Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Saturday, 6th September 2008 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Asylum: 50 families a week told they can stay in Scotland



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 05 February 2008
FIFTY asylum seekers a week are being granted leave to remain in Scotland, as part of a massive Home Office drive to clear a backlog of 400,000 files, The Scotsman can reveal.
A review of 1,100 so-called "legacy" cases has so far resulted in some 600 families being given permission to stay in the country. It is understood that by the end of the process next month, about 90 per cent of the families will be given the right to remain indefinitely.

Many of those involved are skilled workers who were from the middle classes in their home country, but were forced to leave because of persecution. A significant number are from Iraq, Iran and Eritrea.

All the cases being reviewed were initially refused asylum, but the vast majority are now being given the right to stay, partly because of the way they have integrated into their local community.

The Scottish Refugee Council last night welcomed the move and said many asylum seekers had been left in limbo, with their lives on hold awaiting a decision.

The plight of Scotland's refugees has come into sharp focus in recent years with growing concern over the number of forced removals and dawn raids, especially those involving children.

To avoid a repeat of the problems, the government last year introduced a streamlined system for dealing with the 2,000 asylum seekers who arrive in the UK each month. It set tough new deadlines for dealing with applications, and officials are now expected to reach a decision within one month of an application being lodged. However, that has triggered fears that many more cases will be mishandled, with applicants not being given enough time to gather the documents, witnesses and other evidence they may need to argue their claim.

One asylum seeker, who asked not to be named, described the moment when she was finally given permission to build a new life in Scotland.

She was relaxing at home when, at 3.50pm, on 8 October last year, her prayers were answered.

The phone call that confirmed she had been granted indefinite leave to remain in Scotland – ending seven years of anguish after fleeing her North African homeland – could not have been more timely. It was the 27th day of Ramhadan, the day that Muslims the world over pray that their dreams will come true.

Hers is among nearly 1000 asylum-seeking families that have been granted, or set to be granted, permission to stay in the country under a Home Office review that will conclude next month.

"I just shouted very loud. I was so happy, it was the best possible news," she said.

The woman was one of 1100 asylum-seeking families who have spent years living in limbo, waiting to discover their fate with many fighting in the courts for the right to remain in Scotland. As their cases rumbled on, their treatment by the authorities triggered a storm of public and political protest, as they lived with the daily fear of dawn raids and detention.

There were fears children, including many born in Scotland, would have their lives ripped apart by being taken from their homes to dangerous, alien countries. But for hundreds of these families, their future looks secure. Sally Daghlian, chief executive of the Scottish Refugee Council, described the review as "really positive".

She said "This has been a very long and difficult time for a lot of people. You cannot overestimate the difficulties people have living in limbo, living in fear for up to seven years, unable to work, unable really to continue with their lives. That's a huge impact on their mental health.

"From our experience, the majority of asylum seekers have had very good reasons for fleeing. They have escaped conflicts, human-rights abuses. It's incredibly unjust for people in those circumstances to have to wait years and years to have an answer to their application."

She said the fact hundreds of children from asylum-seeking families had been brought up in Scotland and now regarded it as their home had resulted in the high approval rate. But many of the families granted leave to remain still faced massive challenges as they struggled to build new lives, she said.

"People have not been allowed to work in some cases for as long as seven years. They will need help to brush up on their skills, to retrain and become employable again. Many also now have to find new accommodation, and deal with seemingly basic things like registering with utility companies, which they've never had to do before, so there is still a need for a huge amount of support."

Some are also struggling to cope with a legacy of psychological torture that has only been made worse by years of constant fear and uncertainty.

Kirsty Thompson, a Glasgow solicitor who represents vulnerable women and unaccompanied children who seek asylum in the UK, many of whom are victims of trafficking, warned that the deadlines for deciding new cases threatened to return many people to persecution.

She said: "We do have concerns that very short timescales with this new model won't allow our particular clients the time to disclose the information that can be a fundamental factor in deciding their case.

"A lot of our clients, because of the nature of the persecution they've suffered, take a long time for that information to be disclosed. It takes time to build up the trust, time that this new model doesn't allow us."

The Home Office said: "We have a fair asylum system which upholds the UK's proud tradition of providing protection to those who need it.

"We welcome those who meet refugee or human-rights criteria but we will take steps to remove those who have no legal grounds to stay and who choose not to leave voluntarily."

The full article contains 984 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 February 2008 9:33 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Immigration and refugees
 
1

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 05/02/2008 00:15:52
I wish all the families who have a legal right to remain in Scotland a peaceful and prosperous life. I hope you bring a valuable new facet to Scotland's culture and add to the quality of Scottish life as much as it adds to yours.
2

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 00:41:26
Where are ye John? Florida is it?
3

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 00:43:05
"All the cases being reviewed were initially refused asylum, but the vast majority are now being given the right to stay, partly because of the way they have integrated into their local community."

Initially refused asylum? Then why are they still here?
4

,

05/02/2008 00:43:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

,

05/02/2008 00:44:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Andrew D,

05/02/2008 01:38:06
So the spiteful small minded "get out of our country" shat has spread to Scotland too has it?

That's really very sad.
7

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 01:51:18
6 -Andrew D, 05/02/2008 01:38:06 says:

"So the spiteful small minded "get out of our country" shat has spread to Scotland too has it?"

I don't quite get your meaning Andy. Do you mean that Scotland should have an open door policy and that anyone should be allowed to come here without restriction? Or do you mean that anyone who claims asylum should be allowed to stay without question? Or do you just want to slag off Scotland?
8

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 05/02/2008 02:48:57
#2: Exactly, An Beal Bacht, exactly.
9

Encephalon,

05/02/2008 02:53:02
"A significant number are from Iraq, Iran and Eritrea."

Yes- just the types we really need-so why are people from these far flung places even being considered for asylum in the UK-is it not international law that asylum should be sought in the nearest country?

Coupled with the millions of economic migrants from Eastern Europe plus millions of illegals and others already here who do not share our culture we will soon be strangers in our own over-crowded island. This is all part of an orchestrated campaign to eradicate the indigenous Scottish/British population and replace them with cheap labour. Meanwhile damn the consequences for social cohesion, stress on our social services and future racial unrest

I really fear for the future-the country has become a toilet run by looney left imbeciles.
10

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 03:10:50
9 - How's the weather John? Nice is it? Have they got their e-voting machines fixed yet in Florida? Wouldn't want the big vote in November to produce a questionable result. Perhaps Douglas Alexander could help out? Scot's of all persuasions, I'm sure, will want to thank you for your best wishes John and give you a hearty Cheers fae Historic Scotland!
11

Alan Reid,

NZ 05/02/2008 03:13:09
# 1, nicely put.
But hold on "A significant number are from Iraq.
What has happened to force so many people flee their homeland? Oh, sorry forgot, the US and the UK ingaged in an illegal war that caused 100,000 deaths (and the rest), and around four million refugees!
# 5 Richard Moorhouse, why don't you crawl back under the rock you came from scumbag.
12

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 03:21:24
10Encephalon, 05/02/2008 02:53:02 asks:
"is it not international law that asylum should be sought in the nearest country?"

The UN says:

Article 31. - Refugees unlawfully in the country of refuge

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming DIRECTLY from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.
13

Sheuchend,

NZ 05/02/2008 03:24:00
Am I missing something here in NZ?

UN members (Britain, not Scotland. Sorry about that.) are expected to take a quota of international refugees each year. Presumably Scotland has some population-based subquota of the UK total.

A nation that's host to refugees from some other source, may offset these against the UN total.

Others cope; why can't Scotland?

Your refugees are made welcome here, and in Australia.
14

Navvy,

05/02/2008 03:35:46
Well that was easy. Why not chuck all the files away and let them all in.
The civil servants who created teh mess should get no pensions, ditto the governments. Instead the money should go to creating a sensible working emigration policy
15

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 03:38:08
14 Sheuchend, NZ 05/02/2008 03:24:00 says:

"Your refugees are made welcome here, and in Australia."

Well I just hope your system works better than ours - there seems to be no end of Antipodeans over here - I don't know how many of them are selling the big issue though - I'd have to check!

BTW - sheuch is spelt sheugh as in s h e u ech ech!
16

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 03:38:18
14 Sheuchend, NZ 05/02/2008 03:24:00 says:

"Your refugees are made welcome here, and in Australia."

Well I just hope your system works better than ours - there seems to be no end of Antipodeans over here - I don't know how many of them are selling the big issue though - I'd have to check!

BTW - sheuch is spelt sheugh as in s h e u ech ech!
17

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 03:41:27
Sorry re: x 2 posts. Bandwidth compromised!
18

Royster,

05/02/2008 05:15:11
Lets get naked and let everybody in.
19

Samcafe,

Glasgow 05/02/2008 06:01:10
comments like 'the stone from which you crawled' shame us all. Thank goodness England, Canada, USA, Australia and New Zealand treated our people better and with more courtesey than some of the dreadful comments on here. Within 6 months of being in Scotland 95% of migrants are in jobs earning their keep, probably doing jobs certain 'Scots' wouldn't give up their dole or incapacity benefit for. Scotland needs migrants, we don't need narrow minded, loud mouth xenophobes.
20

CASEY PURVIS,

WEST HILLS 05/02/2008 06:19:50
ABSOLUTE INSANITY.
SCOTSMEN REBEL
CASEY PURVIS
21

Gilmartin,

Philippines 05/02/2008 06:20:30
How many safe countries did these scroungers by-pass before requesting asylum in soft-touch Britain, the land of the Limitless Giro?
22

Cappo Del Monte,

05/02/2008 06:23:19
#20
As for england and the other countries you mention, they have just as bad a policy and attitude to asylum seekers. If, you mean migrants, please state that and get your facts right , as with others leaving comments, asylum seekers are 100% different to migrants who pay and pass the relevant countries tests.
They do not also hand out money to teach those migrants the language of the country they now live in like this country , you move there, you should either speak the language or learn it by your own means.
As for 95% getting jobs in 6 months, another misguided unsubstanciated fact
23

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 06:29:24
20 - Samcafe tthinks I should be shamed by a post apparently containing the phrase "the stone from which you crawled". I reject the notion that I should be held morally responsible for the views of others.

I especially resent it when the offending phrase is misquoted. Makes me think somebody's playing silly bug gers! So here's the offending phrase from the initial post.

5 - Richard Moorhouse, 05/02/2008 00:44:36

perhaps you should just save up the fare to go home to where you crawled here from. ----------------------------------------


Having misquoted a poster Samcafe then goes on to disparage Scots by suggesting we are shifty and ne'erdaeweels and that migrants are::

"doing jobs certain 'Scots' wouldn't give up their dole or incapacity benefit for".

A not very flattering view of Scots there Samcafe. Your lying and insulting ways do not endear you to me, although you will, no doubt, have plenty of support on this site. EV should be along later to join in.








24

Michael N,

Out Earning 05/02/2008 06:34:24
One asylum seeker, who asked not to be named, described the moment when she was finally given permission to build a new life in Scotland.

She was relaxing at home when, at 3.50pm, on 8 October last year, her prayers were answered.


I wonder how many tax payers who will be , and have already been, footing the bill for said asylum seeker to stay here, were relaxing at home at 3.50 pm.
25

Jimmy the Pie,

05/02/2008 07:14:41
Notice we can't comment on Hamish MacDonnel's latest literary masterpiece on Wendy. I wonder why???
Is Hamish getting fed up at being outscooped by the Sunday Post??
26

donald,

glasgow 05/02/2008 07:21:39
Hamish is outscooped by all the red tops on the Bendy stories he tries to spin. Wot comment allowed?
27

An Beal Bacht,

05/02/2008 07:28:41
Earlier - on another thread.

17 - An Beal Bacht, 05/02/2008 01:04:54

It's kind of insulting - no? The way this newspaper makes certain topics off limits to comment. Ach weell - we aw ken it's geme ower fur the lassie. So let's be charitable and avert oor eyes fae her disgrace.
28

Helmut Smegma,

Glasgow. 05/02/2008 07:55:08
Why are there so many immigrant,presumably homeless,"Big Issue" sellers on our streets these days?
29

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 05/02/2008 07:55:27
Where's your democracy here?

Who decides on new Forth Bridges; EU Constitution, immigration, etc?

'Them' that's who. Certainly not 'us'. So, just how is this a democratic country? Just because a few of us select our dictators? (Only 15% voted SNP, and how many would now vote Labour?)

We still live in the Middle Ages. No wonder these Boards are filled with vitriol. How else can we influence our own affairs?
30

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 08:02:02
#25 The woman has a job and is contributing to the tax fund, not taking from it!

What sort of a narrow-minded idiot would you have to be to assume otherwise?
31

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 05/02/2008 08:02:08
"Many of those involved are skilled workers who were from the middle classes in their home country, but were forced to leave because of persecution"

Well that's good. That means the government won't have to spend anything to train our own people, nor do they have to give them skills meaning they are trapped forever in Scotland and, politically speaking, more malleable. Keep them uneducated, unemployed and on benefits and you have a voter for life.
32

Max Born,

05/02/2008 08:04:07
To all you who aspire to be part of the master race particularly;
#3 "Then why are they still here?" of whom are you asking the question?
Perhaps I am able to enlighten you, "they" are still here because there fate is not in hands of people like"you"who eat the Daily Mail for breakfast and swallow the BS hook line and sinker.

#15. Learn the difference between immigration and emigration.

#22. So asylum seekers are given Giro cheques are they? no I don,t think so, they are given food vouchers for a parltry amount.
33

chickpea,

East Lothian 05/02/2008 08:08:39
Oh great more Giro cheques for child Benifit on there way to Poland!!! No wonder the number of people emigrating has gone up. What about our kids who is going to employ them ...when they can get a bus load of Polish people put them up ten to a room in flats in Edinburgh and pay them low rates of pay as they are supplying accomodation Oh yes its a great country if you are coming from abroad. I see trouble in store for Scotland.Welcome to All.
34

Max Born,

05/02/2008 08:12:26
#2,3,7,11 (ad nausem) All Bile & Backside.
Awa hame son an polish yer jack boots and dust yer stick oan tash collection.
35

Max Born,

05/02/2008 08:14:11
#34
Whit feck has this story go to do with Poles?
36

ddmc,

05/02/2008 08:20:43
if you've got something to offer our society then let them in & start contributing, but what #5 says is true, if your here for benefits & big issue selling then we've got enough of our own indigenous wasters.
37

sam the god,

05/02/2008 08:25:12
Just kick all the asylum seekers out they have failed in the main criteria that being that you seek asylum in the first safe country from the place you are fleeing how many countries did these people pass through to get to this country? They are only after what they can sponge off the British people if we said that you would get nothing for a period of say 2 years you would soon see a mass exodus out of this country almost overnight.
38

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 08:29:14
Free from hate
free from fear
refugees
welcome here.
39

chickpea,

East lothian 05/02/2008 08:35:40
Oh yes Duncan from Edinburgh open the flood gates!! We will be living in Fear soon enough.... Nice idea but is it realistic/ I wonder......
40

mike3,

Midlands 05/02/2008 08:37:37
Doesn't seem many considering the numbers entering the UK.
41

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 08:45:16
#40 You are a product of media manipulation. Open your eyes to reality. Flood gates? This is a tightly controlled trickle. If you want to see a flood of refugees, look to Darfur, Congo, Zimbabwe; look to Egypt and Syria for the people displaced by our waging of war.

What a country this is. Our definition of poverty includes people obese on too much food with televisions and video games to play. Our definition of a crime wave is a media-inspired fear of crime while actual crime drops. And our definition of a flood of immigration is a few thousand desperate people, and even these we want to turn away.

What do they know of Scotland who only Scotland know.
42

Old Siggy,

Dunbar 05/02/2008 08:46:39
Bad news for the thousands of Scottish tax-payers who have already been languishing on council house waiting lists for years.
43

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 05/02/2008 08:53:25
You will need them to fill the ranks of Alexs Army
44

Spicey,

Glasgow 05/02/2008 08:59:37
Asylum: 50 families a week told they can stay in Scotland

FIFTY asylum seekers a week are being granted leave to remain in Scotland,

Which is it Michael - individuals or families? Make up your mind, or even better, find out the facts first and dont hedge your bets!
45

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 05/02/2008 09:09:43
Simple maths. 50 X 52 = 2600 per year. Assuming each family consists of 4 then 4 x 2600 = 10400. In ten years that figure will be at the very least 100,400, not allowing for increased number of children. Simple question. Will Scotland have the infrastructure to support this numbers in terms of health care, education, etc..? Nothing racist or anti anything intended here, just straight forward questions.
46

Number 6,

Germany 05/02/2008 09:10:29
As long as they are working and contributing to society
I see no problem. If previous goverments had not ignored Scotland's ever increasing armies of idle scum,
then maybe Scotland would not have so many job oppertunities available to outsiders. Our "Bad Back" Brigades and Regiments of benefit scroungers, are not only a national disgrace but shamefull to boot.
47

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 09:14:07
#46 Yes, because every one of them will be contributing taxes which will pay for public services.

The people who are living fraudulently off sickness benefit or permanently unemployed or unemployable come almost entirely from the ranks of indigenous Scots. If you are genuinely concerned about paying for health, education and welfare you would be campaigning for more immigrants, because with every new hard worker we are better able to pay for our existing set of workshy wasters.
48

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow belongs to all of us 05/02/2008 09:28:02
#5...... Your comment is typical of the racism and bigotry which can be heard at every home game at Ibrox park. GROW UP! and come into the 21st century.We must try and educate people like you,it is our only hope for the future of our country,and when I say "our country"I mean SCOTLAND, not Britain.
49

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow belongs to all of us including the immigra 05/02/2008 09:34:43
#34....."I see trouble in store for Scotland" Yes indeed.As long as there are knuckle headed bigots like you in Scotland,"there will be trouble"
50

Farky,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 09:36:42
The UK government has clearly lost control of immigration. We should be sending as many of these people home unless it's almost impossible to do so. Call me a racist, but there is just too many people trying to settle in Scotland/UK. I just wonder where this country is heading sometimes.
51

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 09:41:20
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at some of the comments on here. When ever I see a story on immigration or assylum on here I wince at the thought of more biggoted, racist and xenophobic tripe being posted by some readers. "Stealing our jobs" "Go back to where you came from" "We're being invaded!". Utter nonsense. Maybe if our own lay-about workshy dole scroungers got off their backsides and got jobs, so many people wouldn't come here. Ever think about that? These people wouldn't come here if they couldn't find some kind of work would they?

Just think if the shoe was on the other foot and you were fleeing persecution here, only to be told by the country you tried to find safety in "we don't like your kind round here. Get lost". Put the Daily Biggot down and think about what you would do if in the same situation as these people.
52

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow belongs to all of us 05/02/2008 09:42:31
#36.......34 is having a go at the Poles because his bigoted and racist mind directs him thus.For years he has probably been spouting hate against the Irish and Catholics in general.Now his mind tells him that these new victims are also followers of the Catholic faith,so this ignites the bigotry in him,thus his rant.
53

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 09:44:06
#51 Lost control of immigration? On what possible evidence do you base that assertion? Too many people trying to settle? Scotland's population would be in freefall without immigration.

We NEED immigrants in this country. Our economy is reliant on a steady influx. These people are not taking jobs from Scots, they are taking jobs that Scots will not do, and filling roles that there aren't enough Scots to fill, and they are contributing to our prosperity at the same time.
54

Hunky Dorey,

05/02/2008 09:45:51
#52 Captainofedinburgh..........Excellent post!
55

Miss H,

05/02/2008 09:51:30
I don't think it is a coincidence that there is an SNP Government in power and hey presto we finally see a vastly speeded up processing of legacy cases and news that Dungavel is set to close...

It looks as though McConnell was being slightly disingenuous arguing that his hands were tied.
56

Miss H,

05/02/2008 09:56:46
54 The UK government has lost control of immigration and asylum Duncan. That is precisely why we have families who have been waiting over TEN YEARS in many cases for a decision and in the meantime left in a state of limbo and not allowed to work. That is a preposterous state of affairs and the sooner the administration of asylum and immigration is devolved the better.

I have spoken to some Glasgow SNP MSPs about this at length. They tell me that Home Office officials refuse to deal with MSPs because asylum is reserved. Yet at the same time it is often MSPs that people approach with their immigration and asylum problems as, with the honourable exception of Mohammed Sarwar, many Glasgow MPs will take nothing to do with asylum cases.
57

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:05:19
#57 You never fail to do it do you?

I responded to someone who said that the government had lost control of IMMIGRATION by asking on what possible evidence one could base the claim that the government has lost control of IMMIGRATION.

You come along and tell me that the government has lost control of immigration AND ASYLUM and go on to detail the problems that the government is having with processing ASYLUM claims.

Do you see the problem, Miss H? Do I need to spell it out?

You do this every time, and it is very tiring. Stop extending the argument into areas where you have a pre-canned political soundbite, and start reading what is actually being said and responding to it.
58

\seasider,

Saltcoats 05/02/2008 10:11:09
If I was seeking asylum from 'oppressive regime' etc. I would head across the first friendly border. This does not seem to be the case with a great many of them who arrive in Britain having bypassed many friendly countries even crossed continents to home in on our benevolent system. Get a grip Brown and shut the gates.
59

chickpea,

East Lothian 05/02/2008 10:12:46
Hunky Dorey....I dont think so there is nothing Hunky Dorey about you.....What the hell has this got to do with Catholics and Irish .....and I am a she not a He.Dont support a football team.... have no problems with either religion which you obviously do....stop talking tripe man!
60

Vancouver,

North Vancouver 05/02/2008 10:15:39
You Goody, Goody Guys will wish they were kept out after you have a bomb on your door step.
All we Christian Countries are doing is creating a problem for our Great, Great Grandchildren, "CIVIL WAR" in the future.
61

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:17:16
#59 Where do you learn these lies from? The proportion of asylum seekers who come here compared to those who do end up languishing in the next state is a hundredth of a percent of the total. I say again, what do they know of Scotland who only Scotland know?
62

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:18:37
#61 Those who seek to define a country by a religion do more damage than those who seek to help those who can be helped.
63

\seasider,

Saltcoats 05/02/2008 10:25:12
#63
Lies? my statement was a 'good many of them',Going by official figures the immigrants that come here are in six figures. Good job we dont get them all then.
64

Bewildered,

Glasgow 05/02/2008 10:28:22
The first comment was encouraging but sadly many after that became very depressing, often wholly in appropriate, and frequently mis-informed.
65

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:31:10
#66 Actually it was "a great many of them".

Is that a phrase you typically use to mean a fraction of a percent of a total?

Is your suggestion that Britain has no responsibility under the UN convention on refugees, of which we were not only a signatory in 1951 but an architect? You think we have no responsibility even for the refugees of wars which we have waged, and continue to wage? Do you have any decency, any humanity at all?
66

Sheuchend,

NZ 05/02/2008 10:34:26
TV and the press over here (NZ) are full of the travails of refugees in England. Scotland seems to be slipping below the intolerance radar.

So think. You have time.
We don't know who inhabited the land that's now Scotland 4000 years back. But those who occupy it now are descended from immigrant races - Celt, Viking, Saxon, Pakistani, Pole...

You're 100% a nation of immigrants. Even your language and principal religion are imports. Sure, some have been around a long time and others less, but does that matter?

Acceptance does matter. So does reputation.

Yours.
67

JayDeeTee,

05/02/2008 10:34:29
What is tiring is to keep reading posts from these pro-immigration people who gripe because we, the indigenous people of this country, have a nerve to compain about the situation. Just as you seem to have a right to fight the cause of these people we have a right to complain about them coming here. If people who are "illegal immigrants" are allowed to suddenly become "legal" in a country they have found their way to after passing through many safe havens on the way here, what message does that send out to other would-be "immigrants"? Well, the message is clear. Come to Scotland, doesn't matter if you are legal or not, just stay here illegally and you will get your way in the end. Meanwhile, the people who have lived and worked here for generations see the education, helth and welfare systems crumbling about them under the stress of all this. And you pro-immigration people have the nerve to shout us down when we complain!! Shame on you. We are not racists we are simply stating a bleeding obvious fact. Once you slacken the rules on immigration, more will come. The more that come, the more our social services are under pressure eyc etc. Where does the spiral end??
68

Allan(handofgod137),

05/02/2008 10:39:15
If they were refused, then kick them out asap, no mattere how many "anchor babies" they've had.
69

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:39:35
#74 You are labouring under several misapprehensions.

1. You and I are not indigenous people of Scotland. As #73 neatly describes, we are ALL immigrants. The only argument is about when we arrived.

2. The vast majority of immigrants will work when permitted to; they are therefore an asset to our social services etc., because they are paying taxes to fund them. The strains on our social services come from people who have lived here for generations who are living off fraudulent sickness benefits or on unemployment benefit despite there being jobs available.

3. The spiral has to end with you educating yourself about the reality, and becoming part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
70

Allan(handofgod137),

05/02/2008 10:41:29
#74 It ends when people wake up to the truth and start voting BNP, as they appear to be the only political party in this country prepared to put an end to the hoards of scropungers descending on our country.
71

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:44:27
#78 Nonsense. They are the only party spreading lies and disinformation about immigration and then proposing simple answers which appear to solve these illusory problems.

What you have to face is that if you have been duped by them, you have been stupid. It's not to late to educate yourself about the truth. Education will rid us of the scourge of the BNP.
72

\seasider,

Saltcoats 05/02/2008 10:45:42
#71
"A great many of them", I stand corrected, the fraction of a percent you talk of is,never the less, far in excess of what this country can do with.As far as 'decency and humanity' goes, I suggest (if you feel so strongly) that you adopt some of them. As to Britain's responsibilities under the UN convention, I think we have done more than our share.
73

Miss H,

05/02/2008 10:48:02
Duncan - they have lost control of asylum and they have lost control of immigration. Ask any immigration lawyer or indeed any Glasgow MSP. They will have dozens of tales to tell you of the Home Office. John Reid described the Home Office as not fit for purpose and he was dead right. It is the worst run department in government and as I said the sooner the Scottish Government takes control of both immigration and asylum the better it will be for us all. Another way of looking at it, if you don’t like the idea of the Scottish Government taking on additional powers, is that by removing the administration of asylum and immigration in Scotland you could help to ease the pressure on the Home Office.
74

Miss H,

05/02/2008 10:48:03
Duncan - they have lost control of asylum and they have lost control of immigration. Ask any immigration lawyer or indeed any Glasgow MSP. They will have dozens of tales to tell you of the Home Office. John Reid described the Home Office as not fit for purpose and he was dead right. It is the worst run department in government and as I said the sooner the Scottish Government takes control of both immigration and asylum the better it will be for us all. Another way of looking at it, if you don’t like the idea of the Scottish Government taking on additional powers, is that by removing the administration of asylum and immigration in Scotland you could help to ease the pressure on the Home Office.
75

Allan(handofgod137),

05/02/2008 10:48:21
#80 Spoken like a true leftist sheep. It's you who needs to educate yourself, perhaps you should find out how many pensioners who've worked and paid taxes all their lives could get the support to carry on living in their own homes for the cost of feeding, housing and educating a family of economic migrants.
76

Allan(handofgod137),

05/02/2008 10:50:06
Ohy and Duncan, was Nick Griffen lying when he said that terror attacks in our cities would be carried out by British born muslims?
77

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:52:48
#83 How hard is this to understand? Economic migrants pay taxes too. If your problem is with people on benefit, then you need to face the fact that the vast majority of them are not recent immigrants, but Scots who consider a dole-based life with perks based on criminality as their birthright.
78

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 10:53:41
#84 Oh well in that case he must be right about everything.
79

\seasider,

Saltcoats 05/02/2008 10:54:25
#83
I think you have got my posting confused with#79?
80

Sheuchend,

NZ 05/02/2008 10:56:15
Thanks, #78 for a brilliant new profanity: scropungers.

I'll use it as often as I can, once I've figured out what it means.

Accept that travel and migration have been the way of humanity for as long as we've been able to track the history of the species. It's not going to stop now.

So what stays?

Languages for one. Historically, Scotland has three: Scots, Gaelic and English. Are you (personally) caring for them by learning them?

Religion for another, though this evolves. Are you caring for your religious viewpoint?

For in eighty years, nobody writing here will be around. What will?
81

Miss H,

05/02/2008 11:01:32
83 And perhaps you should work out how much it costs to support pensioners to carry on living in their own homes and then tell us why we don't need to keep up the numbers of working aged people to pay for it.

If you want to close the door on economic migration you should also face the reality of what that means -because when you have a falling number of working aged people and a rising number of pensioners something will have to give. Free personal care? Forget it. You would be lucky to get a state pension in your brave new world.
82

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 11:01:52
#74

Vote BNP eh? And what should we do with the immigrants etc already here then? Chuck them out or make them walk around with special badges identifying them as migrants? This country was built on, and will continue to be built on, immigration. Whether they be French, Irish, Nordic or whatever. And what about migrants who have lived here longer than some of the posters have no doubt been alive for? If we apply the logic of some of the posters on here, these people are more entitled to live here than them!

If people want to come and live and work in this country and can contribute something usefull to us then they are more than welcome as far as I'm concerned. As I said on my earlier post, our biggest problems stem from OUR OWN scroungers who would rather claim dole than get a job. And Asylum Seekers CANNOT claim benefits either. They receive food and clothing vouchers instead and are prevented from working until their claims are processed.
83

wordsworth,

05/02/2008 11:08:55
Look on the positive side,in a few years your population may have doubled,then you an play with the big boys
84

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 11:12:23
#83

Do you have any idea of the stupidity of what you just wrote? ECONOMIC migrants come here to work. Therefore pay taxes. Which go towards paying for the pensioners you are harping on about. Really shows up the level of intelligence of BNP voters.
85

Sheuchend,

NZ 05/02/2008 11:16:08

You're wrong, Captainofedinburgh.

BNP voters don't require a level of intelligence.
Thought just clouds the issue.
86

\seasider,

Saltcoats 05/02/2008 11:27:27
#91
So where does the cost of the 'food vouchers,clothing vouchers, housing,social helpers & processors etc. come from? Do they pay for this themselves or is there some magical fund?
87

JayDeeTee,

05/02/2008 11:28:18
#91. I never said to vote BNP. Read my post again my friend. There is no mention of this organisation. You are obviously too keen to read bad thoughts into my words simply because I have a different view from you.

#77. Duncan. 1.Stop being a twit mate. People who have lived here for centuries have a right to qualify as "indigenous" so stop being pedantic.
2. Yes these people may work and pay taxes but you are missing the point I was making. These people are supposed to be here "illegally" so if you suddenly make illegal people legal, then the floodgates open - surely!! And what nobody seems to be prepared to answer is when is enough enough? Do we have 100,000 immigrants? Or should we have a few hundred thousand? A million? Two million? Because once you take away the "illegality" of being here, it becomes legal and you cannot stop it.
3. The spiral has to end with me educating myself? What shoud I learn then? Ah...I should learn to have the same opinion as you..is that it?
88

Allan(handofgod137),

05/02/2008 11:28:51
#93 Many economic migrants work in the black economy, paying no income tax and national insurance, they also help to keep the number of people looking for jobs greater than the number of jobs available, thus depressingf wages and forcing people to rely on state aid.
#94 at least they don't sprout the same old personal insults so beloved of the leftists.
89

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 11:29:02
#82 Miss H do you believe everything John Reid says, or just the things that help your argument of the moment?

No wonder the idiots don't understand the difference between economic migration and asylum seeking when people who have the intelligence to explain it - such as yourself - instead use the confusion between them as an opportunity for political spin.
90

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 11:31:51
#96 Without stooping to personal insults, mate, please explain why 'People who have lived here for centuries have a right to qualify as "indigenous"'.

You are again conflating the issue of asylum - in which we have a problem of being unable to process people effectively - and immigration - in which we have an opportunity to attract the workforce we need to power our economy. Please do yourself a favour and learn the difference.
91

Anthony,

Glasgow 05/02/2008 11:35:14
Living in an area with a high proportion of asylum seekers/refugees, I am embarrassed. Embarrased by the utter selfishness of people like me, and those living in communities such as mine. Those supporting amnesties for asylum seekers, and who come from predominantly middle class areas, bring all the advantages of massive numbers of asylum seekers into our communities, giving many refugee status on the flimsiest of evidence, and take no advantages for themselves. Indeed, in their spirit of utter self-sacrifice, they take care to always ensure themselves and their families never share in this wonderful project, which they so kindly give to the rest of us.

This cannot continue. They too must be allowed to share in the advantages they expouse. Coaches of asylum seeker/refugee children, many who do not speak English, should be bused into private schools, and other schools in more prosperous areas. 'GP' buses also should take them into these areas for treatment. Community points should be set up in these areas too, where groups can 'hang out', and introduce their families, to the wonders of foreign cultures on their doorstep. They too can share in the pleasures of refugees boasting of how they return on their holidays, to countrys they have supposedly fled in fear of persecution. I could go on. But let's be selfish no more. Let's share the 'advantages'.
92

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 11:35:38
#97 Do you have even one single iota of empirical evidence for any of those statements, or are they, as they appear, nothing more than a set of prejudices?

I mean, in my experience, hard evidence of the "black economy" is notoriously difficult to find. Have you got some? Have you been able to break down participation in the black economy into racial groups and immigrant status?

The only people I know participating in the black economy are white Scots. But that is just anecdotal evidence. I look forward to your hard empirical stuff.

Oh and, by the way, there are more jobs available in Scotland today than people looking for work. Sorry if that bursts another of your bubbles.
93

Encephalon,

05/02/2008 11:38:18
Economic migrants come here in a bid to improve their lot -I dont blame them for trying- but the strain on our already stretched infrastructure is too much. Moreover they serve as a cheap labour pool bringing down the wages of indigenous people -usually those at the poorest margins of the labour market. Real answer to any perceived labour shortage is to incentivise and develop our own people- especially those caught in the benefits trap and reluctant to take jobs.

The other issue is assimilation-the likes of "Duncan" better not come crying after the implementation of Sharia law in about another generation and they come down hard eg on homo-sexuals-(ooh misses)-they will discover the hard way that not all cultures are as tolerant as our own white Judo-Christian one WAS!
94

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

05/02/2008 11:40:29
Not getting too involved. Good luck to Duncan though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

It's easy to forget that there are real problems in other countries and there are such things as asylum seekers when youre biggest problem is Western apathy and poverty of spirit.
95

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

05/02/2008 11:42:14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rusesabagina
96

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/02/2008 11:49:54
#103 Two interesting points. In response to your first, may I ask: what is the difference in incentive between a Scot "caught in the ben