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Homecoming 09: Scotland's call to the world

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Published Date: 17 June 2008
THE "biggest ever celebration of Scotland's achievements and culture" was launched yesterday, as the First Minister unveiled plans for a Year of Homecoming.
Cultural, sporting and historical events are to be staged throughout 2009 to coincide with the 250th anniversary of Robert Burns' birth.

Alex Salmond said some 100 million people with "blood links" to Scotland would be targeted to try to persuade them to visit the country. The celebrations will also be aimed at anyone with a passion for, or an affinity to, Scotland.

Events include the world's biggest clan gathering, the biggest celebration of Scotch whisky and the most extensive exhibition of golfing memorabilia.

Mr Salmond said that Homecoming Scotland offered an unprecedented opportunity for the nation to realise its potential, but he told The Scotsman it would not be used to help press the case for independence.

It is hoped the events of next year could be built upon to provide a continuing annual boost from a celebration of Scottish culture, tapping into the ongoing support of the Scottish diaspora.

There has been criticism that Scotland has failed to capitalise on its identity abroad, faring badly in comparison with Ireland and St Patrick's Day.

The Year of Homecoming could also build on the success of the GlobalScots network, set up to tap into those Scots with key roles in some of the world's leading companies.

Mr Salmond urged Scots around the country to play their part in making the initiative a success by urging friends and relatives to return home next year to join the festivities.

"I want to urge everyone in Scotland to play their part in what will be the biggest ever celebration of Scotland's achievements and culture, and our ties of family and friendship around the world," he said.

"Anyone who takes pride in Scotland should spread the word of Homecoming Scotland 2009. It will be an unmissable year. I've heard various estimates of the size of the Scottish diaspora – what I prefer to think of as the Scottish family – and it won't be far short of 100 million people around the face of this planet."

The event will get under way around Burns Night on 25 January.

Mr Salmond said a host of big-name celebrities backing the event would be unveiled in the next few months.

The £5 million initiative is being masterminded by EventScotland, the Scottish Government agency. A series of established events have also received funding to either expand next year or to stage special Homecoming Scotland elements.

It is thought more than 10,000 overseas visitors will be attracted to the biggest single event, a gathering of the clans in Edinburgh's Holyrood Park in July. The entire Homecoming Scotland celebrations could attract more than 100,000 people with Scottish roots, although organisers insist it is too early to make official predictions.

It was announced yesterday that more than 100 officially endorsed events will be staged during the Year of Homecoming, which is forecast to pump £40 million into the Scottish economy.

Homecoming Scotland will reach its climax around St Andrew's Day, when DF Concerts, the organiser of T in the Park, will use every available hall at the SECC in Glasgow for an event showcasing Scotland's leading rock, pop and folk acts.

The celebrations have already been heavily promoted overseas at events such as Tartan Day in New York, but VisitScotland said efforts would start in earnest next month.

Two specific markets are being targeted – "blood Scots" with Scottish ancestry and "heart Scots", who have an attachment to Scotland's culture, people or attractions like whisky or golf.

About 2,500 "diaspora" organisations are already on an official marketing database, while major advertising campaigns are being planned for the autumn in the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Peter Lederer, the chairman of VisitScotland, said: "There's no doubt this is Scotland's biggest ever single promotional campaign and it's an absolutely massive opportunity.

"Two key things will make it a real success. We have to really engage everybody in Scotland to get them involved in events and also get them spreading the word to family and friends. We also have to ensure there is a proper legacy from 2009 and that we build the momentum we get from the events that are staged next year."

Paul Bush, the chief executive of EventScotland, said: "Our events fund was well over-subscribed and we did have to turn down quite a number of applications. Although we've no further funding available for events, it's not too late for anyone to stage an event or become part of Homecoming. They should contact us to see how we are able to help them become part of the celebrations."

Marie Christie, Homecoming Scotland's project director, said: "The programme we've announced is just the beginning of the Homecoming story, and over the coming months we will be releasing more information and bringing more partners on board.

"We think there's something in the programme for everyone and we hope Scots, and those who love Scotland, at home and abroad, will join the celebrations in 2009."

Sheena Wellington, a Burns expert and folk singer, said: "It's a shame that not all of the Burns events that are happening next year will be part of the official programme. But there does appear to have been an attempt to truly celebrate Rabbie's legacy."

Other key events in year of celebration

JANUARY'S Celtic Connections festival, in Glasgow, will be the launch pad for the celebrations with its biggest-ever concert, featuring a host of international acts whose work has been influenced by Burns, above. The festival will also hold a Burns-Caribbean carnival night.


Five of Scotland's leading young traditional composers will join forces for a gala concert by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra.

Other events: On 25 January a Homecoming Scotland Burns Supper will be held in the Bard's native Ayrshire, and a series of spectacular lantern parades through Dumfries.

The National Library of Scotland will host an exhibition from March showcasing the worldwide legacy of Scots music, while it is hoped big-name stars will be lured to the Glasgow International Comedy Festival, also in March.

April will see a festival celebrating the life and legacy of the Scots-born conservationist John Muir, left, staged throughout his native East Lothian. The Inspired exhibition at Glasgow's Mitchell Library will feature new art inspired by Burns, created by Tracey Emin, right, John Byrne and David Mach.

May will see the start of the biggest-ever celebration of the Border Common Ridings.

May has also been designated "Whisky Month", with events including Islay's Malt and Music Festival and the Spirit of Speyside Whisky Festival.

To coincide with the 138th Open Championship at Troon in June, an exhibition of golfing memorabilia will go on display in Ayr.

The Outsider Festival, first staged in 2007 near Aviemore, will be making a comeback in 2009.

July will see the world's biggest clan gathering staged at Holyrood Park, in Edinburgh. The event will also embrace the biggest Highland Games ever and a spectacular pageant on Edinburgh Castle Esplanade.

The Classic Malts Cruise, also held in July, will see sailors from around the world tour the distilleries of the west coast, while "Art on the Map" will see visual art celebrated throughout the Hebrides.

Strathclyde University will also host Scotland's first international genealogy conference in July.

In August, the Edinburgh International Festival will explore how the world's great artists and performers have been influenced by Scotland, while the capital's book festival will look at the legacy of Burns and the Scottish Enlightenment. Glasgow's Piping Live! festival will celebrate the music of the clans.

September will see Scotland's youth performing arts companies join forces to bring the epic poem Tam O'Shanter to life, while Barra will host the first Whisky Galore Festival. Musical celebrations in September include Blas, across the Highlands, and the Angus and Dundee Roots Festival.

A theatre production will be staged on the banks of the Clyde in October, celebrating the river's heritage with spectacular effects, fire and live music. A two-week Festival of Highland Culture will be staged in Inverness.

November will see a festival of "new music" make its debut in Aberdeenshire, while the nationwide Whisky Week will climax with the Whisky Live event in Glasgow.

The Year of Homecoming will close with a nationwide celebration of Scottish music around St Andrew's Day, the centrepiece of which will be a rock and pop event using all the venues at the Scottish Exhibition and Conference Centre in Glasgow.

The 20,000-capacity event will feature the cream of Scotland's musical talent.

HOW TO JOIN IN
EVENT organisers, businesses and individual Scots are being urged to make Homecoming Scotland a success.

Although no more funding is available for official events, Homecoming Scotland can still help promote new events being held throughout the year-long celebration.

Businesses are able to download promotional material for the "year of homecoming" from the official website to use in their own marketing initiatives. Anyone interested in helping to promote Homecoming Scotland to friends or family overseas can send them an official e-invite through the website, www.homecomingscotland 2009.com, which also has a full list of all the major events.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 June 2008 10:12 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/06/2008 00:11:28
Sounds great!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 00:25:00
"biggest ever celebration of Scotland's achievements and culture"

Well lets maybe forget the "culture part" of this statement, lets look at the,..'non achievement's' recently, and the ones to be ashamed of!

Scotland's Politician's taking away the Scottish Peoples,..

'Human Rights'!

Wanting to 'Ban Alcohol'!

Banned 'Smoking' and want to go further!

Take Large 'Salaries' and still feed rubbish meals to our children in a care setting, such as schools and nurseries!

To make an Adult only have,..'Rights' when they reach the age of 21years old!

'Aye' "achievements" WHAT,.. "ACHIEVEMENTS,?

Not much longer until we become the,..

'LAUGHING-STOCK' Of The World!
3

Royster,

17/06/2008 00:25:10
So you spend a lot of tax-payers money and most of the big ticket items, like airfares, will not reach Scotland. The knock-on effect on the Scottish economy will be minimal - in fact it will probably be a drag upon it. The best thing to do is to give the money back to Scots directly in the form of lower taxes. It's just a boondoggle.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 00:32:17

Mind you maybe we are the,..'Laughing-stock' Now!

Kinda like the,..'Muppet Show'! of the World! for all we know.?
5

Resolutions,

17/06/2008 00:38:41
#2 and #3 seems you know little of the culture - the real culture of your country! Well perhaps the 'cringe' is all you know. Negative thinking, the curse and excuse for doing nothing.

Hamefaring has been a sort of tradition in the north for many years. Great to showcase the country and beat our own drum for a change.
6

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 00:39:33
This event can be used as a springboard to bring the diaspora home.

A country of Scotland's size cannot afford to have so many of her own living elsewhere.

I think Scotland should follow Italy's lead (who after Ireland and Scotland has suffered from mass emigration). Italy has given it's overseas nationals political representation. This has engaged it's diaspora and given them a direct stake in what happens in their homeland.

Estimates of how many people that were born in Scotland that live abroad vary but would number at least 600 000 in England, 300 000 each in Australia and Canada and 200 000 each in the US and NZ. 1.5 million plus Scots living in rich developed countries have both material wealth and experience that Scotland could do well to tap into.

A broader view of Scottishness to include and engage the diaspora is essential for Scotland's growth.

Of course the unionists will not want a bar of it. They will view us overseas Scots as sell-outs who slammed the door behind them rather than view us as a resource that should be used by the country.

This is a massive opportunity.



7

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 00:47:51
Charles Linskaill

Make up your mind - you don't support health programs like curbing smoking and drinking but be-moan the quality of school dinners

Glass half empty is it?
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 00:47:53
Resolutions ~5,

The,.."Culture" goes,,..'out the window', when you become,,

The,..'Laughing Stock'!

My post referred (please re-read) 'forget the culture'
9

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 17/06/2008 00:50:52
SOUNDS GREAT, and never let the BORING OLD FARTS ABOVE hold us back. Am booking my ticket HOME right NOW!!!!!
10

MacRae_Warrior,

17/06/2008 00:51:32
#1:

Don't forget 'allowing the English to take away our guns so that we cannot resist them'!

Now, if we can just free ourselves we can have our freedoms back!
11

MacRae_Warrior,

17/06/2008 00:51:46
#2, sorry
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 00:53:21
Dougie Douglas ~8,

We do nothing less than,..'sell out to others' these days!

Our Flag should be at,..'Half Mast'!

My "Glass" will never be, "Half Empty"

I WOULD FIGHT FOR SCOTLAND 24/7,

I am 'Disgusted'! the way others are letting our Nation Down!
13

MacRae_Warrior,

17/06/2008 00:56:36
#10:

Although I am probably one of the hugest proponents of Scottish Independence on the planet, I think the statement that we are 'scottish but not british' makes absolutely no sense at all. Do we not inhabit the British Isles? Would the Romans have made the distinction between us and the English when referring to the inhabitants of the entire area of the British Isles? They would not have.
Now bear with me here-Brits we are not. Brits is a different term from British in my book. It's just another word for English. Thus, we can be Scottish AND British, but not Brits.
14

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 01:01:11
#15:-

"Would the Romans have made the distinction between us and the English when referring to the inhabitants of the entire area of the British Isles? "

Was Hadrians wall a decorative feature?

15

Allan(handofgod137),

17/06/2008 01:06:15
#12 MacAskill wants to take away your airgun and your pointy stick. The events sound a bit too tartan and shortie for my liking, why not concentrate on Scottish achievements in science and technology, and let the arts monkeys get back to doing what they do best;eg flipping burgers, pulling pints and cleaning the pub lavies.
16

Edward,

17/06/2008 01:10:09
#3 Royster
As someone who lives in Humberside, what has it got to do with you?
17

Edward,

17/06/2008 01:10:58
#2 Charles Linskaill
Grow up!
Its idiots like you that keep the country back
18

Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 01:10:58
17
An Engineer?
19

Navvy,

17/06/2008 01:14:08
I like it especially because with Burns as a central part it will not be all tartan
20

Highland Mighty,

17/06/2008 01:27:30
With the Lord God Almighty Salmond at the helm it is destined to be as big a farce as Trump's golf course, Tartan...make that Scotland...Week...make that Day, increasing school class sizes, shrinking police recruitment, soaring student debt, the end of free pensioner travel, the end of free nursing home care and votes for 16 year olds but no alcohol until they are 21!

Could The Fat One be more desperate for a populist headline-grabbing headline?

And where was the poll the SNP took last week? Where are the results?
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 01:29:06
Edward ~19,

"Its idiots like you that keep the country back"

WRONG!

Its Idiots Like the 'Politician's' that keep Our Country Back!

I am pointing out,,'Truths'

For some this may be hard to take!

If some were NOT Mice and realised this, then there would be NO,..

"Holding the Country Back"
22

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 01:30:02
You would have thought it would be pretty hard to put a negative spin on a bi-partisan celebration such as what is proposed.

Nope,along comes Highland mighty.

You really do give white settlers a bad name don't you HM?
23

Edinburgh Internet Festival,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 01:30:21
I wish some Scottish folk would stop moaning about Scotland and start supporting Scottish artistic and cultural events.

There are so many great things going on and happening in our great wee country which never get media attention - This event might just provide the opportunity to give our artists, musicians, poets, writers, architects, designers and creative community the coverage and promotion they need and deserve (at least for one year).

The only major disappointment is the lack of adequate funding to ensure the event has a real grassroots impact within our own local communities. Despite this the Edinburgh Internet Festival has asked for partnership information and will be looking to host our own Homecoming events and projects.

PoL Steele
Edinburgh International Internet Festival 2008
Online: www.scotfestival.com
24

Highland Mighty,

17/06/2008 01:35:02
So the SNP plan a celebration of "singing", "dancing", "whisky", "golf" and "200-year old poetry"?

That will show the world that Scotland is a modern, progressive country.

Genius!
25

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/06/2008 01:39:20
15 Macrae Warrior

Eire is part of the British Isles too. Don't tell me they're British as well.

Even though you have the best of intentions, I think you're on a loser with this one.
26

Highland Mighty,

17/06/2008 01:42:15
28. You are clearly an idiot.

Read this slowly: He was referring to the United Kingdom of Great BRITAIN and Northern Ireland. Not Ireland.

And excellent work fighting among your own! Superb!
27

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 01:44:55
Highland Mighty ~27,

And on the other hand they want to Ban "Whisky" from the shelf!

'Aye' It all makes perfect sense! don't it,?

Playing one Game!,,

"Scotland's call to the world"

And on the other hand, dismantling 'Scottish Culture'
28

baffies away,

17/06/2008 01:54:10
#7 - An excellent idea, however, I have tried for three years to be given the right to be on the electoral register as an overseas voter, as I am entitled to be. I have failed because of red tape every single time. I get refered from one department to the next and eventually back again. Its pathetic, of course it was a SLAB authority before and isnt now so maybe it will get better. Maybe I should have made a 950 pound donation before...
29

Royster,

17/06/2008 02:17:28
#19. No such place as Humberside, it's East Yorkshire; and for the reord I don't live there.
30

glassbenmhor,

17/06/2008 03:19:38
All you Unionistas,including the 'Packet of Crisps' above,

you know it comes to my mind that none of you have travelled around the globe at all,

Everybody including an Alaskan natives sled dog,when the accent is herd claims Scottish heritage.
It's totally amazing, in all my travels I have never witnessed the same for-oar for England, in fact quite the contrary.
Across the Globe; British = England, Empire, Taxation, Union Jack and general historical 'Bad news'.
Across the Globe; Scotland = Bagpipes, Kilts,(men wearing skirts for the benefit of you lot above), fierce warriors, Sympathy for 300years of Westmonster, a beautiful and wild scenery, vast history in democratic intellect, invented everything,good fun caressed by the hand of fairness

So for all you detractors above, in the words of the Bard in any of 25 languages you choose,

"If we could see ourselves as others see us"
31

,

17/06/2008 03:20:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

,

17/06/2008 03:21:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

alexandermc,

san francisco 17/06/2008 03:22:01
Good to see an effort to promote Scotland around the world. I hope those on the comment section can use their energy to provide positive ideas rather than continued negative postings. I agree we should do more than just bagpipes etc. The country offers so much, we have great universities. I am a doctor, recently returned to Edinburgh University, standing in the old stone courtyard and looking at the alumni I realize what Scotland has given the world of medicine. That is true for so many professions. We have much to be proud about, I hope we can show our real strengths.
34

NZ exile,

Auckland New Zealand 17/06/2008 03:42:34
I shake my head i really do!!!!

There are far too many posters on here who would be the first to state that they are patriotic Scots, and they would back their country to the hilt etc etc etc, then in the next breath slate others for trying to promote it abroad.

This is a great idea, and if it can tap into anyones "Scottishness" and encourage them to come home, or visit for the first time, then it can only be positive. I couldn't give a monkeys how its done, be that golf, whisky or god forbid shortbread then take it and stop whinging.

I have lived in NZ for three years now and return home every year, and i will do so next year as well. Away from Scotland, people have only positive things to say about us, our country, and our effect on the modern world. However, in our own country we seem determined to undermine ourselves at every chance we can get, and this is usually done by the people who shout loudest about how proud a Scot THEY are.

So how about leaving the moaning locked away in your cupboard with your bay city rollers scarf and your crankies annuals. Why not try to throw some positive vibes towards something that could well become a great success.

(Bracing myself for the taunts about deserting my country, turning back on Scotland by leaving etc etc etc)
35

Edinburgh Internet Festival,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 03:54:52
OK... Serious Questions to the moaners!

What would it take to get folk like you to stop the whining and to get involved in promoting your own arts and culture.

With the percentage of official funding going to Scottish arts costing each citizen per year less than the cost of a deep fried mars bar supper it surely cant be the level of investment. Can it?

If it's because you feel left out of the culture scene - when was the last time you bothered to read a book by a Scottish writer or take a walk round a gallery featuring Scottish artists or even went to a concert by Scottish bands or musicians?

When was the last time you did something in your community?
Promoting Scottish culture doesn't mean it has to be all tartan an' shortbread - there is plenty of events and projects going on at a grassroots level which would appreciate more local folk getting off the settee and getting involved

Yes- we have problems here in Scotland!
But name me a country that doest have similar or in many cases worse problems.than we do!

Stop propping up the stereotypical image of the sour faced, tight fisted, whinging Scot!

Homecoming 2008 is a fantastic opportunity for folk at home and abroad to get together and party!

PoL Steele
Edinburgh International Internet Festival 2008
36

NZ exile,

17/06/2008 04:35:36
Ah a serious (but good) question, that will stump them, and they will resort to moan whinge whinge moan, it's all too tacky, blah blah blah.

Look at St Patricks day! How tacky can you get? Tacky, yes, but it is great FUN, and all about just celebrating ALCOHOL, green things and oh yeah Ireland. It is a huge day in lots of countries about the world and believe it or not people don't just asscoiate Ireland with that one day. Crazy eh?

If they have had fun being Irish for a day then they are (surely) more likely to actually go and find out what Ireland is really all about.

Lets not take ourselves so seriously all the time!!
37

Jardine,

17/06/2008 04:49:28
#15
"Would the Romans have made the distinction between us and the English when referring to the inhabitants of the entire area of the British Isles? They would not have."

No, they wouldn't, because at the time the Scots were still living in Ireland and there was no such people as the English. The Germanic tribes did not cross the North Sea and drive out the Ancient Britons until after the Romans had left.

Surely you know this?
38

Royster,

17/06/2008 04:51:58
#40. Modern genetics suggests 57% of English and 57% of Scots are descended from ancient Britons.
#38. I suppose you would benefit from this government hand-out. Scots need more money in their pockets to cover rising costs. They don't need to wait at tables and collect coats at boondoggle functions.
39

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/06/2008 04:55:45
All credit to the Kiwis! I have a project designing a ship in Auckland, building'r in Brazil and servicing her from a firm based on the Isle of Skye. As this is being done with "scottish money" progress is gey slow indeed.

We have scottish financial aristocracy that thinks a £M pay rise is only what they deserve and what they are worth. Do Scots see anything for this? Well, the RBS are building a "palace" in Gogarburn nae doot with a "stately pleasure dome" atop the penthouse whereabouts they will entertain their London confreres.
40

Royster,

17/06/2008 05:10:33
#39. Has anyone actually asked if the Irish actually benefit from St Patrick's day? Yes, it raises their 'profile' but only amongst people who know about Ireland anyway. A lot of alcohol is drunk so that benefits international beer manufacturers and a few people may visit Ireland and pay the airlines which leaves the waiters and the odd hotellier in Ireland. Sounds like the great Trumptown affair. Salmond spends millions to get a couple of waiting jobs whilst shutting out high tech stuff like nuclear power stations.
41

scotinny,

New York USA 17/06/2008 05:12:44
Guys..this is difficult I know for a lot of you to hear about promoting our great land when there is all sort of "political disgusting" activities going on, which I thank you for mentioning in your comments....but at the end of the day we are all Scots and whether in New York, Brisbane or down in Kiwi-land (no offense meant!)...we love our homeland...(and certainly, in my case, regret having to emigrate to find "work" many years ago)...We need to promote our homeland not just for the ex-pats but for the future of our land. Anything that is good PR and brings in "any money" no matter how small is good for our country....and remember no matter what "others" may say it is our country; Scotland.
42

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 17/06/2008 05:18:52
I'll be there!!!!!
43

NZ exile,

17/06/2008 05:34:43
#43 Has anyone actually asked if the Irish actually benefit from St Patrick's day? Yes, it raises their 'profile'

Don't think we need to ask them do we, you've just answered your own question.

I would also beg to differ that it only raises the profile for those who know about it anyway. Take Paddy's day 15 years ago and compare it with now? the more it gets marketed, the bigger it gets, the more people get involved, the more take a look into Ireland, and so on and so on. All the shamrocks and shenanigans have to be of benefit, and can't really be seen as anything else.
44

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 17/06/2008 05:39:43
I wondered when the tram story would enter this debate...and there it was tucked away. Now to get back to the main subject,I think the Homecoming is a great idea, I'll write to my old Canadian cousin right away, cos I have not heard from her for ages.....and why do some folk not like Alex Salmond? is it funny eyebrows? I used to notice them actually, when I was not so politically aware.But you have got to hand it to the man, he can talk the talk....( just wish he'd walk the walk re. my bloomin council tax).. but I'll give him a little more time on that one, like doing the sums, cos I've heard he's a dab hand at them. seriously folks BE POSITIVE !!!! NEVER QUIT never EVER QUIT . Keep away from the negative types, it's bad for your blood pressure! And put up my pension while you are at it! Or is that Alistair Darling's department? yes I can't wait till september when I get my rebate ( the 10 p tax fiasco ) remember? Time for my weetabex cheerios Have a really great day!!!!
45

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/06/2008 05:52:13
Charlie,Royster and HM

You are perhaps the most negative people I have never met. You can't even find something good to say about Scotland having a party and inviting the World to come.

Perhaps your Unionist dislike of anything Scottish colours your judgement.

I am sure your pal Gordon will try to have some sort of British festival where you can all hangout in your Union Jack underpants and whine about how Alex Salmond is ruining the country.
46

Royster,

17/06/2008 06:11:24
#48. So you'll be paying for it in Jakarta then? If you love the idea so much then get your cheque book out.
47

Royster,

17/06/2008 06:14:25
#46. Ireland's so called miracle has everything to do with the fact that its interest rates are below inflation. Do that anywhere in the world and you will get a boom in asset prices. There will then be an almighty crash when the prices peak which is what we have now. Don't be so naive. Profiling is just management gobbledegook.
48

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill road.....soon 17/06/2008 06:20:42
For goodness sake its a party not a political party but a party where you can enjoy yourself or not as lots of people on this thread seem to epitomise how we are sometimes perceived as not happy unless we are moaning.

Me and my family will be back, we were coming back anyway but this will just make it a wee bit better and we will enjoy ourselves as always so keep your negativity to yourselves and let the rest of us enjoy the occasion.
49

Colin Dyas,

Tasmania 17/06/2008 06:23:16
When you read some of the whingeing junk on blogs like this its no wonder we had a Diaspora.Just try to be happy and enjoy something you McBuggers, yes you can be happy yes you can be proud, just do it!
50

Phil C,

17/06/2008 06:24:04
More inspiring stuff from Salmond. You never know, but more of this kind of thing and even the non-believers might start believing that we are already a seperate country which deserves the basic right to running our own affairs....judging from the comments above I won't hold my breath though.
51

Royster,

17/06/2008 06:27:04
Lots of posts from the people who aren't paying for this junket I see.
52

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/06/2008 06:27:58
#49 Royster

Since the event is costing 5 Million Pounds and the population of Scotland is 5 Million that means your personal share is about 1 pound. I will happily send you each of you a 1 pound coin as a contribution your British festival.

You can use it towards purchasing the Union Jack underpants. I hear they are going pretty cheap these days.
53

Royster,

17/06/2008 06:34:44
#55. No, there is no need for any kind of 'festival' unless someone wishes to fund it on a private basis. If Salmond wants to get his own wedge out and 'promote' Scotland, that's fine. I would argue that one pound be given back to the people who originally handed it over to the government in the first place. They have better things to do with it.
54

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 06:36:05
KampungHighlander ~48,

How can anyone be anything else than,.."Negative", when if one is 'Truthful' about the matter, one should be wearing the word,,'Shame' on their head, whilst falling down the bottomless pit, of destruction to a Nation!

Someone mentioned,..'The Bay City Rollers', well that speaks 'volumes' don't it,? another embarrassing shame of the Nation.
55

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/06/2008 06:37:58
What's fixed in your noddle, Royster, is that money is a commodity. No it isn't. You might have fun and profit making money out of money but when governments do this, we're all down the plug hole.

The Irishfolk sitting in their new houses built during the "economic miracle" have won something. They'll not be homeless on the street whatever crash, crunch, spike or crisis is artificially foisted by insiders in the financial biz.
56

Royster,

17/06/2008 06:55:47
#59. Couldn't agree more. The London Olympics is a terrible waste of cash.
57

Royster,

17/06/2008 06:56:59
#58. They will be homeless if they can't pay the mortgage with rising interest rates and a shrinking economy.
58

Jimmy the Pie,

17/06/2008 07:20:28
I do find it sad to hear Scots denigrating Scotland.

For all our faults, we should still show some dignity and self respect.
59

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 07:35:02
53
You said 'we are already a seperate country which deserves the basic right to running our own affairs'
Who is stopping the Scots running their own affairs?
In case you hadn't noticed the majority of Scots favour staying in the UK. Nothing to do with English occupation, the majority of your fellow Scots disagree with you profoundly.
Most Scots would recognise that Scotland is indeed a country, but one which benefits in being part of the UK. That doesn't make them less patriotic or indeed less 'Scottish', so please let's have less of the mythology - in election after election the Scottish people have been happy to stay within the UK.
60

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 07:45:31

Grahamski ~63,

"Who is stopping the Scots running their own affairs?"

Answer; The Scots themselves, as usual we act like mice, and wont say,..'Boo' to the,..

'Tooth Fairy'
61

Scotish Exile,

17/06/2008 07:47:03
why should ex-pats come back, sound bites from politicians won't do it. If you are living in another country with a better standard of living, with better weather and don't have to contend with sky high taxes and p*ss poor service, not forgetting the jakies and neds, are you really going to come back to Scotland....get real, just another free jamboree for the politicians.
62

Iain's,

Barcelona 17/06/2008 07:47:17
A great Idea!

Ireland did some sort of anniversary celebration some years ago. It was such a success that it was repeated the following year!

Tourists, (and I do know what Spaniards want), want Scottish culture when they visit Scotland.

Paint the place up a bit, fill the place with flowers, thump people for dropping litter and have some fun showing off your country!

AND DO NOT FORGET, TOURISTS HATE BEING RIPPED OFF!

63

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 07:53:37
64
What have you got against the majority of Scots? How are Scots 'acting like mice' - because they don't share your view of what is best for their country?
I do wish you would show a little more respect for the Scottish people and their wishes instead of denigrating them and accusing them of cowardice...
64

somerferg,

perth, Oz 17/06/2008 07:56:18

Brilliant idea!!

Great comments as usual from Dougie Douglas in sunny Brisbane and from NZ exile - I know how you feel mate :)
65

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 08:00:00
Not being a Scot who glorifies in the more mythologised side of our history I struggle to see what is worth celebrating in the clan system - feudalism by any other name. I would suggest that a clan gathering runs contrary to the ideals and philosophy of the meritocratic enlightenment.
However, if Mr Salmond feels comfortable in peddling these myths and stereotypes then perhaps we can laugh along with the cliched tight-fisted jock stereotype too?
66

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:05:04

Grahamski ~67,

I AM NOT Denigrating the Scots, I am Scottish afterall.


I am pointing out the fact, we let the 'Politician's' walk all over us, even when their 'Policies' are Blatantly Wrong!

We keep voting them back into power, which at the end of day, will be the cause of death to our Nation.
67

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 08:09:52
Throughout the 1930s, the German government organised a series of massive celebrations of the history and culture of Germany, often centred around "Thingplatz" - settings which incorporated well known historical buildings or venues into the event.

At the first few such events there was no direct association with the party of government, merely the state, but as the 30s progressed, each successive event was more heavily branded with the party symbol to associate positive images of German history with the aspirations of nationalism.

In the painful process of self-examination immediately after the end of WW2, many Germans were unable to accept that these events were in any way negative. It took the passage of several decades before that nation could look back dispassionately and understand the important role such historical subversions played in the horror of the Nazi era.
68

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:11:01
This is all good, there is much to celebrate here both past and present. Its sadly typical that there would be so much negativity about these things, the irony is that this is one of the things that keeps Scotland down.
69

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 08:17:41
70
You are denigrating the Scottish people. I know it may seem unbelievable to you but the majority of Scots don't agree with you. To suggest that they let politicians walk all over them describes a Scotland I do not recognise. I don't believe the Scottish people are so weak they would let their political representatives walk all over them. What kind of people do you take the Scots for?
Weak simpletons?
70

Heather B,

Anstruther 17/06/2008 08:18:21
See when the planes come in with the diaspora next year, can the moaning, whining "Scots" on here please fill up the empty seats for the return? I've heard of the Scottish Cringe, but this incessant Scottish Whinge is incredibly annoying.

Something encourages anyone with a fondness for Scotland to pay good money and visit the country has to be A Good Thing. End of story.

Gie's peace!
71

Boy Wonder,

17/06/2008 08:23:03
People, people, people ... please remember that Chales Linskaill (see various posts) is a 94 year-old gentleman with senile dementia, who appears to be off his meds again. His only reason to live is to get his DYW pregnant with his his child. Anything is else is hust like candy floss to his poor addled mind. Be gentle with him. After all, you could be him someday!

As for the Year of Homecoming, it's up to all of us to welcome back ex-pats and the "Scots of the heart" (of whom I know many) to this celebration. There's nothing wrong in having a big ole knees-up for the whole country. The Yanks did it in '76, the French do it every year on Bastille Day. So why not? Get involved (regardless of politicians) and just enjoy proclaiming Scotland to a world that has derived so many benefits from our people, both in the Dispora and the stay-at-homes ... and the new Scots who are being borm from immigrant parents even now.


72

paulr,

edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:26:31
Seems rather pointless as successive governments and by that I mean westminster have over the years simply handed over any technological breakthroughs made in Scotland or England to the Yanks, then we have had to pay through the nose for technology invented here.
73

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 08:28:04
Thanks for your comment Somerferg - it seems like a no-brainer to me!

#72 - Duncan

What a strange prism through which you view the world (or Scotland at least).

Raising our national profile is something I would have thought all Scots, regardless of politcal persuasion, would whole-heartedly support. It seems I forgot about cringing unionists like your goodself. To try and draw some sort of parallel between a promotion being run by our government in 2009 and 30's Germany really displays your ridiculius prejudice against anything that is Pro-Scottish.

To try and make cheap political capital out of events in another country generations ago is almost laughable. Do you make posts like that when GB tries to promote Britishness???

You are one sick puppy.

74

A big boy dun it an ran away,

17/06/2008 08:30:54
Aye the heather an the tartan is an emblem o’ the past,
but pride in oor wee Nation is a banner we aw grasp
75

David Nisbet,

Kirkintilloch 17/06/2008 08:32:58
He's got two rather incompatible goals - celebrate Scottish culture, build Moslem schools. Will he make up his mind?
76

Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 08:33:35
72
I usually read your posts with interest Duncan.
Branding the SNP with the same iron as the Nazis is beneath you.
77

thinking,

Scotland 17/06/2008 08:35:04
I have nothing against a programme that attracts people to Scotland but I agree with #3. Why should it be funded by the taxpayer?
Why don't businesses fund it as they will be the ones to benefit?
There also seems to be a contradiction with present schemes to cut alcohol consumption. How will pushing whisky do that?
78

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 08:35:09
#77 I am merely pointing out the lessons of history.

I welcome and look forward to this event, but we should be very wary of the potential for the subversion of cultural nationalism into political nationalism.

There are already those in this country who believe that the only "true Scots" are those who vote for the "only Scottish party" and that everyone else should leave the country. They are a minority, for now.
79

Hermitage,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:36:51
Ha!

Back to 1822 and all that!

Bring on the MacTartan Tatties, the heather-coming-out -the-ears crowd, 'Flower (weeds) of Scotland' brigade, heuchter-teuchter lot, Harry Lauder/Andy Stewart/etc...........nothing quite like these to make the Scots long for their auld country.

Scottish Culture? What Scottish culture?

Cringe and whinge, maore likely.
80

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:38:36

Boy Wonder ~76,

Might of known it! you would be about, making them age remarks again, for the last time BW not 94! :)

Anyway how will one,,'Celebrate' afterall if the Politicians get their way, there will be NO WHISKY, NO DRINK, To purchase anywhere!,?

Next the 'TEA and COFFEE' will be Banned, because of the caffeine content!

NICE ONE SCOTLAND! How good is That,?
81

Royster,

17/06/2008 08:39:35
#79. Any attempt by any government to promote nationhood is a load of old cobblers. Whether this is the appalling David Blunkett and his Britishness test, the Olympic torch relay for China, the shrimp on the barbie for Australia or this new cack-handed Scot-fest by Salmond makes no difference. The public is being ripped off. The only consolation is that the politicians promoting them usually end up looking like fools.
82

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 08:40:26

#85, You are 'Spot-On'!
83

eric,

lothian 17/06/2008 08:41:10
Picture postcard eh..its also traditional in edinburgh to find scotlands largest community of crack addicts and folks with hiv etc,
84

donald,

glasgow 17/06/2008 08:43:24
Bendy crew objects to Scottish culture.
85

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 08:45:23
#84 - Duncan

It's all to easy to make claims like:-

"There are already those in this country who believe that the only "true Scots" are those who vote for the "only Scottish party" and that everyone else should leave the country"

Can you back that statement up?

Scottish nationalism is a civic movement but that dosen't stop you from trying to muddy the waters with ridiculous comparisons to 30s Germany.

You need to try and seperate what is going on in your head and what is happening in the real world. Your head is full of fear and loathing, most nats don't loathe the you back in the same way - they just think you are a bit of a muppet with a self confidence problem.

We don't all go around disliking anyone or anything that dosen't fit into our own world view.



86

Mikey,

17/06/2008 08:46:06
I've been living in Ireland for the past few years but am coming home within the next three months to work at a contract for substantially less money than I'm reciving at the moment. Why am I doing it? I'm doing it because I'm genuinely excited by the way my country is going! I'm doing it because Scotland is starting to get off it's knees and this is totally to do with a government that outs Scotland first!

Even Ireland has people like Royster and High and Mighty! People who cannot do anything but moan about how better off they'd be under English rule. They are the Conor Cruise O'Brain-ites who, every time the Commonwealth Games come around, float the idea of rejoining the commonwealth. The Irish, secure in their nationality, just smile and write them off as eccentrics!

Just what are the naysayers afraid of? Perhaps they could let us know their fears and we would be able to understand them?

Personally, I'm looking forward to coming home and getting involved with creating a REAL country for REAL people!
87

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 08:48:13
#82 Indeed it would be. Happily I did no such thing.

Perhaps others have not seen, or are not concerned by, the stirrings of extremism which are swirling around the base of the SNP's support. I have seen it, and I am concerned.

I am absolutely clear that the mainstream SNP is not embracing these people, and represents a modern, pluralistic outlook. But the politics of nationalism are dangerous. That is the entirety of my point. Playing with nationalist sentiment, particularly at a time of economic troubles, is a dangerous, unpredictable pastime.
88

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 17/06/2008 08:48:26
#2 and more - Charles Linskaill makes some fair points to reflect upon. I'm suspicious this is another tub thumping excercise designed to suit the SNP propaganda machine rather than serve the exacting needs of the indigenous Scottish people where our nations record on health etc is abysmall and needs some radical overhaul to change the "culture" of pies, chips, fags and booze.

Radical solutions mean introducing things like new lifestyle classes in primary schools in association with fitness regimes suited to individual children be they athletic or computer geeks. Simply applying more "patch up solutions" with free prescriptions for drugs etc ain't the way to go about it at present as the illnesses are often self inflicted due to bad habits. New habit forming measures are required and the only person during the last election campaign a year ago who sought to get this type of thing discussed on telly was Nicol Stephen. And thats the fact of the matter.
89

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 08:50:07
91
'We don't all go around disliking anyone or anything that dosen't fit into our own world view.'
Actually, Dougie the nationalists on here regularly accuse anybody who doesn't share their minority views as cowards, traitors, Quislings and corrupt.
Scottish nationalism is a malignant infantile political movement whose ultimate goals represent about a quarter of Scots.
To try and tack on the word 'civic' won't wash, the same dangers inherent in nationalism are present within Scottish nationalism.
90

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 08:53:15
#91 Absolutely I can back that statement up. The quotations are from comments posted on this very site by SNP supporters during last year's election campaign.

I repeat, I am not suggesting that such people are representative of the mainstream SNP. I am saying that they exist, and that history tells us that the mainstreaming of such views can happen with surprising rapidity and momentum.
91

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:06:12
#97 I understand your point. The invasion of Iraq was an unforgivable act, and recent anti-terrorism legislation, 42 day detention and the ID database plan are all dangerous and wrong-headed moves from a seemingly incompetent administration.

(As for "constant attacks on the most vulnerable" and "corruption and greed", I think these are simply smears rather than grounded accusations, and that in fact the most vulnerable people in our society are far better off today than they were when Labour came to power.)

But none of these things has anything whatsoever to do with the subversion of cultural nationalism, which was the issue I was raising with the regard to the SNP.
92

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 09:09:14

Liberal for life ~94,

At least I opened up this column to one of, arousal and the,..

'Passion for Scotland'

If I had not started this discussion, we would of only had a few,..

'Goody Two-Shoes' comments.
93

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 17/06/2008 09:15:32
Alex Salmond's invitation to people with "blood links" exposes the ancient, primitive atavism that lies beneath all nationalisms - whether Scottish, German, English or South African. The idea that ' we are of one blood'is at the very root of nationalism - and the corresponding negative is - the rest of humanity is not 'of our blood'.

The depth of the racist, xenophobic bigotry that informs much of the above postings: the innate hatred of anyone who happens to be born in England - reveals the utter primitiveness of this 'appeal to the blood' - which was at the very heart of Nazi racism. Hitler had to drive a wedge between the 'true'Gemans and those 'others' who lived among them - or were their neigbours the Jews, Czechs, Poles, Gypsies - all were 'polluters' of the true 'German blood'. After ten years of racist propaganda against these 'others' it was then easy to invade the Sudetenland to 'rescue' the German Sudetens from their opporessors. The Aschluss with Austria - was an invasion to unite ' people of the blood'; the invasion and slaughter of the Poles, the Czechs and then the Russians - causing 60 million deaths - was to rid the world of the 'unternmenschen' - the Slavic peoples who were 'meant for slavery'.

Of course, Alex Salmond is not a Nazi - far from it - but the underlying philosphy of nationalism springs from the same root as 'National Socialism': Scots are 'special'' Scots are superior to their neighbours - the hated English; all of Scotland's problems would be solved if we escaped from under the yoke of the hated English; 'they' have stolen our money, 'our oil' ; give us back our guns and our ancient warrior blood will triumph over those who have robbed us of our birthright! Put out more flags, search the country's cellars for the lost 'Stone of Destiny' - the magic talisman handed down from our blood ancestors. . do all these things and the 'nation' will be resurrected to its ancient glories; the clans will repopulate the Highlands, the weathe
94

Boy Wonder,

17/06/2008 09:15:46
Back to your care-home bed for your meds, Chuckles. You know you're not allowed to hog the computer-time!
95

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 17/06/2008 09:16:03
Put out more flags, search the country's cellars for the lost 'Stone of Destiny' - the magic talisman handed down from our blood ancestors. . do all these things and the 'nation' will be resurrected to its ancient glories; the clans will repopulate the Highlands, the weather will improve, the 200,000 people on methadone will all be healed; the a;coho; and violence culture will melt away; the sectarian hatred of all things Protestant or Catholic will be dissolved in the greater 'Scots Nation'; the worst health record in Europe will disappear and the 2000 knife stabbings a year in Glasgow will be a mere memory. All will be well - the lilt of the pipes will skirl through the Scotch mist in the streets of 'Brigadoon'.
96

danbob,

17/06/2008 09:18:07
98# I agree with what you say Duncan. I always supported an independent Scotland, but some of the comments that get posted on here would not be out of place on the BNP website. It makes for very uncomfortable reading at times, and it begs the question just what percentage of the SNPs support has these views. The whole dream of an independent Scotland will self implode if these idiots are not challenged.
97

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 09:18:18
Royster

Governments the world over promote their own identity and by extension their interests and commerce.

It is highly irregular that Scotland does very little of this, or would you agree with Duncan that 'another shrimp on the barbie' (a tourism promotion) is equivalent to a jackboot parade (or national socialism 'promotion')?, eh?

This promotion, like most, are aimed at producing economic benefits. The government pays up front then the country reaps the benefits of more tourism and an expanded consciousness of Scotland. When you promote a country it is usually done in a positive light which may also have a postive effect on national confidence as well as the primary economic benefits.

You were absolutely correct critising the Olympics in an earlier post - a 10 billion pound vanity exercise but this is a slightly different proposition.

Scotland is one of the most powerful and recognisible nationalities or 'brands' out there despite the best efforts of some (including our own) to suppress it.

We need more of this stuff, but if it has a positive effect on national (Scottish)self-confidence you unionists are going to have a problem with it - aren't you?
98

,

17/06/2008 09:21:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
99

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 09:22:24
Graham @ #95

I take you find the ever present British nationalism equally as un-palatable?

To represent Scottish nationalism as 'infantile' does show that you have a different sense of Scottishness than your average 'nat'. You promote yourself as less Scottish, when this is pointed out you start banging about jackboots.

What a banana.
100

brownlie,

17/06/2008 09:27:05
95 Grahamski

"..the same dangers inherent in nationalism are present within Scottish nationalism" - but, presumably, not within British nationalism as propogated by Gordon Brown?
101

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 09:29:42
Duncan

You are having a laugh!

I was looking for something a bit more concrete than 'nasty nats posted it last year'

Duncan, you seem level-headed enough sometimes (when posting about things completely un-related to scotish politics). Do you think it is natural to have a mild antipathy towards your own country as displayed by some of your fellow unionists?
102

Dr Michael John Parkinson,

Tewkesbury 17/06/2008 09:31:38
This all sounds a great idea so long as you take back Brown,Darling,Alexander etc...
103

Alan Reid,

NZ 17/06/2008 09:31:44
101 Tweedmouth, even by your standards that's cr a p. Have you ever looked at the SNP web site? No, I did'nt think so!

Don't try and tar SNP supporters with your English BNP hoons, there's a world of a difference.
104

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:32:47
#105 There are subtleties here which you seem to be running together but which perhaps are better exposed to see that we actually share common ground.

Of course events like these have economic benefits. I am entirely comfortable with cultural nationalism, and it has been practised by successive administrations in Scotland for decades. There is a strong tourism sector in Scotland and it is a good brand which will benefit from this sort of exposure.

And the benefits for "national self-confidence" as you so carefully put it, are also positive, though I think there is a significant conflict between what will bring in the US, Canadian and Australian dollars - Brigadoon, tartan and shortbread - and what will bolster the Scottish people - a growth economy, and a future.

My issue is with none of this. It is with the subversion of cultural nationalism to political ends. Tweedmouth is absolutely right about the dangerous language of "blood ties". The signs of xenophobic nationalism under the surface are all around. That is what concerns me.
105

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 09:34:35
107
care to eplain this?
To represent Scottish nationalism as 'infantile' does show that you have a different sense of Scottishness than your average 'nat'. You promote yourself as less Scottish, when this is pointed out you start banging about jackboots.
106

The Strategist,

17/06/2008 09:37:14
The amount of oil we recover from the N Sea depends entirely on how much money we're prepared to spend on it which in turn is dependendent on what rate of return can be achieved on the capital deployed.

Most sensible observers suggest that in reality there is about 8-9bn bbl that is still economically recoverable.
107

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 09:37:39
108
Good to see you've abondoned your ludicrous uber-unionist persona, it was wearing a bit thin!
108

danbob,

17/06/2008 09:38:32
111# If you are really posting from NZ is it not past your bedtime? Run along now and mummy is waiting to tuck you in for the night.
109

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 09:39:53
72/112 Duncan - re your belief that the "year of Homecoming" is some Nazi propaganda tool vs a bid to raise Scotland's profile and boost tourism, your post has indeed made me wonder what exactly the PREVIOUS Scottish exceutive were thinking when they conceived this event?

Viewed together with Brown's "British jobs for British workers" and "Union flag in every garden" speeches, and examining UK cooperation with rendition/ torture, Labour's 42 day detention, ID and DNA database plans, you may well have hiit upon an authoritarian, proto-fascist and unpleasant jingoism at the core of Labour. Well done.
110

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:40:00
#109 What a strange response. What "more concrete" evidence were you looking for? I simply said that a small number of SNP supporters expressed such views, and told you where and when.

You pose an interesting question. In fact I do think it is a British trait to be self-deprecating. Humility is greatly valued in our society - far more greatly than in post-colonial white societies like in Australasia or north America. I don't consider this a particularly bad thing, though it can make interactions more challenging.
111

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 09:40:07
Duncan_

'extremests' lie at the fringes of all political movements my friend. Please don't try to single out the nationalist community as somehow unique in this regard. Extreme Unionism is equally dangerous and is also a case of 'bad nationalism', just as much as the fringe 'anti-english' brigade in the nationalist outlands.

I was present at the Orange Order parade in Princes Street, Edinburgh before the 2007 election which was organised in order to 'celebrate and defend the union' and it was sickening. The fringe ranks (and not just the fringe imo) die-hard Rangers-supporting labour/tory traditionalists are full of this sort of narrow minded tosh and stiff upper lip 'I'll die British' mentality.

Civic nationalism is not a bad thing, or do you view Gandhi as 'evil'? He supported Indian independence. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin? The other Founding Fathers?
Yes Civil nationalism can have a nasty fringe element, but so do the finges of all political persuasions.



112

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 09:41:27
112. Given that Labour conceived the year of homecoming Duncam can you enlighten me further on your comment "My issue is with none of this. It is with the subversion of cultural nationalism to political ends." - do you think Jack McConnell planned to misuse this event as cover for 42 day detention or similar?
113

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:42:45
#117 Silly boy. I have been at pains to make my point clear, and your distorted summary of it is incorrect in every respect. In particular, I have at no point said that I believe this proposed event is a Nazi propaganda tool. Stop being a wind-up merchant, there's a dear.
114

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 09:45:05
#112

The brigadoon and tartan are an image/view of Scotland about 30-40 years old. People abroad don't view us in such a kitsch filled framework. Perhaps it better suits your politics to belittle us with such a 'small' view.

Regardless, anything that boosts Scottish tourism will have the knock-on economic benefit we all seek.

'Blood ties'!!! - seems like a simple description of those that have Scottish Blood as distinct from 'affinity Scots'. It's not rampant xenophobia to appeal to your own constituency is it?

#113
You belittle Scottish self expression and confidence and you are Scottish yourself - you are less Scottish than others. Period.
115

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:45:26
#119 You are quite right. But the fact that all political movements have unpleasant fringes is not a reason to ignore them.
116

TCCLRC,

Windsor, CT 17/06/2008 09:46:35
In 1967 I stayed in Hawick, visiting "Uncle" Jim Clark, my father's first cousin. In August my wife and I are traveling back for the Edinburgh Festival and to see how the "old sod" has changed over the years. Having Scottish heritage on both my dad's (Clark and Allen) and my mom's (Boyd) sides, my roots go deeply into the heather. I am really looking forward to our visit.
117

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 09:47:01
121. Duncan, odd that you devoted 3 parapgraphs at post 72 to anlyse Nazi events in the context of this article then, wasn't it? One might think it was just pathetic and contemptible posturing.....did the Nazi's not also start off by detaining people with charge, insisting on ID cards and then illegally invading other countries?
118

brownlie,

17/06/2008 09:48:41
115 Grahamski

Sad to see you are retaining your uber-unionist persona with increasingly thin arguments which make no useful contribution to our glorious unionist cause.

You would serve our glorious unionist cause better if you put forward cogent arguments rather than attempting to denigrate anyone with a contrary opinion.

119

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 09:51:42
122
You said at 91:
'We don't all go around disliking anyone or anything that dosen't fit into our own world view.'
By the time you get to post 122 you say this:
'you are less Scottish than others. Period.'
Rather contradictory don't you think?
120

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 09:51:44
126. I hadn't actually noticed a "persona" as you put it, about Grahamski's posts. They tend to lack any personality other than stale, negative knee-jerks obviously the result of despair and panic at Labour's continued meltdown.
121

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 09:51:57
#118

Fair enough, it is a trait shared with others in the UK to some degree. However, we just cannot afford to be as self depreciating as others.

'concrete evidence' - I wan't you to post something concrete that shows your assertion is main stream thought in the SNP and not the ramblings of a few 1% ers months ago that were probably being antagonised by you make jackboot references.

122

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 09:53:23
126
Yikes, spoke too soon.
Brownlie-borg return to SNP HQ for re-programming. Repeat, return to SNP HQ. You are faulty, you have failed to sneak Iraq into the debate about Kailyard v Reality.
123

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:54:41
#125 It is you who is posturing, dear. I have made my point entirely clear, and you are simply desperate to simplify and misrepresent it, as usual.

You know that I agree with you on the danger of detention without charge, the database state and illegal wars. But pointing out the wrongs perpetrated by the present UK government does not deflect any of the points I am making about the subject of this article.
124

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 09:55:16
#127

Not at all contradictory.

You are less Scottish than others Grahamski, that's not up for debate, but that dosen't mean I dislike you. You are more of a historical curiosity than anything else.
125

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 09:57:09
#129 Another weird response. I explicitly said that this *wasn't* mainstream thought in the SNP. Perhaps you should re-read.
126

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 09:58:25
132
And there's the rub: if a Scot doesn't agree with the nats line then he is less Scottish or dare I say an untermensch perhaps?
Dangerous road you're travelling there, Dougie-boy!
127

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 10:01:05
131. OK then sweetie. It is just a shame that Unionists are now so insecure of their crumbling position that they now fear any expression or celebration of Scottish culture......I thought Unionists were proud to be Scottish, yet their was a barage of criticism of the government raising the profile of St Andrew's day last year, and now the year of homecoming, originated by the last executive, is being attacked as "Political"...
128

Senga Jean,

Scotland...half full? 17/06/2008 10:02:42
Gosh,bless 'em. The Unionists are fair tearing into anything which might give a little pride back into Scotland. The self loathing rogues are fair gobbling up their own entrails. Why does Scotland,almost alone in the planet,have these maudlin mopers. I hope Salmond and all the positive people in Scotland gie this idea laldie. Wonderful idea!
129

brownlie,

17/06/2008 10:03:01
130 Grahamski

Happy to oblige. In referring to the nats as "a malignant" political movement you must imagine that they have plans to invade a foreign country, murder thousands of its inhabitants, make over 5 million exiles homeless and set conditions for the growth of terrorism and tragedy without end.

Surely no British party would be as malignant as that?
130

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 10:04:23
137. Maybe Labour will propose a "year of homecoming" for the people they helped ship off to Guantanamo and the millions of Iraqi refugees?
131

Alan Reid,

NZ 17/06/2008 10:06:28
116 danbob, 9pm mate, so plenty of time to get the hootsman news. And glad to see the SNP are leading the country very very very well!

122 Dougie Douglas,Well said, also I quite like Tartan and shortbread.


And for something completely different, again!
Did not our very own AM say that this guy is a real patriot?
And did this guy say that Scotland would “be stuffed without England” then again if I want opinion of a baggage handler I’ll ask for it.
Glasgow Airport terror attack hero John Smeaton set to quit Scotland for new life in USA

Jun 17 2008
AIRPORT hero John Smeaton is quitting Scotland to live in New York with his American girlfriend.
The former baggage handler plans to become an after dinner speaker and live with girlfriend Christy MacPhedran, 31.
Smeato, 32, who helped tackle suicide bombers at Glasgow airport last summer, met Christy at an awards bash in September.
He said: "You have to grab your opportunities in life and so I have decided to make the move.
"I'm bewildered by how it all turned out. There is nobody more reluctant to be a hero than me but I have to make the most of the situation."
Smeato, who lives with his parents in Erskine, Renfrewshire, added: "I 'm going out to America initially for a couple of months and I am going to just take it from there."
132

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 10:07:04
Graham - you miss the subtleties here.

You deride aspects of Scottishness and are less than enthusiastic about promoting the country. The fact that the SNP are the only party actively promoting these things mearly puts trhe spotlight on the others - they are less Scottish than the SNP, and you as one of there supporters are therefore less Scottish.

You not supporting the SNP is not the issue - you not supporting Scotland is, even Duncan, complete noiser that he is, seems to want whats best for the country.
133

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 17/06/2008 10:09:06
Sorry somehow I posted this before it was finished

CBC=London Broadcasting Corporation

LBC= English Broadcasting Corporation
BBC=EBC
134

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 17/06/2008 10:12:19
Thanks Alan.

And may I wish Smeato the very best of British in his new endeavour. The shy wee pup that he is.

I look forward to some of his classic speeches:-

'awright an nat no'
....
'we are the peepul, n,nat no'

etc etc etc
135

scunnin,

Germany 17/06/2008 10:15:57
So have lots of Americans who say they are 1/6th Scottish as their Grand grand grand father was Scottish ... I mean come on ... they are not scottish and never will be! sorry ... welcome tourists but the rest of the world, less yanks please :)
136

Senga Jean,

17/06/2008 10:15:58
Scotland IS a beautiful country. Its people? Some hate themselves and their granny and spew Unionist hate night and day. Scotland IS a beautiful country.
137

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 17/06/2008 10:19:57
SI give up with this bloody system

I lost my opriginal post befor finishing it, though it was sent but seems to be lost in the ethers and so the finishing post as abve is quite meaningless.

I am off to take a cold batch and hot cup of tea.

I resolve to type in MS Wod and cut and paste; easier really
138

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 10:25:42
140
'You deride aspects of Scottishness' I do no such thing
'and are less than enthusiastic about promoting the country.' I am very enthusiastic about promoting my country. I'm less enthusiastic about promoting stereotypes and myths.
Your continued assumption that somehow the SNP are 'more Scottish' than their opponents is quite simply baffling.
139

scunnin,

Germany 17/06/2008 10:26:30
#148 Wardog,Buckie

You know if they had implemented it in 2000 it would have been one heck of a brain storm for them.

To increase tourism doesnt need connections in the country in some situation. I live overseas and see adverts for Ireland, Thailand, China, but I havent seen any for Scotland. Maybe investing into a great advert and put it on tv in certain countries. We have some beautiful places to visit which is really worth visiting and seeing.

A former colleague just came back from Scotland and loved it!! Thats the kind of adverts we need ..
140

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 17/06/2008 10:26:32
THERE'S NO GODS - AND DAMN FEW HEROES (Brian McNeill)
Chorus:
'Cause there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o' the leal
And it's time now to sweep the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real

I was listening to the news the other day
I heard a fat politician who had the cheek to say
He was proud to be Scottish, by the way
With the glories of our past to remember
Here's tae us, wha's like us, listen to the cry
No surrender to the truth, and here's the reason why
The pride and the glory's just another bloody lie
They use to keep us all in line

Chorus

So to hell with the heather and the glen
They cleared us off once, and they'll do it all again
'Cause they still prefer sheep to thinking men
Ah but men that think like sheep are even better
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you
Just mind you pay your rent to the factor when it's due
And mind your bloody manners when you pay

Chorus:

And tell me, will we never hear the end
Of poor bloody Charlie and Culloden yet again
Though he ran like a rabbit doon the glen
Leaving better folk than him to be butchered
Or are you sitting in your council house, thinking o' your clan
Waiting for the Jacobites to come and free the land
Try going doon the broo wi' a claymore in your hand
And count all the princes in the queue

Chorus

So don't talk to me of Scotland the Brave
'Cause if we don't fight soon there'll be nothing left to save
Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave
While you wait for the Tartan Messiah
He'll lead us to the Promised Land wi' laughter in his eye
We'll all live off the oil and the whisky, by and by
Free heavy beer, pie suppers in the sky
Will we never hae the sense to learn

Final chorus:
Ah, there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o' the le
141

jdships,

17/06/2008 10:37:00
38 Edinburgh Internet Festival

Agree with a lot of what you write .
However as unpaid volunteer in the tourist "trade" my problem with the "Homecoming" it is in grave danger of being taken over by "wanabees" who are looking for self gratification - M.B.E's even !!
Very few if any of the hundreds of people who work behind the scenes beause we enjoy it will ever get a mention or even a thankyou.

140
"The fact that the SNP are the only party actively promoting these things mearly puts trhe spotlight on the others "


Need to read a few more newspaper articles methinks !
Much as it hurts me to say it this was the "brain child" ( can that be correct ?) of Jack McConnel and Labour





142

,

17/06/2008 10:41:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
143

,

17/06/2008 10:46:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
144

LyonHearts,

le teil 17/06/2008 10:46:34
Nothing wrong with promoting the old homeland as long as;

1)It doesn't cost the taxpayer a fortune!

2) It isn't all about tartan and shortbread

3)and it will bring investment into the country!

Vive l'Ecosse
145

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 10:53:48
158
Or more accurately my politcal view reflects the majority of my fellow Scots. It's a pity you have such a low opinion of them.
146

,

17/06/2008 11:03:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
147

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 11:10:56
163
85% of Scots support independence? Are you sure?
148

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 11:11:26
164. I detest the promotion of the UK - it is purely political.
149

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 11:11:31
#162 'A voice from Scotland':

"85% now support independence according to the ST poll."

Could you provide me with a link to the poll you are refering to? I would love to see it. Thanks.
150

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 11:15:23
164
No, Wardog the idea that Scotland is best served within the UK is a political belief.
I know it's difficult for the more feral amongst the nationalist supporters to understand that my politics aren't shaped solely by the constitutional arrangements of my country.
There are other issues although going by the obsession of some nationalists you would be forgiven for thinking it's the only dogma in town...
151

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/06/2008 11:20:03
-- It doesn't cost the taxpayer a fortune

The UK taxpayer is fleeced for whatever money he can be forced to pay. Why? Because a private company called the bank of england has the monopoly on issuing money to the government. They like lending to the UK state because the interest will be annually payed by a non-endangered species called the taxpayer. These monies can be entirely wasted or abstracted - it makes no difference to the Bank.

As it's easier to waste money than spend it prudently on productive work, this may even be encouraged. "We don't have a problem with loadsamoney" - Peter Mandelson.

Cameron is the new banker's pet poodle, so full steam ahead aboard the Titanic!
152

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 11:25:23
#163 'A voice from free Scotland'

"My opinion of my fellow Scots has never been higher, as 85% now support independence according to the ST poll."

Have you managed to find a link to this supposed poll that you claim shows that 85% of Scots support independence?

The latest polls I have seen, from April 2008, put support for independence at 41%, I find it very hard to believe that this support has more than doubled in 2 months, but perhaps if you provide the link you can prove me wrong?

Or maybe you could apologise for misrepresenting the imaginary polls in your head as being fact?
153

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 11:28:01
170
Wardog, It doesn't occur to you that the free expression of nationhood might be a considered decision to stay within the UK?
As regards the SNP's discredited policies you will not be surprised to hear that I do not support them.
154

A big boy dun it an ran away,

17/06/2008 11:28:34
Thare’s ayeweys yin whae taks offence fae oor skirlin an wur reelin,
but gimme wan an a’ll shaw yi mair that arnae dreich tae leevin
155

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 11:39:56
174
Do you deny the right of the Scottish people to be part of the UK if that is what they want?
The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of us Scots would prefer to stay in the UK.
Surely you can respect that?
156

jdships,

17/06/2008 11:49:38
159 LyonHearts,le teil

More than a tadge of common sense in your post !
Thank you !
157

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 11:59:06
I like the sound of 'The Gathering' - the largest clan gathering ever organised - reminds me of 'highlander' - a damn fine film!

(Sean connery accent): '... struggling to reach the Time of the Gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the last - no one has ever known we were among you... until now.'

As a citizen of Edinburgh I will welcome this event. My GF's sirname is Cameron, so I will try to gain favour with the Chief of Clan Cameron by dint of my association!

Personally, I have always been a fan of the border clans ie the borde reivers - they were just as mad as their highland counterparts, and although they didnt share the tartan and kitls of the highland way of life, they operated in a clan system in many other respects.

It is still perfectly acceptable to refer to the lowland families as 'clans' as this term was in common use by the Scots themselves. A proclmation from the Scottish Parliament of James VI in the 16th century calls on 'all the chiefs of the clannis of the heighlands and the borders' and also indludes a roll of clans of the borders including Jardine, Maxwell, Turnbulls etc.

a 17th century statement of the Lord Advocate also uses the terms 'family and 'clan' interchangibly.

Obvsiously come the late 18th and 19th century when the highland kilts and tartans became trendy and the new clan tartan afficiation took of then the lowland clans were keen to get tartans of their own and also took up the kilt as symbol of their idenity - the clan tartans are symbols of identity, regardless of the fact that kilts and tarants were only used by highlanders prior to 19th century. What better shorthand to use to exptress national identity than to use the distinctive garb of the legendary highlander - the uber-men of Scotland! (ok apart from the border reivers woh coudl give thme a run for their money)
158

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:02:57
AYRSHIRESCOT. And most UK supporters detest the arrogance of people like you,without the UK,especially during both world wars we would now be speaking German,(not that all Germans were bad) you and most other nats seem to have been brough up to believe that in some way the UK owes scotland something,NEWS FLASH,WE DON'T.
159

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 12:06:07
Wardog
'they will at last get the democratic opporutnity to decide on the future of their nation.'
In case you hadn't noticed, the Scots have had democracy for quite some time now.
160

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 12:06:49
#180 Erm, Scotland is *part* of the UK. How could the UK owe Scotland something?
161

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:08:56
183. America,don't make me laugh,we had the war almost won,if it hadn't been for pearl harbour the u.s would never have got involved!
162

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 12:09:04
#182 Ah, you don't understand. Democratic votes which go *against* the SNP are undemocratic by definition. The only *true* democracy is one in which everyone votes for the SNP.
163

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 12:09:32
#187 Oh dear God.
164

John F.,

Brazil 17/06/2008 12:12:32
I´ll be anticipating the Year of Homecoming and going back to Scotland next month for the first time in 16 years. I´ll be bringing my teenage daughter who, although born in Switzerland and brought up in Brazil, is proud of Scotland and the achievements of her sons and daughters. Scotland should make greater efforts to link up with exiles and descendants. This could be done not just culturally but politically in two ways - start issuing Scottish passports (this could be done even within the current framework of the UK as Jersey does) and by granting voting rights to expatriates to vote in Scotland. The Italian parliament, for example, has members who represent the substantial Italian population and descendants in Brazil and Argentina. I am looking forward to returning but am dreading the moemnt when I see the Union flag flying above Edinburgh Castle. I hope that particular object will be replaced shortly by the Saltire. The moaners and whingers on this site who are constantly decrying Scotland´s aspirations to regain her sovereignity are a disgrace to their country. Viva Escócia! Viva o Brasil!Scotland forever!
165

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:12:38
184. you ungrateful little sh-t, all those guys that died and are still dying,so you can spout your sh-te,you aren't fit to lick their boots.
166

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 12:12:39
189
Let's see if a majority of the parliament votes to have a referendum. At the moment the majority reject such a notion.
167

CRBAbdn,

Aberdeen 17/06/2008 12:14:35
I read this article and thought "finally, something we can all agree on". How wrong can a person be? I honestly can't believe that anyone who actually cares about Scotland can put a negative spin on this. What's the alternative? We don't promote Scotland and our achievements and then blame the SNP when visitor numbers drop?

Seriously, if you can't see any positive in this, maybe it's time to give up and go elsewhere. Scotland can live without your constant negativity. Go on, leave, go and live somewhere that doesn’t give you the “cringe”.
168

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:15:12
191. Less the old! we paid our war debt to the USA,WHEN WE GAVE THEM THE JET ENGINE,
169

MacRae_Warrior,

17/06/2008 12:15:52
Forget a referendum, let's just rise up and take what is ours!
170

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:17:52
198. well meths, as someone that is so proud of scutterland that you now live in spain,you would know all about "make-believe"!
171

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:18:42
202. Try it,PLEASE!
172

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 12:19:36
201
And you think Wendy will be in a position to decide in two years time? Are you mad?
173

Arfur,

17/06/2008 12:20:51
Charlie,Royster and HM - you really a bunch of sad losers.

This is great news but still you moan your garbage.

You may have been born in Scotland but are certainly not Scottish.
174

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:21:15
201. LOL, JEEZ, thanks to the money from westminster!
175

Fed Up with Scum,

17/06/2008 12:22:01
Here's a better idea, why don't you spend the money on removing those knife carrying morons in Glasgow first. Then it might be a good place to go to.

I would'nt go there if you paid me and I live in Scotland.

Sort it out !
176

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 12:24:22
Good afternoon Meths. I hope you're getting the weather.
177

MacRae_Warrior,

17/06/2008 12:25:11
#40

Of course I know this. However, anyone from the British Isles during Roman times was called a British person, or 'Britannicus' I was referring to if the Roman Empire existed today. They more than likely would have called the inhabtants of the British Isles the British, or 'Britannici'. If they wanted to get more specific, referencing the people of Scotland, they could use the word 'Caledonii', or Caledonians.
178

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:26:03
Look guys, all scotlands money comes from westminster,so stop making lists of what the snp does and does not do,without the westminster hand out the snp could do bu--er all!
179

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 12:28:52
213
Iain Gray will be there or thereabouts I would think...
180

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 12:29:54
There's nothing like the ordered sound of jack-booted highlanders marching out of the mist to kill the queen, and take over the country.

Lead on McDuff!



181

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:30:06
210. If the poor got off their fat ar--s and did some work,instead of expecting hand outs from the state,maybe the gap wouldn't be so wide!
182

MacRae_Warrior,

17/06/2008 12:31:33
Nowadays they would have called the English the 'Anglici', or Angles, I believe.
183

Arfur,

17/06/2008 12:31:40
209 Mount fatty kimba - you mean the share of North sea oil money that westminster gives back to us?
184

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:33:37
216. AND! that does not change the fact that scotland gets ALL it's money from Westminster!
185

Brianwci,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 12:34:27
My God we never had this problem when Jack Mcconnel and the Lib/Lab team were in charge.

These days it's Alex Salmond this, Alex Salmond that, Scotland's getting this, Scotland's getting that.

Is it fair to the opposition to be operating at a pace they are clearly not used to?

Perhaps if we give him Independence he might just slow down enough to let the opposition catch its breath?
186

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 17/06/2008 12:35:16
Charles Linskaill

Good morning to you, sir, and all those dear to you.

After your initial outbursts and tirades, perhaps it is time now to CALM DOWN and appreciate why you are proud to be Scots and the heritage that you have inherited.

Politicians are a necessary (UN-necessary) evil and will always be with us. To fulminate against them and raise your blood pressure and ruin your day is to cave into their abysmal tactics.

The comments about you by Boy Wonder are amusing and can anyone think that he is being truthful? It is an entire fiction what he has to say about you and are you just "netfriends" or has he centred on you as a "special cause"?

The glass in your case could be half-full rather than half-empty if you, perhaps, viewed your politicians as impediments to your personal happiness and not worth the time to fulminate against them because they are arrogant, simplistic, and attention-grabbing shysters.

Politicians are a world-wide plague - have been for centuries and will continue to be so.

To ignore them most of the time and involve yourself with your families and hobbies and pasttimes will preserve your sense of equilibrium.

Many of your comments have credence but you must GET OVER IT from time to time.

Have a great rest of the day.
187

AJ Fife,

17/06/2008 12:35:48
A great idea from a great leader.

Never before has Scotland's future looked so bright.
188

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:36:30
222. Whatever,it still comes from WESTMINSTER! OH AND BY THE WAT,STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES BUT NAME CALLING IS THE ART OF A BULLY!
189

Arfur,

17/06/2008 12:38:55
215 Mount Kimba - "Look guys, all scotlands money comes from westminster" No Thicko - Westminsters money comes from Scotland.
190

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:38:58
228.
A great idea from a great leader.Who would that be then!
191

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 12:40:49
228
I'm sure Mr McConnell will be delighted to hear that you consider him a great leader.
192

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:42:01
231.NO moranic tw-t, with 50 million English,and Londons GDP bigger than the whole of scotlands, westminsters money comes fron ENGLAND!
193

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:44:19
234.HOW ABOUT THE TAXES ENGLAND PAYS,50 MILLION TO 5 MILLION,DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!
194

Fed Up with Scum,

17/06/2008 12:48:35
well you might all be proud to be Scots - but you're not proud enough to actually bother to live in Scotland.

Maybe you should try and figure out why so many Scottish have buggered off abroad in the first place, hmmm - now there's a thought !

Scotland IS one of the most beautiful countries in the world but unfortunately it appears to have been overun with complete idiots lately (including all the politicians).



195

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:48:42
230. YEP, and what dream was that in! 50 million English compared to 5 million scots, christ, you really are delusional!
196

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:50:04
244. My point exactly!
197

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:52:44
247. Meths, YOU'LL NEVER GET INDEPENDENCE, when will you nats realise it's a non starter!
198

Arfur,

17/06/2008 12:53:32
237 - again you get even the basics wrong.

Here it is in simple terms

If Scottish oil brings in £500 million, Scotland recieves back £100 million to spend. Taxes only make up a small %age of what England and Scotland spend.

Scotland subsides your country.
199

KeithD,

Fife 17/06/2008 12:57:50
Highland Mighty.....You are a complete idiot,you are the type of person that keeps Scotland from moving forward.A unionist tw@t and utter imbocile.Go and find another country where you can spout off your drivel and let the true Scots make this country a great one.Complete A...hole!!!
200

kimba,

17/06/2008 12:59:44
250. Christ, you like your links, out of 50 million English, about 40 million are in employment,as of such the tax paid to the treasury is greater in England!
201

Saoghal Beag,

17/06/2008 13:00:18
meths, i think her degree was in home economics and domestic hygine, so it possibly did cover economics, to a level....
202

Saoghal Beag,

17/06/2008 13:01:25
251 kimba, ian't it heartening that you love us all so much you don't want rid of us, bless
203

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 13:05:46
259
I'm not usually one for correcting spelling mistakes, but..
mis-spelling imbecile, priceless.
204

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:07:47
255. NO, but i am a English democrat member,and proud of it! it's amazing, how the scottish nats are full of bile, but loved the interview with Andy Murray on the "ONE SHOW" last night,christ,he even said he was PROUD to be BRITISH number one!
205

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 13:09:40
#259 KeithD:

"Go and find another country where you can spout off your drivel and let the true Scots make this country a great one."

Dangerously close to the racism that the BNP advocate.

What do you define as a 'true Scot'? Only someone who votes for the SNP? Are 66% of those who voted in the 2007 election not 'true Scots' then?

Or do you believe 'true Scots' are only those who vote for the SNP and are born in Scotland, and have 'pure' Scottish blood?

Maybe you are hoping that if Scotland becomes independent only 'true Scots' will be allowed to remain and all other nationalities and races who currently live here will have to 'go and find another country'?
206

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:16:07
267. Employment rate in England was 74.9% as of april 2008,NOT FAR OFF!
207

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:19:18
271. BUT HE'S SCOTLANDS OWN, as for the EDP, how long did it take salmond and co to get elected!
208

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:23:31
271. Yep, thank god for the sensible people in Ireland!
209

Incandescent with Rage!!!,

17/06/2008 13:24:16
#33

I agree with you. When attempting to travel the good ole US of A, east to west, back in the early 80's, via route 66, at nearly every stop people I conversed with had roots back in the old country quoting just about every clan name and their connection with them.

As time was of the essence I thought it best if I practiced my grammar school accent, to that end the locals enquires were few and far between with the occasional are you British?

England is Britain & Britain is England.
210

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:26:46
274. Not a chance in hell, England pays for scotland,you now it,salmond nows it,so go ahead have your vote on independence,and lose 30 billion quid!
211

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 13:26:51
As a unionist I welcome anything that allows us to celebrate Scotland's remarkable contributions to the world, which were, of course, largely the result of us joining with our English neighbours to create the United Kingdom. No other country of a similar size to Scotland has had such an influence on the world. There's a Union dividend for you.
212

A big boy dun it an ran away,

17/06/2008 13:27:18
Lads and lassies, it's aw gettin a bit oot o han. Let us gie ye a wee tip, dinnae be nestie juist acause ye can, the wurld’ll no git ony better fur yese juist cause yese 5hit on yer neebur.
213

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 13:27:59
#276 - So when was the last time Britain played Italy at football of rugby?
214

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:30:13
277. It was not,but if you want the UK WORKFORCE! 34.67 MILLION were in work as of may 2008!
215

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:32:29
282. you won by 1 VOTE, even then we can't be sure,as a lot of ballot papers were spoilt!
216

Bejjy,

17/06/2008 13:34:22
#271 Wardog

Says it all about you and your ilk doesn't it. Andy Murray is a young Scot who is doing well in his chosen profession and yet because he refers to himself as British you choose to denigrate him. Fellow Scots should be proud of this young man and other young Scots who achieve and not condemn them because their view of the world may be different to the one that you have. Or is it going to be in the brave new world of an independant Scotland that success is not to be encouraged? If so, I for one and I'm sure many more of my fellow Scots would not want any part of it.
217

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 13:35:17
283
Does the fact that Scotland has done extremely well out of our part in the UK cause you problems, Wardog?
218

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 13:35:20
282 - The SNP did not win a majority of the popular vote. The SNP won the most votes, but not more than the other parties combined.

283 - You may cringe if you wish. But it is, of course, true. No other cuntry the size of Scotland has had the impact we have had on the world. And it is because of our partnership withthe English and A
219

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 13:36:33
282 - The SNP did not win a majority of the popular vote. The SNP won the most votes, but not more than the other parties combined.

283 - You may cringe if you wish. But it is, of course, true. No other country the size of Scotland has had the impact we have had on the world. And it is because of our partnership with the English and the part we played - good and bad - in the creation and spread of the British Empire.
220

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 17/06/2008 13:38:20
England is Britain & Britain is England.
------------

As soon as you leave these shores this is correct.

That's why anywhere I go I say i'm Scottish. if i say I'm British then people just take that to mean English.

France is a very good example of how to make yourself very unpoplar very quickly by stating you are 'British'.

Shows how well we are represented abroad eh?

The sad fact of the matter is that people around the world only learn about other countries by looking at all the different coloured countries on a map. We are on a single shade that says 'UK' or 'Britain'. For the rest of the world this means England.

That is the harsh reality.

Only sovereign nations are recognised in this world, not regions.

For this reason, i have little time for Scots who moan about foreigners always getting confused about 'the difference between Britain and England' but at the same time continuing to support the union.

If you want to do something about this situation then you need to get some irish b++s and vote independence.

If you support remaining in the union then stop complaining and accept the fact that you are seen by the rest of the world as a region of England, no matter how much you bleat on about the 'UK' and 'Britain' - end of.







221

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:42:14
286, my post ot 284 was for the UK, the only thing "WEIRD" is your blatant attempt to disrespect England!
222

European Scot,

17/06/2008 13:43:02
276 Border Scot

"#276 - So when was the last time Britain played Italy at football of rugby?"

A DVD of the film' Battle of Britain ' is available here in Spain, and also in France.
Titled 'Batalla del Inglaterra', and Bataille d' Angleterre, respectively.
Now why would that be ?!
The same reason Sarkozy spoke of the important role England had to play alongside France and Germany in Europe, as he was standing alongside the very British Gordon Brown during his visit to England, sorry Britain.
England is synonymous with Britain.
Time for Scotland to re-establish its own identity !
223

John S,

17/06/2008 13:44:47
UK 2005 election Labour Party received 35.3% of the total votes cast, equating to approximately 22% of the electorate.
224

European Scot,

17/06/2008 13:45:09
281 Border Scot ( Correction on the post number )
225

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:47:42
289. Exactly my point, well said.
226

Sedov,

Scotland 17/06/2008 13:49:35
.. and yes we can celebrate Scotlands great gift to the world Scotch whisky ... and have special whisky tasting sessions along Prices Street and Buchanan Street and the shops can promote our great drink to the visitors, at a price set by our great mentors, the SNP of course, .. but wait a meenit you tourists and visitors! ... you will not be able to buy our world famous drink if you are under 21 so bring your ma and pa with you to our great country which gave the world freedom and tolerance andd which has a dream of one day being independent ...blah blah, blah
227

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 13:50:52
299
I mean Scotland did extremely well out of the UK by playing a significant role in developing the British Empire. Scottish education, industry and commerce all flourished by being part of one of the most successful political partnerships in international history.
I do not deny you your right to advocate breaking that partnership up, I do object to you denying its benefits and re-writing history.
228

monkey man,

17/06/2008 13:50:57
Will there be buckie drinking contests and haggis throwing.? I'll definitely be back for those. lol
229

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:53:54
Wardog. You really need a reality check, your arrogant approach to anything
230

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:54:57
pertaining, to the uk is both bilious, and bigoted!
231

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:56:53
309, GOT NEWS FOR YOU, WE ARE STILL THE 4TH MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
232

Bejjy,

17/06/2008 13:58:10
#298 Wardog

So anyone making comments about your comments is talking "cringe" Again says it all about you and your ilk doesn't it wee man. And your assertion that Andy Murray is "is a rude wee brat, anyone that has followed his career will confirm that" is more descriptive of your personality than that of Andy Murray. You sound envious of others success. I suggest to you Wardog that most people on these forums who read your bile will confirm that you are one nasty abusive individual who most right minded Scots would not want anything to do with
233

kimba,

17/06/2008 13:59:32
311. WELL KNOWN BY WHOM! ARE YOU OUT TO SH-T STIR!
234

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:01:45
WARDOG. You are the weakest link, good bye!
235

monkey man,

17/06/2008 14:02:00
The wee Brigadoon Bravehearts should live in the real world..not 1314. Get over it, we are British, we live in the British Isles, have British passports. Regressing to some imaginary Scotchland is utter laughable lunacy. lol
236

John S,

17/06/2008 14:03:24
I wonder if the other Scottish political parties and our Scottish Westminster MP's will canvass for a boycott the the Year of Homecoming event ? Off course they cannot make that decision on there own but will have to wait for what to do next from the leaders at Westminster.
237

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:04:53
316,. NO, MY STASTISTICS WERE CORRECT,34.67 million people are employed in the uk.
238

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:06:47
319. At last, a man with commen sense.
239

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 14:07:28
313
Wardog,
What's the point?
For nationalists, history is ignored when it doesn't fit into their imagined past. On a more sinister level we have the first minister of Scotland suggesting a historical scenario which fits in with his own romantic notions rather than any historical 'fact'.
But it matters not, Wardog, by your refusal to even countenance the fact that Scotland has seen benefits from being part of the UK you have outed yourself as being part of a lunatic fringe.
240

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/06/2008 14:13:49
#293 So you think that a lack of education in other countries can only be rectified by Scotland's independence? And you think that's a good reason for independence?

I have some sad news for you. Scotland is actually one of the better known nations of Europe in, for example, the USA. An American is more likely to be able to identify where Scotland is than the locations of Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, or a host of other small European nations - all of whom are already independent.

The problem is the insular nature of US education, not the constitutional status of the nations.
241

John S,

17/06/2008 14:14:39
#324 - From 1992-2004, Scotland’s gross value added grew at 4.7 percent, compared with a UK average of 5.4 percent, giving Scotland only 87 percent of the UK’s growth.The Adam Smith Institute - April 27, 2007
242

monkey man,

17/06/2008 14:14:41
I'm Scottish and not proud or ashamed to say so, but the loonys on here espousing what is borderline Scottish fascist garbage are hilarious. lol

Scotland couldn't survive as an autonomous independent country as it doeasn't have both the financial or intellectual structures to do so. It would be as funny as Glasgow declaring UDI from Holyrood, which is a bigger joke in itself. Face reality, bravehearts.

It would be like a remake of the Ealing Comedy, Passport to Pimlico....or more like Passport To Portobello. lol
243

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:18:52
325. There were 29 million people employed in the uk in 2006, the total for may 2008 is 34.67 million,get a grip!
244

Alan B,

17/06/2008 14:19:25
#Grahamski

U can argue about the past.

But we should all look to the future. The union is just not in scotlands interests.

I have yet to see a coherent argument for the union in its current state from any of those threads over the past yr.

In democractic terms it means we are dominated by a country much larger than ourselves who has a different political perspective. They vote tory and we do not.

A situation that means that the tories will rule scotland again with next to no representation is just not democratic. Why would anyone want to go back to the democractic deficits of the 80s.

In economics terms any comparison between ourselves and other small western european nations shows how badly we have faired.

As such in no practical terms can the union be seen to be good for scotland. Even if an argument can be made that in theory there is a usefulness to the union, in practice we can see it just does not happen in the real world.

245

RevOD,

Nebraska, USA 17/06/2008 14:21:47
I read the article, got to thinking about my native land, my family "back home", the possibility of seeing them again, seeing Scotland again, and maybe putting a few dollars into the Scottish economy. Then I read some of the clap-trap drivel of negativity and bitterness from som of the posters on here and I suddenly remembered why, for the sake lof my own sanity and well-being, I left Scotland in the first place. It's sad - really sad!
246

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 14:21:52
#320 John S:

"I wonder if the other Scottish political parties and our Scottish Westminster MP's will canvass for a boycott the the Year of Homecoming event?"

Not sure why they would boycott it, particularly since it was the labour party who originally had the idea.
247

monkey man,

17/06/2008 14:25:03
#332

Its time you joined the rest of Scotland and moved on...it isn't 1314 anymore. Scotland doesn't have the capacity or even the desire for independence. The good people know that reliance on England or Brussels makes common sense.

Independence for Scotland means regression,poverty and isolation, nothing else.
248

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 14:26:18
327
Tell you what Wardog, I'll let you off, you don't have to wriggle anymore...let's pretend that membership of the UK has brought nothing but pain to Scotland.
There does that feel better?
Other periods in our history can similarly be re-written, just ask Mr Salmond. If he finds it difficult to imagine a Scot doing something dodgy like the Abbot of Scone meekly surrendering Scotland's most famous symbol to Edward in 1296, he just makes up an alternative history. So, hey presto! without any historical facts Mr Salmond invents the scenario where the wily abbot allows the evil Edward to ransack a substitute.
Genius. Completely bonkers but pure genius!
249

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:28:40
337. Not a lot has changed, more bitterness,more bigotry,and a arrogance second to non!
250

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:29:57
344. LOL!
251

John S,

17/06/2008 14:30:13
#330:Leading Irish finance expert urges Scotland: ‘Follow our example and go for independence’
Mary Fulton, financial services partner in Dublin with "big four" accountancy firm Deloitte, told the Sunday Herald that Scotland would be more likely to build a thriving financial services sector as an independent nation.June 08, 2008
The call was echoed last week by Ben Thomson, chairman of Scotland's leading investment bank Noble Group and a declared supporter of fiscal autonomy, who said Ireland's example showed that Scotland suffered from being "shackled to the UK tax system".
If Scotland chose to follow the Republic of Ireland’s low-tax route, measured in household income per head, Scotland, which started £1,700 behind the rest of the UK, could be expected to be £6,000 ahead of it at the end of that period.The Adam Smith Institute - April 27, 2007
The north sea will continue to provide oil for another 100 years, twice as long as previous estimates, according to industry analysts.
Dr Richard Pike, a former oil industry consultant and now the chief executive of the Royal Society of Chemistry.15/06/2008

252

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 14:32:38
346
And the green-ink, swivel-eyed, looney-tunes, boorish entity which is feral nationalism hoves into view........it's not a pretty sight.
253

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:32:40
wardog, scottish education, salmond promises,then takes away, excellent education policy!
254

Jardine,

17/06/2008 14:32:46
#41

Modern genetics is bxxxxxxx!
255

GalacticCannibal ate the grey man.,

Alex da man 17/06/2008 14:32:56
Weeeeeeeeeeee>>> weeeeeeeeeeeeeee>>> weeeeeeeeeeeeee>>>> hi dudes im skateboarding in Walmarts weeeeeee>>>>>>>>>

Hey dudes Happy Homecoming 09 Scotland's call to the world day. Dudes i will be arriving with( Duncan's doughnuts) and a good old US of A bag of shrooms.

Have you dudes got your oil back yet ? last time i was in Wishaw i saw a wishy ooshy tooshy Jack Mcconnell with a big toosh.

Hey dudes the Forbes fortune 100 has listed my shroom company as the 9th largest corporation in the world and to celebrate this along with Scotland coming home day, i have decided to move my shroom HQ to little old Motherwell under the banner " They are Scotland's shrooms "

Shrooms and the SNP are the winning team & Labour are garbage.

ALEX DA MAN

ALEX DA MAN

ALEX DA MAN AND WENDY IN THE BIN

Happy Scotland homecoming day dudes, weeeeeeeeeeee im orbiting the moon high on my shrooms "ITS SCOTLANDS MOON"

www.moonbeamsrus.org

256

Zambo,

17/06/2008 14:34:01
Some 400 years after colonization Africa is a basket case, starvation and too many guns are some of the root causes, but scratch the surface in modern Scotland and we can see most of you people have not evolved much either. Thank god we dont have guns and starvation here because there seems to be plenty budding Robert Mugabe's out there.
257

monkey man,

17/06/2008 14:34:39
The "uber-Jocks" on here are embarrassing but also hilarious. lol

Margaret Thatcher was the best thing ever to happen to modern Scotland, as the tens of thousands of real Scots who bought their council houses and shares in the then newly-privatised utilities will testify.

Wrapping oneself in a Saltire and laughable 1314 -esque jingoism won't bring home the bacon, I'm afraid.
258

Grahamski,

Falikirk 17/06/2008 14:35:23
347
Scottish education, commerce and industry all benefitted from the access to the markets of the empire afforded by being a part of that empire.
To say otherwise is ludicrous.
Discuss....
259

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:39:20
350. As i have already said this was for APRIL,WE ARE NOW IN JUNE, Hence 34.67 million!
260

GalacticCannibal ate the grey man.,

Orbiting a org 17/06/2008 14:40:03
<><><><<>< 357 monkey man

Hey dude i bet you suffer from halitosis and would make a 75m tall redwood wilt with the pong

IM DA MAN

IM DA MAN

IM DA MAN AND MONKEY MAN IN DA BIN

www.monkey/bad/breath.org
261

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 14:41:05
362
I disagree completely with monkey man. Does that make me your political ally?
Anyway, I'm off to pick up the kids...
262

Grahamski,

Falkirk 17/06/2008 14:44:00
365
Not celebrated, acknowledged. I find it disingenuous for the nats to claim the benefits of the empire without accepting our guilt. Too many blame England without being honest and admitting we were in to it up to our necks. We enthusiastically built the empire. Listening to some buffoons on here they claim we were just like the countries we subjugated..anyway must dash...
263

monkey man,

17/06/2008 14:44:25
#361

Margaret Thatcher was correct to demolish the "old industries" and destroying the self-serving corrupt unions that held Scotland back and we as the real Scottish nation should be forever in her debt for doing so.

Only a hypocrite would say otherwise.

264

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:45:53
360.The English Democrats would encourage positive attitudes to education as part of a wider programme for promoting communal values. When education is widely seen as an aid to greater freedom, happiness and prosperity, schools will become more pleasant places for pupils and teachers, and educational standards will rise.
265

GalacticCannibal ate the grey man.,

milk.org r us 17/06/2008 14:46:11
<><><><>359 Grahamski


347
Scottish education, commerce and industry all benefitted from the access to the markets of the empire afforded by being a part of that empire.
To say otherwise is ludicrous.
Discuss.... Hey dude monkey man suffers from halitosis, disgusting....


Happy shrooms r us on the happy moonbeams channel

www.snp.org
266

kimba,

17/06/2008 14:47:12
360.Primary & Secondary Education

The English Democrats support parental choice. Where there is a demand for it, schools should be able to free themselves from local education authority control and be run independently in a way that suits local needs.
267

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 14:49:32
#336 - The English have not given a majority of their votes to the Tories since 1955. In election after election they give the majority of their votes to Labour and the Liberals, just like us Scots. Even today, Labour and the Liberals combined outpoll the Tories in opinion polls. The problem is the voting system we have for Westminster elections. This gives a minority the majority. With proportional representation, the chances are that we would never have had 18 years of Tory rule in the first place.
268

monkey man,

17/06/2008 14:51:17
Scotland was an eager and willing participator in the majesty that was the British Empire. It is also now easy through hindsight to condemn the Empire through modern eyes but we can't judge British colonialism just as we can't judge the Roman or even the Ottoman Empires by modern standards.

They are all part of history's rich fabric.
269

GalacticCannibal ate the grey man.,

nanny from hell 17/06/2008 14:51:38
<><<><<><<> 373 kimba

Hey dude i have a pet rat named kimba, r u both cousins.. My best dude Gereeeeeeeeeeeee has to odd socks and his MOM is obese and i call her "Bigger than big MAMA"

Happy obese day dudes


www.obese/fatty/boomboom.org
270

,

17/06/2008 14:57:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
271

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 15:02:07
Kimba:

You appear to be very confused and contradictory.

You say you are a English Democrat member (a party who want to convene an English parliament, with independence for Scotland and Wales as one of their possible options for doing this), but then you also advocate Britishness and the UK?

You are also critical of independence for Scotland even though your own party suggests this as a possibility in its campaign for an English parliament.

Perhaps instead of wasting your time contradicting your own parties' views on Scottish newspaper posting boards, you should be using your energy on English boards attempting to persuade your fellow English to set up an English parliament?
272

John S,

17/06/2008 15:05:35
#382 Wardog - From the Labour Party 1997 Manifesto
We are committed to a referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. An independent commission on voting systems will be appointed early to recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system.
The Labour Party 2001 manifesto did not make such a commitment.
273

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:06:25
#383

Er, no but we can't judge the British Empire by the political and social mores of this modern age. The British Empire,of course, wasn't perfect but that even now to this very day the descendents of those nations" oppressed and subjugated" (sic)will travel through other nations to willingly reside in Great Britain says everything about how bad the Empire really was.



274

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 15:10:10
#389 John S:

Every party makes manifesto promises that they don't keep once they win.

The SNP,for example, promised a first time buyers' grant of £2000 in their 2007 manifesto, a promise which they have subsequently broken.
275

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/06/2008 15:12:17
Scottish or British is only a question in the Weegie Valley who also happen to account for most of the negative aspects of modern Scotland's social problems.

Knives, Junkies, Mass Unemployment, Dole Spongers, Deprived Housing, Labour Voters and Religious inspired violence and sectarianism.

Yet the largest supporters of the Union and what it has failed to achieve also come from the very same demographic area. If only they could see themselves as their Unionist Overlords see them.....Fools to be manipulated by their biggotry like daft we puppets on a string, certainly not equals. Mosts English do not even understand the different factions in Scotland because to them it does not matter. Take Kimba as a fine example of understanding.

Now I have many good friends and family from the Weegie Valley especailly from (Soap) Dodge City itself, who are some of the most civilised and educated people I have ever met but for each of them I have met countless Bams who are either Irish or British. Divide and conquer is a simple an effective policy for the foolish.

As for all the p1sh about nationalism being dangerous, comparing scots with Nazi's, claiming we are anti english, etc, etc.

We are pro Scottish and have always been in the Highlands but please stop looking at my love for my country as something sinister.

We as a people should celebrate any f#cking way we please. If you do not like it. Stay at home.

As for those who complain about the cost would be complaining as they are threatened by any display of Scottish Pride because they know where it is leading.

If you want to feel Scottish and Proud come to the Highlands we have never stopped celebrating being Scottish.
276

Scimitar,

Oudenaarde , Belgium 17/06/2008 15:12:18
The Scotland of today isn't the one I left 12 years ago. Society there has regressed in my opinion. I now live in a town the size of Paisley where there is NO criminality, young people are cordial and respectful, and where there is no equivalent word for NEDS or CHAVS. Housing costs are approximately half the cost , and I can cycle to work without risking my life. Oh , and I work a 32 hour week, have 5 weeks paid holiday and get paid equivalent 25% more. Scottish society is broken , unless they fix that and an improvement in career prospects then this exile isn't likely to return.
277

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:15:46
The Scottish Saltire is quite rightly seen as a provocative racist symbol by many people and associated with nationalist extremists. They should be ditching that for a start if they want inclusion.
278

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 15:16:26
#365 - The celebration of Scotland that you have been so warmly endorsing is only possible because scotland was a pivotal player in the biggest Empire the world has ever seen. In celebrating Scotland's contributions to the world, we are celebrating Scotland's part in the Union. After all, they would not be drinking whisky and playing golf across the globe if the Empire had not exported both.
279

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/06/2008 15:21:05
I just re read my last post and I forgot to specifically mention the worst of the worst the Shepherds who encourage such behaviour through cunning and intelligence. They serve their masters well and their country little they remind me of such historical figures that have always put short term personal gain over long term good of the nation.
280

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:23:02
#399

The Scottish Saltire flag, just like England's St George's Cross, have been hijacked by borderline fascists and are now commonly associated with and synoymous with racism and bigotry.
281

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:25:18
388. No confusion,the EDP want pretty much what scotland has now,whilst remaining in the UK.
282

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:35:14
# 405

I think I hit a raw nerve there. lol

If the most famous expression of Scottish "culture" is drunken fools wrapped in the bigoted Saltire flag,wearing skirts and grubby Timberland boots whilst exposing themselves to passers-by on their way to football grounds it says everything.

I'm sure they'll be at the airports welcoming the "homecomers" back. lol
283

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 15:35:47
#403 - Despite the riots, the majority of people living in Scotland in 1707 probably had very little idea that any Union was taking place. They had no votes, they were largely landless, they had no say in how they were governed. In fact, they had had no say in the creation of a Scottish state either. Their views, if they had any on great matters of state (which is doubtful when they spent most of their time working out how in their pitiful poverty they could feed and clothe their families), were completely irrelevant, just as they had been since the beginning of time.

In terms of what might have happened had the Union not taken place, we can all speculate. However, I ask you to point me in the direction of any other country of our size, with a population of just five million, that has had anywhere near the influence Scotland has had on the world. I would also ask you to point me in the direction of all the globally influential Scottish thinkers, scientists, industrialists, doctors etc there were before 1707. How many of them does the world remember now? Calvin, of course; but who else?
284

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:36:06
WARDOG. Manifesto E-mail
Monday, 14 January 2008

MANIFESTO & CONSTITUTION



OF THE



ENGLISH DEMOCRATS The English Democrats would encourage positive attitudes to education as part of a wider programme for promoting communal values. When education is widely seen as an aid to greater freedom, happiness and prosperity, schools will become more pleasant places for pupils and teachers, and educational standards will rise.
285

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 15:36:11
#397

"That plainly isn't true, a consultation document was issued and comments returned, from the majority of respondents saying that £2000 home buyer grant wasn't a good idea, the policy has therefore now been reviewed..... no final decision has been made."

In their manifesto the SNP stated that they WOULD introduce a first time buyers' grant of £2000, they did not say we will review the policy and MIGHT introduce it.

As for the Scottish Single Survey (or HIPS as you call it), this was actually introduced by the Scottish Executive when labour was in power, the SNP did not introduce the idea, they have merely continued it.
286

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:37:15
407. LOL!
287

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:40:00
#412

Racist.? Didn't the Scots invent the KKK.? Yes or No.?
288

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/06/2008 15:46:07
#409 Monkey Man

Flags don't hurt people. People hurt people. Has there been any incidents of Scottish Flags present at recent out burst of national xenophobia. I can only think of this happening in the presence of the Union flag.

To enquire further into the working of your mind, the St George and St Andrew flags are offensive individually but together they are great. How Come?
289

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:48:16
Listen you jumped up tartan bigots; Britain is a great place,if you think the grass will be greener with independence, think again, scotland will be engulfed in the EU super state,AND SALMOND WILL BE THE INSTIGATOR.
290

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 15:48:52
Kimba,

The English Democrats have put forward 3 alternative options for the creation of their English parliament.

One of these options is that the English parliament will be formed as an independent legislation for the state of England, upon dissolution of the Union, and independence for Wales and Scotland.

If you are an English democrat as you claim, why are you against one of their options for the English parliament?
291

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:50:58
413.Not even the EDP get everything right,scotland is and should remain BRITISH!
292

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:51:36
#415

Why is it that the only time I ever hear anti-English racism is when the Scottish Saltire is in the vicinity.? That explains everything.
293

voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 15:54:51
Shrewd, so very shrewd Alex.

But pith and power 'til my last hour
I'll mak this declaration
Though bought and sold for English gold
It's time to take back our nation
294

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:55:46
The SNP are an anti-English party,always have been,always will be!
295

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:58:13
421. CR-P!
296

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 15:58:35
Kimba:

Why are you so obssessed with Scotland and whether it remains part of the UK or not? Surely its not really of any consequence to you? Why, as an English democrat supporter, do you waste all your time on a Scottish board?

Surely you should be attempting to persuade other English people about the benefits of an English parliament rather than wasting your time commenting on another country's affairs?
297

monkey man,

17/06/2008 15:59:38
#422

Yes,and they were also direct descendents of Scots settlers. Their racist Confederate Flag to symbolise separation from the US Union is also a Saltire. Weird co-incidence that,eh.?

Maybe that is a warning from the past for the separatists here as well.
298

Saoghal Beag,

17/06/2008 15:59:56
419 Monkeyman, you must be wrapped in a saltire as you type as scanning throught he above postings the only ones that come close to racial offensive are your own, and possibly kimba's, though i excuse her on grounds of sanity.
299

kimba,

17/06/2008 15:59:58
425. We want what scotland has now, no more ,no less!
300

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/06/2008 16:01:11
414 monkey man,17/06/2008 15:40:00
#412

Racist.? Didn't the Scots invent the KKK.? Yes or No.?

NO They did not any more than they invented the Yankee Army.

Sir Walter Scott,, first brought the "fiery cross" to modern attention in his poem The Lady of the Lake. In the poem the cross is set ablaze on the hilltops to summon the Scottish clans. Scott's work was especially popular in the American south, where much of the populace was of Scotch-Irish extraction. Just one problem. The fiery cross of Scottish legend wasn't the upright Roman cross commonly used by the Klan. Rather it was the X-shaped cross of St. Andrew.
The original Ku Klux Klan, which was founded in 1866 and disbanded in the early 1870s, didn't burn crosses, but that didn't stop author Thomas Dixon from saying they did in his pro-KKK novel The Clansman (1905).
Knowing a good idea when he saw one, William J. Simmons, the founder of the Klan in its second incarnation (1915-1944), cobbled together a cross and burned it at a meeting of the newly-established Knights of the Ku Klux Klan on Thanksgiving night, 1915, on Stone Mountain near Atlanta. Flaming crosses have been a Klan trademark ever since
Where does the name Ku Klux Klan come from? It seems the men who founded the original Klan were tossing out ideas for a name when somebody came up with kukloi, plural of the Greek kuklos, circle. Somebody else had the bright idea of twisting kuklos into Ku Klux. Klan was added later for alliteration, and they spelled it with a K rather than a C so as not to confuse the rank and file.
301

kimba,

17/06/2008 16:01:26
429.BULLYING TACTICS AGAIN,how sad!
302

Border Scot,

17/06/2008 16:01:43
#420 - The Union has been of immense benefit to both Scotland and England. And, yes, I do take great pride in the contributions my fellow Scots have made to the world. I am surprised that you do not, given that only a wee while ago you were extolling the merits of the Year of the Homecoming. Is it not such a good idea now?

As for the countries that you list - many of them are now very successful, others less so. Portugal, of course, was a dictatorship until 30 years ago; the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway and Denmark were all conquered by Germany within living memory.
303

G,

dundy 17/06/2008 16:01:53
Xcellent idea - which party did the SNP steal it from?
I hope they have costed it properly OR are they going to get the begging bowls out to Westminster half way through...

304

voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 16:03:34
It was not Union that enabled the Enlightenment, fellow posters of dubious pedigree in history. Rather it was the end to battle (forever) that ensued following the defeat of the Jacobite cause in '46.

Many leading figures of the enlightenment took unsuccesfully and somewhat pathetically to arms when Chairlie's army approached.

When he finally ran like a rabbit doon the glen, he did Scotland the greatest service of any monarch since.

The Kirk, the Union and peace did the rest; propelling Scots, educated as no other nation, into worldwide influence and adventure. By the way I am an atheist, nationalist with no reason to tout these flawed institutions, but I know my facts and must give credit where due.
305

kimba,

17/06/2008 16:04:13
431. Not all scots are bigoted fools,only the snp supporters apparently!
306

kimba,

17/06/2008 16:07:07
Wardog. Give it up,you are the weakest link,GOODBYE!
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 16:07:09
#432

interesting; learning all the time....
308

Yeah1,

17/06/2008 16:08:02
Kimba:

If want an English parliament like the Scottish one already in place, why are you on this Scottish board all the time?

Why aren't you on English websites trying to persuade English people to support the English democrats so you can get the English parliament that you want?
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monkey man,

17/06/2008 16:09:12
#436

The Enlightenment was only the natural progression of the greatest achievement in Scotland's history that was The Reformation. The second would never have organically evolved without the first.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:09:30
438. And maybe you can list the countries that would have fallen into communist hands if not for GB!
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Yeah1,

17/06/2008 16:11:14
Kimba since you have avoided answering me so far I will repeat myself:

Why are you so obssessed with Scotland and whether it remains part of the UK or not? Surely its not really of any consequence to you? Why, as an English democrat supporter, do you waste all your time on a Scottish board?

Surely you should be attempting to persuade other English people about the benefits of an English parliament rather than wasting your time commenting on another country's affairs?

Perhaps you could answer that instead of trying to stir up more arguments with your ridiculous statements.
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 16:12:52
Great. Another load of hollow rubbish from the government. Instead of some stupid "Homecoming" idiotic rubbish I want investment in health, public transport and helping rural areas.

This is just Gordon Brown style "flying the flag" petty nonsense. In Gordon's case he says he does it for Britain. In Alex Salmond's case he picks a Scottish flag. They are both just behaving like idiots and showing the rest of us that they really have nothing to offer to ordinary people and no ideas to improve things.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:14:00
446. We do ,hence the true total as of june 2008,not april,june, 34.67 million in employment in the UK!
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European Scot,

17/06/2008 16:14:42
392 Jock MacTamson 2

Agree with your comments !
The success of divide and rule is well illustrated on these boards.
Can you imagine any other country in this world where there are a group of people who actually advocate standing against the Independence of their own country, and at the same time claim to be staunch supporters of that country.
It defies logic and common sense.
It also defies the majority of people in this World, who do support the Independence of their country.
Anything that promotes Scotland in a positive light is OK by me.
I wouldn't expect the majority of Unionists to be able to understand positively standing up for their country, unless of course it's called Britain.
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Border Scot,

17/06/2008 16:15:06
#443 - Yes, it is tiresome when people put words into your mouth, isn't it?
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Saoghal Beag,

17/06/2008 16:15:34
kimba, not bullying just an observation based on your tendency to shout at everyone. Seems symptomatic of an inferiority complex and temper management issues. Shouting is so very uncouth and invariably unnecessary.))
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 16:18:24
And look out for the SNP's "bonfire of the quangos". This will be just the same as Labour's "bonfire of the quangos". ie. A lot more quangos so that they all get nice wee director style jobs when we all finally boot them out.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:18:38
447. Christ,how much longer do i have to say this,my dad is scottish,my gran lives in Dundee,hence,i have every right to fight for what my family believes,and that ain't alex salmond!
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monkey man,

17/06/2008 16:18:54
#448

The Reformation gave liberation to free thought in Scotland after the evil tyranny of Romish oppression. This lead to the Act Of Union with free trade to the colonies, then to The Enlightenment. It can all be tracked in a direct linear path.
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Border Scot,

17/06/2008 16:19:02
#451 - Clearly you know little of Europe, European Scot. I would imagine my position, for example, is very similar to that of a Catalan who takes great pride in Catalonia, its language, its culture and its history, but is still happy for Catalonia to be a part of Spain. Ditto the Bavarians, the Lombardians, the Friesians, the Welsh etc etc etc
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Border Scot,

17/06/2008 16:21:22
#456 - Why google? I only need to look at how our cradle to grave welfare system and the NHS have helped millions of Scots over the last 60 years. A Union dividend indeed.
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17/06/2008 16:23:40
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Yeah1,

17/06/2008 16:23:56
#458

"i have every right to fight for what my family believes,and that ain't alex salmond!"

But surely as a self-pronounced English democrat supporter it would be more important to you that England should get its own parliament than that Scotland should not be independent?

Surely the cause of an English parliament should be a bigger priority to you than the independence of Scotland?

If that is the case why do you spend all your time on Scottish website boards?
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:25:20
wardog.The number of workforce jobs in March 2008 was 31.67 million, up 44,000 on the quarter and up 237,000 over the year. This is the highest figure since comparable records began in 1959. courtesy of National Statistics. slightyly less than i qouted, but more than you qouted.Source: Office for National Statistics
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:27:16
464.Dream on!
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:30:01
468. NO it's not, scotland spends it's money in a differant way that's all.
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 16:30:42
#461 Oh yes, even more interruption of the traffic flow on the main A82 route as the stupid ancient swing bridge across the Caledonian Canal closes it even more is just what we need in peak season. It already causes chaos to the road with lengthy traffic jams and I myself have sat behind an ambulance with full blue lights and sirens on, unable to get their patient to hospital A&E as the seemingly power hungry numpty little jobsworth controlling the bridge just looked on impassively.

I wish this latest SNP abomination of a "Homecoming" could just be canned. It’s pathetic, dangerous and plain stupid.
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Yeah1,

17/06/2008 16:31:25
#464 A voice from free Scotland:

You can't be serious? You are basing your statement that 82% of Scots want independence on a Times website poll that proclaims itself as 'strictly for fun'???

It is not an official poll such as the YouGov polls, it is a fun website poll that anyone, not just Scots, can vote on - for all you know all those voting in favour might not even be Scottish.

If you are going to use statistics please at least try to use official ones, not just votes from a self-proclaimed 'fun' poll.
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17/06/2008 16:36:10
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:36:55
476. Jeez, i'm targeted! pity i won't be responding.
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 16:39:00
#476 How is closing our main route that is also one of Scotland's most dangerous roads (the A82) helping Scotland? Lucky for you if it's not one of your family stuck dying in an ambulance as your ridiculous "Homecoming" boat festival lagered up nonsense in the Caledonian Canal blocks their route to hospital.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:39:22
478. Westminster give scotland x amount of money to spend as they wish,they wish to have free presciptions, free elderly care etc.
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Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/06/2008 16:40:13
#459 Monkey Man

#448

The Reformation gave liberation to free thought in Scotland after the evil tyranny of Romish oppression. This lead to the Act Of Union with free trade to the colonies, then to The Enlightenment. It can all be tracked in a direct linear path.

Where did you learn history. The only point I can agree with is ridding Scotland of the Bishops was a great move to our betterment. There was no free trade to the colonies for Scotland and Westminster passed acts to that effect specifically to stop Scottish Trade. Our attempt to create our own trading colony in Panama was sabotaged on purpose by the English to keep Spain sweet which bankrupted our nation bringing us to the Union to get the money back as a bribe. These are all matters of historical fact and Westminster Acts why do you not know such details.

Read history books of both England and Scotland for a balanced view.
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17/06/2008 16:40:24
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17/06/2008 16:42:29
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 16:47:37
#484 please read my #473. Yes I have experienced the road blocked to emergency vehicles for boaters to sail at their leisure along the Caledonian Canal. British Waterways Board are proud that they can close the A road at leisure and they make sure everybody else knows it.

Festivals have their place but we already have too many.
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Yeah1,

17/06/2008 16:49:33
'A voice from free Scotland':

Surely it would be better to give links to real polls rather than ones which are 'just for fun'?

What is the point of putting up a link to a meaningless 'fun' poll?

It is not relevant and is not any indication of how Scots feel about independence or are likely to vote in an independence referendum.

By continually stating this poll you are merely embarassing yourself and presenting yourself as someone whose views cannot be taken seriously if you believe a 'fun' website poll is in anyway relevant.
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European Scot,

17/06/2008 16:50:26
460 Border Scot

Whatever my knowledge of Europe is, aside of living in France and Spain, I do know that there is a difference between Regions, States and Countries.
Unlike you, who like so many Unionists, like to compare Scotland with Regions and States. ( I am assuming you are a Unionist ! )
As to Catalonia, (Catalunya) the people of that Region of Spain have levels off Autonomy which put Scotland to shame. They also have been given the status of 'Nationality' under the Spanish Constitution, but Spain still rules the roost on items like Defence and National Law. ( Spanish )
As for the people of Catalonia being happy to be a part of Spain, I am not qualified to speak about that, or for them.
Methalions might be better able to shed light on that one, he has better knowledge of that part of Spain.
I am far more concerned with the future of my country, Scotland, in Europe, and the rest of the World, and getting it away from a situation, where people such as yourself, confuse it with being a Region !
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European Scot,

17/06/2008 16:52:23

'Of' Tut tut ! Typo
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kimba,

17/06/2008 16:56:06
487. Far from me to disagree with AM2, he/she is a great union supporter,but, westminster pays EVERY scot an extra £1,500 per annum, hence free prescription etc.
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 16:56:33
Maybe the most honest thing left is for the SNP to persuade Donald Trump to finance a TV advert starring Sean Connery as a cheer leader rousing a bunch of sad losers who have pitched up from abroad to "find their Scottish roots". It's about the sum total of the SNP's tourist policy as far as I can see it. And it's a real shame when there is so much more to offer.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:01:27
500. Well said, scotland deserves better than the snp.
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 17:03:19
493. Laughable - AM2 objects to Salmond using "links with Scotland or an affinity for Scotland" in the context of who the events are appealing to in terms of attracting visitors - clearly AM2 would target his appeal to those with no connection to and no affinity for Scotland....
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Yeah1,

17/06/2008 17:03:59
#502 Kimba:

"Well said, scotland deserves better than the snp"

So who would you suggest Scotland should be supporting instead of the SNP then Kimba? I'm sure you realise that Scottish people cannot vote for the English Democrat Party in elections, so who would you suggest they should vote for?
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:05:36
501. Not at all, i'm advocating that England should have free prescriptions, why should people in England pay £7.10 per item,many have to choose between health and food.
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 17:06:47
508. That is what your government chose - do you not believe in democracy? If it bothers you, stop bleating and vote for a party which will lower the charges.
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 17:07:47
508. Kimba says "many have to choose between health and food." - given the photos we have seen of the bloated Mount Kimba, her choice has been pretty clear and consistent over the years...
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 17:08:32
455. Gal Can - lmao
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:09:46
507. How about the Tories,here's what D.W.D. Cameron has to sat!
Speech to Scottish Conservative Party Conference
"Let me make it one hundred percent clear: I am passionate about the Union. I don't want to be the Prime Minister of England. I want to be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom - all of it, including Scotland.
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Yeah1,

17/06/2008 17:11:04
#513

If the tories are so good why don't you support them yourself instead of the English democrat party?
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:13:06
WARDOG. THIS ONE. We recognise that the future shape of the United Kingdom is therefore to a large extent dependent upon the wishes of the people of Scotland.
WE ARE A UNION,AS OF SUCH THE UNION SHOULD DECIDE,AND THAT INCLUDES ENGLAND,WALES.& N.I.
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 17:17:14
#513 I still believe in Scottish independence but the SNP is doing a damned good job of turning me of it.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:17:32
516. That is up to the scottish people,but, Cameron will never let scotland go,another cameron quote-But let me say this: if it should ever come to a choice between constitutional perfection and the preservation of our nation, I know my choice. Better an imperfect union than a broken one. Better an imperfect union than a perfect divorce. My answer is simple: I choose the United Kingdom.
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 17:20:20
524. Are you aware that Mikko collaborated with a white witch to cast a spell to hide the Loch Ness Monster from a Swedish paedophile....sad, but true, the video link is available for those who wish to see Mikko and the Lord High Witch in action...
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:23:23
520. Sorry Janis,but they can't,my brother-in-law earns £14,000per annum, after they have paid their rent,utility bills,food, council tax ,and insurance they are skint.
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:26:47
534. I do,and yes,skit all you like,but at the end of the day I HAVE PROOF!
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:28:02
535.What, in Birmingham!
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Anonym,

17/06/2008 17:29:35
Kimba, I am paid less than your brother in law, and I don't qualify for free prescriptions. And I think you do not understand what "devolved" means.

It's amazing that you feel so strongly about things you don't even understand!
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kimba,

17/06/2008 17:32:17
539. THANX,i'll tell him.
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17/06/2008 17:38:18
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 17:43:47
444 man monkey

I'll not deny the reformation of the more deeply flawed church permitted the egalitarian and education minded clergy of the Kirk to flourish and that this system itself begat, if not the Enlightenment's leading lights, then at least the world's first intellectual proletariat.

The act of union, itself, is not causal in the rise of this resource, but certainly had a hand in, first the necessary defeat of Jacobitism, then later a worldwide open job req in Empire. Never forget the Scots of the enlightenment were inspirers of American Independence and wary of the French bloodletting variety of revolution.

Their sacrifice in acquiescing to the subjugation their nation as North Britain was for clear pragmatic, global reasons and were they alive in these less perilous times would be protagonists for indepndence I am sure.
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17/06/2008 17:44:26
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 17:48:19
Now Sark rins ower the Solway sand
An Tweed rins tae the ocean
Tae mark whaur Englands hegemony ends
When we take back our nation
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17/06/2008 17:54:25
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 17:56:33
What force nor guile could not subdue
Through many warlike ages
No longer shall obtain when the coward few
Deter no man by their Unionist rages
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 17:58:14
apologies Rabbie. It had tae be done!!!
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17/06/2008 18:00:08
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 18:25:19
#525 & #548 I am no troll I just want to see a new Scotland not just a re-branded tartan tat fiasco. It seems that instead of building new high-tech industries like Nokia or the forestry, all the SNP can do is come up with more stupid "Homecoming" holidays. That is sad. Put all your eggs in a cheapskate tourist basket and see how quickly the crying starts.
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 18:26:40
AM2, and others expectorating statistics in wretched spasm, your rigour-free blandishments on other questions of other electorates at other times are of no consequence. Only one stat will count...

We will have, thanks to Al & chums, an unequivocal single yes/no to the question of the Scottish Government negotiating a settlement implementing independence and ending Union.

We may not get the result Scotland deserves and that will be that for another generation, but Alex is going to do his level best to fire up the belief necessary to overcome the cringe and write his place in history.

I was saddened to see Kimba has a living granny. I felt sure she herself would be of the incontinent generation whose shuffle from this mortal coil will hasten indepndence as nostalgia for monarchy and world war dies with them.

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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 18:27:25
559. How does the SNP's focus on marine renewables, other renewables, carbon capture, and bioscience, as a few exmaples, fit with your post?
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voltaire's janny,

17/06/2008 18:30:10
556

As a matter of fact Texas, alone, has the right to secede.

Hence the bumper stickers "I'm from Texas, boy, what country you from?"

But they won't. Ever.
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Gdgy,

dundy 17/06/2008 18:30:18
#556 MacMadman & #557

Interesting stuff.
But I'm worried about how excited the SNP have become about the prospect of a Tory majority in England and Wales....how far will the SNP go to get their ideal of independence...and will it be good for Scotland?
ALSO once Scotkand is independent - there is absolutely no reason why we should have an SNP government - what would all the SNPites do then!
It might explain the SNP's reluctance to have a referendum - extend their days in the political sunshine......
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/06/2008 18:34:21
565. Meths - agreed, Mikko, like the Kimba, is clearly a wee construct to encourage posts....
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Fed Up with Scum,

17/06/2008 18:35:14
#337 " I suddenly remembered why, for the sake lof my own sanity and well-being, I left Scotland in the first place. It's sad - really sad!"

Exactly, I also left for years (for employment abroad) and after coming back recently I can honestly say it is sooo much worse now.

In some places like Glasgow you have large groups of drugged up teen pack animals wandering the streets with samarai swords, axes and knives and they're not afraid to use them - Just ask anyone that works in the hostpital !

A Serious clean up of these armed street scum is needed before they think about inviting loads of people to come here for a visit IMO....oh wait, they can't do that - All the jails are already full to the brim!

...so what do they do - Let loads of them out of prison early !

Duuurr, i'd stick them all on an isolated island somewhere and let them hack each other to pieces if thats how they want to live, better that than have them wandering the streets again to commit more brutal crimes against innocent people.

I don't know how anyone can be proud of that.

Very Sad state of affairs !
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17/06/2008 18:39:02
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European Scot,

17/06/2008 18:45:29
542 AM2

"But you do object to what you clearly think of as English domination – but which is reality is just variety of regional effects averaged arbitrarily, through your nationalist filter."

Your slip is showing as well AM2.
Is Scotland a Region or a Country ?
There are Nationalistic differences between England and Scotland, which, before you descend into your normal rant, has nothing to do with race.
It would be fairly safe to say that England overall as a country, tends to be more conservative, and Scotland more socialistic. It's more of a National characteristic.
At the next Election, it's a fair bet that England will vote for a Tory Government, but
Scotland will not be doing so.
One of the greatest reasons for Independence, is that when Scots vote at a Scottish General Election, they will get as a country, what they vote for.
Staying within the UK, that National vote will be overturned, and the Tories will rule the roost.
Why should the wishes of Scotland's voters continue to be overruled by English voters choosing a Tory Party, that very few in Scotland would support.
This is a little bit more than a 'regional' issue.
It's recognising that there is a real National difference here, possibly something a Unionist couldn't, or wouldn't accept. It just doesn't fit their 'UK' model.

558 AM2
At the Scottish Elections the number of people who voted for Unionist Parties did not represent the number of people who supported Independence. There were significant numbers of Independence supporters in all of the Parties.
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17/06/2008 18:47:39
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 18:47:57
#568 why can't Scotland start competing with countries like Finland in IT? Hell, Scotland had so many great inventors. The B&Bs are all fine but we are worthy of so much more than that.
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17/06/2008 18:52:48
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Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 18:55:01
583
Mikko, I would quite like a wee soft toy Nessie for my grandson.
Any idea where I could get one?
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Gdgy,

17/06/2008 19:00:06
17 % vote for the SNP//////????
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/06/2008 19:01:27
God this thread is sad.
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Border Scot,

17/06/2008 19:04:39
#489 - Most Catalans support their country being a part of Spain, just like most Scots want to remain part of the UK. You only have to look at election results in both places. I lived in Catalonia for a few years, the people htere areproud of where they come from, but the majority have very little problem with also being part of Spain.

And yes, England is a proud country which is part of a bigger country. Just like Scotland.
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European Scot,

17/06/2008 19:09:19
581 AM2

"Scotland is a nation. You wasted a lot of electrons writing all that."

Let's get to the nitty gritty of that post again AM2, the real question is at the end.

One of the greatest reasons for Independence, is that when Scots vote at a Scottish General Election, they will get as a country, what they vote for.
Staying within the UK, that National vote will be overturned, and the Tories will rule the roost.
Why should the wishes of Scotland's voters continue to be overruled by English voters choosing a Tory Party, that very few in Scotland would support.
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17/06/2008 19:09:35
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17/06/2008 19:11:14
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17/06/2008 19:13:55
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17/06/2008 19:14:43
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17/06/2008 19:18:38
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17/06/2008 19:21:09
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Border Scot,

17/06/2008 19:21:21
Hello AM2 - just a flying visit. Sometimes the looseness of some nationalist argument is just too tempting to ignore!
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17/06/2008 19:22:42
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monkey man,

17/06/2008 19:29:31
Only the loony fringe of borderline Scottish fascists support independence. It's as ludicrous and mad a concept as Glasgow declaring UDI from the rest of Scotland. It just ain't going to happen....so keep the claymores at bay. lol

Its been a good laugh though this thread.
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17/06/2008 19:31:39
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17/06/2008 19:33:42
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monkey man,

17/06/2008 19:37:41
#638

Only social inadequates and losers find solace in extreme nationalism like the SNP or the BNP. This thread has proved that beyond doubt.
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17/06/2008 19:37:45
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17/06/2008 19:39:38
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monkey man,

17/06/2008 19:42:57
#643

Both the SNP and BNP are exactly the same...only one letter separates them. Quasi-political parties built on the hatred of others. I think this thread has shown that very clearly.
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17/06/2008 19:56:36
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alice_copeland_brown,

Boston, Ma. 17/06/2008 20:06:21
Nice to see that the level of discourse is as low in my ancestors' homelands as it is here in the land of war criminals.

So here's the thing. I'm a Copeland, from the Cope Islands originally and then Glascow...back a few years.
Daddy always said that he was thrifty because of our Scottish blood. Yet the Jews were said to be cheap for the same reasons. Could someone explain to me the difference? I've never seen it.
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Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 17/06/2008 20:49:27
#650 Alice
I think the word you're looking for is frugal. You see the Scots and the Jews share that trait, the only thing different is that the jews are allowed to hang on to their money.
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17/06/2008 20:52:20
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17/06/2008 21:03:27
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Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/06/2008 21:06:46
-- Her father's dog ran the local pub.

Us Scots don't discriminate against species when we need the best qualified for the job.
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Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 21:48:00
660
Do you think he was on his vinegar stroke @ 644 Meths?
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Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 21:52:04
666
Beast ;-)
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Conan the Librarian™,

17/06/2008 22:00:48
667
Evening McMadman.
Highland Mighty has such equipage I believe.
Is it Unionista General Issue?