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Bad weather - we have to get used to it

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Published Date: 10 January 2008
METEOROLOGISTS last night said Scots will need to learn to live with the extreme weather and the chaos it has brought to the country over the past few days, as the unpredictable effects of climate change begin to bite.
Experts from the Met Office told MSPs that the wetter winters and drier summers which would be visited on Scotland could bring "increased intensity of severe weather events" – such as flash flooding – in the years ahead.

They were speaking as Scot
land struggled to recover from the gale-force winds and torrential rain which have battered the country for almost 24 hours.

Hundreds of homes were still without power last night and the transport network had been badly hit, throwing the plans of thousands into chaos and causing misery for commuters.

As the wind whipped around Holyrood, politicians were told to expect major climate changes as a result of global warming.

Professor John Mitchell, the Met Office's director of climate change, said the rain would become more intense, which can cause flash flooding.

The environment and rural affairs committee was warned that only 50 per cent of Scotland was covered by high-resolution radars which could predict flooding. More than 90 per cent of England is covered by such technology.

Among the neglected areas is Moray, which has suffered devastating floods over the past decade.

Stephen Noyse, director of operations at the Met Office, said up to £15 million would be required to bring Scotland in line with England. He also recommended a new expert forecast centre be set up to coordinate action.

Mr Noyse warned that the chaos between agencies in the wake of last summer's flooding in England would be replicated north of the Border if there was such a disaster today. He said: "There's a real opportunity, I think, for Scotland to take a leading role in the UK to show what could be done.

"One of these is to invest in weather radars. But I think something more important would be to look at setting up a joint forecasting centre for floods, where organisations like Sepa (the Scottish Environment Protection Agency] and the Met Office are integrated to work together, to target investment and provide information to the public and emergency responders, and provide early warning of the event."

He said such a centre, with between ten and 20 members of staff, could be set up within six months if the agencies were tasked to do it.

Prof Mitchell agreed with John Scott MSP that extreme weather events which had previously happened once a century might now happen every ten to 15 years.

He said by the end of the century, temperatures would have increased by between 1 and 3.5C, and there would be more intense rainfall in both summer and winter.

Speaking after addressing MSPs at an inquiry into flooding and flood management, he told The Scotsman the temperature rise could be slowed if greenhouse gases were reduced.

He compared cutting the pollution to paying off a mortgage – although early contributions barely made a dent in the debt, a few years down the line they became very significant.

Met Office forecaster John Hammond added: "In general terms, climate change means droughts become more severe, summers become hotter and – the key for Scotland – winters become milder. Snow becomes less of a threat, but the other side is they become wetter as well."

IMPERFECT STORM CAME FROM NOWHERE

IT BEGAN to build silently over the Atlantic in the early hours of Monday – an area of low pressure that was barely a blip on the forecasters' radar.

At a point where warm air rose up to hit a cold front descending south, winds began to whip, working themselves up to gale force.

Furiously, the patch began to power north-west of Northern Ireland, spewing vicious rainstorms out on to Scotland, catching the evening commuters on their way home from work. The Met Office issued severe weather warnings and the nation braced itself for the onslaught.

The first casualty was at 11:30pm on Tuesday. Mark Bradshaw, 34, careered into the River Clyde after his car went off Greenock Road between Largs and Skelmorlie in Ayrshire.

A bank-bursting wave engulfed the car, driving it through the crash barrier. He was able to scramble through the smashed passenger-door window and back up the seawall to the road.

Just before midnight, while he was being treated at the scene for hypothermia, shock and bruises, the low pressure crashed into Argyll and Bute, unleashing gale-force winds and storms, before hurtling north-east along the Inner Hebrides to Sutherland and Cape Wrath.

At its lowest point, it had sunk to just 965 millibars: as one Met Office forecaster said, quite an impressive depth.

It sent gusts of up to 80mph and heavy rain into central, western and southern Scotland overnight.

Ferry services between Northern Ireland and Scotland were suspended and, when they restarted yesterday morning, were delayed by up to half an hour.

In Glasgow, where the gusts of wind hit peaks of 83mph, one of the city's best-known landmarks, the Great Eastern Hotel, was partially destroyed. Police closed off Duke Street in the East End at 2am after its roof was blown off, sending chunks of masonry on to the street below.

In Dundee, a section of the roof at Seabraes Hall, student accommodation in Seabraes Court, was blown off at about 3am, damaging cars parked below, as well as a lamp post.

At 3:45am, a train crashed two miles north of New Cumnock in Ayrshire when it struck a tree that had blown on to the line. The driver was taken to Ayr Hospital with minor injuries.

As the country began to rouse, the Met Office issued a severe weather warning of winds up to 80mph, with the prospect of structural damage, and the Forth Road Bridge was closed – although initially cars were allowed to continue to cross.

But by 9:40am, 8ft sections of a painting platform above the carriageways had been torn down by winds which reached 81mph. Some of the panels, weighing 77lb, hit a walkway and the total closure caused five-mile tailbacks at the alternative crossing, the Kincardine Bridge.

Snow was an additional problem on the A884 in Lochaber and high routes in Ross and Cromarty and Sutherland. Combined with ice, it made driving hazardous in Badenoch and Strathspey, and the ski road to the Cairngorms was shut due to stormy conditions.

The resort itself was stormbound due to winds which, at 10am, hit a peak of 140mph.

Blizzards also forced the Glenshee centre to shut.

At 10:08am, Highland Council reported four schools closed due to the weather, affecting 138 pupils; by noon, ten were closed, with 270 children sent home.

In the Western Isles, all 12 schools on Uist and Barra – with a total of some 940 pupils – were closed, and police warned motorists of hazardous driving conditions.

At Caledonian MacBrayne, Scotland's main ferry operator, nearly every service between the mainland and the islands ground to a halt late on Tuesday and early yesterday morning, with some cancelled for the duration of the day.

By 10am, it reported disruption to only two of its ferry routes, but later sailings to the Small Isles and Colonsay were cancelled and there was disruption to several other services.

Five of the firm's scheduled routes, from Mallaig to Canna, Ballycastle to Rathlin, Berneray to Leverburgh, Tayinloan to Gigha, and Oban to Kennacraig, were cancelled altogether yesterday.

Elsewhere, the Northlink Ferries Pentland Firth route saw two services, from Stromness and Scrabster, cancelled yesterday evening. Orkney Ferries also cancelled its late sailing to Rousay.

P&O Ferries services in Scotland were largely unaffected, with only minimal delays.

By mid-morning, the Skye and Kessock bridges had been closed to high-sided vehicles and the bridge to Scalpay in the Western Isles was also shut for a time in the morning. The Dornoch bridge was blocked when a lorry overturned. Further south, the Tay and Erskine bridges were closed to all traffic, and the Friarton bridge at Perth to all high-sided vehicles.

Tayside Police were inundated with calls. Trees and branches littered the roads, although few routes were closed for long.

However, train passengers suffered disruption and delays caused by a Scotland-wide 50mph speed limit.

All Dunblane-Edinburgh trains and half of those on the main Edinburgh-Glasgow line were cancelled because of mile-long flooding at Winchburgh in West Lothian, and damage to overhead power lines closed the routes between Glasgow, Ardrossan and Largs. Some 40 passengers on the London-Aberdeen sleeper had to be transferred to buses after it hit a tree at Leuchars in Fife, and two platforms at Edinburgh Waverley were closed after panes from the glass roof fell and smashed.

Some 20 flights, including British Airways services between Edinburgh and Glasgow and Heathrow and Gatwick, were cancelled.

The misery continued into the night, with energy firms still struggling to reconnect power to some of the 22,000 homes which had been cut off.

The reopening of the Forth Road Bridge at 6pm failed to ease major evening tailbacks which had built up on the M9.

As the low pressure drifted by, and forecasters issued soothing reassurances that today would be calmer, the taillights of hundreds of commuters' cars flashed around the Kincardine Bridge as they battled against long delays to get home.

• Additional reporting by Frank Urquhart, Martyn McLaughlin, Alastair Dalton and John Ross.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 January 2008 9:11 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Weather
 
1

weeshooie1,

Australia 10/01/2008 00:33:33
If last summer was anything to go by, it must have been very bad before :o(
2

Clan-destine,

Kyoto Japan 10/01/2008 00:34:48
Bad weather-we have to get used to it"Has Scotland ever had anything else but bad weather?{especially in winter} I think after a few thousand years of bad weather we're pretty much resigned to it by now and very much used to it....is this news? It's a bit like a headline that says "Jings!Ice found in Iceland!!"
3

Conan the Librarian™,

10/01/2008 00:43:20
3
Remember they just launched the "Green Issue".
There "will" be follow up articles...
4

Conan the Librarian™,

10/01/2008 00:57:47
3
Meant 2 of course.Bed now.
Was kept awake by all the noise last night.
And all the buckets falling over didn't help either.
5

Statsman,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 01:00:44
We never had bad weather in Scotland when I was a kid. It was all sunshine and magic love pixies. Damn this global warming!
6

Jock 107,

10/01/2008 01:03:26
Its the fault of the MWPs - they've devolved bad weather to us
7

DunCraig,

Brisbane 10/01/2008 01:18:17
"METEOROLOGISTS last night said Scots will need to learn to live with the extreme weather and the chaos it has brought to the country over the past few days, as the unpredictable effects of climate change begin to bite."

These meteorolgists must be babes in nappies! What evidence do the have, to espouse the theory that this weather event is due to the "unpredictable effects of climate change"? To me, it's nothing more than the usual January gales that sweep in from the Atlantic on a frequent, regular basis! I seem to remember a similar 'gale' ripping tiles off & chimney stacks landing on cars in the sixties! The more things change, the more they stay the same!
8

Navvy,

10/01/2008 01:32:35
"Ferries ground to a halt" I hope that they will be refloated without too much damage or delay

Forth Road Bridged closed all day. That is the best reason I have yet seen for building another bridge and not a tunnel
9

tomi,

10/01/2008 01:44:30
Was it not climate change that wiped out the dinosaurs?

10

Teofilio Cubillas,

On the Kincardine Bridge 10/01/2008 02:00:48
'Bad weather - we have to get used to it'

We are used to it - that's why we wear coats,hats and scarves in January, not surf gear and flip flops.....
11

Edward,

10/01/2008 02:36:39
'METEOROLOGISTS last night said Scots will need to learn to live with the extreme weather'
Absolute guff!
Not sure where these so called meteorologist have come from, but they certainly are not familiar with a Scottish winter. Gales, Snow, Rain etc is the normal weather during the winter period and nothing to to do with so called climate change
12

Guga II,

Rockall 10/01/2008 03:06:24
What a load of garbage.

Bad weather in Scotland in January, who'd have believed it? We never had gales, or hail or heavy rain or snowstorms in January in Scotland. It was always a sub-tropical paradise at this time of year.

What have these so-called meteorologists been smoking?
13

Birdie,

Foster City 10/01/2008 03:17:11
No.7 is so right. I am 82 years old and remember those winters with chimney pots flying all over the street. Scotland has never had mild winters.
14

John Blackley,

Austin, TX 10/01/2008 03:40:25
Oh for heavens' sake! A few roofs got blown off, a few thousand people lost power for a few hours and a few trains didn't run (now there's news!). Hardly Hurricane Bleedin' Katrina, is it?

But then, there's the whole point of this Chicken Little sermon, right there in the middle of the article: fifteen million quid and a new "expert forecasting center" (whatever that is when it's at home).

So, woe unto us! We're dooomed! Doomed, I tell ye! And, oh by the way, could I have a few million quid and a bunch more entrail-examiners and maybe it'll all be okay?
15

aberdeenshire teuchter,

perth, wa 10/01/2008 03:43:39
aye, just about on par for this time of year. sounds normal to me, trucks getting blown over, blizzards, bridges getting closed. Whats abnormal about that?
16

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA ......ex Mexican Territory 10/01/2008 04:10:02
2
Guga II,
Rockall

Dude ,

I know they were not eating shroom omelets washed down with Napa Valley red wine, from Calif.

One must be a masochist to live in Scotland in the winter.

Lousy weather, gales , rain , cold. and unending dark dreary gray stone houses and buildings.

Expensive food expensive gas (petrol), expensive booze (bitter), expensive everything, and no sunshine .

Its a suicidal receipt...... Dudes.

GC.
17

West Aus Hibee,

Perth, Western Australia 10/01/2008 05:30:21
As an Aussie, i have to say that i never really found Scottish winters that bad (although my wife and I lived in Edinburgh, so cant comment on life further north). In fact, while we were sitting at home on Boxing day here in Perth it reached 44C, and we looked at each other and said - "I'd take winter back in Edinburgh any day".....

and i really mean that!
18

weeshooie1,

Australia 10/01/2008 05:52:23
WAH #17,

Come off it, at least you can sit in air-conditioned comfort out here or go for a swim. The only snow I ever want to see will be on a Christmas card or postcard. I remember well enough being on permanent nightshift in the shipyard, standing waiting for a bus, snotters flee'in, cant feel yer toes, ears, nose, lips, fingers etc. Nah, I'd rather settle back wi' a slab of coldies any day, and watch the Boxing Day cricket.
19

West Aus Hibee,

Perth, Western Australia 10/01/2008 06:41:37
#18 haha yeah you have point, although one this i really loved about winters in Edinburgh was how it became dark quick after work, and the pubs always had this inviting glow. Also, the cold made the hot chippies taste even better. ahhh memmoooories
20

Kilted Hulk,

LaceyNW/USA 10/01/2008 06:57:46
Proud ofya my friends, before I got to the comments I thought, Oh Golly gee, I dont want to say what I thought, God BlessYa and I guess its true what I've heard if you want to make ledgend a wee bit stronger, then pitch in a couple of Scots.
21

Media 1,

cape town 10/01/2008 07:38:22
Hahahahahaha!
Scotland needs to get used to bad weather? LMFAO
Who are these eejits who spout this sh1te?
Global warming my erse, its called weather and nature delivers it as she sees fit......
22

Russell M,

Stirling 10/01/2008 07:43:04
Bad weather in Scotland like never before catches infrastructure off guard?

Bridges closed to buses, trains speed limited, public transport - a viable alternative.

Like never before at these levels of cost, bureaucracy, taxation and intrusion into our lives.

Are we getting value for money?

23

,

10/01/2008 07:44:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

an interested party,

10/01/2008 07:50:42
perhaps in days of yore we didn't build substandard buildings that couldn't withstand the weather, perhaps we paid more heid to the weather and didnt all ravel 20 miles to get to work.

scotland is well used to weather, it seems its contractors and designers that aint sussed it out yet
25

conservative,

Fife 10/01/2008 07:57:07
Oh for goodness sake we've had rain and gales every few years in the winter for as long as I can remember (and I'm 60-odd now). A right collection of prats these 'experts' who only seem able to stick their hands out of the window and say 'it's raining'.
26

Gilmartin,

Philippines 10/01/2008 08:01:30
Its all these sputniks that they're launching that are turning the weather upside down ;)
27

Nell,

Teh Preservation Hall 10/01/2008 08:03:26
No. 26:- The report mentions three buildings being damaged by the storm. I only know one, Waverley Station, but I would hazard a guess that the landmark hotel in Glasgow and the student accommodation in Dundee are, like Waverley, not new buildings. So therefore your claim of new buildings being substandard seems unfounded. Generally buildings are damaged because of lack of maintenance.
28

The Lurgan Tiger,

10/01/2008 08:13:56
Instead of purchasing some state of the art forecasting equiprment, wouldn't it be more prudent to invest in some infrastructure such as flood prevention schemes?

Just a thought
29

Unimpressed one,

10/01/2008 08:14:07
#12, Guga II, "What have these so-called meteorologists been smoking?" They've all had a whiff of the gravy train that is 'dangerous climate change". My son who is a student at Edinburgh, tells me that the science lot spend most of their time chasing research grant money. If they link their research to GW they stand a much higher chance of securing funding. Practically none of them believe in it but one does as one needs.
30

SS,

10/01/2008 08:15:12
What utter rubbish!

We live on an island in the North Atlantic 55 or 56 degrees north of the equator, the climate of which is heavily influenced by the Atlantic and Gulf Stream. Of course we will get wet and windy weather in January. What do you expect - warm and sunny?

I remember the articles last January when it was a tad milder than usual. "Are we heading for the hottest year on record?", "Drought predicted", then the summer was wetter and colder than normal.

The media's increasingly sensationalist and hysterical approcah to the weather, largely led by the BBC, is becoming unbearable. It won't be too long before we see headlines such as "Stay indoors, severely light winds and dangerously mild drizzle set to lash Scotland"...
31

Jambo Dave,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 08:33:29
The new lightweight alloy roofs do not seem to bet fit for purpose.Evry time we have a mild breeze we see pictures of new buildings with there roofs torn off.
32

Dancer,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 08:38:43
#16
Well at least we have something to look at and not miles of endless wilderness with no rain fall and at least in Scotland we are not gun obsessed crazies. Remember the Alamo.
33

JimC,

Kilmarnock 10/01/2008 08:52:15
This green thing is getting out of hand. And this sensationalist story is second rate, for one it seems the Scotsman's geography is lacking, the river Clyde as you call it is actually the Firth of Clyde between Skelmorlie and Largs a road that for half a century has flooded, been closed washed away in parts etc. etc. The pathetic sea wall that the scotsman states is nothing more than a three foot metal fence or a short stone wall. Locals have been calling for better defences for years. As for ferry services and bridge closures these again have been happening on and off year after year for as long as I can remember. O and what about a campaign to change that decision for a new bridge and make it a tunnel instead if climate change means more severe weather in years to come. The reality is that American, India and China are showing two fingers to the rest of the world so anything we do is undermined by those three countries. I can just picture the Scotsman's editor standing by the (river clyde) saying “Go back” as the tides of the sea lap around his feet.
34

Farmernot,

oan ma traictor 10/01/2008 08:52:26
Its January.......its wet windy and cauld.......just as it should be for goodness sake........so a few lorries get blown over (news ???) and a few trees are felled ( 1987 !!!!!).........Hootsman its news we want not the namby state
35

Ichthyos,

Hamilton 10/01/2008 08:52:44
#14
I quite agree. But it would seem that the 90% coverage by the weather radar system in England did them no good in recent times.

Do you think low depression have evolved to the point they have the ability to avoid high intensity radar? Or could it be that it just does not work? Or is it that by the time it shows up on the radar it has arrived and too late to do anything about? And what would have been done differenly to avoid loss of power; bridge closures; ferry cancellations; public warnings?

No doubt the impending cyclones will not be the only things to 'spin' until more of our money is wasted.

How much are chicken-entrails anyway?
36

Media 1,

cape town 10/01/2008 08:55:39
Future Weather Reports

Due to global warming, Scotland will be cold tomorrow, wet and probably windy!
Houses in low lying areas maybe experience flooding, whilst houses in high lying areas will not.
Folk who use bridges that are only 2 metres above the average water level, may be washed away. But people who use bridges which are 50 to 100 and above metres above the general water level will be safe.
Snow fall is possible, and rising sea levels are imminent becuase the polar ice caps are melting for the first time in the history of the earth..(Oops, sorry, for the 200th that is)
You have to laugh at these global warming nutters! What a bunch of easily misled freaks they are
37

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 10/01/2008 08:58:29
Where is the evidence that our weather is getting more extreme? I have seen none.
38

an interested party,

10/01/2008 09:00:48
29
i was referring to the newly completed school with its roof hanging off, but you are correct that it is maintenance (or lack there of) that is a key factor.

why for example to we still insist on pylons to carry power, ever year they blow over and every year some are left without power becuase of it, clearly pylons are cheaper than laying the cables and we the public and left to soak it up.
39

Gothic Rose,

10/01/2008 09:11:18
Topic of lively conversation=The Weather. How Very British.
40

Johnny M,

quimland 10/01/2008 09:13:08
I love the way cold snowy weather is cited as evidence of "Climate Change" (i.e. GLOBAL WARMING)
41

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 09:24:37
Good to see all you ostriches in good form as usual. Duh - yes, we have always had mince weather in Scotland (what possessed our far ancestors to migrate to this part of the world in the first place anyway??).
The point is not that we get big storms or heavy rain in this part of the world, or droughts in SE England or hurricanes in the Carrib., but that these extreme events are becoming more common and more severe.
Anyway ostriches, I'm glad we have all you internet experts here and don't have to listen to all those nasty, silly scientists who are all in on the G.W. conspiracy just so they can get their new forecasting facilities. What villians - mwaaaahhhh hahahahahahha! (evil scientist type laugh ;->)
42

Miss H,

10/01/2008 09:31:28
It seems many of the people scoffing are no longer living in Scotland. If you were, you would be aware that the weather is indeed changing. We do not need meteorologists to tell us that, but it is obviously useful to get a professional insight.

It is strange however that this article does not touch on the financial implications of climate change. It is going to cost an immense amount of money to upgrade our transport and other infrastructure to cope with changed conditions. And what about housing? How many homes are STILL being built on flood plains, or what will become flood plains? This has to stop.

The time for committee inquiries is past, frankly, it is time for action.
43

Miss Jean Brodie,

10/01/2008 09:32:18
Hmmmm? Hey! Let’s see now - build a NEW bridge over the Forth - cause if there are bad weather conditions and they won’t have to close it to traffic - where as you would have to close a tunnel - eh? Let me see have I got this the right way roond ? Doh!
44

Miss Jean Brodie,

10/01/2008 09:33:19
Climate change - who cares - if the human race becomes extinct the planet will be a better place for it !
45

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 10/01/2008 09:33:31
My weather predictions:

It's gonna rain, it's gonna shine, it's gonna be windy.

Very similar to the weather 11,000 years ago.


46

Isonomia,

Lenzie 10/01/2008 09:36:45
I read somewhere that 2007 was the coldest year globally since 2001. But guess what the met office "spin doctors" told the press: "2007 was the hottest year in the UK - which proves global warming".

So there we have it, the warm weather in the UK is heating up the global.

A bit like their "spin" on warming: "warming is a disaster" ... except it'll cut our heating bills, make the winter far more pleasant and stop all that hassle with having snow.

But like all pseudo-religious clap-trap everyone is doomed .... so the gulf stream will switch off!

Except the Gulf stream is warm water coming out of the Gulf of Mexico (hence its name) and it is driver by equatorial winds squeezing the warm water out and the only thing that will stop those equatorial winds is if the world stops turning.

.... And of course soon we will be told that global warming is slowing the earth down and that Scotland is going to end up on the cold side of the earth.

.... right!
47

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 10/01/2008 09:37:05
No. 41:- I've re-read the article and cant find the reference to the school with the roof blown off. I guess you are right, it's all down to economics with the pylons. It would be much more expensive to put cables under the ground and maintenance would be more costly. But lots of other things could be improved for the general public if more money was spent on them, e.g. Health Service, roads, Education etc. etc.
48

sceptic,

10/01/2008 09:45:50
We can expect a lot more snow storms as the planet warms up. Did I get that right?
49

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 09:47:23
#49 Isonomia - and what aspect of climatology or meteorology did your doctorate thesis focus on? Probably the same aspect that all these other 'experts' studied - namely internetexpertology..
Why do you think Govts. throughout the world - even the US govt - now accept that GW is real? The UN? Every major scientific institution studying this phenomenon? The Royal Society? Oh, I forgot they are all either idiots or are part of some monstrous conspiracy trying to fool us all, and you guys all know better. Well thanks for illuminating my deluded little world with your shining insight - I wonder why our so-called scientists haven't thought about all these brilliant points! :-<
50

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 09:51:14
#51 - Actually, it depends where you are. At high latitudes, warmer global temperatures (leading to more moisture in the air) DOES mean more winter snowfall - eg in the Antarctic we are seeing this and glaciers growing inland.
Here, though, it just means more rain :-(
51

sceptic,

10/01/2008 09:57:00
#49 Isonomia
"so the gulf stream will switch off!"
Don't worry the self proclaimed "world class scientists" at the "The National Oceanography Centre, Southampton, a joint venture between the University of Southampton and the Natural Environment Research Council (NERC)" have reluctantly admitted they got that wrong. They based that claim on a piece of research that would have failed "O" level physics in its rigour. Of course they now say that it needs more research, for that read more funding.

52

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 09:58:51
"METEOROLOGISTS last night said Scots will need to learn to live with the extreme weather and the chaos it has brought to the country over the past few days, as the unpredictable effects of climate change begin to bite."

What a load of absolute rubbish and lies. How do they get away with it? Why are people gullible enough to take it in?

Last year was an exceptionally mild winter. This winter is more like normal. Where exactly is the problem?

It is a sad reflection on this country that every time the weather deviates from cool and damp we have problems. When it snows, everyone crashes because they can't drive properly. When it's icy, pipes burst because people are too stupid to think ahead beyond the next edition of "East Enders". When it's hot people get sunstroke, heat exhaustion and sunburn---once again because they are stupid.

I don't know about climate change---how about "intellect change"? that would certainly explain the reasons why people not only listen to this rubbish, but some of them actually believe it too.
53

Jambo-ree,

10/01/2008 10:01:05
#49 - You're being a wee bit simplistic there my friend. The danger to the Gulf Stream (more correctly the North Atlantic Drift) is that it basically is a conveyor belt with deep currents of cooled water running in the opposite direction to replenish the warmer water heading towards us. With global warming, ice caps will continue to melt releasing vast quantities of fresh water and changing the salinity of the sea and this in turn could prevent the 'conveyor' belt effect. Result - Gulf Stream/North Atlantic drift stops and we end up with the same climate as our latitudes have on the other side of the Atlantic i.e. Newfoundland. And that is scary.
54

Freddie Moran,

Largs 10/01/2008 10:02:58
One bad storm in a year, what are we talking about. Last one was Dec 31 2006. Normally its more like two or three. Would also be interesting to see where the electricity needed to keep Scotland going yesterday came from, and if 97% of it was non nuclear generated.
55

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 10/01/2008 10:04:50
#52 For every expert crying out about GW there's another putting down the theories. The facts speak for themselves nobody has noticed any particular change in the weather patterns, winters are still cold and miserable summers are still relatively warm but yet still miserable with the occasional proper sunny day. The fact is the GW myth is another global economy money making scam which has people like you fooled.
56

Thunderstruck,

10/01/2008 10:13:08
Spin, spin and more spin.

We have had one, repeat ONE, big gale since the last equinox blew through so cue warnings of "more frequent" severe weather events.

Perhaps our "experts" can enlighten us on what caused enormous amounts of damage in January 1968 and explain why engineers have, thankfully, the foresight to design to survive "50 or 100 year storms".

We can only hope that these experts are not too big a drain on the public purse.
57

Alexander,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:20:41
#54
You might have mentioned that was a "peer reviewed" paper submitted to and approved by the IPCC. Since the conclusions were based on current flow data taken at different times of the year at various points in the Atlantic and they assumed the flow to be constant throughout the year one wonders if they fell into the traditional trap of deciding on the result before examining the data.
58

Prof,

10/01/2008 10:21:37
Yet another extremely feeble attempt by the Hootsman and the green brigade to push global warming. What next -"we can all relax as the world is flat and the water will run off the edges into oblivion". A bit like this article!
59

Patrick/Edinburgh,

Here and There 10/01/2008 10:22:05
This headline should be posted at the border, at the airport, in the hospital delivery room, at the real estate office, down at the docks and at the shoe and boot store. "Welcome to Scotland" But lets not joke about the reality, harsh weather is harsh weather, and we are only people. We do want to help one another.

I don't gather any scientific reality with the golbal warming, if we didnt warm the earth we would die as a species, cause we would freeze to death. What are we supposed to do just stop living! Always the political movement. Must be nice not to have a real job. Oh yes. " We are doing what we love and everybody else is spoiling our fun."
60

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:29:30
#58 - Unfortunately, there IS a very large consensus amongst climatologists. In a recent IPCC survey, over 95% of those currently researching in the field believe that it is 'almost certain' or 'extremely likely' that GW is real and man made.
While a consensus is not proof, the evidence is increasing year by year. We ALL hope they are wrong, but it's becoming increasingly unlikely...
61

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 10/01/2008 10:34:24
Holy jeez! Gales in January? I recall much worse about 10 years ago when the caravan we had at that time practically took off from the drive. "Experts" and especially politicians should be made aware that seasonal variations in weather are, in fact, err, seasonal. But I'm sure they know this anyway it's just another excuse to get the head in the trough for GW tax and research grants! Easy money.
62

Horrible Cankers..dans le Cyber Shebeen,

10/01/2008 10:35:23
So they Great Eastern Hotel had its roof partially blown off?.......when this building was a homeless men's hostel the top floor was shut off because of the damaged and leaking roof...for years...the Great Eastern CLOSED in 2001 so this roof has remained rotting since then....anyone care to comment on this from those who acquired the building...Milnkbank Housing Association?....why is it being left to rot?...and if anyone had been killed by falling/flying masonary would you have been responsible?....come to think of it, who actually own that building?
63

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:36:39
#60 - The authors DID note in the paper that observed changes are 'uncomfortably close' to uncertainties in measurements. The hysteria over this HYPOTHESIS was crerated by the media. Hypothesis are there to be tested and proved, or in this case possibly disproved. Talking of hypothesis, I have yet to see any ideas from the skeptics giving a possible alternative to the observed increase in global temperatures, when solar activity data shows that we should currently be seeing a decrease. As with 'scientific creationists' the climate change skeptics pick false holes in the opposing theories while absolutely failing to come uo with even a shred of a theory that will stand up to and kind of close scrutiny...
64

hud of sleat,

yorkshire 10/01/2008 10:37:23
People in Scotland have my sympathy, but the weather is as it is and you did choice to live or stay in Scotland. If you don’t like it because of the weather, why not move else where. I will gladly change houses with you.
65

Expatgirl,

10/01/2008 10:37:28
This is a lot of hype put out by the environmental industry which is spinning out of control. The occasional storm is nothing new. I remember storms like this from the 70's and 80's - garden sheds blown over, the Erskine Bridge closed. There was a huge one in England where Sevenoaks lost some of their historic trees.
I'm not sure how much I trust the news from a paper who doesn't know the difference between "careened" and "careered." Career is a noun and can't have a past tense!!
66

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:37:37
One of the world's largest insurers warned of the economic costs of global warming.

"Climate change will significantly affect the health of humans and ecosystems and these impacts will have economic consequences," concludes a new study cosponsored by Swiss Re, a global re-insurance company
67

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:38:57
#64 - WOW! Seasonal variations!! I wonder why they didn't spot that!
68

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:39:48
Premiums are having to be increased across Europe to cope with the number and frequency of extreme weather events, and some parts were becoming uninsurable because of repeated flooding.

Thomas Loster, of Munich Re, one of the world's largest reinsurance companies, said householders in lower risk areas might soon be faced with having to pay a €500 (£350) excess to get insurance for extreme weather events.

69

Mixu Paatelainen,

In the hotseat at ER 10/01/2008 10:43:18
You utter muppet.

This is Scotland and it is winter - get a grip of yourself. Stop trying to spin every bloody insignificant turn of weather into a global warming scare story. Long term forecasts predicted this weather in late autumn.

Don't journalist undertake research before their sausage fingers are allowed near a keyboard any more.

Pathetic.
70

Harbinger,

Land of my turbines 10/01/2008 10:44:07
I knew there was commonsense out there, great responses

They've found the guy responsible for this bad weather: "Professor John Mitchell, the Met Office's director of climate change, said the rain would become more intense, which can cause flash flooding."

At least that what his computer model came up with, but if he's directing it, he should go for something a bit more gentle.

#47 Miss Jean Brodie, go ahead, volunteer.
71

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:44:58
#68 - Language is flexible and evolves, so 'career' can have many tenses as it likes!
Can't people get it through their heads that yes, storms HAVE always happened (duh!) but we are talking about an increasing FREQUENCY and SEVERITY. Sea temperatures ARE increasing, and storms get their energy from - guess where - the seas. The sea temperature ALSO determines how much water is in the atmosphere and hence how much rain falls. So, when we DO get these storms, the average rainfall and wind strength is increasing, and will more than likely CONTINUE to increase. GW doesn't mean that the severity of ANY particular storm can be blamed on human activities, but that overall, we ARE having and impact. Humans DON'T influence the weather. We DO influence the climate.
72

morris,

edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:46:43
2

Exactly!WELL SAID .

I recall every winter for years a road running from Cake Bridge(They wont allow a male chicken apprarently) to Tomintoul was closed by snow.I was amazed to see a snowplow there in the Summer ! A local explained you have to bring it up in the summer! Its too snowy for it to climb up in the winter!They apparently run it down the hill,and thats it! If it snows again its helipcopters!

At the Lecht the road looks like a giant slalom with huge poles marking the road,so they can find it in winter! We are well used to Scotlands climate,WE LIVE HERE !
73

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 10/01/2008 10:47:27
Five high sided empty lorries blew over ?
On the M74 yesterday afternoon, a 'new' sign, HGV Lorries speed limit 30MPH due to high winds.
Did any HGV Drivers take note, no-one!!
74

Alexander,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:51:48
#66
The "world class experts" found that the flow had decreased by 35% over the period of their observations. That was not a hypothesis that was a conclusion reached by making a totally unjustified, scientifically naive, assumption. As usual you want to blame the messenger "was crerated by the media". The "green brigade" in their usual manner extrapolated the dubious findings to tell us that Scotland could become an icy waste within, if I recall rightly, "7 to 10 years"
75

Iain's,

10/01/2008 10:58:36
DONT PANIC!

The 'Forestry' is going to cut down all its trees so that the trees don't fall on anyone or anything. Trees are obviously a serious Health & Safety risk.

I always believed that 80 mph winds were normal, even in Edinburgh. My Dad was always putting slates back!

76

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 10/01/2008 10:59:58
Insomnia (49)- get some sleep.
1. Despite what "you saw somewhere" Prof. Phil Jones, Director of the Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia, opines that "The fact that 2008 is forecast to be cooler than any of the last seven years (and that 2007 did not break the record warmth set on 1998) does not mean that global warming has gone away. What matters is the underlying rate of warming - the period 2001-2007 with an average of 0.44 °C above the 1961-90 average was 0.21 °C warmer than corresponding values for the period 1991-2000."
2. The Gulf Stream is part of the Global Oceanic Conveyer driven by thermo-haline factors- not wind. Basically cold water at the poles drives this mechanism; if the water is not sufficiently cold it breaks down. If this "large scale discontinuity" occurs the oceans die. However this scenario remains unlikely in the near future. Thanks for posting though...
77

Nikostratos,

10/01/2008 11:22:50
Well you can blame the snp for the continuing bad weather it is the Luddite attitude towards nuclear energy which will create more greenhouse gases. If we went down the nuclear path like France there would be less of a carbon footprint and we could do something to reverse this extreme weather.

78

SW,

P&K 10/01/2008 11:27:54
So, if GW continues London will be drowned by the sea. If we stop CO2 then the earth cools and Scotland gets covered in 3Km of Ice!

Off to put the central heating on......

79

Unimpressed one,

10/01/2008 11:32:41
Remember the 1968 hurricane we had in central Scotland? No talk then of 'climate chaos'. The exceptionally cold winters of 1947/1963? No met office 'experts' then telling us to get used to it because we caused it. Scots are used to moaning about the weather. Seems that now we can revert back to pagan times and 'do' something by offsetting our carbon sins. What a load of sh*te!
80

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:37:34
#77 - It was made clear that the results could easily be the result of natural variation - and subsequent research showed this. The media do like a good drama!
A decent summary of the possible effects of GW on the North Atlantic circulation can be found here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_thermohaline_circulation
81

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:41:28
#82 -
I give up - it's like trying to talk to a brick wall here!
Yes, this storm can't be blamed on GW, yes we have always had storms, but also YES - GW is causing the climate to change. If the media misreport this, blame them, not the meteorologists or climatologists who would never say 'that storm was caused by global warming'. It's the muppets who misrepresent them or misread the article (like 90% of the writers here) who cause the problems.
82

PJ,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:42:16
People seem to have forgotten Scotland was battered by hurricane-force winds gusting as strong as 120 miles per hour back in 2002, or Wind speeds of 124 mph which were recorded in the Western Isles in 2005.

How about the winter of 1989-1990 which was one of the stormiest winters on record. One of the peak periods of stormy weather during this winter occurred during the last third of January and more specifically on 25th January, Burns' Day. A wee bit of wind and everyone panics, it's weather get on with it!!
83

Captain Flint,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:42:18
It's official: Scotsman readers know more about the weather than meteorologists. Go figure.

Is there anyone out there (meteorologist or layperson) who believes that Scotland gets as much snow nowadays as we did thirty years ago? Anyone at all?
84

Jambo-ree,

10/01/2008 11:43:50
#82 - No-one is saying things have not been conditions as bad in the past. What we ARE being warned about is that the incidence of these is likely to increase.
85

hud of sleat,

yorkshire 10/01/2008 11:45:01
Gentlemen! Gentlemen! Please.

Nature is nature and you can't change that. Can you.

Why all this back stabbing. Mind you. It is fun reading some of your comments.

Keep it up.
86

an interested party,

10/01/2008 11:47:59
wither global warming is real or not, we should build structures to withstand the extremes of weather we currently face, previously it has been cheaper to risk it and under engineer and just soak up the costs after the fact.

the ferocity of events hasn't increased but there regularity has, so a patch it up mentality wont do any more.

and on a completely different note, when the media defines the extend of the damage as a £ figure and proclaims 'most expensive ever' they seem to use cooncil rates and thus the price could (should) be 1/2 that
87

Flash67,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:52:28
86 and 87 - Far too sensible comments to be on this discussion. Can't you rant sensibly like all the others? ;->
88

Sqidward,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:01:11
The question is, how this is going to affect our annual date crop?
89

Tapacooma,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:02:24
I wonder how much power was generated from the multitude of wind farms over the last 48 hours?
90

Lock,

10/01/2008 12:07:19
#92,

Probably none. Far too windy to have them switched on.
91

Alexander,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:08:12
#92
Very little is the answer. It was the wrong kind of wind,it was blowing too strongly requiring the turbines to be closed down.
92

suggsy,

edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:08:18
90 (hence 86 & 87): spot on.

The meteorologists know what they're talking about. The science is well established (childish grant-chasing myths - get a grip, please; I remember these playground rumours from the 1970s).

The experts are saying the *one* mechanism for extreme weather events is climate change: they are *not* saying there are no other mechanisms, nor that there have been no previous extreme events, nor that climate change was highly causal to this specific event. In other words, they are saying precisely *none* of the things that are being "debunked" so effectively by the local experts.

Oh, apart from the well-established fact of climate change itself. The inability to accept climate change seems almost as irrational as the way in which some US citizens don't accept evolution. Read the facts and the *neutral* research. It's heavy going, but well worth the intellectual investment. Or continue to fail to understand it, and make ill-informed comments in public.
93

EK,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:14:50
Remember that we had ice ages, warming trends, weather cycles, climate fluctuations in the past without any help from mankind. True there may be an overall small warming of the globe now, and true mankind has quickly used up fossil fuels that had been deposited over millions of years suddenly releasing tonnes of H20, CO2 SO2 etc into the atmosphere. However linking the two is extremely complex, it's still a theory, and it's also extremely difficult to associate specific weather events to global warming or climate change. Politicians, climate change scientists, meteorologists all want to hang on to their jobs. Climate change is an excellent bandwagon. I would be more worried about over-use of earth's resources, depletion of fuels for essential agriculture, hunger, over-population, wars, and diarrhoea and malaria. Get your priorities right, people in power. Winter gales, snow and rain are normal for us.
94

another expat,

cloud cuckoo land 10/01/2008 12:14:50
I am beginning to conclude that the upsurge in media hype and marketing of the "global warming" warnings have been orchestrated by those who have an interest in the status quo and who would like to see "environmental politics" ridiculed.

How else can all the stupidities be explained? The above article is typical of one of the greatest stupidities of them all : that if the weather is at all different from what it used to be, then this is a sign of "global warming" ...

... give us a break ...

I would suggest that the writers of the above article scan the archives for similar storms that have wreaked such havoc in Scotland, and then go and sit in the corner to think very carefully about what they have done.
95

Lock,

10/01/2008 12:15:36
#69&71,

So insurers are trying to justify higher premiums and you take that as proof of climate change? One of the main problems naysayers have is the amount of profiteering that is going on in the name of it. You have given another example.

A guy from the Met Office claiming that extra funding for guess who will make things a whole lot better. Are they going to use this £15million securing billboards up and down the country? Because you can have all the radars and warnings that you like it ain't going to stop stuff from blowing over.
96

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 10/01/2008 12:22:56
It would certainly help with sort of article to provide some actual data, so that people can see what sort of changes have occurred.

It must surely be obvious to the "experts from the Met Office" that a large number of people are ignorant and in denial (if not, just read most of the above comments) and will ridicule anything that offends their wish to feel secure: unless they are confronted with real data, preferably in graphical form that can be readily understood and remembered.

It really is not good enough for the MET Office to brief MSPs and the media without providing this kind of information to back up their statements. I can imagine the MET Office scientists looking with contempt at the ignorance and denial shown in the posts above. But that isn't good enough: you have a duty to explain and illustrate these matter in a way that people who haven't spent their lives studying the climate can understand: and that means a far greater effort at education that is apparent from the above article.

Let me illustrate this with an example. Much of the increased problems we will face concern flash flooding, as the article states. But NO information is given concerning the increased flow of rivers to date. I happen to have data for middle of the River Spey from 1952 to 1990. It clearly shows the following trend for the one percentile flow (ie that flow that is only exceeded for 1% of the time - ie the flows that cause flooding)in cubic metres per second:

From 1952 - 1980 = 92.4 (with little variation)
from 1981 - 1985 = 124.0
from 1986 - 1990 = 145.6
(source Institute of Hydrology)

I have tried to obtain more up to date data on the web, but it very time consuming and I've given up. The above data to 1990 clearly shows an increase in the measured propensity of the Spey to flood (due not only to climate, but also land-use changes).

But my question to the MET Office (and Professor John Mitchell, the Met Office's director of climate change) is this: Are y
97

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 10/01/2008 12:24:56
Contd.

But my question to the MET Office (and Professor John Mitchell, the Met Office's director of climate change) is this: Are you satisfied that your attempts to inform MSPs and the public are followed by screeds of ignorance and denial? Or do you not think that with a little more effort you could have provided data for the public to enable them to see the changes that are occurring?

When is the Government and its agencies going to learn that if you treat people like idiots they will behave like idiots?
98

Alexander,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:37:47
#83
"It was made clear that the results could easily be the result of natural variation"
It was made clear after their results were found to be a nonsense and based on totally unjustified assumptions. It was not a problem of "natural variation" but of assuming that there were no seasonal variations. It is fundamental in any scientific investigation that only one variable is changed between obsevations.
The self proclaimed "world class scientists" failed to follow the most basic of rule of investigation. As was put so succinctly by another poster "They based that claim on a piece of research that would have failed "O" level physics"
99

JayTee,

WestCoastWeegie 10/01/2008 12:37:49
So let me get this right. It's winter, and there's been some bad weather. And now we're all doomed.
Is it a quiet newsday in the Hootsmon?
100

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 10/01/2008 12:41:18
More half baked global warming hysteria cooked up by journalists who know little or nothing about science.
The very phrase 'CLIMATE CHANGE' reveals the ignorance of any journalist who uses this cliche. The very essence of CLIMATE is CHANGE! We have just (dec 18th -23rd) endured a week of intense frost here in the Borders which killed off many exotic garden plants which normally survive our winters. But by May or June we will be having summer days in the 75 degrees F range. That is what planetary oscillation does - it changes the climate, every day, every month every year.
Just 8,000 years ago central Edinburgh was buried beneath an ice sheet that was almost half a mile thick.
Those enromous troughs - Princes Street Gardens and the Grassmarket - were ground out by gigantic glaciers that stretched from Greenland all the way to the Wash. Salisbury Crags were 'excavated' from deep underground as the glaciers removed hundreds of feet of surface rock from above them. And this happened not once, but MANY times over the last 200 million years.

On each and every occasion - all those millions of cubic miles of ice were melted and the glaciers retreated to Greenland again. What melted all that ice - thousands of years before humans or factories existed. The sun. And it is the sun which controls our climate now- as it has always done. Take a look here for a very in-depth synopsis of all the best evidence available - and a petition signed by 19,000 American scientists - which has been comprehensively ignored by the 'climate change' idiots.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm
101

Vivas,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 12:43:46
Breaking news just coming in... and FAO all Scotsmans journo's you can have this exclusive for free...

"Bear defecates in wooded environment."

102

Alastair the First,

10/01/2008 12:52:49
So this storm, not by any stretch of the imagination the worst storm to affect Scotland, is caused by "climate change"? Ok, what was the cause of the far worse storm in 1968?

Climate Change is the new Millenium Bug.
103

Vivas,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 13:05:27
All weather - whether good, bad or indifferent ... warm, hot, wet, dry, windy, frosty weather etc etc is now it seems officially "caused" by climate change.

What was the "cause" of the warm, hot, wet, dry, windy, frosty weather etc etc that we used to have before climate change ?

The Scotsman (ahem) "story" really does take climate change propaganda to a point of absurdity. And keep a close eye on whether this same kind of stuff is being suggested into the minds of tomorrows consumers ...our children...
104

sceptic,

10/01/2008 13:06:39
Interesting that we should be getting all this hyped nonsense about extreme weather events which are supposed to be "consistent" with global warming. There is no evidence to support this claim whatsoever. I quote from that august body of political appointees the IPCC in their Fourth Assessment Report of 2007 "Perceptions of increased extreme weather events are potentially due to increased reporting. THERE IS TOO LITTLE DATA TO RELIABLY CONFIRM THESE PERCEPTIONS" Of course the "green brigade" won't be taken in by the IPCC they know better- based on their prejudices.
105

Media 1,

cape town 10/01/2008 13:21:04
Remove all the humans from the planet Earth! Imagine we are all gone..
Will the polar ice caps still continue to melt to the point that they may one day vanish forever?
Will there be flooding?
Will there be climate change?
Will the Earth heat and cool?
Will the sea levels rise?
106

another expat,

cloud cuckoo land 10/01/2008 13:24:10
that humanity has had a potentially catastrophic effect on many ecosystems, and humanity may yet have a catastrophic effect on the ecosystem of planet earth as a whole seems uncontroversial ...

that this effect can be reduced to something called "climate change" which can be directly experienced in weather patterns and can be ameliorated with appropriate policies and taxation is bolleaux .... serious bolleaux!
107

northeast,

10/01/2008 13:51:48
Iceberg caps have started to melt. Can you honestly say there is no climate change problem.
108

Miss H,

10/01/2008 14:23:49
A lot of people don't seem to grasp what this story is actually about.

Yes it has always been rainy and windy in Scotland. But our infrastructure is simply not up to the job of dealing with the kind of weather conditions that exist now - which did not exist before - which are increasingly unpredictable and which according to meteorologists will grow worse.

It's not about one big gale, it is about changes in weather patterns which are much more fundamental than that.

Ask yourself a simple question - why can people no longer ski in Scotland? They used to be able to, now you are lucky to get one or two days when it is possible.

You want facts? How about this one - Over the last 40 years temperatures have increased in every season and in all parts of Scotland and in the north and west rainfall has increased by almost 60% in winter months.

What impact do you think that has on our farming industry?

Really you would have to be exceptionally gullible to believe that climate change is a myth, that the Met Office is engaged in a conspiracy with government to persuade us that the climate is changing when it actually isn't.

But I suspect reality may only start to hit home for some people when the level of spending required to cope with the efects of climate change becomes clearer.
109

Saoghal Beag,

10/01/2008 14:30:27
Flash67 a diamond in a dung heap, you really are wasting your breath trying to explain what these denialists refuse to listen to. they know they are right and they only listen to those that agree.
110

PJ,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 14:34:11
#111

Mars's southern polar ice cap, has shrunk in recent years due to planetary warming similar to what's happening on Earth and there have been only two SUV's on Mars and both were Solar powered.

According to one scientist's controversial take, the simultaneous rise in temperatures on Earth and Mars indicates a natural and not a human cause for global warming.
111

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 14:49:38
#114, > you really are wasting your breath trying to explain what these denialists refuse to listen to. they know they are right and they only listen to those that agree. <

In my experience it's the climate change fascists who have the closed minds.
112

Miss H,

10/01/2008 15:01:00
116

Climate change fascists?

What a silly thing to say.

You are sadly deluded if you actually believe that the entire body politic and the scientific community are engaged in a conspiracy to promote the concept of climate change.

Politicians have nothing to gain fromdoing that as recognising that climate change is real involves recognising that our way of life is damaging our habitat and must therefore change.

That is not a popular position. If politicians could avoid it they would do so. Politicians do not like adopting unpopular positions, believe me! If they do so it is because they have no choice because the evidence is so compelling they can find no way to ignore it.
113

Thorne,

Central Scotland 10/01/2008 15:01:44
Forty years ago almost to the day Scotland was battered with a storm that caused death and destruction on a massive scale. Just like now English newspapers and BBC News did not seem to be aware or care enough to report on it.
114

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 15:09:32
#117, climate change is the new orthodoxy. If one even so much as questions it, one is made to feel like David Irving and is accused with the same sanctimonious venom as being a "denialist".

Yet the climate has changed throughout history, and doubtless always will do. Anyone who has read of the 'little ice age' of the seventeeth century, or of the many other variations in world weather down the ages, knows that the current fuss is nothing but a lot of scaremongering rubbish made up by people who like making rules and regulations to stop other people doing things.

115

Neil,

Glasgow 10/01/2008 15:09:37
The great advantage of calling it "climate change" rather than "global warming" is that anything can be drafted in to "prove" it. At least when it was "warming" they had to wait for some warmth before panicing.
116

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 15:11:00
#117, of course, I'm once bitten, twice shy. Remember the "global cooling" scare of the 1970s?

Scientists don't always get it right!
117

PJ,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 15:14:56
#113 Miss H

You want facts what about the Great Storm of 1703 which was the most severe storm ever recorded in the British Isles hardly anyone knows the story of the Great Storm of 1703, the worst that has occurred.

Winds and rain lashed the entire country and floods were reported almost everywhere, wind speed 120-mph "perfect hurricane", it started on 24 November, and did not die down until 2 December. Over 8000 people died and the losses of property and shipping were immense.

What impact did that make to their farming industry?

Did they blame Global Warming?

If you have been warped by Al Gore, with his global warming religion the elite of the scientific community and the well-to-do of the social set. Where the sceptics are ridiculed, denounced, and pointed at as they were the idiots then that is up too you!

Fact. A 2006 UN report found that cow emissions are more damaging to the planet than all of the CO2 emissions from cars and trucks.

Fact. Dr. Jim Renwick, a top UN IPCC scientist, admitted that climate models do not account for half the variability in nature and thus are not reliable.
118

fritigern,

Inverness 10/01/2008 15:20:56
Let's assume that some global warming is occurring. It will take some time before the temperatures in Europe reach those experienced from 1000 to 1400 AD. Is there any historical record of extreme weather in that period?
119

blair,

North Berwick 10/01/2008 15:26:23
#33 The causeway option is so eminently obvious and sensible that you can't really expect a politician with the backing of the present day breed of civil servant to choose it. When my wife was a civil servant they had things like tendering dates and penalty clauses in the contracts.
120

redfergus,

London 10/01/2008 15:38:01
If you want to know the truth, follow the money.

95% of scientists support the GW theory? That's only five per cent who aren't scared of losing their funding and their jobs, then.

And you could look at the vast, and entirely new industry of carbon trading, a nonsense in itself: who's making all the money from that?

Or you could look at the governments which are slapping new GW taxes on here, there and everywhere, and yet doing nothing except paying lip service to CO2 reduction.

Yes, I buy a conspiracy theory: once it starting rolling, the global warming bandwagon rolled so relentlessly that the scientists, governments and wealth-crazed entrepreneurs didn't dare not jump aboard in case they got left behind and wouldn't be able to make a killing out of it.

121

sceptic,

10/01/2008 15:43:26
#113 Miss H
"You want facts? How about this one - Over the last 40 years temperatures have increased in every season and in all parts of Scotland"
Are you deliberately trying to be misleading or is it just that you haven't looked at the facts?
The monthly average highest daily temperatures, generally August or occasionally July, from the south to the far north of Scotland were in August 1934. Every August for the past 73 years has been cooler. Apart from 1947, 1959,1987 & 2003 when temperatures came close to 1934, summer temperatures have trended down since 1934.
If you have any doubts check out the Met Office records for Tiree,Stornaway and Lerwick all long term weather stations bathed in the supposed warming waters of the Atlantic.
122

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA ......ex Mexican Territory 10/01/2008 15:48:55
47
Miss Jean Brodie,
-----------------------------------------------

Hey Dude,

There ain't no homo sapiens on the Moon , or Mars , or Venice or any other planet in the Solar System .

And look at the mess those planets are in. With NO water, NO oxygen, and Poker Hot temperatures.

This global warming will happen whether homosapiens infested the Earth or not.

100,000 years from now, the earth will be a frozen lump in the next ice age. The last ice turned California into an ICE rink.

-------------------------------------------------
25
jammy dodger,
Corstorphine, Edinburgh

Dude,
I never said California was milk and honey.

But Dude we get 321 days of blue skies and warm temps and sunshine each year in So Cal..

So the fires burn a micro-micro portion of our state etc . they last a week and then the fires are out.

This weekend in Southern Calif. we will have blue skies and temp 21C°, whilst up North in the Sierra Mountains they have 12 feet of snow and people are skiing.

DON'T PANIC Dude.

GC
123

Kentucky Bloke,

Henderson, KY USA 10/01/2008 15:57:10
Some person once said "Everyone talks about the weather, but no one ever does anything about it".
Visit Kentucky. The weather is changeable, but the horses still run and the whiskey flows and sports enthusiasts fight and virtually no one wears a kilt.
124

Neil,

Glasgow 10/01/2008 16:22:26
I don't think 95% of scientists do support catastrophic warming. Look at the 19,000 plus who signed the Oregon petition which said it wasn't happening. 95% of journalists & politicians certainly do (or being cynical claim to ) & more than 95% of scientists who get media attention do.

The Medieval warming period was not known for storms whereas the 1703 one was slap bang in the middle of the Little Ice Age.
125

PJ,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 16:29:22
#117

Your assertion that “Politicians have nothing to gain from doing that as recognising that climate change is real involves recognising that our way of life is damaging our habitat and must therefore change!” Wrong that is why they have Environmental tax!

If the, as you say “the evidence is compelling.” Why does new research from Stephen Schwartz of Brookhaven National Lab conclude that the Earth’s climate is only about one-third as sensitive to carbon dioxide as the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) assumes.

As you like facts here is another one.

Fact. Al Gore still lives in a mansion that uses 20 times the electricity of the average home, he is consuming more than twice as much electricity in one month as the average American family uses in an entire year maybe that will be his heated swimming pool and electric gates.

In contrast President Bush's Crawford Texas ranch-house, uses rainwater for irrigation and is much more environmentally friendly, than Gore's residence. For example, Bush home uses geothermal energy for heating and cooling, Gore's residence uses natural gas.
126

Max Beran,

Didcot 10/01/2008 16:31:31
Siloch (99 & 100) makes a fair point about a reluctance to show hard data. One reason why they don't is that it is often equivocal - I'm thinking of sea level rise and glacier retreat beginning long before the recent rise in CO2 emissions, or the counter-trend in the vertical distribution of temperature through the atmosphere, not any increase in the scale of the event. Another issue is that of the small scale of the change compared with the large scales of (a) the uncertainty, and (b) the natural fluctuations.

As to flood frequency, there is a paper in the current International Journal of Climatology by Institute of Hydrology (nowadays CEH) researchers with national updates and this shows broadly what almost all research into flood frequency nationally and internationally has shown - no obvious change. What has changed in this area is the cost of damage, but that is due to exposure and the spread of insurance.
127

Sambo,

The deep south 10/01/2008 16:51:57
I don't know what planet the writer is on. I spent most of last summer in Scotland and it certainly wasn't warm and dry.
Growing up in Scotland during the 40's and 50's I remember terrible winters with heavy snowfall.
I hate to agree with Galactic Cannibal about the climate in Scotland making people suicidal. The Scotsman should do an article about the number of people who have jumped off the Erskine Bridge, roughly 1 a month and many unreported in the press. I don't know if the depressing weather has anything to do with it.
128

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 16:55:18
#135 > What foundations are your suppositions based on?

History, which clearly and unambiguously demonstrates that nothing is happening now that hasn't happened before.
129

Captain Flint,

The real world 10/01/2008 17:14:55
Yep - our climate has always changed. Always has done, always will do. No matter what.

But that doesn't let us off the hook. It doesn't mean that we can go pumping CO2 into the atmosphere like it's going out of fashion.

We know that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. We know that we emit gigatonnes of the stuff every year, and that atmospheric concentrations are going up and up and up.

The argument that we can't screw things up for ourselves simply because there used to be ice ages is the lamest, most stupid thing I've ever heard.
130

Tomdonald,

10/01/2008 17:41:26
Hooray!! The majority is, I think from a rough check, agreed the evidence for climate change/global warning is far from proven fact. The GREEN initiative yesterday while useful as an environmental exercise while every ton of petroleum spirit used produces 3 tons of carbon dioxide. Ground all aircraft? I don't think so.
I remember sitting in a train having lunch in the restaurant car in Carstairs station during the 60s after the side of a frozen water tank fell out. We were eventually transferred to a northbound train to Glasgow, thence via Dumfries to Carlisle, Penrith (Desolate in a blizzard!!), and home to Manchester about 9 hours late. Interesting but unpleasant. As a final comment the Met people do a good job in what is not an exact science.
#140 means #139, #39 isn't stupid!
131

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 18:20:36
#143, indeed - bigots of the worst kind. We dare to look at the facts, rather than swallow everything the zealots of the new religion of climate change tell us.
132

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 18:24:34
To adapt the old joke,

"What's the difference between a climate change fanatic and a terrorist?"

"You can sometimes negotiate with a terrorist."
133

Andrew Allan,

10/01/2008 18:32:27
Can anyone please tell that 'LINDSAY MCINTOSH' that she has accidently mixed her Scottish newspaper readers with her english ones, as I'm sure most people up here would agree with is that good weather here is when it is not raining, its freak weather when it is hot.
134

spiky norman,

ice bound globlly cooled southern england (not) 10/01/2008 18:37:49
Of course they could always hire decent reporters who don't write so much biases crap
135

TexasScot,

Austin, Texas 10/01/2008 19:08:07
Rough weather in Scotland? It has never happened before, has it? These scientists must have never studied history. They need to read a good history book or at least the Scotsman archives! For example:

On January 1 1963, the Beatles opened a 5-day tour of Scotland to promote their first single "Love Me Do." The first date was cancelled due to bad weather and the tour finally got underway on the 3rd, with a concert at the Two Red Shoes Ballroom, Elgin.

One of the most-feared of maritime disasters occurred on January 5th in 1993 when the Liberian-registered MV Braer oil tanker ran aground on rocks on the south tip of Shetland on its way from Norway to Canada. A total of 84,700 tonnes of crude oil spilled into the sea. While considerable environmental chaos occurred, the spill was not as damaging as predicted, with a storm driving much of the oil offshore and breaking up slicks. To the surprise of many, within a year, residual impact was minimal.

On January 24th in 1890 the first train crossed the Forth bridge which links Fife to Edinburgh. Sir Thomas Bouch was originally intended to design the structure - however, after one of his previous designs, the Tay bridge, collapsed in a storm in 1879, William Arrol was assigned to the project. During its construction 55,000 tons of steel, 640,000 cubic feet of Aberdeen granite, 8 million rivets and 145 acres of paint were used at a cost of £2.5 million.

On January 26 1861 the one o’clock gun was fired for the first time from Edinburgh Castle. The gun was commissioned to act as an audible signal of the time during bad weather. The gun was connected to an electric clock in the Royal Observatory on Calton Hill by an electric cable over 4,000 feet long.

On January 31st in 1953, the Princess Victoria, a Stranraer-Larne ferry, sank in a storm with the loss of 133 lives; 44 were rescued.

On June 22 1679 at the Battle of Bothwell, the Covenanters were defeated by royal troops led by the Duke of Monmouth and th
136

TexasScot,

Austin 10/01/2008 19:09:23
On June 22 1679 at the Battle of Bothwell, the Covenanters were defeated by royal troops led by the Duke of Monmouth and the Earl of Lithgow near the town of Hamilton. The Covenanters had gathered to debate their next move following their own victory at the Battle of Drumclog. Ideological differences among the Covenanters factionalised them, and the resulting disorganisation contributed to the ease of the Royalists' victory. Although deaths on the field were few, 200 were killed later. Of the 1400 captured or surrendered, another 258 were shipwrecked while being transported in The Crown of London.

On June 28 in 1746, Flora MacDonald and Bonnie Prince Charlie set sail from Benbecula to Skye. After Culloden, the Prince had a high price on his head. He came to Benbecula, and Flora helped him escape to Skye by disguising him as her Irish maid, Betty Burke. The crossing was short but perilous, as the small boat weathered both storms and the bullets of redcoats from the shore. Yet they survived that, and the questioning of government men, thanks in no small part to the cool demeanour of Flora, and the Prince escaped to France, never to return. She was arrested when her part in the escape became known, but the popular appeal of her courage and ingenuity meant she was well treated, and she was released after spending a few years in the Tower. She emigrated to America, but later returned to Kingsburgh on Skye, where she died in 1790.

On 16 July 1832, 31 Shetland "sixerns" and a total of 105 crewmen were lost in a storm. The event is still remembered as "The Bad Day". A London Distress Fund was set up and raised the sum of £3000. The money was raised for the dependants of the crofter-fishermen lost. The crew of one boat did manage a lucky escape from the storm as they were picked up by a passing American sloop. However, the Captain of the American vessel refused to alter his course to Philadelphia and so, despite passing close to Orkney, the survivors had to cross t
137

TexasScot,

Austin, Texas 10/01/2008 19:09:57
On 16 July 1832, 31 Shetland "sixerns" and a total of 105 crewmen were lost in a storm. The event is still remembered as "The Bad Day". A London Distress Fund was set up and raised the sum of £3000. The money was raised for the dependants of the crofter-fishermen lost. The crew of one boat did manage a lucky escape from the storm as they were picked up by a passing American sloop. However, the Captain of the American vessel refused to alter his course to Philadelphia and so, despite passing close to Orkney, the survivors had to cross the Atlantic and endure a further six months away from home before returning.

As the Armada sailed around the north of Scotland in mid-September, it hit a one of the worst storms in history which damaged many ships. Around half of the ships in the Armada were sunk in the storms that raged around Scotland and Ireland in the autumn of 1588.

On 27 November in 1703, the toll from the greatest storm on record in Britain became clear. More than 8,000 people died in 24 hours and more than 800 churches and 400 windmills were destroyed. At least 300 vessels were lost at sea or smashed at their moorings and the first Eddystone Lighthouse disappeared.

On December 27 1995, bitterly cold weather held much of Britain in its grip. Glasgow recorded its lowest-ever temperature of -18C (0F), while Braemar was the coldest place in Britain at -20.1C (-4F).

On December 28 1879, the Tay Bridge disaster occurred. 75 passengers were killed when the structure collapsed under a train during a storm. The subsequent inquiry found that the bridge's designer, Thomas Bouch, had not made sufficient allowance for wind pressure and that the contractor had used imperfect metal castings. Because of this, when the Forth Rail bridge was built, it was the strongest bridge in the world. Bouch was widely blamed for the tragedy and died of ill health brought on by his ordeal shortly thereafter. The foundations of the collapsed bridge can still be seen today as
138

TexasScot,

Austin, Texas 10/01/2008 19:10:26
On December 28 1879, the Tay Bridge disaster occurred. 75 passengers were killed when the structure collapsed under a train during a storm. The subsequent inquiry found that the bridge's designer, Thomas Bouch, had not made sufficient allowance for wind pressure and that the contractor had used imperfect metal castings. Because of this, when the Forth Rail bridge was built, it was the strongest bridge in the world. Bouch was widely blamed for the tragedy and died of ill health brought on by his ordeal shortly thereafter. The foundations of the collapsed bridge can still be seen today as one crosses the Tay on its replacement.

And those are just the events that made a significant impact on Scottish history. Did you note that not all of the rough weather happened in the last century? I'm sure you can find more "unusual" weather in Scotland just by doing a wee bit of research.

People have short memories. Media needs something to write about and scientists need money for grants. I remember distinctly seeing a Spring 1984 weather forecast while on a journey through Britian. There was every sort of weather you can imagine but plagues of locusts. The weatherman said the rain in one part of Scotland was so heavy it "might be troublesome for small dogs."
139

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 19:14:43
#155, >People have short memories.<

This explains all the climate change hype.

If only people knew a bit of history, the climate change panic would have been swiftly exposed as the imposture it is.
140

Neil,

Glasgow 10/01/2008 19:23:08
Nice one Urban Geurilla 148. Like Oscar Wilde i wish I had said that.
141

Unimpressed one,

10/01/2008 19:27:56
#67, "As with 'scientific creationists' the climate change skeptics pick false holes in the opposing theories while absolutely failing to come uo with even a shred of a theory that will stand up to and kind of close scrutiny..." Please show us your shreds. By the way, there is no GW conspiracy, it's simpler than that. Just follow the money.
142

Leda,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 19:40:23
Enough hot air. Lets have some facts for a change.

Last year a quarter of a million home computers (including mine)were linked up to do some datacrunching and forward projection on climate.

A lot of history and statistics were put in on temperatures, rainfall, CO2 emissions etc etc.

After churning away for months, the results were published on http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/climateexperiment

This was not a thought experiment for spin-doctors and politicians.

Have a look for yourself. It is organised so that the dimmest scientophobe can understand.

And which of these two scenarios would you prefer?
Either:-
1 WE ALL BELIEVE that the activities of an exploding poulation are having an effect on our planet, and change our behaviour accordingly to save it. We turn out to be wrong, but we would never know for sure that the danger was there. Our descendants continue to have a good life on planet Earth

Or
2 WE DONT BELIEVE IT and keep on gobbling power and farting CO2 into the atmosphere. We turn out to be wrong. Again we may never know in our short lifetimes - but jings, how our descendants will curse us



143

john z,

edinburgh 10/01/2008 19:41:52
I've lived in Scotland all my life. We have ALWAYS had bad weather.

More nonsense from the climate doom mongers.

Next year: warning from Met office, people in Glasgow will have to get used to it raining a lot in the future. Naw, you don't say. Eejits.

The climate has been changing dramatically all over the world since the very formation of planet earth. Long before cars, or even mankind. It really is nothing new.
144

Media 1,

cape town 10/01/2008 19:48:13
john z

I agree with you!
All this nonsense about global warming is quite disturbing..To make it worse, there is people out there actually buying into it!

I want to know the following.
Remove all the humans from the planet Earth! Imagine we are all gone..
Will the polar ice caps still continue to melt to the point that they may one day vanish forever?
Will there be flooding?
Will there be climate change?
Will the Earth heat and cool?
Will the sea levels rise?
145

john z,

edinburgh 10/01/2008 19:49:43
Leda

The BBC climate experiment is pseudo-science of the worst kind. It is most certainly not facts. As is most of the doom and gloom warnings on climate change.

Climate change is like a religion, and it's believers like the environmental taliban. People with views like mine are treated like modern day heretics. There is NO rational debate or discussion on the subject of the environment. You just have to believe, and don't dare disagree.

Reality is, that most campaigners on this subject are the anti-globalisation protesters of a few years ago, who've conveniently found a new way to inhibit global business. Most of them wouldn't understand science, even if they concentrated really really hard. But pseudo science seem to work for them, and makes great dramatic attention grabbing headlines on the telly.
146

57Nomad,

california 10/01/2008 19:51:09
What's this?? Bad weather in the middle of winter?? I suspect Karl Rove is behind it.
147

Hardrations,

Canada 10/01/2008 20:01:32
A site that might explain how Toronto folks handle bad weather.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZEMRAWaVr8
148

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/01/2008 20:06:27
I believe that birds were getting lost a few years ago as the earth's polarity was changing - as it does. This in itself is supposed to bring about climate change.

Whatever. The double glazing I installed does me fine and getting rid of the storage heater was the best move of all. Wheely bin still blows over, just like it did in 1995.

Don't think the winters are as cold as the late 90's but I don't care. My son's generation (he's 13) will just have to cope with their own weather.
149

john z,

edinburgh 10/01/2008 20:10:43
Of course, as you read further into the daft article you start to see why the comments were made by met office 'scientists'. They want more money for a state of the art forecast station, and better rain radar.

QUOTE : "Stephen Noyse, director of operations at the Met Office, said up to £15 million would be required to bring Scotland in line with England. He also recommended a new expert forecast centre be set up to coordinate action"


Hmm. Not to be taken seriously, I think.
150

rancid brown,

Fife 10/01/2008 20:12:39
Gordon Brown and French President Nicholas Sarkozy both made phone calls to the Portuguese Prime Minister urging him not to give the people a say.

"This is another clear indication of how democracy is not welcomed by the new state of Europe,” commented Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party.

"Not only is Mr Brown breaking a blatant promise by denying the British people a right to vote on the Constitutional Treaty, but Mr Sarkozy is on record as telling a group of senior MEPs that the French would not be having a referendum or Britain would have to hold one ‘and then the Treaty would fail.’

"Surely the alarm bells are ringing throughout Europe when the leaders of two powerful countries are devoting their time to denying democracy and allowing people to be bulldozed into a new superstate.”

http://www.ukip.org/ukip/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=420&Itemid=57
151

Alexander the Scot,

MICHIGAN 10/01/2008 20:48:37

What utter rubbish! When did Scotland EVER have good weather?!
When I lived there I never experienced any, each time I return on a visit, I'm lucky if I get a couple of "decent" days over a period of three or four weeks.
A few decades ago the pseudo "scientists" were warning the world of the coming new Ice Age.
For centuries men looked for the North West Passage, this was all due to tales passed down by Norsemen (Vikings), last year the North West Passage was navigated, not as easily as had once had been, however give it time and it will be.
In Greenland settlements are starting to reappear from under the receding ice and snow. Some figure set the age of those settlements as being around 1500 years old. Now I don't think that those Scandinavian men and women at that time were stupid, they would hardly have settled anywhere surrounded by ice, it really must have been a green land.
AL BORE, a 24karat phony has had his reward, a stolen Nobel Prize, he is backed by so-called scientists getting numerous awards to continue with their "research", while other true scientists, who outnumber the phonies ten to one get NOTHING, there never has been any profit in truth, ask any politician.
152

,

10/01/2008 21:21:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
153

Yogi_Bears_Hat,

Irvine, California 10/01/2008 21:27:27
The World Wide Scientific community is united in this belief:
Change the terminology to fit the facts, but for goodness sakes make it sound like impending disaster or funding for our research will evaporate.

The 1970’s The Ice Age is coming due to pollution, but that stopped.
The 1990’s Global Warming coming due to pollution, but that stopped.
The 2000’s Extreme Weather due to pollution. Ut-oh the calmest Hurricane seasons ever back to back.

The fact is we live near a GIANT Burning Gas Ball that heats our planet, but we don’t control its thermostat. Our atmosphere is 78% nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 1% Argon, and .0383% CO2. Even if it doubled it is less than 1%. Those are just the facts. Global Warming due to increases in CO2 is hogwash, and is just there to frighten us into funding their "research".
154

woodentop,

Behind you. 10/01/2008 21:41:56
http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Warming_Look.html
155

V8gaz,

Glasgow 10/01/2008 21:51:07
I am also getting fed up with being told that our weather is somehow unusual. So fed up in fact that I have created a range of t-shirts - see www.cafepress.com/mardale

Particularly suitable for a cold scottish winter is http://www.cafepress.com/mardale.120417828

Enjoy!
156

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 10/01/2008 22:11:02
#74 flash

Where is the evidence for your claims?
157

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 10/01/2008 22:16:38
#82 Unimpressed one.

I remember the hurricane of 1968. I was 11 at the time. The next morning cars had been flattened by falling masonry and the tenement next door had a huge chimney stack blown over which then fell through all 3 floors of the tenement, killing 3 people in their beds. The wind was gusting to over 100 mph that night if I recall. 40 years ago and nothing much has changed in all that time.
158

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 10/01/2008 22:22:46
#100 Slioch, it strikes me that you are a condescending little s***t.
159

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 10/01/2008 22:28:41
#113 Miss H

You miss the point. It is perfectly possible that the planet is warming, but I maintain that this is a perfectly normal phenomenon. Thousands of real experts agree.
160

woodentop,

Behind you. 10/01/2008 22:29:49
"Global warming is not a scientific fact. Shoot, global warming does not even rise to the level of scientific theory. In order to qualify as a scientific, a theory must in principle be falsifiable. There must be some conceivable means of disproving it. By rendering global warming bulletproof, devotees have transferred global warming to the unassailable regions of faith."

http://www.lahontanvalleynews.com/article/20080109/Opinion/974957979
161

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 10/01/2008 22:57:44
#159 leda

Is that not the bbc software which was later found to have some fatal flaws in it?

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2006/04/18/bbc-climate-change-experiment-cocked

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/04/bbc-climate-software-confuses-200000.html

I know this inconvenient truth will upset you leda but it just goes to show that climate models are not able to predict climate. Even the most pro global warming scientist will tell you that all they can do is show a series of scenarios which might happen PROVIDED the input data is valid.

Looks like you wasted you time!
162

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA ......ex Mexican Territory 10/01/2008 23:02:41
Can any of u squawking geniuses prove or disprove that the planet went through an ice age approx. 100,000 years ago, and that this will repeat in approx. 100k to 200,000 years from now..

Global warming by homo sapiens is an artificial pip squeak in time between the last and the next ICE age.

Just like Scotland is a pip squeak in the Global economy.

GC
163

Itchy,

10/01/2008 23:12:16
"METEOROLOGISTS last night said Scots will need to learn to live with the extreme weather and the chaos it has brought to the country over the past few days, as the unpredictable effects of climate change begin to bite."

How do they know this if it's unpredictable?

And has the weather not always been rubbish in Scotland anyway?

And what's this climate change rubbish? Has the climate ever been static?
164

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 10/01/2008 23:35:05
-- Scotland is well used to weather, it seems that that its contractors and designers aint sussed it out

Which are these people called Scots. You don't need planning permision (too much) to launch a structure into the sea. This is where our design genius focused during the 20th century in building fishing boats fit for a typical breezy January. Most ships would stay in harbours (also well designed) this week but a few were out, driven by idiots or heroes as the industry sees them, and most survived.

"The UK is something we'll have to get used to"

7% used to 84% of Scotland. Today its maybe 6% own 90%. By a few old-time lairds, retail magnates, and overseas offshore companies (for there's loads of money in the arms, oil and drug trades) and popstars.

We can get used to a "services economy" and shuffle about ill-equiped for the climate, or, organise for independence.
165

Itchy,

10/01/2008 23:45:24
"117 Miss H,10/01/2008 15:01:00

Climate change fascists?

What a silly thing to say."

He should have said climate change communists.

Note that the proposed solution to 'climate change' is always loads more power for the state and loads more tax. How convenient.
166

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 23:53:12
More "greenspin" crap.
167

Itchy,

10/01/2008 23:55:19
#173 You are the delusional one. You swallow the contradictory hype and I notice that you have not once recommended a 'solution' to alleged 'climate change'.
168

expat in Oz,

Victoria 11/01/2008 00:25:45
TexasScot has mentioned many of the disasters arising from bad weather in #152,3,4,5. There won't be many left now who remember the sinking of the "Iolaire":
"
Few incidents, though, left such a mark on any community as the sinking of the Iolaire. The Great War was over. Lewis had already lost nearly 1000 of their young men during the conflict; many the rest were returning home aboard the Iolaire on 31st December 1918. The regular Kyle-Stornoway ferry could not take all the servicemen, so the luxury yacht Iolaire was used to transport the rest, 284 in total. As it neared Stornoway, wild weather and heavy seas grounded the ship on rocks known as the Beasts of Holm. On that cold and stormy night 181 perished. These survivors of the war, looking forward to celebrating New Year with their families, drowned within sight of their island home. The tragedy and its effects are recorded by Gaelic poets such as Murdoch MacFarlane, the Mealbost Bard."

Good Weather - Bad weather - they happen and make their mark in many ways - after a December of close to normal rainfall, we are now sweltering in 40 degrees celsius and fearing a cool change that will bring thunderstorms that will cause lightning strikes onto the now parched forests and grasslands and that, in turn will cause bushfires. We only have volunteers who will do their best to contain these fires and some will be injured and some more will die while trying to protect the community.

So wild weather in Scotland is not new - it just happens. No-one has mentioned the great Moray Flood of August 1829 when the Dulnain, Findhorn and Lossie rivers caused enormous destruction in the district. If the meteorologists were able to and did give effective early warning, then, perhaps some of the damage could be reduced. With such a large presence, the emergency services ought to be able to do a little more proactively - like apprehend the truckies Jock ex 45Cdo RM mentions in #76...
169

Scottie,

South Africa 11/01/2008 07:37:32
#44: Well said there! (The changes are much more severe and faster, and in some areas odder, than the 'norm' for climate change. How many more cars, factories and planes are there these last 10 years than the 10 before and the 10 before that? How many more people are there on the planet than 50 years ago and than 100 years ago?)
170

Scottie,

South Africa 11/01/2008 07:54:38
I know Scotland may always have had bad weather in Winter - I've been there during some of those times - but many parts of the rest of the world haven't always had bad or odd weather, and that's what happening now, and more often.

There are places that have had 5 "50 year floods" in the last 10 years!
171

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 09:22:24
Most of the above seem to not understand the difference between climate and weather, or to realise that by resorting to epithets such as 'eco-fascist' etc. they weaken their criticism and reveal that they are incapable of rational discussion.
172

Captain Flint,

Ma Hoose 11/01/2008 09:41:32
Why does Chairman Gordon keep going on about guilt trips?

I'm sure that Chairman Freud would have something interesting to say about that!
173

PJ,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 10:48:03
#194 fred bloggs

Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere behaves over relatively long periods of time.

Harvard physicist Dr. Lubos Motl said the study by IPCC has reduced proponents of man-made climate fears to “playing the children’s game to scare each other.”

So if the environmentalists are pleased with their documented evidence, why were they offering $100,000 to back up claims asserted in the Inconvenient Truth. I am sure for that amount of money, anyone would say the world is flat.

Also if scientists were happy with their findings on the IPCC report, why were dozens of scientists whose work was cited by the IPCC reports as “proof” of AGW have filed lawsuits to have their names removed?
174

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 11/01/2008 10:50:59
Several of the above posts are based on the impression that the above article stated that, for example in #106 Alastair the First's words, "So this storm ... is caused by "climate change?".

There was no suggestion in the above article that the present storm was caused by climate change.
175

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 11/01/2008 11:38:58
#196 PJ

Perhaps you should also look to see what real climatologists eg Gavin Schmidt of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York say about Lubos Motl's views on climate change, viz.

"Motl is so wrong on almost every conceivable point he tries to make regarding climate that my restraint is merely a reflection of my unwillingness to venture into his Augean stables for fear of what a herculean task it would be to try and set him straight. Alas, I am not blessed with any of the heroic qualities required."
176

woodentop,

Behind you. 11/01/2008 11:50:45
#198 of course Gavin Schmidt, whose current job involves working on climate models which generate much of the hysteria over AGW, would have no interest in denigrating an opponent of his work, would he?
177

woodentop,

Behind you. 11/01/2008 12:03:01
#197:
"Several of the above posts are based on the impression that the above article stated that, for example in #106 Alastair the First's words, "So this storm ... is caused by "climate change?".

There was no suggestion in the above article that the present storm was caused by climate change."

The first paragraph reads:

"METEOROLOGISTS last night said Scots will need to learn to live with the extreme weather and the chaos it has brought to the country over the past few days, as the unpredictable effects of climate change begin to bite."

?
178

PJ,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 12:09:14
#198

An August 2007 NASA temperature data error discovery has lead to 1934 not the previously hyped 1998 being declared the hottest in U.S. history since records began. Revised data now reveals four of the top ten hottest years in the U.S. were in the 1930's while only three of the hottest years occurred in the last decade.

Excerpt: “NASA has yet to own up fully to its historic error in misinterpreting US surface temperatures to conform to the Global Warming hypothesis” So if your renowned scientists at NASA got it wrong doesn’t that put the credibility of NASA and the entire scientific community are at stake.
179

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 11/01/2008 16:29:06
#200 woodentop

Quite. So, in effect the article was saying "climate change will increase the frequency of intense rainfall events in storms we experience in the future and the last few days are an example of a storm". That is not a claim that the recent storm was caused by climate change.

It is not possible to attribute any particular intense rainfall event to climate change. All you can say is that there is likely to be a greater frequency of intense rainfall events as climate change occurs - which is what the article said.

180

lynitic,

U S A 11/01/2008 18:41:50
Go figure, some people say that the hurricaine that destroyed Louisiana was created by the government using new satalite technology. Have you ever heard of seeding clouds.
181

Pelon,

New Mexico, USA 13/01/2008 04:51:08
#13, Birdie...
"No.7 is so right. I am 82 years old and remember those winters with chimney pots flying all over the street. Scotland has never had mild winters."

I expect my great-grandfather opted to settle in Pennsylvania in the latter years of the 19th century, partly for the labor opportunities, and partly from the attraction a comparable "tropical climate" brought him - to what he knew growing up in Scotland. More than a half century later, in the 50's, the weather in Pennsylvania seems now as bad as I can ever recall at any time, for winter storms anyway. And I never heard any complaints of it getting bad, or had gotten worse. It was what it was. It is odd seeing a headline like that posted in a Scots newspaper. They wouldn't be hiring some of us Americans to write for you now, would they?

Oh! I almost forgot! What is a "chimney pot", and why do they have wings? Wind, I know, but still, what are they? I've heard of chamber pots, and my grandmother was quite sore when I used one for a bucket when washing my car on the street one day, but then it would take a stiff wind to throw a full one of those, I suspect.
182

Pelon,

NM USA 13/01/2008 04:52:57
What does the Scotsman have against the word "t^ss"? I used it referring to a chamber pot becoming airborne, as in throw, and they didn't like it.

??????????
183

Pelon,

NM USA 13/01/2008 04:53:59
The missing letter in #206 is "o", as in ohmygawd.

 

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