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Public services grind to a halt across Scotland as 200,000 strike over pay



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Published Date: 20 August 2008
MORE than 1,000 schools and nurseries across Scotland have closed their doors today as 200,000 council workers stage a 24-hour strike over pay.
The industrial action by members of the Unison, Unite and GMB unions went ahead despite last-minute calls for intervention by Scottish ministers.

Teachers are not on strike: it is the support staff who keep schools open, from janitors to dinner la
dies, who have walked out after rejecting a 2.5 per cent pay rise over each of the next three years.

Scores of other public services have also been put on hold for the day. Bins will be left unemptied, while many day-care centres, swimming pools, libraries and museums will be closed.

Traffic wardens and street cleaners are also off-duty and some councils warned yesterday no burials would take place.

Operator Caledonian MacBrayne said it would cancel sailings from Rothesay and Dunoon piers because of action by Argyll and Bute Council workers.

As staff picketed workplaces all across Scotland from 6am, authorities including Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen were forced to have only "life and limb" services operating.

Councillor Gordon Mackenzie, finance chief at Edinburgh City Council, said staff who strike will lose a day's wages.

But Unite said workers felt angry, frustrated and undervalued by their employers' below-inflation pay offer.

Jimmy Farrelly, Unite regional officer for Edinburgh and Glasgow, said with inflation now at 5 per cent this offer would hit low-paid workers hardest.

He added: "Unite believe that both the employers and the Scottish Government have a duty to intervene to end this damaging dispute and to stop placing the burden of inflation on the lowest paid workers by making the necessary funds available."

Dave Prentis, general secretary of Unison, described the offer as effectively a pay cut and stressed that members took industrial action very reluctantly.

Alex McLuckie, GMB Scotland's senior organiser for local government, said talks had completely broken down with local authority body Cosla.

He told The Scotsman members wanted a single year offer closer to a 4 per cent rise and added: "I approached employers through Cosla asking them to meet us to see if there was some way they could look at the offer. But I am very disappointed I had no response."

Michael Cook, Cosla spokesman, said talks could go ahead after the strike. He said: "We made an offer in good faith which was in line with inflation when we made it and which was at the top of what councils could afford."

John Swinney, the finance secretary, said he "regretted" any disruption caused by the strike but said it was up to councils and employees to resolve it.

A second strike by civil servants with the Public and Commercial Services union was also planned for today. Members are angry that ministers imposed a 2 per cent increase on their own workforce, claiming it represented a rise of only £4.20 per week for people on £16,500.

See below for how your area will be affected

Individual council websites (listed below) will carry full information and updates on affected services and emergency contact telephone numbers.

ABERDEEN:
Closed: Council offices, switchboard, public toilets, libraries, Aberdeen Art Gallery, city museums. Sports centres likely to be shut.
No services: burials and casket interments at Aberdeen crematorium. Refuse, recycling, garden and trade waste collections.
Reduced hours: social work services, personal alarm call centre,
Staff on strike include: traffic wardens, street cleaners.

ABERDEENSHIRE:
Closed: Adult day services bases at Ellon Resource Centre, Banff Day Services, Forest View Centre, Stonehaven, Robertson Road, Fraserburgh. Swimming pools at Aboyne, Banchory, Banff, Ellon, Fraserburgh, Peterhead, Turriff and Westhill. Cash collection office at Allardice Street, Stonehaven. Community centres in Aboyne, Alehousewells, Buchanhaven, Central Buchan, Collieston, Ellon, Garioch, Kemnay, Kintore, Macduff, Peterhead, Potterton, St Johns and Westhill. Aboyne Library, Banff Academy Library, Inverurie Branch Library, Meldrum Community Library.
Secondary school closures: Aboyne Academy, Banchory Academy, Banff Academy, Ellon Academy, Fraserburgh Academy, Kemnay Academy, Mackie Academy, Mearns Academy, Mintlaw Academy, Peterhead Academy, The Gordon Schools, Turriff Academy, Westhill Academy.
Primary school closures: Aboyne Primary School, Banchory Primary School, Buchanhaven Primary School, Dales Park Primary School, Dunottar Primary School, Fraserburgh North Primary School, Fraserburgh South Park, Mill O'Forest Primary School, Peterhead Central School, Port Errol Primary School, Portlethen Primary School, St Cyrus Primary School, The Gordon Schools.
Special school closures: Anna Ritchie School, Peterhead, Carronhill School, Stonehaven, Westfield School, Fraserburgh.
Possible disruption: refuse collection and recycling. Some household waste and recycling centres may close.

ANGUS:
Closed: Libraries, museums, day centres at Rosehill, Montrose and Lilybank, Forfar. Council offices in Carnoustie, Monifieth and Forfar. Special needs base at Lochside Primary School.
No services: Nursery classes in Arbirlot, Mattocks and Newtyle. Out of school clubs at Seaview, Grange, Birkhill, Carlogie, Colliston, Liff, Murroes, Muirfield, Ladyloan and Inverbrothock.
Schools: Partial closure of Arbirlot Primary, Carnoustie High, Ladyloan Primary, Langlands Primary, Lochside Primary, Mattocks Primary, Monifieth High, Newbigging Primary, Newtyle Primary, Southesk Primary.
Possible disruption: school meals, green boxes and bins collection service, recycling centres.

ARGYLL AND BUTE:
Possible disruption: council school buses, school meals, pre-school classes.

CLACKMANNANSHIRE:
Closed: All nursery, primary, special and secondary schools. Council call centre and helplines. Offices and payment centres in Greenfield, Kilncraigs, Drysdale Street Library, Sauchie, Alva, Clackmannan, Tullibody, Tillicoultry, Lime Tree House, Bank Street, Marshill House. Forthbank recycling centre. Land services depot and recycling centre at Glenochil Nursery.
No services: Mental health services, Alloa and Whins day care centres, the supported employment service, all council run leisure facilities, housing operations services, out of school care clubs. Household and commercial waste collections.
Reduced hours: skeleton staff for homelessness emergencies.

DUMFRIES AND GALLOWAY:
No services: graveyard burials.
Possible disruption: refuse collection, schools.
Reduced hours: social work services will be provided on an emergency basis.

DUNDEE:
Closed: All nursery, primary and secondary schools except for Kingspark and Claypotts Castle. Offices and facilities are likely to be closed.
No services: domestic waste collection.
Reduced hours: Limited emergency services in social work, housing emergency repairs and homeless service.

EAST AYRSHIRE:
Closed: All schools. Civic amenity site at Western Road, Kilmarnock.
No services: refuse collection including paper and garden waste bins.

EAST DUNBARTONSHIRE:
www.eastdunbarton.gov.uk
Closed: all council buildings, including schools, libraries, community centres and other public buildings.
No services: refuse and recycling collections including green and grey bins.

EAST LOTHIAN:
www.eastdunbarton.gov.uk
The extent to which services will be disrupted is not fully known but the council is confident that it will be able to maintain most services on the day and will endeavour to keep all facilities open.

EAST RENFREWSHIRE:
www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk
Closed: some council nurseries. Customer First service. Leisure centres.
No services: school meals. Refuse, garden waste and recycling collections.
Possible disruptions: library services, home care services.
Cancelled: club and community lets in council premises.

EDINBURGH:
www.edinburgh.gov.uk

Closed: some council buildings.

Child and family care centres: Craigmillar, Gilmerton, Granton, Greendykes, Hailesland, Queensferry, Sighthill, Viewforth. Community centres: Broomhouse CE Base, Broughton CE Base, Carrickvale, Castleview, Clovenstone, Craigentinny, Craigroyston, Duncan Place, Gracemount Youth Centre, Inch, Leith, Longstone, Nelson Hall, Pentland Centre Platform, Rannoch, Ratho, Royston/Wardieburn, South Bridge CE Base, Tollross Community Centre, Towerbank CE Base, West Pilton Neighbourhood Centre.

Primary school closures: Balgreen, Canal View, Carrick Knowe, Corstorphine, Craigentinny, Craiglockhart, Cramond, Currie, Dalmeny, Dalry, Duddingston, East Craigs, Gilmerton, Leith Walk, Longstone, Parson's Green, Preston Street, Roseburn, Royal Mile, Sighthill, St John's RC, Stenhouse, Towerbank.

Secondary School Closures: Balerno Community, Tynecastle High, Wester Hailes Education Centre.

Partial school closures: St Ninian's RC Primary - Primary 1 only. Boroughmuir High School - open for S4, S5, S6. Broughton High School - open for S5 and S6. Craigmount High School - open for S5 and S6. Craigroyston Community High School - open for S3 to S6. Currie Community High School - open for S4 / S5 / S6. Drummond Community High School - open for S5 and S6. Forrester High School - open for S4 / S5 / S6. Gracemount High School - open for S5 and S6. Holy Rood RC High School - open for S5 and S6. Leith Academy Community High School - open for S5 and S6. Liberton High School - open for S2 to S6. Portobello High School - open for S4, S5 and S6. St Augustine's RC High School - open for S5 and S6. St Thomas of Aquin's High School - open for S5 and S6.

No services: garden or trade waste collections.

Possible disruption: household bins, schools, nurseries, community centres, child and family centres, school crossing guide.

• Edinburgh Leisure facilities and services will operate as usual today (Wednesday 20 August). The only exception is the sport and leisure facilities at Queensferry High School, which will close at 5.30pm. Edinburgh Leisure is an independent charitable trust that manages the local leisure facilities on behalf of the council.

FALKIRK COUNCIL:
www.falkirk.gov.uk
Closed: Callendar House. Kinneil Museum. Sports centres and games halls in Denny, Bo'ness, Mariner, Hallglen, Polmont, Woodlands. All sports pavilions. All libraries. Social work facilities.
Possible disruption: Refuse collection.

FIFE:
www.fifedirect.org.uk
Closed: 159 schools including council-run nurseries. Argos Centre, Auchmuty Learning Centre, Bowhill Community Learning and Development Centre, Burntisland Library, Cadham Library, Glenrothes, Kennoway Library, Templehall Community Centre.
Severe disruption: bin collections on Wednesday, likely to continue on Thursday and Friday.

GLASGOW:
www.glasgow.gov.uk
Closed: All primaries, special educational needs schools and nurseries. Some council offices. Some museums, libraries, sports centres and community facilities.
No services: Refuse collections or wheelie bins, blue or brown bin recycling, commercial waste. Burials and cremations.
Possible disruption: Bulk uplift service.

HIGHLANDS:
www.highland.gov.uk
Closed: Recycling centres, council service points in Church Street, Inverness, Hilton, Inverness, Tain, Ullapool, Broadford, Kyle, Thurso, Bettyhill, Brora, Dornoch, Lairg, Nairn, Grantown, Kingussie, Fort William. HQ Cash Office. Registrars.
No services: refuse collection, bulky uplifts, kerbside recycling, burials or cremations. The Corran Ferry linking Nether Lochaber to Ardgour will not operate on Wednesday. Libraries in Alness, Badenoch, Bettyhill, Broadford, Dingwall (5-6pm), Fort William, Gairloch, Glenurquhart, Housebound Library, Invergordon Mobile Library, Inverness, Kyle, Mallaig, Moray Firth Mobile Library, Nairn, Portree, Thurso. Swimming Pools: Lochaber Leisure, Fort William, Nairn Leisure, Portree (7-9pm),Thurso, Wick. Community Facilities: Charleston Community Complex, Inverness, Culloden Community Complex, Inverness, Golspie Youth Centre, James Cameron Community Complex, Inverness.
Nursery closures: Bunsgoil Ghaidhlig Inbhir Nis, Arisaig, Auldearn, Ballachulish, Banavie, Bonar Bridge, Bridgend, Alness, Caol, Carbost, Cauldeen, Central, Conon Bridge, Cradlehall, Deshar, Boat of Garten, Duncan Forbes, Inverness, Elgol, Skye, Fort William RC, Gairloch, Gledfield, Ardgay, Helmsdale, Hilton, Inverness, Hilton, East Ross, Inshes, Inverness, Inverlochy, Kyle, Kyleakin, Macdiarmid, Skye, Mallaig, Marybank, Maryburgh, Newtonmore, North Kessock, North, Wick, Poolewe, Pulteneytown Academy, Wick, St Bride',s, Onich, Strathdearn, Struan, Skye, Tomnacross, , Ullapool, Upper Achintore, Fort William.
Primary school closures: Aviemore, Beauly, Brora, Coulhill, Alness, Cradlehall, Inverness, Dingwall, Dornoch, Golspie, Grantown, Halkirk, Park, Invergordon, Kilchuimen, Fort Augustus, Knockbreck, Tain, Millbank, Nairn, Miller Academy, Thurso, Mount Pleasant, Thurso, Obsdale, Alness, Pennyland, Thurso, Rosebank, Nairn, Smithton, Inverness, South Lodge, Invergordon, South, Wick, St Joseph's RC, Inverness, Tarradale.
Secondary school closures: Alness Academy, Charleston Academy, Inverness, Culloden Academy, Inverness, Grantown Grammar, Kilchuimen Academy, Kinlochbervie High, Fort Augustus, Kingussie High, Lochaber High, Millburn Academy, Inverness, Nairn Academy, Plockton High, Portree High, Tain Royal Academy, Thurso High S 1-3, Ullapool High, Wick High. Ardersier Primary – closing at noon,. Central Inverness is open to P 4-7 only.
Limited service: Inverness Leisure Centre.

INVERCLYDE:
www.inverclyde.gov.uk
Closed: Customer Centre at Wallace Place, all libraries, the McLean Museum.
Possible disruption: school meals, school crossing patrols, refuse collection.
No services: burials and cremations, weddings.

MIDLOTHIAN:
www.midlothian.gov.uk
Closed: All nurseries. Many offices and facilities including leisure centres and libraries are likely to remain closed to the public. Recycling Centres at Stobhill Depot, Newtongrange and Bellmans Road, Penicuik.
No services: Recycling boxes and grey and brown household bins will not be collected. Bulky uplift services will be suspended. 'Meals on Wheels' provision or lunch clubs. School meals. Wrap Around Care, Breakfast and after school clubs.
School closures: Saltersgate, Beeslack Com. High School, TOP Service (Greenhall), Lasswade High School Centre, Newbattle High School, Penicuik High School, Cockpen Nursery School, Cuikenburn Nursery School, Mayfield Nursery School, Mount Esk Nursery School, Thornybank Nursery School, Bonnyrigg Primary School, Cornbank St James Primary School, Cuiken Primary School, Danderhall Primary School, Glencorse Primary School, Hawthornden Primary School, Hopefield Primary School, King's Park Primary School, Lasswade Primary School, Mauricewood Primary School, Mayfield Primary School, Newtongrange Primary School, Paradykes Primary School, Rosewell Primary School, Roslin Primary School, Sacred Heart Primary School, St Andrew's Primary School, St David's Primary School, St Luke's Primary School, St Mary's Primary School, St Matthew's Primary School, Woodburn Primary School.
Possible disruption: school crossing patrols.

MORAY:
www.moray.gov.uk
Closed: the Cedarwood Day Centre in Elgin.
Primary school closures: Burghead, Kinloss, Millbank, New Elgin, Pilmuir, Seafield and St Gerardine's. No meals at Alves, Applegrove, Dallas, Hythehill, West End, Mosstowie, Portgordon, St Sylvester's and Rothiemay. Nurseries at Hopeman and Hythehill will be closed, along with a number of pre-five nurseries.
Secondary schools: All Moray secondary schools will be open as normal although there will be no meals at Keith Grammar and Buckie High.
Possible disruptions: meals-on-wheels service will be disrupted and will be closed, although the Moray Resource Centre and the Burnie Centre in Buckie will both be open. Refuse collection, particularly in the Elgin area.

NORTH AYRSHIRE:
www.north-ayrshire.gov.uk
Closed: Arran and Saltcoats local offices.
Partial school closures: Academies except Arran High, Greenwood and Largs Academies open for 4th, 5th and 6th year pupils only.
No services: school meals.
Possible disruption: Refuse collection.

NORTH LANARKSHIRE:
www.northlan.gov.uk
Closed: Nurseries, special needs schools, libraries, museums and community centres.
No services: uplift of domestic or commercial waste by cleansing services.
Postponed: environmental services committee.

ORKNEY ISLANDS:
www.orkney.gov.uk
Closed: Kirkwall Grammar School, Glaitness Primary School, Burray Primary School, Hope Primary School, Papdale Primary School and Shapinsay Primary School. Stromness Swimming Pool and the Orkney Library and Archive. The Orkney Museum and Scapa Flow Visitor Centre, Lyness.

PERTH AND KINROSS:
www.pkc.gov.uk
Closed: Pullar House in Perth, area offices and other council offices. All schools and nurseries and educational facilities (including community learning centres). All registrars except Perth. AK Bell Library in Perth. All civic amenity sites. All adult resource centres and day centres.
Cancelled: All school lets and out of school clubs.
Possible disruption: domestic, trade and household refuse collection.

RENFREWSHIRE:
www.renfrewshire.gov.uk
Closed: Council headquarters building and customer service centre, Renfrewshire House, Paisley. All special schools. Paisley Museum and Art Galleries (including the Observatory). Paisley Arts Centre. Paisley Town Hall. Johnstone Town Hall. All libraries.
Cancelled: All board and other council meetings. All school lets.
Possible disruption: public sports centres and swimming pools. Recycling and refuse collection. School crossing patrols.
Limited service: The Lagoon Leisure Centre.

SCOTTISH BORDERS:
www.scotborders.gov.uk
Closed: Community recycling centre and transfer station in Roxburgh.
No services: refuse and recycling in Roxburgh.
Primary school closures: Ayton, Burnfoot, Cockburnspath, Drumlanrig, Earlston, Glendinning Terrace, Howdenburn, Knowepark, Newcastleton, Newtown St Boswells, Reston, Stirches (nursery class open), Trinity, Wilton.
Secondary school closures: Earlston, Galashiels Academy, Hawick, Kelso.
Nursery classe closures: Chirnside, Coldstream, Parkside.

SHETLAND:
www.shetland.gov.uk
Closed: all schools except Uyesound Primary, open until lunchtime, Skerries, Burravoe primary, Fair Isle, Fetlar, Foula, Lunnasting, Sandness.
No services: all youth clubs, refuse collection (except on Bressay).
Transport - ports and harbours - no ships expected in and two tug crews on emergency standby. Inter Islands Air - timetable changes due to diversion from Tingwall to Sumburgh.

SOUTH AYRSHIRE:
www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk
Closed: All schools.
No services: Wheelie bin refuse collections or glass recycling boxes. Day services for adults and older people. Disability resource centre service.
Reduced services: community education, community centres, libraries and museums.

SOUTH LANARKSHIRE:
www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk
Closed: All council nurseries, 102 primary schools and nine primary schools. All libraries except Calderwood in East Kilbride. All social work adult day care centres and day care centres for older people. All community halls and country park buildings.
No services: Burials and cremations. Bins collection. No special uplifts for garden or bulky household waste.
Possible disruptions: school meals not expected to be available.

STIRLING:
www.stirling.gov.uk
Closed: All libraries except in Callander, Cambusbarron, Dunblane and Killin. Lower Polmaise waste transfer station, Weighbridge and composting facility. Household waste recycling centres in Lower Polmaise, Callander and Balfron. Springkerse Park and Ride car park and bus stop.
School closures: Bannockburn primary, St. Ninians primary, Riverside primary, Bannockburn High. No school meals.
Nursery closures: Bannockburn, St. Ninians, Cowie, Riverside, Castleview and Cornton.
No services: the play/crèche team. Kerbside recycling.
Limited services: meals on wheels, anti-social behaviour resolution team (including community wardens). Youth services from Steeple.
Possible disruption: school crossing patrols, escorts and learning assistants, nursery classes.

WEST DUNBARTONSHIRE:
www.west-dunbarton.gov.uk
Closed: All schools including special schools and nurseries. All council buildings and area housing offices.
Axed services: Refuse collections.

WEST LOTHIAN:
www.westlothian.gov.uk
Closed: All nursery schools and special schools. Carmondean and Broxburn primary schools. Day care service units. West Lothian Advice Shop. Customer information service centres.
Axed service: bin collection.
Partially closed: Kirkhill Primary School.
Limited services: Bathgate and Strathbrock customer information service centres.
Cancelled: scheduled meeting of the council's development control committee.

WESTERN ISLES:
www.cne-siar.gov.uk
Closed: All libraries and some mobile library services. Comhairle offices at Stornoway and Balivanich. Sports facilities will be closed except at Lionel and Shawbost where the pools are expected to open as usual. Harris Sports Centre will also be open.
Reduced service: Offices at Castlebay and Tarbert.





The full article contains 2957 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 20 August 2008 11:07 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 20/08/2008 00:35:56

Will we miss them (Unless it is bucket day tomorrow ) probably not

Will we still pay a large proportion of our council tax into their final salary schemes why YES OF COURSE
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 01:21:02

What does one expect, when this is the year of,...

'Bonkerisum'?

It is like living in a total,..'Madhouse'!

Everyone has,...'Lost-the-Plot'! :D
3

indune1,

Canada 20/08/2008 01:36:21

3- Quite right.

If things are so bad why don't the unions strike for more than one day?

Why? Because they know that any prolonged strike will hurt their members in the long term where their economic losses will be far and above the inflation rate and it will take years to recoup the loss.

4

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 01:44:15
4
Good Morning Charles.

Is your take home pay less than £250 a week?

If it isn't then don't criticise.

If it is join a union.












5

Statsman,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 01:52:19
6 Conan the Librarian™

Bah. You're a unionist.
6

indune1,

Canada 20/08/2008 01:54:57

Conan! How's by you?
7

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 02:15:11
7
Heh. A Unisonist;-)
8
Good Morning Dunnie.

Striking today, first time since Thatcher was in power.
8

indune1,

Canada 20/08/2008 02:44:55
10 - Conan - That can't be easy. I hope things work out. Good luck.
9

Capricorn_one,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 03:47:32
I would be interested to know how the candidates in the coming by-election would address this dispute.

Do any of them have a clue, I wonder?

Unionist friends of the SNP
10

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 20/08/2008 03:51:37
i wonder? how much in the last 10 years these council's have paid to consultancy firms? in edinburgh's case, trams that are a total waste of money! the private sector will not keep funding the public sector at present levels! public sector workers don't realise how good they have it! 49% (private workforce) paying for 51%(public sector workforce), do the maths? unless you want higher taxation again on the basic wage! so your pay rise will be wiped out! i'll ask any public sector worker this question? WHERE DOES YOUR MONEY COME FROM? (THINK ABOUT IT?)
11

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 20/08/2008 03:57:15
for a better example of a waste of money! come in on the train from north berwick, and as you approach wavererly, on your right, the scottish office, on your left edinburgh council, behind that? holyrood! add westminster then the european union! why? does a country of just 5 million people, need this level of goverment? unionists explain?
12

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 04:43:47
Sack the lot of them, there are plenty of others who will gladly take their jobs.
13

fife runner,

20/08/2008 06:22:51
if greedy petrol tanker drivers can get a huge pay rise then why not poorer paid workers. I could see this coming as soon as fuel queues got bigger with panicking motorists and we gave in to the drivers. Now everyone wants a piece of the action.
14

fife runner,

20/08/2008 06:23:47
16 would you take their jobs?
15

Madame Ecosse,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 06:24:05
#15

There hasn't been a 'Scottish Office' since 1999. Get your facts right. Scottish Government.
16

Boy Wonder,

20/08/2008 07:09:04
My nephew is somewhat disgruntled that his school isn't on strike. My daughters don't restart till next week on Monday since they are home-schooled.
17

terry osser,

morden 20/08/2008 07:37:29
TIME FOR MASS REDUNDANCIES
18

Vincent-W,

20/08/2008 07:44:39
My youngest is at school today - PFI school. What's more when we got a PFI school we said goodbye to a dirty school populated by lazy, badly managed, rude and useless jannies and we got a clean school with properly trained, busy, motivated and pleasant people. What a change!

Sadly next son up is having his second day at High School disrupted. Welcome to council management son.
19

Melly,

Cuckfield 20/08/2008 07:52:21
#17 The tanker drivers are paid by a private company, the council workers are paid out of our pockets, and I do not have any more to give.It`s about time these people realised there isn`t a bottomless pit of cash, if they get more we have less, it`s quite simple. As I said yesterday if they are not happy, look for a job in the private sector where you have to work for a living.
20

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh. 20/08/2008 07:57:57
Our recycling police have advised me that if the bin lid does not fully close they`ll refuse to uplift and if waste cardboard contains staples or sellotape they`ll refuse to uplift also.
21

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 20/08/2008 08:05:32
Yup. Our ferry men are on strike so we're marooned in mid Atlantic. I am forced to mow the grass and then pick brambles. Hellish.
22

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

picket line 20/08/2008 08:09:49
Youve got to strike for your right to be able to party! Strike should be called off today the weathers c**p.
On a serious note what has that Swindler Swineey an his Scottish Government done to prevent this happening? Thats right a big fat zero, they are full of promises and only deliver on the real easy popular stuff, when the going gets tough they are no where to be seen. Do away with student debt? No but hes increased student loans, prevent a strike, no vanished off the face of the earth, why am I not surprised?
23

observer9,

Glasgow 20/08/2008 08:15:24
In one TV interview yesterday a council spokesperson said they regretted the strike as they valued thier customers etc etc. CUSTOMERS?

Customers have choice, customers can choose suppliers, select the best/most appropriate product or service.

I am not a customer of the council I am one of the masses paying for these over protected, over staffed over egoed, over important public sector,taxpayer draining "frontline workers".

24

D2,

20/08/2008 08:17:37
Do all these eejits banging on about private people paying taxes to support essential services, not realise one simple basic fact! Or are there genuinely people out there who do not realise that public sector workers also PAY TAX AND PAY COUNCIL TAX!

#19 There may not be a 'Scottish Office' but there is a 'Scotland Office' -part of the UK Government which deals with matters reserved to the UK. But why quibble over a slight change of name?
25

observer9,

Glasgow 20/08/2008 08:32:38
#28
Yes they do pay coucil tax and tax.

But the majority of people who work in the private sector pay over the odds to keep the public sector in their jobs. Things like early retiremnt, gold plated guaranteed pensions, lots of time off etc etc.

Fortunately we now ive in an era of mass information and the mantra of "poor" public sector wokers is over.

There are more of us watching you than you watching us.

Incidentally wages/salary tax is not the major factor in UK revenue. Commercial firms contribute way more, rates, corporation tax in addition to having to fork out for a zillion unending bureaucratic energy draining government initiaitives.

Poster 2 is highlighting something I have been banging on for a long time. We ARE heading for a devastating fall in employment, manufacturing and our quality iof life is going to plummet. Mainly due to over taxation, the stifling of innovation and the facts that many of our "leaders" have borderline zero commercial experience.



26

JayJay,

Right here 20/08/2008 08:38:34
Sorry to take a Tebbit-esque position, but it strikes me that, whilst people should be paid a decent living wage, there are sadly, lowly paid unskilled jobs where the "going rate" is not much better than minimum wage.
When the unionista hacks drone on about fair pay, they need to remember that the way off the bottom of the ladder is via hard work or additional training to acquire new skills. It would be great if the minimum wage paid £30k per year, but, given that half the country already works for the government, the money just ain't there.
Its the great conundrum of public services. Everyone I know who works for the state moans about their lot, but are never prepared to leave because of the pension and job security. Well guys, you can't have it both ways. If you don't like it, leave.
27

Madame Ecosse,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 08:43:02
#28

Err, because it's incorrect?
28

unbiased,

Erehwon o Elddim 20/08/2008 09:04:03
My husband hasn't had a pay rise in 4 years - stay off work for no good reason - 1st time, formal warning; 2nd time, formal warning; 3rd time OUT THE DOOR!
29

D2,

20/08/2008 09:14:14
#29 Retirement age for civil servants is now 65 -isn't that the same as private sector. You can retire earlier but, guess what, pension is lower -isn't that the same as private sector.
Scottish Government pensions were changed several years ago - final salary pensions have not been available to new staff for nearly five years and the majority of existing staff have seen pension changes and are no longer on final salary either. Very few current staff are still on final salary pensions. -Isn't that the same as the private sector?
There may be more of 'you' watching, but surely if you really were watching you wouldn't simly keep on repeating tired old dogma about public sector that is no longer correct?
30

John south of Soutra,

20/08/2008 09:49:42
#33 What % contribution does the public sector make to the pension pot - I bet it's a lot more than the 3% many in the private sector receive. Most private sector pensions especially in the SMEs where the majority of people work are stakeholders pensions and the employer puts in minimum amount, so please don't maon about not having a final salary pension, also as someone else said - off sick no pay or only SSP in most cases in the privat sector, public sector full pay for up 6 months in most cases
31

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 09:59:15
Why have we all been shut off from commenting on readers' letters???????????
32

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 10:25:36
A lot of people are makeing the mistake that this strike is fully supported it is not. in many council area's there are only partial closures, all this dispite the shop stewards trying to "encourage" staff to go on strike
2.5 every year for 3 years in this climate is something to be grabbed with both hands.
Iam off work today as i work shifts not becuase there is a strike on so my advice to everyone if you see any union mouthpeices talking off mass walkouts and overwhelming support there LIEING.
33

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 20/08/2008 10:47:40
From comments so far I don't think our feather bedded public sector "workers ?" have much support. Suggest they face reality like the rest of us
34

D2,

20/08/2008 10:49:24
#34. Sorry- I wasn't moaning. I was however trying to make the point that people use this forum to make statements about public sector workers that are basedon hearsay and prejudice, rather than a clear understanding of the actual situation. Just to be clear also -public sector workers contribute to their pension schemes out of their salary, just like private sector. No idea what % the employer contribution is.
On sick pay- not sure what you mean as can't see any previous comment mentioning sick pay-I read the previous comment as saying that if you stay off work for no good reason then got formal warning. Funnily enough same rules apply in Scottish Government. It is treated as gross misconduct. Staying off work for no good reason is very different from being off sick.
35

Melly,

Cuckfield 20/08/2008 11:00:14
#28 D2. Of course they pay Income tax and Council tac, but they pay it out of the money we provide them with !!!!! Is that so difficult to understand?
36

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 11:04:40
#33 -
There`s still some very attractive packages on offer for those to "leave early".I`ve never came across a bunch so highly paid in relation to the jobs they perform.They`re immune from normal commercial pressures which impact the private sector.
37

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh. 20/08/2008 11:06:17
#38 - the majority of long-serving civil servants enjoy non-contributory final salary pension schemes.
38

sam the god,

20/08/2008 11:15:48
I wonder how many of the posters (private sector) who are complaining about local authority workers having an easy life are actually using their employers time and internet connections to post on this topic are they not slacking? Depriving their employer work time. If you ask me these posters are a bit hypocritical saying one lot of workers waste resources whilst they are doing exactly the same. To answer the question I run my own business.
39

D2,

20/08/2008 11:42:43
#41. Yes those civil servants who have been in for many years do in most cases have final salary schemes, but not one of them is non-contributory. And as these people retire, their replacements do not get offered final salary schemes as these have not been available for some 5 years. Again I make the point that this is no different to the private sector where many long term employees have final pay pensions but over the years companies have stopped offering them to new employees.
40

D2,

20/08/2008 11:45:00
By the way I have worked in both the public and private sectors. Public sector is poorer pay, used to be better pension, but not so good now. Yes, slightly more holidays but that doesn't really make up for it.
41

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 11:50:03
d2 i work in the public sector and lets face facts there is some that that are so lazy and set in their ways that they would stop breathing if they could get away with it
42

Nikostratos,

20/08/2008 11:53:18
#45 Thistledhu,

I work in the private sector and have all my working life.And believe me it's just the same there and when you do have a cull most of the lazy so and so are still there at the end.
43

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 11:56:55
46 could that be because the said same people are either uion office holders or good freinds of them?
44

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 11:59:21
47 i meant union
45

jim b,

20/08/2008 12:18:05
48 what is your job ,hope you dont mind me asking
46

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 12:19:47
local authority/ not on strike but not at work as work shifts
47

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 12:24:17
ps lots of council vans on the roads today
48

TheSmith,

20/08/2008 12:24:43
#45 - I agree - I came to public sector from private and feel frustrated every day about people who either don't work, or work in an illogical way because that's how they've always done it.
49

jim b,

20/08/2008 12:26:00
Your happy with the rise.and you dont sound like one of the people who will lose thousands under single status.Imeant job titlee ,sorry.
50

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 12:26:19
52 spot on and god help you if come up with an inotive idea to solve a problem.
51

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 12:27:50
jim b single status was an invention of the Unions in the first place. im an enforcement officer
52

JayDeeTee,

20/08/2008 12:35:35
This lot should try being employed in the private sector, where rises of eff-all are common.
53

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 12:39:19
Just shut the doors behind these public sector parasites and get rid of these flippin unions that hold the country to ransom and think the government is a dripping roast for them suck dry ....
54

,

20/08/2008 12:49:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
55

Midnight,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 12:54:55
Can't help but wonder at a lot of these posts. Simply having a Council job does not mean that people are greedy. Tarring all Council workers with the same brush is just petty. I applied for a job with the Council and a bunch of private sector posts as well. I took this one because it was offered to me first, and I needed the job. Does that make me greedy? Most of you would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

Hardly any Council employees are work-shy scammers, who take regular sick leave, millions of holidays and get full pensions. These kind of people exist in all businesses, and they all end up getting caught and sacked in the end, public OR private sector.

I, for one, am at work today, as are -all- the other members of my section. 200,000 workers on strike? Would like to see where those figures came from...
56

Madame Ecosse,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 14:02:12
Members of the Private Sector

Christmas bonuses, anyone? Shares?
57

Thistledhu,

20/08/2008 14:33:03
59 i agree though i would say due to years of bad practice i would suggest there is an above avg amount of work shy in public service the rest of us haveing to take up the slack.

The unions will claim a total walk out but we all know thats a lie
58

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 15:35:51
#60 - what a stupid comment.Bonuses are not guaranteed and are linked to agreed performance targets.Shares fluctuate in value.Both unlike the guarantee of fixed final salary pension schemes.
59

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 20/08/2008 16:09:55
Has anyone actually noticed a difference? If it wasn't bucket day today then it's a non event. In fact the roads were a bit less busy for me so please keep the strike going for a few years please?
60

Soup kitchen,

20/08/2008 17:00:14
It's only fair that uneducated cooncil workers be paid enough to have luxury holidays, early retirement, ridiculous easy working conditions.

Just put my taxes up if you want more cash. So what if you get paid more than equivalent in private sector?

The standard of living of union members is not up for discussion.

Just sabotage the provision of local services if you can't afford £50 computer games for your fat lazy children that will one day also work for the cooncil.
61

Soup kitchen,

20/08/2008 17:02:05
My favourite comment was the Unison Leader's comments "Not one penny of our efficiency savings has been paid to our members, it has all been pocketed by the local authorities."

You got your salary didn't you? We pay you to be efficient, that's part of your f**king job you thug.

They clearly think money for nothing is the status quo and deserve extra for being good at their jobs.
62

westview,

wee north britain 20/08/2008 17:16:03
So the Labour Party could not win the democratic vote at our recent by elections, and is worried that it will lose its political control over north britain? It explains why the unions were kept docile during New Labours right wing swing and why they have now been unleashed to attack the credibility of Scottish Government deals. Remember ,the Unions Unionist stance in Scotland is controlled from south of the border. Thats where the Unions headquarters are situated.
63

Madame Ecosse,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 17:53:07
#62 - smelly end bell

"Bonuses are not guaranteed and are linked to agreed performance targets" he says. That would be like performance related pay in the civil service, yeah? Newsflash to the ignorant - performance which is below effective attracts a freeze in pay during the performance year.
64

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 19:47:11
Ach...
...Why bother.
Many posters on here that sometimes talk sense, seem to have a blind spot about public service workers.

In your underpaid and extremely private jobs, do you get junkies walking in to the staff room, on the chore?

Are you having to put up with the above junkies on a daily basis, because they have an effin right to an effin bus pass innat?

Do hordes of feral teenagers run riot in your workplace?

If not, then shut the fkuc up.
65

Soup kitchen,

20/08/2008 19:55:14
68

I quite agree with you. The public sector workers such as Police, courts, rehabilitation in jails, social workers are all doing terrible jobs.

We see this behaviour in our own lives all the time too. And it's all the fault of the overpaid and lazy public sector worker.
66

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 20:05:30
69
I should get your social worker charged then Soupy.

Letting you near a keyboard.

Again.
67

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 20/08/2008 20:07:36
24% of the employed population work in the public sector. See

tinyurl.com/6dynet

Only NI beats Scotland for the ratio of public to private sector employment at nearly 30%.

With productivity this poor, there is obviously plenty of scope to cut public sector employement to at least 20% and probably more. This ratio has increased quite a bit under Labour from around 20% in Scotland in 1999. So at a rough calculation 1 in 6 is likely redundant i.e. "In quarter 1 (Q1) 2007, there were 580,500 people employed in the public sector..." so around 96,750 extra bodies are in the public sector than before. If that merits an above inflation increase who will pay for it? Well at the risk of stating the obvious it will be the private sector working population since public sector work is funded from taxation alone. And yes, public sector workers do pay tax, but that goes back into the general pool of taxation to be recycled back into - public sector projects and pay and pensions...

So why do we now have 20% more people in public employment than around 10 years ago? Think Labour. Think big useless failed projects. Some examples:- extra load on HMR&C due to more complex taxation procedures and constant fiddling with and additions to tax sources inspired by Gordon. Burgeoning and useless empires and quangos - equality departments, nappy encouragement workers, etc. Ethnic diversity officers. And on it goes - you may be able to think of better examples than these, but there is scope for cuts, not wage increases.
68

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 20:19:04
71
Mr Calm.

Again we have posters confusing the underpaid and understaffed frontline workers, with the waste of space overpaid and underused management.

You will find Mr Calm, that those people did not go on strike today, because they are very well paid.

Unlike the people who went on strike.

69

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 20/08/2008 20:46:58
#72 - Conan

I would definitely not exclude the top echelons from the chop - they will no doubt be feathering their nests and expanding empires at great cost. Knowing as I do what happens in for example education depts, there are swathes of "special advisors" and secretaries and an overabundance of high heid yins who do b*gger all but mess up the scene for the teaching staff on the front line.

My main point is that this overall sector is still well overmanned and causing a tax burden which is unaffordable. How you redistribute after the purge is another thing.
70

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 20:58:28
73
Heh, and the management will all resign and give the keys to the first person they see out of their office.

A nice fantasy...
71

Soup kitchen,

20/08/2008 21:15:53
73 Mr Angry

You forget team-leaders for transgender awareness days. That is 30k*10 well spent.

And remember those hard-working souls who have to adminster the £50 fine you get for accidently putting a tin can in the main bin, not the recycle one.

Fortunately we can find savings in the courts by letting off people who punch people in the face with less of a fine than if you put something in the wrong bin.
72

Conan the Librarian™,

20/08/2008 21:29:48
75
Of course Soupy, it's much easier to get a law abiding person to pay a fine for a misdemeanour, than a wee weaselfaced hoodie scumbag.

That only has his gyro on a Thursday.

And what he can chore.
73

RayB,

newcastle upon tyne 20/08/2008 23:05:50
I struggle to see why people have such gripes about public sector workers. These people do some of the dirtiest, foul jobs around, and get little thanks. It'll be a one of these people who wipes your Granies bot if she becomes helpless, unless you'd rather do it yourself of course! Many, many different functions are performed from scrapping body parts up after road accidents to cremateing our deceased. Many work 24/7 and took there jobs years ago when working in these jobs was unpopular due to better jobs being available in industry. They get good pensions, but the have paid into that, slightly more that most others do as a percentage. Now that industry has declined everyone is envious of there jobs. Public sector employees cannot be paid a bonus, can't be given a x-mas box, and cannot get a staff discount! People in other industries forget what perks they get, company cars and vans etc. They do better than other workers in some areas, because they have stayed in their unions. many other industrial workers abandoned their unions because they could save a few bob each month. How much has it cost them now? The only people who will keep their pensions are those who are in strong unions. Maggie Thatcher got millions to abandon unions, she wasn't daft was she? Divide and rule! Support Local Authority workers or privatise their jobs, they'll be there but in a different uniform, but will they then do the most choose to aviod? When leaving school we each made career choices, our unions taught us later, never take away from others, that is wrong. there's nothing wrong in fighting for the same wages or conditions yourself though, as long as you are organised in unions! I am long retired and wish to point out that I have had nothing to do with trade unions in an official capacity.
74

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 21/08/2008 00:31:36
75 Soup Kitchen

Err, yes I did forget the transgender awareness units. What vfm there eh?

Recalling the "new dog on the block" posters issued by Dundee polis, which were apparently objected to by a Muslim councillor, I was not totally surprised to see that said polis had an ethnic diversity officer on board. Then it transpired that it was mainly the councillor who had got his knickers in a knot and local Muslim shopkeepers hadn't objected much to the poster and in fact were selling tins of dog food with the apparently abhorred image of dogs.

We jest to some extent but it won't be hard to find 97,500 public officials at whatever level who are not adding value to services provided by the type of worker cited by 77 Ray B. They should be valued and encouraged and the wasters given the heave-ho.

 

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