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Gay bishop thanks Scottish Church for recognising 'all God's people'



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Published Date: 04 August 2008
GENE Robinson, the openly gay American bishop barred from attending the Lambeth Conference, yesterday praised the "inclusive" outlook of Scots clergy as he spoke of his belief that worldwide Anglican Communion would eventually recognise "all God's people".
The bishop, who was invited to Scotland to preach, said no-one ought to be apprehensive of change within the Church, but that it would adapt and survive.

"I think the Communion will survive. It will change, but the Church has changed many times in its history. We should not be fearful of that," he said.

In Glasgow yesterday to deliver a sermon, he said Scotland represented a "very appropriate" location for his return to the altar, given it was the Scottish Church that consecrated a bishop for Connecticut in the 18th century, effectively planting the foundations for the Anglican communion in the country.

The 61-year-old's election in 2003 as the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of New Hampshire provoked a furore, threatening a schism within the Communion on the issue of homosexuality.

He has lived openly with another man for 20 years, and in June, they formalised their partnership with a civil ceremony and a service of thanksgiving.

So grave is the situation that the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, said yesterday there should be an extended ban on consecrating another gay bishop until their troubled fellowship can be healed.

Speaking to The Scotsman, Bishop Robinson said he was given a "warm and hospitable" welcome on arriving in Glasgow to celebrate Eucharist at St Mary's Episcopal Cathedral.

"It's a very odd thing for a bishop to be banned from an altar," he said. "But Scotland is a very appropriate place for me to come. This is the place we were given bishops.

"The American Episcopal Church has always felt the support of the Scottish Episcopal Church. It is very refreshing that the Scottish Church has always admitted to its inclusiveness. The English Church may claim inclusiveness, but it is not always in practice."

In his sermon, he expressed confidence that the Anglican Communion would not be able to shun people attracted to others of the same sex.

"It is going to end with the full inclusion of all God's people in God's Church," he told a full congregation. "I don't know when. It doesn't matter when. But I know it is going to be. None of us is on the selection committee. God is on a committee of one."

He added: "It is time for us to stop worrying so much about the Church. The Church is not ours to win or lose; the Church is God's.

"What a dangerous thing it is to put the Bible into the hands of repressed people. They might read it and believe it. They gave it to black slaves to make them docile, but they read it and became educated. They have given it to disabled people … gay and bisexual people.

"Who knows who they'll give it to next? But God will keep giving it to people too, until there's no more 'them', only 'us'."

Bishop Robinson spoke of his disappointment at being shut out of the Lambeth Conference, pointing out that while his photograph was distributed to security checkpoints, inside the gathered were singing hymns such as All Are Welcome.

His visit to Glasgow drew a small group of protesters. Around 20 strong, several of them from the Zionist Baptist Church in the city's southside, they brandished placards, one of which read: "Christ Does Not Deserve This."

Bishop Robinson, who has received death threats since coming out, said of the group: "(The protests] always make me sad. I wonder what has happened in their lives to reach this moment? What strikes me most is the little joy they seem to have."

He also reminisced about his last visit to Scotland in 1971 when in seminary. Recalling time spent in Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Inverness, he said the highlight was a trip to Iona. "When I close my eyes, I am still walking on the beach," he said.

Yesterday's sermon coincided with the final day of the Lambeth Conference, the proceedings of which have been dominated by the bitter row about the position of gays in the Church.

'We have not overcome our problems … that will still take time'

THE spiritual leader of the world's Anglicans yesterday stated his case for an extended ban on consecrating another gay bishop until their troubled fellowship can be healed.

Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, made the plea during the final day of the Lambeth Conference, the once-a-decade Anglican meeting in Canterbury.

The 77-million-member Anglican Communion has been splintering since 2003, when the US Episcopal Church consecrated Gene Robinson.

The 650 bishops at the Lambeth Conference said in a statement that there is widespread support among them for a moratorium on consecrating gay bishops and blessing same-sex couples.

Dr Williams said "pieces are on the board" in order to resolve the dissent over the issue of homosexuality, explaining his idea of a "covenanted future" involving a "global church of inter-dependent communities".

He said: "We have not overcome our problems or reinvented our structures; that will still take time."

But he said there was a recognition, "though still with many questions", that a covenant is needed.

He said he intended to convene a meeting of primates as early as possible next year.

"We may not have put an end to all our problems, but the pieces are on the board," he said. "And in the months ahead it will be important to invite those absent from Lambeth to be involved in these next stages."

He said it was important the Communion stays together, "but not only as an association of polite friends". And he said it was important to "embrace deeper ways of recognising and trusting each other".


The full article contains 986 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 August 2008 9:32 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Anglican Church
 
1

,

04/08/2008 00:07:39
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2

,

04/08/2008 00:33:04
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3

albanman,

04/08/2008 00:41:54
#1 You are just plain offensive. You also need to learn the difference between principal (which you used) and principle (which you should have used). Your grammar is also atrocious and shows that our education system failed you (presuming that you paid attention).
4

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 00:43:58
1

Principal who? Skinner?
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 00:44:44

"Live and Let Live, everyone to their own."

Is it any wonder we have this saying,?
6

­­­,

#1000 David Banks 04/08/2008 00:50:55
Riding to the rescue?
7

­­­,

#4 Conan the Librarian™, 04/08/2008 00:55:23
That old fossil Charles Linskaill or was it his pal Tiny Tim or it could have been someone defending Old Chuckie from the Punctuation Police was talking about you and Spook behind your backs, the other night.
8

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 01:01:27
7
Evening space.

I seen it.

Snide sniping heh heh.
9

­­­,

#3 albanman 04/08/2008 01:05:03
AM2's grammar is beyond reproach, his spelling and punctuation are also "top notch".

What more proof is required that is he, whois masquerading behind that ridiculous moniker at #1?
10

­­­,

#8 Conan the Librarian™, 04/08/2008 01:08:32
Evening C the L...I was shocked and appalled at the cheek of the fellow :-o
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 01:15:32

Goodness Sake! Its the 'mad hoose' around here this-morning.

#10, who ever you are? are you referring to BW,?
12

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 01:24:39
11

No Charles, it was somebody I can't remember seeing before...although that doesn't mean much here.
13

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 01:34:59

Conan ~12,

I must of missed that one, but it don't bother me.

Someone has to put a little 'colour' into this paper, so I just tell it, as it IS!

If People don't like it, so-be-it!

The Scotsman News, have not banned me yet! :))
14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 01:38:13

Maybe they like The 'Sraight',..'Mad Hatter' :)

I am sure that I am more interesting, than the,..

..........."Gay bishop".
15

Canadian Jambo,

04/08/2008 01:41:09
To this point the comments on the article are pathetic. Hopefully #14 and on will have something intelligent to say.
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 01:48:06

Canadian Jambo ~15,

Do you not realise that we are all 'Mad'?

Sorry you had the inconvenience, for dropping in on the,..

'Mad House'! :)))

But realistically, what can one say about a "Gay bishop"?
17

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 01:58:03
15
Jambo, to post first and guide the content are the aims of many of the "contributers" here.

I note you did not actually comment on the story either...
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 02:14:45

'Aye' Conan ~17,

Correct!
19

,

04/08/2008 03:02:06
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20

Pocket Dictionary,

04/08/2008 07:05:16
Zion Baptist church? I thought that had died with its founder - Jack Glass.
21

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 04/08/2008 07:25:14
Homosexual bishops? Heterosexual bishops? Bishops? Why any of them? Jesus never wore fancy dress or lived in a palace. Haven't these Christians made a mistake somewhere along the line?
22

Boy Wonder,

04/08/2008 07:57:52
And amongst the Anglicans, bashing the bishop continues apace!

I repeat from other threads on other days ....

The truly religious man does not embrace a religion; and he who embraces one has no religion.

Kahlil Gibran
23

,

04/08/2008 07:59:01
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,

04/08/2008 08:01:18
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donald anderson it's me,

weegieland 04/08/2008 08:02:06
Since when did the Anglican Party become Scottish?

We'll be telt that Henry VIII, as well as his Church, was Scottish next.
26

tommy,

belfast uk 04/08/2008 08:16:08
Quote..He said he intended to convene a meeting of primates as early as possible next year...Unquote

Any zoo worth its salt had one a day

The church has traditionally been a guide as to moral values but in this liberal society it would seem that moral values have become more like the black arts where "do what thou wilt shall become the whole of the law"
Most now would need a dictionary to discover the meaning of principle
27

thinking,

Scotland 04/08/2008 08:43:35
I was going to comment on this article but have decided it is not worth it.
When I first started reading contributions to this forum contributors, in the main, talked sense and were interested in decent debate.
If today's contributions are anything to go by it's not worth reading any more as most of it is utter drivel and some is offensive drivel.
28

voltaire's janny,

04/08/2008 08:57:50
"I think the Communion will survive. It will change, but the Church has changed many times in its history. We should not be fearful of that," he said.

And there's the point. The Church purports to be telling us something about eternal truth. At times its absolutist morality has led to the most despicable outrages and yet just about anyone donning the perverted mantle of preacher can promptly set about inclusion of his own predilections among what is divinely sanctioned.

Bah humbug. Podger whom you choose, over the age of consent, but keep your sanctimonious mummery to your own deluded shores.

By the way there is nothing remotely odd about banning clergy from altars. That's what cults do! Identify the heretics, the non-conformists, would be modifiers of doctrine and vilify!

"Who knows who they'll give it to next? But God will keep giving it to people too, until there's no more 'them', only 'us'."

Go on yersel God - give it to 'em....

29

bluehead,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 09:04:20
God must be sick, listening to all this hullabaloo,
perhaps it would be a good thing if everybody went their own way,and minded their own business,
it is also wise to to stick to the rule book so that if any thing seems wrong,they can seek the answer there.
30

Jay Kay,

04/08/2008 09:10:01
As controversial as this may seem maybe its time we as the human race moved away from religion all together, as far as my history has taught me it has lead to more bloodshed and death than all the famine and plague's put together. I am convinved that there are older and wiser beings in the universe somewhere, and they must be laughing their a*ses off at our pathetic little struggle.

All the church ever was, and is to this day is a control mechanism for the masses, to keep the peasants in line and to find a way to create fear in their miserable little lives whilst the church built some of the worlds tallest grandest buildings.

The modern day equivilent of course being BIG business as the new alter we pray to, that and of course the boob tube to keep the masses in line.

Dear Bish, you've had yer chips mate no one fears you any more. Please do the world a favour and stop preaching clap trap, having read large swathes of the so called good book I can place hand on heart and say "whit a load of p*sh that is" best leaving it for the moronic old firm to use as fodder for their hate.
31

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 09:51:25
Since the news broke that William of Orange, was in fact, William the Pink, Scottish Protestants everywhere are 'joining' together to celebrate Christianity endorsed poofery!

Roman Catholics have a long tradition of a potent mix of popery and poofery, but you'd never believe macho Protestants would be 'at it' too!?

I feel another Schism coming on.........
32

,

04/08/2008 09:56:01
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33

S'me,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 10:04:33
Good on you Bishop Robinson, a brave intelligent man.
34

danbob,

04/08/2008 10:04:47
32# There is only one version of the bible. The paganistic catholic church added a few books of their own in the early days to control the masses and create wealth. Please folk stop thinking that the churches preach anything like what the bible says. they don't. If you have not read and understood the bible, please don't fall into the trap of thinking that what the churches say is the truth. It says in one of the scriptures that false religions will emerge and poison mens minds agains't God. This is the what the churches are doing.
35

Beth Boyle,

NY 04/08/2008 10:06:00
I do like that #31, a joining of popery and poofery. Being a Presbyterian and solidly democratic and a bit on the Calvinistic side, I find the Episcopal system with its bishops a bit too pretentious and not nearly democratic enough in its hierarchy of Bishops etc.. As was said by another poster, "Christ was not into fancy dress." Perhaps if the Episcopal churches ditched the satin and gold braid they would not attract so many poofters and thus would solve their big problem with Gay bishops and A' that.
36

Florestan,

glasgow 04/08/2008 10:08:17
#32

Horrible Cervical Canker; where would we be without your profund insights and intelligence.

#25

The Scottish Episcopal Church has its own unique and independent history. Please go and study some Scottish history man, before parading your ignorance here.
37

Beth Boyle,

NY 04/08/2008 10:12:33
I do have to agree there #36 and a wonderful history it is and the foundation of the American Episcopal Church came from Scotland as the American were snubbed by the Church of England when they wanted to Join the communion.
38

Brian Hill,

04/08/2008 10:40:36
Kahlil Gibran, now that was an intellect the like of which we don't see every day Boy Wonder #22. His wisdom will continue to shine like a beacon for millenia to come.

As for that other name: Jack Glass, the sincere but slightly deranged 'Minister of God'. Haven't heard that one for decades, thanks for the memory Pockets #20.
39

,

04/08/2008 10:55:36
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40

radge dug,

Dùn Eideann 04/08/2008 10:56:28
Maybe this guy can catch some Rangers games and celebrate with the 'people' the life of King Billy - another nutter who didn't let his supersticions get in the way of a gay life.
41

McGinty,

04/08/2008 11:13:04
If you're a bloke that doesn't like religion and as Mr. Connelly describes, you get JW's at you're door, get them to own up to being JW's which they will do reluctantly. Then inform them that you're standing behind the door naked with an erection and that if they fail to depart thence by the count of ten, the door will be opened. Apparently, most are gone within the first couple of counts. Problem solved.
42

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 11:21:48
Hi Canky,

Christianity in the main has always been set up to fail. The unworkable rules and the killjoy attitudes never stood a chance....Thank Christ!:D

Wasn't Jesus himself a bit light on his feet? Let's face it, a grown man running about the place with his male diciples and having purely platonic relationships with female prostitutes, is a bit suspect! Sounds like Andy Warhol's life!
43

,

04/08/2008 11:47:19
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44

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 04/08/2008 12:03:03
All Christians are going down no matter what they do, Their whole system is built on greed and the spreading of fear. The only good things within belief system is stolen from pagans and twisted to make Pagans look evil and twisted, Gay or not Gay doesn't really matter and no amount of prayers or penance is going to atone for the demons within the christian system of worship.
45

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 12:06:17
#43,

Thanks pal, a noo ken hoo tae spell disciples properly! :)
46

Travis,

Chicago 04/08/2008 12:24:19
Well good morning Charles!
Someday when I tell people that I am an Episcopalian, they won't go oooooooooo! Meaning oh your the one with the Gay Bishop. I took a four year study of the Bible. In the old Testament women are no more then property. We are no better then the cattle. Look were we are today. I hope I live long enough to see us all welcomed at the alter. Someone once told me, Jesus hung with the Lepers. Meaning, all us heritics, and frankly anyone who was against the norm. I have been happily in the group for a long time. The self rightous are very boring.
47

Osama Bin Liner,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 12:40:10
I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of slavvering zealots we normally have have hanging round these stories, though it's early days yet as the US is just waking up.

Glad to see the healthy free thinkers seem to be on toop of things.

Maybe the religious of the world are just getting tired defending the indefensible. Most believers were indoctrinated while young and should ask themselves whether they would have bought the god proposition if they started from zero knowledge of religion and someone had come along and tried to sell it to them as adults.

Would their ability to reason have permitted them to believe it and, if so, what does that say about their ability to think critically? What does it say about those who still cling to the remnants of childhood indoctrination? More worryingly, what does it say about adult converts? Give them a wide berth!
48

Inverie,

Toronto 04/08/2008 12:43:10
Christ told us to love God with all our hearts and our neighbours as ourself. He didn't say anything about excluding anyone from that trinity of love. This Bishops who are so big on quoting from the Bible should explain how their homophobic interpretations fit with that. People misused the Bible to retain power for their exclusive white male club for far too many years. Eventually they let males of other colours in, then some allowed that God also created women in the image of God. Someday they will realize that God also created all the varieties of loving sexuality . . . but don't hold your breathe for the current crop to be that enlightened. Seems too easy for them to only see God in their own reflection . . .
49

sam the god,

04/08/2008 12:47:51
#43 canker

J C the pimp what a hoot but you are probably right about it.
Anyway back to the main story the Scottish church may have accepted him but the general public but it seems that the public were suppressed in their views by the police and the bouncer employed by the church.
50

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04/08/2008 13:03:55
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51

Slartibartfast,

The Fifth Dimension 04/08/2008 13:21:04

... more tepid ploppy...

52

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 04/08/2008 14:11:42
I don't mind what they do in the privacy of their own homes (between consenting adults) as long as they stop thrusting it in my face, so-to-speak.
53

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 04/08/2008 14:16:44
52

Who? Bishops, religious types or gay people?
54

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 04/08/2008 14:28:24
#53 All of the above
55

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 04/08/2008 14:29:36
This man - whoever he is, and where he originates from - lives in cloud cuckoo land?
Why; doesn't he ask the Scottish people instead of quoting his own like kind fraternity who at one time believed the planet was flat and burned people alive at the stake who differed from them in their early beginning.
They all should be made to do a useful days employment
on the minimum wage, instead off sheltering behind an outdate dogs collar!
This planet has been in circulation for BILLIONS off years and not for the nonsense these unemployed pleasure seekers persist in dishing out to heir "flock"
off sheep!
56

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 04/08/2008 14:33:25
54

Fair do's.
57

,

04/08/2008 14:44:25
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58

Canada,

Canada 04/08/2008 15:34:58
Sodom and Gomarrah.
59

Media 1,

cape town 04/08/2008 15:35:27
Isnt it funny how these religious clerics will praise the outward thinking of some institutions and still praise the lord entity who said that man on man love would result in a trip to hell? In otherwords, it doesnt matter that their god hates what they do, it only matters that the outlook of the man made church accepts them.
Mind you, that Jesus fellow used to walk about like a hobo with 13 other robe clad men. One must wonder what used to happen out there in the middle of nowehere at night. I bet there was different sandles under different beds every other night!
Nothing wrong with that, in this day and age we now understand sexuality and accept those who are different to ourselves. But during the day of the robe wearing sandle men, it was quite different.
60

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 04/08/2008 15:44:21
I personally think homosexuality was rife before and during JC's time. Why else would there be specific mention of it in the Bible etc?

Also, consider this. The Romans pretty much invented modern(ish) Christianity. Many Roman Emporers etc were noted homosexuals/bi-sexual and omni-sexuals.

Makes you think, huh?
61

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 04/08/2008 15:59:14
#5 "Live and let live"
Who are you kidding? You tell that to Josef Fritzl, Fred and Rosemary West, Myra Hindley, Wolfgang Priklopil, Robert Mugabe, Ian Huntley etc etc etc the list is endless.
You need rules in society, and if you exclude Christian rules, what are you going to replace them with?
Contrary to popular belief - God does not hate homosexuals - he loves them so much he sent his one and only son to die for them (and us!).
Love the sinner and hate the sin. Gene Robinson - sinner repent
62

indune1,

Canada 04/08/2008 16:59:19


Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Organised religions prey upon the weak and naiive.

When challenged, religious authorities either obfuscate or threaten.

When exposed - ooooh, they would love that word - they deny and condemn.

What a sordid, sorry lot.
63

Big Jock McDoc,

Scotland 04/08/2008 17:09:48
#42

I take it you are one of those homosexuals who thinks every straight person is really homosexual?
64

Osama Bin Liner,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 17:12:11
#61. If you think that society would not have evolved most of the rules we live by today without religion you really do need urgent treatment.

Also remember the ridiculous and repressive laws religious influence gave us on homosexuality (now repealed) and blasphemy.
65

Big Jock McDoc,

Scotland 04/08/2008 17:12:54
Just what to make a little observation if I may. A lot of the comments on here and other threads offer very little logical and constructive criticism of Christianity only insults.
66

tyson,

Sodom, USA 04/08/2008 17:28:46
I left the Epsicopal Church (USA) several years back. The Church hierarchy has a very left-wing agenda, and a rather authoritarian approach toward the average bozo in the pew. After an examination of what they actually did and what I believed, I came to the conclusion that I was wasting my time and perhaps theirs. I am actually somewhat of a small-government social liberal in that I don't care what YOU do, but don't like clerics who simultaneously live as they like, yet preach at me to not only accept their choice, but affirm it as well. I now spend Sundays enjoying a leisurely brunch or go kayaking. I don't miss attending church at all, and they probably don't miss me. All's well.
67

indune1,

Canada 04/08/2008 17:33:18

66 - good on ya!
68

,

04/08/2008 17:36:36
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69

,

04/08/2008 18:09:26
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70

Red Etin,

04/08/2008 18:11:45
There is no god or spirits or angels, no heaven or hell, or purgatory, etc, or even ghosts or spirits.

This bishop along with the other priests, meenisters, evangelists, hindus, buddists, judists, islamist, presbeterians, lutherans, etc, etc, have perpetrated a false belief in a supernatural delusion of immense proportions. Lapped up by the gullible who can't think things through themselves using the simplest of logic.

No prayer or blessing or curse has ever caused anything to change. It's only us, we are here alone. Face it!
71

,

04/08/2008 18:14:48
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72

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 18:35:42
70
I disagree.

I've got spirits in my cupboard;-)
73

Red Etin,

04/08/2008 18:46:53
#71, 72

Davy O'Hara wha I used to serve wi drink in "The Drum" in Shettleston always put it thus. "There's ma two hands tae god, if there's a god".
74

indune1,

Canada 04/08/2008 19:02:04

72 - Conan! It's a bank holiday weekend and I have spirits in me!!
75

indune1,

Canada 04/08/2008 19:02:29

72 - Conan! It's a bank holiday weekend and I have spirits in me!!
76

indune1,

Canada 04/08/2008 19:02:46

72 - Conan! It's a bank holiday weekend and I have spirits in me!!
77

,

04/08/2008 19:07:06
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78

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 04/08/2008 19:28:25
Two answers for the different sides.

God Squad Comment.

Who are you to judge what the lord has created ? He is all knowing and all powerfull and you are but a man questioning his creations. It is thousands of years since S&G were destroyed and he does not seem to have made any issues of the many varying flavours of sexuality. What is it that concerns you so much. I do not believe it is infectious.


Athiest Comment

Anyone willing to let another man do that to them must be sure they are gay. It seems to be there throughout nature and amoung other species and has been going on since the beginning of time in cultures throughout the world especially in the religious ones. Live and let live.

My personal opinion is "Who Cares". I dislike the Gay mafia and the haters who spend far to much time thinking about gay men and their practices.



79

Media 1,

cape town 04/08/2008 19:40:42
A belief in god isnt natural, it is manufactured and indoctrinated nonsense.
Imagine it was illegal to inflitrate the minds of our young with religious speech. Imagine the bible was banished and never again brought up, imagine our schools were not permitted to teach stories about Jesus and the virgin Mary, imagine the word god was banned?
Our kids would be free to mature without any religious beliefs, thus there would be peace throughout the world and almost no discrimination.
A world without religion would be bliss and our children would be spared the uninvited bile that is administered by parents hell bent on taking advantage of their childrens innocent minds in order to fulfil their own needs and their image within their blindfolded societies.
80

henrymanchester,

UK 04/08/2008 20:36:31
All things bright and beautiful, all creature's gay and small.....
81

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:06:57
#69,

Hmmmmm, you don't know my posting history then???
82

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04/08/2008 21:21:08
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Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 04/08/2008 21:49:22
I hereby publicly challenge the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, to study and respond to "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris, "The Life of Jesus" by Marcello Craveri, and "The Fable of Christ" by Luigi Cascioli. Faith is nothing but the suspension of reason connived at by second-hand care salesmen.
As for gays, science indicates that about 9 out of 10 gays are physiologically gay, having no choice whatsoever in the matter. The very latest research publicised indicates that this is at least partly due to depressed serotonin levels during pregnancy. I am sick of religions applying their ancient doggerel to today's world. It's actually sick, really SICK. Banning someone from speaking at a religious meeting shows the entire world exactly what religion is all about, and we should strive to protect children from its narrowminded filth, bringing them up in the bright daylight of reason, not the darkness of superstition with its mediaeval threat of the burning pit of Hell, (based on a halfbaked translation and misunderstanding of the rubbish tip of Gehenna outside Jerusalem). HOW DARE CHRISTIANS TERRORISE LITTLE CHILDREN WITH SUCH TRIPE AS THE DEVIL AND HELL! HOW DARE YOU! And let us never forget the martyrs who were burnt at the stake and under torture OPPOSING the fascism of Christianity - the Jews, Conversos, Muslims, Albigensians, Cathars, Monophysites and so many, many more that died horrific deaths at Christian hands. And let us recall that thousands of tribal songs, fables and beliefs have been wiped out by missionaries - a vast, irreplaceable wealth of human culture obliterated & replaced by the sterility of Christianity with its screwball Trinity.
84

First Class,

04/08/2008 21:57:31
Caora, 83

What a terrible post!

Do you think this is an appropriate forum to publicly challenge an Archbishop? Really?

You demonise "religion" (all religion?) on the basis of difficulties the Anglican Church has got into over homosexual bishops.

You're coming across as bigoted and ignorant.
85

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:01:01
Media 1, 79

I have a different view. I choose to bring up my children in my chosen religion. I believe my religious beliefs form a sound basis for a loving upbringing, and that religion enhances their existence.

So, I have an idea...

How about you do your heathen thang....and I'll do my religious thang? Is that OK with you?
86

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:02:17
Surely these bishops are not "gay"?

Surely they're HOMOSEXUALS?
87

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:05:30
Dane, 68

There has been mass homosexuality at Ibrox for decades.

Thousands of them singing and chanting their bizarre desire to fornicate with an elderly German fella (Benedict) and prior to him and elderly Polish guy (John Paul)

Repeatedly they chanted they wanted to €uck him!!!
88

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:07:20
Red, 70

Thank you for your posting your personal opinion here. It was illuminating.
89

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 22:08:54
86
Thing is First Class, did your parents bring "you" up in their chosen religion?

And to have a terrible fear of homosexuals?

Or were you on the road to Damascus one day...
90

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:11:53
Conan 89

Yes, I was brought up in the faith of my fathers. It has enriched my life. Is that OK with you?

I have no fear of homosexuals, and my parents taught me to respect all.

I've never been to Damascus. I'm from Kirkie.
91

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 22:14:01
#87,

Who is the geezer at Ibrox wi' the big bushy sideburns and Sherlock Holmes outfits? Canny put a name tae the boy, but he's the greatest exponent of poofery in the gers ranks at the moment!
92

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:17:07
AJ 91

Donald F_T_P Findlay!
93

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:21:10
Allow me to quote an innocuous little part of The Scotsman article:

"He has lived openly with another man for 20 years, and in June, they formalised their partnership with a civil ceremony and a service of thanksgiving."

Does that mean this Bishop has been fornicating?

Has he been soddomising another man?
94

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 22:21:15
That could be the boy, but am nae sure! Did he sing the auld ditty:- Yoohoo, yoohoo, we are the Billy boys?
95

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:24:04
AJ, 94

Aye, I believe the sash his father wore was a really nice pink colour.
96

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 22:26:11
90
You respect all?

Well I don't respect paedophile priests, nor sectarian organisations, or imams that say it's ok to be a suicide bomber for Islam.

So we shall have to differ.
97

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:29:48
How would Church of Scotland elders react to news that a Bishop was going to be a few minutes late for Service on a Sunday morning?

You see....he was just soddomising Raymond's hairy €rse on the kitchen table, and needed to have a shower to get rid of the brown before preaching the loving word of their Lord & Saviour.
98

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:33:02
Conan 96

We do not differ there, Conan.

I despise all those groups you cite, Conan.

Where we differ is I despise ALL paedophiles, not just the tiny group you single out.

I despise ALL terrorists - and those who incite them.

So I suppose we'll have to differ there, Conan, and I'll leave you with your contempt for SOME paedos and SOME terrorists.
99

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 22:43:53
98
Semantics and you know it.

Religions can provide cover for all sorts of wrongdoing, for who used to believe the child's word against the Holy man's.

The Holy man tells us that HIS way is the ONLY way to salvation; so get your semtex and AK47's and smite the unbeliever.
100

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 22:46:36
Dum inter homines sumus, colamus humanitatem.

Pax tecum, primus:-)
101

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:49:47
Conan, 99

Religions can be used by evil men to support all sorts of wicked dogma. You're providing a good example tonight, Conan.

You're choosing to present a perverse interpretation of religion to justify your deep rooted intolerant secularism.

You're blinkered, Conan. You chose to codemn only the paedophilia of Priests. But Priests represent only a tiny % of the mass paedophilia that exists in our society and others.

Is the paedophilia of Teachers somehow less appalling, Conan? Are you less troubled by the paedophilia of Dentists? Doctors? Scout Masters?

Then why single out Priests for you scorn?

Is it because you are a bigot? I think so.
102

First Class,

04/08/2008 22:50:56
Conan, 100

OMG...you've got a bad dose!
103

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04/08/2008 22:56:18
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104

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 22:59:48
101
A bigot? In what sense do you mean?

Am I bigoted because I think religion is a cause for hatred and war?

And your posts at 86 and 87.Wonderfully balanced.

You are a homophobe and a bigot by those comments.

And I am a very heterosexual long term married grandfather, who happened to be born a Catholic.

Yourself?
105

,

04/08/2008 23:04:03
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106

,

04/08/2008 23:06:13
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107

First Class,

04/08/2008 23:07:45
Horrible 105

Fascinating post. You are talking about Limerick in 1914, right?

108

First Class,

04/08/2008 23:09:26
Conan 104

LOL!!!!!!!

Now I've seen everything!!!!

You reckon I'm a homophobe because I use the word HOMOSEXUAL to describe a ......homosexual!!!

Bawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhh!!!