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Don't you dare to knock our town - we do that ourselves



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Published Date: 08 March 2007
"IT SHOULD be Scotland's third town," says one Cumbernauld resident - "but it isn't."
Such sentiments were heard over and over again yesterday in one of Scotland's most maligned towns - and it was agreed Cumbernauld's main problem is its shopping centre. Built in a fit of idealism as one of Scotland's "new town" projects, it is now a sprawling, decaying, half-empty warren of buildings crying out to be used in a remake of Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange.

This is not a minority opinion: the entire town centre won a public nomination for demolition in Channel 4 series Demolition as the worst building in Britain. David Berry, a policeman, will tomorrow leave Cumbernauld, where he has lived almost his whole life, to take up a post in London - and does not intend to return.

"Cumbernauld is a disaster. It's being pulled down by all the people who should be helping it: the council, government and politicians. I was travelling back from London last week, chatting to a man from Somerset. When I told him I came from Cumbernauld, he said 'Oh that's the place with the awful town centre'. Its reputation goes before it."

Lynsey Fraser, a customer service adviser out shopping with her mother and baby son, Luke, is also planning to leave as soon as possible: "My house is going up for sale and I'm moving to Fife. I'm a trained care assistant and my husband is an electrician, so we'll find work. I'm definitely not staying. I don't like Cumbernauld at all, it's a dump. There's people taking drugs and I'm frightened to go out at night."

One of the recurring themes is a lack of things for young people to do or places for them to go - and fear of crime in the area.

Jade Taylor and Stephanie McGuire are both 16 and at Cumbernauld High School. They have come into the centre during their lunch break, but neither seems keen to stay. "There's nothing for us to do in the town," says Stephanie. "If you want to go for a night out you have to go to either Coatbridge or Glasgow. We used to have youth clubs and centres but the council has shut them down."

Jade adds: "This place is really going downhill. It's a dump. There are no shops in this centre suitable for young people."

Both say they want to go to university when they finish their schooling and neither intends to stay in Cumbernauld for any length of time.

But among the criticism and gloomy predictions, the town remains a reasonably prosperous place where it is possible to enjoy a good standard of life.

Many people speak of the ease with which they could reach the countryside and good access to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Dawn Cumming, 40, a support worker, says: "I quite like it here. Where I live is a two-minute walk to open fields. And it's very central, you can get to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Falkirk."

When it comes to politics, most of the people have a strong sense of their Scottish identity but are less passionate about independence than in some other places. Where there are strong feelings, they are focused on the way they feel the town is treated by North Lanarkshire Council.

Alan Weir believes Cumbernauld has not been the same since it was switched from Stirlingshire to North Lanarkshire as a result of boundary changes in the 1990s: "There's a lot of money in this town and the council are reaping this through high rates and putting it into the likes of Coatbridge and Motherwell. They took all the hardback books from the local library and transferred them to Coatbridge.

"Quite honestly, Cumbernauld should be the third town of Scotland after Edinburgh and Glasgow. But it's not and it never will be, because all the money is going elsewhere."

Despite universal frustration with the town centre there is a glimmer of hope about current developments. Elaine McCluskey, who lives in nearby Kilsyth, believes things might get better: "They are building a shopping centre here, and that'll include Next, Halfords and TK Maxx, and there's a retail park being built as well. They will bring a lot of people and trade to the town. I'll probably shop here rather than go into Glasgow."

'THE TOWN CENTRE LOOKS LIKE THE BACK OF A FACTORY BUILDING'

"I think of myself as British. I came here from Lincolnshire last June. I moved here to try to live an independent life in supported accommodation as I have spina bifida. I find it a very friendly place."
Danny Killen, 31

"I would like to demolish the town centre, but the council don't believe it - though it is regularly slated. I believe in independence. We would do a far better job if we didn't have to keep answering to that mob down there."
Elizabeth McGregor, 47, Inland Revenue

"We need to get rid of this Labour government and then we would be all right. We should go for independence. As it is, the Executive is just another layer of government and is a waste of money."
Scott Taylor, civil servant

"We are treated like a milk cow for North Lanarkshire. We are paying for a lot of the work that is going on elsewhere. Back in 1993, the Tories had a green paper on the future of local authorities and they put forward the idea of new town authorities, cutting them loose from the others and letting them stand alone. I think that should still happen.
Scott MacFarlane, Cumbernauld

"When we have people to stay they drive through the town centre and don't realise it is the town centre. It looks like the back of a factory building. There isn't enough for youngsters to do here - or for the elderly either, unless you fancy bingo or line dancing."
Margaret Nicole, 68.

"I came to see what Cumbernauld looks like - I might move here. It's a nice place, quite small. It's a bit more quiet and I think living here would be cheaper than in Glasgow."
Hermantha Berara, 43, refugee from Sri Lanka who lives in Glasgow

"There's nobody building here for young people, nobody catering for young couples. My son was looking for a two-bed house or flat and had an awful lot of bother. They are just building four-bedroomed homes. The money that walks out of Cumbernauld every weekend to Glasgow and Stirling is unbelievable."
Florence Tonner, 52, Inland Revenue

The full article contains 1093 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Bill, Dunblane,

08/03/2007 01:48:22

What's it called?

And yet, they KEEP voting Labour - Cooncil, Holyrood, and Westminster.

Why?

2

dixon,

08/03/2007 02:07:10

I don't know where they get the idea that Cumbernauld switched from Stirlingshire in the 1990's. Up until 1975 it was part of an oddly detached part of Dunbartonshire which also included Kirkintilloch.Then it became Kilsyth & Cumbernauld district. It sounds like the takeover by N.Lanarkshire has been a disaster.Get them out on May 3rd.

3

Navvy,

08/03/2007 02:10:14

Bill, I couldn't agree more. It is not far from all those other towns where Labour cronieism has been repeatedly exposed yet thes folk come back for more of the same. They deserve what they have voted for.

As an aside, when it was part of Stirling my cousin taught at the school

4

Faye,

Scotland 08/03/2007 02:10:45

#1 Bill. It's called a dump.

Cumbernauld; welcome to concrete city!

Guaranteed to make people feel bad, ill and suicidal.

Lots of nice people/ I feel sorry for them.

Its admirable that they continue to survive with a smile in such a dismal ugly place.

5

Jock MacSprog,

08/03/2007 02:34:21

this should be a lesson for the citizens of Edinburgh of what happens when you let philistine councilors like Trevor Davies, Donald Anderson, et al approve any building project in the name of "modernity"

6

WBB,

Perth, Westrern Australia 08/03/2007 06:08:12

Good, honest and hard working people who live in Cumbernauld and other similar towns and city vote Labour because of exactly that. They are good, honest and hard working people who believe that a caring, fair socialist party has their best interests are heart.

It has been like this for centuries and voting rights have been passed down the generations. The problem now is that New Labour and their crony cooncillors, Armani suits and all, have forgotten exactly where they have come from and who they should be helping, i.e. the very people who put them in power.

You cannot expect the people to vote Tory, or Lib Dem, as it just will not happen - one hope is the SNP and what a freer Scotland could offer. A Scotland free of having to play petty politics to satisfy London HQ.

As for how you solve it long term you probably cannot do that without knocking areas of the place down. That would need to be funded of course but a new Scotland would want a new face lift surely.

7

,

08/03/2007 06:51:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 426377, Article id was mapped to record!
8

,

08/03/2007 07:20:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 426398, Article id was mapped to record!
9

morris,

edinburgh 08/03/2007 07:45:51

8
Unfortunately I have to agree with you Eric.Glasgow and the surrounding area (a sizeable part of Lanarkshire in fact) is a one party state,run by imbeciles and is Scotlands pits.
It needs major investment,but first it needs to dump Labour who have supervised its decline for years.It cannot be anybody elses fault,because there is nobody else who has ever been in charge there!
One of the biggest problems is the reaction of some Lanarkshire residents who will see this as an attack on them ,when they should recognise that the solution to this is not denial,but mend your ways,starting with dumping the political party that has lined its pockets in expense claims but done absolutely nothing to regenerate the area.
Glasgow is our largest city.It should be(and many parts are) , a city to be proud of. The commuter towns of Glasgow should reflect this status.Both are abysmal failures, but can be resurrected.
The money required will never happen until Scotland leaves the United Kingdom.That will never happen until Lanarkshire opens its eyes !
The balls in your court ,start kicking it!

10

Encephalon,

08/03/2007 07:46:33

#8 have to agree-All part of the weegie triangle which is such a blot on our landscape eg whooever thought up "Coatbridge Sunnyside" was having a laugh.

When was Cumbernauld ever in Stirlingshire???Sounds like wishful thinking-thought it was always Dumbartonshire prior to the 1975 restructuring-maybe they are confusing it with Kilsyth?

11

Maelstrom,

Larbert 08/03/2007 07:50:01

I stayed in Cumbernauld for 2 and a bit years after moving from Glasgow. The place is soulless and the older part of the town has not seen any proper investment for years. I went out my way to avoid the shopping centre which was a mixture of low end retailers and jeans shops, it is not a pleasant place to shop despite the recent redevelopment, I hope the Antonine Centre (once actually finished!) is better - I'm sure it will be.

Meanwhile over the other side of the M80 in the new developments the council have again spent very little putting in infrastructure whilst happily flogging off land all the way down to Croy.

I left a year ago for the Falkirk area and have found it to be much better in terms of transport links and services - having lived in a number of different districts Falkirk actually seem to have got things right in terms of land sell off matching regeneration as far as I can see and there are some lessons to be learned by NLC looking to their near neighbours.

The main issue in Cumbernauld lies with the council - Labour held - many parts of Cumbernauld actually have SNP councillors - go figure why the money is being poured into the Motherwell area Labour powerbase of the council. (...think Ravenscraig)

Cumbernauld has many hard working honest individuals and families who deserve somewhere they can once agan be proud to live in but I suspect unless there is a seachange of power or the town moves into a different local authority the reality will see their hard earned council tax being diverted to other areas of North Lanarkshire.

12

eric,

Lothian 08/03/2007 07:52:08

9 ,Since Ravenscraig closed it has never been regenerated up until recently .The folk of lanarkshire deserve better.I agree with you about labour.Ive been labour all my life ,But im changimg to SNP with my family .We experienced the NHS on the cancer wards and its Like a feild hospital.

13

Franklin,

08/03/2007 08:27:11

Cumbernauld = Carbuncle.

If residents voted in a town Council filled with people who actually CARED about the place, something might be done about it. Until then, it will always be Scotland's carbuncle!

14

John1,

Stirling 08/03/2007 08:30:36

I lived in Cunbernauld back in 1974. Although the new town was 10 years old then it looked as though the concrete had been poured the day before. The town centre was the only place with shops. It looked. and looks, like a children's toy box which had been upended and scaled up. Architects gave each other awards for it and then went and lived somewhere else. There wasn't a tree in sight. The opening of Woolco (better class of Woolworths) was a big event and improved shopping dramatically - I could buy more than one kind of cheese at last.
The current Cumbernauld is a big improvement - more, and more varied, shops, lots of trees, the whole place looks better. Given the comments of those who live there there is still room for improvement, but not much appears to be needed to make the place a huge improvement on what it was in 1974. Labour control holding it back of course, so it's milked for the benefit of Labour's stronghold areas, (it was keen SNP when I was there) but what makes people think independence would improve things? The same numpties will be running the place in the same way. Try voting in councillors, MSPs etc with some contact with reality and a desire to serve the public instead of playing the game of 'Socialist Republics'.

15

,

08/03/2007 08:31:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 426511, Article id was mapped to record!
16

eric,

Lothian 08/03/2007 08:37:47

Well, may as well try someone else see if they can make 1% improvement

17

Flabskin,

Mbra' 08/03/2007 08:44:03

When I moved to the Abronhill area of Cumbernauld in the late 60s there must have been 10-12 thousand people living there - in other words the equivalent of a decent-sized market town. The 'civic amenities' amounted to:

1corner shop style grocer's shop
1 'community centre' comprising an empty hall with some chairs.

Ane that, quite genuinely, was our lot.

If I ever find myself in a lift with anyone who was a member of the 'Cumbernauld Development Corporation' I'll kick his @rse so hard and so often he'll think I'm The Mighty Thor and there's a hundred of me...

18

James,

Dundee 08/03/2007 08:45:51

North Lanarkshire, home of PORK BARREL POLITICS.

Cumbernauld has had the temerity to return SNP councillors, and it pays and pays and pays.

Will the Scotsman wheel out a 'big gun' to defend the Union on Labours record in NL?

Oh though not, as scrutiny or media exposure are the LAST thing these criminals want.

19

eric,

Lothian 08/03/2007 09:01:49

Get bob the builder into Cumbernauld,

20

Choose a nameSteven,

Saltcoats 08/03/2007 09:02:32

#6 "You cannot expect the people to vote Tory, or Lib Dem, as it just will not happen"

If that's the case they deserve all they get - people get exactly the type of government they deserve and if they don't vote for change they will get more of the same. I know Cumbernauld well and would suggest that change is exactly is what is needed there.

I fail to see how "good, honest & hardworking" and labour go hand in hand. For years labour has been the party for those on benefits, whether these benefits were deserved (in some cases) or not (in many, many, more). If there was more wealth circulating in C/nauld we wouldn't have to rely on the public sector or politicians turning things around.

21

jamjar999,

Denny 08/03/2007 09:05:53

It makes good reading, the comments I mean- Cumbernauld to me is a place to go to get to Asda. I have never dared to venture anywhere else. There are no street plans, no advisory signs or invitations to come to the city centre. I tried once to get through onto the A73 road south but after going around and around, finally retraced my steps from Asda to the M80 and then went from there. I am sure that Cumbernauld was never at any time a part of Stirlingshire. Voting this year for any party in the elections as long as the name does not start with an "L" who have dragged not only Cumbernauld down, but the whole country (IMO) lining the respective pockets as they go. Go now! There is probably enough money available to rebuild the whole of Cumbernauld if the Scottish Parliament is anything to go by. There is a similarity in the appearances.

22

GP,

08/03/2007 09:07:07

1# you say it all friend.
Labour has run Scotland downm for over 60 years with it's questionable practices in local government.

23

Dayvan Cowboy,

08/03/2007 09:49:26

At least Cumbernauld Town Centre is on the agenda now , but due to the economics of our times , the best they can hope for is a LIvingston type town centre.

Good luck to them , it does look rather Karl Marx Stadt.

24

Dayvan Cowboy,

08/03/2007 09:50:50

The biggest political problem we have is that NO-ONE is worth voting for. Especially not that clown Mevbroon , he seems to think disliking Labour strongly enough may be enough to get him into power.

Who knows...

25

Toad,

Toad Hall 08/03/2007 10:17:25

Cumbernauld - the only place I know where it's quicker to drive through thetown centre than to use the bypass.

26

,

08/03/2007 10:22:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Tim,

Perth, Scotland 08/03/2007 10:26:48

What I don't understand is why all the drivers *dawdle* past on the A80. It's just a hill and it's going past Cumbernauld, for goodness' sake - get a *move* on!

28

Chikderic,

Inverness 08/03/2007 10:28:16

#24 Don't knock Karl Marx Stadt, now Chemnitz. I have only ever driven through Cumbernauld, but I have stayed in Chemnitz. It may not be the most interesting town in Germany but it is far superior to Cumbernauld. There is a huge square in the middle and it has two or three reasonable restaurants, not just chippies and carry-out kebab shops. Also I can't remember it being full of neds and schemies.

My solution for Cumbernauld would be to make it a ghetto for Labour councillors, past and present, and architects. These people construct places like Cumbernauld, let them live there.

29

Boab,

Glasgow 08/03/2007 10:37:13

Can anyone supply a link for a picture of the notorious Cumbernauld shopping centre, please?

30

Erse,

Middle East 08/03/2007 10:56:22

Wasn't Gregory's Girl filmed in Cumbernauld?

31

MWM,

Argyll 08/03/2007 11:02:19

#30
You can see some pics of this lovely shopping centre at http://glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/cumbernauld_centre_photo...

32

WBB,

Perth, Western Australia 08/03/2007 11:18:43

# 20 I agree with you. If the people do not change who they vote for then yes they will get what they deserve.

However my point is that real Labour was the option for a lot of these areas but now that party has long since gone. Hence my comment on hard working, honest and decent people voting for a party that once existed.

New Labour has sold these people down the river and beyond and you are right this new lot, still called Labour unfortunately, are so far up their own backsides that they cannot see the damage they are causing. Lots of rethoric, hand outs and all the crap that goes with it instead of good policies and actions.

Bevan would be turning in his grave.

33

morris,

edinburgh 08/03/2007 11:42:50

8
Oh dear Eric
They removed your contribution which everybody up until then including me agreed with? They even left 9 where I agreed with you.(even I would have removed mine before yours)!
To be fair they have removed 15 which is fair enough.It probably contained common sense and truth .We cant have that !
What on earth was wrong with 7 I have no idea

34

Peter M,

Spain 08/03/2007 11:57:41

I'm originally from Cumbernauld and left as soon as I could in the late 80s.
I thought it was great as a kid (what do they know!?) but by the time I left school it was going down the tubes.

I do agree that North Lanarkshire council has neglected it (don't forget, most Noddies are 'ethnically' Weegies so that won't have helped) and the transport system has always been a joke.

I mean, how many towns of its size in Scotland/UK/Europe/World etc has it's main train station miles from the centre?

But for all that, I've mellowed a bit, moved abroad and now have a soft spot for it.

It's ugly but we love it....and that's as good a metaphor for all the things in life which really matter as I can think of.

35

Neil,

9% Growth Party 08/03/2007 12:00:38

Perhaps with PR in the new council elections meaning that council make up more closely reflects how people vite the Labour dictat over North Lanarkshire will end.

Alternately sell the town centre building to Asda & see if they can run a more interesting centre than the council.

36

Allan(handofgod137),

08/03/2007 12:19:39

#6 If your so keen on a socialist Scotland, why not come back and pay the taxes, in other words put up or shut up!

37

morris,

edinburgh 08/03/2007 12:22:09

37
Its not often that we agree Neil,but everybody will definitely benefit from the introduction of STV (indeed any PR system is at least an acknowledgement that New Labours one party state is not the answer).
Its just a pity that we had to be dragged to democracy,instead of insisting upon it.
The question is what are we going to do with it?
Returning New Labour is the last thing we want !

38

Alasdair,

08/03/2007 12:26:26

The new shopping centre is a mess. The people od Cumbernauld have been shat on for so long that it seems the council feel they can allow developers to get away with any old rubbish, but this should not be allowed!
Look at the state of the development, and tell me if it will improve matters.. there's pictures here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=337774
Scan down the page half-way for the pics. A windowless box. No contribution to the urban fabric, and certainly not a 'town centre'. The planners, councillors, developers and architects responsible should be strung up.

39

Dod fae Orkney,

North Sea 08/03/2007 12:27:06

The word "down" is missing from the headline!!

40

eric,

Lothian 08/03/2007 12:28:57

8 I can live with that:) Its only right Motherwell & Wishaw are being seen to with regeneration now,maybe in 20yrs time Labour will get around to Cumbernauld ,Its became like another easterhouse .

41

Harry Haggis,

08/03/2007 12:42:03

When I grew up in Cumbernauld in the 70's and 80's I quite liked it. yes, the amenities weren't great - if you wanted anything other than groceries then you had to go to Glasgow etc, but I still liked it. Only when it got to the mid 80's did I realise what an eyesore it was with the Woolco shutting down and being left derelict ... like the access bridge from one side of the town centre to another. it was an interesting experiment which didn't work - flat roofs in Scotland, paths and underpasses to keep people from walking by the roadside in the attempt to reduce road deaths ... but so poorly maintain and badly lit that people were too afraid to walk on the paths so walked on the roads .. and road deaths increased as a result.

It may have some interesting history, some nice green spaces (Cumbernauld Park or Glen depending where you are from) but it also has some shocking housing suffering from damp (old Millcroft - it has been redeveloped so it would be interesting to know if the same problems exist).

It was a good idea and may have worked if they had remained outwith North Lanarkshire.

Still, we have Gregory's Girl (and the follow up imaginatively titled Gregory's Two Girls) to assist our reminiscences ... and of course the ads with Dominic the Dog.

I'm off for some therapy now.

42

SAW,

Cumbernauld 08/03/2007 12:45:47

There is one good thing about Cumbernauld.
Its (new) Community Radio Station REVIVAL Fm on 100.8 (and the internet @ revival.fm). Six months of excellent community based broadcasting. More people should tune in to its positive message...and encourage its involvement in and contact with community issues - including the "state" of Cumbernauld's town centre and the other serious issues so many of the others commenting above have made.

43

Call Me Al,

Fife 08/03/2007 13:17:58

FAO Lynsey Fraser in the article proper. For goodness sake have a good look at Fife before you decide to move!!!!!!!!!!!!

44

SAW,

Cumbernauld 08/03/2007 13:20:51

#45 There is nothing underhand about the evangelism. It is quite overt. It is what the people of Cumbernauld...and all other town's etc... need. It there is a change of heart in the people of Cumbernauld they will care about themselves, their neighbors, the town of Cumbernauld - what it is, what it has and who is running it. This can only be a change fo the better. Then the people of Cumbernauld will not "knock" their own town, change it for the better and inspire others with the change. Note that I live in Cumbernauld - and desire to see it change.

45

Classy Lassy,

Stirlingshire 08/03/2007 13:29:36

I was born and raised in Cumbernauld and most of my family still live there. I actually find some of the comments posted highly offensive. Like any town there are deprived areas which are not pretty, but this represents only one side of the picture. There are also many affluent areas in Cumbernauld, no mention of those I note! It seems that while private housebuilding has been wholly embraced by NLC they have failed to build facilities to meet the increased demands generated by all the new builds. This is hardly the fault of the average voter in Cumbernauld. How dare anyone blame the voters for the state the town is in. They have to vote for someone and the candidates from all parties are frankly much of a muchness. Incompetent, amateurs who are playing at politics - with devastating consequences. Do they care about the impact of poor planning and even poorer decisions ? It seems they don't. And as a nation are we not in a similar position when it comes to national politics? There is simply no-one worth voting for, no-one who we can say with any degree of confidence, will do the job well. Finally, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, take a good look at what the nation has voted for and continues to vote for - Cumbernauld does not stand alone in this.

46

LadyM,

Dundee 08/03/2007 13:40:01

I have heartfelt sympathy for the people of Cumbernauld. Everyone wants to feel proud of their hometown and it is heartbreaking to feel disappointed in/let down by the place that you love. I feel the same way about Dundee, which though now on the up, has suffered immeasurably from years of destruction and reconstrcution - all ill thought. Thankfully, some of the Victorian buildings and structure remain but to think of what has been wantonly destroyed brings a tear to my eye. Corrupt/just plain incompetent labour councils over generations are responsible for nothing short of architectural vandalism - this applies to many Scottish towns and cities not just Dundee. Sadly, the lack of common sense and vision continues to his day. Local goverment in this country has a lot to answer for.

47

Noel,

Glasgow 08/03/2007 13:58:14

Every timer I look at the comments here my heart sinks. Yes get rid of Labour by all means --- but the SNP??? I am as proud of being Scottish as anyone in this country but who wants independence? Do they think the SNP is going to make any difference? Have they never heard the old adage "United we stand, divided we fall?" Alex Salmond would be a disaster too, a man like Sean Connery who lives in another country and keeps telling us what we should have! If these two think Scotland is so great let them come home here and fight to get rid of useless and dishonest politicians. Mind you I doubt that such a person exists. Meantime, let's wait for a change of Government at Westminster. At least there are some intelligent people in THAT Parliament.

48

SAW,

Cumbernauld 08/03/2007 14:14:02

AM - The real issue is what Cumbernauld / the people of Cumbernauld needs. It needs to change....more community...a more positive attitude and better leadership / "government".

I take you point about the banner headlines for Revival Fm. I would defend that there is anything underhand. Would you be kind enough to accept some further information? Perhaps give the station a listen? - and see that there is much in the way of community content (and a desire to do more)...If you like sport: The sports updates and particularly the Saturday sports programme (14:00 to 18:00) are brilliant.
Revival Fm is a Community Radio station. The broadcasting licence was granted on the basis that Cumbernauld and the surrounding area did not have a radio station that, different from other stations, had a Christain output / ethos and the sation had proven its ability and worth over 10 years of RSLs. If you listen to the Radio Station there is no mistaking that it is Christian in ethos. The Community aspect must however be maintained.
Interestingly it was the Scotsman that set-out the stall for Revival Fm in the following article.

The Scotsman - 9th September 2006
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1332382006

Also see Revival Fm website - about - what the press say.

49

IWright,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 15:10:15

#51
Noel - "Alex Salmond would be a disaster too, a man like Sean Connery who lives in another country and keeps telling us what we should have!"

But you favour being governed from London!

50

eric,

08/03/2007 15:14:07

Well theres no signs that labour are going to make things better,So Im dumping Labour for SNP .mainly because the mess of the NHS.

51

lisa,

Perth 08/03/2007 16:09:55

Had a colleague there who had to move. After his third car was stolen and burned, no nsurance company would touch him.

Must be a great place if you have cold hands - hot hatch has a whole new meaning in Cumbernauld.

52

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 16:38:10

.51 Noel.

Yes I totally agree. Plenty of intelligent people in THAT Parliament lead us into Iraq and honours scandals and trident. 'let's wait for a change of Government at Westminster' - it is Labour or Tory that makes no difference. So please get a grip and wake up there is nothing United about the workings of the Union.

You dislike the SNP, that is fair comment but please, avoid vacant comment that SNP wont make any difference. Please enlighten us then, what is a(nother) change of westminster government going to do exactly?

53

Media 1,

08/03/2007 17:02:55

Cumbernauld is nasty!

54

Media 1,

08/03/2007 17:04:27

David McVicar: Voting for the SNP is like putting money on Portsmouth winning the premiership next season...A waste !

55

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 17:34:44

#58 AM.
You misunderstand my post. My examples are nothing to do with socialism, purely self determination. I am saying changing one westminster party for another is replacing one mistake for another. I dont care what their politics are they are all self serving. We have been there and done that.

I dont consider myself either left right or center. I just see a recurring situation, did a bit of research tried to determine what direction Scotland needs to go in.
Dont get me wrong, even with Scotland as a nation state many of the same hangers on will still be in power and many of the same problems will exist as they do today. However independence will bring about real change in many areas.

Just remember the SNP probably will not get a majority but they will be at worst a close second. The tories + your vote is a minority party in Scotland as things stand. However the Tories have a good chance of winning the UK elections even if they dont gain a single seat in Scotland. As has happened before Scotland would be governed by a party which is a mere minority in this country. At the moment I dont care if Scotland goes Loony Left or Raving Right just Intelligently Indep.

56

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 17:50:05

59. Media 1. 'Cumbernauld is nasty!'
Glad to see your back again gracing these forums with your great contributions and astute comments which are on average just underneath the level I could expect in a primary school playground.

Bit of a waste of a functioning keyboard though.

57

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 18:17:23

“Leftist policies have created a large criminal underclass..”
Hi AM - does that mean that Rightist policies would not create a large criminal underclass?
Perhaps not, Rightist policies in eg., the USA have created a large criminal ruling class.

58

Julia,

AL-The South 08/03/2007 18:26:31

I am shocked that there is a place in Scotland that looks like it was built by the Russians during the Cold War. That's exactly what it resembles, i.e. those building in East Germany or the Czech Republic. Wow, what a nightmare. Is there any hope that things will really improve?

59

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 18:32:29

58. AM
“Leftist policies have created a large criminal underclass..”
Hi AM - does that mean that Rightist policies would not create a large criminal underclass?
Perhaps not, Rightist policies in eg., the USA have created a large criminal ruling class.

“We need policies that set the scene for a resurgence in personal responsibility..”
‘personal responsibility and collective national responsibility can better be achieved through sovereign government. Self-reliance, increased self-esteem and political maturity. With self government Western nations usually experience higher standards of living and quality of life.
Why Conservative voters wish to continue with the Union which in practice differs from historical ’Tory’ doctrine such as ‘personal responsibility as it’s claimed Scotland is subsidised by Westminster and could not survive as an independent nation - surely this is anathema to Conservative thinking. Also remember that at the time of the Union the Tory party was not in favour of the Union - it was the pet ploy of the Whigs, for one reason to achieve victory in the War of the Spanish Succession, (1701-1714) - the first war using ‘British troops. Prior to that Scotland’s only adversaries had been England and some raiding Vikings - how things were to change.
Basically, historically and ideologically, Tories should be for sovereignty.

60

Robbie,

Souvereign NZ (wouldn't want it any other way) 08/03/2007 19:21:11

68. AM, Glasgow #66 Robbie
Hello again AM - posted one part twice as it did not appear to ‘connect’, don’t know what’s wrong this morning me or computer or computer and I.
You mention, “culture of dependency on the state..” “scapegoating the union with England rather than looking inwards.” all these will continue or worsen with either a Labour or Conservative Government in Westminster.
What really is the reason so many Unionists do not wish Scotland to take its place with the smaller sovereign nations of the world, such as Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Denmark, Singapore, Finland, New Zealand, Netherlands; countries among those with highest quality of life (Economist).
UK 29th and Scotland way behind that.
It cannot be economics as countries can be independent but have closer economic ties - no problem there. Culturally, politically, tourist wise, maturity wise any sort of ‘wise’ and ‘xxlly’, Western independent nations
fare better (Sovereignty is the ‘norm’ all over the World and will happen eventually)..
The only reason I can see is the professed ‘subsidies’ and this is what the wee Labour voters have been brained washed with. “We’re too wee, to dopey, too poor, - we get money from England- independence is too scary, etc., etc.” These I can sort of understand but for Tory voters they should be screaming “self-reliance, no hand-outs, personal responsibility, let’s do it ourselves, etc., etc.” All slogans that are in line with an independent self-governing Scotland.
BTW both Right wing and Left wing ruled nations have crime but larger nations and cities seem to have more and more violent. No matter what is said robbery and violent crime is proportional with a poor underclass (white collar and corporate crime is huge is a different phenomena)

61

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 19:28:49

#65 AM
'neither Labour nor the SNP have either the inclination or the ability'.
You still miss my point. SNP is the vehicle for independence. Independence, I believe is the vehicle for change.

So you have looked in inwards yourself it seems and came to the conclusion that the Tories are the best way forward. What did they do the last time that was so good then? Seems > 90% of the country beg to differ....

62

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 20:16:52

AM - Your first response disgreed with me on Socialist policies whether unionist or nationalist. I did not make any socialist preference.
I agree, general politics is not going to change anytime soon no matter what happens, but independence will be a force for change, it cannot be anything else.
You think voting for Toryand Tory policy is going to get you the change you desire. Now that is entertainment.

63

Bill, Dunblane,

08/03/2007 20:18:39

AM - You keep knocking the SNP and lumping it in with NL - sure a lot of people voted for them, but when were the SNP running things in Cumbernauld on their own?

I disagree fundamentally with most of your posts, BUT you are spot on regarding the radio station.

Drag people into something without being upfront about your motives.

Bit like our Mev - A Tory through and through, but unwilling to propose anything - just knocking the other parties without saying what he's about.

64

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 20:32:15

Sorry AM, I dont make up my mind on who to vote for based on issues such as 'the bought houses look filthy by comparison'. Sounds like a bit of chip there!

65

Paula,

08/03/2007 20:43:26

When I was growing up everyone wanted to live in Cumbernauld as it was new and shiny. What a pity it isn't like that now. It should be on par with the other new towns East Kilbride and Livingston.

At least Palacerigg, the country park, is still going strong!

Just a mention though, do refugees now get to pick and choose where they can have a place to live? Wondering as I keep hearing about long, long lists of people waiting for council houses, homeless families and it seems a bit unfair if this is the case.

66

Andromeda,

out there 08/03/2007 21:02:12

I moved with my parents to Carbrain in the early '60's. We were the first inhabitants of our house on Torbrex Road. We thought it was great with everything brand new and we had very nice neighbours. We moved after a couple of years because of my father's job.

Many years ago I actually saw photographs of Cumbernauld in a book on modern architecture. It was described as a very forward-looking town which separated the pedestrians from the traffic.

I have never been back, but from what I read it seems that its time has passed.

67

morris,

edinburgh 08/03/2007 21:16:48

Those who suggest that the SNP would make no difference really do look stupid!They will bring to an end the United Kingdom! I find it hard to imagine anything more radical than a multi national state ceases to exist!
I am also saddened that anyone thinks we attack Cumbernauld for reasons other than we want to see her flourish.Its people who are afraid to embrace change who never learn anything.
They hold Scotland back and far from being offended,YOU are the reason Scotland requires change.
The only Union that we need is the people of Scotland,united in determination.Some will never learn this.

68

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 21:22:38

74. AM, Glasgow
“ #69 Robbie - "What really is the reason so many Unionists do not wish Scotland to take its place with the smaller sovereign nations of the world"?
You ‘replied’. “I can't speak for "so many Unionists" - only for myself.” and then went on to enumerate reasons why Scotland should actually be a sovereign country and be able to at last (in the words of other Unionists) “pull its socks up”.
You did not address the points that I made about:
1) Economics as countries can be independent but have closer economic ties - no problem there.
2) ‘Tory voters should be screaming “self-reliance, no hand-outs, personal responsibility, let’s do it ourselves, etc., etc.” All slogans that are in line with an independent self-governing Scotland.
3) Historically the Tory Party was against the Union - it was the pet ploy of the Whigs, for one reason to prolong and gain a victory in the War of the Spanish Succession, (1701-1714).
4) Smaller sovereign nations such as Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Denmark, Singapore, Finland, New Zealand, Netherlands all have a higher QUALITY of life than UK 29th..
5) Conservative voters ideologically should be against subsidies and be advocating fiscal responsibility ie., AN INDEPENDENT Scotland responsible for forging its own destiny.
6) Independence is the normal state for nations to strive for and attain.
7) You never explained why you feel it is Leftist policies that create a large criminal underclass when observations would indicate that Rightists policies are more inclined to foster a poorer society and endemic violent crime (happy to discuss that at any time - remember I said both Right wing and Left wing ruled nations have crime.
8) Apologies for repeating previous post but do get frustrated at certain Unionist not actually answering issues that they have raised and been replied to.

69

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 21:43:50

“….has Scotland, though its past voting patterns, shown itself capable of self-government?” obviously AM you think not but this is an opinion not a historical or provable fact.

In most Western democracies, the Legislature, whether in a parliament or congress is adversarial (even those with proportional representation - which citizens had hoped would remove the worst of combative politics and make government more consultive ) and so one person’s opinion will nearly always be that the ‘other side’ are not capable, not far-sighted, untalented, etc. This is all your are saying AM, that one set of Unionist (NL) are not your set of Unionists and not as efficient as YSOU (your set of Unionists ), even though your set of Unionists have been in power many time before. Surely for Conservative voters it is time to have the strength of your convictions and say no to dependence and subsidies and yes to self-reliance, and fiscal freedom (note I rarely if ever use the F word in sovereignty debates as I do not argue that the Scottish people are not free - they are not independent nor sovereign). If you have some good Conservative members or potential members than the will be able to play their part in the Legislative of their own nation and may increase their vote when their party is independent from London.

70

ScottyPom,

Abronhill, Cumbernauld 08/03/2007 22:11:54

I've found most of Cumbernauld to be a very grey depressing place with a severe shortage of affordable local authority rental accommodation. The latter is due to the Corporation selling most of the housing stock under the right to buy scheme, but nothing has been done to help the growing families. The only rental properties that seem to be available are those rented out by private landlords and the rents are no where near Council rent charges so all those on low incomes are being forced out of the area. Soon Cumbernauld will become a commuter town like so many others.

71

famie,

Australia 08/03/2007 22:55:42

Since when did Scotland have socialist government? I have never known any English speaking nation to be socialist but maybe I have been asleep for the last forty years. All those new towns were built post war to improve the lot of the working class who had suffered as usual from decades of poor public policy. Nothing changes. When will the people awaken from their slumber or should I say drink and drug induced slumber? When males in Glasgow have a lifespan similar to the Aboriginal people of Australia there is a serous malaise that will need a social revolution to change it and the cronies who have governed in Scotland since enfranchizement have failed dismally. It is surely time for the people to take a chance on independence. How can it possibly be any worse than what has gone on so far? I may be speaking from afar but politics are the same in this part of the world too. The social breakdown in Oz is not dissimilar to what is happening in Scotland. When economics is the model for living how could it be any different? Any country that is involved in permanent wars cannot afford to look after the social infrastructure that any decent democracy requires. As Scotland is involved in this theatre of war more or less on a permanent basis then it follows that the malaise of social fracturing must continue.

72

WBB,

Perth, Western Australia 08/03/2007 23:43:00

# 38 How do you know where I pay my taxes mate? If you are that good you should run for a seat at Holyrood !! Tip for future posting: Do not jump to comclusions without knowing the facts.

73

The Wizard,

OZ 08/03/2007 23:44:04

Cumbernauld!! Went there once, been trying to forget it ever since.

74

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 23:48:51

#84.
Hi famie- check the wars Scotland was involved in prior to the Union as compared to after the Union.
It now has a few wars going on but the one it has to win is the war against ignorance; ignorance of its position on the world stage, now and where as a sovereign nation it could be.

75

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 23:57:33

Luxembourg has ‘perhaps’ a dire shortage of toilets? http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=375252007
//It’s their own fault for trying to be independent, when it could easily be ruled by Germany or France or at least form an ‘equal’ union with them. Silly people.\\ Oh, no wait - tiny, wee Luxembourg is one of the world's wealthiest countries, like Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Denmark, Singapore, Finland, New Zealand, Netherlands who also haven’t heard that their economies are too small to be sovereign or is it only the Scots incapable of self-government?

76

Robbie,

NZ 08/03/2007 23:59:49

88. AM, Glasgow /
#81, #82 Robbie NZ
“…I have answered all of your questions except those that in the context of my answers become irrelevant.“
Goodnight AM, sleep well. Sorry I can’t find your answers but will look again when times permit.
See you another time.

77

Sherpa,

W. Australia 09/03/2007 01:32:59

I visited Cumbernauld as a planning student in the 60s. Everybody raved about it, but it gave me the creeps. "No trees" - well they cut the landscape budget, I have seen that many times in my time. It had a social aim to reduce the "tribalism" of Glasgow folk. Did that work? Could someone do a PhD comparing the original objectives with actual outcomes? I'd read that.

78

bill inch,

edinburgh 09/03/2007 03:49:05

Not much of any positve talk here. is that because they are (population). Braindead vote for someone else, no shops think about opening one. Cradle to grave my god.

79

bill inch,

edinburgh 09/03/2007 03:50:43

#90 get real are you shagging sheep down there. these are tx havens.

80

Robbie,

NZ not a tax haven Bill 09/03/2007 04:56:26

93. bill inch, edinburgh / 3:50am 9 Mar 2007
#90 get real are you shagging sheep down there. these are tx havens. Good reply full of political wisdom.
“shagging sheep” How original where did you every get such a sharp sense of humour?
Kiwis and Aussies having never heard Brits crack that innuendo before will be thinking how witty the Bill from Edinburgh is.
Gives us a break name UK comes 29th in QUALITY of LIFE rankings (Scotland would have to be well behind that) are all these countries (1 to 28) tax havens or sheep shaggers. Hey Bill I read the Scotsman you have some pretty bad habits in Auld Reekie (and I’ve read more reports of bestiality there than in the Antipodes and you still are scared of a sovereign government. All those countries mentioned will have problems (perhaps not as bad as Scotland’s) but at least they can endeavour to solve themselves. Tax havens come in handy - but for who? Not the majority of Scots.

81

morris,

edinburgh 09/03/2007 14:41:19

I hope you all have a sense of humour!
Glasgow Commonwealth Games 2014



As you know, Glasgow will be applying to host the Commonwealth Games in 2014. What you may not know is that many of the famous events which go to make up this spectacular event, are to be especially altered for 2014 to boost Glasgow's bid. A copy of these changes has been leaked, and is reproduced below:


OPENING CEREMONY

The flame will be ignited by a petrol bomb thrown by a native of Castlemilk, in the traditional dress of Burberry baseball cap and a white shell suit.

The flame will be contained in a large overturned police van situated on the roof of the stadium.


THE EVENTS

In previous Commonwealth Games, Scotland's competitors have not been particularly successful. In order to redress the balance, some of the events have been altered slightly to the advantage of local athletes.


100 METRES SPRINT
Competitors will have to hold a DVD player and microwave oven (one in each arm) and on the sound of the starting pistol, a police Dog will be released from a cage 10 yards behind the athletes.


110 METRES HURDLES
As above but with added obstacles (i.e. car bonnets, hedges, garden fences, Walls etc)


HAMMER
Competitors in this event may choose the type of hammer they wish to use (claw, sledge etc) the winner will be the one who can cause the most physical damage within three attempts.


FENCING
This event shall be sponsored by Cash Converters who shall also provide the hardware. The contest itself shall be based outside kebab shops in Baillieston, Riddrie, Drumchapel, and Easterhouse....the winner shall be the one who can leave A & E first.

SHOOTING
A strong challenge is expected from local men in this event. The first target will be a moving police van. In the second round, competitors will aim at a post office clerk, bank te

82

morris,

edinburgh 09/03/2007 14:45:58

pool, the specific musical support to this event will be provided by "Belle & Sebastian".


THE MARATHON
A safe route has yet to be decided.


MEN'S 50KM WALK
Unfortunately this will have to be cancelled, as the police cannot guarantee the safety of anyone walking the streets of Glasgow, especially anyone that appears to be mincing...


THE CLOSING CEREMONY
Entertainment will include formation rave dancing by members of the Govan Health in the Community, anti-drug campaigners, synchronised rock throwing, and music by the Dennistoun community choir. The flame will be extinguished by police riot water cannon following inevitable pitch invasion by confused old firm fans.

The stadium itself will then be boarded up before the local athletes break into it and remove all the copper piping and the central heating boiler.

.......................

Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes !!!

83

Jiimpoo,

Tillietudlem 09/03/2007 17:55:23

 

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