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Campaign to honour 'Dunbar martyrs'



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Published Date: 15 February 2008
Historian calls for memorial to Scots soldiers who died as prisoners of English
NEAR the north-west door of Durham's magnificent cathedral rises a mound topped by a memorial to the Boer War.

Legend has it that the mound contains the bodies of hundreds of Scots prisoners, who died of disease and starvation, in a little-remem
bered 17th century chapter in British history.

Now, after a one-man campaign by amateur historian George Wilson, cathedral officials are to consider placing a memorial to the Scottish soldiers who died there.

The prisoners were Covenanters captured by Cromwell's troops at the disastrous Battle of Dunbar in 1650, and then forced to march south.

Last October, Mr Wilson set out to have the "Dunbar martyrs" recognised with a memorial. He even called for their bodies to be exhumed for a Christian burial.

The cathedral administrator, Paul Whitaker, said a memorial could bring closure to the issue.

But he insisted that excavations and an extensive search of cathedral records shows no evidence of the Scottish soldiers' remains in the mound or anywhere else nearby.

"There's absolutely no evidence of any mass piling of bodies. We can't put a memorial saying here lie the remains of so many Scots."

Mr Whitaker said the cathedral spent a "lot of time and effort" trying to uncover the facts.

In 1650, according to the Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland, about 3,000 Scots were killed at the Battle of Dunbar and 10,000 taken prisoner. While the numbers are impossible to verify, it is suggested that about 4,000 were marched south, destined for transportation, with 1,500 dying or disappearing en route. Anywhere between 300 and 1,600 are said to have died at Durham.

Mr Wilson, a human resources manager, became fascinated by the story when he moved to Dunbar recently.

"These soldiers died in the place of their imprisonment which was considered at the time as a foreign land," he said. "It seems very odd that this whole chapter in history is unknown to Scots."

He claims the backing of local historians and the Scottish Covenanters Memorial Association, and about 200 people who have signed up on his website, including an American descendant of one Durham survivor.

One supporter is Dunbar historian and author Roy Pugh.

He said: "Now is the time to lay the ghost and say sorry with a memorial service and a symbolic Christian burial to mark the grave there."

REMINDERS OF BLOODY BATTLES

MEMORIALS to the deaths of Covenanters, the Scottish Presbyterians who signed the National Covenant in 1638, are dotted across Scotland.

After the Battle of Bothwell Bridge in 1679, about 400 were held in Greyfriars Churchyard for months with little more than bread and water, before being transported or executed. Many died and were buried there.

In East Kilbride, a memorial remembers not just hanged men, but also 200 people who drowned when a convict ship was wrecked off Orkney.

The award-winning Scottish historical novelist James Robertson set his book The Fanatic in the period. A similar incident to the Battle of Dunbar unfolded in 1645 at Newark Castle, near Selkirk, after the Battle of Philiphaugh between the Marquis of Montrose and Covenanters, he said.

The Covenanters won, and up to 1,000 Irish soldiers and their families along with Montrose were slaughtered.





The full article contains 559 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 February 2008 10:21 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

truthsleuth,

15/02/2008 01:05:32
Honour them by suing the English everyone else is doing it.
2

Navvy,

15/02/2008 01:36:37
The Covenanters won, and up to 1,000 Irish soldiers and their families along with Montrose were slaughtered.

This is the other side of the Battle of Dunbar coin

Nasty bloody times
3

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 15/02/2008 01:58:57
So, d'you reckon this is the time to ask for an apology and reparations?
4

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 15/02/2008 04:05:30
U are a bunch of whiners .

The Irish fought back but the English Armies were never able to conquer them.

The Irish are the only race on the Planet, whom the English failed to control . Thus the "Fighting Irish" of Notre Dame.


Keep squawking SNP and uundians, and te Africans, and the Americans (my lot), And the "lands down under". And the Asians.

Logic has no place in the Scotsman.

GC

GC
5

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta 15/02/2008 04:06:59
corrections:

u Indians, the Africans,
6

Pilrig.,

Livingston 15/02/2008 06:18:00
1 - perhaps if the English kept to their patch instead of trying to rule the world nobody woulf sue them.

Cromwell the great Christian hero. GC, do you know his troops slaughtered men women and children alike at Wexford and Drogheda. Yet the London Patliament in it's wisdom saw fit to erect a statue to this murderous swine.
7

Royster,

15/02/2008 06:25:32
I don't know much about this period in history but didn't Cromwell invade Scotland because a royalist army had earier invaded England from Scotland? I don't think Cromwell was a social worker.
8

beeree,

local 15/02/2008 06:55:23
Why does the Scotsman appear to attract morons.

Autre temps. Autre mores.

What is the big deal about the cruelty of these events?

Drogheda for example took two centuries before it was discovered that it was an atrocity. History is about learning about mistakes and then hopefully not repeating them.

This story is a nice little decoration about an old event but its contribution to knowledge is miniscule.
9

Encephalon,

15/02/2008 07:38:22
#5 "The Irish are the only race on the Planet, whom the English failed to control . Thus the "Fighting Irish" of Notre Dame."



Thought that particularly soubriquet was more to do with American grid-iron than history!

If you truly believe that then you are as ignorant of Irish history as you are of Scottish. All the great Empires practiced divide et impera and used subjugated peoples to subjugate other peoples including the Scots and Irish in both roles.

No people or country has a monopoly of the desire for freedom, nor has any been "controlled" by the English -(who incidently deep down are really French with a touch of German)or any other conqueror for very long. All those who desired have eventually rebelled and won their freedom including Indians, Africans, Irish and even the good ol' US of A.

As for Scotland watch this space-we are only in the UK because up until now it is an arrangement that has suited both parties and they slyly engineered a reverse takeover 400 years ago!
10

donald,

glasgow 15/02/2008 09:07:03
The Cromwellian Army committed a greater massacre in Dundee than Drogheda, where the army was allowed to loot, pillage and rape for four days.

I believe 600 Irish Confederates and Alasdair MacColla's Gallowglasses are buried outside Edinburgh castle to.
11

donald,

glasgow 15/02/2008 09:07:15
The Cromwellian Army committed a greater massacre in Dundee than Drogheda, where the army was allowed to loot, pillage and rape for four days.

I believe 600 Irish Confederates and Alasdair MacColla's Gallowglasses are buried outside Edinburgh castle to.
12

GP,

15/02/2008 10:16:50
10# aye it was always said that it was the
"in-fighting Irish"
The locals in Boston have asaying that it was peaceful until the irish landed similar in New York.
Funny old world.
13

Rob7,

England 15/02/2008 10:18:49
Can I campaign for Scotland to appologise to me having a Scottish bloke living in my street - he is a drunk and a fool. The police are always comming out to try to keep him quiet.

Oh and whilst I'm here can you pay me loads of money cause when I was little I was forced to listen to bagpipes evey Saturday and I have been badly traumatised ever since
14

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 10:23:45
Dont remember being taught this at school. I remember being taught about the English civil war with the Cavaliers and roundheads but they skipped over Cromwells excursions North. In fact the only thing I remember being taught about in school with regards to Scottish history was Bonnie Prince Charlies watered down relationship with Flora McDonald they never even gave us the juicy bits.
15

Hamish Scott,

15/02/2008 12:03:37
#14

Rob -
1.Sorry.
2.Post your name and address and I'll send you a cheque for 50p (that's 'loads of money' for a Scot).
16

Neil,

Glasgow 15/02/2008 12:11:31
One of the unfortunate things about battles is that people get killed. As a society we seem to be trying to out-victim each other.
17

Lianachan,

Highlands 15/02/2008 12:22:13
What about the pacification of the Highlands, carried out not by England but by a unified BRITISH government? When will this even be recognised, let alone apologised for?
18

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 15/02/2008 13:08:05
Well done George, thanks for the email.

Glad to finally see one of the papers pick it up, although why Tim Cornwell is writing it under the banner of art correspondent is beyond me.

During the slaughter of the 4000 Scots at Dunbar, Cromwell was besieged by an hysterical laughing fit. His commanders claimed it was 'God's Laugh'.

The article would be better if there were reference to the discovery of the corpses during excavations for a central heating system in 1946. Having just come through WW2 it was decided to basically fill in the mass war grave and say nothing about it.

It is entirely down to George Wilson and his studies that we are aware of this today. Well done that man.

Hopefully, 'Cromwell in Scotland' might be added to the new Scottish history curriculum.
19

P Rayner.,

London. 15/02/2008 13:28:05
Anybody says anything more about Oliver I´m going to sue them .
20

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, Fl 15/02/2008 13:29:03
#10 Encephalon - I've found that taking any notice of Galactic Cannibal's rambling just gives me a headache and responding to it is like washing a paper hankie.

Let me know how it affects you.
21

Pilrig,

Livingston 15/02/2008 14:49:20
11 really ? Never heard of this but perhaps my knowledge is miniscule : ) I thought most of the casualties amongst Montrose's Irish troops occurred at Philiphaugh.
22

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/02/2008 15:20:10
The Reformation Eh ?

One of the worst losses of libraries and sacred buildings that Scotland has ever known.
Truly barbaric.
23

Pilrig,

Livingston 15/02/2008 15:38:19
9 - Women and children butchered by the troops of "God's Englishman" and you ask what's the big deal ?
As you ask, why does the Scotsman seem to attract morons ?
24

beeree,

local 15/02/2008 17:28:15
As I say autre temps. Autre mores.

There was no big deal except for bigots who try to use history as a crutch for weak arguments.

Repeat question - Why did it take two centuries to realise that Drogheda was an atrocity?
25

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 15/02/2008 18:54:11
Of course, the biggest crime was when Cromwell tried to make off with the Scottish Crown Jewels, failing there he managed to empty the national archives of hundreds of years Scottish history, seal them in barrels and put them on board a boat for London, which naturally sunk. Leaving Scotland almost unique in Europe having literally no written history of its people....
26

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 19:59:10
26

So thats why we got the made up version at school.
So did Charlie and Flora settle down together or what?
27

GP,

15/02/2008 20:21:24
Well this was taught in east lothian schools.
Everyone knows that cromwell destroyed most if not all churches on route but left Roslin Chapel alone.
Stop pretending you didn't know these things you just did not listen in primary school.
28

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 15/02/2008 20:49:58
#27

Err Battle of Dunbar 1650

Flora and BPC the summer of 1746.

Notice anything there?
29

Pilrig.,

15/02/2008 22:25:47
What's the weak argument and who are the bigots ? I mean if a knife is stuck into the stomach of a child that's an atrocity is it not ? Whether it be today or the 17th century.

Since when has it taken 200 years for Cromwell's action in Drogheda to be regarded as an atrocity ? It was always regarded as such in Ireland (though the Orange fraternity tend to regard "Ollie" as a hero, then again the same organisation in Scotland regard a bigot and a blackguard like John Cormack as a hero). I suppose the teaching history in Irish schools is of a higher standard than their Scottish counterparts.
30

Pilrig.,

Livingston 15/02/2008 22:28:03
28 - as a matter of fact his troops used Rosslyn Chapel as a stable for their horses.
31

Shamus,

Glasgow 16/02/2008 01:14:36
You can obtain plenty of info in Greyfriars Church Edinburgh. The trouble with the so called protestant churches is that they do not teach their own history. Probably scared to offend someone.Maybe a Danish cartoonist could help.
32

Peter Imperfect,

Penelope's Pitstop 16/02/2008 08:33:02
Why in a story regarding an important event in Scottish history are all these tims ie #7 Pilrig talking about Drogheda?

There were many massacres throughout history committed by the winning side-Bannocburn was no different-it is the nature of war-get over it Paddy! Cromwell was a great Englishman-but he was severe on all who opposed him-the Scottish Covenators of the day should have allied with him -they had much in common rather than siding with the Stuart king. The Stuarts- a curse upon them-were a disaster for Scotland!

#23 Absolute tosh-no doubt another mhick-if it was not for the Reformation and the subsequent enlightenment we would still be living under the darkness of Rome-we true Scots are proud of our forefathers throwing off the shackles of the Papacy!
33

Pilrig.,

Livingston 16/02/2008 14:32:06
What lodge do you march wi' Peter ?

As a matter of fact the discussion involved Cromwell, the Milosovec of his time, and writing as a Proddy I regard him as a disgrace to Protestantism.

Aye the Covenanters, Scotland's very own Taliban.


 

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