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Nothing about Larkhall is black and white

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Published Date: 29 August 2007
GREEN is a colour noticeable by its absence in Larkhall, the small town with the big reputation as Scotland's most sectarian community. Ask the average person what the name of the Lanarkshire town conjures up and the most likely answer is tattoos, Rangers tops and Protestant marching bands.
Yet is this town of new-build homes and old miner rows perched on the edge of the Clyde Valley itself a victim of prejudice?

As the sign welcoming visitors exclaims in multi-coloured letters - two green and two blue, a rare example of balance: "Larkhall: take a closer look".

Yet however close you look, green, the colour of nature in any other country, but in the west of Scotland a symbol of Celtic Football Club, is rarely seen. A drive around Larkhall reveals one green door; the majority are white or brown with more than a few blue.

Larkhall, it has been claimed, has a problem with the colour green, the most recent victim being the traffic light which signals go, 205 of which have gone since 2004 in acts of vandalism that have cost the local council £16,880 in repairs. Optimists point to the fact that the green light is closest to the ground; pessimists, including one local police officer who preferred not to be named, believe sectarianism is behind attacks on a colour associated with Celtic and so the Catholic Church.

Just visit Subway, the sandwich chain which opened in the town's main street a few weeks ago. Its standard livery is green throughout Britain. In Larkhall it is black, a decision a spokesman for the company said may have been due to "planning and environmental issues".

Larkhall is certainly an environment unsympathetic towards the colour green. Five years ago Moss Pharmacy in the town changed its front colours from green and white to red, white and blue, while there have been reports that Telewest boxes - originally green - were vandalised and reappeared blue. Locals say that in Hamilton, a chain of Indian restaurants is green and white, while the Larkhall branch is blue and white.

The most prominent example of the promotion of colours associated with unionism is the railings of Glenview Memorial Park. In the past they were red, white and blue. In the 1990s, the council painted them municipal green, an act which proved unpopular. In 2001, a resident painted a stretch red, white and blue, and with the support of Karen Gillon, the local Labour MSP, the Queen's colours were then retained by the council.

The capitulation of Subway has annoyed many. Richard Benjamin, campaign director of Nil By Mouth, said it was "unjust, undeserved and serves only to reinforce the town's stereotype". While Sandy Todd, headmaster of Machanhill primary in Larkhall, said: "This is not very helpful".

In the high seats by the window of the new Subway store, one local mother, who like many residents equates giving her name with "smashed windaes", said: "It's so embarrassing - imagine living in a town where people can't tolerate the colour green - you'll no see green wheelie bins. I had one and they set it alight." Like many people we spoke to, she believes sectarianism is ingrained, but at the same time is not as bad as many people might imagine. "You've got a minority of nutters who'll cause trouble, but that's about it."

A local taxi driver had a darker view. When asked how big a problem sectarianism was in Larkhall, he pointed to the Subway sign as evidence and said: "It's rotten to the core." The younger generation was more optimistic. Grant Robertson, 22, who works in a warehouse, insisted: "It's nowhere near as bad as people think. It's mainly just friends slagging each other off about what team they support." Kerry Brown, 24, a barmaid at the local snooker club, which prohibits any football colours, said: "You have a few troublemakers who go after the colour green - what are they going to do next, go after the grass?"

While Irish immigrants were able to mix successfully in towns such as Paisley, Greenock, Ayr and Kilmarnock, historians believe anti-Catholicism to have been greater in mining towns such as Larkhall, where Irish Catholics were used by pit owners to break strikes. So the fuel was as much economic fear as it was cultural dilution of Protestant stock, the idea which found support in sections of the Church of Scotland in the 1920s and 1930s.

Catholics, who account for just 2,000 out of the town's population of 15,000 are no longer feared as economic rivals. They have gathered to celebrate mass in community halls in Larkhall since 1872, but when there was enough support to fund the construction of a church in 1905, the local council insisted St Mary's be built on the outskirts of the town. Today, the parish enjoys strong ecumenical relations with the town's other religious denominations. The local St Vincent de Paul group, a charitable organisation whose assistance is not restricted to Catholics, receives donations from the local Rangers Supporters Club, Orange Order and Masonic lodge.

The parish priest for the past 30 years, Canon Henry McGinn, 85, took umbrage at reports in the Catholic press that he was too fearful to walk the streets in a dog collar, which, in fact, he is rarely without. The attitude of the local Catholic community, which may surprise some people, is that the town has been unfairly treated.

Simon Dames, a press officer with the Scottish Catholic Media Office, said: "Over decades, anti-Catholicism has been marginalised throughout Scotland. The majority of the decent people of Larkhall are no different to anywhere else in the country. Any disharmony is caused by the same antisocial tendencies you would find in other towns in Scotland and is therefore not peculiar to Larkhall."

RESIDENTS 'PIG-SICK OF BEING STIGMATISED'


IT HAS been more than three years since Inspector Willie Black of Strathclyde Police took over responsibility for Larkhall and, despite the town's reputation, the police officer insists levels of sectarian offences are no higher than in his previous beats in Glasgow.

Although he did not have the most recent figures immediately to hand, he explained that in recent months, the only complaints have concerned the singing of sectarian songs or music being played at loud volumes.

Even during the marching season, when as many as 30 bands can arrive in the town on a Friday night, recent complaints have merely concerned buses blocking access to property.

While he is aware that some residents would refrain from reporting any complaints to the police for fear of reprisals - as one resident put it: "talking to the police just ensures your eviction" - he believes the perception of the town is unwarranted. "When we do have trouble it is usually the work of a small minority, which is what happens in many other areas in the country."

According to Peter Craig, a local SNP councillor, Larkhall has been unfairly stigmatised by the media. "The reputation Larkhall has got is simply not justified. Any problems it does have are shared by many other places in the west of Scotland. Yet there are urban myths about Larkhall that are continuing to be reported.

"I don't believe that the smashing of traffic lights has anything to do with sectarianism, and it has nothing to do with religion, but it has everything to do with vandalism.

"The vast majority of the people of Larkhall are pig-sick of being tarred with the same brush as a few idiots. It's quite simple. If you want to find people who will voice sectarian views, you will be able to do that, just as you are able to do that anywhere in Scotland, but the vast majority in the town want nothing to do with it."

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29/08/2007 01:05:22
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29/08/2007 01:09:46
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3

Gnasher,

29/08/2007 01:19:59

If the trouble is the work of a small minority, then the cops and the council and the "decent majority" should extirpate the thugs and sectarians.

I don't believe this. These people actually are quite proud of the attention.

For so long as this rubbish goes on, stop spending public money on the town and build a fence around it - covered in that vandal proof grease so they can't paint it blue.

4

Name,

29/08/2007 01:21:10

Larkhall is one of the most racist parts of Scotland I've ever visited never mind sectarian!

5

Gnasher,

29/08/2007 01:22:59

Navvy is correct. They all call it a dog collar. But the tight ones wear an ordinary black shirt, cut a strip out of a white washing up liquid bottle, and stick it under their shirt collar. True fact.

6

dixon,

29/08/2007 01:45:13

Scotland's most sectarian community? I think the residents of Harthill would dispute that dubious title.

7

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 29/08/2007 03:14:11

As one born and bred in the north-east of Scotland this moronic, antediluvian attitude is still totally lost on me. A christened Protestant (Cof S, but non-practising), I have friends in that part of sick Scotland who just happen to be of the Catholic religion.

I have to say I dislike being called a "Proddie" by some of those friends of said Catholic friends. An unknown title where I come from.

I lived with these friends many years ago on many occasions and was aware and strangely scared of wearing colours that might either "offend" or bring upon myself grievous bodily harm. Scary.

There exists in the west of Scotland a residual stupidity born of 19th-century Irish immigration. Loyalists, as they laughably designate themselves (Protestant so-called) support the team that wears blue (a colour I actually like and which the English Tory Party appropriated, but there we go).

I also like the colour green, but I have to be careful of where I wear it in west-central Scotland if I value my life. How bloody stupid.

When this west of Scotland idiocy disappears so will the hate that divides the supporters of Scotland's two major football teams. These teams are important to all of Scotland and I support both in Europe as being representative of my country. But this is usually spolied by idiots - those that wave Union flags and chant God Save the Queen (what the hell is that about?), and a fragment of the other lot that chant IRA thug rubbish.

It is notable that another city, south of the border, harbours another Irish emigrant diaspora. That place is called Liverpool. The supporters of Everton and Liverpool will go side by side to crunch games against each other and will always go and leave the games, regardless of result, as friends.

A lesson there?

8

Encephalon,

29/08/2007 04:32:53

"Larkhall, the small town with the big reputation as Scotland's most sectarian community"

Always thought that honour belonged to Coatbridge-but then again Mr McGinty is another- presumably RC reporter -with a very blinkered one-sided view of sectarianism.

Larkhall like many other parts of the central belt also had a large number of Irish immigrants but there just like in Bridgeton and Airdrie etc the immigrants were overwhelmingly protestant Ulster-Scots whereas Coatbridge was overwhelmingly Irish RC. It is wrong, offensive and downright bigoted to portray one community as being inherrently more sectarian.

One man and his dog knows that the biggest cause of sectarianism in Scotland is-our apartheid education system perpetuated by the RC Church for its own selfish reasons. I might take McGinty and his ilk more seriously when they start to highlight this -rather than trying to avoid the crux of the issue and reduce it to a petty point scoring exercise about football rivalries.

Wake-up McGinty Old firm football rivalry and petty squabbles over the colours of railings is but a manifestation of the problem -not its root cause!

9

Proper Job,

29/08/2007 05:15:08

For the rest of us, there is only one thing to be thankful for. These narrow-minded morons can't handle travelling further than Ibrox, and even then only for a couple of hours, so they take their evil back to their proud home town every night. We outsiders can judge them, but only they can create a better social scene -- something I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for.

10

David Burness,

LARKHALL 29/08/2007 05:35:10

At first I was bemused by the article. But as a resident here I think I will comment. I have a green car. I get no stick for it at whatsoever. I find the constant theft of green lenses irritating, but its got like that traffic cone on the Wellington statue outside the Modern Art Museum in Glasgow. Its an act of resistance to authority, not of bigotry.

I have a lot of experience of other towns and villages in Lanarkshire , and while I know Larkhall's reputation, I think you will find a far far greater degree of bigotry in Blantyre and Coatbridge. Painting a railing red white and blue pales ( pails ) in comparison with filling in a green form or a pink form in a job application.

Racism? Thats a nasty charge to make stick. We have a lot of carry out shops here and I dont recall seeing any grafitti on any. And several of the neighbours are of asian extraction. I do recall reading the list of staff in the Citz theatre a couple of years back however and noted the relative absence of chinese or obviously asian names in a large list of staff. Surely a large employer would have a profile for staff that wasnt too greatly different to the ethnic mix in its available labour pool?

Larkhall is just another little Scottish town struggling to have some purpose in a time when its major employers have all left. Calling it names or doing it down does the people of all faiths and none no service at all. Why not highlight its skills base or its location on the motorway? Try to help, not hobble the town.

11

Boy Wonder,

29/08/2007 06:07:36

Larkhall ... only good for passing through like many Scottish towns that have lost all their industries and are stuck in a weird time-warp of times agone!

12

Gregorf,

For a population of 16,000 odds 29/08/2007 06:16:00

'Even during the marching season, when as many as 30 bands can arrive in the town on a Friday night'

just about sums the place up.

13

frhugh,

Edinburgh 29/08/2007 06:41:05

A few years ago I was in a rehab, and was sent to Larkhall for support meetings. The people could not have been more welcoming and supportive, and one of the finest men, who does a power of work, for all denominations and none comes from Larkhall.
I experienced no religious bigotry whatsoever - quite the opposite.
Perhaps all of Scotland could learn that any and all bigotry can be completely overcome by trying to practice the 12 Steps.

14

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 29/08/2007 06:45:01

#13 It is a bit unfair that everyone from Larkhall gets tarred with the same brush. My own brother-in-law is from there - married to my sister who is a Catholic - and he and his family have never had a problem with it.

But then stereotyping is something is a habit that dies hard for a lot of Scots - Aberdonians are still considered to be mean; Dundonians the "unwashed" and so on. Tackling bigotry is important but we should also put aside any pre-conceived perceptions when dealing with the issue.

As a Catholic some of the worst bigots I have met were other Catholics - they needed fish to go with all the chips they carried on their shoulders. Bigotry works both ways and is not the sole preerve of one community or another.

15

Paul Voltaire,

29/08/2007 06:56:45

Larkhall is a wee toilet of a place.
Still, it is better than Harthill I suppose.

16

Harriet the Spy,

Edinburgh 29/08/2007 06:58:44

I was born in Larkhall, and shuddered to read this. But I've not lived there since 1972 when, aged 6 months, my parents moved closer to Glasgow. It reflects some of the comments that mum & dad made when I asked them why we moved - dad having painted our front door green to match our car when we first moved in before realising...

However, on a point of accuracy the article speaks about Larkhall 'only' having 2000 Catholics in a population of 15000 - a quick glance at the 2001 census figures shows that in Scotland around 16% identified themselves as Catholic - and what's 16% of 15000? Around 2,400 - if that's your hard evidence that Larkhall is so sectarian Catholics won't live there its hardly damning, is it?

I'm not sure that finger pointing and calling a town names (what does that sound like...? Oh, racism, sectarianism or another -ism) is the best way to help solve these 'problems' - calling one place the most racist, sectarian, sexist, agist etc lets all of the others off the hook. Any sort of inequality - where it exists - is something that must be tackled everywhere, by everyone.

17

donald,

weegieland 29/08/2007 07:03:22

Orange Larkhall, Harthill and Brigton, Like Green Coatbridge, Croy and Roystonhill have something else in common. They have always weighed in the Unionist Labout vote. Coincidence?

"Home Rule is Rome Rule"/A Free Scotland is a Free Kirk".

18

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 07:05:00

What a pathetic collective attitude by this town.
Childish, hate-filled biggoted knuckle- dragging scum. Instead of pandering to these morons,
decent companies should avoid the place like the plauge. What an international embarresment.

There should be wide, cross-party support for the
smashing of this kind of mob mentality. Put it under the full glare of publicity and show these morons up for what they are. All of Scotland's problems encapulated in one town.

And to think the local Labour MP backed them up in their objection to green railings.

19

donald,

weegieland 29/08/2007 07:05:36

".. Rangers tops and Protestant marching bands..."

Correction. Orange bands. Ask the Church of Scotland for the difference.

20

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 07:33:38

donald # 20

Sophistry.

21

paulr,

29/08/2007 07:41:59

It's not just Larkhall, go a couple of miles down the road to Bellshill, it's almost as bad, the whole area is riddled with prejudice and sectarianism.

22

BK,

Cyberspace 29/08/2007 07:43:43

When is Wee Wendy going to expel this disgraceful bigot of an MSP for encouraging vandalism and participating in prejudice? I thought New Labour were supposed to stand against bigotry! Or is it OK for their MSPs to indulge in religious bigotry when that wins the votes of the local neds?

23

Daibhidh,

29/08/2007 07:45:25

This is a sad, sad marr on Scotland...these small-minded, biogted people people should be shown the door...

24

A.FAN,

Hamilton 29/08/2007 07:54:17

As someone who worked there for seven years and is still in the town regularly, it is obvious that with the exception of 11 and one or two more, none of the above have ever been in Larkhall. It is a victim of a very few, but well reported, incidents. I only experienced one example of sectarianism in the time I was there- it was from a 'nutcase' and his facts were wrong. ie. I am not a Catholic. Canon McGinn, the local Parish Priest IS a 'weel kent face' in the town and has been there for more years than he would care to remember - and surely would have moved on if the place was so intolerent. Yes the town has suffered from the closure of industry, such as DAKS Simpson, but like other places, that was to take production abroad and not for any other reason. The town is being re-invigorated by the new Railway line that serves it well and by new housing that has followed. Stirring up old and mainly untrue or exagerated stories from the past is unhelpful and makes me wonder what the agenda of Mr McGinty actually is.Or was it just another day when NEWS was hard to come by for The Scotsman.

25

Bobo,

29/08/2007 08:00:16

Incredible that anyone who has been to any of Northern Ireland's horrid little loyalist towns feels a desire to recreate them here. It only goes to show what low levels of self-esteem these individuals suffer from. Evidenced in the towns concerened not just by the red, white and blue garbage pictured above but also by the litter strewn streets, untended gardens and obese residents.

26

livi for me,

Livingston 29/08/2007 08:09:01

#19 A bit harsh if you've never been there to know if any of this story has substance. I've only been there once many years ago to a darts game, i can't remember there being any sectarian goings on when i was there, i've heard all the stories about the place but TBH can't say i thought it any different from any other pub or place i visited when i played in a darts league at the time. I can only judge a place on my experience and others should do the same instead of commenting on things based on reputations or hearsay.

27

BK,

Cyberspace 29/08/2007 08:27:10

#27 I have been there many times and can assure you that the story is very true - if anything it is understated. Blue signs on shops that normally have green on their logos, red white and blue railings and orange swings in children's playparks, anti-catholic graffiti everywhere, Buckfast swilling louts in rangers tops in the streets, smashed green traffic lights - I've seen it all there. The fact that the MSP seems to condone this bigotry makes her and her party a disgrace to Scotland.

28

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 08:51:11

This article is just more guff.
Once more a collection of hearsay and innuendo that, if it was directed at RCs, black people or Jews, would be condemned as racialist and sectarian propaganda worthy of a Goebells.
You want sectarian areas?
Try Roystonhill or Croy, but not after dark.

29

Riley Hamish,

EDINBURGH 29/08/2007 08:51:56

As one born and raised in Jack McConnell's Wonderful Wishaw (NOT) it ill behoves me to slag off another of lanarkshire's misery spots.However, it really has to be said that for many of its residents,"Mad Larkie", as it is known in that part of Scotland, really does take a perverse joy in its reputation as a stronghold of Rangers/Orangism.
Should you be in any doubt,, just sample the local pub atmosphere at the w/ends (e.g. try Fram's as only one of many examples) where a selection of tattoo'd knuckle dragging and generally dwarf-like locals scream abuse at the TV where some poor steed, is being wildly berated,( unfortunate enough to have been the unwitting recipient of the barrage of abuse), struggles to provide a return on the doubtless ill-considered wager made by the foam- dripping wide-eyed trogladyte standing unsteadily(doubtless in his imitation Lacoste trainers.....well it IS the weekend) unintentionally, but nevertheless effectively, sprayin' the remnants of a half-masticated cold meat pie, expelled through decayin' teeth at surprising velocities through a hail of spit and expletive.
West of Scotland culture.don'tcha just love it....and Larkhall, while far from alone, is a shining example.

30

Iwama,

29/08/2007 08:59:15

An incredible co-incidence of the timing of the piece the day after a great result for a Scottish team in Europe? We should be told. Although I do enjoy all the "aghast of Scotland" bigots who like to think that any subject of this nature gives them free reign to spout their anti Protestantisms. Admit it ladies you know thats the truth! Joke subject by an increasingly joke newspaper and absorbed and believed by some right crackers.
I'm away to eat my nice Orange coloured orange, make up my Green coloured salad leaves with Gold (ish!) pepper strips andBlue cheese!!
I wish peace and love on you all.

31

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 09:11:58

Iwama # 32

To lift the stone on the antics of the the lowlifes in Larkhall is anti-protestant? That attitude is why they have been able to carry on with their pathetic sectarianism for nearly 150 years.
If Scotland ever wants to be taken seriously internationally they have to put these buffoons firmly in their place.

32

Mr Pink,

29/08/2007 09:12:57

Billy and others

Did you read the article? Clearly not. As it says the incidence of sectarian crime in this town is not any worse than in other supposed Protestant/Catholic areas. This is according to the Police and they should know.

#8 Angus Lindsay

What is the lesson we need to learn from Liverpool? You do not say. Is it that the more you divide children along sectarian lines in the education system, the more likely you are to produce a sectarian country? If it was, I agree.

33

Figgy,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 09:18:24

I get the impression that the writer of this piece is the true bigot.
Lazy journalism at its best.

34

Queen D,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 09:20:05

Blue, green who cares??
Obviously the posters who live and work in Larkhall are the only ones who know what the place is like.
It's back to 'say it often enough and people will believe its true'syndrome.
I'm a mean Aberdonian !!!I married a hard man of Glasgow!!But Iv'e never heard of the 'unwashed of Dundee!!!

35

'Hezza,

29/08/2007 09:28:50

I sometimes get the feeling that people like the sectarianism...in the way that people from scotland often wear the heart attack/hard drinking/deep fried pizza capital of europe tag as a perverse badge of honour. As numerous people have stated, what moronic clap-trap. Ironic thing is Scotland would be free of most of the things I've mentioned if we just cut the west coast around Glasgow off and let it drift out to sea...well, towards northern Ireland, i suppose!

36

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 09:29:28

Of course it is not just Larkhall that there is sectarianism. I have a friend in Glasgow, non-Catholic, who was Christened with Timothy as his first name.
A few out there will already have twigged where this is going.
But, following what could only be described as intolerable sectarianism based on his first name, he now goes by the name of "Andy."
Such intolerance makes a laughing stock of Scotland in general and the West of Scotland in particular. But, if people did not pander to the sectarian elements in our society they would be forced to crawl back under their rocks. So, Timothy use your given name not the pseudonym that the sectarian scum have induced you to use.

37

Mr Pink,

29/08/2007 09:32:09

Beware the myths that tarnish 'sectarian' Scotland.

Look at the most recent research into the media coverage of this topic at

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/comment.cfm?id=171622005

38

livilion,

livingston 29/08/2007 09:33:08

28. BK, Cyberspace
Hold on a minute, I was under the impression that the Orange faction supported the Ulster Unionist Tories and that Labour in Lanarkshire was the safe repository of the Irish catholic vote.

Green phone kiosks being vandalised? Who were the kids in the rest of the country against when they wrecked the red and the yellow ones?

As for shops and restuarants changing their colour schemes, what came first?

The stories about the anti-green militia in Larkhall or the decision by these businesses not to take any chances in case the legends were true?

BTW Memories still linger in these areas of miners on poverty wages, long before the advent of the welfare state, striking to stop wage cuts, trying to protect their families from starvation.

These destitute miners families then being thrown onto the streets by mine owners in favour of imported Irish catholic strike breakers, themselves fleeing famine in Ireland, who were given their jobs and their homes.

So much so that during the war the decision was taken to deliberately undermine Hamilton Palace, the principle mine owner the Duke of Hamilton's stately home, which then saw it become unsafe and subsequently demolished.

I await with breath baited for the corresponding piece on the North Lanarkshire Murphia.

39

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 09:33:50

Is it a coincidence that this poison piece was penned by Mr McGinty, or the piece alleging the traffic light sectarianism was by Martin McLaughlin?
Is the "Scotsman" now just the Embra edition of "Celtic View"?

40

'Hezza,

29/08/2007 09:33:55

And as for those trying to defend Larkhall - come on! Smashing green traffic lights, green bins being set on fire, subway facade done in black, railing being repainted red white and blue.....residents worried about having their 'windies' smashed in. Normal? No problems? Only if you look at the world through red, white and blue tinted glasses. The rest of the right thinking world views you as a bunch of inbred hilltop numpties.

41

jennie,

inv 29/08/2007 09:34:51

The cemetery gates look a real mess, symbolising the mess that is created by people who focus on "isms" to stop thinking about reality.

42

Mr Pink,

29/08/2007 09:42:01

Will any of our politicians ever have the balls to discuss Scotland's real secatarian shame - its Alabama style schooling?

What we get instead is unenlighted debate fueeled by Proddy bashing media coverage (not particularly this article) and a pandering to religious groups' vested interests.

43

,

29/08/2007 09:45:39
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44

livilion,

livingston 29/08/2007 09:50:35

43. jennie, inv
Those gates are at the public park entrance not the cemetry.

I have it that the cemetry does rerr trade in catholic conversions.
Word is that the Orangemen get a priest to administer the last rites so's it's 'wan a rem that goes and no wannae us'.

45

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 09:51:17

Mr Pink # 44

What has the way in which people choose to educate their families in Scotland got to do with you?
You can send your kids to a Catholic school or a non-denominational one if you choose. What is your point?
Why is describing the behaviour of some people in Larkhall, "Proddy bashing"? Do you approve of sectarianism in Larkhall? It certainly seems that way.

46

DeeTillEhDeh,

Bangkok 29/08/2007 09:54:17

#36

Em fae Dundee and as far as eh ken, the tractor boys fae Perth huv iy said we wur a bunch a soap dodgers.

It's no true, eh hud a shower last month.

47

DeeTillEhDeh,

Bangkok 29/08/2007 09:55:31

eh cannae coont, should huv been #46

48

DeeTillEhDeh,

Bangkok 29/08/2007 09:56:20

Eh wiz right the furst time.

49

Peter M,

Spain via Broadwood 29/08/2007 09:57:17

As a Cumbernaulder, I think you'd have to go some to beat Croy (as has been mentioned already).

As has also been mentioned, bigots on both sides are happy to keep it this way....Sad people.

50

chillinbeans,

29/08/2007 10:07:54

'It is notable that another city, south of the border, harbours another Irish emigrant diaspora. That place is called Liverpool. The supporters of Everton and Liverpool will go side by side to crunch games against each other and will always go and leave the games, regardless of result, as friends.'

#8
The city of Liverpool should be grateful that neither of these teams founding fathers' had imposed the ethos used by Celtic's founders...to set up a football club that was a totem for divisiveness and seperation.

51

wayne bijlyeerheid,

Fonapolis 29/08/2007 10:22:17

#52
Exactly.
Neither Liverpool nor Everton were set up on religious/ethnic lines.
You can say the same about Birmingham, a very large Irish community and they support Villa or City in equal numbers.

52

,

29/08/2007 10:25:52
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53

,

29/08/2007 10:25:57
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54

,

29/08/2007 10:37:11
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,

29/08/2007 10:40:38
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56

W Smith,

Middle East 29/08/2007 10:43:40

Bertie Ahern has proved that capitalism and American investors do not discriminate against Irish Catholics.

They do tend to run away from, and 'discriminate' against, loony left high tax governments - just like we have in Scotland.

Not even Irish catholic Sean Connery (on his fathers side) wants to hand over his cash to build this 'fairer society'.

So what's the real problem here?

The big bad proddies with their butcher's apron?

It wouldn't be the failed left-wing economic policies of the Labour Party then eh Mr McGinty?

57

Dazza519,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 11:10:27

I like cheese.

58

Mr Pink,

29/08/2007 11:16:37

#47 Pete

How can you say anything I have written is supporting sectarianism? I havent. Perhaps you are projecting your own prejudices.

This links to research which highlights a. the myths around the subject and b. the one sided nature of the reporting.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/comment.cfm?id=171622005

Sectarian schools produce a sectarian society.

Israel, Apartheid S.A., N.I. Mississippi

See a theme developing?

59

Dazza519,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 11:17:34

Cheddar cheese

60

Bobo,

29/08/2007 11:24:41

#57


You just don't get it - Protestantism and Orangism (which in your case and others appears to amount to "supporting Rangersism") aren't the same thing. What's being attacked here is small minded bigotry by a group of people so caught up in their own tiny world of them and usism that they feel compelled to take out their feelings of low self-esteem and self-hatred on, among oher things, bits of glass. From your tone anyone would think that the article was a denunciation of the Reformation or the principles of presbyterianism.

The saddest thing about places like Larkhall is not so much that these people hate others it's that they quite clearly hate themselves.

61

Deasún,

Glasgow (ex-Coatbridge) 29/08/2007 11:28:04

Encephalon - "Larkhall, the small town with the big reputation as Scotland's most sectarian community"

Always thought that honour belonged to Coatbridge."

Why would you think 'that honour' belonged to Coatbridge? I had a wee bet with myself that Coatbridge's name would be dragged into this by post 5. I was wrong, it was post 9. Why do make this assertion with absolutely no evidence supplied? At least the author of this piece was attempting to analyse and explain the situation in Larkhall, in contrast you simply assert that Coatbridge is Scotland's most sectarian community. Also you, rather conveniently, lay the blame on Catholic Schools. Again, what evidence do you have to back-up this assertion? Denominational schools (which I do not support) exist in many communities without any problems.

I think your slip's showing.

62

Deasún,

Glasgow (ex-Coatbridge) 29/08/2007 11:35:34

William Frederick - You really do have a persecution complex. Your Pavlovian response that Mr McGinty (Irish name alert) is guilty of 'Proddy Bashing' (your choice of words) speaks volumes. Also, why do you bring Coatbridge into this arguement? What evidence do you have that Coatbridge has a significant problem with sectrainaism, as opposed to a reputation?

63

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 11:46:42

Mr Pink , why are catholic schools so devisive in
Scotland but perfectly acceptable across the rest of the UK and europe. Including Holland and Germany where their existence causes no problems at all.
On the contrary non denominational parents try extremely hard to get their kids in.
#40 Thats right livilion blame the irish refugees,
of course.

64

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 29/08/2007 11:48:49

A labour politician supporting the repainting of a green fence into a Brit friendly Blue

Labour keeping the masses in the drak -NO, really?

65

wayne bijlyeerheid,

Fonapolis 29/08/2007 11:50:22

I think this sleazy piece has been written to distract from the Cardinal O'Brien story re. his resignation from Amnesty International over the rights of rapists to father children on their victims.
The fact is that this whole article is nothing but slander and if it was aimed at RCs then we'd be hearing from the cardinal.

Coatbridge is where the council had seperate job applications for Protestants and Catholics.
And a non-Protestant work force policy.

#63
If you know who is carrying out these acts of vandalism, and why, tell the police and write a thesis. Leave the propaganda to Mr McGinty.

66

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 11:57:13

#68 Wayne, is that true about Coatbridge ?
having a non-protestant workforce policy ?
If so, that is actually worse than what's going on in Larkhall. Does anyone know where I can access
more info on this ?.

How prevelant is this at council level?
Are there other faith exclusive councils in Scotland ?
If so we need to take action, now.

I would go so far as to say independence can wait until we clean up this disease.

67

Encephalon,

29/08/2007 11:58:35

#64 dont be silly Coatbridge is as famous for being Green as Larkhall is for being Orange.

As for the evidence for Coatbridge being Green and anti-protestant-do you really want to go there??? eg How can we ever forget the infamous Council jobs discrimination with different coloured application forms for RC's. But then again North Lanarkshire Council was maybe no worse than the Labour bhoys in most of the rest of the WoS-how many years without a Protestant LP of Glasgow?

So as others point out why does McGinty single out Larkhall-what about the Croys, Plains, Carfins etc places that would make someone like myself ie a Scottish Protestant feel like they were in some alien land etc where is the objectivity and balance in this so-called journalism!

68

MB,

Edinburgh 29/08/2007 11:58:49

I love the advert for holiday homes in Ireland that goes with the article - nice work, Scotsman newspaper!:

"Are you one of the 2,000 unfortunate Catholics living in the backward, sectarian hell of Larkhall? Buy a holiday home in Ireland and escape the horror: 1-bed cottages selling for only 2.3 million EUR - buy now!"

69

Mr Pink,

29/08/2007 11:59:00

Billy

The examples you give are irrelevant to the Scottish situation which is more akin to N.I. the Holland fer chris sake.

Also, where in Scotland are 'non denominational parents trying extremely desperately hard to get their kids into RC schools? Deluded.

70

Encephalon,

29/08/2007 12:11:07

#69 if you are not at the wind-up and seriously interested in the reality of the religious discrimination that blights the WoS at council level have a look at the religious affiliations of Glasgow's Lord Provosts over the past 40 years.

As to point #40 if anyone is really interested about learning some of the reality of places like Larkhall and Coatbridge in a historical context I would recommend reading The Lanarkshire Miners A Social History of Their Trade Unions, 1775-1874 which goes into the Orange and Green aspects in some detail.

71

wayne bijlyeerheid,

Fonapolis 29/08/2007 12:12:15

#69 Billy
As #70 Encephalon points out, how can we forget the different coloured application form scandal?
Obviously you and Mr McGinty find it easy.

72

old soldier,

Black Isle 29/08/2007 12:17:10

For goodness sake you lot, we are all Scots or residents of Scotland in the main and others with an interest in Scotland, why do you not all go and bury these chips that you have on your shoulders and get on with making Scotland a better place for us all. Bigotry is just one step away from terrorism from where ever it comes and we really do not want either of them

73

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29/08/2007 12:18:42
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74

Deasún,

29/08/2007 12:20:10

Encephalon - "dont be silly Coatbridge is as famous for being Green as Larkhall is for being Orange."

You might as well say because everybody knows it is; a none answer. As for the "How can we ever forget the infamous Council jobs discrimination with different coloured application forms for RC's". There is no evidence to support this assertion. Certainly there were differently coloured forms (and no doubt discrimination) but strictly along religious lines as opposed to nepotism and cronyism, of which there was plenty? If you are to make this assertion, please supply some evidence. Unfortunately, you appear to see the world simply in terms of Orange and Green, victim and perpetrator. Sad.

75

Bobo,

29/08/2007 12:23:20

#70

For most Scottish people who don't inhabit your mental georgraphy (i.e. the one where the world is divided into Proddies and Catholics) being exposed to it today is like stepping into an alien land.

76

,

29/08/2007 12:23:59
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Very Rev Ian Paisley,

Fond memories, great holidays, intelligent people 29/08/2007 12:24:42

Fir Larkhall and ULSTER.

78

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

Keep yer faith 29/08/2007 12:26:32

and fight fir it

79

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 12:31:19

#77
quote> Certainly there were differently coloured forms (and no doubt discrimination) but strictly along religious lines as opposed to nepotism and cronyism, of which there was plenty?<

Is that supposed to be a denial of Coatbridge's sectarian policy?
Looks like confirmation to me.

80

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 12:40:12

#72 why is the situation more akin to NI ?
why do parents in protestant countries like the ones mentioned have no trouble with Catholic schools but scottish and , of course NI parents have ?

As far as getting kids into Catholic schools , I was referring to the situation on mainland Europe, where Catholic schools are respected .

Did not the last PM convert to catholicism in order for his kids to get in to London Oratrey, a Catholic school ?

#73 I can assure you I am not at the wind-up . I have experienced one faith towns in Northern Ireland, I was not aware the disease was alive and breeding in Scotland. I shall indeed find out more about the social history of the area, however as the book you quote concerns the years 1775-1884 I doubt I will find anything that justifies whats going on in 2007.

#74 oh never mind.

81

Deasún,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 12:41:21

#82 - It's not a denial of anything, just a partial explanation. My point is that discrimination did occur, favouring friends and relations of those in power: "Haw Coonciller X gawny get oor Jimmy a start". Indeed, if Monklands District Council (as it then was) wanted to discriminate along religious lines then they would simply ask you which school you went to...

82

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29/08/2007 12:48:01
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Copper,

Falkirk 29/08/2007 12:48:36

Isn't Great
Only in Scotland

North Lanarkshire votes Labour and the Council still only employs Roman Catholics

South Lanarkshire vote Labour and the Council with their Crony system appoints Gym Teachers as Headmasters and their unqualified mistress's as Deputies

As they say " you could not make it up "

84

,

29/08/2007 12:49:58
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85

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 12:50:22

#84 Deasun
Yes, admitted there was a propensity towards family, and friends of friends of those in power.

Just that they all happened to be RC.

86

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 13:02:20

#87 Wayne , again your post is unfathomable. Where am I only mentioning unionist towns ?

Have I not asked for info (NONE forthcoming ) about
Coatbridge. If you know a council that only employs
catholics then let me know. Facts though please not
stupid accusations.

Also the terms unionist and nationalist should be reserved for the basket case that is NI.
You insult all Scots if you are insinuating we vote along religious grounds. That may be the case in your household, but no way is it indicative of the country as a whole.

87

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 13:05:10

#89
It's unfathomable to me what you are talking about.

88

Freethinker,

Penicuik 29/08/2007 13:05:58

While levels of sectarian-related crime in Larkhall may be on a par with other parts of West-central Scotland (some accolade!) I think the article has assembled enough empirical (rather than anecdotal which many of the above posters refer to) evidence to suggest that the local council and businesses have capitulated to anti-Catholic bigotry by making the changes to paint schemes, shop fronts etc to avoid trouble.

That this should happen in 2007 - and apparently sanctioned by local politicians - is nothing short of a disgrace.

I know a couple of people - ostensibly Protestant and emphatically Rangers-supporting - who HATE the fact that Rangers have to play on a green grass pitch. They go out of their way to avoid buying green clothes and items for their homes (carpets, curtains etc). I am not making this up - they are not my friends as I know them through others.

There used to be stories about Barr's (the soft drink manufacturer) supplying blue-coloured "limeade" and "lime cordial" to Orange Halls and Rangers Supporters Clubs. Like the alleged banning of green-clad pepparami at Ibrox I cannot say whether any of these rumours are true. If any are it says a lot about the mindset of these sad, pathetic self-appointed protecteors of the Reformation and vanquishers of Papism. Get a life you dolts - it's 2007 and not 1690!

Time to 'fess up - because most assuredly I will be asked. Yes, I was baptised Catholic but for all my adult life (+ 30 years) I have been strongly atheist and disagree fundamentally with many policies of the RC church.

I equally oppose bigotry and sectariaism and I'm sad to say that what goes on in Larkhall is an overt manifestation of a (thankfully diminishing) anti-Catholicism which can be traced back to Luther, Knox and Calvin - as well as mass Irish immigration over a century ago.

Can someone remind me - where are the kerbstones painted red, white & blue - Larkhall or Harthill? Ha

89

DavidM,

29/08/2007 13:09:45

I look forward to the follow up article on Coatbridge, and one on Croy for good measure ,seen as there's now been two hatchet jobs on Larkhall.

Well it would be nice to show some balance, eh?

I'll not hold my breath

@89

Perhaps you should do some research on Monklands council.

90

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 13:13:31

#90 Dam ! you got in before I could correct myself. I am ,of course addressing william #87.

91

Deasún,

29/08/2007 13:14:34

#84 - I seem to remember that the enquiry into MDC at the time found that the local authority employed almost 70 relatives of councillors. My point is that the CHEIF motivation was nepotism rather than religious discrimination, although I do accept that the two are not mutually exclusive.

William Frederick - I think that you fail to understand my answer (see above). Substiting 'Paddy and Mick' for 'Jimmy' is simply risible. Quite where you conjour up the word "hatred", is anyone's guess.

92

mags,

canada 29/08/2007 13:15:35

I went to school at the academy and the article is mostly true. I knew many people who on the surface were decent, church going types, no drinking - helping local charities etc. etc. But if their son or daughter came home with a catholic - they would have been disowned. It's not just the obvious in Larkhall - the blue park railings and the FTP graffiti - it is deep seated hatred and discrimination. In the the 21st century it's just so pathetically sad

93

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 13:22:40

#91
Do you believe the traffic light story then?
I don't, I think it's nothing less than bigotted slander.
Likewise your little stories of blue limeade and pepperami banning (aye.....right) are from the same stable.
Why don't you get a life instead of spreading ludicrous propaganda?
It says a lot about the mindset of you, a sad, pathetic self appointed martyr. Get a life you dolt - it's 2007 and not 1916!

94

Bobo,

29/08/2007 13:26:18

Billy and Deasun

I think you're banging your heads against a brick lambeg drum. These people are so stupid they can't even understand your arguments far less naswer any of your well put and reasonable points.

95

wayne bijlyeerheid,

29/08/2007 13:39:31

#97
We've already seen your "points" #s 26 & 63 and you come across as a typical Proddy hater.

96

Mr Pink,

29/08/2007 13:53:29

Sectarianism will never be properly addressed when the Pope insists that only RCs are Christian (apparently the reason being is that any church that doesnt have him as its leader isnt Christian). Ein flock, ein faith, ein father I suppose.

Where are the articles on this?

If this is coming from the top, what can you expect apart from a sectarian society.

97

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29/08/2007 14:08:29
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29/08/2007 14:10:17
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29/08/2007 14:15:09
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29/08/2007 14:26:09
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Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 14:28:52

#92 David, I have taken your advice ref Monkland's council. I have down loaded the Parlimentary debate. It's from the Hansard Archives and is a verbatum account of the debate. Can't read it until tonight unfortunatley.

# Wayne Do you deny the Green and White Straws
debacle at ibrox park, which is well documented
or is that a load of crap too ?

102

Iwama,

29/08/2007 14:33:23

I would just like to ask Peter from Paisley #38, to give us another of his fantastic truthful stories that are so true that the truthful police wish to pin a big "pure true" badge to his truthful uniform of truthfullness!
More truthful true stories please..and only if they are true.
cough cough

103

Iwama,

29/08/2007 14:35:04

Billy, Can I ask you a question? Am I a bigot because if I see a black straw, blue straw, red straw or green and white straw at Ibrox, that I'm a bigot for never choosing the green and white straw!!??
Comedic genius !

104

Billy,

Germany 29/08/2007 14:40:42

#105 No of course not, i think you will find that "Fans" actually pointed out the green straws and demanded their removal. Something the caterers did before the match. Apparently there was a shortage that day so they all had to be used.

Oh and there's nothing funny about it. Are you denying it happened/happens.

105

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 14:43:03

Funny how many people are making a comparison to Northern Ireland and be being rather disparaging about the place.

I worked there for many years and always found it to be more tolerant and nonsectarian than Scoltand.

Most places outside the loyalist and republican heartlands in the cities i.e. the towns and villages, are sedate and welcoming - the attitude there seemed to always be religon is not a issue unless you make it one.

In in Glasgow has I been called a "hun b*****d" or even a "fenian b*****d" (can you say that f word? - no offense meant obviously) neither of which are actually applicable but still the hate and resentment I see in Glasgow easily rivals and in some places exceeds Belfast.

106

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 14:47:27

By the way this is in the news today as it was being sold to other papers yesterday.

And it seems those that didn't buy it have done their own version.

For those that look at a wide range of newspapers you'll see it isn't just the Scotsman - so it's not some sort of anti protestant agenda by Mr McGinty.

In fact I beleive the Sun had this story sitting on the back burner and were furious when it got "broken," as it were, by another paper so everyone is rushing out a version of it.

107

Iwama,

29/08/2007 14:47:42

hahaha oh Billy your a card!
"Fans" in inverted commas as well!? Well I go to Ibrox and have NEVER heard it, have NEVER heard any of my friends mention it and have NEVER read of any other bears doing it either on line or any other credible source.
"Oh and there's nothing funny about it. Are you denying it happened/happens"
Comedic genius at work!!!
Were you the inspiration behind Blackadders auntie and her Devils dumplings!!??
Seek out another stick to attack Rangers my challened chum!!
pmsl

108

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29/08/2007 14:51:45
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Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 14:53:01

#108 has I been - eh?

I meant I have been.

110

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29/08/2007 14:54:05
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Dazza519,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 14:56:05

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cheese.

112

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 14:56:56

Iwama # 104

As someone once said "You can't handle the truth."
You are an apologist for the worst kind of bigotry in Scotland, but whatever gets it up for you.

113

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29/08/2007 14:59:12
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114

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:00:16

#107

Freddy star ate hamsters and there is a lancaster bomber on the moon. It was in the papers so must be true.

115

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:03:20

hahaha Pete your a fantasist and all the name calling from your hybrid world doesnt affect me in the slightest. Your truthful words and very true truthfullness in post 38 will mark your very true reputation for truthfullness in a true way.
A big purveyor of truthfulness is our Pete from true Paisley.
Pure true true truth man from turthful town in truth central.
Post 38 is true.
Reminds me of my friend Ivor Biggun who was always slapped by yound ladies who thought he was being a right rascal. That is another true story full of truenessness

116

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:03:35

#115

I have a mate called Billy he was a binman, his bin lorry driving mate hated calling him billy so he changed his name by deed poll to Dermot Declan O'Mally. he is now Glasgow Council's top man.


That is a super true pure fact and you cant handle it cos I said so.

117

Deasún,

29/08/2007 15:06:08

# 97 Bobo - I quite agree but at least presenting an argument shows the paucity of the paranoid bigots rants. Someone, somewhere just might see sense.

IT'S TIME... to get out of the 17th Century

118

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:07:20

Is that true JamesBrown? If so, it means the story I heard about Tommy whose surname was Trumpet might also be true. The number of perstering calls from the Philamonic orchestras of the world he had to fend off would make your cello bend!
super pure true factual facts with truth through it!

119

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:09:10

Yes 120. Deasún, lets have some of these true stories from Billy et al to add to the very serious subject!
Good try Mr Pie with one blue eye!

120

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 15:10:07

#111 Wouldn't they like things priced 1690?

I would have thought 1916 or 1798 would be the more "offensive" dates to Rangers fans.

121

Deasún,

29/08/2007 15:12:49

James Brown - Not according to Glasgow City Council's phonebook. Just more bigoted lies...

122

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:13:08

Nope, the implication was that some "newspaper" actually printed a story that Rangers actually tried to price a package so that it would cost £16.90 or £1690 ! The fact that Rangers catering is actually Azzure may very well have been lost on the half-wit who wrote it, and the LOemmings who believed it!
All in truthful Scotland where everybody tells the truth of course!

123

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:13:47

PMSL at 124!
So it wasnt true!!?
Aw naw

124

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:14:26

#122

Would it be bigoted and or sectarian to ask if he was referring to the vatican with the 17th century jibe?

125

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29/08/2007 15:14:30
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JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:15:03

#124


Whooooosh.

127

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:16:02

Perish the though James, perish the thought!

128

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29/08/2007 15:17:54
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Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:18:46

Ive just had a terrible thought! Does that mean I need to get rid of my Tom Jones album "The G**** G**** grass of home"?
Oh jings phone the Record!

130

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:19:07

#130

Aw naw you have gone and done it, "perish" is a sectarian/bigoted term. It refers to the totties lying in the fields perished and uneaten.

131

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:20:14

ARGHHHH Phone the Record (again!). In fact, never mind that, I'm going to make a banner!

132

Figgy,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 15:22:24

they really do despise the fact that they have to share the same air as us in Britain-yes BRITAIN our country.
If they feel so oppressed why not just go back to the country they want to call home anyway.
Where abouts in oirland is home?

133

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 15:22:39

I once had a friend called Stephen - the story doesn't really go anywhere after that.

134

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:22:48

#131

Aye but walking on the grass is symbolic of the oppression they are under, kept down by the proddy bassas.

135

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:25:43

#136 Nick, If you had a brother called David who formed a band I might have beem interested as well!

136

finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 15:28:00

Iwama, I have a couple of spare banners. You may have seen them appearing over assorted flyovers in the last few months.

137

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:29:26

#138

Is there no end to your bigotry, Larkhall has "bands" and they play flutes made from the rib bones of kaffliks. Another super duper true story.

138

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29/08/2007 15:31:35
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Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 15:33:12

William Frederick # 116

Your posts are there for all to view, there's no substance, just painting the so called protestant majority in Scotland as victims. If you are going to try and rewrite history, try at least to be credible.

Iwana #104

If any journalist wants to contact me regarding my post at # 38 I will happily confirm my post and refer him to the individual concerned. You choose the journalist if you like, the more sceptical the better.

140

Jo Jo,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 15:34:05

I see the professionally offended are out in force today.
What's it like in this permanently offended world you inhabit?

141

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:34:19

140 It appears that I have been discovering many things on here all diddly diddly day!
I'll try and watch what I say less I offend people.
Could you pass the Satsumas please?

142

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29/08/2007 15:34:44
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29/08/2007 15:37:00
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Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:39:14

#142 FPMSL at this..
Pete, I've taken the liberty of taking you up on your
very kind and heartfelt offer and hope you dont mind but can only provide the link for them. I do trust you can speak directly to them as I'm sure they are the most suited to verifying your very true true story.

http://www.ufomagazine.co.uk/

bwahahahahaha

145

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 15:40:45

William Frederick # 146

You feel pain?
In the same way water feels pain I think. It's not pain, it's only the sense of realising what you are.

146

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:41:24

#142

Wow sectarianism is rife in scotland, man the barricades call out the thought police somebody has a great anecdotal story and he can prove it.

147

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 15:42:18

Iwama # 147

My offer still stands, but I don't think you could stand being proven wrong, again.

148

finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 15:42:59

#145

I'd just like to distance myself from Mr O'ffendedville.

149

JamesBrown,

Sunny Govan 29/08/2007 15:46:18

#148

I think we can all see what you are.

Mammmy mamy he called me bad names. I pyoor hate him mammy aw naw does that mean I am intollerent of others view too mammy awa naw that means I am just like the guy i am calling intolerant aw naw mammy what will I do?

150

Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:46:18

#150 Proven wrong, once, would be a start you purveyor of all things truthful. A true statement filled with truth from a truthful truthy person who tells very true stories like #38 in a very true fashion!
Now what about my true story about my chum Ivor?

151

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 15:46:20

JamesBrown # 149

I liked to story about the straws at Ibrox. Do you think that Glasgow Rangers is perceived as sectarian for nothing.
Another true story, I went into a bar in Barcelona a month ago and when the barman heard my accent he shouted "Glasgow Rangers loco."
What does "loco" mean?

152

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29/08/2007 15:47:17
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finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 15:47:58

Glasgow Rangers are trains? bizarre.

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29/08/2007 15:48:21
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finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 15:48:43

or maybe 'loco' means purveyors of all things sectarian unlike ra luvvable whoops?

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29/08/2007 15:49:19
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Iwama,

29/08/2007 15:52:18

Glasgow Rangers are in the words to a Cypress Hill song!?
double bizarre! Good tatse from the insane in brain men but double bizarre none the less!

158

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 15:53:15

William Frederick # 155

He'd be your friend too if you let him use his given name.

finbar o'ffended # 156

Duh! The "loco" bit might be Spanish, you be the judge.

159

finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 15:56:08

Silence in court.

I Finbar O'ffended as judge presiding over this thread find Pete gulity of porkie pies & fibbypoos.

I sentence him to remain in Paisley for the rest of his un-natural days.

160

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 16:01:30

finbar o'ffended # 162

Your expert knowledge of court procedure is recognised. However, it should be pointed out that when you are in court, it is as the accused.

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29/08/2007 16:02:56
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I-Mac,

29/08/2007 16:06:20

There have been problems with smashed traffic lights throughout Lanarkshire and elsewhere. The green light is smashed most often because it's easiest to reach. But why let the facts get in the way of stereotyping?

163

finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 16:06:45

#163 Well I never, now i'm an offended O'ffended.

164

Generalissimo Hernandez,

29/08/2007 16:08:34

All because some guy's imaginary friend tells him not to like some other guy's imaginary friend- you coudn't make it up.

Oh, wait- they did.

165

'Hezza,

29/08/2007 16:11:36

I grew up in central Scotland and am sad to say that I thought the original tune of the beatles 'yellow submarine' was 'we all live in a yellow submarine, the fenians think its green, its really tangerine'. I had no idea who the beatles were, what a fenian was, and only a vague grasp that there were two football teams called rangers and celtic who were rivals. I knew what a tangerine was though. Quite pathetic really.

166

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 16:14:14

finbar o'ffended # 166

Seriously offended, you serious offender?
If not I can soon change that.

I-Mac # 165

Maybe a trial could be arranged whereby the two bottom lights are transposed, see which one is most often broken then?

167

finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 16:16:04

ooh please do.

168

Iwama,

29/08/2007 16:25:31

But Pete, could you be trusted to tell a true pure true version of the facts like in very true post number 38?
The fibster?
And Hezza puuullllease!

169

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 16:29:38

Iwama # 171

Feel like people are ganging up on you now, not a feeling you are used to is it?

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29/08/2007 16:32:04
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29/08/2007 16:32:31
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29/08/2007 16:33:38
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29/08/2007 16:34:35
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Andrew Allan,

29/08/2007 16:35:27

In the nineteenth century when nationalism had become strong in Scotland, and the establishment took fright, thinking the people of Scotland would soon want to pull away from the union, the establishment came up with a mind blowing idea, they would use the catholic Irish to split the country and wipe out nationalism in Scotland. The people of Scotland were duly conned, and have had to live with this evil ever since. I would like to ask those who have heard this for the first time, does this still make you feel proud to be a part of the union?

175

jeanie c,

larkhall 29/08/2007 16:35:59

as a born and bred Larkhall person I ffind it sickening that journalists in the silly summer season have nothing better to do with their time than write about well played out stories, which the police and local councillor have verified as for the park railing please note the coronation park ie queen elizabeth 2nd has red blue and white railings are these not her colours, also please note I am not a royalist far from it, our village has lots more deeper problems than this if any of your journalists would like to take the time to find out and even better do something about it and many towns in our country

176

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 16:39:24

I am swayed by all this anecdotal evidence after all it is evidence from real people like you and me - and since we're all trust worthy respectable types it must be true.

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Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 29/08/2007 16:43:04

#176 Now was there any need to make this and Independence vs Unionism debate?

Give it a break for once and stop playing the poor oppressed Scot - it's tired.

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morris,

Edinburgh 29/08/2007 16:43:47

14

I doubt that Larkhall is any worse than most of the towns along the M8 corridor,allof which seem to be pretty insane ,and I remember well being pulled up on my way into a pub in Dundee (near Lochee)wearing an anorak with Dundee United colours with " ye canna go in there wearing that mate" I said" Ah okay Thanks they are all Dundee fans in here I take it " No was the reply as he looked at me as if I was quite mad. "This is a Celtic pub"!

Thats in a Dundee housing scheme, so God only knows how far this nonsense exists!
I remember also watching buses outside Shielfield Park Berwick which I thought were hired by Berwick Rangers supporters , but the buses were very very early of course.
They were going to watch Rangers at Ibrox and there were considerably more on these buses than would watch Berwick Rangers at Shielfield !

The best one was I met an Inter Milan supporter in Dumfries . This idiot has never been outside Dumfries ,never mind near Milano.
Sectarianism and tribalism go hand in hand as far as I can see and they all have one thing in common.
I dont know what the minimum number of brain cells required to sustain human life is but I have a fair idea of what it looks like!

179

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 16:45:34

Andrew Allan# 176

I think you are wrong there Andrew. The resentment that arose against the Irish incomers in the 19th century was not that they came and took jobs from the the locals, but, that they took the women. The locals then as now were not interested in anything so mundane as work, or women.
To add insult to injury they put the little children into Catholic schools where they would be properly educated

180

John M.,

29/08/2007 16:53:19

Another big Rangers game in Europe passes off without incident so this gets trundled out yet again by the usual suspects to try to keep their agenda in the limelight.

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Andrew Allan,

29/08/2007 16:53:39

#179.Nick_Byrne, Glasgow / 5:43pm 29 Aug 2007
‘#176 Now was there any need to make this and Independence vs Unionism debate?
Give it a break for once and stop playing the poor oppressed Scot - it's tired.’
Nick_Byrne, as the issue we are talking about here is one of sectarianism within Scotland, then surely it is also right if we discuss how this type of sectarianism came about. As far as oppression on my fellow Scots is concerned, do you believe that such events should be swept under the carpet, or do you believe like I do that these infringements should be exposed? While you are thinking about it read this beauty:-

http://www.alba.org.uk/scotching/greatdeception.html

182

Baby kitty,

Minnesota USA 29/08/2007 17:01:55

Obviously many of these people don't have enough to do. With all the problems in the world these buggers are blind to them. Sic them on the terrorists.

183

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 17:03:01

John M. # 182

So, they didn't cause a fuss in Belgrade, that is hardly a surprise, more an exercise in self preservation. Not everyplace is so tolerant of the Rangers mob as the Scottish people.
As for this story being a reaction to that exemplary behaviour, there is just a possibility that it was written sometime before.

Andrew Allan # 183

You are not the only person capable of fabricating something and uploading it to the web. Of the millions of pages uploaded every month, not all are true you know; if fact most are a waste of effort. Unless, they convince at least one gullible person, Andrew.

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finbar o'ffended,

neverneverland 29/08/2007 17:06:37

and Pete knows all about making things up.

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Iwama,

29/08/2007 17:11:37

#183 Never bother Andrew. Pete's post #38 is testament to his truth factor of plue one billion truth points. He is the king fabricator.Double true fact.
G'night
PS Pete.Loving the "taking the women" line, belter! (and so true double truth with true knobs on!)
Cheery b

186

Pete,

Paisley 29/08/2007 17:23:00

Come out Timothy, Iwama, finbar and others doubt your existence.
For your own self esteem, come out of that sectarian imposed closet. You can see from the posts above that they have exposed themselves as a bunch of good 'ol boys and not the unwashed, sectarian rednecks that you remembered all these years. Their rhetoric and repartee is meant in jest and they would never victimise anyone on account of his name, never, never again.

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Andrew Allan,

29/08/2007 17:27:43

#181.Pete, Paisley / 5:45pm 29 Aug 2007
‘I think you are wrong there Andrew. The resentment that arose against the Irish incomers in the 19th century was not that they came and took jobs from the the locals, but, that they took the women. The locals then as now were not interested in anything so mundane as work, or women.
To add insult to injury they put the little children into Catholic schools where they would be properly educated’
Pete, I didn’t say how the Catholic Irish were used, though for the establishment to do what they felt they needed to do, they would have no doubt had to use a whispering campaign to stir up trouble, and the rest is history as they say.
From the early 1880s, Scottish education was run by the government; our own Scots tongue was outlawed in schools, making it much harder for us to keep our identity and our dialect. Education in Scotland became much poorer, as the children had to cope with a language which is foreign to them, Middle English. Now I’m sure there are many reasons the Catholic Irish chose to have their children educated separately, intolerance to them would definitely of been a part of it, but a reduction in education standards can not be totally ruled out.

188

Dylan D'Oh,

29/08/2007 17:33:06

Am I the only one who read the article?

The police say that it is no more sectarian than anywhere else.

The local priest says he can walk about freely.

The local Lodges and Rangers supporters club make donations to Catholic charities.

There is little bother from the congregation of marchers.

The locals find it annoying that their town is so maligned because the reality doesnt bear it out.

Yet we have a steady stream of commentators to this thread falling over themselves to tut tut and tie their daft backsides up in knots of sanctimonious claptrap.

Sectarianism. The modern day equivalent of the Emperors New Clothes. Its yobbery, vandalism sure, but sectarianism because the local park's gates are painted blue? Oh please.

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Andrew Allan,

29/08/2007 17:40:46

#185.Pete, Paisley / 6:03pm 29 Aug 2007
‘Andrew Allan # 183
You are not the only person capable of fabricating something and uploading it to the web. Of the millions of pages uploaded every month, not all are true you know; if fact most are a waste of effort. Unless, they convince at least one gullible person, Andrew.’
I’ll tell you Pete, find and read a book called ‘The Scottish Enlightenment’ by Arthur Herman, a none dispora, and without an axe to grind, he isn’t on any of the sides over here. What you will read in that book will blow your mind, and if you are smart enough you will realize more about the great con of the Darian affair, and see who is gullible?

190

Pender,

Whitby, Canada 29/08/2007 18:08:24

I don't understand why in Canada no one cares whether you are Catholic or Protestant - the people who seem to care the most are the ex pats - if your background is Irish Catholic well don't bring home a protestant and vice versa (but it seems to be the expats that this is an issue with).......will it ever go away......and yes the council in Scotland are full of Catholics (if you are not Catholic then don't bother applying and I have heard they even get all the funding for the best new schools)..........they should get rid of that problem by doing the following: Let the protestant parents pay for their schools and the catholic parents pay for their schools. In Canada, everyone has to submit their own income tax return every year to the government - RIGHT ON THE FORM IT ASKS ME WHAT SCHOOLING I WANT MY TAXES APPLIED TO - PUBLIC OR ROMAN CATHOLIC. If someone wants a new top notch school then let the parents taxes pay for it! Why can't they do this in Scotland?

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29/08/2007 18:17:10
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Norbert Dentressangle,

29/08/2007 18:31:13

Poor Larkhall, this myth is perpetuated by a lazy media.

I remember when Mo Johnstone signed for Rangers, and BBC Scotland sent a special correspondent to Larkhall to get the views of 'the man on the street'.

What was broadcast was a highly edited inflammatory piece probably provoking inter religious strife. All because a professional footballer had taken higher wages to play for one football club over another...

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29/08/2007 18:45:29
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drake's drum,

North Britain 29/08/2007 18:49:44

24. Daibhidh / 8:45am 29 Aug 2007 This is a sad, sad marr on Scotland...these small-minded, biogted people people should be shown the door...

Yes, they should... i.e. all the morons on this site who regularly abuse God-fearing, HM Queen loving Protestant Scots proud of THEIR Scottish and British history and culture. If any immigrant wants to slash a goat to death without first stunning it (in contravention of 'humane' animal treatment laws, that's becomes ok because it's 'their' culture. Same for 'honour' killing female relatives, female circumcision, shooting local youths and a multitude of 'ethnic' abherrations!!

Well, we like the colours red, white and blue, OUR Queen and OUR Union flag.

So, as is often said in scottish culture... get it up ye!

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Pender,

Whitby, Canada 29/08/2007 18:50:13

I remember that - it was Graham Souness that signed him up right! - I thought it was great - Souness signed a Catholic to play for Rangers - so what and me a Rangers supporter for no other reason than I liked Ally McCoist and Graham Souness. I don't know what it's like now - are there any protestants playing for Celtic - they should mix them all up and screw up the crazy supporters on both sides in the stand. I remember when Mo scored for Celtic he would run up to the Rangers fans behind the goal post and cross himself and send them into a rage - then when he scored for Rangers they cheered - did he still cross himself?? (who cares - it's a game!)

196

fecker feckerty,

Weegie Wonderland 29/08/2007 19:02:22

While travelling on the bus from Glagow to Larkhall last week, the driver announced as we neared the town,"Ladies and gentllemen, we are now approaching Larkhall. If you would like to aquaint yourself with local time, please set your watches back 500 years."

197

Pender,

Whitby, Canada 29/08/2007 19:29:40

#196 I like the Queen, but I like OUR SALTIRE MUCH BETTER THAN the Union Flag - just don't like waving the same flag as the English but that might start another discussion!

198

Chikderic,

Inverness 29/08/2007 19:37:13

Once again the cultural traditions of white indigenous people are being mocked. Whatever Rangers and Celtic supporters may say, at least they don't have a holy book telling them it is their duty to kill everyone else.

199

Norbert Dentressangle,

29/08/2007 19:42:43

One of the simplest suggestions I ever heard to cure Scotland from this blight was from Tony Fitzpatrick's brother. He suggested that Celtic and Rangers could do so much to stop sectarian, by simply playing each other in an old firm league game wearing each others strips. i.e Rangers playing at Ibrox wearing Celtics strip and vice versa or if that's too drastic have them play at Hampden in each others strip...

200

Generalissimo Hernandez,

29/08/2007 20:05:55

#200 Chikderic

Isn't that what the bible is all about?

Why don't we just round up all the Rantic fans, stick 'em on a rock in the middle of nowhere, and let them fight it out amongst themselves?

Scotland becomes a nicer place to live, and football might become a bit more interesting.

201

barbour,

Perthshire 29/08/2007 20:50:13

When I read such postings as these on my return to Scotland from where ever I have been "working" I am constantly reminded off the small minded sectarian racists that inhabit Scotland and am yet again ashamed that such people still exist in a modern society that is trying to impress on the world that Scotland deserves self determination.

202

BNy,

Larkhall 29/08/2007 21:47:07

Mr McGinty, I'd like to invite you to come to Larkhall and see some of the positive aspects of the town and I challenge you to write an article on what life is really like. We will make you welcome.

203

Annlass,

Toronto,ON 29/08/2007 22:03:57

#192 Pender, Whitby..The Official Government of Canada's Income Tax Return Document contains no such question about school taxes. In Ontario, and to my knowledge only in Ontario, are Property Taxes applied to either a Public School System or to a SEPERATE School System. The word Catholic is not and has never been applied to ANY question on ANY Government, Federal or Provincial, document. The question to Ontario taxpayers on where to apply the School Proponent of Property Taxes is asked for in the initial MUNICIPAL Tax Document and is never asked again. Any change to the application is made by the taxpayer.
I know that I should be commenting on the news article but I have on many other occasions expressed my disgust of Scotland's religious parochialism and its lower standards of social interaction. Larkhall depicts Scotland and Ms Gillon, the local politician and MSP has chosen to exacerbate an already volatile situation for the sake of political expediency and in my rush for an unlady like expression will settle for knowing that someone has painted her fanny green. She is neither an asset to her constituency or to her country and should be tossed out on her now green fanny.

204

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 29/08/2007 22:23:20

#34. Mr Pink
"What is the lesson we need to learn from Liverpool? You do not say. Is it that the more you divide children along sectarian lines in the education system, the more likely you are to produce a sectarian country? If it was, I agree"

Explanation: I thought it was unnecessary for me to say anything further, having made my point, but the point was simply that in Liverpool, particularly in the football arena, there is no such irrational, stupid religious viciousness as exists in the west of Scotland.

I said nothing about the education system, but since YOU do, I restate what I have already mentioned recently on these boards: I am totally against education based on religious groupings. Clear enough?

205

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 29/08/2007 22:34:14

#180. morris

I'm surprised and enlightened to know of your experience in that Dundee pub. I was a student in Dundee a very long time ago and there was never the slightest hint of any of the "religious" rubbish we are reading about on this thread.

I wonder how the self-professed Dundee United and Celtic supporting George Galloway would have been received in that pub. Or what his reaction to your post would be. This is an ingrained sickness perpetuated by insular idiots. Scotland is supposed to be a (united) nation, but it seems we have some way to go yet.

206

Dunnie,

Canada 30/08/2007 01:56:34

Some say that when Man plans, God laughs.

I would say, if there is a God, and he had read this story and the thread of this commentary, he would have wet himself laughing even harder.

Green and white; red, blue and white? What does it bloody matter? And please - forgoe - any attempts to explain because it is beyond explanation and comprehension.

This is no comment on the town mentioned. However, I have played enough footy with ex-pats to understand yet continue to be bewildered by the sectarianism and prejudice.

Hope you get this sorted out before you become independent - and that is just a wish.

207

Dunnie,

Canada 30/08/2007 02:07:07

199 -

Pender - in one previuos posting you bemoan the prejudices and imported attitudes of ex-pats yet you state " but I like OUR SALTIRE MUCH BETTER THAN the Union Flag".

I'm disappointed that you didn't say that, " I like our Maple Leaf Flag better than both". Missed opportunity, I would say to prove your point, if it is one you truly believe in.

208

Rankbadyin,

Palmerston North, New Zealand 30/08/2007 03:16:06

Many moons ago, my larger family lived in Edinburgh, but when Dad had to take us kids to live in Glasgow for his workplace, we suddenly found ourselves aliens in both regions. I reckon it was enlightening for us. We made friends with people from all over the world - not realising that we were doing it to defend ourselves. When I went to live in the US I fell for a beautiful French Canadian girl who ditched me at the altar when I didn't pass the Catholic religious courses. I suppose my resistance, by that time was that I'd been molested by a priest (but a Protestant minister had also had a go at me). Can you see why I became more and more secular in my thinking?). In the US I got a job in a place called Dundee, Illionois - and was shocked to find the same old Scots prejudices were there. They had a "twin town" of Carpentersville, with a long Irish Catholic history. The problem there hasn't changed much in the intervening years, however: the looked-down-upon group is now Latino. I think Scots religious prejudices indicate ignorance - but I acknowledge that there is even greater ignorance in Born Again America. Religion, as a motivator, is dangerous, my friends. Now, thank god (or whoever), I'm in New Zealand, where secular folks do as much good as religious charities ever did - but they don't dictate the way their neighbours live (or ban green or blue). But we still experience the occasional pushy evangelist. I recommend, to those who need some consolation, the reading of Dawkins' THE GOD DELUSION.

209

Dunnie,

Canada 30/08/2007 03:19:03

Well said Kiwi.

210

Cyril,

New Zealand 30/08/2007 03:39:55

It's great to live in a multicultural country like NZ where people of all races and religions mix in well. Catholics marry Protestants and people marry Chinese, Thai, Malays etc. In Auckland a city of one and a half million the latest census shows that Catholism is the dominant religion and Catholic schools are part.aof the state system. Here people are respected for what they are something some of us fought for in the last war. The idea is that Jack is as good as his master so we have no titles or British honours and little to do with the UK except to still have a Governor-General who is a Catholic from a Fijian -Indian family.

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Virgil,

Vancouver,BC 30/08/2007 08:32:07

#214 Cyril..Ditto Canada whose last Governor-General was Chinese and our present GG is a French (First Language) Woman from Haiti.
The Catholic/Protestant syndrome is only recognized here by lager louts from Scotland who should never have left home and are usually our worst and most despised citizens. #206 Annlass is right on.

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Jimmy Troot,

Larkhall 30/08/2007 11:43:38

I was born in Larkhall and my father was a catholic and his twin siter a nun for over 50 years> I have a cousin who is a nun and I have never read such rubbish as posted re our town> unfortunately we do not have outside toilets and toilet paper is cheap today or I would use your news paper for the only purpose I see it fit for and that is wiping my backside> Having read this sectarian crap and narrow minded reporting I will no longer by purchasing said paper. The Daily Express looks like a better option for me.

213

John McKay,

Glasgow 30/08/2007 20:13:35

My football team (boys club) wears green and white and is going to play a match in Larkhall this season against a local team who also play in orange, whether that be a coincidence or not, and I am worried about the possible reaction way may get there.

Can anyone tell me what I can possibly expect to happen?

214

Angus Lindsay,

Hong Kong 30/08/2007 21:16:44

#218. John McKay

Your comment about the colour "orange" triggered an omission in my posts #8 and 208. Curious that the "Catholic" team in Dundee (allegedly, but not borne out in reality generally, or in my experience) is Dundee United.

When I was a boy DU played in broad black-and-white hoops, but they have sported orange for a very long time. (I like the colour orange too.)

I wonder how George Galloway squares that home-town conundrum vis-à-vis his movable religious loyalties.

215

Jimi.,

Motherwell. 30/10/2008 11:01:31
# 8,Encephalon,you may not be aware of this but R.C.schools were introduced by the C.O.S. just after WW1,this was because of the amount of R.C.arriving in Scotland from both N.I.and southern Ireland.
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27/02/2009 10:16:07
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loadofrubbish,

strathaven 06/04/2009 01:48:51
Some of these comments are alot of nosense, I was brought up in Larkhall and attended primary and secondary schools in Larkhall. The town gets a terrible name for no reason at all. Yes there are a few a*******s who cause trouble and cant stand the other religion or other football supporter, but it is the exact same anywhere else, it will always be the same things will never change.
And the regarding the sign colour changes, whos fault is that!!!! The 'proddies' didnt force the companies to change colours they done it of there own accord 'just incase' trouble should occur!!!! Are you all trying to tell me that all 'proodies' from Larkhall boycote asda in hamilton or motherwell simply because of the colour of the sign!!!! Maybe a few but certainly the magority shop at asda and would have no problem what so ever shopping in a shop where there was a green sign!!
The is secterianism everywhere you go and larkhall is of no exception but i think you should look out before you look in!!!! come to larkhall, see how it really is and then write it down again! no doubt ur opinion will have changed because it truly is not as bad as u think. I have very close friends who are catholic who live in Larkhall, if it were that bad would they be able to live in larkhall, would they be able to walk the streets in larkhall, socialise in larkhall and oh dare i say it yes catholics who marry protestants!!!
hopefully since youve written your article you would have paid a visit to larkhall and realised what a decent place it is and that u can take back what you have written.

 

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