offences against young boys and well known to the police and "caring community" ie. social workers.
Like most of you, I pay a lot of income tax and find it unacceptable to be paying money to keep scum like that alive. For many years, in Sweden, voluntary castration has been an option for a sex offender, oh eh, and once they've had that done, execute them by repeatedly sticking a pole up their rectum.
However, absolutely no sympathy for the young "lady" in the original story. I work with young people and some things ye hear would mak yir Granny blush.
40

Ghostman,

Highland 20/04/2008 09:39:44
Nothing new I went to high school in Glasgow in the mid sixties and some of the girls dressed in a manner that would be considered provocative even now, make up, mini skirts.knee length kinky boots.Those were the days.
41

Anaconda,

USA 09/07/2008 10:58:57
We have a serious crime problem here in the US the majority of which is committed by "minorities" both home grown and illegal. According to Federal crime statistics approximately 35,000 rapes are committed against European American women each year by Blacks and other minorities whereas fewer than 10 are reported where the rapist is White and the victim Black. This of course does not include the many other crimes of violence committed by the same segment of society.

I'm reading the articles in Scotsman with great surprise at the number of reported rapes and murders and so many of which are perpetrated upon young teenage girls. Another curious point is the absence of photographs of the perpetrators.
In the US the media always give a vague description of perpetrators e.g the suspect was wearing a black jacket and a baseball cap. Rarely is a mention made of the race of the perpetrator unless he is caught on a surveillance video which speaks for itself. Most people here consider that omission to be deliberate so as not to arouse panic in the populace by emphasizing what everyone already knows.
Does any of you suspect that the same thing is afoot in Scotland or has it always be so vis a vis the description and photos of suspects?
The only exception I noticed in my short time reading Scotsman was the case of the beating death of Emma the young prostitute by four men described as being Turkish immigrants.

Has violent crime in general increased in proportion to the number of immigrants from Third world Countries?
42

Anaconda,

09/07/2008 11:06:12
#37
Richardinho,
Has Scotland always been rather cavalier in its attitude toward rape or is this a new phenomenon?

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.