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Lib Dems want Holyrood to have total control over raising funds



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Published Date: 08 September 2008
HOLYROOD should be given complete control over income tax, the Liberal Democrats are expected to demand as part of the review of devolution.
The findings of the Steel Commission, chaired by the former Liberal leader Sir David Steel, has supported the view that new tax-raising powers and far more strategic policy control should be given to Scottish Parliament.

The commission is now con
sidering which taxes should be handed over, but a senior Scottish Liberal Democrat source said the commission was likely to recommend total control of income tax levels as well as smaller taxes like stamp duty.

"The view seems to be that varying income tax levels by 3p or any other rate is not nearly enough and we need to take complete control of income tax in Scotland as well as other taxes where it is feasible," he said.

Tavish Scott, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, has formally presented the report to the Calman Commission, the body set up by the UK government to look at the future of devolution. The document was approved by the party's MPs, MSPs and MEPs at a meeting last week.

The report points that total fiscal autonomy or home rule – which would see Scotland take total responsibility for taxes while sending money to Westminster for defence and foreign affairs – does not exist anywhere else in the world, but fiscal federalism, which allows regions to take control of most taxes, is a tried and tested model.

Mr Scott said: "We believe that the recommendations and conclusions of the Steel Commission stand the test of time and offer a strong framework for a new settlement for Scotland in the UK."

The Liberal Democrats received a boost when former Labour first minister Henry McLeish also came out in favour of a federal system for the UK.

He wants Scotland to have more tax raising powers and said that there should be an equivalent English parliament to Holyrood. His comments followed an admission by Gordon Brown last week that Holyrood needed to be more accountable for raising money not just spending it.





The full article contains 357 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 September 2008 9:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Liberal Democrats
 
1

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 08/09/2008 00:05:41
Anything that keeps Bean and his idiot policies away from Scottish money is a good thing.
2

Guga II,

Rockall 08/09/2008 01:01:26
Let's hear it for total Scottish control over every aspect of Scottish affairs; including all revenues, even oil revenues.
3

Willie Macleod,

Wick 08/09/2008 01:21:17
#2 Guga In last weeks Scotland on Sunday Brown thread
You said I would make a good Wickerman

If you want to put me in a Wickerman could I have Britt Ekland with me just for company you understand.
And let the good Sergeant Howie back to the mainland safely.
4

Senga Jean,

08/09/2008 01:33:46
Why do the Lib/Dems stop short of taking full responsibility? We CAN dae it. We have all the skills . ALL WE NEED IS CONFIDENCE!
5

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 08/09/2008 08:38:54
#2 Guga. Absolutely, oil revenues must come under the control of Holyrood. Once that happens, Westminster will have far less of an interest in keeping Scotland within the UK.
6

danielrober,

08/09/2008 09:25:38
If the SNP will not provide an explanation of this new tax to the general public will the Lib Dems.

Really many of us (most of us, including me) are not tax experts and we need more information.
7

Alan B,

08/09/2008 09:45:53
"The report points that total fiscal autonomy or home rule – which would see Scotland take total responsibility for taxes while sending money to Westminster for defence and foreign affairs – does not exist anywhere else in the world"

2 points

1)the eu have fiscal autonomy, with nation states responsible for raising all taxes and sending money centrally for shared services. As such the above statement is not true.

2)if the lib dems are worried about not having a structure that is different from elsewhere in the world then they would not back the union in the first place.

8

Alan B,

08/09/2008 09:49:50
Cannot see how anything short of fiscal autonomy is really workable.

Anything short will be seen as inadaquate and probably unworkable.

Can anyone point to any serious advantage of fiscal federalism over fiscal autonomy?

Probably the most important tax to devolved would be corporation tax. But to change the rate of corporation tax you may want to offset it by changing other taxes most likely VAT.
9

Doh,

08/09/2008 09:53:52


Seems like a good common sense to me.

Although I dont feel that hand of history on my shoulder I do beleive that federalsim will grow in support. It is more than just a constitutional arrangement - it is a postive willingness to make common cause with neighbours and friends.

A reconcillation of distant past, with the present and the best way forward for the future.
10

Alan B,

08/09/2008 10:03:43
#Doh

I can understand why you support a federal uk but why fiscal federalism. I cannot see any advantage of fiscal federalism over fiscal autonomy.

Tavish Scott said on tv he supports most taxes being raised in scotland including considering oil. His personal position seemed to be almost fiscal autonomy but as Kennedy said of him - giving himself wriggle room.

As i see it devolved social security and taxation and you are more likely to have a federal system that is workable.
11

Doh,

08/09/2008 12:34:17
#10

Sounds a bit academic the difference between fiscal federalism and fiscal autonomy - I am note sure what the difference would really be in practice.

I guess the main goal should be that taxes raised in Scotland (i.e. by the Scottish Parliament) should be at the disposal of the Scottish Parliament - thus giving them the fiscal responsibility which they currently lack.

Federal taxes would need to be identified to pay for federal "services" - givin the sterile debate about LIT at the moment I doubt anyone would suggest that property tax should be used to pay for federal government.

I guess the main point is that federal taxation should be clearly identified so that people know what they are getting for the money. Personally I see no problem with Scotland and Westmonster both setting an income tax rate.

Of course the problem is how to get to this happy modern federal Britain - I say persuasion and common sense. I imagine the SNP have a stronger card to play - take it - or we leave it!
12

Darien,

Panama 08/09/2008 12:56:35
Tavish for Foreign Minister in the new independent Scottish Government from 2010. You heard it here first.
13

Darien,

Panama 08/09/2008 13:00:02
#12 Downside of fiscal federalism is that ultimately all parties in the joint venture (e.g. all UK 'nations/regions') are collectively ultimately responsible for the debts of the federal government. That means Scotland would be partly responsible for the continued economic decline of other parts of the UK. So far better with full fiscal autonomy which only independence gaurantees.
14

Ken Mare,

Edinburgh 08/09/2008 13:48:04
God help us all !
15

Doh,

08/09/2008 16:57:47
#15

For you anything.

Do you want me to part the waters as well?
16

Highland Mighty©,

08/09/2008 17:15:19
11. Peddling this old piece of nonsense on ALL pages, are you?

Well, I'll just show how the SNP have totally discredited this 'analysis' on ALL pages then.

The SNP's GERS v The 'Great Deception':

GD: Betting and Gaming revenue should be £121m.
SNP-GERS: Betting and Gaming Revenue is £95m
*GD is wrong by 21.5%*

GD: Non-North Sea Corporation Tax should be £4.322bn.
SNP-GERS: Non-North Sea CT is £3.019bn.
*GD is wrong by 30%*

GD: Inheritance Tax should be £297m.
SNP-GERS: Inheritance Tax revenue is £228m.
*GD is wrong by 23%*

GD: Council Taxes should total £2.006bn.
SNP-GERS: Council Taxes total £1.812bn.
*GD is wrong by 9.7%*

GD: Defence expenditure should be £954m.
SNP-GERS: Defence expenditure is £2.729bn
*GD is wrong by a whopping 65%!*

GD: Public safety expenditure should be £1.817bn.
SNP-GERS: Public safety expenditure is £2.292bn.
*GD is wrong by 21%*

GD: Net balance is a surplus of £1.873bn.
SNP-GERS: Net balance is a deficit of £2.7bn.
*GD is wrong by £4.573bn*

In conclusion, the 'Great Deception' lives up to its name....but not in the way the nats think!
17

morris,

edinburgh 08/09/2008 17:32:44
Not so long ago the Liberals supported a system of Federalism,which presumably meant each member state or region,collected ALL taxes and paid part of it to Westminster to cover National non devolved issues.That what I understand by Federation anyway.

The debate over what should be included is a watered down back tracking no matter what it contains.If Westminster treats Scotland fairly (as she claims) she can have no objection to our doing this CAN SHE?
In fact we will no longer be the subsidy junkie that we are according to them.They should go for it in a flash......................or they are the conmen that half of us know they are,and the rest are about to realise at long last!

Scotland pay attention because you are about to see Westminster prove that they have been conning you for decades now by refusing to enter into anything which they do not control, for fear of the truth emerging.
Some of us knew this decades ago of course.
18

Sanny,

Glasgow or Algarve 08/09/2008 19:13:27
17 Highland Mighty

OK Highland Pratt- Have you the courage to debate your opinion with Nial Aslen?

Let's see you move over to the Herald Forum and argue your point there; that is if you have the intelligence or the courage - both of which I doubt!
19

Sanny,

Glasgow or Algarve 08/09/2008 19:20:20
17 Highland Mighty
Incidentally I seem to recall that 'The Great Deception' was submitted to the Treasury and they confirmed the figures were correct. Still HM; why should you let the truth stand in the way of your bile????

Nial Aslen always quotes his sources, therefore they can be checked. What's your sources? The GERS ?
20

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 10:56:30
17

So who's figures are right and who's are wrong?
are there any objective sourses to back up either claims?

 

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