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Fred Goodwin to step down as RBS chief



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Published Date: 13 October 2008
FROM proud banking icons to two humiliated, nationalised rumps: Scotland's two largest banks are being pulled from the brink of an economy-destroying collapse – but at the price of a proud, centuries-old independence. And nothing more epitomises that than the departure of Sir Fred Goodwin.
He took RBS from being a small UK player to one of the world's top five banks. In the process, he became Scotland's best-known and respected business figure.

But in recent months, the bank has been battered by the global financial storms and confidence has drained away at frightening speed.

Last week, shares in RBS plunged by 61 per cent to just 71.7p in the worst week ever for western banks. RBS, once worth £65 billion, has sunk to only £11 billion. Today's £15 billion capital injection will make the taxpayer the majority shareholder by far.

It is a shattering blow to Scotland's financial services sector and the livelihoods of the 106,000 people employed in the industry.

Taut, wiry, shrewd, tight-lipped, but with a sharp humour, Sir Fred was for years the best-known Scottish businessman worldwide.

RBS's acquisitions file bristled with solid brand names – NatWest, Coutts, Adam & Co, Direct Line, Ulster Bank, Churchill and Citizens Bank in the US.

He built the group up to be the second-biggest bank in Britain and the fifth-biggest in the world. Its market capitalisation topped that of Coca-Cola.

Then came the acquisition too far. Having signalled to fund managers and analysts that he had forsworn growth by acquisition, there came the daddy of them all last October – a £49 billion bid for Dutch bank giant ABN Amro as part of a consortium with Fortis and Santander.

The deal was completed just as the financial sky was darkening with problems spreading across the Atlantic from sub-prime mortgage lending in the US. RBS shares began to sag, but, by then, it was too locked into the bid to backtrack.

By early this year, its shares began to fall sharply on concerns over the group's exposure to "toxic" assets in the US. Half-yearly figures showed the group made a pre-tax loss of £691 million due to write-downs totalling £5.97 billion.

RBS's problems mounted and more assets came to be seen as toxic.

Sir Fred then sprang his boldest stroke of all – a £12 billion rights issue cash call on the banks' shareholders, at a knockdown price of 200p. It was the biggest rights issue in the history of the London Stock Exchange. But such was investors' confidence in the bank – and in Sir Fred – that all but 2 per cent of shareholders stumped up.

Yet far from RBS's problems being over, they got worse. The shares plunged below 200p as confidence in banks began to sink worldwide.

When Belgo-Dutch giant Fortis keeled over into nationalisation last month, worry mounted over RBS's ability to integrate its own parts of the ABN empire without triggering more write-downs. The ability to sell off surplus assets in worsening conditions further worried the markets.

Troubles were compounded when credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut its rating on the group amid fears over future earnings and write-downs. Then last week came a final epochal sell-off, smashing the group's shares.

This crisis will change the shape of banking for a generation, and consigns the Fred Goodwin model to history.

So what will he get? Last year, Sir Fred received pay and total emoluments of £4.2 million. He is on a one-year contract, which means he stands to receive his basic £1.2 million, and huge pension benefits.

However, more than two million share options have been wiped out and his total of 2.5 million shares and share options, valued at £5.7 million at the end of last December, is now worthless.

The full article contains 652 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

famous 15,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 01:08:42
I will not forgive Dithering Darling and Broon if my investment in these "safe" shares are lost. Scotland would .of course be better INDEPENDENT!
2

The Strategist,

13/10/2008 01:19:12
The old adage of "you shouldn't kick a man when he's down" is generally true but in this case we should make an exception.

Bill Jamieson says is Goodwin Scotland's most respected business figure. Respected perhaps by others in the financial services establishment but there are many including me who think he is one of the reasons behind Scotland's low growth and business birthrates because he disconnected RBS from the real needs of the Scottish economy.

Worryingly though the bloke reputed to be taking over sounds as if he's from the same mould.
3

Jock MacSprog,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 01:20:56
Say goodbye to Scottish Nationalism and Independence for this Century ! Our two Icons bailed out and saved by the BRITISH government. Salmond hanging his head in shame and embarrasment.
4

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 01:21:30
1
Did you spread your investment over several companies or did you have it all in one of these banks?
5

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 01:26:13
2 The Strategist
"Bill Jamieson says is Goodwin Scotland's most respected business figure. Respected perhaps"

Fred the Shred has had many critics in the financial sevices industry and in stock market circles. Many believed he was on something of an ego trip and tried to expand RBS too hastily.
6

,

13/10/2008 03:00:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Vaccav,

Edinburgh and Sydney 13/10/2008 03:25:02
Let's keep it realistic, guys. Fred hasn't been dishonest and making references to drug dealers and gang leaders is way way wide of the mark.

If RBS didn't have Fred it wouldn't have become the fifth biggest bank in the world. It would still be about the same size as the Dunfermline Building Society and it probably would have been taken over by someone years ago. We in Edinburgh are fortunate that Fred built it up to the size it currently is. It employs thousands in Edinburgh and has done good things for the economy here.

As for the state taking control - that is the best solution by far. At this rate, RBS stays independant and the government will sell in a couple of years. We, the taxpayer, will make a great return. Edinburgh will benefit as RBS lives to fight another day. With HM Government a majority shareholder, no competitors can take it over.

The shares are now a reasonable - the government won't let it go bust and the shares will generate a great return over the next 3 or 4 years. Anyone care to wager on how much the RBS shares increase by today ?

RBS' Edinburgh employees will remain in place and the bank will rise again. If only HBoS had got the same chance, Edinburgh would've kept two head offices.

As for Fred ............ it's a shame - he might be sacrificed due to public expectations and comments like those above. But at the end of the day, we've got a lot to thank him for.

8

Between the lines,

Scotland 13/10/2008 03:33:17
#1 - presumably you are aware that when one invests in the Stock Market there is ALWAYS an element of risk? Or perhaps, given you are from Edinburgh, the old "we know best" deluded arrogance and smugness got in the way yet again? Time to join the real world mate.
9

Between the lines,

Scotland 13/10/2008 03:35:47
#7 - so you know Fred personally and are privy to the detail of everything he has done at RBS then?
10

Vaccav,

Sydney and Edinburgh 13/10/2008 04:01:52
Between the lines -

Erm, no .. .. .. .. I don't know Fred personally. But he has been widely credited for gorwing the bank to that size. I didn't think that was under dispute.

Vaccav
11

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 13/10/2008 04:27:03
#7 Vaccav

".....are fortunate that Fred built it up to the size it currently is."

But built it on what? It would appear now that he built it on smoke and mirrors and on dodgy credit that didn't actually exist?

Are we to believe that he did not understand the risks he was taking with the bank's money? And if he did not, then he was not the "whizzkid" banker he was being made out to be.

I'm with #6 GrahamR - he is a criminal and should be dealt with as such.
12

Mallory,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 04:58:50
Someone should put an 'under new management sign' on that bridge at Gogarburn. A permanent reminder of the folly of excess, greed and overdone ambition could be a sobering thought to those international businessmen who will be travelling past in droves on the trams.

13

Jock's Away,

Africa 13/10/2008 05:04:01
The bigger they are the harder they fall. Being a customer for over four decades I am not to chuffed that the Board and Managers became more like bookmakers.(they wil cry al the way to their overseas villas) When they took away the high street Managers and replaced them with Postmen, so some faceless accountant, high paid Economic chancer or distant call centre could handle the business. They threw away the essence of Banking.
101: Banking is people and risk assessment. Nothing more.
By ignoring that for bigger profits, rather than quality profits, by uncontrolled egos and ever bigger bonuses the current managers(label advisedly)have destroy what has taken hundred of years to establish. Reputation, trust and integrety.So much for scottish thrift and astuteness in finance. RBS and HBOS were the core the fundation of what could have been the restoration of Scotlands restored independence.
Without financial independence and the means to controll it that is now a distant dream, Westminister has been handed the tool to thwart Edinburghs challenge a serious stake in Scottish banks. Salmonds 1 bn begging bowl does not give a warm fuzz feeling. Nothing like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Bit like football.
14

Proper Job,

13/10/2008 05:31:05
Talk of Fred making RBS 'the fifth biggest bank in the world' is surely laughable when, albeit with hindsight, we can see that he did nothing of the sort. He created a house of cards underpinned by the dodgiest of foundations -- and based largely on greed. Fred's legacy is taking a respected institution with centuries of independent trading history to nationalisation and years of dire straits to come (and likely, many redundancies to boot).

In the 70s I was a fairly close friend of Fred. He was a bright, likeable guy with a searing wit -- and more ambition than anyone I knew. It's a shame that the ambition overtook the nicer side of a guy I enjoyed being friends with, but I feel more sorry for all the folk whose jobs are history or whose pensions have been halved by that ambition.
15

Vaccav,

Sydney and Edinburgh 13/10/2008 07:54:08
#11 Tatties ower the side -

C'mon, you can't suspend reality. It wasn't built on smoke and mirrors. Fred made acquisitions of businesses (citizens, natwest) that were substantial, tangible and highly profitable. That wasn't smoke and mirrors. Nobody is saying that those profits weren't real.

I'm sure Fred DID understand the risks that he was taking - he understood he was buying profitable busineses. I'm sure he thought there was a miniscule chance that the world's credit markets would freeze. I did a corporate acquisition last year (nothing to do with banking) and I would've put a negligible value on that risk. It wasn't even on anyone's radar.

To beat Fred up on this is a bit unfair .. .. .. .. the beat-up implies that someone else in his chair could've forseen the credit crunch and all it's implications. I don't know any bankers who forsaw that.

Vaccav


16

No thanks...,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 08:38:22
#15 Vaccav,

Fred was not alone, the board and the executives should all be made to stand down in an ordely transiton e.g. over the next 2-3 years. Same for HBOS, these people have played too much risk, ABN at the wrong time etc. They get these massive rewards because people expect them to be better than others. This has been shown to be wrong, they were greedy and full hardy.
17

Joe,

St. John's Road.. 13/10/2008 08:42:16
#1..If Scotland were currently independent these banks wouldn't have been 'saved'? We can't even fund the Edinburgh Airport rail link...!
18

Edward,

13/10/2008 08:56:09
'FROM proud banking icons to two humiliated, nationalised rumps'
Sorry but the banks ,especailly RBS are no different today than they were last year.
The difference is the market manipulation by the Labour government in causeing the share value to tumble
Perhaps people should start looking deeper into how Labour have been breifing there chosen journolists in talking down the banks and making the banks the villian of the peace!. Its also curious that the sustained attacks by Labour have been aimed at RBS as well as HBOS, but not at any other bank
But dont ake my word for it. THe Mail on Sunday had agood piece of investigative jouralism which exposed how RobertPeston was able to provide just a tad more than an 'expert' viewpoint over the last few months and especially at the start of last week
full article is at http://tiny.cc/ABvy7
Also some interesting finding as regards Northern Rock as well.
Its should also be remembered that Alistair Campbell as well as Peter Mandelson are back to support Gordon Brown and Labour to win the next election

Dirty tricks was Campbells speciality

19

Edward,

13/10/2008 08:59:02
#17
Pathetic arguement
Id Scotland were independent, it woulod be controlling ALL of its revenue, instead of being bled by the London treasury
20

The Ghost of Sir William Arrol,

The Forthy Bridge 13/10/2008 09:37:20
The first of many economic 'shocks' deriving from the advent of peak oil and shrinking energy supplies worldwide in the coming years. We need a major rethink about our use of energy in the ecomomy. We should concentrate on converting our economy to a sustainable one. That means recognising the changing tides: fewer new roads, Forth Bridges and airport rail links will be of benefit, while better insulated homes, trams and electric trains will enable Scotland to keep some of the standard of living we currently enjoy as the oil continues to run out. And I'm sorry Joe #17, the inevitable decline of Edinburgh Airport has already started.
21

Richard Lionheart,

13/10/2008 09:46:39
“WE Have ended BOOM and BUST.” Gordon Brown, billions of times over the past 11 years.

Yet all of a sudden when it all goes wrong, we “Have a new Global Economy”.

The shifting of blame highlights how competent a “politician” he really is.

Are the British public dim enough to be taken in by him again?

He should accept responsibility for his part in the construction of this mess and go now.
22

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 09:56:22
Oh dear, no more cozy fireside chats with Salmon then. Hahahaha.
23

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 13/10/2008 10:03:02
This clearly proves that Scotland is incapabale of running anything ( apart from pubs and chip shops )
24

CRAGman,

13/10/2008 10:16:19
#1 - without Broon and Darling your shares would really be worthless by now. You should be grateful, not critical. But I suppose some folk can never be happy.
25

Edward,

13/10/2008 10:18:42
#23
What a pathetic cringe!
Scotland is more than capable of running its own affairs. The Banks in the UK as a whole were forced into the current situation, by Labour being underhand and having breifings against the banks, which specifically targeted the Scottish Banks.
Its a fact that the likes of the BBC's Robert Peston was used to manipulate the markets, by talking down the banks.
But pathetic creeps like you are so blinkered as to see what is actually happening.
The bigger picture is that Labour are desperate to cling onto power, so the current financial instabilty in te world provides a good backdrop to create uncertainty in Bank shares, make the Banks scapegoats.
The people that were lending money out like confetti were the Building Societies and former Building Societies. But Labour spin machine are not going to lket the truth get in tghe way.
What better to create a massive seel on Bank shares, by having leaks and more leaks and so called leaks go out on a regular basis, so confidence drops with the major banks, Oppostion are made suplicant to it all as must be seen to support government. Result Gordon looks good, struts hi stuff, Labour looks good, opposition look weak and Scotland made to look useless into the bargain.
All in all a good days (actually months) work by Alistair Campbell who was instrumental in the whole thing.
It was revealled in yesterdays, Mail on Sunday that Robert Peston is a close freind of Ed Balls as well as someone in the treasury (so no wonder he thinks the sun shines out of Gordon Browns backside)
26

Doh,

13/10/2008 10:19:49


We will still be paying for his enormous pension that would even make Peter Mandelson blush.

As for his shares being wiped out - am I supposed to feel sorry? He didnt deserve them anyway.

It is unacceptable that if the share price recovers his shares will regain value. He, and the other executives and managers should be forced to surrender all their share options.

These people have been milking their companies for years now they will want to milk the taxpayer.



27

Edward,

13/10/2008 10:20:42
People should really think about whats happened
Did Brown and Darling dither? after all they didnt do anything until too late.
If they didnt dither, then was the delay deliberate?
You decide, either way the pair come out as dithering fools or criminals
28

Steven P,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 10:36:11
#7 Vaccav you are a top tipster. RBS shares down a further 21% this morning. Buy indeed.
Glad you arent my financial advisor.
29

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 13/10/2008 10:48:46
27- could this have been why Brown put off the election , because he knew this was coming ? And if so why did he not act sooner ? And I suspect this was why Blair quit when he did . A lot of dirty linen to come out from Labour methinks .
30

Mandy Jones,

Plymouth 13/10/2008 10:51:23
Someone here tell me.
Why is taxpayers money being given to banks, just so they can lend it back to taxpayers at a profit?

- I'd rather my money go on schools, Police or hospitals thank you.
31

Dr Mike,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 11:07:37
Perhaps Fred and his cronies should collect pairs of stainless steel handcuffs as they leave Kampff Gogarburn.
32

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 11:10:27
#30
The alternative is to let some banks go into receivership (probably) and restructure the industry in the private sector. That would perhaps be a wiser course in the long run.

However, the politicians and their advisers think they know better and the banks aren't in a position to say no to free money if they're offered it. Hence the market signals to the industry are distorted and no-one quite knows where they are.

Keynes vs the Austrian school apparently, if you're into the technical stuff.
33

Mikey,

13/10/2008 11:23:52
Can someone tell me who is in charge of British financial policy? Can someone tell me who got us into the this situation?

Oh yeah, the BRITISH GOVERNMENT!!! The sooner Scotland is free from this millstone in Westmonster, the better.

As for all of the wannabe English, asking what Salmond would have done, well, he couldn't have done any worse, could he?

The fact is that Westmonster has bankrupted the country and now all their paid lackeys are running around trying to blame anyone but themselves!

The Scottish people are not so stupid as Liebore seem to think. They know who is responsible for financial policy, even if the anti Scots on this board don't!
34

Doh,

13/10/2008 11:32:33
#30 Stephen,

Economics is really just a mixture of history and astrology.



35

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 13/10/2008 11:53:14
33 - with a SCOTTISH PM ???
36

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 13/10/2008 12:09:09
#33, Mikey you are completely delusional, myopic and one of those chip on the shoulder scots who really do our great nation no good whatsoever.

The head of RBS is based in Scotland, HBOS is based in Scotland, BOTH had debt levels within INTERNATIONAL standards and you gert your slimey anti English stance out just to reinforce your image as a parochial uneducated nyaff.

I think if Westminster had bankrupted us we would NOT be bailing out these Scottish Banks and instead would be in the position of Iceland needing a foreign investor to bail us out.

Get a grip of reality.
37

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 13/10/2008 12:28:24
Now that the state owns the banks, perhaps they will see fit to abolish punitive charges and endeavour to clear cheques in less than the 7 days it currently takes.

A lot has been said that HBOS and RBS are Scottish and that an independent Scotland could not have bailed them out. Indeed that may well have been the case. But the truth is both these banks, although having Scotland in their name and their headquarters in Edinburgh, really ceased to be Scottish when the Bank of Scotland merged with Halifax (which was the principal cause of its demise) and the Royal Bank acquired Williams & Glyns, the Ulster Bank and Natwest. Only a minority of their customers and shareholders are Scottish. Most banks now seem to be global players. How they are faring is not dependent on their size but on how they have been run and their capital strength.

It was greed and hubris which brought them to this sorry pass, by inventing dubious financial instruments to deal in worthless debt while pretending to their shareholders they were creating wealth. The quicker they get back to dealing in real money and serving their customers, the sooner they will return to stability.

38

Graeme2,

Aberdeen 13/10/2008 12:46:06
So Fred has left the good ship RBS. At least he has the good grace to fall on his sword, even if it is gold plated!

There seems to be a lot of hot air spoken here today, the main thing missing is the acceptance of a "Global" dimension to todays markets and, more importantly, RBS is not alone in finding itself in difficulties. Just look at Germany, France , Asia, Russia, etc.

As for the USA they are wholly responsible for the poisoning of the financial markets. They seem to have deliberately hidden the risks by knowlingly converting these high risk mortgages into bonds which basically wrapped them with less risky instruments. This seems a deliberate action and should the subject of detailed international criminal investigation.

Although times are going to be hard I am still for Scotland going it's own way.

#37 Paul- your comment is very parochial. I suspect you need to internationalise your view point.
39

Arfur,

13/10/2008 13:00:37
#3 Jock MacSprog - "Salmond hanging his head in shame and embarrasment"- ehh????????

Little lesson for you - you tool. These banks have crashed because there is no confidence in the market. Salmond ran about mental trying to help/suggest change but due to this laughable union had no power.

On the other hand we have the two halfwits at Westminster Brown and Darling who dithered/waited like idiots. THIS caused low confidence and THIS is a major factor why we are where we are.

If Scotland was independent the market would have seen the efforts of Salmond and confidence would have been higher.

Those two in London have crippled this country in an attempt to save the union (as was the deal they brokered between Lloyds and HBOS). That you support this and these people when you are from Scotland is both embarrassing & shameful and make me ashamed to share a birthplace with such people.
40

G,

dundy 13/10/2008 13:05:44
To step down...there's a euphenism!!!!

#42 "Little lesson for you - you t**l. These banks have crashed because there is no confidence in the market. Salmond ran about mental trying to help/suggest change but due to this laughable union had no power."

Salmond may have run around mental but he came up with no ideas......and let's face it if he had come up with ANYTHING, no matter how laughable, we would have heard about it!
I note that faced with arguments beyond their reach the SNPites reach for insults (you t**l) and suggestions of shameful treachery.....always the same!!!
41

Alfie the OK,

England. 13/10/2008 13:27:20
Ahhhh, Fred gets his just desserts - at last!
As one who has the dubious honour of actually meeting this most arrogant of men, I can only say, 'Good riddance'.

It was when he was busily chopping jobs at Clydesdale that I met him - I was an outside contractor to the bank and saw, first hand just what a reign of terror this guy waged on the people there. Once, after a 'one to one' with the great man, I saw my very competent bank employee contact reduced to tears.....

What a bullying prat.
42

Arfur,

13/10/2008 13:27:55
#43 - No ideas?

What about telling Brown that short selling needed to be regulated better or something would happen TWO WEEKS before the HBOS disaster. Which was of course ignored by the fool Brown.

How about looking for other options and getting together some of Scotland's richest business men to try and broker a deal for HBOS instead of bending over for an English bank takeover?

What about his call for guaranteeing 100% of deposits which would have created some confidence instead of having Darling mince on about 50 odd k being enough and by the end of his speech all the banks shares had plummeted.

Did you not hear of any of these???????????? Probably had your head up your London masters behind.
43

DAVID,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:32:51
#45

1) the short sellers were right, HBOS and others were in dire straits despite what their bosses were telling us. Would you rather not know the truth?

2) Short selling was banned a few weeks ago - so what caused the RBS meltdown? Quite simply - greed, hubris, arrogance, and inept management.

44

Doh,

13/10/2008 13:52:00
#46

The temporary ban on short selling was lifted in the US last Thursday, triggering the massive falls at the end of last week.

Short selling is form of market manipulation and should be illegal. It is noticable that they onl pick on one bank at a time - so they can use their limited funds to depress the price of the targetted bank.

If the government doesnt want to make it illegal then they could introduce a 28-day "cooling-off" period on sahre purchases. If you are unhappy with the price paid, just hand them back to the short-seller - and shaft them.

45

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 14:30:55
“I never once considered it appropriate to put taxpayer money on the line in resolving Lehman Brothers,” Hank Paulson, US Treasury secretary, said the day after the bank’s demise.

Good decision! What's changed?

46

Doh,

13/10/2008 15:54:27
"Taut, wiry, shrewd"

Shrewd? Only in making his own pension arrangments.

He now joins that elite group of bankers that have bankrupted their own company.

Failure has been rewarded.

47

peteedinburgh,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 16:07:40
Now its owned Nationally and run from Westminster perhaps they should change the name.

NatWest seems to be a good option
48

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 16:58:24
Seriously though, you have to feel sorry for Fred, trotting down to High Riggs dole office with his jotters to sign on tomorrow morning.

It happens to the best of us...

Good on you!
49

Marian,

13/10/2008 17:05:58
Quote from Iain Dale website today "'A global problem which required a global solution', says Gordon Brown, trying to make out that he has been the instigator of the so-called global solution. What he doesn't tell you, of course, is that Britain and America are the only two countries which have been hit in such a devastating way. There's a reason for that. With Brown as chancellor Britain let its finances get out of control and encouraged a debt boom, the like of which we had never seen before. Countries which managed their finances more conservatively have had fewer problems. Any rescue packages they are having to impose are largely due to the collapse in world markets because of what has happened in American and Britain, rather than in their own countries. Brown must not be allowed to get off the hook. He set up the current regulatory system and must be held responsible for it. It has failed and he is the man to blame. He was told over and over again the tripartite system was not working, yet took no notice whatsoever. It's all very well to blame bankers for taking short term risks - but the regulatory system which Brown was responsible for not only allowed them to do so but positively encouraged such behaviour. The warnings were there, but Brown ignored them."
50

Media 1,

cape town 13/10/2008 17:20:06
This has little to do with independence, because if it does - then all the American states need to become independent!

This happened because of greed and incompetence.

We will all bounce back, we always do - there will always be ups and downs, and since this a severe down, the only way from here is up!
51

Vincent-W,

13/10/2008 19:19:49
Graham,

Quoting:- "“I never once considered it appropriate to put taxpayer money on the line in resolving Lehman Brothers,” Hank Paulson, US Treasury secretary, said the day after the bank’s demise.

Good decision! What's changed?""

As Maynard Keynes said to a journalist that when the facts change then ones view has to change too - no point in rigidity for the sake of it - is there?
52

Martyk,

13/10/2008 19:25:57
Vaccav. So todays events are a good thing? What colour is the sky on your planet? RBS down again today. 8%. HBOS slaughtered again today.
53

Marian,

13/10/2008 20:07:51
Notwithstanding New Labour spin the following are are indisputable facts:-

The global financial crisis has been caused mostly by the USA and UK: the effects on other countries are knock-on which have mostly stemmed from this.

Despite what Gordon Brown claims, he has been one of the prime architects of the current world situation, and certainly has not made provision for the UK to cope well with what is now starting to bite. He set up the current regulatory system and must be held responsible for it. It has failed and he is the man to blame. He was told over and over again the tripartite system was not working, yet took no notice whatsoever. It's all very well to blame bankers for taking short term risks - but the regulatory system which Brown was responsible for not only allowed them to do so but positively encouraged such behaviour. The warnings were there, but Brown ignored them.
54

Mikmak,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 20:08:28
whoa any perspective on this instead of everyone running up blind alleys with preconcieved notions?
RBS was a small local bank when Goodwin came on board. He turned it round and made it global and the biggest company in scotland (with the HQ here - remember guiness?) RBs is one of the biggest employers in scotland and also provides plenty of other companies with a good income. This credit crunch is global - every other country is being hit. Its not just the UK.
Its very easy for everyone here to go on about inept mgmt after the event - no one predicted the melt down would happen and certainly not as bad as it has been. I don't doubt banking has changed (hopefully for the better) and there is a lot to learn from this.

In my opinion scotland being independant would have made no difference and whoever was in westminster would have had the same problems. Move forwards and learn from this.
55

Vaccav,

Wollstonecraft 13/10/2008 21:09:55
#56 Martyk -

Yes, today's events are the best thing that could happen to fix the problems. That's why the FTSE and the Dow are both up hundreds of points.

We've taken a big step forward and, in the distance, there's blue sky. It'll take a while to get there but we're on the right track.

Vaccav
56

Jobs4TheBoyz,

13/10/2008 21:34:38
"Fred has fallen on his sword?"

He has done nothing of the kind. Walking away with a pension that will pay him close to £10k per month is not my idea of suffering.

Shareholders have been crucified. Anyone who has a pension will in some way be effected by the demise of banks like RBS and HBOS.

If some spanner steals a loaf of bread from the supermarket, he will more than likely get imprisoned. If you avoid paying your mortgage, your house will get repossesed and your children will hate you forever.

These incompetent in-bred half wits destroy the wealth of millions and they are allowed to walk away with a pension? Total hypocrisy and corruption of the highest order.
57

spud the enforcer,

13/10/2008 22:47:36
simply put fred lied about the banks position on numerous ocassions this year, his hasty take over of ABN Amro has dragged the RBS name into the sewer, scotlands two major banks have been run into almost bankruptcy because of un qualified scumbag wideboys, as for that andy hornby he should be arrested for the way he ran HBOS into the mire, but then again why did HBOS hire a idiot checkout boy from asda to run the bank, were they stupid or what, looking at the posiyion of HBOS at the moment i think i have answered the stupid question,
58

spud the enforcer,

13/10/2008 22:52:46
ok mikmak 58, i actually saw the problems coming at both HBOS/RBS and removed all investments from both banks last year, there is going to be thousands of job losses at both banks thanks to ignorant idiot inbreds called fred goodwin, andy hornby, dennis stevenson, tom mc killop and their like, and any honors like the knighthoods the have should be stripped from them for financial mismanagement and fraud
59

Dougie - Edinburgh,

15/10/2008 00:02:45
Vaccav,Wollstonecraft
It's just not true that nobody saw these problems coming. The US and UK economies have been badly out of balance for several years in various aspects, trade deficit, public deficit and private debt. Any realistic economist could see this years ago. Top banking executives with access to large economic research resources should have too. A big part of the problem is that after a long period of economic growth, shareholders and executive incentives prioritise short term profits over long term prudence.
60

Tomdonald,

15/10/2008 06:54:09
Take heart you Alec supporters, Tom McKillop was chief executive of Astra-Zeneca, once Zeneca, once ICI. ICI's founder was Harry McGowan, a humble Glasgow graduate in chemistry {ca.1920) later Sir then Lord! ICI was the bellwether of the Stock Market for about 80yr before being bought by the Dutch (?Amro). Roll on USEurope!!

 

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