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RBS boss Stephen Hester hits out at order to break up bank

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Published Date: 04 November 2009
THE enforced break-up of Royal Bank of Scotland will make it more difficult for taxpayers to get their money back and will not help consumers, its chief executive Stephen Hester has warned.
On a seismic day for the UK banking sector, Mr Hester said RBS's path to recovery could be impeded by the European Union's insistence on the sale of its most profitable arms.

Analysis: Rabbie Burns could teach the almighty Eurocrats a lesson

His warning came after the government announced a world record bail-out for the banking system, worth nearly £40billion, and a major restructuring of the UK's two biggest retail banks, RBS and Lloyds Banking Group. In contrast to Mr Hester's warnings, Chancellor Alistair Darling insisted the reforms represented a good deal for the taxpayer.

The two banks will be forced to sell off a total of 900 branches, while RBS will also have to lose its profitable insurance wing, which includes the Churchill and Direct Line brands. The move means there will no longer be any RBS branches south of the Border – a major blow for what was once the world's biggest bank, the UK's first national branch network and one of Scotland's most iconic institutions.

RBS's seven NatWest branches in Scotland will also be sold. In exchange, RBS will receive a fresh cash injection of £25.5bn from the state, taking the taxpayer's stake in the business to 84 per cent.

Lloyds, meanwhile, will rebrand its branches as Bank of Scotland north of the Border. But it will have to lose 600 branches and pay a £2.5bn fee in exchange for £5.7bn in state cash.

The banks have four years to downsize their operations, but Mr Hester was quick to set out his concerns about the EU ruling. "Customers would be pawns in a bigger game," he told The Scotsman.

Earlier, the RBS chief said that, while he respected the public mood and the EU's rulings, the measures "don't improve competition and don't improve our ability to pay back the shareholder – ie, the taxpayer". While he agreed dismantling some of RBS's branch network could be good for competition, his criticism was aimed at the EU's decision to make it sell other parts of its business.

Q&A: What the RBS break-up will mean for your account

Mr Hester is particularly worried that selling off the profitable insurance wing will make it harder to repay taxpayers and will simply be handing a prized asset to another business.

Both RBS and Lloyds yesterday announced major overhauls of their operations, as the government injected tens of billions more pounds into the banks in exchange for a ban on bonuses.

The £39.2bn package was described as a "new world record" for bank bail-outs by the Tories. Under the deal, staff paid more than £39,000 will receive no discretionary cash bonus for 2009, while executive directors will have their bonuses, paid largely in shares, deferred until 2012.

Mr Hester admitted this would make it more difficult to retain and recruit staff. The changes had left RBS feeling "bruised", he said, adding: "We do feel that life has in many ways been made more difficult for us. However, we have a job to do and we will get on with doing it."

As part of the package, RBS will be able to draw on an extra £8bn contingency if the markets deteriorated further. But a further, less publicised, perk will be tax write-offs worth up to £11bn a year for the bank. In exchange, it will have to pay a hefty £700 million a year to be covered by the government's "toxic" insurance, known as the Asset Protection Scheme (APS).

Lloyds has managed to avoid going into the scheme, and will instead seek to raise funds from shareholders. Lloyds chief executive Eric Daniels was sanguine about the restrictions on bonuses, saying: "Rewards have to be taken over the same sort of timeline as the period of risk."

Opposition parties said the latest help from the state was an even bigger bail-out than last autumn's cash injection.

But the Chancellor insisted the shake-up would be good for British taxpayers and banking customers. "These changes are better for the taxpayer, better for the banks and better for the economy," Mr Darling told MPs. "They will mean stronger and safer banks better able to support the recovery."

In a Commons statement, he said the changes would potentially create three new high street banks over the next five years. He added that fears of a global depression had receded and "market confidence" had started to return.

Shadow chancellor George Osborne said the latest rescue package would cost £2,000 per family and described it a "new world record as the single biggest bail-out of any single bank anywhere in the globe". He also said there was no guarantee it would get credit flowing in the economy.

Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman Vince Cable questioned why anyone in the two banks should receive any bonus at all – even a deferred one.

"A bonus is surely a bonus whether it is paid now or in three years' time, and why do you and the Tories think it is great discipline and hardship to ask the bankers to wait three years for their Ferraris?" he said in the Commons.

SNP Treasury spokesman Stewart Hosie warned that the disposal of certain divisions of Lloyds and RBS could impact on jobs in Scotland.

Mr Darling said the government would "do everything it can" to protect jobs, and added there would have been "huge consequences" for the two banks if ministers had not intervened.

The Unite union warned that thousands of jobs were at risk. Its national officer, Rob MacGregor, said: "We cannot allow a situation to arise where some 25,000 loyal workers in bank branches in high streets and towns across the country are made to pay the price for the banking executives' recklessness.

"Any potential buyers should be assessed on their commitment to job security and protection of terms and conditions, not short-term profits."

Finance secretary John Swinney has written to Mr Darling and EU competition commissioner Neelie Kroes expressing his concerns over the break-up of the Scottish banks. He asked them to remember the importance of the financial sector in Scotland and to make sure that any restructuring supported jobs in the sector.

He said: "Restructuring must be handled in a way which ensures value for money for taxpayers to receive a fair return on the significant investments that have been made. Any restructuring must also occur in a manner which supports the wider Scottish economy, particularly in assisting the development and growth of viable businesses."

Shares in RBS nosedived on the shake-up announcement, but Lloyds' picked up because the bank had managed to avoid being dragged into the asset protection scheme.

Lloyds in Scotland

LLOYDS Banking Group will become Scotland's biggest employer in the financial services industry after the dramatic overhaul of it and rival Royal Bank of Scotland.

Its slimmed-down operation will be known as Bank of Scotland – a return to the iconic brand before it became HBOS (Halifax Bank of Scotland).

About 20,000 staff will be employed by Lloyds in Scotland and its registered office will remain at the Mound in Edinburgh.

The TSB brand will be sold, along with some Lloyds TSB branches in England. Lloyds will also sell its four Scottish branches of Cheltenham & Gloucester and the Intelligence Finance internet operation, based in Livingston and Rosyth.

There has been strong speculation that a consortium of Scottish businessmen could bid to take over TSB Scotland to create an independent Scottish bank.

Yesterday, Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy said he wanted to meet "serious" investors considering buying the Lloyds and RBS assets.

He also pledged to fight for "the best possible deal for Scotland" for jobs and facilities.

"I want to see as many banking jobs and HQ facilities as possible in Scotland," he said. "I will meet with serious potential investors considering buying the retail banking assets."











Page 1 of 1

 
1

The Real Rufus T Firefly,

03/11/2009 23:05:17
SNP Treasury spokesman Stewart Hosie warned that the disposal of certain divisions of Lloyds and RBS could impact on jobs in Scotland.
----------------------------------------------

There are no flies on Stewart Hosie.
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/11/2009 00:16:11

£40 billion, pulled out the hat to further prop-up, our banks, but no money for much needed housing, and upgrading of our schools, and the crippled NHS, well the seeing where the loyalty lies, and it certainly is not the tax payer.




3

eDUCATIon,

04/11/2009 00:22:17

The story is quite interesting but then there is the usual first 2 comments by the usual first 2 posters.....night after night after night after night etc

Have you 2 not got anything better to do with your lives like go out and see whats outside your front doors?
4

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 04/11/2009 00:24:49
Ha! Ha! The Slab and their promises they certainly got this one almost right, what was it again?

Oh! Yes it would cost every family in Scotland £5,000 in extra taxes if and SNP government was elected in Scotland.
Yes it is going to cost every family in Scotland £4,500 to sort out the problems created not by the Scottish Government but by that bunch of useless nincompoops in Westminster. This is the cost of the lack of control of the money grabbing bankers and their friends the greedy MP’s and their expenses.

I see the great “Harriet” has changed her mind also, this time on the non implementation of the “Kelly” report and recommendations. Still we will find out the opinion of the silent majority in six months time when we put our mark on the ballot paper.
5

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 04/11/2009 00:26:31
How many helicopters woud 39,2 Billion buy ?
6

Traquìr,

Alba 04/11/2009 00:27:27
"Customers would be pawns in a bigger game"

Hmm, I think this could me more fairly stated as

"Scotland is a pawn in a bigger British game"
7

Big Tam fae The Pans,

04/11/2009 00:36:10
Guys , if the banks go we all go back to living in caves so please do not make it seem like it is some sort of choice between Banks and hospitals because it isnt.

Grow up.

May I sugggest to stephen Hestler that if RBS hadnt have been so bloody irresponsible and stupid regarding paying stupid money for ABN at the stupidest time , they might have been in better control of their own situation. They are heading back to being little more than a parochial retail bank with overseas extensions. They only have themselves to blame and the credit crunch they themslves helped to cause has screwed us all up.

Learn and move on, stop throwing your toys about stephen.
8

Traquìr,

Alba 04/11/2009 00:48:05
Interesting how two Scottish banks HBOS and RBS both ended up with nearly every toxic asset.

Statistically there are two options here :

. Firstly Scots are utterly incompetent, which of course will be the argument of the Brit Nat Scottish quisling contingent

or

. Secondly the fact that the vast majority of London Banks ended up with next to no toxic debt they orchestrated stiffing the Scottish banks who were starting to encroach on their private club.

Based on past form, the former sounds much more likely.
9

Tatties ower the side,

04/11/2009 03:39:38
Hester..."We do feel that life has in many ways been made more difficult for us......"

Well sorry, Stephen, but life is A LOT more difficult for many of us because of RBS stupidity and greed!!!!!!!
10

Baggy Troosers,

04/11/2009 03:58:34
#1

So Rupert the Fly is making a comeback.

He should be able to raise the Class of comments from the Unionist Brigade.

We will all be better people after reading Rupert's take on Politics in Scotland.

Wonder what'll happen to,

Doctor Death
Creature from the Black Lagoon
Cedric Kessler
Sufur Back
Jerry Springer
Justin Timbercake
Etc Etc Etc
11

Strompy,

04/11/2009 04:21:05
Independence is dead. Fact! Let's look:

In total, the British taxpayers exposure to RBS now stands at more than £250 billion( more than half a trillion dollars), this is because the government has also underwritten many of its so-called toxic assets as well as funding its day to day running. So how does an independent Scotland pay it all back?

Anyone?

12

DeanConinPeteFSteed,

04/11/2009 04:45:37
This Hester is trying to take us for fools. More difficult doesn't mean the taxpayer won't see every penny back in the long term.
13

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 04/11/2009 05:03:17
The only word I can use for the unionists is DESPARATION, oh and PANICK... SCOTLAND IS LEAVING THIS DISUNITED KINGDOM and there is nothing peacfully england can do about it.Have a nice day.............
14

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 04/11/2009 05:32:03
The banking crisis. A story of humungus greed. A story reflecting the times. How the big boys screwed up bigtime. How we all began to understand the workings of 'the city'. How some clever writers made a wee killing with their airport novels. i.e. 'City Boy' 'Hedge Fund Wives' Robert Peston 'Who the hell runs Britain' 'How I bought my Ferrari' I made that one up. and finally ' How's my overdraft today?'
15

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 04/11/2009 05:59:51
#8 What absolute paranoiac piffle,these Banks were about as Scottish as Suntory Whisky.
16

Strompy,

04/11/2009 06:46:02
I'll have what Scotindy is smokin. lol

17

DeanConinPeteFSteed,

04/11/2009 06:54:32
Scotindy
#13
Probably a good idea to revise your comments. I wouldn't want you to look stupid or anything.
18

Rob Veers,

04/11/2009 07:21:46
#13 Scotindy
This is nothing to worry about but you seem to of picked up a hitchhiker on one of your words. I'll give you a clue, there's too much panic in your post.
19

Tomdonald,

04/11/2009 07:23:53
The whole point here is that Hester, Goodwin, and McKillop are all experts in common sense. They rely on their divisional directors for expertise.

This whole problem is down to the man in the street being economical with the truth.

The correct title for this depression is the "credit card crunch" just as in 1930 when it was the Gold Standard crunch.

Get politics out of the way. Cameron is the most likely to do it because PR is the way forward so that all good men can come to the aid of humanity!!
20

Jings MacCrivvens,

04/11/2009 07:26:07
Ah, the final push by Labour to ruin the country's economy before it is consigned to oblivion by the electorate.

Not content with bankrupting the economy the Labour Party is making a pre-emptive "up yours" gesture by bankrupting the electorate as well.
21

Tomdonald,

04/11/2009 07:27:16
Eck take note too, on that PR point. The sooner we get to a USGB the better!!
22

Ugly George,

04/11/2009 07:54:54
8 Traquir
"Secondly the fact that the vast majority of London Banks ended up with next to no toxic debt they orchestrated stiffing the Scottish banks who were starting to encroach on their private club."

Oh dear - another conspiracy theory. Please inform us how the "London banks" could have "orchestrated" the expensive RBS takover of ABN Amro a move which ultimately proved disastrous for them.

Please also inform us how they "orchestarted" HBOS corporate finance dept into going out of its depth in the commercial property market.

You refer to the London banks being a "private club" and imply that they do not like others "encroaching" on them. If so why are there over 500 different banks from all over the world operating in London? Is this a "private club"? And why would these 500 gang up on RBS and HBOS?

Please learn something about these matters before you indulgfe in such conspiracy theories.
23

Ugly George,

04/11/2009 08:11:32
8 Traquir
PS
regarding your comment :
"Interesting how two Scottish banks HBOS and RBS both ended up with nearly every toxic asset."

That shows how little you know of the situation. The toxic assets which caused the banking crisis came from a variety of sources including the US sub-prime mortgage area. Virtually all big banks were exposed to these to a greater or lesser extent and others such as Barclays, HSBC had write-offs as a result.

Your conspiracy theory implies that not just the 500 banks operating in London but lots of other banks worldwide conspired to get RBS and HBOS to acquire nearly all of the toxic assets.

The problem with RBS and HBOS was one of degree of exposure compared to deposit base.
24

Linda,

Edinburgh 04/11/2009 08:20:00
Lack of regulation in US and UK caused this crisis.

It was not the SNP or Scottish independence that brought it about.

90% of the "toxic loans" of RBS and HBOS are in England and Wales so even allowing we had same lax regulations post independence, the UK government would have to step in to protect its businesses and mortgage holders as a Scottish government may not feel obliged to do so.
25

Machelpus,

04/11/2009 08:24:23
Welcome to the E.S.S.R well Europe is where Mr Salmond sees the place to rest his hat, this is a foretaste of things to come. your kinsman signed Britain away as he stealthily on his own [after the big show of the other leaders had left] he signed us up to Lisbon, the directive for all this came from Brussels not Westminster that is nuetered and not mush more than a parish council. Frankfurt has been designated the money centre of Europe not London so get used to it..
26

Ben Thehoose,

04/11/2009 08:25:22
Hester is a twit. The need is for many small banks, none of which is too big to be allowed to fail. Hester is trying to resist the tide of progress and reform. I wonder why?
27

Ugly George,

04/11/2009 08:29:40
24 linda
"90% of the "toxic loans" of RBS and HBOS are in England and Wales"

I think you need to brush up on your geography. RBS got into trouble after they paid a large amount for the takover of ABN Amro whose HQ was in Amsterdam. The last time I looked at a map, Amsterdam was not in England nor Wales. RBS also had problems at its US operation.

Where did you get the 90% figure from?
28

Vaward,

04/11/2009 08:30:20
#24 toxic loans" of RBS and HBOS are in England and Wales

Amazing ignorance.



29

Oldcrafty,

04/11/2009 08:38:43
Your reward from a government who usurped the name Labour and discarded its socialist principles, in favour of the far right and naked capatilism is £4,350 of debt you did not ask for.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/6497081/4350-per-family-to-bail-out-Britains-banks.html
30

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 04/11/2009 08:41:08
What Mr Hester might also have said is that this move will make it a lot harder to earn his massive results-based bonus, but we won't talk about that. Why at this juncture order banks to break up just at the point where they are being nurtured through to some form of payback? And then propose to chuck another £40bn at them - this is complete madness and further reason as if it were needed that we need the EU like a hole in the head. This is 40x what the Heid Bummer wants us to through at global warming per annum! And that was supposed to save the world. Oh dear. Don't tell me I have to vote UKIP now to get us out of this madness as Boy Dave seems to have reneged on his cast-iron promise to let us have a referendum.
31

A Crofter,

Most Stable Arce 04/11/2009 08:46:06
#24 - "It was not the SNP or Scottish independence that brought it about."

"Scottish independence" doesn't exist, and the SNP Fuehrer (ex-banker) assured us - not so long ago - that "the Scottish banks are amongst the most stable financial institutions in the world".

Never mind, we'll soon have the most stable dunes in the golfing world - and overrated suits like Hester will be the only ones able to afford the membership fees.
32

Ugly George,

04/11/2009 08:47:53
24 Linda
PS
Your point lacks any logic or reality. Do we expect the US govt to bail out UK banks who have toxic sub-prime mortgage assets in the USA?

Why would a govt take on debts just to bail out a foreign based bank?
33

Newsflash,

http://tinyurl.com/myy4wy 04/11/2009 09:01:15
#22 Ugly. Your pompous attempts at strutting the intellectual high ground are constantly blown away by your fantasy land guff. But worse still your grasp of spelling is appalling. What a balloon.
34

Newsflash,

http://tinyurl.com/myy4wy 04/11/2009 09:11:36
#31. Scottish independence has existed in the Church and legal system for centuries that will shortly allow for a very smooth transition to full fiscal independence and full control of our country. Your defence of the indefensible is predictable but just breaking wind and nothing more.

You English slipped up by having to bribe the church and the legal boys club to accept the Union without a squeak. It has now returned to thwart your imperialistic ambition.

As we speak our civil servants are finalising plans for Independence Day. We shall claim our freedom like the vast number of small independent nations on earth, and create a civilised and just country despite you agents of the British National cabal.
35

ColinChoseTomForte,

04/11/2009 09:18:22
This is nothing to smile about I know, still I did notice by reading the above piece how there will be no RBS branches south of the border. In effect the debt owed by RBS is now Scotland’s debt.
36

Laird O'Gorgie,

04/11/2009 09:19:26
Meassge for the terminally thick Nats-
Both HBOS and RBS are Scottish banks because they are run from Scotland, they are headquartered in Scotland and all the key decisions are made by the Scottish based management.
The regiment that they are not Scottish because the shareholders didn't fight at Culloden or whatever is peurile in the extreme.
37

The Answer,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 09:24:18
2# 4 Linda,Edinburgh 04/11/2009 08:20:00


"90% of the "toxic loans" of RBS and HBOS are in England and Wales"

just because you say so, dosent mean it's true!





Most of the damage was done in the corporate lending arm, overseen by Peter Cummings. An inside source at Lloyds recently revealed the extent of the Glaswegian’s folly


The slide reveals that, of the £116bn of corporate lending advanced by Cummings’ BoS Corporate unit, £80bn — a stunning 69% — would have been beyond the pale to Lloyds TSB

Put simply this means that, of every £1,000,000 Cummings and his colleagues at BoS Corporate lent to business customers — including all those property wannabees who are dropping like flies at the moment — only £310,000 would have been lent by a “normal” bank, such as Lloyds TSB once was.


tinyurl.com/ygr4eca




http://www.ianfraser.org/?p=877
38

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 04/11/2009 09:46:41
Why has the EU stuck its oar in now? The RBS Group hasn't expanded in the last couple of years so this is very much a retrospective step. Surely the time to intervene was at the time of the AMRO takeover - although, contrary to popular opinion, RBS was by no means the largest member of the takeover consortium and its AMRO interests are mainly in the US.

This looks like a clumsy carrot-and-stick exercise with the aim of handing over very valuable taxpayer assets at bargain-basement prices to the corporate jackals that surround Westminster and Brussels.

39

Andy1,

04/11/2009 10:34:21
#38 I don't know where you got your ABN AMRO info from but it's wrong!

RBS was the largest of the consortium partners with 38% - Fortis (now Dutch Government) and Santander each had lesser shares.

The ABN AMRO assets that RBS took on, or will take on, were not mainly in the US, they were aminly in Europe and Asia.

And the EC are only now involed as a State Aid matter, so they are only now concerned because the Group has received State Aid.

These sort of message boards do illustrate very well how little the public understand the banking system and what went wrong and how reliant we all are on it. The media doesn't help right enough with their take on it all!

40

Linda,

Edinburgh 04/11/2009 11:02:28
To Answer # 37 The vast bulk of BoS corporate lending was down south.
41

Linda,

Edinburgh 04/11/2009 11:04:35
Gordon Brown UK government and US federal reserve to blame.

The resignation of Sir James Crosby– one of the prime ministers key advisors - followed revelations that when he was chief executive of bank HBOS he sacked a whistleblower who warned that banks were heading for disaster. Sir James was knighted on the recommendation of the UK government, and later appointment as deputy chairman of the FSA.

The warnings by the HBOS whistle blower reflect similar warnings given to the FSA and the Prime Minister about Icelandic banks months before the UK Government took any action - and which is now seen as being so heavy handed it precipitated an even more rapid collapse.
42

Mrs Broon,

Scotland 04/11/2009 11:04:40
Well thank you Andy1, we need a bit of advice here. I may be a bit of a conspiracy theorist but things in the rest of the world seem to be moving along, just Labour's Britain left as usual. My main worry is the amount of blame being apportioned to the "Scottish" Banks. I don't trust not only the British Government but the British Establishment who see one of their colonies getting uppity, and we all know now how much we lost the last time that happened in the 1970's.
I really don't understand those people who post here with great glee at the demise of a main employer here in Scotland and who apparently wants to remain beggars of the British State. May I suggest they get out more, read a few of the "British" newspapers and find out what their fellow travellers in England think of them. To them we are all the same, they think Gordon Brown is a nationalist and we, including the young men we have contributed to the British Army are just "Porridge Wogs".
I cannot say whether Stephen Hester is right or wrong about breaking up RBS, but things in this world keep moving in a circle, I personally would prefer RBS to remain in Scotland. They have served me well for over 35 years and would find it a pain to remove the account.
If you have a problem with the Banks and most of us do, the Serious Fraud Squad should have been called in a proper blame apportioned.
43

Temple,

Italy 04/11/2009 11:07:09
OT excuse me guys , but this antiscottish "newspaper" made a deal with Bill Gates ? Firefox doesn't work
44

cataibh,

Bo'ness 04/11/2009 11:29:51
31# A crofter, tell me how stable are the sand dunes of Morrich Mhor and Whiteness Sands.
45

New Town Resident,

04/11/2009 11:57:26
Regulators regulate. It's what they do.

The problem here is that RBS has passed to an EU regulator who is even less responsive to the overall needs of Scotland, let alone the UK,than a UK regulator would be. So the UK taxpayer will suffer just as much as RBS as a company from this dreadful ruling.

However the "consumerist" regulators are a UK problem as well as an EU problem. Their ideology is always that competition and the consumer is king - never mind the effect on employment, or the long term health and development of companies. Don't worry, the textbook says the market will always "clear" and anyway the Regulators have nice public sector well paid protected jobs.

For eample the electricity regulator broke up most of the England and wales electricty companies in the 1990s. Fortunately their remit didn't run in Scotland and the Tory Scottish office protected SP and HSE as was.

But the end result is that the whole UK electricty sector is now largely foreign owned, we have some of the highest electricity prices in Europe and are starved of investment. All in the name of protecting the consumer.

Similarly the UK FSA is now saying bank charges for those in default are too high. Result will of course be that the majority will now have to pay bank charges for the first time. Another great deal for the consumer. Not.

What can be done about these wretched regulators? Bonfire of the quangos anyone?

Alas, precious little can be done as they are bodies set up under the EU single market regulatory framework and so protected by the Maastricht treaty. All Scottish independence would do is to have our own versions of them (more public sector high paid jobs for the few) but the same crazy self serving rulings.

46

,

04/11/2009 12:03:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 04/11/2009 12:04:50
#39 Andy1
From the RBS information for shareholders in advance of the April 2008 rights issue.

The bank also stated, in the same document, that it would sell off Direct Line and Churchill. My objection to the sell-off is that there is a world of difference between a commercially acceptable sale at a commercially acceptable time which would benefit the shareholders and a forced sale for political reasons that will benefit only the financial sponsors of the politiians involved.

48

Ugly George,

04/11/2009 12:16:19
24 newsflash
"22 Ugly. Your pompous attempts at strutting the intellectual high ground are constantly blown away by your fantasy land guff. But worse still your grasp of spelling is appalling. What a balloon."

Like so many others, you have nothing in the way of reasoned, logical argument in response to the points I made - just abuse and insults.

Far be it from me to return the abuse and insults but I might speculate that, with yourself as a point of reference, others may feel that the "intellectual high ground" constitutes a molehill that disappears at high tide.

PS : I do know that there should be an e in takeover or take-over. Careless spelling - what a reprehensible crime! Who is being pompous now?
49

Arfur,

04/11/2009 12:19:19
26 Ben Thehoose - more and smaller banks my be best going forward re recessions but what Stephen Hester is saying is that this is a bad deal for the tax payer.

The money pumped into the banks wont even break even until RBS's share price can get up to 55p (currently at 37p). By selling off the banks most profitable arms hence taking longer to pay off the government hence shareholders not getting dividend it could be a long long time before the tax payer see's any benefit from the bail outs.
50

Arfur,

04/11/2009 12:19:38
my = may
51

Arfur,

04/11/2009 12:21:39
and before someone minces on about shareholders getting paid dividend before tax payers get their money back - if dividend is not paid no one buys the shares so the share price stays low.
52

Jo Public,

04/11/2009 12:34:09
#4 Jeemy,

You are right in what you post but your figures are under-egged. The actual cost to every family in Scotland (and the UK) of this Government's cack-handling of the economy is an eye watering £24,000 per person. The government has got us into debt to the tune of £1.4 TRILLION all told. That's £24,000 each - for every man, woman and child - whether a child just out the womb or a pensioner struggling on £100 per week. A cataclysmic effect on us and future generations.

Please remember this come next polling day.


53

Jo Public,

04/11/2009 12:38:42
And Harwoman's decision to water down the Kelly report recommendations is yet another example of too many crooks spoiling the broth. Here we have MPs bringing out laws to catch benefit cheats who may claim a few pounds extra now and again, whilst they themselves waltz off with huge pockets full of tax-payers' cash and escape any punishment whatsoever.

Joe Public is stirring on the streets - believe me.
54

Andy1,

04/11/2009 12:45:29
#47

I'd read it again as what you've said is wrong.

RBS holds 38% of the holding company which now owns ABM AMRO - that was their share of the deal, the other two have slightly smaller shares.

And the documet did not say they were selling direct Line and Churchill, it said at the time that they were looking to sell these, at the right price. The right price did not come and it was decided to keep the businesses. and actually, they are just brands within the RBS Insurance business which they were looking to sell all of.

Now of course they are being forced to sell RBS Insurance - a profitable business it would like to keep.

We should remember this is an EC requirement, the Treasury were actually fighting alongside RBS for much of this.
55

Ugly George,

04/11/2009 12:58:13
49 Arfur
It must be doubtful if taxpayers will ever be able to get their money back. I think that the 55p figure is now out of date.

According to today's share price, the market capitalisation of RBS is £20.8bn. The govt's share is 84%. This means that the taxpayer owns less than £18bn in RBS equity.

But, according to the article the govt is making another £25bn "cash injection" into RBS. This together with the initial £21bn equity purchase takes the total to £46bn.

So the current share price of 37p would have to more than double for taxpayrs to get there money back.
56

Boudicca's Henchman,

In the wash 04/11/2009 13:12:37
I feel a story coming on. Two families living n semi-detached houses, one lot always seem to rushing about in and out of schemes; always seeming to have a high old time. Next door it was different. careful consideration was given to all matters fiscal and moral, which was why many people found that whilst it was tedious to do business with them they were honest.
When the party started next door the first reaction was a waste of money, then immoral, but every one seemed to have a great time so they joined in. As time went on they became prime movers and shakers but what they did not notice was that those who started it had long gone leaving them to pick up the rubbish.

How about trying an English quotation "To thyne own self be true"
57

,

04/11/2009 13:46:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 04/11/2009 14:21:52
All much too technical for me I'm afraid. But was interested in New Town Resident's contribution.This European Union is overstretching itself? The bloggers on the Daily Telgraph are quite mutinous today, re the EU. They are not happy with Call me Dave. They are not happy with Gordo. At least the expenses scandal is being seen to. Just half the MPs at the next election. And get the European crowd to audit their expenses and accounts. Back to the banking story. Bonuses? What a nerve they have.
59

,

04/11/2009 15:16:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

,

04/11/2009 15:26:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
61

Moder8,

EDINBURGH 04/11/2009 17:34:50
Can anyone tell me what and where are the toxic debts? Who owes the banks? Why are the banks and the Government not pursuing those debtors to get the money back,or seizing the assets of the debtors? Surely there must be a record of who owes what.
Or are we Brits going to "write off" those debts and let the debtors go Scot free, burdening our country with other peoples debts. Surely it is time to make known who are reneging on repayment.
62

Darien,

Panama 04/11/2009 20:12:56
#61 Moder8: "Can anyone tell me what and where are the toxic debts?"

Yes, the toxic loans are mostly in England. People and firms borrowed far too much based on rising property values and a fluid property market. Now values have fallen and demand for property has crashed, hence the toxic loans.

The bank bailout was to reprieve the English economy, nothing to do with Scotland where property values remain fairly constant. The so-called 'Scottish' banks are actually London-traded/owned banks that just happen to have brass plates on doors in Edinburgh. They should have the name 'Scotland' taken away from them for the damage they do to the Scotland brand and image.

The union began with a bust bank and is ending the same way, which is the only bright spot in an otherwise tragic series of events.
63

JT,

04/11/2009 20:27:34
Like the other paracites at the top of banking he is only worried about the salary an bonus package he gets.
64

The Answer,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 21:19:34
#62

next you will be telling us that the scotch only manage to produce just over 6% of UK university undergradutes because of the midges.
65

The Answer,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 21:53:31
Restoring the reputation of Scotland’s banks!!!!!!!!!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/04af9c68-8226-11de-9c5e-00144feabdc0,dwp_uuid=a712eb94-dc2b-11da-890d-0000779e2340.html


tinyurl.com/yjlz4qr
66

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 04/11/2009 22:17:37
Why is Mr Hestor lining up bonuses of 11 million quid while 3500 low paid staff are being shown the door?
67

Jo Public,

04/11/2009 23:32:58
#66. Corporate greed and the Capitalist economy.
68

Darien,

Panama 04/11/2009 23:38:33
#64 The Answer:

"undergradutes" is spelt undergraduates.
69

Observer,,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 23:48:07
67 Capitalism is about corporate greed.

So the answer is just capitalism.
70

Observer,,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 23:51:38
Banks are not Scottish or British or anything like that at all. They are banks. They are currently running the country, the only thing that could put a brake on them is the industrialists because they are a tad peed off that the financiers are getting all the money.

 

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