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Fintry's green revolution means power to the people



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Published Date: 09 February 2008
IN the village of Fintry, there is no such thing as an ill wind. For this community of just 500 souls stands to benefit to the tune of about £5 million over 25 years after acquiring its own turbine on a nearby wind farm.
Villagers in Fintry will benefit for years from the profits being produced by their wind turbine nearby hills. Now the project could be adopted by other communities across Scotland who recognise the potential
Villagers in Fintry will benefit for years from the profits being produced by their wind turbine nearby hills. Now the project could be adopted by other communities across Scotland who recognise the potential
In much of Scotland, the surge of wind-farm applications has sparked furious protests over the "industrialisation" of the countryside, while supporters insist such sources of renewable energy are a crucial part of the fight against global warming.

The controversial Lewis Wind Power project and the Beauly-Denny power line upgrade have split environmentalists. Meanwhile, debate has raged over what kind of renewable energy Scotland should have, and how much it can truly expect to harness.

Amid the uproar, the blades of a turbine near Fintry, Stirlingshire, started turning just before Christmas, and the first installment of this "windfall" will follow shortly.

For the people there saw a proposed wind farm not as a threat, but as an opportunity – not only to make money but also to help fund an environmental revolution in the village.

They are now spreading the word, telling other communities how they can do the same. So far, St Andrews, Neilston, in Renfrewshire, and Biggar, in Lanarkshire, have been in touch.

At current prices, the people of Fintry would be expected to make about £900,000 over the first 15 years while they pay off the cost of the 115-metre turbine, then roughly £4 million during the next ten years. The expected lifespan of a turbine is 25 years.

Gordon Cowtan, 44, one of the organisers of the project, said: "Without blowing our own trumpet too much, I think this will set the agenda for the village for the next 15 to 20 years.

"That amount of money coming into a place the size of Fintry will have a huge effect on it.

"It's absolutely the village's money, and it is up to the village to decide what to do with that."

In Fintry, there is talk of using the money to convert the sports hall from expensive, oil-fired heating to an environmentally friendly, ground-source heat pump.

Fitting insulation, double glazing and solar panels to homes in the village are other options, while, in the future, the money could even be used to pay for hydrogen-fuelled buses to take people to Stirling and Glasgow.

"The money is significant, but the wind turbine almost becomes totemic in that it is a renewable energy resource helping the village cut its energy consumption as well," Mr Cowtan said.

If other areas adopted the Fintry method, it could also "take some of the heat out of the whole wind-farm thing", he said.

"I think, for a lot of communities, having a wind-farm proposed on their doorstep is the biggest challenge they will have faced for 100 years or so," he said. "You get a very polarised, antagonistic situation, where you have got the developer trying to get something through with the local community feeling stomped upon by big business."

In Fintry's case, the turbine was paid for by Falck Renewables, the developer of a wind farm at Earlsburn. The village will pay it off at an agreed rate of interest, using the income from the electricity it produces. Mr Cowtan said: "I think there is a realisation in the industry, to some extent, that they need to take communities with them on projects they are doing.

"We had this approach of having an additional turbine, which would be the community turbine. They (the developer] get good publicity and, in general, hope it will help them when they come to go through the planning process.

"What we're trying to do is to encourage other communities to engage with renewable energy developments on their doorstep. There is a particular Fintry model we have got; it doesn't necessarily have to be exactly the same. But if a development is going to happen on your doorstep, it is appropriate that the community gets as much out of it as possible."

He said the money could become increasingly important in years to come for a rural village such as Fintry.

"There's very little in the way of public transport, but most people commute into Glasgow and Stirling," Mr Cowtan said.

"The price of diesel is about £1.10 a litre. What happens when that's £2 a litre? How does a rural community like Fintry survive? How is it sustainable when we have got that sort of energy price?

Having a reliable income stream makes it more feasible for a rural community to address that in some way."

Asked about the idea of running hydrogen-powered mini-buses to Stirling and Glasgow, he said: "Possibly. But it's early days so far. We haven't really got definite plans in that area."

One giant wind turbine will spawn a range of green initiatives
One giant wind turbine will spawn a range of green initiatives
Charles Williams, of Falck Renewables, described the deal as a "win, win" situation.

He said: "We were developing a wind farm and it turned out they were separately looking at developing a wind farm in much the same location.

"We have kind of assisted them in getting planning permission for an additional 15th turbine, next to our 14 turbines.

"We agreed the sensible thing to do was for us to build, own and operate their turbine as part of our wind farm, so that's what we've done. We operate the 15th turbine effectively for the benefit of the people in Fintry."

Mr Williams stressed the income from the turbine would depend on what happened to electricity prices but said it was expected to make a profit.

"No-one knows what's going to happen to the electricity price. They are variable and electricity prices have collapsed in the past. But it is a reasonably safe bet," he said.

"The risk is in the development phase. There are projects that don't get planning permission. You can put half a million to a million pounds at risk in developing a project.

"The economics of a wind project are principally driven by windspeed. Windspeeds in Scotland, providing you find the right location, are generally pretty high.

"There are a lot of projects in England where the wind is significantly lower – the economics are more marginal and there's a lot of uncertainty about whether the project will be profitable."

He questioned whether other places would be as organised as Fintry. "They just happened to be already thinking about developing their own turbine," he said.

"They had the get-up-and-go to come up with the idea and develop their own turbine – not every community is going to have individuals like that who want to do it."

On the economics of wind farms, Andrew Perkins, a director at accountant Ernst & Young, said: "Prices tend to go both ways, don't they?"

But he added: "Fundamentally, wind farms are a very good thing to invest in – pension funds are investing in them."

He said the economics of the Fintry deal would depend on the rate of interest paid.

Jason Ormiston, of the industry body Scottish Renewables, thought the idea could catch on. "The Fintry model is one that's really interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if it was emulated elsewhere," he said.

"It's true to say the better the engagement with the community (by the developer], the more supportive the community is of the development. I think the wind industry has a good record on this – often people complaining about wind projects are in a minority in a community, but they shout very loudly."

After the turbine is paid off, there will be a step change in the amount of money coming into the village, but Mr Cowtan said the people of Fintry would maintain their green credentials rather than give in to excess.

Asked if the whole village would head off to Barbados on holiday, he joked: "Only on a carbon neutral ferry."

Green dividend could change a village's life

THE cost of buying and installing a wind turbine might seem daunting to many. At about £2.5 million, it will take Fintry 15 years to pay off.

But even during that time the Fintry Development Trust expects to receive between £50,000 and £70,000 a year from the turbine on the nearby Earlsburn wind farm.

The electricity it produces will go into the National Grid to be bought by power companies as will the power from the 14 other turbines on the site.

The total generating capacity of the wind farm is 37.5 megawatts, enough to power about 25,000 homes, equal to half of all the houses in the Stirling Council area.

Fintry's turbine, which has a capacity of 2.5 megawatts, should generate enough for more than 1,600 houses, several times the number in the village.

But after the repayment period is over, the village will receive what should be a life-changing amount of money.

It would get about £400,000 a year at today's prices.

Fintry Development Trust, a charity, was set up to decide how to spend the money and it has about 150 members.

A trading company, Fintry Renewable Energy Enterprise (Free), was also created and it will pay all its profits to the charitable trust.

The trust's aim is to "promote the use of renewable energy and energy efficiency in the community to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and the effects of global warming".

For example, expensive oil-fired heating systems could be replaced with solar panels, micro-turbines and/or ground- source heat pumps.

It could also be used to insulate homes or fit double glazing.

The trust's committee is considering what the money will be spent on and options will be put to its members no later than October.

Renewable energy does not receive a government subsidy, but it is considered a good investment largely because of the "renewable obligation", set up by the government and requiring power companies to buy a certain amount of electricity from renewable generators.

If they fail to do so, they can buy renewable obligation certificates (Rocs), which are given to renewable power generators depending on how much they produce, or pay a penalty "buyout" fee, which is then distributed to green generators.

The renewable obligation started at 3 per cent in 2003 but is being increased gradually to 15.4 per cent by 2015.

The system effectively means the price of renewable electricity is 50 to 100 per cent higher than the wholesale market price. The cost to customers is limited by a price cap and the renewable obligation is guaranteed by law until 2027.

The value of the Roc system to renewable generators will fall as the amount of green electricity available in the UK increases.


Make sure community benefits
A COMMUNITY seeking to follow the Fintry model should first find out whether a developer is planning to build a wind farm nearby.

An approach to the company could then be made to put the suggestion that the community benefit, which could be delivered at least in part by building an extra turbine for local people.

It would be important to check windspeed readings from anemometers on the site, which the company will have set up as part of its preparation work to assess how much electricity will be produced and, therefore, how much money will be made.

Negotiations between the people of Fintry and the developer of the nearby wind farm resulted in an agreement that the company would pay the £2.5 million upfront cost of the turbine and install it on behalf of the community. This will be paid back over the next 15 years at an agreed rate of interest.

It would be advisable to take financial advice over the rate of interest and the repayment period to ensure these were within reasonable parameters.

It may be helpful in talks with the company to suggest that this kind of scheme could help persuade the local council to grant planning permission.

If the project gets the go-ahead, the community would set up a trading company to deal with profits from the turbine.

The trading company would hand over all of its profits to a charitable trust that would be created to decide how to spend the money.

This is similar to the way charity shops run by the likes of Oxfam operate.

Local people would be encouraged to become members of the charitable trust which would have its day-to-day affairs run by a committee.

It would also come up with proposals on what to do with the money, but trust members would ultimately have the final say. A decision would also need to be made on what area would be covered by the charitable trust, who would be eligible for funds.




The full article contains 2132 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 February 2008 11:58 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

S'me,

Edinburgh 09/02/2008 01:50:34
Lighten up and lose the parochialism.
2

Hamish MacBeth,

NZ 09/02/2008 02:35:11
This is a great way forward.
3

aberdeenshire teuchter,

perth 09/02/2008 03:54:02
#3 Agree.

#1 Twit.
4

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 09/02/2008 06:01:01
Newcomers? Old comers? They're all people. Incomers saved our village. Well done Fintry!
5

clola,

north sea 09/02/2008 07:12:43
sensible way forward for the village. good luck to them.
6

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 09/02/2008 07:28:55
How quickly they all fold when they see Pound signs. Soon our lovely country will be blighted beyond repair with these obscene monstrosities. I am disgusted!
7

calum,

09/02/2008 07:45:18
The profits may help the nouveau arrivants in Fintry to afford to run their Mercs and BMWs on the single occupied commute to central Glasgow. Or to subsidise the return of the village shop which they patently failed to support. Or indeed to give a better welcome at the Sports Club than usual!!
8

Greenheatman,

TAIN 09/02/2008 07:48:54
Coloured beads, anyone?
9

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 09/02/2008 08:03:51
#7 Good grief, get a grip on yourself. I suppose you'd prefer the sight of half of Scotland underwater?
10

Kenny A,

09/02/2008 08:28:39
10

Been to North Uist.

Anyway if the majority were in favour to this windmill more power to them.
11

Fabius Maximus,

09/02/2008 08:54:51
The caption in the photograph betrays the media#s deep antagonism to wind farms, Turbines don't "spawn" anything, even green initiatives. But they do generate all sorts of things, from electicity to hostility.I must state a personal interest: I'm a member of the Byondie wind co-operative, who finds the turbines themselves beautiful and inspirational, as well as a crucial part of a mix which may save not only our beatiful landscape but the people who live and derive their livings from it.
12

calum,

09/02/2008 08:59:11
#12 - Is that a crucial part of a mix which includes oil, coal, gas, nuclear?
13

Mcsnagpile,

09/02/2008 09:08:36
What did one egg say to the other? The yolk is on you.

I hope the Fintry yokels got an independent adviser, wind power expert, to give the figures on returns and full low down. Bottom line is this is a risk investment.

Setting up a turbine without being part of a larger project is a different kettle of fish.

Cost of connecting to the grid, fault analysis and protection,etc. Insurance in case the turbine goes for a burton. Extra payment to the electricity board for selling your own electricity back to you. Maintenance costs. Ltd company costs. Real expected power generation—accounting for low winds and too high winds shut down, lack of power demand at the required time. Interest rates, prices for power. 15 years is a long time to see if you will make a profit----or not.
14

E300,

tomich 09/02/2008 09:16:31
As a pensioner I am delighted to be contributing to the increased prosperity of the Merc and BMW drivers of Fintry. My power company charges me a higher cost for my meagre electricity usage because it has to pay an inflated price to subsidise wind power. Fortunately I don't pay income tax on my pension or I should be further subsidising Fintry through government grants for re-newables.
15

BK,

Cyberspace 09/02/2008 09:19:03
#14 If this posting is typical they could employ you to fill in when the wind is in short supply!
16

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife news room 09/02/2008 09:25:13
H'mm

Must speak to the 'cooncil'!

This does seem to be a way forward, although when Broon gets to hear about it he'll presumably invent a wind tax for Scotland bill or similar.

Well done Fintry!


Yours etc
Angus Whitton
17

Gothic Rose,

09/02/2008 09:27:43
To all the negative posts,my friend Maxine says,take a oneway ticket, to Mars.!!!
18

Unimpressed one,

09/02/2008 09:33:13
"LAVISH subsidies and high electricity prices have turned Britain’s onshore wind farms into an extraordinary moneyspinner, with a single turbine capable of generating £500,000 of pure profit per year.

According to new industry figures, a typical 2 megawatt (2MW) turbine can now generate power worth £200,000 on the wholesale markets - plus another £300,000 of subsidy from taxpayers.

Since such turbines cost around £2m to build and last for 20 or more years, it means they can pay for themselves in just 4-5 years and then produce nothing but profit."

This is just fleecing taxpayers, or more accurately, all power consumers to pay the villagers of Fintry. Left to market forces Fintry would be paying us not the other way round!
19

David MacVicar,

web 09/02/2008 09:47:43
Good luck to them. The 'Carpe Diem' can do attitude is taking hold all over Scotland. The community of Gigha has lead the way hear on Land reform and Energy.

#14 I guess they shouldn't even have got out of bed. How did you manage to to find the courage to post online, the risks are almost unbearable. Must be so disheartening for you to see so many positive changes right across Scotland. Your nightmare is going to get worse.

#7 Mark Renton, Edinburgh. Great to see someone from Edinburgh pontificating about the countryside to those who actually live in the countryside.
20

sceptic,

09/02/2008 10:03:41
19 Unimpressed one
You are making a big mistake if you think that facts or common sense have any relevance here. Just stick "environment", "renewable" or "re-cycle" in front of any nonsense and the "green" eyes glaze over. Think yourself lucky that you didn't have the disaster of the imminent failure of the Gulf Stream worrying you until it was miraculously switched on again. Or run your car on Bio-fuel only to discover recently it was even more harmful to the environment. Or campaign for wind farms only to have permission refused. Or buy local farm produce only to discover it was more environmentally damaging than long haul imports.
21

bunker,

09/02/2008 10:07:56
Why not build smaller version within housing estates. smaller units spread over the roof tops where the demand is, rather than the huge turbines we are presented with as the main option

Polution free Hydrogen production using energy from the turbines to convert our abundant water supply into fuel for transport. what about going back to the old water mills (blending into the environment) to create electricity and hydrogen as they have the raw materials flowing past the generator. The community could produce there own fuel supply. The technology is there what the hell is happening with it.

Let me guess? the political powers that control the means or more importantly the oil companies who have not squeezed enough profits out of us yet
22

11+failed,

the pans 09/02/2008 10:38:24
Great to see you sporting your Latin and being insultingly critical of others. Perhaps "ceteris paribus" you should "carpe diem" and improve your English "has lead the way hear"
23

MunroNeil,

Edinburgh 09/02/2008 10:45:44
If the economics work as the Fintry experience suggests, albeit that many do dispute this, the benefit for the government is immense. Local communities with their own subsidised shop, post office and other chosen facilities as a concept, should suggest that the financial contract between wind farm providers and communities be standardised with independent free or fixed charge consultancy available to any community. Some degree of charitable relief should be allowed on the corporate's capital outlay therefore reducing the payback period. And I too see wind farms as elegant and majestic.
24

nick prince,

warrington 09/02/2008 11:01:50
bunker at 22, the reason, or one of them, that smaller units are not so popular is that wind speed is greatly reduced the closer to the ground that you get, it scales as cube of the height above ground, so twice as high means eight times the wind speed. About ten years ago any turbine of a height less that 25m was just not economic, I think that's the right figure.

Also there is a reducing effect of wind speed caused by land drag.
25

calum,

09/02/2008 11:02:07
Fintry is hardly your archetypal green community. Not for them the sight of mum in the naturally dyed cotton dress with a newborn at her breast whilst dad (with wisy beard) chops wood from the renewable woodland, looking forward to his lentil cutlets for lunch. Perhaps he can go to market with some home-made wooden toys carefully crafted from leftover offcuts from his toils in the greenwood. But before that, some songs with the carved lute for the family round the open fire.
No, no. More like whizzing off to the office in Glasgow in the 20mpg Merc whilst yummy jumps in the X5 to "do lunch" in Edinburgh or pick up some esentials at Morrisons ....... and all the time local businesses go to the wall.
This whole thing smells of a tax break with energy fairly far down the list of priorities.
26

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 09/02/2008 11:03:22
Green? they look white to me, I just hope the wind blows when they need the electrickery...
27

Neil,

Glasgow 09/02/2008 11:22:18
At least this time the Scotsman don't say "only £15,000 of public money will be put in" as they did over Eigg. The theory being that the rest of £1.5 million weasn't public after it had been handed over to the various qangos that actually signed the cheque.

It has been admitted that windmillers make considerably more money from cashing government cheques than they do from making electricity. I am sure that if we just wrote Fintry a cheque for £4 million it would cost us much less.
28

Geomac 1,

Kinross 09/02/2008 11:28:38
Hmmm. Not one word about the fact that the rest of us poor electricity consumers will be fotting the bill as a consequence of the Renewables Obligation legislation!! This to the tune of around 5 pence per unit(kWh) of their electricity generated by this windmill!! That is some £50 per MWh generated - this system is madness and penalises the majority to subsidise the minority. This is turning the rewsidents of Fintry into developers and we all know how much money developers make from windmills!!
29

Geraldine Firequeen,

09/02/2008 11:43:48
So why do the villagers have to pay interest? Presumably they are paying a market price for the turbine, not being charged at cost. What happens if something goes wrong and they end up owing 15mill? What about the different needs of the community due to different income levels, lifestyles? Most people wouldn't vote for a bus, being reliant on their cars. Sounds like a nightmare. But this Falck renewables could have donated the turbine as their contribution to damaging the environment with these ugly monsters. They always have to turn a profit, don't they!
30

Jock Thomson,

Ayr 09/02/2008 12:21:12
Oh well, at least you have to give credit to Falck Renewables for lateral thinking.

They only had to allow Fintry people to share in the loot from 1 of the 15 wind turbines and all of a sudden local opposition melts away. And the beauty of it is that this bribery is mostly paid for out of public funds.

A typical win-win scenario for the fat cats and one in the eye for the paupers of Easterhouse, Barlanark and Craigmillar who can only look on in puzzlement from their broken down communities. Their schools, hospitals, roads and jobs literally thrown to the four winds for one of the greatest economic con tricks of our times.

Cold, calculated and utterly despicable.
31

Ellie,

Edinburgh 09/02/2008 12:23:27
Congratulations!
32

calum,

09/02/2008 12:31:35
It's funny what you get when you're bored and have a wee Google to yourself.
Falck Renewables - UK registered subsidiary of a massive Italian Company (former steel producer but now into power production) Developing several sites in UK, 8 or 9 of them in Scotland. But they use German technology for the turbines.
So much for UK investment.
Gordon Cowtan - Web Designer, used to be in Cambridge but relocated to Fintry, Limited companies connected to wind developments seem to be in his name. Would no doubt benefit from the redesignation of Local Boundaries which included his dwelling for grant applications.
As I said, not your typical "green" community.
33

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 09/02/2008 12:44:43
"Charles Williams, of Falck Renewables, described the deal as a "win, win" situation"

Just another handout by New Labour to their Big Business buddies.
34

Gramma Kitty,

Portage Lakes Ohio USA 09/02/2008 12:44:57
At least it's a start. Nothing is perfect, but we need more green energy and less pontification.
35

Quarter,

right here 09/02/2008 13:24:06
14 - mcsnagpile - calling the people of Fintry "Yokels", get back under your stone.

The ROC subsidy system is paid for from the 'climate change levy' which is a levy on industrial consumers and not residential, correct?

So just how are taxpayers subsidising windfarms???
36

drew 33,

09/02/2008 14:22:37
37
"The ROC subsidy system is paid for from the 'climate change levy' which is a levy on industrial consumers and not residential, correct?"
Wrong! Comes from me and pensioners like 15,but just from a different pocket. I pay extra for goods or my pension scheme collects less dividends.There is no such thing as a free lunch. We all pay the subsides for wind energy one way or another.The only partially free lunch here is for the middle class 4X4 drivers(40%) of Fintry.
37

Alexander,

Edinburgh 09/02/2008 14:32:03
#37 Quarter
"levy on industrial consumers and not residential"
How pathetically simplistic can you get? I suppose you think it comes out of manufacturers and others profits? It goes on to costs then 20% or so is welded on for profit so increasing cost increases profits.
38

calum,

09/02/2008 14:50:39
#40 Eh?
39

Conan the Librarian™,

09/02/2008 15:19:27
42
Gordon
http://www.askaprice.com/images/news/inhouse/1999-03.jpg
40

Gordon A.,

Vancouver, BC 09/02/2008 15:28:31
Congratulations Fintry;
41

Gordon A.,

Vancouver, BC 09/02/2008 15:32:29
Congratulations Fintry;
May you continue to prosper for many years and glad you are taking care of your citizens.
Don't give a hoot about the cave dwellers complaints.
Scots are a Brave Intelligent Lot so don't worry about less intelligent folks without foresight.
42

calum,

09/02/2008 16:07:38
#45 - Na, not cave dwellers, more canny Scots who care not to be conned by a questionable venture offered by international companies who merely show the cash to buy our support. But being as how you are in Vancouver BC and the indigenous Indian population was shamefully robbed by incomers, many of them Scots, you would know that already.
We won't get fooled again!! (Townshend)
43

Silent Hunter,

Planet Earth 09/02/2008 16:15:22
@ Chairman Gordon:

Is having a 'polished English accent' now a crime in Scotland?

Presumably having an 'Ethnic Minority accent' is similarly something to avoid in Scotland as far as you're concerned.

I find your comments vaguely racist but unsurprising from a 'Little Scotlander' :O) Not much difference between you and some of the 'Little Englanders' south of the border who berate the Scots for 'stealing English taxes to subsidise Scotlands existence'......an equally laughable and 'vaguely racist' rant.

Perhaps the residents of Fintry might also find some of the comments relating to Mercs, 4x4's, etc, somewhat patronising.

So?.........no other communities in Scotland have Mercs, 4x4's etc? Perhaps it's worth pointing out that the people of Fintry ALL stand to benefit from the income on an equal basis regardless of their personal financial circumstances, but then, perhaps they see themselves as a 'Community' rather than judging themselves against some 'how much have I got in comparison to you' yardstick, so unfortunately prevalent in society nowadays.

I speak as an Englishman who moved up to Scotland because he fell in love with its passion for life and its defence of freedom.

But hey!
I expect that you would prefer me to say that I really came up here to Steal your Porridge and Shag all your womenfolk.

Well I've tried the first and unfortunately, age prevents me even attempting the latter.........shame really. ;O)

And for the Luddites amongst you!

Please keep posting your thoughts about renewable monsters marching over the hills to scare your sheep!

Hilarious stupidity has its place in the Nuclear supporters club. :O)


@ Calum

Wow!

You can use a google search engine to find out anything on the world wide web?

I typed in 'Self Opinionated Prat' and guess what?

It came up with 'Calum....occasional poster on the Scotsman Newspaper blogs.........rather nasty, not very intelligent and prone to bouts of ego'

Ain't
44

calum,

09/02/2008 16:35:37
#47 Well, we've touched a rather large raw nerve there, haven't we.
For the record, many of my best friends are English, I have lived in England and I have absolutely no problem whatever with English people but I do have a problem with opportunists and con-men of whatever nationality, including Scots. Nowhere have I mentioned English until now and I abhor anti-English sentiments which are based on that alone.
What I object to is the ruination of my country's beauty in the name of of a questionable policy, that is one of placing windmills by the thousand all over the most wildest and most beautiful parts of the land. At the same time, the potential profits of these schemes will disappear to Milan and Munich leaving nothing behind but a scarred landscape.
Perhaps you don't know Fintry but I do and I stand by my comments.
Yes, have a look at the company involved, have a look at the people involved and you'll see that this is no backwoods simple folk who are promoting this and I wonder just how much some of the real locals really know.
As for your peurile and insulting comments in your rant against me and Gordon, you lose all credibility when you resort to that.
45

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/02/2008 16:53:32
windmills grind corn.

Wind Turbines generate electricity.
46

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 17:03:06
@Mark Renton.

OK?.........so how do you think your 'lovely country' will look after climate change caused by global warming really starts to effect our weather?

Hmmmmmm?

Any ideas?

Here's a little light reading for you as you contemplate the view of your 'lovely country' from the window of your ivory tower.

"MORE than two billion people could see their homes disappear under water when pollution melts the polar ice caps, creating the biggest refugee crisis the world has ever seen.

That is the alarming prediction made by British climate change experts in a new report obtained by the Sunday Herald. Rising sea levels will force millions to leave low-lying coastal areas and seek higher ground.

As a result, refugees from London, East Anglia, The Netherlands, Africa, Asia and elsewhere will try to make their homes in Scotland."

What price your 'lovely country' now?

Hmmmmmmmm?
47

calum,

09/02/2008 17:14:14
........all are welcome in Scotland. But they won't be able to occupy and live on the high ground, that'll be covered with winmills, sorry, wind turbines.
48

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 17:19:57
#50 As to Self Opinionated Prats, I suggest you look no further than your bathroom mirror.

I don't think you moved to Scotland because of, what was it? "he fell in love with its passion for life and its defence of freedom."

Horse jobbies.

I reckon you were running away from something/someone.

Come on tell us.
49

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 17:33:57
@ Calum

Excuse me; but I was talking to Chairman Gordon about Little Englanders / Scotlanders........not you!

But as you claim to 'know' Fintry.......have you actually spoken to anyone IN Fintry.

Care to back up the rhetoric with some actual examples?
I would be most interested to see you quote what someone from the village of Fintry has actually said to you.

You know?

The ones that you have accused of being 'arrivants' etc; I only ask as you only seem to 'know' the residents who drive large gas guzzling cars. LOL

As for your comments about 'your' beautiful land......
I wasn't aware that it belonged to 'you' alone.
Are 'you' one of these Merc owning, English loving, nouveau riche, Scottish business tycoons that we all hear about?.......you know?, one of the 7:84 variety?

Your comment about a 'scarred landscape' is frankly laughable and demonstrates your total ignorance of the planning process requirements for windfarms (requirements NOT asked of the Nuclear industry, I might add)....try looking up Section 75 agreements for windfarms............Try Google! :O)

As for my 'puerile & insulting comments against poor wee you' & your wee pal Gordon :O) LOL.
Well I'm sorry about that!

Did I touch a rather large raw nerve? ;O) hee hee

Only you seemed content to attack Gordon Cowtan from your safe, anonymity.

Not so thick skinned when the boots on the other foot are you...........poor 'wee' soul!

As Nelson Muntz would say.........HA....HA!
50

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 17:39:49
#53 Wow! Who's a little crosspatch today then? Surely those nasty anti-wind farm boys haven't upset you, have they?

Come on mate, tell us. Why did you move to Jockoland really?
51

calum,

09/02/2008 17:46:45
Yes, I know Fintry, I know several people there. I have played against and spent time with local people, fished there, walked there, ate there, drank there, particularly in the Sports Pavilion (subject of a "green" initiative by Mr. Cowtan). I know Strathendick RFC and have done business locally and actually spent some of my own money as a "tourist" there. OK?
As for "my" country - born here, live here, employed here, taxed here, invested here, committed to here ...... what else is there to say?
As for anonimity, I've given my name, you seem not to have, Mr. Hunter is it?
Anyway, you really do seem to be a not very good example of your genre and I just hope that no-one else joins in and insults you for being English. I would never do that.
And if age prevents you doing things perhaps you could consider acting your age.
52

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 17:48:38
@ Radge (do you mean Rage?)

'...Look in the bathroom mirror...'

Ooooowwww Good one! ;O)
That must have taxed your intellectual capacity LOL.

....And your thoughts on renewable energy would be?......?

Anything?

Surely something must occur to you?

No?

Well.......perhaps you could look up Google for some erudite retorts. (I believe Calum swears buy it....possibly even at it)

But first I suggest you look up........'erudite retorts'.
I can hear your single synapse firing from here! :O)

Pop!

Wot's 'erudite retorts' mean? >:O(


CLUE:

It's not you farting!


..............Or is it?......... just an 'ill wind' after all ?
53

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 17:58:56
#56 Silent farter

Don't you know what a radge is? Not been in Scotland long enough I suppose.

Not really interested in the debate to be honest. I just like tugging your strings. You certainly do jump don't you.
54

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 18:15:48
@ Calum.

My, but you have done a lot in Fintry!

Still no names though? eh? Nothing that you can't make up, having read the story.

Perhaps you were just having, far too good a time with all that Huntin, shootin, fishin!

Oh! You're THAT Calum! :O).....as opposed to all those other Calums.

'Calum' from the 'Calumnious Clan' no doubt.

Yes, I'm Mr Hunter, have we met in Fintry then? Maybe I ran over you in my enormous Merc. LOL

BTW......'...you really do seem to be a not very good example of your genre...'

Grammar and syntax dear boy!, clearly your strong point not it is! :O)

Was Yoda your English teacher? :O)
55

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 18:16:07
#56 Oh, forgot to enlighten you:

radge: a bit mental. someone who likes to noise others up and get into fights.

Come on mate, just tell us. Why did you move to Scotland?

Leave out the sub Mel Gibson as Willie Wallace sh1te.
56

calum,

09/02/2008 18:19:56
58 No, I'm afraid that Mr. Hunter? is not sufficiently up with Scottish regional dialects and local languages to appreciate the term "radge". Still, he's welcome nonetheless, because we take all kinds here, regardless of their origin. Anyway, Radge, fit like, loon. A' wis in Aiberdein th'ither day. Michtie, fit a change! That's fit ootside monie diz t'ye.
Anyway, we really should leave Mr. Hunter alone because he may give the impression that all of his countrymen are like him ...... and they're not. But he doesn't give a very good example, eh?
Anyway, he's had enough of my time.
57

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 18:21:45
@ Radge.

Silent Farter! hee hee hee. Scatological humour becomes you Radge.

"radge"

To quote the 'urban dictionary' (that's a book with lots of words in it, Radge)

"...one who is not all there; a bit mental. someone who likes to noise others up and get into fights..."

Well now I know ;O)

'...Not really interested in the debate to be honest....'

Well, it is a bit high brow!

Perhaps the Suns Blog page would be more to your understanding.

'Wot the Sun Sez'.........reading age of 8.

Please feel free to 'tug my strings again'........old fruit! ;O)
58

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 18:23:56
@ Calum.

Awwwwww!

You're not running away already are you?

Just when I thought you might actually be going to name all your legion of friends in Fintry. :O(
59

,

09/02/2008 18:30:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 18:33:35
#62 Not going to tell us then. Must be a bit embarrassing I reckon.

I don't know about all that there book learnin' so I has to leave such inte.. intelek... clever stuff to youse brainy types.

Can't keep up with all the measured, well researched arguments you put forward.
61

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 18:36:32
#61 Aye aye min. Aye, Aiberdein his chainged a gey lot es past 5 year.

It's nae the place it aince wis.

A the best.
62

Friseal,

09/02/2008 18:41:54
#63 wonder how much the houses prices have gone up in Fintry over the last couple of years, do you know what the word integration means old boy?
63

calum,

09/02/2008 18:42:17
#66 a' i' best, min.(fae a loon it wint tae Quarryhill, fin Cairnwell wiz a gud place ti bide)
64

calum,

09/02/2008 18:44:18
......Radge As for Hunter, he would be better remaining silent and letting us believe he may be an idiot, rather than speaking out and removing all doubt (Anon)
65

morris,

edinburgh 09/02/2008 18:46:06
Scotland is happy to erect phone masts everywhere because it means they can use their mobile phones.Fair enough. We want mobile phones,we need masts.
A wind generator however is an eyesore apparently,where a dirty great mast with a dish on it is not.
HOW?
Half of the people who would tell you they spoil the remote landscape are too unfit to even get near these sites!
Every single wind generator on Scotland's hills is one less reason for nuclear dumping in Scotland's hills.

Spoil the view?Theres miles and miles of views,Its one of the few things we have got!

If you go down the nuclear road ,and we have seismic activity in the next ten thousand years there wont be a view anywhere!

Waken up numpties. Wind power is safe clean renewable and will even serve as a navigational aid because it can be seen for miles,IT might even save a life at some stage !

Stop talking nuclear nonsense and embrace the power that CAN NEVER GO AWAY !Wind wave Solar and Hydro AND YOU HAVE GOT THEM ALL IN ABUNDANCE to the envy of every other country on the planet.

WELL DONE FINTRY .
66

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 19:27:53
@ Bogmon

Phew!

'...The aesthetic of wind farm superstructures speaks for itself and is hated by all - except for the occasional nutter who thinks they are 'beautiful'...'

Hated by all?

Are you sure about that sweeping statement?

So only 'nutters' want to save the planet do they BogMan?

Let's look at your sub headings.


'Roads'
Well, I suppose you could say that about any new build power station of your choice.

Which would be your choice?

Coal, Gas, Nuclear?


'Trenches'

Again, what building project doesn't have trenches?
I would also ask at this point about the 'Grid Connection' which requires Quote: Kilometres of overhead cabling.

So to put the cables into 'trenches' would be wrong as well?

Some inconsistency of thought there, shirley?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


'Foundations & Land take'

Exactly how BIG do you think the foundations of a turbine need to be, assuming that it's not one of those simply bolted to bedrock.......ie, requiring little or no concrete whatsoever.

Again, Concrete seems to be a pejorative term here based on some grim, blockhouse structure.

The reality is that its buried under the ground and the 'land take' as you call it, is reinstated over the concrete plug. Have you been on site when the foundations of a turbine are poured? I have!
I was amazed at just how small the footprint had to be, and this in an area of peatland.

Yes that's right peatland!, pulled aside to insert the plug and then reinstated over the plug.

NOT removed from site to be harvested for garden centre fodder, like huge areas of peatlands have been, or used to plant forestry as a cash crop.
So not quite the environmental disaster you would have us believe then.

But don't take my word for it dear reader, please look into the stats' your self.

'Peat'

Well I think we've covered that one.

'Hydrology'

Damage to watercourses

Yes, this has happened, and some developers deservedly need to
67

The 'Menace',

Edinburgh, 09/02/2008 19:44:07
Well done,Fintry,n,all who support this venture,all be it,these optimists who,on thinking your going to come
out laughing,in the time-evolved span,till your rewarded,if,as they say you don't try,you'll never know,n,half these city-dwellers never will,you can reap
and enjoy the joy of open fields,n,eventually cheaper supplies of power,Good for you,,Wish I'd the chance!!
68

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 19:47:41
Good to see Calum has at last found his intellectual equal in 'RADGE'.

How sweet! :O)


@ Friseal:

House prices?
Presumably post, wind farm monsters, in their midst? ;O)

Average price in Fintry for houses sold last year - £198,460, based on 9 sales.
Info from OurProperty.co.uk.

Integration?

verb: to complete by addition of parts (1 additional turbine), combine parts into a whole, bring or come into equal membership of society (the residents of Fintry) esp, disregarding race or religion, end segregation (of their community due to energy poverty).

Well that sounds like a good thing to me! :O)

I assume that's what you were alluding to?
69

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 19:53:14
Forgive me Bogman!

I didn't realise that half my post was missing.

Here's the rest for your delectation! :O)

Damage to watercourses

Yes, this has happened, and some developers deservedly need to get their backsides severely booted for these events.

However, do you worry about the damage to these water courses from intensive agriculture?

What about Nuclear fallout over areas of the Highlands from just one nuclear 'accident'...Chernobyl.

Which do you think damages water courses more and how long do you think the damage from constructing a windfarm as opposed to constructing a Nuclear power station or its fallout would last?

'Habitat loss'

I'm sorry but I fail to see what's irreversible about removing wind farms after their useful working life is over?

You seem to forget the Section 75 clause requiring that the land is returned to its original state (less the concrete plugs, which are covered over to a depth of at least 2M anyway)...NOTE: this is NOT required of the Nuclear Power Industry.

If you stood on the site of a windfarm some 50 years in the future, you wouldn't even guess it had been their.

And for a Nuclear Power station?; well, draw your own conclusions as to what the land will look like.
Suffice to say.........it won't look like it did before they built the damn thing.

'Wildlife'

Kills birds.

As an example, the 9 harbour-wall turbines at Blyth are in a busy bird area. Of the bird flights through the wind farm, only 1 in 10,000 have resulted in a collision. This translates to 1-2 collisions per year per turbine. To put the issue into perspective, every year more than 10 million birds are killed by cars in the UK.

I don't know how many are killed by cats........perhaps we should kill all the cats.

'sub-station'

Again, all power stations require this.

Wind farms are no different, although typically, the footprint of these is a a large garage or small bungalow.

I'm not sure about what you mean about '
70

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 19:54:42
And the rest! (note to The Scotsman....you need to buy more memory for your blog site....;O)

I'm not sure about what you mean about 'light pollution' from one small building ...presumably your happy with mile upon mile of streetlighting and what about the private residential proclivity to light up the outside of your house like the 4th of July?

Let's keep things in context shall we.

'Grid Connection & Concrete'

Well, I would refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago ;O)

And finally!..........phew (me too)

I agree with you that 'local' production and usage of power is the real answer.

But try telling that to a centralising, control freak government in No10.
71

Radge,

Aberdeen 09/02/2008 20:00:30
#73 "Good to see Calum has at last found his intellectual equal in 'RADGE'.

How sweet! :O)"

What do you mean?
72

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 20:16:31
BogMan.

Ahhhh!

A Welsh Anti Wind Farm site.....sure to deliver an objective view point then! :O)

I note that a lot of the statistics they put forward are ones provided by..........the petrochemical industry! LOL

AND.....they're not even up to date!

Come on BogeyMan!
You should be able to do better than this!

Madey Uppey Statistics that are nearly a decade out of date jumped on by a bunch of Welsh Windbags?

Now where have I heard that expression before.....Welsh Windbag?
73

yoric,

09/02/2008 20:46:58
Each House in the village could have put a small wind mill in their own garden, to power partially their own house.
It would have cost them a fraction of this amount.
74

morris,

edinburgh 09/02/2008 21:18:00
80
Well said .

Local generation is very feasible.I already do it but on a very small scale. Its perfectly practical and I run small appliances from solar and wind power. I find it useful on my caravan etc.
Smaller power generators can indeed be sited on the rooftop of buildings They do NOT need to be windfarms on hills.Whereever there is wind (or waves)there is power. Of course no doubt it will spoil their view of the local nuclear power reactor if you spoil their roof,and lest face it People climb on their roofs all the time (especially if they are barking)!
75

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/02/2008 21:36:01
Good luck to Fintry.

The photograph does remind me of the male spatial awareness though. I reckon he's decided to go to the pub until the queue for the phone box has gone.

What a gentleman - he has plenty of time to phone the bookies.
76

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 22:54:14
BogMan.

Well I suppose if the facts don't matter, then why bother quoting them in the first place?

Excuse me, but what are the "Aesthetics" of people drowning in low lying areas of the world compared to you having to look at a few turbines in the distance?

Are you really that shallow?

Is a 'view' more important than a life?

I am not in favour of any windfarm, be it 'mass' or otherwise, if it is against the majority wishes of the local communities who have to live with it.
We do live in a democracy after all..........(pauses for hollow laughter from the electorate)

I am of the opinion that any windfarm or any form of energy production for that matter should involve the local populace.
Ultimately, I would like to see localised CHP generation for all communities, but the reason that the Green agenda is so bothersome to some folk, has more to do with requiring them to 'use less', when we live in a rampant 'consumer society'.

And who benefit from rampant consumption other than Big Business?
It sure as hell isn't the ordinary people like you or I.

So! I don't 'stand' for short term quick fixes like Nuclear Power so that I can continue my 'consumption' unabated - to be paid for by my great grandchildren and future generations.

We only have this planet on loan from future generations - we should look after it...........not squander it because of....." I WANT....I WANT....AND I WANT IT NOW!
77

Silent Hunter,

09/02/2008 23:04:38
Hi Yoric & Morris.

I believe that Fintry is in a valley in the wind shadow of the nearby hills which would make micro wind generation problematic for the 'windsave' type of micro turbine.

I do believe however that the helical type of micro wind turbine may be suitable due to its more effective use of wind from varying directions and speeds.

But as the old adage goes.........why have a dog and bark yourself?

If they have a 2.5 Megawatt turbine, then they're already effectively a carbon neutral village i.e. all the power Fintry uses is more than offset by the power produced via their turbine.

I understand that they intend to use the income to finance green initiatives within their community, which sounds like a bloody good idea to me. :O)

It would be nice if the folk of the Western Isles could have a chance at this kind of community rejuvenation.