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Robert McNeil: Freeze my brain and stick it in the desert? Er, maybe not



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Published Date: 11 April 2008
By Robert McNeil
I'M LOSING the will to live. I mean really, some days you wonder if it's worth bothering. At 50, you must start looking after your back, making sure the spine remains supple. But bending down to the intellectual level of some people can be a real strain. Never mind, on we soldier, thinking maybe it'll get better in future. The idea arises that you can have your heid – can we say that in a quality paper? – pickled so that it can be jump-started many years hence.
Cryonics isn't the science of weeping but, rather, the idea that you can preserve folk at shiveringly low temperatures and defrost them in the future. Mr DJ Maclennan, 36, of Skye, is making £40-a-month insurance payments to cover the £40,000 cost of...



The full article contains 1046 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 May 2008 4:27 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Robert McNeil
 
1

,

11/04/2008 04:07:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Guga II,

Rockall 11/04/2008 05:03:47
"I'd like to be born again and write dull stuff".

Congratulations, you made it.
3

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 11/04/2008 06:53:56
First find Robert's brain.
4

Boy Wonder,

11/04/2008 07:34:02
I see MacNeil has been plagiarising the posters again for his articles!
5

Dollar Tim,

Dollar 11/04/2008 07:43:37
#2, #3 & #4 So why do you miseries read his articles?
6

Tom R,

11/04/2008 09:24:02
#1 NightRider007

I remind you again that cryonics is NOT illegal in the UK.

I am still waiting for you to reply to my posting of yesterday on another Scotsman thread relating to cryonics. You had claimed preposterously and incorrectly that cryonics has been banned in the UK, providing a link to British Columbian legislation. Either you are not, as you claim, from the UK or you are profoundly ignorant.

It is absolutely not the case that cryonics is a scam, and certainly no-one is getting rich based on it. If it were a scam, the organisations operating in the United States (notably Alcor and the Cryonics Institute)would have been banned by now. Attempts to stop these organisations by those with the irrational attitude of NightRider 007 have all failed for the very good reason that their portrayal of these organisations as scammers is manifestly untrue.

Sadly cryonics may indeed not work, but it does not contravene any of the known laws of physics. A considerable number of eminent scientists believe it is worthy of scientific investigation and endeavour.

As has been said, in this attempt to see if it just might be possible to revive those in cryonic suspension, the control group (e.g. the buried, the cremated) are not doing very well:-)
7

Maybe Jo,

Painted Post 11/04/2008 13:57:19
This...for me...was an enjoyable read. I agree with Robert McNeil that "it's staying cheerful that keeps us going". Life's too short to take too seriously. It's only by being crazy that one is sane.
8

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 14:35:46
What do the experts say about cryonics?

“Cryonic technology has not been demonstrated to work in laboratory animals. Even if the rest of a person's body could be revived after hundreds of years, the brain could not. Brain cells deteriorate within minutes after death, and any still viable when the body is frozen would be burst by the freezing process. Cryonics might be a suitable subject for scientific research, but marketing an unproven method to the public is quackery.”

William T. Jarvis, Ph.D., President
National Council Against Health Fraud




“To see the flaw in this system, thaw out a can of frozen strawberries. During freezing, the water within each cell expands, crystallizes, and ruptures the cell membranes. When defrosted, all the intracellular goo oozes out, turning your strawberries into runny mush. This is your brain on cryonics.”

Dr. Michael Shermer (historian and founder of Skeptic magazine)



"Believing cryonics could reanimate somebody who has been frozen is like believing you can turn hamburger back into a cow."

Dr. Arthur Rowe (cryobiologist)



"What happens is, every single cell in the organism breaks. Everything is crushed, and it is not just a tiny little bit of damage, it is not damage like a hole in a dike, it's damage like complete pulverization and destruction. Not just the destruction of cells, but also the information contained in them. The DNA is broken up, destroyed, and oxidized. There is not a single salvageable piece of anything that is molecular inside those things [Alcor patients]."

Dr. Kenneth Storey (cryobiologist), television appearance on CBS "Sunday Morning", July 21, 2002.




“This is a medical science that doesn't even meet the silliness threshold.”

Dr. Jonathan Moreno, Director for Bioethics, University of Virginia
CNN Interview, July 9, 2002

9

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 14:40:52
What happened to Ted's Head?

Hall of Famer Ted Williams' head and body are being stored in separate containers at an Arizona cryonics lab that is still trying to collect a $111,000 bill from Williams' son, according to a story by Tom Verducci in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated.

Williams' remains have been suspended in liquid nitrogen at Alcor Life Extension Foundation in Scottsdale, Ariz., since the former slugger's death in July 2002. Williams' son, John Henry Williams, had his father placed in cryonic suspension, a deep-freezing process done in hopes that future scientific advances will restore the dead to life.

But contrary to recent news reports, Williams' body is not resting upside down in a liquid nitrogen tank at Alcor. Instead, reports Verducci, his head sits on a shelf in a liquid nitrogen-filled steel can, while his body is in the same room, stored upright in a liquid nitrogen-filled, nine-foot-tall cylindrical steel tank.

The silver can containing Williams' head resembles a lobster pot and is marked in black with Williams' patient I.D. number, A-1949, according to the SI story. Williams' head has been shaved and drilled with holes. Verducci also reports that, before the head was placed in its present location, it was accidentally cracked as many as 10 times due to fluctuating storage temperatures.

SI's investigation of Alcor internal documents, e-mails, photographs and tape recordings was done with the cooperation of the company's most recent chief operating officer, Larry Johnson. The magazine's reporting also casts further doubt on whether Williams ever intended to be placed in such a facility.

About a year before Williams died, Alcor employees visited his Hernando, Fla., home but did not meet with him. Instead, they talked with John Henry while, according to the magazine, Williams could be heard yelling from a back room. Moreover, Williams' seven-page Consent for Cryonic Suspension, a copy of which was obtained by SI, wa
10

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 14:41:54
About a year before Williams died, Alcor employees visited his Hernando, Fla., home but did not meet with him. Instead, they talked with John Henry while, according to the magazine, Williams could be heard yelling from a back room. Moreover, Williams' seven-page Consent for Cryonic Suspension, a copy of which was obtained by SI, was submitted to Alcor after he had died, with the line for his signature blank.


The only publicly known documentation that suggests Ted Williams wanted to be cryonically preserved is a piece of scrap paper, stained with motor oil and dated Nov. 2, 2000. That paper, apparently bearing the signatures of John Henry, his sister Claudia, and Ted, states their desire to be put in "Bio-Stasis after we die" on the chance the three of them might "be together in the future."

The Hall of Famer's signature on the scrap paper reads "Ted Williams." Bobby-Jo Ferrell, Williams' daughter by his first marriage, who has fought her half-brother and half-sister's efforts to cryonically preserve Williams' body, says her father typically signed legal documents "Theodore S. Williams." The fact that Williams was hospitalized at the time has also raised questions about the document's authenticity, says SI, though the executor of Williams' estate has declared the document to be valid.

John Henry, his sister Claudia and Alcor CEO Jerry Lemler, M.D., either declined to answer or failed to respond to questions from SI regarding the state of Ted Williams' body.

According to the magazine, Williams' body was flown to Arizona almost immediately after his death on the morning of July 5, 2002, and was on an operating table at Alcor later that night. One witness told the magazine that Williams' head was removed in "neuroseparation" surgery, even though John Henry had earlier indicated that he wanted a full-body suspension, and that "many people" snapped pictures of the famous patient during the operation.
11

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 14:42:20
John Henry was billed $120,000 for the procedure, plus $16,000 for flying the body to Arizona. Ten days after Williams' death, his son wrote a $25,000 check to Alcor, but the balance remains unpaid and the company has begun legal efforts to collect it. According to the former COO Larry Johnson, and his taped conversations, a board member and an adviser joked about "throwing [Williams'] body away," posting it on eBay or sending it in a "frosted cardboard box" C.O.D. to John Henry's doorstep, to persuade him to pay the bill.

There also have been problems with storage of Williams' head, says SI. Two dime-size holes were drilled into the head to observe the brain condition and, more important, to insert sensors that could detect cracks during the freezing process. But after "a huge crack" occurred in the head in April and nine more cracks were reported in July, Williams' head was removed from its original container and eventually placed in its current "neuro-can."

Bobby-Jo Ferrell has contended that John Henry Williams wants to preserve their father's DNA, perhaps to sell it. Her lawyer, John Heer, said last month that Ted Williams asked in his will to be cremated and have his ashes scattered over his old fishing grounds in the Florida Keys.
__________________
I'm Walter Cronkite, and that's the way it is.

12

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 14:44:23
The MURDER of Dora Kent

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,966905,00.html

Saul Kent wanted to bestow the ultimate gift upon his sickly 83-year-old mother: a new life. So when Dora Kent was near death last December, Saul, 48, took her to the Alcor Life Extension Foundation in Riverside. There, her head was cut off and frozen in liquid nitrogen. Called cryonics, the process is based on the hope that someday scientists will be able to attach the head to a new body.
But was Mama dead when she lost her head? Last week the Riverside County coroner's office, after performing toxicologic tests on Dora's headless body, classified her death as homicide. The coroner asserts that Mrs. Kent was injected with barbiturates, which hastened her death. Alcor officials maintain that the barbiturates were administered immediately after she was clinically dead to "act as a preservative and insulate the brain."
13

Tom R,

11/04/2008 16:07:33
# 8-12 FrozenStiff

Your comments on the Dora Kent and Ted Williams appear designed to mislead. Both situations were decided in favour of Alcor:

"The legal battle to remove Ted Williams's body and head from a deep freeze ended Tuesday when his elder daughter and her husband were enjoined by a Florida judge from further objections or legal actions related to recovering and cremating her father's remains."

It is worth noting that Ted William's son John Henry died of Leukemia aged 35 and was cryonically preserved at Alcor thereby giving the lie to the allegations that he was insincere in his actions concerning his father.


The case re Dora Kent was concluded as follows;

"The case was concluded only in 1991, by a tacit admission of wrongdoing by the Coroner's office and an out of court settlement of some $90,000 which was divided among the six who were detained that day (Jan. 7, 1988) and their attorneys. Dora Kent was an important milestone for a number of reasons. Most important, we did carry the day when threatened by a powerful bureaucracy. The patient was saved, as well as our other patients (then numbering, believe it or not, only seven), all of whom were threatened with autopsy. (The coroner wanted to just end our operations then and there. Apparently this was a "grandstanding" attempt, perhaps an act to follow the forced autopsy of Liberace which the same coroner had carried out a year or so previously.) Although it was a mistake to proceed as we did, bringing the still-living patient into the facility with a hostile bureaucracy lurking by, the determination shown in facing down officialdom saved the day, and would culminate in legal recognition for cryonics, and a new respectability"


Please stop spreading disinformation about cryonics-nobody is forcing you or anyone else to be cryonically preserved.
14

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 22:11:59
TomR

You ask “Please stop spreading disinformation about cryonics-nobody is forcing you or anyone else to be cryonically preserved.” I disagree with your “disinformation” request. You are obviously one of the cult members.

Here is some TRUE information regarding the Alcor DNA lies and cover-up.

Awaiting another chip off Ted Williams' old DNA?
By Tom Farrey
ESPN.com
July 9, 2002

Bobby-Jo Ferrell, one of Williams' daughters, told a Boston newspaper that her half-brother, John Henry, last year mused to her, "Wouldn't it be interesting if in 50 years, we could bring dad back. What if we could sell dad's DNA and there could be little Ted Williamses all over the world?"

"There are a lot of people out there that would love to have the DNA of Ted Williams," said Ron Harris, a New York photographer who runs a Web site, ronsangels.com, that claims to auction the eggs and sprm of fashion models. "This morning, one woman called and said she would pay $50,000 for it. Another woman said she'd pay $60,000."


Cryonics director denies mistreatment of Williams' remains
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service
Aug. 13, 2003

Paula Lemler, the wife of Alcor President Jerry Lemler, said Wednesday her husband is undergoing chemotherapy treatment and could not comment, but she said Alcor doesn't take DNA or blood samples. "If there's something we don't store and don't keep, there's no way we can lose it," added Carlos Mondragon, an Alcor director.
15

FrozenStiff,

HI 11/04/2008 22:13:27
ABC NEWS
September 3, 2003

Johnson also claims that eight samples of fluid from Williams' body are missing, and that those samples contain the famous player's DNA, which can be used for cloning.
But Mondragon said that simply isn't true. "That one is flat-out incorrect because we don't store DNA," he said. "We store our patients' brains or their entire bodies."




News 5 Phoenix, AZ

Alcor Director Carlos Mondragon says, Because of patient confidentiality Alcor can't say if Williams is here but says when it comes to allegations of missing DNA he says, "We don't store DNA we're not in that business."


Alcor’s Statement following the Sports Illustrated Article found in the Alcor News Bulletin #15 dated August 13, 2003 authored by Charles Platt:

"Finally we must emphasize, contrary to news reports, that Alcor has never collected 'DNA samples' from its cryopatients. Obviously Alcor has no need to collect 'DNA samples,' since a neuropatient already contains billions of DNA molecules."

But on the contrary, in Alcor Newsletter Bulletin #19 under the heading “Cell Storage” dated December 7, 2003 authored by Tanya Jones the following statement is found:

“Alcor does, however, encourage its members to deposit a DNA sample in its dewars, and we even went so far as to send out sample kits to all our members some years back. There are hundreds of those samples logged and stored in our vaults.”

http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/alcornews019.html

Seems like our friends at Alcor cannot get their stories straight.
16

Tom R,

11/04/2008 22:41:49
#14&15 FrozenStiff

I cannot see this matter of DNA from Ted Williams is of any consequence at all. Let's face it, if genetics was a simple as that, John Henry Williams, Ted's son, should have been a great baseball player which, sadly for him, he most definitely was not :-)

As I said before Alcor was successful in resisting nonsensical claims made against it.

I am not a member of Alcor

 

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