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Athletes play down prospect of a Scottish Olympic team

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Published Date: 26 August 2008
TWO more top Scottish Olympians have joined triple gold-medal winner Chris Hoy in warning against calls for a separate team for Scotland at the Olympics.
Sprinter Allan Wells, who won the 100m in Moscow in 1980, said Scotland would suffer without the coaches, facilities and resources provided by Team GB.

He said a lot of investment and work would be needed over a considerable period if a Scottish
team were ever going to be able to cope on their own at the Olympics.

And Craig MacLean, a former team-mate of Hoy's, said he thought creating a Scottish-only team would be "nonsense" and a "step backward".

Their comments come as a major blow to the Nationalists who want to see Scotland fielding its own Olympic team,

a view echoed by Sir Sean Connery, who said at an event at the Book Festival yesterday that he shared that aim.

On Sunday, Hoy blasted plans for Scotland to go it alone as "ridiculous", saying he would not have won three gold medals had he not been part of a British team.

The cyclist, Scotland's most successful Olympian, returned to Britain yesterday and reiterated his support for Team GB.

He said he was "a proud Scot and a very proud Brit as well", stressing the two identities were not mutually exclusive.

The success of Scots athletes in Beijing at a time when there is a Nationalist government in Edinburgh has forced the issue of Olympic representation to the top of the political and sporting agendas.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has made clear he would like to see a Scottish team at the Olympics, because he feels that would give more Scots the chance to compete at the highest level.

This view was reinforced by Sir Sean, who said:

"Scotland should always be a stand- alone nation at whatever, I believe."

That view is not shared by the nation's top Olympians, however.

Wells told The Scotsman: "We need to be part of the British team at the moment, because that is where all the coaches are, the facilities and the money.

"We would have to be an independent country for the International Olympic Committee to acknowledge us as a nation.

"If Scotland was to become independent, and we were to have our own Olympic team, then we would need those facilities in place in order to compete. I believe an investigation has to be started now, and money put aside now, to prepare for that eventuality.

"But there is something else as well I still have a problem with. A lot of our medals were won in team events. We are strong in those team events because we compete as a British team.

"If we go independent as a nation in the Olympics, then that part will be lost."

MacLean, who competed at the 2000 and 2004 Olympics, said: "I think the idea (of a Scottish Olympic team] is nonsense, to be honest. I don't think it would be a good idea.

"That would be a step backwards. While we might come back with one or two medals, it is far better to be part of something bigger, like Team GB."

Speaking at a press conference near Heathrow Airport after the British team arrived back from China, Hoy said: "I've been very proud to represent Scotland at the Commonwealth Games, and that is something I will always treasure and hopefully (I'll] compete again in future years."

But today, we are here to celebrate the British team. Scotland is part of Britain – they are not mutually exclusive."

He went on: "I am a proud Scot and a very proud Brit as well. In terms of Scotland becoming an Olympic nation by itself, I think there needs to be a lot more investment up there in terms of facilities, but today is about the British team really, and we are here to celebrate that."

The SNP's political opponents also intervened to criticise the Scottish Government over the Olympic issue.

Gavin Brown, for the Tories, said: "Team GB has had a remarkable Games and made us extremely proud. As an integral part of Team GB, Scottish athletes made an enormous contribution to the medal haul, and once again we punched above our weight.

"Now is the time for us to congratulate them all, but, instead, Alex Salmond is abusing the successful performances of Scotland's athletes to push his own separatist agenda. He should listen carefully to what the athletes themselves are saying. They, like the vast majority of Scots, are proud to be both Scottish and British."

Andy Kerr, the Labour leadership hopeful, said: "The SNP are so narrow-minded they cannot celebrate the success of Scots in the GB team. They can't cope with the fact that they are proud Scots and proud Brits.

"We must protect our athletes by ending this nonsense of a separate Scottish team for the Olympics. Let us celebrate the GB Olympic team and the Scottish Commonwealth team."

A spokesman for Mr Salmond claimed Hoy had not actually spoken against a Scottish team in the future, just against one now because of the lack of facilities.

He said: "We are putting in the investment in new facilities, including a new national velodrome in Glasgow, which will raise our ambition as a country and allow athletes to prepare properly."

Hoy also turned his fire on the City of Edinburgh Council's plans to demolish the velodrome at Meadowbank, leaving Scotland without a proper cycling facility until one is built in Glasgow in time for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

He said: "The bottom line is that I wouldn't be sitting here with three gold medals, or any gold medals, around my neck if there hadn't been a facility in Edinburgh when I was 13, 14 years of age.

"Obviously, there is a new track being built for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, but to demolish a track in Edinburgh means there is a whole crop of young riders who are never going to get the chance to try out the sport.

"It's very short-sighted, I think, but hopefully there can be some pressure put on them (the council] as a result of the success of the cycling team and the Olympic team as a whole."

Millions watch Beijing bow out and London raise 2012 curtain

MILLIONS of viewers tuned in to watch Beijing's handover to London, the BBC said yesterday.

The closing ceremony of the Olympics was seen by 6.8 million people on Sunday afternoon, followed by five million tuning into the 2012 party outside Buckingham Palace in London.

A BBC spokesman described it as a "substantial amount" of viewers for a Sunday afternoon.

Formally ending the Olympics, China put on a show of flying drummers, guns shooting confetti into the stands and gymnasts bouncing on stilts.

Footballer David Beckham, pop singer Leona Lewis and rock star Jimmy Page led London's eight-minute slot in the proceedings.

After the national anthem, sung by the National Youth Theatre, and the official handover, London's chance to impress the world began. Where Beijing relied on vast numbers of participants, London used fame and popular culture.

It started with a red double-decker bus driving around the track, pursued by gold medal-winning cyclists Chris Hoy, Victoria Pendleton and Jamie Staff, and being surrounded by dancers when it halted.

Tayyiba Dudhwala, a ten-year-old girl from east London, chosen in a Blue Peter competition, came out of the bus to receive a football from another girl, Erika Tham.

Lewis emerged from the roof on a rising column dressed in gold and singing an R'n'B aria. As the music reached a crescendo, Page came out on a rising stage with a guitar.

After a short pause, the unmistakable first riffs of Whole Lotta Love blasted out, and Lewis began singing.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 August 2008 8:54 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: London Olympics 2012
 
1

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 00:37:05
"Andy Kerr, the Labour leadership hopeful, said: "The SNP are so narrow-minded they cannot celebrate the success of Scots in the GB team. They can't cope with the fact that they are proud Scots and proud Brits."

The convenience of supposed dual nationality (albeit always with British superiority) is coming to an end. Folks are going to have to make a decision. My bet is the fast cyclist will come on board. Andy Kerr can go where the hell he wants.
2

Guga II,

Rockall 26/08/2008 00:37:18
Scotland can, and should field its own team for the next Olympics. We may not win too many medals to start with, but that is no reason to act like fearful children, scared of the dark and running to mummy.

Our athletes should have some pride in representing their own country, not the colonial power. The trouble is though that most of the professional athletes are more interested in lining their own pockets than they are in representing their own country.

Like too many people in Scotland, they are bought and sold for English gold, sic a parcel of rogues in a nation.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 00:44:44
Cue these athletes being described as traitors, unpatriotic, stupid, corrupt, money-motivated, confused, and - last gasp - misreported.

Guga has already made a start - "bought and sold for English gold."

4

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 26/08/2008 00:51:28
Typical hackneyed cliches from the guano producer at #3 the poet he quotes also said
" O, let us not, like snarling tykes,
In wrangling be divided,
Till, slap! come in a unco loun,
And wi' a rung decide it!
Be Britain still to Britain true,
Amang oursels united! "
For never but by British hands
Maun British wrangs be righted!
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 01:24:40
I think an email must have been sent to Guga and others from Cybernat Central to "lay off our boys!"
6

The Pict.,

Canada 26/08/2008 01:25:55
It's obvious that the athletes words or at any rate the MEANING are being twisted. What I read is that SCOTLAND does not have the proper TRAINING facilities to field a competitive team. Why is that??

Now for the 'cap in hand' or 'canny dae that' people I say 'YES WE CAN'. Stop being a bunch of gutless, spineless individuals.

The Jamaican BOLT trained in Jamaica where they have the same issue. Now he was a looser right?

So Scotland are incapable of running their own first clase training facilities. Really! WHY? WHY?
Perhaps one of you gutless ' canny dae that' types can explaint that.

Slainte mhath.
7

Jockdogma,

Ediinburgh 26/08/2008 01:34:36
As a nation our ability to cut our own throat is unbelieveable! I think Hoy was merely making the point that his efforts were enhanced by the resources offered by Team GB. I am alarmed by some of the comments on these threads just congratulate the guy & move on. As and when Scotland does become independent what are you all going to find to carp on about?
8

TommyKaye,

UK 26/08/2008 01:42:33
Heroes?

FUNNY HOW GORDON BROWN CAN MAKE HIMSELF SUDDENLY AVAILABLE TO SLAP ON THE AMBRE SOLAIRE AND BASK IN THE GLOW FROM THE TEAM GB OLYMPIC PERFORMANCE

- BUT -

CANNOT TURN UP TO PAY HIS RESPECTS WHEN THE COFFINS FLY IN FROM IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN - FUNNY THAT DONT YOU THINK FOR A MAN WHO WROTE A BOOK ON HEROES AND COURAGE AND SAID THERE WOULD BE NO MORE SPIN - HEROES?

RIDING A BIKE A HERO ?
9

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 26/08/2008 01:54:19
10, Spot on!
10

Brian Hill,

26/08/2008 01:58:37
'What I read is that SCOTLAND does not have the proper TRAINING facilities to field a competitive team'. THE PICT

My reading also Pict, Hoy and co are not against a Scottish Olympic Team in principal they are only expressing the (rather obvious) point that Scotland would need more cash and new sports facilities.

As these facilities to appear resistance will weaken. Of course, if we vote YES in 2010 the a Scottish team is inevitable in 2012.
11

Edward,

26/08/2008 02:03:14
I find it really amazing that the media have conveniently forgotten about the 2010 Commonwealth Games. Why is this? Perhaps that its not convenient for the Westminster Government in their hour of basking in others glory, being wrapped up in the Union flag. Well in just under 2 years we will have the 2010 Commonwealth Games, and guess what, no 'Team GB'!

But according to Allan Wells, he said Scotland would suffer without the coaches, facilities and resources that a Team GB provides, so by this reckoning we may as well not bother going to the Commonwealth Games as we simply cant cut it as we just dont have the coaches,facilities and resources !
Or Chris Hoy , who (aledgedly) blasted plans for Scotland to go it alone as "ridiculous", saying he would not have won three gold medals had he not been part of a British team. So by this token, he is stating that as part of a Scottish team with the same investment and resources (which Scotland should have) would not win anything!
Chris Hoy's remarks also highlighted another fact and that is that the Labour Government in London and the previous Labour administration in Scotland failed to invest in Sports in Scotland. In fact I would state that the Westminster Government have been guilty of making sure there is full and proper investment in England ober an above any consideration for the other nations of the United Kingdom, which could be called engineering the talent pool in favour of England. Which is why the vast majority of those in 'Team GB' are English, and those that are not English have to live and train in England (such as Chris Hoy) in order to advance them selves in sport!
12

PoI2,

26/08/2008 02:05:26
#12

That thought occurred to me also.
13

Traquir , Alba,

26/08/2008 02:08:31
From the Scottish athletes their comments are sadly
quite realistic :

"a lot of investment and work would be needed over a considerable period if a Scottish
team were ever going to be able to cope on their own at the Olympics"

This is a sad statement of fact the England and
particularly the South East is getting a massively
disproportionate level of funding. This diversion
of funds needs to be reversed as soon as possible.

From an Economic Impact analysis of the London
Olympics (see tinyurl.com/6my6gp ) we have :

"The implication of this is that for the rest of the UK (excluding London), London 2012 will have a negative
impact on GDP of c.£4 billion caused by the displacement of resources and activities towards London."

"A change in the number of businesses created is also
forecast and implies a considerable negative impact to
the rest of the UK (excluding London) resulting
from business closure or displacement towards the
London economy."

"Again this implies a huge negative effect on jobs in the rest of the UK (excluding London)"

And this report was before the massive and obscene
cost over runs from the original estimate of
£4 billion to now at least £14 billion see - tinyurl.com/6p43bv

Additionally £184 million has been taken from the Scottish lottery . see - tinyurl.com/6pyd43

The Scottish contribution to this "investment"
in the British Capital is all money that could
have been used to invest in facilities for
sports in Scotland.
14

Traquir , Alba,

26/08/2008 02:13:36
Cost of Manchester Velodrome without which
Scotland would have won no golds we are told -

£20 million

Cost of London Olympics brand new 2012 Velodrome
original estimate - £40 million
current estimate - £80 million

Monies taken from the Scottish Lottery to
fund the obscenely over budget London Olympics
£184 million
see - tinyurl.com/6pyd43

So basically almost NINE Manchester Velodromes
from the Scottish Lottery Funding alone.

This is just become absolutely scandalous and
everybody knows it is going to be much worse
in terms of even more over-budgeting. In fact
London's complete inability to keep even
remotely to budget is well documented - they
basically just squander their tributes from
their lesser provinces as if it is their
god given right.

"The average overrun in London was 131.5
per cent, almost four times higher than the national average overrun of 33.7 per cent and
making London the worst performing region in the country."

see - tinyurl.com/4swoxk

So London will end up with massive investments
in her infrastructure and has gone massively
over budget with no penalty whatsoever. Scotland
will continue to "invest" millions in this
latest British White Elephant instead of Scots
having the say to decide alternate real investments
we could be using these millions for such
as health care, real business investments,
education,...

These Union "dividends" are getting worse by
the day, no wonder our Scottish athletes (all of
which we should be very proud of), have significant
concerns that Scotland is too facility poor
to even host her own Olympic team. This is
a disgraceful state of affairs and the blame
should not be directed at the athletes but rather
at the legacy Scotland has inherited from
this rotting Union.

Saor Alba
15

Edward,

26/08/2008 02:16:18
Just a note as regards the demolition of the Velodrome in Edinburgh
This appears to have been on the cards long before the last elections as the Save Meadowbank Campaign (SMC) was formed in February 2007 (http://cyclingedinburgh.wordpress.com/2007/05/19/save-meadowbank-velodrome/)
16

Andrew D,

bne 26/08/2008 02:29:28
Both Hoy and Wells have said that Scotland doesn't have the facilities so trying to go alone in sport just now would hurt. They haven't said, they are against it in principle. (Though the other one appears to)

Either way, if and when Scotland becomes independant the point will be moot.
17

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 26/08/2008 02:53:27
Scotland sends a team to the Commonwealth Games and the Youth Games every two years with funding from Sports Scotland which is funded by the Scottish Government. At the Melbourne gaves we won 11 golds and was 6th in the medal rankings. England won 36 golds. Scotland is about one tenth of the population of England. We should on population have got about 4 golds if we had matched England. we had 3 times their success. To say we have not the athletes to compete at a world level or the resources or facilities to support them is patently untrue. even under the previous executive we had success. I'm sure that in Delhi our sportsmen and women will continue to do us proud. Congratulations to all who competed in Team GB.
18

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 26/08/2008 03:48:02
Hoys comments are a disgrace. He has been in the enemys camp for too long and has lost his marbles, far less his NATIONALITY WHICH IS SCOTTISH. He should hand the medals back to his beloved country of england. When SCOTLAND becomes INDEPENDENT in 2009, what is hoy going to do then??????
19

Royster,

26/08/2008 04:01:58
I see the plastic jocks are out in force.
20

John PM,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 04:15:22
The unionist attitude towards any suggestion of a Scottish team shows they have no pride in their own country. This negative carping explains their continuing well deserved drop in the opinion polls.

Hoy is entitled to his views but many see the British identity as a barrier to future success and to normal representation on the world stage. The athletes quoted have their view but I am sure there will be others who hold a different one.

Sadly we don't appear to have any yet who like Ireland would have the courage to climb a flag pole and remove the union jack and replace it with their own flag!

Support for 'team GB' no doubt helps selection prospects in the current set up. An independent team Scotland would create a lot of national pride however but it looks like we will need to vote for independence to get it.

We will see our own team in action in 2010 which coincides with the referendum year and in 2012 we will hopefully be independent so next time we will probably have our own recognised team anyway.
21

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 26/08/2008 04:24:19
LOL

How formulaic is the Scotsman's reporting?

This story got a reaction from the usual unionist trolls yesterday taking it's twisted quotes as gospel.

So what do the Scotsman journos do - run the storyy again with a tweak or two.

Lets just clarify Hoys position - he has critised the facilities in Scotland (the result of 'investment' by previous administrations) saying that as is he could not have succeeded with these facilities.

No story here, just spin and bull$hit, as usual.
22

Alan Reid,

NZ 26/08/2008 04:24:43
The question I would like to ask all the Scottish athletes is: IF there was world class training, coaching, and competing facilities in Scotland, would they then be more enthusiastic about living, training, competing in Scotland?

And if all the good training, coaching, and competing facilities is in England, then why is that? And where did they get all the money to pay for these facilities?
Why do we not have them in Scotland????? Why? Why?

23

Alan Reid,

NZ 26/08/2008 04:25:37
Remember Peter Nicol?
24

Anne,

Eaglesham 26/08/2008 06:25:52
Nicol abandoned his national identity for money, didn't he?
25

Boy Wonder,

26/08/2008 07:12:50
So they're all content to be Team Ying Guo are they??

Yin Guo did not mean Great Britain. It translates as England ... and the Saltire was banned too! Now there's racism at work!

We need to raise Scottish Athletics profile higher so that our athletes want to represent Scotland!
26

Louis Catorze,

26/08/2008 07:26:52
Team GB? Shurely shome mishtake?

UK...no?
27

common sense voice,

26/08/2008 07:36:12
we let sports "stars" and pop "stars" have a lot of say these day.... kiddies are interested in what they have to say.... doesn't mean we have to act on anything however
28

McMillar,

Fife 26/08/2008 07:42:15
Well done team GB and well done Chris Hoy. I’m delighted we have this arrangement and it gives our athletes the chance to compete with the best when we have real chances to win. It would seem the ‘games’ really start after the Olympics. The nationalist rally cry is becoming a bit dull and repetitive. They are ding a good (much better!) job at running Scotland and have tackled some big issues. However, this just makes it all sound small minded again. As soon as we have independence there will be the same again with infighting…..independence for Fife and all that.
29

It's me!,

26/08/2008 07:57:50
Does this mean Scottish athletes who will represent Scotland do not have the correct facilities to train for the 2010 Commonwealth games?
30

donald,

glasgow 26/08/2008 08:07:31
You can always tell when Hamish's name will succeed his bylines.
31

eric,

26/08/2008 08:09:49
More folks are into politics than sport .The athletes will have a vote for independence just like most folks.
32

Melly,

Cuckfield 26/08/2008 08:10:23
Are we saying there NO centres of sporting excellence in Scotland ? NOT ONE ? How many sporting disciplines are there ? the assumption must be that they are all in England ? Was it only the English who paid for these centres or did we Scottish, Welsh and N. Ireland mugs cough up once again ? The union dividend sure works for one of the four nations, and it isn`t Scotland.
#35 Rulebusters. Time for your medication and back to bed.
33

drunken proffet,

Tassy 26/08/2008 08:19:52
It is not too difficult to work out. I reckon you should form a federation and make the London establishment one of the states. OK maybe a bum idea but it would solve a few problems. I mean at present it is London's oil. A seat of government up in the Midlands on a main train line. Bomb proof shelters and cheap housing. You cannot lose.
34

A Scott,

Glasgow 26/08/2008 08:23:58
Wells has been saying that for years ..Him Robertosn , Hoy live and train in England and are now thoroughly anglosised....pity but there you are.
35

Jock E,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:34:00
I cannot believe some of the utter peurile, nasty,ignorant and unjust nonsense written by the same old prejudiced myopic contributors. Boring .......!!

#22 Scotindy. Your comments about Chris Hoy are drivel and offensive. Please stay in Los Angeles. You are denigrading a world-class athlete and first-class Scotsman. What World class contributions have you made to Scotland and Scottish life?

Manchester has the facilities because the Commonwealth games were held there. Glasgow will have the same after those games. Why was the Edinburgh Velofrome allowed to degenerate? Get a grip some you. You'll stand up straight when you balance the chips on both shoulders. No wonder so many great Scots leave our wonderful country?
36

The Tin Man,

26/08/2008 08:37:00
It is simple - athletics coaching can be added to the list of things that would be rented from the remainder of the UK by an independent Scottish government (Whilst we spend oil revenue re-creating organisations and infa-structure that already exist).
37

john z,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:49:39
How can we have a Scottish athletics team at the commonwealth games in a few years, but we can't have a Scottish team at the Olympics??? What these athletes have supposedly said, just doesn't add up.

Unless of course these athletes don't intend taking part in the commonwealth games??

Just so everyone knows the dirty game being played by Gordon Brown, it has been revealed today that MI5 have been planting stories on message boards and in the media to deliberately undermine muslim terrorists.

It is obvious they are doing the same to try to undermine the democratically elected Government of Scotland. Drip, drip, drip, the stories will come out, trying to delude the people of Scotland that Independence is bad, oil is running out (we produce more than kuwait) and English rule is good. Don't forget, MI5 in London is tasked with protecting and preserving the United Kingdom. It is not to preserve democracy for Scotland.

Don't believe me? check out the number of TV programmes that have been run about 'britain' since the SNP came to power. Media manipulation - that's how it's done, and that's how it was done in the 1970's. No wonder they won't let Scotland have its own broadcasting control via the Scottish parliament.
38

HJ,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:53:47
yet more discussion on whether we should have a Scottish olympic team but here are the facts -

1. those supportive of a scottish olympic team are Stewart Maxwell (who was probably picked last for every team at school), Alex Salmond (who i doubt even tried to play for a team) and Sean Connery (who claims to be dedicated to Team Scotland but was capped/knighted by Team GB and is trying to qualify via residency for Team Bahamas).

2. those opposed to a scottish olympic team are 4 times gold medalist Chris Hoy, 100m Gold medal winner Alan Wells, virtually every other major scottish sportsperson and probably nearly every other scot bar those who frequent pubs called the clansmen from 11am every day, think tartan is a nation dress and who believe Mel Gibson was a heroic scottish freedom fighter.

and before the cyber-nats start accusing me of hating scotland or putting us down, i am feircly patriotic and would always want to see scotland and scottish sportmen win. It's just i understand that, in olympic terms, and with the knock on benefits re the commonwealth games team, being part of a GB team gives scotland's sportsmen and women the best chance (thru the best funding, fascilities, coaching etc) of achieving that.

If Salmond et al want to politically point score on sports then do it by announcing new investment in scotland's sports infrastructure, or by halting the closure of the velodrome in Edinburgh (by the SNP-LibDem council). or is the nats' sports policy limited solely to corporate lunches and calls for a scottish olympic team?
39

HJ,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 08:55:18
ps. sorry for the dreadful spelling in the last email....i wasn't attempting doric!
40

Beergoggles,

England 26/08/2008 08:56:07
Why hark on and on and on about these matters? Scotland's referendum for independence will come soon enough and then both Scotland and England can joyfully go their seperate ways.
41

,

26/08/2008 08:56:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
42

Jung,

26/08/2008 09:03:05
#47

Scotland is probably allowed to have a separate team for the Commonwealth Games because it is still de facto a colony of England.
Well, at least it still seems like that!
43

Beergoggles,

England 26/08/2008 09:04:58
But I have no doubt that the constant derision of my country by some Scots will continue long after independence.
44

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:12:10
41 Macgillicuddy
Before you start ranting and blaming successive governments ask what has happened to the estimated £80 million committed to Sport Scotland from lottery funds over the years.
45

Calum10,

26/08/2008 09:31:49
Chris Hoy is a hypocrite.

Quote: "The bottom line is that I wouldn't be sitting here with three gold medals, or any gold medals, around my neck if there hadn't been a facility in Edinburgh when I was 13, 14 years of age."

Without Scotland being able to participate in and host the Commonweath games there would have been no velodrome in Edinburgh. Chris Hoy owes his career to Scotland being able to field a cycling team in international events.

If Chris Hoy is so enamoured by Manchester why doesn't he ride for England at the next Commonwealth Games. He shouldn't be allowed to ride for Scotland ever again.
46

Calum10,

26/08/2008 09:33:53
#45

78% of Scots support fielding a Scottish Olmpic team for the London 2012 Olympics.

47

John south of Soutra,

26/08/2008 09:39:13
Has Hamish nothing else to write about, he is doing this story to death, of course athletes will play down talk of a scottish team they will be thinking about their funding.
48

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 09:43:31
#50 Scotland is the last major colony, but also the critical one as far as UK is concerned. Otherwise known as an 'internal' colony, once Scotland goes, the UK goes. That is why for some like Broon and others in dark shadows (see #44) it may be a de-colonisation too far. Remember his words - "we will do anything to keep the UK together". There is no-one more fundamentalist than a British nationalist. Salmond and his colleagues are braver than we think. Liberalisation of Scotland is achievable, despite many UK 'institutions' working against it, but will not be for the faint hearted.
49

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 09:44:25
Last night, at post #5, I said with regret that we might now expect these athletes to be described as traitors, unpatriotic, stupid, corrupt, money-motivated, confused, and misreported. The comment "bought and sold for English gold" had already been made by one who should have known better.

The abuse stopped - for a bit, and I assumed that someone at Cybernat Central Control had puy out a memo to get them to lay off. But it's clearly picked up.

Look at #22, by Scotindy (Los Angeles) - "He has been in the enemys camp for too long and has lost his marbles, far less his NATIONALITY WHICH IS SCOTTISH. He should hand the medals back to his beloved country of england."

That is completely outrageous, but typical of an attitude of doing down Scots who don't follow the "party line".

One of the reasons why the SNP won't succeed in driving the nations apart is that Scots will come to realise that the nationalist party and its supporters are not much more than a gang of deluded, bilious, green-ink writing, foaming mouthed zealots, who hate their fellow country people as much as they hate "the English."
50

Graeme,

Guangzhou 26/08/2008 09:45:48
#3, Gaga,

There you go again you pathetic wee man.

What a hypocrite you are. You by previous self-admission stated that you are well off financially and where did you make your cash? Within mostly the previous ‘English’ empire/commonwealth countries. If it were not for ‘Britain’ and her influence around the world you would have nothing bar your daily sad rants. Bought and sold by the same ‘butchers apron’ that you so detest. Eejit.

.

51

Jung,

26/08/2008 09:46:58
Ah! I get it now!

Scotland cannot get its independence because some of our athletes could not compete in team events at the Olympics because other members of the team HAVE to come from other countries in these islands.

Ah! I see. Better call off the independence referendum then. We cannot afford to upset a few elite sportsmen who NEED to win medals to allow them to access untold personal riches after they've won their medals.
52

Jung,

26/08/2008 09:48:23
#58

Oooh! Get her!!
53

Gordieboy,

Musselburgh 26/08/2008 09:49:13
This is a complete non-issue.

Look, it's actually very simple.

If Scotland is independent by 2012, then we have our own team at the Olympics.

If not, we compete as part of Great Britain.

I'm surprised at such a wily operator as Salmond blundering into a debate like this. As much as the potential erosion of Scotland's seperate footballing identity is a 'blue touchpaper' issue, so is the right of Scottish athletes to represent whoever they want to represent.

To come out with this stuff at a time when most people are quite happy to celebrate the achievements of Britain's athletes is both poor politics and dreadfully poor timing. I am an SNP supporter and a fan of Wee Eck, but on this one I think he has made a serious miscalculation.

There are serious issues to be debated coming up, and I'm afraid the existence or otherwise of a Scottish team at the Olympics is not something which I can get terribly worked-up about.
54

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:51:23
54 MacGillicuddy
Chris Hoy went to Manchester as there is an elite centre there for cyclists. In doing so he could utilise the facilities, expert coaching and engineered bikes developed there. There are 28 sports at the summer Olympics and many more at the winter Olympics. There are also many sports not included in either. If you are to offer a wide range of sports opportunities in all sports to match the opportunities available in the UK you would have to set up about 40/50 of these elite centres and spend £millions on each one each year running them. This would be a huge cost for a country of 5million people.
55

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 09:52:28
As great an Olympian Wells once was, he's from a different era. Some might say the David Jenkins era!
56

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 09:55:44
#61 Jung - "Oooh! Get her!!"

Your "humorous" homophobia betrays your lack of politics.

Do you agree with Guga and Scotindy and others like them that Scots sportspersons who take a view beyond the borders of Scotland are traitors? (And presumablty to suffer a traitor's fate.)

Or are you just in this to be abusive behind the anonymity of the internet?
57

HJ,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 09:57:20
#55 "78% of Scots support fielding a Scottish Olmpic team for the London 2012 Olympics" - according to who?
58

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:07:49
Jock - MI5 and Gordon Brown conspired in the seventies with Alan Wells and the Editor of the Scotsman to demolish Scotland's burgeoning racing bike industry. The plant was exported to Northamptonshire by armed convoy in the middle of the night. It's a well-known fact - I heard all about it on The Internet.
59

bill-alba,

fife 26/08/2008 10:12:48
Scotland has no olympians so there is no point in the British olympians trying to pretend otherwise. If you say you are british you cant then say your scottish, before the britnats come on saying your calling them traitors look at the act of union according to that and the brits there is no land called scotland.
60

Jock's blog,

26/08/2008 10:30:30

http://www.savemeadowbank.org
61

Jung,

26/08/2008 10:31:42
#65 Fifi!

" Your "humorous" homophobia betrays your lack of politics "

Humorous? Yes

Homophobia? I will need to ask my civil partner if he thinks I'm homophobic.

And precisely how does your understanding of humorous homphobia give ANY indication about someone's understanding of pilitics.
62

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 10:34:49
As #62 Gordieboy says, this is a non issue. Blatant misrepresentation and distortion by Hamish and the Hootsman. Amazing that we've all become so used to this that it doesn't surprise anyone anymore.

Shame on you Hamish for trying to politicise this. A sure sign of how desperate you've become. Best get as many cheap shots in as you can. Ananda's coming.
I think once the Malaysians take over, we should all petition for Hamish's removal. If he hasn't fallen on his blunt sword beforehand.
63

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26/08/2008 10:36:17
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64

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:36:39
I guess I should take it back about the homophobia, giving you some benefit of a lot of doubt, but you will see how I came to the conclusion. I'm right about the lack of politics betrayed by your comment, though.

Do you agree with Guga and Scotindy and others like them that Scots sportspersons who take a view beyond the borders of Scotland are traitors?
65

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 10:39:54
#58 - "One of the reasons why the SNP won't succeed in driving the nations apart is that Scots will come to realise that the nationalist party and its supporters are not much more than a gang of deluded, bilious, green-ink writing, foaming mouthed zealots, who hate their fellow country people as much as they hate "the English."

This is a bit extreme is it not. You're not by any chance a British Nationalist Fundamentalist?
66

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:40:44
#73 - again, an English MI5 plot. It can all be explained by a massive English MI5 conspiracy that only you and various others who sell the Scots Independent know about, and one which is viciously suppressed by the British media.
67

Calum10,

26/08/2008 10:42:07
Chris Hoy is a hypocrite, and there is nothing mutually exclusive about that in Team GB.
68

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26/08/2008 10:42:21
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:44:33
#75 - I'm not sure how it's extreme and fundamentalist to think that the rabid hatred shown by the likes of Guga and Scotindy, together with the gallpping paranoia shown by many others in forums like this, is going to demponstrate to ordinary Scots that the nationalists in this country are just as dodgy as nationalists all over the world.

I'm sure they would use green fonts in their postings if they could.
70

Anglofile,

26/08/2008 10:45:17
#22. Yeah, right, don't think so..... comments from someone who apparently lives in LA. Another of the "Scotland should be independent, but I won't live there" mob. Bosom buddies with Sham Cunnery and An(t)i Loonux.
71

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26/08/2008 10:45:43
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:45:47
#77, #78 - see what I mean! It's as if I planned that!
73

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26/08/2008 10:46:44
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:49:14
#81 - I think the nationalists should talk a lot more about Willie MacRae. Much, much, more. Every day. The secret MI5 conspiracy has been hidden too long.

Why don't Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon raise the issue incessantly? It's ovious to any True Patriot - they are MI5 assets, that's why!!!1!
75

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26/08/2008 10:50:20
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:50:43
#80 - maybe he's hiding out in LA so MI5 and the lizard people can't get him!!!!1!
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Anne, Glasgow,

26/08/2008 10:51:10
Blimey. I wonder if anyone would tell Sweden that they should join up with Norway so that they could increase their chances of gold medals. I can just imagine their reactions.........!!!!!!!! So what is the problem with Scotland going it alone. I certainly don't feel represented by the Union Jack as the rest of the world see it as only representing England.
78

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26/08/2008 10:51:58
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AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 10:54:50
The anti-Scots brigade are at it again! Did anyone see the dispicable face of Myra Hindly on the official London 2012 Olympic presentation. Ian Brady would've been included too, but the organisers found out he was Scottish!
80

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 10:55:30
#88, no it hasn't. You're lying. MI5 and its assets Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have made sure that the Scots people will never know the truth!!! Only you and I know what really happened!!! And none of us want to suffer the same fate as Wendy Wood, do we????
81

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 26/08/2008 10:56:53
Why is it many of these "Heroic"superstars have the gall to lecture our Scottish nation - on what should be, or shouldn't be -after being spoon fed with a lavish life style (Paid for by Taxpayers cash)for months. One newspaper has already reported many off them had even the stamina and time to fornicate like rabbits inside their villages; maybe this was reeal the reason why they won so many medals?
Where were our the real heros during the athletes strenuous life style? They were were usefully engaged in what's left of our industry, our utilities, our hospitals etc. to make sure our sham democracy operates to allow us and our familiies to go about our every day.
Without these REAL heros; living in the dis-united UK would have been a total, worthless shambles; and the sad facts are, most off them are amongst the lowest earnings in Western Europe.
82

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26/08/2008 10:57:15
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Marga,

Fife 26/08/2008 11:00:33
Re-post because it “got lost” first time round:

Medal table doesn’t tell the real story

Interesting article on El Pais front page today, sorry Spanish only. Comments on Olympics with particular (critical) take on the UK. Sour grapes or true?

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/medallero/enganoso/elpepudep/20080826elpepidep_2/Tes

2 quotes:
Medals reflect a country’s investment, not its sporting health.
Medal toll can have more influence on the stability of a country than the price of petrol, it says.

According to El País, the UK sat down 4 years ago and picked out the sports with least competition where they had some strength. It then deliberately targetted them with intensive investment for short-term gain in the next Olympics.

It also contrasts the UK’s liberal private-enterprise government and its fiercely state-controlled and centrally funded Olympic effort out of lottery money, to give UK a showcase performance for the London Olympics.

I read from this that Alex Salmond has been concentrating on sport for all Scots up to now, and that the SNP is showcasing good politics and not quasi-Stalinist bread and circuses, that are incidentally feeding into the (other) GB resurgence campaign. He shouldn’t take his eye off the ball now.

Oh, and don’t shoot the messanger, the sportsman and his or her dreams – its the message that’s suspect.
84

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26/08/2008 11:01:13
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Darien,

26/08/2008 11:06:47
#29 - "So they're all content to be Team Ying Guo are they?? Yin Guo did not mean Great Britain. It translates as England ... and the Saltire was banned too! Now there's racism at work!"

Thank you #29: The point here folks is that Scotland (treated as a region of the UK, rather than the supposed partner nation) does not have any national/international status, as David Beckam confirmed at the closing ceremony ("welcome to England", oh I mean Britain, oh no I don't etc). In other words Scotland does not exist as a nation, whereas England continues to exist internationally; England and the UK/GB are viewed as one and the same entity. Most Scots know this discrimination exists and are fed up with it, so the sea-change in opinion and willingness to move into the warm waters of independence.
86

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26/08/2008 11:14:33
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Scotfree,

Erskine 26/08/2008 11:17:07
Sportmen returnimg from the olympics must be under some pressure at the moment given all the hullaballoo of the event and the singular lack of carreer prospects for riding fast round a wooden track (and suchlike skills) outside the media or UK (sic) coaching staff, where any expression of nationalist sentiments would lead to an abrupt end to an alternative source of income. Similarly they could expect to see any honours dissapear if they offended the recipient of our glorious national (sic) anthem. So their attitude is understandable, if regrattable, as they are allowing themselves to be instuments in denying fellow Scots the opportunity to take part in the olympics but continuing to support the lower standard of sporting facilities and coaching within Scotland. This latter point is doubly digracefull as Scots lottery money is used to benefit English based facilities and coaching facilities which is then used as a reason to deny Scots their own team and facilities. Pervideos Albion indeed! On the bright side the liberation of the Scottish psyche from this Scottish cringe has been achieved in other areas so it is only a matter of time before sport and media follow suit.
88

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:17:52
#92 and #94 - your analysis of MI5 and Muslim infltration of the North Sea and whisky is just what want to hear from the Nationalists, and the MI5 sleepers Salmond and Sturgeon.

And while there are many who think they know about what really happened to Willie MacRae, only a very few know what REALLY REALLY happened!!!

It is all a huge conspiracy and we need you to blow it right open!!!!1!
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:19:22
#91 - there will be no fornication when Scotland gets its freedom from the half-breeds!
90

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26/08/2008 11:19:37
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:20:52
#98 - have no fear - the evil forces of MI5 and their agents in the so-called SNP will never silence the likes of you and me!!!1!
92

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26/08/2008 11:21:08
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Nikostratos,

26/08/2008 11:23:06
#3 GUGGA

"The trouble is though that most of the professional athletes are more interested in lining their own pockets than they are in representing their own country."

That Gugga is a disgusting racist but perhaps he can tell us what he feels (to have a thought you must have brain and Gugga is very old brain)about a Scot going to work in a foreign land (in Guggas terms England).
to earn a crust to feed thier family without state aid and then finds there company is competing with and against a more expensive Scottish product.

what should he do one refuse to compete thus letting home grown Scots pay more when he can provide a more cheaper product for them.
Or continue selling said cheaper product to Scots and be in Guggas eyes a traitor to the Scottish Nation
94

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:23:13
#104 - you've got me all wrong! I'm on your side!!!!1!

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Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 11:23:35
#100 Fifi sweetie

Give it a rest luv. You're disrespecting a great man.
Either tell us what your positive message is, or butt out....so to speak. Otherwise you're simply trolling.
96

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26/08/2008 11:25:22
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European Scot,

26/08/2008 11:25:41
Cycling events, won with the help of a high tech bike, rowing, and sculling, they're not exactly the 100 metres, or the Marathon are they ?
Nevertheless it's congratulations to all of the successful medalists of course, but I would have been far more impressed if any athlete, from the individual Nations of the UK, had made it to the bronze level stage in any of the major athletic events.
Mind you, if a future 'Team Scotland' pulls bronze in the Curling, I'll be more than happy with that !
Just seeing 'Team Scotland' walking around a track behind the Saltire will more than satisfy my aspirations, a success in anything, at any level, would be a bonus.
In all honestly I am less than enthusiastic about the number of medals 'Team GB' won. As someone who supports the Independence of Scotland, such medals have little value, or meaning.
I do not identify with British, so there has never been any emotional involvement in the Olympics, and the sight of a Union flag along with the sound of that anthem was never going to inspire.
Clearly such images had quite the opposite effect on the Unionist brigade, who have become emboldened after their relative obscurity, following Glasgow East.
Still the Olympics are all over now, although the EBC will doubtless use every opportunity to remind us all about 'Team GB' ad nauseam.
In the meantime, Unionists have got some of their own events to face, as reality replaces the televised images of their favourite red, white, and blue.
The first hurdle, not too far away, the by elections, to be followed by a Marathon, the General Election, and then the final event a Referendum.
As Chris Hoy suggested, there is a need to improve Scottish sport facilities. Hopefully that can be achieved, but over a wider range of sports, in order to encourage the next generation of Scottish Olympic athletes, the first to represent Scotland.
Incidentally in these Beijing Olympics, the Marathon was won by an Ethiopian.
In fact Ethiopia won 4 gold, 1
98

European Scot,

26/08/2008 11:26:19
Incidentally in these Beijing Olympics, the Marathon was won by an Ethiopian.
In fact Ethiopia won 4 gold, 1 silver, and 2 bronze medals, not a country renowned for its riches.
99

Masterpiece,

26/08/2008 11:26:20
The prospect of Scottish Independence frightens the living daylights out of the Westminster parties as does the prospect of Scottish people getting their self respect back at any level.

Be it at the sporting level or the cultural and especially the Gaelic language.

How more Nationalist are so blind to this saddens me.
English cultural Imperialism is just as damaging to Scotland as economic imperialism.
100

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:26:34
#107 - I suppose you've got a civil partner too?

Anyway, since you ask, about Willie MacRae - it all started when out of the skies a thundering flash of
101

pwd,

Hawick 26/08/2008 11:26:42
"Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has made clear he would like to see a Scottish team at the Olympics..."

Maybe he would but he has little credibility and can only speak for 17% of the Scottish people; ie, the 17% of the electorate who voted for his party. Sir Sean's credibility is extremely suspect when he choses to live elsewhere. But, when people of the stature of Chris Hoy and Allan Wells speak that is a different matter; we should listen.

The vast majority of Scots derived much pride and pleasure from the British performance. The performance of the cycling team was particularly gratifying because it was made up of athletes from across the UK. Yes. it's good to be Scottish and British.
102

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26/08/2008 11:27:23
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103

pwd,

Borders 26/08/2008 11:27:30
"Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has made clear he would like to see a Scottish team at the Olympics..."

Maybe he would but he has little credibility and can only speak for 17% of the Scottish people; ie, the 17% of the electorate who voted for his party. Sir Sean's credibility is extremely suspect when he choses to live elsewhere. But, when people of the stature of Chris Hoy and Allan Wells speak that is a different matter; we should listen.

The vast majority of Scots derived much pride and pleasure from the British performance. The performance of the cycling team was particularly gratifying because it was made up of athletes from across the UK. Yes. it's good to be Scottish and British.
104

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26/08/2008 11:29:15
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105

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:30:24
and that's how the massive cover up was effected by MI5, the Queen, Mary Marquis, and Jimmy Logan. Clement Freud never shaved again.

Incredible stuff! If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I would never have believed it. We must get the truth out.
106

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26/08/2008 11:30:51
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107

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 11:30:56
#102 Angus Mannie:

"Hoy didnt say the things that the Hootsman wrote, the Hootsman has made them up to suit their backers, they have really discredited the man."

So I assume you have proof that Hoy didn't say what he is quoted as saying? You seem very sure he didn't say what was written, why don't you provide us with some evidence to prove this?

Surely if the Scotsman 'made up' quotes and attributed them to Hoy he would have come out and said that they were untrue? Or he would sue them?
108

Ugly George,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 11:31:55
93 Marga
El Pais is distorting(either deliberately or accidentally) the situation regarding how sports are funded. The allocation of funds to particular sports is not as they described. It was allocated according to how well they performed at the last Olympics in 2004. Thus athletics (hardly a sport with limited competition) got a large amount (the largest I think) on the back of 3 gold medals in 2004. It is not a matter of picking out sports with least competition.
109

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26/08/2008 11:32:38
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:32:38
My Dod - MI5 stopped me getting the truth out about Willie MacRae! They're closer than I thought.

Angus Mannie - a nation's hopes rest with you now.

Dinna let us doon noo, laddie.
111

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26/08/2008 11:34:13
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,

26/08/2008 11:35:49
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 11:37:14
111 masterpiece
So, according to you, they are quaking in their boots in Westminster at the thought of more people learning Gaelic. Do you expect to be taken seriously.
114

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 11:37:42
#116

"No sure where you get the 17 % from?"

17% is the percentage of the Scottish electorate who voted SNP in 2007.

The SNP got 32% of the vote in 2007, but since only just over 50% of the electorate voted, they only got 17% of the total electorate.

Is that clear enough for you? Perhaps you would like to apologise to pwd for accusing him/her of lying?
115

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 11:38:54
112 Fifi la Soorploom

Generally speaking she is very civil. Unlike her Mother the dragon in law, who's got a nasty barbed tongue similar to yours. Must be a bit of an unfortunate drawback when you're hingin aboot under that bridge.
116

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26/08/2008 11:40:29
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117

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 11:40:36
#124

"Aye are ye some kind of lawyer, everything is proof, but if you watched the evening news and so his lips move you would know that he did not say what the Scotsman said.... OK ?!?"

Yes actually. Anyway, if you state something as a fact you generally need to provide evidence to back it up.

What did he say on the Evening News? Did he state that what was attributed to him in the Scotsman was wrong?

Just because he said one thing on the Evening News doesn't mean he didn't say another thing to the Scotsman.

Do you really think a newspaper would just make up quotes and attribute them to him? Do you really think they would risk the possibility of getting sued?
118

Pontificatus Maximus of Avignon,

26/08/2008 11:40:55
#112
Doesn't EVERYONE dahling?
119

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26/08/2008 11:43:00
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 11:43:15
109 European Scot
How do you define "major athletic events". Are you saing that mens high jump and triple jump are not in this category. What about swimming 400 metres or 800 metres - are these not worthy sporting achievements?
121

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 11:44:42
By the way, does anyone know what the Chinese for "Britain" is?

Probably not. And you won't get it out of any dictionary, as it doesn't exist.

The Chinese have a word for England, and a word for Scotland. They just translate Britain as England. It is not even like German or French, which have Grand Bretagne and Grossbritannien - Chinese, along with Arabic, Japanese, Hindi, Urdu etc, has no word at all for the concept.

Still the choice exists in English, and most people choose Britain, right?

http://tinyurl.com/5h723c

"England's Chris Hoy shows his three Olympics gold medals won during cycling competition in Beijing 2008 Olympics, on August 19, 2008, in Beijing, China. Photo by Lucas"
122

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26/08/2008 11:45:27
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123

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 11:45:49
"Their comments come as a major blow to the Nationalists who want to see Scotland fielding its own Olympic team"

No they don't.

It's not just nationalists that want a separate Olympic team, but many Unionists too.

There is no word for Britain in Chinese.
124

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26/08/2008 11:46:16
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Yeah1,

26/08/2008 11:48:12
#132

"So the SNP got 33% of the vote and not 17%"

Erm yes thats exactly what I said, although it was actually 32%. They got 32% of the vote, and 17% of the total electorate voted for them - exactly what pwd said:

"17% of the electorate who voted for his party."

Now again, would you like to apologise to pwd for accusing him/her of lying?
126

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 11:49:22
#137 - Yes, and at least it exists. Unlike the translation for Britain.

What is the Japanese for Britain? Igirisu. (Corruption of English)

What is the Arabic for British? Ingleezi.

What is the Bahasa Indonesia for Britain? Inggris.
127

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:50:26
"There is no word for Britain in Chinese."

My goodness, I think the nats might just have found the killer argument!!!!1!


Fought an died for!!
128

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 11:50:28
129 Angus Mannie
What do you mean by describing me as "you people". You must feel that you have got phenomenal powers of collective social diagnosis if you can presume to categorise me readily.
129

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 11:50:31
Angus Mannie:

Come on, where is your proof that the Scotsman 'made up' the quotes attributed to Chris Hoy?

Do you have any evidence of it? Did he say on the evening news that his quotes in the Scotsman were made up?

I would suggest that is it actually YOU who are making things up.
130

HughB,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 11:53:03
This is a MASSIVE blow to the Labour party, as it shows the utter neglect and mismanagement which they have delivered to Scotland in all the decades they have been in power.

It's time to put that right, so that in future we can have a Scottish Olympic Team.

Let's put it right.
131

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:53:48
Angus Mannie is a genuine patriot and you lot should leave him alone. He should not be pestered with such anglocentric concepts as "proof" and "evidence." He knows the real truth about the massive conspiracy.
132

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 11:54:11
"My goodness, I think the nats might just have found the killer argument!"

Actually it is.

Outside the Embassy in Beijing, it has "Embassy of England" written in Chinese.

How does the British state explain that one?
133

pwd,

Borders 26/08/2008 11:54:23
* 127 Yeah 1

Thank you for that but Angus Minnie still doesn't (won't!) understand. I'll ignore his insult and try one more time.
In the 2007 election SNP Constituency vote = 664,227.
Electorate = 3,899,845.
Equation = vote divided by electorate multiplied by 100.
Result = 16.52%.

So, as I said, c17% of the elctorate voted SNP.

134

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 11:55:00
142 Yeah 1

" Chris Hoy refuses to endorse Sean Connery's message"

Completely made up misrepresentation of what Chris Hoy said.
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Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:55:21
#143 - "This is a MASSIVE blow to the Labour party, as it shows the utter neglect and mismanagement which they have delivered to Scotland in all the decades they have been in power."

What? That there is no word for Britain in Chinese?
136

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2008 11:56:27
#145 - "How does the British state explain that one?"

I sincerely hope it doesn't bother trying!
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WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 11:56:30
"That there is no word for Britain in Chinese?"

That's a different issue.

But why isn't there one? There is one in French, as ye kennais Monsieur.
138

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 11:57:13
"I sincerely hope it doesn't bother trying!"

Why? Do you think England and Britain are one and the same? And if not, why is the British state promoting this idea abroad?

What benefit is there in it?
139

European Scot,

26/08/2008 11:57:34
123 Jock Wilson

" Real sports lovers see significance in the achievements of dedicated athletes that transcend the normal rules of life, whether it be just the sheer excitement of cutthroat competition or individuals over coming the odds. We enjoy and marvel at it for its own sake.

But your view is clearly different and I don't envy you your blind spot."

If it were simply a sporting occasion, and there was no political use made of the results, with all the 'British' propaganda that always follows, I would sympathise with your view.
I tend to be more impressed by smaller, or poorer countries achieving results at events like the Olympics, rather than by the rich, high tech Nations, backed up by huge sponsorship.
I wouldn't mind going back to the original Olympic ideal of supporting individuals rather than Nations.
As long as it is a propaganda vehicle for the British State I'll keep my 'blind spot'.
Of course if you were a Unionist, you wouldn't suffer from such an impediment.
140

Brian Hill,

26/08/2008 11:57:49
#28 Anne: 'Nicol abandoned his national identity for money, didn't he?'

1. Nicol didn't abandon his nationality for money he couldn't get the support in Scotland he needed to maintain his world champion status. Even as the first Scot, if not the first Britain to be world Squash champion he got very little coverage in the Unionist Scottish press.

But even if it was a case of money, why should he not make money for all the hours he put in to a very tough daily training schedule and why shouldn't that same money not be available in Scotland?

Considering how much money London earns from Scottish Oil and Gas in relation to the pittance which is required for our sports personnel it really does go to show where English/UK priorities lie viz in England.

English assets are English, English debts or needs are British, Scottish assets are British, Scottish debts or needs are Scottish.

Yes Gordon, let's be even more British than we already are. We were born to be subservient.....well, some of us apparently.
141

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 12:01:42
If Chris Hoy and Andy Nicol were so upset about the lack of facilities in Scotland, why didn't they lead serious campaigns to rectify the situation? Hoy's made a couple of soundbytes on how bad it is that they're knocking down Meadowbank in Edinburgh, but not much else in this line.
142

Neil,

Glasgow 26/08/2008 12:03:24
If the IOC went for that they would have to accept a separate Bavarian & Catalan & Texan & Turkish Kurd team. No possibility. To pretend this is a real option is silly.
143

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 12:17:57
#155 Neil

From Wikipedia

203 countries currently participate in the Olympics. This is a noticeably higher number than the number of countries belonging to the United Nations, which is only 193. The International Olympic Committee allows nations to compete which do not meet the strict requirements for political sovereignty that many other international organizations demand. As a result, many colonies and dependencies are permitted to host their own Olympic teams and athletes even if such competitors also hold citizenship in another member nation
144

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 12:22:32
"If the IOC went for that they would have to accept a separate Bavarian & Catalan & Texan & Turkish Kurd team. No possibility. To pretend this is a real option is silly."

Firstly, a number of non-sovereign entities do compete in the Olympics, such as Puerto Rico and Hong Kong. Taiwan and the PRC both claim to be the same state.

Secondly, Bavaria, Catalonia, Texas and Kurdistan do not field their national teams in competitions regularly as Scotland and Wales do, although there was a very successful Catalan national rugby team before Franco got into power.
145

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 12:23:38
#155 Neil

So given that bodies like FIFA, Commonwealth games, and many others have no problem with Scotland competing independently, and political sovereignty isn't really an issue, I don't see how the IOC could have a problem.
146

sweet76,

26/08/2008 12:23:57
I think alot of the commentators here are missing a fundemental point when it comes to funding and sport in this country.
The sports that produced the most success were the least funded. Cycling, sailing and rowing recieved the smallest amount of money where (multicultural) athletics recieved a huge amount and produced very little.
It appears to me that the cyclists, sailors and rowers do it for the love of the sport. I know one of the olympic athelics team that drives a Jag. I wonder what Chris Hoy drives to work?
147

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 12:26:37
156 Ananurhing
This point has been made before but it is not relevent to Scotland. It refers to places like American Samoa, Hong Kong etc. but the comparison is not valid. These "countries" are autonomous self-governing states with no political representation in the "owning" country. There is no governor or senator from American Samoa in the US congress in the same way that Gibraltar does not have political representation in the House of Commons. Hong Kong even has a separate currency from China.
148

John S,

26/08/2008 12:28:19
#93 Marga, interesting to read and probably true. Looking at Team GB at the Beijing Olympics they won 19 Gold medals in 7 sports with cycling;rowing;sailing being predominant. Remove them plus canoe/kayak flatwater (1 gold) and we are left with 4 Golds to cover Athletics(1);Boxing(1);Swimming (2).
149

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 12:32:55
159Ananurhing
FIFA allows the gour UK countries to compete separately as a matter of precedence. Football internationals between Scotland and England predate the setting up of FIFA and the existing arrangement was therefore continued.
150

JeB,

the city 26/08/2008 12:33:05
It's a nice idea to have a scottish team in the olympics but seriously, it cannot happen in the foreseeable future. Scotland doesn't have the facilities to train atheletes to olympic standards and we hardly do anything in schools to promote sports to youngsters. If the scottish government seriously wants to pursue this it needs to look at the funding for sports and facilities to train youngsters to the standards which would see them competing on the same level as English athletes. There is no point in creating a separate team to send them to games where they cannot compete with others. This would be depriving them of the opportunity to develop and become the best they can be and win medals, simply because the SNP think Scotland can be independent in everything!
151

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 12:35:08
#161 - Hong Kong has never ever been a country in its own right. Unlike Scotland, Bavaria or Catalonia.

I think a lot of the people there consider themselves Chinese, even if they don't agree with the Communist party.

"There is no governor or senator from American Samoa in the US congress in the same way that Gibraltar does not have political representation in the House of Commons."

These are all colonies. Scotland is a colony of a kind, although it's barely cognizant of the fact.
152

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 12:36:30
"Scotland doesn't have the facilities to train atheletes to olympic standards"

Have you worked out why yet?

The English moan about funding the Scottish Parliament Building, but we helped pay for Wembley. Never forget that. Our money is being taken to build sports facilities in places which are already overprovided for.
153

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 12:36:46
John S, just when i thought the posts couldn’t get any worse you pull this one out the bag. Scottish, English, British or whatever you call yourself, you obviously dont like supporting your team you are just a small minded moaning little turd like the majority on this post. Sometimes it’s nothing but embarrassing reading the posts on this page from Scots, pathetic. There was me thinking Chris Hoy was a Scottish legend for what he has done, silly me.
I suppose if i went on the Daily Record website i wouldn't get sensible chat so why should i expect it on this tabloid?
154

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 12:42:55
165 Whistleblower
You have not recognised the crucial difference. These colonies and Hong Kong are completely self-governing and are therefore autonomous political units with no representation elsewhere. This is not the case in Scotland which has political representation in Westminster and therefore cannot be described as a colony.
155

John S,

26/08/2008 12:43:54
#167 But what I wrote was true are you afraid of reading the truth ? I was agreeing with #93 when Marga wrote: According to El País, the UK sat down 4 years ago and picked out the sports with least competition where they had some strength. It then deliberately targetted them with intensive investment for short-term gain in the next Olympics.
You really should read what the post was all about.

156

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 12:44:08
#165 - Numpty - do you think a lot of people in Scotland consider themselves British?
our money built Wembley, our money built Scottish parliament, bloody hell its like reading a kids argument.....
157

Beergoggles,

England 26/08/2008 12:44:39
#166 I have no problem with funding such things as the Scottish Parliament Building, nor presumably the funding for the 2014 games.

I have no idea what level of funding from other parts of the UK (including the rest of England) has gone into Wembley and the London Olympics, but it is only right that all parts of the UK get a sufficient cut.

We are agreed that as regards the last part of this statement, there has not been equality.
158

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 12:45:57
#169 believe everything you read, my favourite quote 'are you afraid of reading the truth?' ha ha, i will go on UFO.com so we can discuss the flying saucers that i read or 'cant you handle the truth' 'the truth is out there' Numpty.
159

European Scot,

26/08/2008 12:47:03
133 Ugly George

" How do you define "major athletic events". Are you saing that mens high jump and triple jump are not in this category. What about swimming 400 metres or 800 metres - are these not worthy sporting achievements?"

Good afternoon Ugly George

What I'm referring to are the main track events , the Men and Women's 100 metres, 200 metres, 400 metres, the 5,000 metres the 10.000 metres, and the relays also.
The Marathon, which is a high profile event.
The events that you mention are also prominent of course, and winning them is indeed a sporting achievement, but in a track event pecking order, I wouldn't place them in the same high profile category as the above.
The point was that I would be more impressed by gaining a bronze in any of these 'top' events, than a gold in a 'lesser' events.
160

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 12:50:01
#161 Ugly George

So are you saying it could only happen after Scotland becomes independent? Even when other bodies with stricter criteria accept Scotland as an entity.

You may well be right. I don't really care to be honest. I find the politicising of sport distasteful in extreme. Particularly this desperate rags attempts to do so. Real tawdry tactics.

When a handfull of medals and a flag are used as the only unionist rallying call available, that smacks of desperation and an empty argument to me.
161

Andra, Dundee,

26/08/2008 12:51:38

Scotland is capable of having all of the facilities and coaches required to have our own olympic team - but there is no need because we are part of the UK and with a combined population of 60 million we will always have better coaches and better facilities than if we were in a 5 million country.

We currently have the best of both worlds with the chance to compete as Scotland in the Commonwealth games (using the same training coaches and facilities that the English use), but then at the ultimate sporting event - the olympics we are able to excel as part of a world class team.

162

Mikey,

26/08/2008 12:53:22
Reading the comments of the Britnats makes me think of the situation in the RoI in 1922. After the border was drawn, there was a sizeable chunk of sycophantic king lovers who just couldn't face life without the class system. They deserted the RoI in favour of being a nonentity under the crown. And yes, I know the RoI didn't exist until 1948, but you get the drift!

I wonder how many of our Britnat posters would join the chicken run and move to their real pied a terre in England?

That's the problem with Britnats. They have absolutely nothing to offer Scotland except more of the same. The same discredited old policies that have seen the uinonist parties go down and down in the polls. If Scotland is such a bad place, why live here?

Saor agus siochan na h'Alba!
163

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 12:55:14
#175

"I find the politicising of sport distasteful in extreme."

Yes I agree, people like Alex Salmond, Sean Connery and Stewart Maxwell should really refrain from commenting on the Olympics and trying to turn it into a political point-scoring contest.
164

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 12:56:23
166 Whistleblower
Please check the details. Part of the funding of the new Wembley came from Sport England which receives lottery money but the same applies here. Part of the money for rebuilding Hampden and Murrayfield also came from lottery money given to Sport Scotland. If you check the details further you will discover that Sport Scotland receives proportionately more (i.e. per capita) than Sport England. Please check the details beore you makecomplaints.
165

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 13:00:26
#178

"If Scotland is such a bad place, why live here?"

They don't think Scotland's a bad place, thats the whole point. Obviously they like Scotland the way it is at present - as part of the UK, and are happy to be both Scottish and British.

"Saor agus siochan na h'Alba!"

Perhaps you could translate the above for the 98.9% of Scots who don't understand that outdated, anachronistic language?
166

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 13:03:39
Mikey - get a job a stop sponging of the state, but fair play on the utter p1sh that you just wrote - its getting worse post by post. Where do you stand on Scots living in England?
167

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 26/08/2008 13:08:44
Chris Hoy is 100% correct. Forget about beating the English - beat the world.
168

lachlan,

26/08/2008 13:09:20
i see slovenia,portugual and estonia to name a few all won gold medals at the olympics.bet they all want to join team g.b.to raise there tally.
i would have thought our friends in the rest of the u.k.would support a scottish team in the london olympics and let us share some their facilities then that would give some of the athletes from these countries who were kept out the team by scots a chance.
169

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 26/08/2008 13:09:47
Hasn't Salmond been quiet since praising Thatcher?
170

lachlan,

26/08/2008 13:10:59
#184 yes lets have an E.U.team
171

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 26/08/2008 13:12:34
Connery didn't miss Salmond yesterday at the Festival - unlike Alex, he wasn't happy with Thatcher's economic policies - and he said so.
172

The Tin Man,

26/08/2008 13:13:15
Good game all - keep it up, sports-laddies & ladies.

I'm off to play tennis.
173

John S,

26/08/2008 13:15:07
Poll time and it has nothing to do with the upcoming by-election
Would you like to see Scotland send its own Olympic Team to London 2012 ?
A summary of results was as follows:
78% of all respondents said YES
11% of respondents said no
11% had no opinion
1,040 adults (aged 16 or over) were interviewed during the 12th - 18th August 2005 survey:tinyurl.com/6mnvza
Off course this will have changed after Team GB great medal haul.
174

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 13:16:58
Lachlan - i know #185 is a p1sh take but i worry that you might actually mean it. Granted your not hiding the fact your a complete hoot and nanny but c'mon are you taking it too far? Do you go on holiday within Scotland to help boost the economy or are you a traitor and travel abroad (abroad isnt england).
175

European Scot,

26/08/2008 13:18:43
157 Jock Wilson

" I don't know why you tried to polarise me in your last para, but you will have your own reasons."

Note the little word "if".

" You accuse the British State of propaganda so it is just as well that Alex Salmond has decided not to do likewise as it would get completely out of hand. I'm sure you would condemn that equally out of hand, being a man, or woman, who wants Sport to be free of all political contamination.

The sight of Alex Salmond standing alongside Scottish athletes in Scotland wouldn't exactly impress ! He's managed to achieve that, without such publicity.
However if he does go for the photo opportunity, it may serve a good purpose in reminding him of the need to get fit !
176

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 13:18:45
#190 what was this poll???? I just asked 5 folk in my office if they thought you were full of rubbish, 4 answered yes and one said he wasnt sure.....anyone else want to add to poll time? good source though.
177

Michelle Fifer,

Campaign for a Fife Olympic team: webbed feet = sw 26/08/2008 13:26:14
I'm normally sympathetic to all things Scotland, but like 180, can't help feeling the SNP has made a misjudgement here. Most people want to congratulate good performances all round whoever the winners, but this just stokes some of the predictable and unhelpful hysteria above. The SNP knows this is an issue for the future, after we become independent if that ever happens, and actually risks alienating people if it continues to rabble-rouse in this way, particularly as it needs more of the 'mainstream' to convert to their cause for it to happen!

Most people who want independence happen to think it could work, despite the often childish scaremongering to the contrary, and without having to resort the black and white loathe or love the english that some people seem to think it's all about. At the end of the day, we'll still be reliant on English, Welsh and Irish consumers for our economic well-being, just as we are now, we'll probably still be in the EU and we'll probably still have politicians urinating our hard earned cash up the wall, all that'll happen is we choose them, not England, which is democracy in the end.
178

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 13:26:49
"These colonies and Hong Kong are completely self-governing and are therefore autonomous political units with no representation elsewhere. This is not the case in Scotland which has political representation in Westminster and therefore cannot be described as a colony."

Even colonies can have representation. Scotland's history, like that of Hungary, and the Ukraine, has been one of both colony and coloniser, often at the same time.

Hong Kong is not completely self-governing. Who deals with defence? Who disallows democratic elections there?

I get the two confused, but I know that while Puerto Rico is excluded from one of the American "Houses", it can send representatives to the other.

Likewise, Gibraltar IS represented by the UK. It has the same MEPs as south west England, as it is part of the same constituency.
179

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 13:28:57
"Perhaps you could translate the above for the 98.9% of Scots who don't understand that outdated, anachronistic language?"

It's not outdated or anachronistic, anymore than the corrupt Normanised Anglo-Saxon you're blethering in.

*I* understand what s/he wrote perfectly.
180

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 13:31:00
"tantamount to driving out anyone not conforming to the cultural stereotype"

You could be talking about the Falklands, or Gibraltar with this statement. The Brits drove out anyone who didn't swear loyalty to their unelected monarch when they retook the islands in the 1830s. And in Gibraltar, if you feel anything but British, they make life VERY uncomfortable for you.
181

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 13:32:26
"economic stagnation"

They had that in Ireland before independence.

Or are you going to blame the Famine on the Free State too? (When the British state was EXPORTING food from Ireland?!)
182

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 13:32:33
#165, #168: Scotland appears to have two unique colonial aspects. First, it is an 'internal' colony in that it has a specific regional identity within the UK secured via the Treaty (of Parliaments), but is still ultimately controlled by the dominant force (and until last year also via a separate puppet government in Edinburgh). Secondly, and more importantly, without Scotland the UK ceases to exist. Therefore UK, GB, or even Team GB, whatever you want to call it, more or less ceases to exist. This is what all British Nationalists (aka Unionists) are afraid of as, without Scotland, their kind of British nationalism or British nation (and its rapidly diminishing global influence) will no longer exist. One worrying aspect as Broon said, 'we' will do anything/or everything to maintain Britain (and therefore British nationalism). By 'we' he means the institutions of the British State, many of which are already working against and seeking to discreditn any notion of Scottish independence (e.g. all unionist parties, EBC, CBI, Calman, BOC, etc etc).
183

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 13:33:57
173 European Scot
Hello there.
I think that you are being rather selective in viewing track events as the most important. There is also another aspect which has to be taken into account. One hesitates to point this out lest unfounded charges of racism follow but the sprints tend to be dominated by AfroCaribbeans or African Americans who have ethnic origins in West Africa. On the other hand East Africans (Ehiopians, Kenyans etc.) tend to perform very well in the distance events. There do seem to be genetic factors involved. Also none of the American swimmers are African Americans and one hardly even saw an individual of West African ethnic origin from any country in the swimming events. To put it in blunt terms, all the American sprinters are black and all the American swimmers are white.

The Olympics by including so many events offer opportunites for all types of genetic composition to excel gymnasts and divers are short and squat while rowers are big and muscular etc.

Incidentally, I know there is a cloud over her because of missed drug tests, but the winner of the womens 400m was a GB athlete (once again of West African ethnic origin)
184

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 13:40:56
The irony is that the Brits who write for the Daily Mail are claiming that the UK's medals could be taken away when Brussels forces the existence of a united EU team!!!

Oh, the irony!
185

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 13:40:58
#180 Yeah1

Seems to me that Salmond etc. are arguing for having the facilities in Scotland to nurture our own home grown talent, and for our sports men and women being able to represent their home country rather than a political amalgam.
Where as Brown has turned into Captain Britannia, resplendent in helmet, shield, trident and union flag. With nothing to say. Just a feeble attempt to rabble rouse and bask in reflected glory.
Guess which one I find more distasteful.
186

European Scot,

26/08/2008 13:41:54
194 Jock Wilson

" Wee Alex will be in there glad-handing the heroes from Valhalla along with all the others, albeit wearing another notch in his tartan truss."

Alex Salmond is the First Minister, if he were to shun such an occasion he would get it in the neck from the Unionist Press in Scotland for failing in his duty.
So he is obliged to glad hand the successful athletes, now if he happens to pick up some political advantage by doing so ! !
Do I detect a little negativity from you regarding Alex ? !

Anyway lunch calls,
187

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 13:45:17
196/201
You might chose to describe Scotland as a colony but it is not a colony under the proper definition as it has political representation. No amount of subjective comment can alter that basic fact.
188

Bob M,

Paisley 26/08/2008 13:47:00
#188 - When did Salmond say he was "happy with Thatcher's economic policies "?
189

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 13:59:59
#198

"It's not outdated or anachronistic, anymore than the corrupt Normanised Anglo-Saxon you're blethering in.

*I* understand what s/he wrote perfectly."

Well obviously you are one of the tiny minority of Scots who actually understand gaelic then.

If the English language is so 'corrupt' why do you speak and write it yourself? Why not use gaelic all the time to try and encourage other Scots to speak it?

Its backward-looking people like you who put off 'normal' Scots from the idea of independence - there is the worry that you will make gaelic the national language of Scotland and force people to learn it, rather than learning a useful language such as Mandarin or Spanish.
190

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 14:00:32
#207 Jock

I haven't seen Salmond " bask in others glory". And yes, he and Broon are entirely different types of Scot.
One is proud to be one, the other goes to excrutiating lengths in his denial of being Scottish. What's your point?

BTW I've just seen on TV all the Welsh athletes arriving at Cardiff airport, waving Welsh flags, not a union jack in sight, happy, smiling, and it's not an issue.
Can you imagine the Scots contingent arriving at Glasgow airport waving the union jack, singing 'Rule Brittania? I don't think so.
191

Team Scotland,

26/08/2008 14:00:48
This is yet another 'silly season' story. A predictable answer from the SNP Government to a question about Scotland having an Olympic team was translated by the hacks into a 'Call for an Olympic team'. Various other hacks in search of a story have fed off each other. They then latched on to a few dismissive comments from returning athletes who fairly obviously do not want to detract from their recent success.

The threat to the Scotland senior football team is a real issue which should be taken seriously. The remaining 'Team GB' issues are less pressing as minds will now focus on the Commonwealth games in 2010. I think a Scottish team is unlikely before independence. Whatever preparations are planned my hope is that they will be from the bottom up.

Scotland produced no medal winners in Beijing. We simply produced a few bags of DNA who emigrated and won medals while based somewhere else. The real issue to emerge from the 'silly season' story is the lack of facilities and coaching in Scotland. Personally I think good coaches are more important than having the best facilities.

Hopefully the Scottish Government will look at providing a wide range of basic facilities that can be used by all (the obsession with elite sport in a country where most people have a higher body fat ratio than an ice cream, seems to me, borderline delusional). Once areas of strength are identified, elite coaches must be put in place to bring any emerging talent on. Throwing money at sports on the basis of individual performances of ex-doms would be chasing rainbows.

Because of our size athletes in minority sports will still have to train abroad. A reasonable sports infrastructure at home is of more benefit to the nation than the reflected glory of an 'ex-dom' medallist or three every 4 years.

If the Scottish government can improve grass roots sport that will be a victory in its self. A fitter population should be the main aim. Scots who train elsewhere are not the primary respons
192

Team Scotland,

26/08/2008 14:01:21
. . cont

If the Scottish government can improve grass roots sport that will be a victory in its self. A fitter population should be the main aim. Scots who train elsewhere are not the primary responsibility of the Scottish government, raising the standards and participation rate at home is. In terms of elite success that is in the gift of the Scottish Government, the figure to beat in the Olympics is currently zero.
193

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 14:04:08
#212

"I haven't seen Salmond " bask in others glory"."

Salmond is holding an 'official reception' for the Scottish Olympians and will no doubt try to force his way onto the bus parade too and into as many photo ops as possible.

Face it, all politicians are the same - they all try to get publicity and reflected glory from events like this. Its only your blinkered support for the SNP that allows you to criticise Brown for doing something and then let off Salmond for doing exactly the same thing.
194

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 14:08:33
#206 Not just any old 'colony'. I said 'Internal' colony, or perhaps more appropriately 'integral' or 'strategic' colony. In any event, the colony description is a function of how a place is treated or perceived as such. But Scotland is no ordinary colony - its 'loss' precipitates the end of the UK - which helps explain the extent (perhaps, sadly, even extreme extent) some will go to to maintain the status quo.
195

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 26/08/2008 14:12:58
This carefully plannned "British" jingositic and chauvinistic Patroitism rubbish that has been let loose on the UK; certainly had never no place in the Nation of Scotland and never will, that I was born in too.
How many more time have I to stress that my ancestors lost their right to be free within their own free Nation without them ever being consulted. Our great world - wide respected poet Burns stressed exactly the very same sentiments in so much off his treasurd works and poems, although, in a more eloquent manner.
English school children have been fed daily with this type off rubbish ever since they were given the opportunity to ATTEND a school.
Pre-war English school books are still around in vast numbers to expose the type of nonsense working class children were beiong exposed to by the state.
I have an extract in front of me at this very moment that reveals what the children south of the border were being taught, not much before I was being born in Ayrshire.
And before the usual and expected bevy of vile claims are let loose off being anti-English when Scots demand their basic right to determine their Nation's own future; most of my grand and great children are English and quite rightly, mighty proud off being so.
My late wife was English and loved Scotland but, she also loved her own country.
So why all this nonsense being spread about the breaking up off an event that the Scottish people had originally never beeen allowed to take part in, in the first instance ?
196

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 26/08/2008 14:15:22
I do not know abour anyone else but I am proud to be both Scottish and British.
If we were to field our own team, we would probably do as well as the Scottish football team!
Well done to all the British competitors - they have done us proud.
197

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 14:19:45
#215 Yeah 1

Salmond will of course welcome the Scottish contingent officialy. Would be a bit strange if he didn't.

Salmond isn't pinning his political future on a bit of flag waving rabble rousing. Oh, and also Salmond is a democratically elected leader. Unlike Brown, who's leadership resulted from a one horse race, chosen by an entrenched, discredited cabal.
198

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 14:22:53
"You're only a colony if you feel colonised. I don't - I feel fully enfranchised to participate in the political life of my country at both Scottish and British levels."

Yes, well some Scots do. Ever seen/read "Trainspotting"? Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's worth pointing out that there's a famous quote in which Irvine Welsh writes (through Renton), that Scotland is colonised.

"So let's be clear - are you condoning this? It was OK in the 1830s, so it would be OK for the Scottish Nattist Party after the Glorious Referendum?"

You contradict yourself, pretty badly.

For a start, a referendum is democratic, and can be voted on by everyone on the voters' roll.

You might as well argue that there was no place for non-Labour voters in the UK, after the last few general elections.

At least the "nattists" offer us the choice. Which is more than the Unionists do.

In Gibraltar, even today, I would like to see what would happen to any locals who were vocal in support of Spain. They'd be lynched. Their lives would be much more uncomfortable than those of unionists in an independent Scotland.

The Irish Civil War was fought between nationalists in Ireland, not between nationalists and unionists, get your history straight.
199

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 14:25:29
"I do not know abour anyone else but I am proud to be both Scottish and British. If we were to field our own team, we would probably do as well as the Scottish football team!"

Which still does better than many other teams.

British teams (as opposed to Scottish/Welsh/English) get hammered on a regular basis, whether they are the British Lions, rugby league team or whatever. But no one's claiming that they should be disbanded as a result.

There are plenty of UNIONISTS who support a Scottish Olympic team too.
200

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 14:27:06
"That would be the movie about Edinburgh which was mostly shot in Glasgow?"

That would be an irrelevant comment. Doesn't matter where it was filmed or whether you like seeing people take heroin... that was not the issue.

I don't even agree with the quote totally, but the more polite bit goes, "We can't even pick a decent, healthy culture to be colonised by."
201

Ugly George,

26/08/2008 14:29:17
217 Darien
Your attempted exercise in semantics is not getting you very far. How can perception be relevant in this instance. I might perceive myself to be the most intelligent individual on the planet but my perception would not make that a fact. Similarly your perception that Scotland is a colony does not alter basic facts.

I would suggest that both of the perceptions I have mentioned would be equally deluded.
202

kimba,

26/08/2008 14:34:33
LOL, who in gods name suggested that,at least those scottish atheletes have kicked that one into touch!
203

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 14:41:05
"Such a patriotic Scot, he can't even bring himself to live here."

Another red herring.

Irvine Welsh did this LONG after he wrote this book.

Perhaps you should think about why he lives in Dublin. It might be something to do with the fact that artists get tax breaks in Ireland, and film makers do too. That's why the Irish film industry is thriving, and many writers live there. Why can't Scotland do the same? And more importantly, why is it not allowed to do so?

With the mention of Dublin, you've just shot yourself in the foot.
204

Darien,

Panama 26/08/2008 14:42:32
# 228 "I might perceive myself to be the most intelligent individual on the planet but my perception would not make that a fact."

Indeed!

Believe me, I know what it feels like to live in a colony. Scotland is still treated more or less as a colony and there is only one way out of that unfortunate position.
205

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 14:43:34
#228 Ugly George

So if Scotland isn't an independent country, and isn't an equal partner in the union, and only enjoys limited autonomy as granted by its larger partner in the union, and has no control over its own resources or revenues, what is it then?
A dependency?
206

kimba,

26/08/2008 14:44:14
What a fine example to follow,sean(wife beater) connery is a total gomper,if you scots want to have a role model look no further than Chris Hoy,a proud scotsman but also proud to be British.
207

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 14:55:18
"Seek therapy. Soon."

For sluggishly progressing schizophrenia?

I believe that's what the Soviets used to diagnose dissidents with.

"A wife-beater and former milkman who only took up acting because he couldn't get a real job."

Another red herring. If you can't debate, get out the ad hominem. If Connery endorses independence, it's one thing, but if he opposes it, you wouldn't point out his failings.

Nothing wrong with being a milkman or an actor.
208

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 14:55:23
#235,

What does "gomper" mean?

Should it be added to the Scotsman's list of naughty words?
209

,

26/08/2008 14:55:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
210

kimba,

26/08/2008 14:55:43
236. you said it! connery is a waste of space, and Scotland can do better than listen to this waster.
211

Gordieboy,

Musselburgh 26/08/2008 14:56:36
#195 Michelle Fifer - excellent post. You iterate the point I was attempting to make at #62 rather more eloquently than I achieved.
212

kimba,

26/08/2008 14:57:07
239. Could not give a flying fig about his politics,but i can prove he beats women!
213

kimba,

26/08/2008 14:59:24
238. look in the mirror and you will find the definition of "gomper"!
214

,

26/08/2008 14:59:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
215

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 15:00:02
Sean Connery is an example to us all. He even crossed the Old Firm divide, although the unionist Gers fans have an issue with that! He's all things to all people. A truly great Scotsman!
216

kimba,

26/08/2008 15:01:06
From today's The Sunday Times - Scotland:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2090-1796810,00.html

I was bullied by Connery says his ex-wife

THE former wife of Sir Sean Connery is to claim in her autobiography that she was both physically and mentally bullied by the former James Bond star.
217

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 15:01:18
#243,

Thanks......so it means incredibly handsome and dashing!
218

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 15:02:40
Wife beating is disgusting, but it has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on the idea of a Scottish Olympic team.
219

Angus Mannie,

26/08/2008 15:03:37
246 kimba,26/08/2008 15:01:06

Aye maybe she s got a chip on the shoulder like you, its all hearsay
220

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 15:03:52
#246,

I bet your man(if you've found anybody daft enough) must be tempted sometimes, to give you a right hard smack in the puss!?

Somehow I feel he'd come off worse though.........
221

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 15:04:32
#222

"Salmond will of course welcome the Scottish contingent officialy. Would be a bit strange if he didn't."

Erm...yes and Brown also welcomed back the British contigent officially. What is the difference between what they are both doing? They are both seeking publicity on the back of the achievements of these athletes.

All politicians do it, why don't you take off your blinkers and realise Salmond is a politician and does things for his political benefit.

"and also Salmond is a democratically elected leader."

Salmond was chosen by his own party as SNP leader just as Brown was chosen by labour as their leader.

Salmond was not elected by the people - the Scottish election was for the PARTY to lead the Scottish Government, not for the individual leader - the election is not like the US presidential election where a particular individual leader is voted for.
222

kimba,

26/08/2008 15:05:07
Connery went on to say.
Then in Vanity Fair in 1993 he said: “Sometimes there are women who take it to the wire. That’s what they are looking for — the ultimate confrontation. They want a smack.” And he did just that,he is not only a waste of space,but by his own admission a "wife beater"
223

kimba,

26/08/2008 15:07:19
247. It means a " big headed,arrogant, idiot, just like you.
224

kimba,

26/08/2008 15:08:35
251. What "chip" would that be then.
225

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 15:10:19
Angus Mannie:

Managed to find any proof to back up your claim that the Scotsman 'made up' what Chris Hoy said?

If not perhaps you would like to admit that it was actually you making things up, rather than the Scotsman?
226

Peter A,

London 26/08/2008 15:10:24
I scan the Scotsman every day to check for business stories that might be of interest to me professionally. Now and again I stray onto stories like this one that catch my eye.

I have sent the link to this one around the office and to many of my friends and suggested that they read the posts. I have told them that the just will not believe what they are reading. Honestly, people in the rest of the UK just do not realise that there are people in Scotland with the type of view expressed by Gugga and many others. The vile racism, bigotry, and delusional interpretation of events are astonishing. A case for Scottish independence can not doubt be well put, focusing upon better governance etc. But this pathological hatred of the UK - the country that has protected and nurtured us all from birth and provided life chances that are only available to a small percentage of humanity is obscene.

Frankly, if this message board is actually reflective of Scottish views then the whole issue of Scottish independence could be resolved pretty quickly - the people England, Wales and Northern Ireland will insist on ejecting Scotland from the UK as soon as possible. I am ashamed I share a country with such bigots.
227

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 15:10:54
#256,

No it disnae! Check the on-line dictionary - it states a gomper is a small furry stoat-like animal, found primarily in the Blue Mts of Western Australia.

It's apparently quite a cute wee chap...
228

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 15:13:45
#259,

There's an idea, it would save a referendum!
229

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 15:51:05
#253 Yeah 1
"why don't you take off your blinkers"
"Salmond was not elected by the people"
"the Scottish election was for the PARTY"

So when people put their mark against the statement "Alex Salmond for First Minister", this was not an endorsement of Alex Salmond? I'd like to see Broon try the same thing.

Okay this is getting pretty lame, so I'm off. I will look in later. Perhaps you could explain why you think I'm blinkered. Because I disagree with you? Or because I'd like to see an independent Scotland?



230

I.Wright,

Glasgow 26/08/2008 15:52:05
Once more with feeling:

Scotland CANNOT have its own olympic team until it's reconised as an independent country by the international community. That's it. That's all there is to say and anything else is just sleekit political mischief making by Salmond and his slimy spindoctors.

And before the idiot Nats start jumping up and down and citing Hong Kong, The Cayman Islands, etc, etc - read carefully, numpties: the IOC changed the rules in 1996 to stop non-independent territories forming their own olympic committees.

Got that??

231

Marga,

Fife 26/08/2008 15:52:45
Hi, Ugly George 120 and others,

El Pais: What you say about how the Olympics are funded in the UK could probably co-exist with what it says in El Pais. This is as serious a paper as you can get.

Incidentally, in the same article, India is quoted as saying that with only 3 medals, they have no interest in chasing more - their money goes towards the health and education of their people. Scotland's not India, but it's still an interesting take.

Also googling the journalist, Juan Carlos Arribas, you will find that he was himself a professional cyclist from 1988-92 for several Spanish racing teams and that he's a respected writer in the field. For what it's worth.
232

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 15:56:44
#259 Peter
"the whole issue of Scottish independence could be resolved pretty quickly - the people England, Wales and Northern Ireland will insist on ejecting Scotland from the UK as soon as possible. I am ashamed I share a country with such bigots."

You just blew away your credibility and your sanctimony with that last bit. Shame, you were doing so well too.
233

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 15:57:52
here here 259, thankfully its only a minority(although they appear to all be on this page), the mindless few shout loudest because they know no better.
234

Joanna,

Cambs, England 26/08/2008 16:09:36
Peter A @ 259

Don't worry about the comments on here - this is fairly mild compared to some threads! In any case, you only have to look at some of the comments on Telegraph threads whenever Scotland is mentioned to realise that we're not without our own mindless bigots lurking about on the internet.

Or maybe its always the same person on all the threads! Step forward AJ fae Fife!! :D :D :D :D

235

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 16:11:03
#263

"So when people put their mark against the statement "Alex Salmond for First Minister", this was not an endorsement of Alex Salmond? I'd like to see Broon try the same thing."

They may have used that tactic but officially the election was for the party, not for an individual. Using a similar argument you could also say that those who voted labour in 2005 were voting for Brown as PM since it was common knowledge that Blair would step down half way through the next term.

"Perhaps you could explain why you think I'm blinkered. Because I disagree with you? Or because I'd like to see an independent Scotland?"

You are blinkered because you fail to see that Salmond, like every other politician, is using the Olympic athletes for his own political gains - to try and get some reflected glory off them, just as Brown is doing. You criticise Brown for 'welcoming' the athletes home but then congratulate Salmond for doing exactly the same thing.
236

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 16:21:46
Hoi Joanna,

I resemble that remark! :)
237

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 16:27:02
271 We havent fielded our fitba team for the world cup finals for over 10 years, other teams keep stopping us. Diddy.
238

Laddy Saunders,

26/08/2008 16:40:37
Dave, are you the only person on this page with permission to talk p1sh?
239

AJ Fife,

26/08/2008 16:41:10
#279,

Double world champions!

Plus we are right at the top of the tree when comes to curling - Scandinavian countries, as well as the US and Canada don't seem to have a problem playing against Scotland.

There is no reason why Scotland can't have it's own Olympic team, plus we'll get the equivalent of 10% of all facilities currently in the UK! That'll improve sport in Scotland no end......
240

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 16:42:41
#273 sm753,26/08/2008 16:16:26
"233 "Ananurhing" - is that a chest complaint?"

Lol. Thank goodness, a bit of humour on these threads.
You can't be AM2. Can you?

#270 Yeah1
"You criticise Brown for 'welcoming' the athletes home but then congratulate Salmond for doing exactly the same thing."

Eh? I never criticised Brown for welcoming athletes home? Same as Salmond, I'd be surprised if he didn't.

#259 Peter A

Is it because we ees Sco''ish!
241

Joanna,

Cambs, England 26/08/2008 16:44:57
AJ *281

"Plus we are right at the top of the tree when comes to curling - "

Must be difficult to sweep your brooms from the top of a tree. Is the trunk of the tree icy to let the stone slide down easily?

242

Joanna,

Cambs, England 26/08/2008 16:48:25
lol Dave :))

You'll be the Western Isles branch I suppose ! :D
243

Peter A,

London 26/08/2008 16:49:28
266, 268, 269, 274 - thank you for restoring some faith in the sanity of my fellow countrymen / women

Stupidity and bigotry are certainly not reserved to people on this thread. But the visceral hatred of the UK is truly shocking to me (and to the now 17 friends and colleagues who have looked this and have emailed me back).

266 - I would be very pleased to see a GB football team at the Olympics. However I fully understand why the various FA's are so against the idea. For them there is no upside, and a potentially huge downside. But if FIFA could be persuaded to categorically state that there would no change to the status of the home nations then we should enter a team. It would be a fantastic experience for the younger players. But if FIFA wont do that then the concerns of the FA's should take precedence over a one in four year event.

267 - perhaps my last point was slightly hyperbolic.
244

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 16:50:07
Come on folks, this isn't really a discussion forum, but a comments section. Stick to the article's subject matter.
245

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 16:53:48
#287 Peter A

"267 - perhaps my last point was slightly hyperbolic."

Peter. It was certainly some kind of bolics.
246

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2008 17:01:25
#273

The Parti Quebecois pushed very hard for Quebec to have it's own Olympic Team. I supported them. So your argument when it comes to Canada doesn't have a lot of legs.
Of course Scotland should be represented as a country at the Olys. It's only a matter of time. And money.
The first step is to opt out of the British imposed lottery and have a Scot-Lotto. Set up the Scottish Gaming Commission including government one-armed bandids in all the pubs that want. With all the cash earmarked for sports and culture facilities and development. Historic and heritage preservation too.
Complete with big signs plastered on the projects. "Your Scot-Lotto pounds working for you."
Then, of course, gain control of Scotland's natural resources.
Which really is Job One.
This is not exactly rocket surgery.
247

Andrew Allan,

26/08/2008 17:05:13
Can anyone remember the sheepish way Andy Murray was waving the union flag he had in his hand on the opening day of the Beijing games; this on its own should set alarm bells ringing as far as what Scottish athletes are allowed to say these days. Andy Murray jokingly says one thing wrong and his sponsorship is waved in front of his face, and so has become the union flag barer for Scottish sport, though a very uncomfortable one. Chris Hoy says if he hadn’t been in the GB team he couldn’t have achieved those gold medals, and yet if at the time he started cycling there hadn’t been the facilities in Scotland he couldn’t have developed into the cyclist he is today. In fact if he had tried to start cycling in Scotland now he probably wouldn’t get the funding the young English hopefuls for the London Olympics are getting.
248

1745,

Edinburgh 26/08/2008 17:06:34
Never mind the new track in Glasgow -repair or rebuild the old one in EDINBURGH.
Edinburgh City Council DO something worthwhile for a change .
249

Andrew Allan,

26/08/2008 17:14:01
If I was given a chance to represent Scotland at anything, or told the only good chance I had at winning a Gold medal was to be a part of a GB team but I had the choice which team I joined but I couldn't have both, I would always pick to wear Scottish colours. For me you support your country one hundred percent or you don't, and to pick GB over Scotland is supporting your country at less than one hundred percent.
250

malcolmcean,

26/08/2008 17:15:32
Peter A @ post 287:

I am afraid that I don't quite believe you. You are shocked by people who have a visceral hatred of the UK?

Firstly, I really do not think that those who support Scottish independence and the SNP (or Greens, SSP, Solidarity, or any of the other pro-Independence parties) betray some sort of 'visceral' hatred of the UK. From my own epxerience, the vast majority of people who are Scottish democracts (that is, those who support the complete democratic empowerment of Holyrood) are concerned with promoting democratic responsibility in a national civic forum called the nation state. They usually see the UK as a preventative force in realising this goal (unwilling to allow the Scottish parliament to have a fully responsive democratic relationship with the people who elect them - no direct taxation-represenation link among many problem).

There are many, many loonies on either side of this debate. Most of them do indeed write on the Scotsman forums. This is largely due to the fact that the Scotsman newspaper is essentially a taboid and its sensationalist approach to propogating its very unsubtle political message (anti-devolutionist - it was once pro - anti-Holyrood, fannatically pro-Labour), this approach positively attracts a tabloid mentality, fevered response. That you think that it is only one side of the debate that is inspired by this feevrish climate is, quite frankly, unbelievable. You are being extremely disingenuous here.

The west-coast broadsheet, the Herald, although still slightly pro-Labour, attracts comments which tend to be a bit more considered.

I doubt, though, Peter that you are really interested in looking into the finer points of the argument in any detail. You seem to be yet anout tedious political partisan - albeit with a sharper suit and a smoother tounge.

251

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 17:16:41
#293 sm753

Nah! Like I said. Too much humour and frivolity for AM2.
252

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 17:18:13
I wonder which Scottish athletes would have the guts to do this? O'Connor set a record which stood for twenty years...

"In 1906 O'Connor and two other athletes, Con Leahy and John Daly, were entered for the Intercalated Games in Athens by the IAAA and GAA, representing Ireland. They were given green blazers and cap with a gold shamrock, and an Irish flag (the ‘Erin Go Bragh’ flag). However, the rules of the games were changed so that only athletes nominated by National Olympic Committees were eligible. Ireland did not have an Olympic Committee, and the British Olympic Council claimed the three. On registering for the Games, O’Connor and his fellow-athletes found that they were listed as Great Britain, not Irish, team members.

"At the flag-raising ceremony, in protest at the flying of the Union Flag for his second place, O'Connor scaled a flagpole in the middle of the field and waved the Irish flag, while the pole was guarded by Irish and American athletes and supporters."
253

Masterpiece,

26/08/2008 17:18:13
Why would the Chinese or any other country, call Britain or the British anything other than English, after all that is the language we all speak throughout Britain.
254

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 17:19:56
"The west-coast broadsheet, the Herald, although still slightly pro-Labour, attracts comments which tend to be a bit more considered."

Ach, I'd wish folk in the Central Belt would drop this.

West Coast = Galloway, Skye, Argyll, Ayrshire and hundreds of other non-Weegie places.

Glasgow is on a friggin' river, not on the coast. It's only a tiny fraction of the west anyway.
255

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 17:21:02
"Why would the Chinese or any other country, call Britain or the British anything other than English, after all that is the language we all speak throughout Britain."

They have a different word for the language. But they don't call Australia, NZ, Canada, the USA or South Africa, England. It's not to do with the English language.
256

Ewan M,

Stirling 26/08/2008 17:21:37
Why does everyone have to choose to be Scottish OR British all the time now, is nobody allowed to be both?

It seems to me the Nationalists can't handle the wonderful achievemnets of a united GB team and what can be achived working togehter. Its not like the Nats to be seperarist and negative all the time is it?
257

Ananurhing,

26/08/2008 17:22:16
#296 Jock

Come on Jock! It's not rocket salad!
258

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2008 17:28:01
#296

If you don't know what rocket surgery is then you're no rocket surgeon.
Think about it. Or better still, don't.
259

Andrew Allan,

26/08/2008 17:38:47
#304.,Ewan M,Stirling.
‘Why does everyone have to choose to be Scottish OR British all the time now, is nobody allowed to be both?’

Philosophically speaking Ewan M. what you choose to be you support, and so you could say that if you are indeed a loyal supporter of what you choose you do so one hundred percent. If you then choose as you say, you at least split your loyalty some what, and are no longer the loyal supporter you think you should be.

’It seems to me the Nationalists can't handle the wonderful achievements of a united GB team and what can be achieved working together. Its not like the Nats to be separatist and negative all the time is it?’

Come come Ewan M., It is a wonderful achievement when you are first potty trained with the united help of you and your mother, but it is a far better achievement to perform the act solo wouldn’t you say from then on?

260

malcolmcean,

26/08/2008 17:39:01
Whistleperson writes:

"Glasgow is on a friggin' river, not on the coast. It's only a tiny fraction of the west anyway"

I never said a word about Glasgow. A little touchy, aren't we?

I mentioned the Herald and the west coast. The Herald deals with all news in what is now termed the greater Glasgow conurbation area. This area takes in nearly 90% of the enire population of the west coast (from Glalloway to Sutherland).

Anyway, my origional point stands: the Scotsman is a tabloid. I am more than willing to discuss this proposition if you wish.
261

Andrew Allan,

26/08/2008 17:42:31
#304.,Ewan M,Stirling.
‘Why does everyone have to choose to be Scottish OR British all the time now, is nobody allowed to be both?’

Philosophically speaking Ewan M. what you choose to be you support, and so you could say that if you are indeed a loyal supporter of what you choose you do so one hundred percent. If you then choose as you say, you at least split your loyalty some what, and are no longer the loyal supporter you think you should be.

’It seems to me the Nationalists can't handle the wonderful achievements of a united GB team and what can be achieved working together. Its not like the Nats to be separatist and negative all the time is it?’

Come come Ewan M., It is a wonderful achievement when you are first potty trained with the united help of you and your mother, but it is a far better achievement to perform the act solo wouldn’t you say from then on?

262

Jofrad,

Cornwall UK 26/08/2008 17:42:31
"Why does everyone have to choose to be Scottish OR British all the time now, is nobody allowed to be both? "

This is the nub of the issue. At the moment you can but come independence the answer will be no. Remember the Union has existed for longer than most of the world's nation states and independence will cause enormous disruption both North and South of the border and a degree of inevitable bitterness from what remains of the UK. I hope the people of Scotland realise this, I personally think independence will be a big big mistake for Scotland. Who can doubt that the whole of GB is greater than the sum of the parts.
263

Nikostratos,

26/08/2008 17:44:36
I suppose you could arrange a snp Olympics.....And the main event could be
'WORLD CLASS WHINGING ABOUT HOW HARD DONE YOU ARE'....

ATHLETICS
100 yard moan.............500m exaggerating what happened over the last 300 years.

FENCING

Nationalist sabre rattling

THE HOW BIG IS THE CHIP ON ME SHOULDER.....


THE MY FLAGS IS BETTER THAN YOURS.......

THE WALK FIVE HUNDRED MILES CARRYING THE MCRONE REPORT


AND OF COURSE THE OPENING EVENT COULD BE

ALEX SALMONDS PRESENTATION OF THE GOOD PARTS OF THATCHERS ECONOMIC POLICES HE SO ADMIRES AND WHY
264

Ewan M,

Striling 26/08/2008 17:47:38
#309 Sounds like you have the attitude of someone still being potty trained.

I think you find it a little difficult watching all the home nations working so wonderful well together? It might spoil Alex Salmond's dream of promoting seperation and insular thoughts in Scotland.
265

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 17:49:10
#294 Andrew Allan

"Chris Hoy says if he hadn’t been in the GB team he couldn’t have achieved those gold medals, and yet if at the time he started cycling there hadn’t been the facilities in Scotland he couldn’t have developed into the cyclist he is today."

Quite right, Hoy began cycling at the Meadowbank Velodrome - a facility the SNP-led Edinburgh Council are now knocking down.

If Alex Salmond cares so much for Scottish sports why doesn't he step in and stop his councillors from knocking down the velodrome?
266

malcolmcean,

26/08/2008 17:50:24
SM73 writes:

"Sadly, both papers are pale shadows of what they were. Mostly the fault of this 'tinterweb thingy - there's less money in newsprint now, and both the Hootsmon and Weegie are visibly retrenching towards being wee regional-type operations."

I think that the Herald will come out of this, though. They might be sold (again) or might have a clear-out at editorial level.

The Scotsman is in trouble because it is selling to a 'wee reional' unit, as you would have it. It can never get away from the fact that the area which it sees as its audience (Edinburgh and its environs) simply does not have a large, metropolitan population. It is fighting in an every decreasing circle as it tries to appease the small, hard-core blue-rinse readership in areas of Edinburgh.

It will have to 'go national' if it is to survive. I don not see the Scotsman making the necessary sacrifices (at editorial level) which would enable this.

The Herald, on the other hand, does serve a metropilitan area. With half the population of Scotland at its feet, it is in a much better position. With the retirement of its political editor, and perhaps the removal of its main editor, the editorial problems which has beset it recently will disappear (I would imagine that it will follow the editorial lead of the Sunday Herald and resort to complete impartiality - with columnists providing the angles).

267

Masterpiece,

26/08/2008 17:55:07
The people of the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are also Anglos as they came from Britain mainly England.

Scotland is seen throughout the world as England as we speak English and are part of the same island land mass.
268

European Scot,

26/08/2008 17:57:19
313 Nikostratos

So would the walk carrying the McCrone Report be an open to all event.
It was certainly never intended to be, by its original sponsors.
269

Yeah1,

26/08/2008 18:14:32
#317

"The people of the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are also Anglos as they came from Britain mainly England."

Very strange generalised comment. What about the millions of indigenous peoples from those countries? as well as the millions of immigrants to those countries from Asia, Eastern and Southern Europe, and South and Central America amongst others? Are they also 'anglos' who 'came from Britain'?
270

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:23:19
260. Not in this case, you are a snide little gomper,who quite frankly are a disgrace to both scotland and GB.
271

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:24:31
320. yep, all 29% LOL!
272

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:26:19

Connery pulled out of a planned autobiography earlier this year. It is understood that he was wary about having to address the bullying allegations that will appear in Cilento’s book.

A spokesman for Connery declined to comment.
273

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 18:30:09
Separatist and negative?

What's negative about saying we CAN have an Olympic Team, and do WELL?

Seems the people who say "No", and "We canny", are the ones thinking negative here.
274

WHISTLEBLOWER,

26/08/2008 18:31:40
"THE HOW BIG IS THE CHIP ON ME SHOULDER....."

Unionist Scots are the chippiest of all - their favourite words are "Can't", "canny" and "gonnae no"!
275

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:38:21
325. Lets put this into context.
Scotland won 4 gold medals, Wales 1, England 15,speaks for itself really.
276

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 18:41:15
"325. Lets put this into context.
Scotland won 4 gold medals, Wales 1, England 15,speaks for itself really."

Let's put your comment in a wider context.

1996 Olympics - GB (all parts) 1

Erm, that's about it. I'd rather have a team that won no medals than none at all. It's the competing not the winning that counts.
277

Media 1,

cape town 26/08/2008 18:42:38
Never in the history of Britain has one group of people been so utterly pathetic than the nationalist Scots of the last 20 years.
Cringeworthy beyond comprehension they continue to humiliate Scotland with their petty hatred, which they conveniently cloak in National pride in an attempt to hide their true colours.
THERE WILL NEVER be a Scottish olympic team, WE ARE BRITISH and always will be..
You dont need to save the queen or even believe that god will. But you need to accept that Scotland is and always will be part of the dynamic British union.
278

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:43:37
328. Then my bigoted friend,you are a moron.
279

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:45:13
329. Spot on.
280

kimba,

26/08/2008 18:48:01
331. Thanks to a great Brit, Chris Hoy! who does all his training in Manchester!
281

malcolmcean,

26/08/2008 18:52:16
Mediaperson at 329 writes:

"THERE WILL NEVER be a Scottish olympic team, WE ARE BRITISH and always will be"

Oh dear. Were you smashing your fist on the desk while typing that?

Calm down. What will be will be.
282

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 18:53:37
"You need to accept that Scotland is and always will be part of the dynamic British union."

It is now, but it won't always be so. The British Union probably won't exist in a thousand years, so it's not going to be forever.

As for dynamism - we've got that in the can-do attitude of Scottish independence, rather than the can't-do chippiness of Unionism.
283

Media 1,

cape town 26/08/2008 19:01:12
malcolm

No need for me to get angry and take it out on the desk, I was merely attempting to highlight what I was saying in terms of the union and team GB.
Long may both exist!
And they will.
284

Ewan M,

Striling 26/08/2008 19:07:32
Agree with Kimba WHISTLEBLOWER your comments are extremely paranoid.

I think you embarress the thing you seek to represent, Scotland.

Well done team GB. These nationalist hate the success we are achieved as one.
285

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 26/08/2008 19:14:34
I wonder if these athletes actually understand how hurtful their comments are.I watched the final of the Javelin contest with my Finnish wife.Three Finnish athletes were in with a serious chance of a medal.Only one gained a medal but I observed the pleasure of my wife and her family in the fact that Finland were competing as Finland.

I do not think that the number of medals won,or the personal gratification of athletes is what the Olympics is about.However,if athletes are only concerned about winning,they should consider that any independant nation can be succesful if they choose to be.Many nations with much smaller populations than the British State have been more succesful when we factor in population size,
286

,

26/08/2008 19:20:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
287

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 19:23:59
The founder of the modern Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, said at the London Games 100 years ago that “the important thing in life is not the victory but the contest; the essential thing is not to have won but to have fought well”.
288

malcolmcean,

26/08/2008 19:26:49
Media @ 339 writes: "I was merely attempting to highlight what I was saying in terms of the union and team GB"

So this sort of excited rhetoric is quite normal for you then?

And he also writes: "Long may both exist!
And they will."

You see, it is not just the excitiable way that you express yourself, mediaperson, it is the content too.

Are your opinions really informed by the sort of brittle certainty implied by this last comment?

It really does betray something potentially unhealthy when a human thinks like this.

289

Marga,

Fife 26/08/2008 19:28:06
219 Watie and Whistleblower:

Try these comments for size - I think they show that Scots aren't paranoid (or at least not alone) when they feel ill at ease with this political exploitation of the GB Olympics situation.

Back in June, when Spain won Eurocup 2008, some British residents in Spain made these comments:

"I personally was dreading the Spanish win from the start mainly for non-footballing reasons. The gloating from Madrid grinds as does the 'everyone is Spanish now' agenda. You have to live here to appreciate and understand what it is like. The Spanish press is constantly in denial that there are various unresolved national questions here. Winning Euro 2008 won't make them go away although they are using the victory to try and make them", and

"Many people I spoke to today found the post match manifestations of Spanish nationalism, for historical reasons viewed with intense suspicion by Catalans and Basques, to be particularly disturbing, if not offensive".

If I was Salmond, I'd steer well clear.
290

Islay Herald,

26/08/2008 20:11:47
I'm not really all that interested in sport but all I can really say is that I can and will only support one team and that is Scotland. Team GB? Not interested. However, if my fellow Scots want to stand up and snivel over somebody else's national anthem ('God Save the Queen') then that is entirely their choice. As long as they don't expect me to join in with them.
291

LondonCalling,

26/08/2008 20:25:06
I dream that we have an English team in London 2012 or at the least a British team of Wales and England. I can't bear the thought that the Scots will again have a single gold medal winner, like Chris Hoy in Beijing, and the likes of Salmond and Connery then reckon their "time has come".

It's time for independence for England. Scotland is an anchor on our future.
292

Lady Golightly,

26/08/2008 20:27:45
349 LondonCalling,26/08/2008 20:25:06

"and the likes of Salmond and Connery then reckon their "time has come"."


Connery's time may well have come by 2012 - he's no spring chicken is he?
293

kimba,

26/08/2008 20:43:44
348. What a total stupido you are, is that all you nats can do,tell you what, if and when you can hold a conversation WITHOUT slagging someone off,let me know.
294

kimba,

26/08/2008 20:48:28
350. So have many others,if this guy had agreed with you, then that would of been ok!
295

kimba,

26/08/2008 20:49:47
353. Your point is?
296

LondonCalling,

26/08/2008 20:51:43
#351 For more than 300 years the English have had to put up with whingeing Scots - and Connery is just one of '000's, albeit one who looks quite ridiculous on account that he rarely sets foot in Scotland.

Believe me, the biggest Scottish nationalists are English people living in London, Kent, Surrey, Sussex etc, paying their taxes to subsidise free uni places for students in Scotland while having to pay for their own kids in England.

If we were ever given the vote, Scotland would be independent tomorrow.

68% of English people want independence for our own country, yet Scots politicians like Brown and Darling who are making such a mess of things will never give us the chance to vote.

And I do agree with Salmond. Where are we going with a GB football team for 2012? It would be an English team. Everyone knows that. Why not call it English and call all our other medal winners English (or Welsh) too. Bar Hoy, they aren't any more British than Connery.
297

kimba,

26/08/2008 20:57:59
358. Don't make me laugh, you bigoted twerp!
298

Jofrad,

Cornwall UK 26/08/2008 20:59:11
What is plain from viewing this site is that Scotland is deeply divided over the independence issue and consequently independence could lead to a bitterly divided nation. Not a recipe for success.
One thing is for sure though and that is the English are not divided are are proud to be British and English which is what the Union is all about.
299

kimba,

26/08/2008 20:59:34
359. NAW,WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT,GUESS IT'S YOUR NIGHTMARE PAL!
300

kimba,

26/08/2008 21:01:59
361. ABSOLUTLY, on that note i'll wish you all a very good night.
301

kimba,

26/08/2008 21:07:31
363. When you get a brain of some kind,you may wish to refrain from such moronic behaviour,now,if you wish to support salmond and his band of eejits,fair enough,but,please DO NOT stop others from having their own opinions.
302

kimba,

26/08/2008 21:09:06
365. LOL, have better things to do than communicate with a gomper of your ilk.
303

kimba,

26/08/2008 21:11:29
The book by Diane Cilento, who was married to Connery from 1962 to 1973, will also describe his resentment at her early success and will claim that he “wasn’t able to cope” with the fame brought by the Bond films. good night.
304

JG,

Fife 26/08/2008 21:16:07
For goodness sake, listen to the people who know what they are talking about! Yesterday, some of you lot were holding up Alan Wells as an inspiration (as, indeed, he was) now today, when he's backed up Chris Hoy you've now decided HE is wrong too. Don't listen to people who were/are involved in sports at the highest level - naw, you take heed of an old actor who cleared off to foreign parts at the first chance but accepted his knighthood nonetheless and a self-seeking, smug faced politician who will undoubtedly have his own agenda.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!!
305

walter,

26/08/2008 21:17:43
#341
I wonder if these athletes actually understand how hurtful their comments are.

Do you wonder how hurt they feel when certain elements of their fellow Scots decry their success at these games because they represented (and were proud to do so) Team GB, or how hurtful it must be for them to hear fellow Scots say they are not wanted to represent Scotland under the Saltire at the Commonwealth games as they were proud to represent the UK under the Union flag, or how hurt they feel when fellow Scots call them traitors, unpatriotic, and being bought and sold for England's gold.
Least we forget the Scottish government personnel who refused point blank to even mention let alone congratulate their team mates who helped them win some of their medals for no other reason than they were non Scots or should I say they were English.
306

Eve,

Scotland bonnie Scotland 26/08/2008 21:18:38
Hoy was greeting on the news the night. Think he's upset by the way the press has taken his comments.

He said nothing about NOT wanting a Scotland team, just consernce about lack of faccilites and traing opertuties. So may be the goal should be to have our own for the 2016 Olmipic games. BUT we should start to make preperattions now. So athlets can feel like they'll get the best facilltess and a training availbele to them within Scotland.
307

kimba,

26/08/2008 21:22:21
Eve. get your facts straight. "The cyclist, Scotland's most successful Olympian, returned to Britain yesterday and reiterated his support for Team GB.

He said he was "a proud Scot and a very proud Brit as well", stressing the two identities were not mutually exclusive.
308

Eve,

Scotland 26/08/2008 22:02:31
#374 kimba: I'm sorry did you no see Scotland Today at 6pm on STV or was it Reporting Scotland at 6.30PM on BBC Scotland. One of the 2 canae rember which cause it was a few hours ago. Just rembemer the emotion of the guy.

He was tears in his eyes, and what he was saying was no where near as negative of what the press would have you belive. You cannae fake yer body languge. This wasnae something that was just written in words, which can betraid in many ways.

You ovbousley didnae see this news item, judging by yer comment.
309

JG,

Fife 26/08/2008 22:31:02
#381 Col. BlimpIV

Since when did politicians give a monkeys about the concept of right and wrong? Expediency would be the guide - whatever "ist" you belong to!
310

European Scot,

26/08/2008 22:32:21
377 danielrober

" Yep the SNP wins on this one. No team GB because a bunch of people miss the point of sport and wish to corrupt it."

Agreeing to a GB football team will jeopardise the position of the individual FA's.
Whatever assurances might be given now, sometime in the future you have handed FIFA the excuse to insist on one Football Association and representative for a UK side. It will at the same time provide Westminster with a chance to further water down Scottish identity by removing a powerful vehicle for expressing that identity.
The man who Gordon Brown wants to manage the GB football team is Alex Ferguson.
He had this to say about it :-

"Countries have their own identity, their own patriotism. It has been mooted for a number of years by FIFA at the World Cup that Great Britain has a team. It would be impractical in that sense.
"Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, even England, all have their own identities, so I don't think it is a starter."
Asked if he would be interested in managing such a team he said:-
"I hope I'm still on this planet in 2012 first of all. I don't need any commitment to anything like that."

He made these comments last month, and clearly has misgivings about the whole idea.
You need to look in another direction if you are worried about a bunch of people wishing to corrupt sport.
311

Conan the Librarian™,

26/08/2008 23:13:10
385
Good Evening Dan.
An interesting website I came upon.

http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-south-ossetia-the-war-of-my-dreams/

http://exiledonline.com/photo-essay-russian-army-in-south-ossetia/
312

WHISTLEBLOWER,

Pissaff 26/08/2008 23:19:29
"I never said a word about Glasgow. A little touchy, aren't we?"

You called the Herald a "West Coast newspaper". Get your geography right!

"I think you embarress [sic] the thing you seek to represent, Scotland."

Come on who reads the comments? I only look at them once in a blue moon myself. Today being a blue moon.
313

Conan the Librarian™,

26/08/2008 23:45:05
390
Um...Which one are you again?

Indeed Umm. Trivial posts of warfare, death and suffering always ruin a good debate.

About sport.
314

Boswall,

26/08/2008 23:45:36
I'm disgusted at many of the comments on this thread posted by so-called Nationalists.

When most of the country is getting behind the recent success of the Scottish athletes the narrow minded nationalists/SNP are sniping away from the shadows - bitter at the success of a united nation in Team GB, to the point where they are turning on their own.

I say this to the raving Nats on this thread - you should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.
315

JG,

Fife 26/08/2008 23:51:42
#389 Col. BlimpIV
They are all politicians and not really out there to gain "brownie points". Membership of the SNP would be no more damaging to someone than being (say) a member of the Green party. Many of them had other jobs (Nicola Sturgeon was a lawyer!) and their motives for being in the SNP (as in any other party) was to get into power. It's got nothing to do with "right or wrong" - it's all about "in or out".
316

Conan the Librarian™,

26/08/2008 23:58:43
393
Ah, a mispelt Unionist hero.Who is your Johnson Boswall?

And you may be right in your disparaging of "so-called" Nationalists.

More like Unionist sh*tstirrers.
317

Marga,

Fife 27/08/2008 10:18:35
If anyone out there is still interested, see Simon Jenkins in the Guardian today (27.8):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/27/olympics2012.olympics2008

"For 2012, the big winners are chauvinism and profligacy.
After Beijing, the London Olympics should be a city festival of sport, not a nationalist pageant. But that's not the IOC way."

"The BBC's sports editor even had the cheek to announce that this ... was not for her to decide "but a matter for the International Olympic Committee", as if that corrupt and unaccountable body now enjoyed droit de seigneur over the British Treasury."

"The London games should be a festival not of nationalism but of sport in one city.

I fear there is no lobby for that."
318

The Scotchman,

27/08/2008 10:43:09
- Scotland can stand alone at Olympics.. says Chris Hoy. The Edinburgh cyclist rubbished reports that he thought the idea was "ridiculous".

(NB: article above... 'Hoy blasted plans for Scotland to go it alone as "ridiculous"')

"I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous.

"If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games."

http://tinyurl.com/6apykg

So your headline / article here is just utter spin and total honk, as per Hoy himself! Oh dear! Will you be printing this story? I think not! >:-O
319

Armstrong Cowan Again,

27/08/2008 12:06:45
#170

165 - Numpty - do you think a lot of people in Scotland consider themselves British?
our money built Wembley, our money built Scottish parliament, bloody hell its like reading a kids argument.....

I am not sure who is being more childish - Can we move on in the process of gaining independence without this nonsense Facts A) All Scots are British by birth - it is not a choice or a feeling - I'm Scots , British and European - but of course not English all of whom whether they like it or not are also British

B) Scotland needs a balanced self supporting economy and after Independence England will still be south of our border and both countries will be EU members.
If I am not mistaken oil accounts for 4% of current UK GDP.
Conclusion ; If we want to convince the majority of Scots to dissolve the Union let's get more positive and constructive non-oil industry suggestions for improving and creating sufficient wealth to keep everybody happy.

Pettiness, bitterness and in some obvious cases in numerous postings- nonsensical hatred of "the" English will get us nowhere fast.

320

kimba,

27/08/2008 12:56:57
401. You are absolutly correct in what you say,except for one small point,scotland will not obtain independence for at least another 20 years,and it will not be Salmond who leads scotland at the time.
321

Eve,

Scotland 27/08/2008 20:44:29
#379 danielrober: What are you on about!!

It was the press that paint him in the negative light.

I was unware that any SNP offisals or any other pro-Scottish indpendent organsiation had said anything to ofend the man.

All that was really said was Scotland should have an Olympic team. And so they should, if Hong Kong are allowed one then so should we. There was no negativity or insults throwen. They only came to light after the press made it should like he was totaly against the idea, and theos where made by people who weren't thinking straight. Having an off moment. It's sometime hard hearing something negative about your country, whither it's in a news paper, on the telly or else where. People don't allway recate in the best way or manner.

BUT then again the French would act in a simliar way to that sort of thing. And so would other nationailtys.
322

Eve,

Scotland 27/08/2008 20:52:32
#393 Boswall: Scot Nats are anything but narrow minded!

If they where, they would have a clue what they were doing or what they stand for. And it's crystal clear that it's the SNP NOT only have visonary BUT also have a plan to achive it and it's working better than the unionist parties plans.

It's clearly evendent that Scot Nats are less likely to discriminate against people from diffrent backgrounds of ethinctiy, religion etc. Than unionist I've seen it while growing up in Lanarshire.
323

Eve,

Scotland 27/08/2008 21:00:36
#402 kimba: Why 20 years?

To me that seem like you've counted it on yer fingers and toes.

Any way joke aside. I really don't see the union lasting another 10 years. I give it 5 years tops, theres way too many flaws which are highly evenent.

Us Scots like have our deveoled parlement and some people in England (NOT all) Want to take it away from us. If they do that then the vote for independence will go through the roof in Scotland. AND if they let things go the way they are then it will be a mixture of the Scots wanting more and more even if its gradualy and some English people becoming gellous and independece support going up in both sides of the boreder.

I kid you NOT look at how many year of develotion it took to get the SNP in. NOT many eh!!!!
324

Jofrad,

Cornwall UK 30/08/2008 10:03:45
368 Jock Wilson.
I understand what you're saying and why but the fact is that the majority of Britons are English and this is the reason for the perception of GB from abroad. This is not the perception in England. When Chris Hoy won his golds in Beijing the English media almost without exception referred to him as a Scot, likewise Nicole Cooke being Welsh. When an English athlete won gold the reference inevitably was to their home town or area.

 

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