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New law on teenage sex 'will make criminals of young girls'



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Published Date: 03 October 2008
PLANS to reform the laws governing teenage sex could "criminalise" young teenage girls for having intercourse, MSPs have been told.
Professor Kathleen Marshall said that the proposal, which could see girls facing prosecution for consensual sex in the same way as boys, should be abandoned until its likely consequences can be studied.

The provision forms part of the Sexual Of
fences Bill, which was launched in June.

The move by the government ignores a previous report by the Scottish Law Commission which recommended consensual sex between older children should not be a criminal offence, and should instead be grounds for referral to a children's reporter on welfare grounds, effectively decriminalising sex between youngsters over 13.

The bill instead confirms it is an offence for children between 13 and 15 to have sex – and this applies to girls as well as boys.

A Scottish Government policy document published with the bill said: "We have adopted this approach as we believe that the way in which the law currently acts to criminalise only boys (where the activity is consensual and both are of similar age) is discriminatory."

But Prof Marshall said this could have a range of unintended consequences – including criminalising young girls and discouraging them from seeking medical advice.

"We need to be certain that the threat of legal punishment and criminalisation does, in fact, prevent early sexual activity," said Prof Marshall.

"Extending the threat – empty or otherwise – to girls may have serious negative consequences, such as preventing them from seeking help and advice."

She went on: "Likewise, I have sympathy with those people who worry that decriminalising consensual sex between 13 and 15-year-olds may lead to it becoming normalised. I would not like this fear to be realised."

Prof Marshall insisted she did not want the age of consent lowered, and that what she was pushing for was a welfare response, not a criminal one.

A Scottish Government spokesman defended the plan: "This is not about prosecuting children in the adult criminal courts for consensual sexual activity." Labour also backed the bill's provisions. Its spokesman, Paul Martin, said: "By decriminalising underage sex, we would be sending out the wrong message to our children and also to adults who prey on our children.

"The age of consent in the UK is 16, and it should be 16 for both boys and girls. We need to ensure that we protect our children and put their safety first."

John Deighan, parliamentary officer for the Catholic Church, said such laws were vital.

"We understand Kathleen Marshall's intentions, but the criminal law provides protection," he said.

"It's not about making life difficult for youngsters, it's about giving the authorities the mechanisms to intervene where there is unusual sexual behaviour, and sex between 13-year-olds is unusual."

But Anne Houston, chief executive of the charity Children 1st, supported Prof Marshall. She said: "We agree with the Children's Commissioner that criminalising young girls aged 13-15 who engage in consensual sexual activity with their peers would be a retrograde step.

"We want to see greater clarity about where the law and its implementation stands, as the current uncertainty is hampering young people's ability to access the information and advice they need to make positive decisions about their sexual health."

FACT BOX

AT PRESENT, the law concerning underage sex states that it is an imprisonable offence for males to have intercourse with girls aged between 13 and 16, whether or not consent is given.

The penalties can range from 12 months under summary hearing – ie, with just a sheriff sitting – and up to ten years in jury trials.

Those found guilty also face being placed on the sex offenders' register. However, where the ages of the boy and girl are similar, the boy is likely to be dealt with more leniently.

John Scott, a human rights lawyer, said: "It is a prosecutable offence and it can, and does, get used on young guys."





The full article contains 668 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 October 2008 11:45 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

subrosa,

03/10/2008 00:34:38
At last some progress on ensuring that girls realise sex isn't a game. I agree with this decision.
2

truthsleuth,

03/10/2008 00:55:12
Surely this is the equality of sexes the female emancipationists have been seeking.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
3

Scullion,

Canada 03/10/2008 01:22:47
Absolute nonsense. Criminalizing behaviour does nothing to prevent it (look at the silly drug laws).
Sarah Palin's daughter (only a year older) shows that even with a constant shrill siren of abstinence going off in your ear, nature is going to take its course. Education not criminilization is the true answer.

I've just noticed that some blackguard is using my name to post homophobic, personal attacks against fellow posters. I trust most people who read my nonsense knows that I'm a harmless liberal-plus I rarely post more than one note per subject.
4

Porry,

Lower Saxony 03/10/2008 04:39:44
Exactly, truthsleuth. Except, it should read, 'What is good for the gander is good for the goose' here.
5

james 1st,

hamilton nz 03/10/2008 05:14:32
is anyone taking this professor marshall to court as she is in danger of discriminating against young boys purely on the basis of sex
if it is a crime for a boy of 13 to 15 to have sex then is should be a crime for a girl of 13 to 15 to have sex
ì see above that someone mentions education, well it appears to me that the more education on sex that young people get the more that the want to practise
6

fife runner,

03/10/2008 06:50:08
totally agree with 5
7

W Smith,

Middle East 03/10/2008 07:43:00
Kathleen Marshall is a complete waste of space - and a waste of money.

It reflects badly on the Scots when so many UNELECTED weirdos have so much say.

If its not Marshall it Duncan Mclaren.

If its not our Dunc its Osama Saeed.

If its not Jihadist Osama Saeed its some other unelected loud mouthed dolt.

BTW
What Marshall knows aobut bringing up children properly can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I wouldn't give this woman the time of day.
8

Guga II,

Rockall 03/10/2008 07:49:51
I also totally agree with #5.
9

TREV,

Poland 03/10/2008 08:09:57
Surely by making girls responsible for their actions is denying that only nasty, horrible boys want to have sex. Come on, everybody knows that only men are capable of sex crimes, aren't they?

10

yockel,

03/10/2008 08:12:13
We may all agree with 5# but why is it a crime in the first place? I can see the arguement where old predators are involved but otherwise appears to be an unnecessary intrusion in to private life.
11

JG,

Fife 03/10/2008 09:12:36
#5 James 1st

"if it is a crime for a boy of 13 to 15 to have sex then is should be a crime for a girl of 13 to 15 to have sex"

Read what Katherine Marshall said again. She wasn't trying to criminalise boys and 'let off' the girls. This new law is stupid. Surely the best thing is to discourage kids from having sex at too young an age. Boys and girls.

I know on a thread like this we'll have a procession of the 'hang 'em' brigade and the anti men/women shower. Think about it though - if they do make this a crime (and yes, I include the boys) will the stigma of a sexual conviction follow them for the rest of their lives and prevent lots of people from becoming teachers, social workers, scout leaders...........? What's the point of the government having a children's tsar and then not bothering to listen to her?
12

hertscot,

03/10/2008 09:22:11
Agree with #5.

#12
13-15 yr old boys are already criminalised for this activity.
to paraphrase Orwell

Both sexes are equal, but sometimes one is more equal than the other.
13

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/10/2008 09:26:16
I also agree with #5.

There is a case for decriminalising the boy's act.
14

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 03/10/2008 10:04:22
Nothing new here. It has always been a crime but there has never been a prosecution - possibly something to do with the evidence standing up in court!

This is simply another case of introducing a new law which will never be enforced to replace an old law which has never been enforced.
15

Anonym,

03/10/2008 10:06:16
#15... because in Scotland we believe in free speech for all.

It's probably in our interests to be able to express our opinions and ideas freely, regardless of where we live.

My opinion is that the law is an ass and a tedious bore. Young people having sex is not a problem so long as they don't produce babies they cannot provide for.
16

Scythia,

Alba 03/10/2008 10:22:10
These people have no right to interfere with anyones personal lives.
17

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 10:30:59
This pathetic government would criminalise the entire population given half the chance.
18

Blether2,

Not up the duff 03/10/2008 10:31:42
Why so much celebration at turning Scottish girls into just as much criminals as we make our boys ? What a lot of misogynistic rubbish. Sauce ? Maybe you should try "what's spilt crude for the goose is spilt crude for the gander".

Yes, fine, have a law that targets older predatory men. Make up your own formula - it doesn't have to be complicated. You can even make it apply to women, too, since the wave of older women preying on 13-year-old boys is such a major issue.

Scullion's dead right on ths one - education and social norms are the answer. Dutch kids'd be ashamed, in general, to mess up their lives with teenage pregnancy. There's a difference between sex and breeding, in case anyone need be told. Condom ? Pill ? Blowjob ? And who's that saying 'sex isn't a game', and how many children do you have ?

In Japan the age of consent is 13, flat. It became illegal a few years ago to *pay* a woman under 18 for sex. But then Japan's just a model of social breakdown and national failure, isn't it ?
19

Scotsman in Dublin,

03/10/2008 10:34:45
I'm not sure if this should be a crime at all, but if it is a crime it should apply equally to males and females. So much time importance seems to be put on ensuring that women achieve equality with men but much less emphasis when it goes the other way.
20

Miss H,

03/10/2008 10:35:00
It's not about criminalising people. How many boys under the age of 16 have been prosecuted for having sex? It doesn't happen now, there is no reason to believe it would happen if what the Government suggests goes through.

It would probably be best if the Law Commission's recommendations were accepted entirely on this but if they were I think we all know what kind of hysterical over-reaction that would provoke. So on pragmatic grounds the position the Government has taken is probably correct.

21

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 10:42:19
#22 Miss H you are defending the indefensible. The only decent, sensible approach to equality under the law is to decriminalise boys. What you describe as pragmatism is in fact nothing more than bending to the whim of organised religion, a feat which your party has become more and more practised at in recent years.

Quite frankly if the SNP are getting support from the Catholic Church West Coast Cabal on this issue then that should be setting off all kinds of warning bells in Bute House.
22

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 10:44:24
#22 In fact I would point you at the experience of another unjust sex law which was never used in a prosecution but which had a dramatic effect on the support available to young people - Section 28. Exactly the same reasons were posited by the Tories for keeping it as the SNP is positing here. And exactly the same rent-a-mob religious types lined up behind them as are lining up behind you.

Time to get a grip.
23

Anonym,

03/10/2008 10:48:12
Miss H # 22.

It is about criminalising people. Young girls are people too.

I don't know how many boys under the age of 16 have been prosecuted for having sex, but according to the 'Fact Box' paragraph at the end of the article, it can and does happen.
24

Blether2,

03/10/2008 10:50:27
#22 Miss H - I disagree. I think it's fundamentally wrong to have a law on the books that says it's criminal for two 15-year-olds to fork each other (sorry, not my choice of word, there's censorship here). It's purely a social issue.

This law gives young people the wrong idea about sex (it's illicit/prohibited/wrong, without exception) and fosters disrespect for the law.

25

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 03/10/2008 11:06:03
9 Dave from Barra

I think there is not yet any mention of "gay sex" because the policy makers don't want to believe that it happens every day in Scotland and everywhere else, no matter what the American fundamentalist lunatic fringe wants to believe.

It is like the occasion when, during Victorian times, severe laws were enacted to penalise and punish cruelly consenting acts between adult men even in the privacy of their own homes.

Lesbian encounters were not mentioned and even Queen Victoria could not envision such a thing happening between two women.

Victoria was a lusty lady and practically drained the manly juices of Albert dry with her insistent and daily demands for "servicing".

Is it any wonder that she had around nine children and Albert died very young from sexual exhaustion and other causes?
26

Jams,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 11:20:38
#22 - its about basic inequality. Two people the same age can commit the same act but face separate penalties based purely on their gender.

A young boy can be cautioned rather than charged and his name added to the sex offenders register. In five or ten years time this can simply be read as having had sex with an underage girl (i.e. making him a paedophile).

The situation is blatantly sexist and makes a mockery of the law. It should be corrected one way or the other.
27

FISHWICK,

berwick upon tweed 03/10/2008 11:30:07
The dam has already been breached - many children 13 - 15 see sex as their right. Their attitude is what right have adults to decide for them. You can't really blame them when they know that neither teachers nor parents any longer have the legal wherewithal to discipline them.
28

,

03/10/2008 11:56:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

bluehead,

edinburgh 03/10/2008 11:59:33
is there any brain in working order in the Scottish goverment,some of their decisions border on the moronic,
if they keep going on as they are doing the Scottish people will soon lose all confidence in them,it is time the showed some intelligence,and stopped floating about like balloons in the wind,and come down to earth
30

Miss H,

03/10/2008 12:02:26
23 Oh rubbish. You know perfectly well that if the SNP has accepted the law commission's proposals in their entirity every newspaper in Scotland would have been shrieking SNP wants to lower age of consent to 13 and your precious Labour Party would have been right in there trying to make matters worse (along the same lines as 'SNP wants to empty the jails of murderers, rapists and pedophiles who will be free to walk the streets and attack hardworking families etc etc).
31

Miss H,

03/10/2008 12:04:12
Incidentally Duncan sectarian comments don't really help your case.
32

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

03/10/2008 12:23:41
I'm astonished that the Scottish Law Commission should want to legalise sex with 13-year-olds. Do lawyers really want to put up a defence for clients amounting to "What, with the makeup and the way she was dressed M'Lud, I thought she really was thirteen"?
33

TREV,

Poland 03/10/2008 12:40:43
#34, I think it's mor concerned with both participants being at the lower end of the age spectrum.

I believe the case in Poland (I stand to be corrected) is that the heavier law is for someone over the age of 18 having sex with an under 18. With teenagers amongst themselves it tends to be overlooked if it's nothing too extreme.
34

AbandonAllHope,

03/10/2008 13:02:06
Sex is for pleasure, i dont think many 13 - 16 year olds give a flying f for the legislators and neither should they.
35

Cassandra,

03/10/2008 13:02:42
Sooner or later Duncan had to make a comment I agree with. I think he's wrong about the religious connection, however - but it seems ridiculous to me to criminalise young people or either sex for engaging in a perfectly natural activity, even if it's undesirable. Rape and paedophilia are already illegal against both sexes - why not leave it there? You can't legislate against human nature.

I acknowledge that teenage pregnancy and having kids you can't support are problems and should be vigorously discouraged. But will a pregnant teenage girl now be sentenced - after all, she can't deny having broken the law.

And think of the DNA collection and testing that will now be possible. This is a good way of swelling the databank. What a can of worms!
36

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 13:38:55
#33 Miss H I am absolutely horrified at the accusation of sectarianism. Apart from anything, having been brought up a Catholic and now being an atheist, anti Catholic comments from me could not possibly be sectarian.

I would ask you to withdraw that utterly false accusation. I made an entirely valid criticism of the Catholic church, and there was no sectarian element to it whatsoever.
37

Big Carbon Footprint,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 13:39:02
About time something was done to tackle this massive problem of teenage pregnancies.
One just needs to look around to see the emergence of a sub-class who have no standards what so ever, in short they are parasitic scum sucking the life from the welfare state whilst our hard working long suffering Pensioners have to make the decision heat or eat!
This excuse that the pregnancy was an accident, in this modern day there are no excuses, very easy, keep your legs shut!
38

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 13:43:13
#32 Addressing the meat of your response now - sometimes leadership means making a stand for what is right. Wendy Alexander did that in her fight for Section 28 repeal against the most unpleasant opposition (now you party's single biggest funder). The character assassination she suffered at the time helped to undermine her later career. But sticking to her principles in the face of such opposition was a sign of true leadership.

In contrast, Alex Salmond makes a speech in the RC cathedral backing sectarian schooling. You must be so inspired.

If it's the right thing to do, do it; don't run scared of the tabloids or the church vote. Especially during your honeymoon period.
39

Gusto,

03/10/2008 13:50:47
I think its pretty well established that the more you say "dont do it" the more chance you have that they WILL do it. A bit of education at least gives them the choice to ignore consequences, rather than be ignorant of them.
They are only following subliminal messages after all.
40

Miss H,

03/10/2008 13:56:51
45 Aye right Duncan - no-one talking about the 'Catholic Church West Coast Cabal' could possibly be sectarian could they?
41

Big Carbon Footprint,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 14:01:05
Post 47.
It's not often I would but I'm calling you a Bigot, the problem of Sectarianism does not come from Catholic Schools,

It comes from small minded bigots like yourself who cannot accept there are people who are different from you, Religion is not that problem it's the ignorance of that Religion, plus the major point these people sprouting hate and using a Religious framework I would be very surprised if they even knew what the inside of a church looked like.
clearly you know jack all about the curriculum.

How about showing us some evidence in the form of an inspectors report saying bigoted views are being taught in any school, can't find some?
Well I can certainly show report about a very good balanced view being taught, enabling people to make rational views not spew the hate your sort continually vomit.

Next time you see an Orange walk, stop one of the marchers ask them why they are there.
I wonder where they get their views, did they go to a Catholic school?? How would you account for Loyalist hatred???

Sorry everyone for the rant, I just have no time for narrow minded bigots.
42

Miss H,

03/10/2008 14:04:34
47 In case you haven't noticed the SNP is not in the habit of running scared of negative media coverage nor indeed of political opposition.

However you pick fights that are actually important. This isn't. The whole bill is important, this is actually a minor issue - no pun intended. There is no great principle or issue at stake here, the proposals will not result in underage girls being criminalised for having sex. The Scottish Government spokesperson made that absolutely clear.

It may of course result in underage girls (and boys) being referred to a children's hearing. I don't have a problem with that.
43

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 14:14:21
#50 Sectarianism is discrimination arising from actual or perceived divisions within a religious group.

What I am is anti-Catholic, and anti-organised religion in general.

There is a profound difference.

My reference to the Catholic Church West Coast Cabal refers to the Catholic Media office, which, under the leadership of Mario Conti, runs a quite distinctly different agenda from that of the leader of Scotland's Catholics, Keith O'Brien. It is the Media Office which co-ordinates parliamentary lobbying such as this.
44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 14:16:57
#51 I was educated at a Catholic school. I have a very clear understanding of what it means, and how it promotes separation and division. I have a similar distaste for Protestant education, or any form which promotes the idea that our morals should come from a bad translation of a dubious subset of an ancient set of transliterations of oral histories from a culture long dead.

Denominational schools of any kind are indefensible.
45

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 14:18:20
#52 I have noticed that the SNP has been courting the church vote since before the May election, and continues to do so.

You may remember Mario Conti noticed the same thing, when he said that the SNP represented Catholic interests better than the Labour Party did.

Was that a moment of pride for you?
46

Campaign Lawer,

Elgin 03/10/2008 14:39:02
Professor Kathleen Marshall (Commissioner for Children and Young People in Scotland)should stick to what her title suggests and not be involved in sexism in the playground, we have enough woman trying this with the older generation such as Harriet Harman.
I wrote to Kathleen Marshall a number of years ago regarding "best interest of the child issues" and why fathers were still ignored during custody issues.
I still await a reply. Says it all really.
47

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 14:45:32
#56 You need to learn what the responsibilities of her post are. That would explain to you why this is an issue of relevance to her, and why fathers' rights are outwith her sphere of influence.

I hope to god you are not actually a "lawyer".
48

Miss H,

03/10/2008 15:05:57
55 There is no such thing as the 'church' vote. People of religious beliefs do not vote in a bloc any more than people without religious beliefs do. The Labour Party may for many years have believed that they had 'the Catholic vote' stitched up. They didn't because there isn't a Catholic vote. It's a myth.
49

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 15:16:01
#58 Well Alex Salmond certainly believes the myth then, judging by his performance in St Mary's.
50

Matt there,

Somewhere 03/10/2008 16:02:19
Professor Kathleen Marshall said: "Let's not gave equality."

Next she will be calling for the repeal of the Equal Pay Act and... oh! She won't! How did we know that?
51

Matt there,

Somewhere 03/10/2008 16:02:45
Or have not gave. Sorry!
52

Campaign Lawer,

Elgin 03/10/2008 16:11:34
Duncan in Edinburgh,#57
Children's Commissioner Kathleen Marshall to stand down
(She has chucked her job in, surprise surprise)
http://heritage.scotsman.com/scotland/Children39s-Commissioner-Kathleen-Marshall-to.4463978.jp
Her job was to "promote and safeguard the rights of children and young people". Which includes their right to see both parents after separation which is written into the HRA and ratified by this Government also the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
She has spent little or no time on this issue, I expect through political pressure.
Sounds like you are a very jittery Lawyer with a spare afternoon. If I was a Lawyer I would at least spell it properly.
53

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 03/10/2008 16:12:25
Miss H wrote:

"There is no such thing as the 'church' vote. People of religious beliefs do not vote in a bloc any more than people without religious beliefs do. The Labour Party may for many years have believed that they had 'the Catholic vote' stitched up. They didn't because there isn't a Catholic vote. It's a myth."

I think this is true. Even Muslims I've spoken with about politics seem pretty varied, or non-political.

But the myth is useful to create a 'bogeyman' and to target prejudice at.

Back to the article. Consensual sex - if the ages are similar, no-one gets prosecuted. However such a law can be useful if adults somehow were encouraging minors to engage in sexual activity with each other. It's also useful because in working with kids you can say: "The law says its illegal before 16..." and you can explain why kids shouldn't feel pressurised into sex, and why society feels sex is a negative thing for kids too young.
54

livilion,

livingston 03/10/2008 16:14:26
I agree with #5

Young lassies do not have the same mindset as young lassies of 20-30 years ago.
Quite often, like their older girl empowered sisters and mothers, they are the ones doing the predating and seducing.
Young teenage boys, at the mercy of rampant hormones, can too easily see their future wrecked by fatherhood before they are mature enough to look after themselves, never mind take responsibility for an STD or unplanned pregnancy.

I hope I am misinformed that some 13-15 y/o (going on 30?) girls also regard 'getting' a baby in the same light as having tatoos, ipods and cellphones.

It appears to me that boys need protection from some of our 13-15y/o girls.

If it's sexual equality then it also has to be equal responsibility.
55

Eyesrolledindespair,

USA East Coast 03/10/2008 16:45:30
Here in the States... a child's life (usually a boy) can be destroyed by criminalised underage sex.

One case in particular that stays with me is the (now) 22 yrd who was hounded out of a town because he was on the sex offenders list - as a paedophile!

His "crime"?
Aged 15, he had consensual sex with another 15 year old girl... (she confirms it was consensual), but her outraged, so-called Christian parents brought charges against him and he was convicted of "having sex with a minor".
Now he is on the register, and because it was a minor ( they forget he too was a minor) he is now classed as a paedophile.... and will be for the entirity of his life.

Is this what we want and need in Scotland?

Criminalising underage sex between adolescents of a similar age-group is only going to give similar results to what happens here. Once convicted of "sex crimes", boys and girls on sex offender lists?

Refer them to children's panels, and deal with it more humanely and subtley.
56

,

03/10/2008 16:55:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

,

03/10/2008 17:10:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

Kenny,,

Glasgow 03/10/2008 17:13:20
Duncan in Edinburgh first appeared on these forums before the May 07 elections, claiming to be a floating voter with no party allegience. That was a complete and utter lie.

All his posts should be viewed in the light of that.
59

The 'Menace',

Edinburgh, 03/10/2008 18:05:01
#64,Yes,agree wholeheartedly!,on TV many evenings,lately,seen sexual-orientated family programmes,young females admitting,in the company of their parents,theyv'e slept around many times,and their mothers saying..'I Know!',as long as she's taking precautions,I trust her??,What??,13-14 yr.old,n,she trusts her!!,C'mon!..get real!,Please!!..
60

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 19:58:05
#68 Actually Kenny with the extra comma, I have been on these forums for as long as they have existed. And I am not a liar - I have no party allegiance. I am not a member of any political party, and never have been.

I am regularly accused of being in the pay of the Labour party on here. That doesn't make it true.

In fact the truth is that in the first Scottish Parliament elections, with my second vote I voted for an SNP candidate - Margo MacDonald was still in the SNP at the time, and having met her and liked her I voted for her. In the council elections on the same day I voted SSP (for Colin Fox, another decent man, though he failed to make any headway that election). I voted Labour in the constituency vote.

What is true is that over the years my attitude towards the SNP, especially once Salmond had retaken the helm, has hardened. I consider them today to be a most dangerous, duplicitous, desperate bunch, and they are unlikely to ever get my vote again.

My posts can be viewed in the light of that. Or you can choose to believe your own fairy stories - it's up to you.
61

Decent,

03/10/2008 20:57:32
Tim - Ur dain ma feckin heid in now f@@@ off back to whichever stone you crawled out from under. U are a tw@t of the highest order.
62

Decent,

03/10/2008 20:58:33
Yolanda - don't despair they did the same to me - deleted canker but allowed cunp?? Could I get that job please??
63

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/10/2008 21:01:19
Does Professor Kathleen Marshall come over to you as being sexist? She does to me.
64

Decent,

03/10/2008 21:03:52
Dave fi Barra - B@llocks
65

Decent,

03/10/2008 21:09:19
Big carbon footprint - ay and your zip up!
66

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/10/2008 21:09:41
Why don't we just make the age of consent 21? Then we could all celebrate a consumation party with a bottle of wine from an off-licence.

It would add a whole new meaning to a good fùcking party.
67

Decent,

03/10/2008 21:13:05
Dave fi Barra - I do believe you are a male chauvinist! However I agree with some of your comments - wee girls should be wee girls - not mini teenagers
68

govinda,

Melbourne, Australia 03/10/2008 22:23:41
This has zero to do with interest in youngsters wellbeing. The agenda is to continue shifting natural parents out of their responsibility as the authority for their children. And displace that center by government institution.

Ignore this stupid micro management of your affairs by "Big Brother." Politicians & supporters behind the inroad of this parental displacement need to be realized as busybodies and exposed as meddling not helping.
69

JG,

Fife 03/10/2008 22:41:44
#52 Miss H

"It may of course result in underage girls (and boys) being referred to a children's hearing."

They already are!
70

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 23:13:19
Duncan in Edinburgh...... As you have made your views clear in relation to parents opting to send their children to a school of their choice.


What is your opinion of state sponsored sectariaism,i.e. The no papist need apply monarchy.The main reason for the existence of the anti-Catholic sectarian orange order?
71

JG,

Fife 03/10/2008 23:18:44
#80 Alba Abú

"What is your opinion of state sponsored sectariaism,i.e. The no papist need apply monarchy"

You mean as opposed to the misogynist Catholic ie no woman need apply for anything?

Though what this has to do with a thread about criminalising young girls beats me. Got an opinion on the actual topic, Alba?
72

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 04/10/2008 08:13:26
#71 Decent

How INDECENT of you to make such an ungentlemanly and almost obscene posting.

I merely brought in anohte aspect of this ongoing controversy and you go completely off the rails.

Perhaps I stirred in you subconscious longings that you will not deal with.

And I shared with posters the Victorian stance on certain aspects of sexual attitudes of the time and what I have to say about Victoria Regina Imperatrix is well-documented and a matter of public record.

You really should calm down and do a wee bit of historical research or you will give yourself a coronary with these unseemly outbursts of vitriol. Get a grip, man!
73

So-Real,

World 04/10/2008 10:02:31
Here's the rationale. They are too young, dumb and irresponsible to know what their doing, yet for the purposes of criminalizing, they knew exactly what they were doing and are fully responsible for their "crime." Go figure.
74

Dòmhnall,

Right in the centre of this country - village near 05/10/2008 17:53:59
there is a perverse misandristic tone to these proposals.
Time to burn our boxers boys ! Well, we dont wear bras ... at least, not all of us do...

The fact the females mature faster than males has been mentioned already in this forum; this is a pertinant point. Men are not inherently unable to control themselves sexually.
We need equality in the law - otherwise there is no reason to afford it any respect.

 

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