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SNP demands power to cut voting age to 16

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Published Date: 13 June 2008
YOU can go to war for your country, legally have sex, get married or be held responsible for a crime.
Now the Scottish Government has called for the voting age to be lowered to 16 and demanded the powers from Westminster to implement the change in Scotland.

It had previously been suggested that by giving Scotland's 131,000 16- and 17-year-olds th
e franchise, the SNP would pick up more votes than the other parties, which could swing results in key council and Holyrood seats.

But the call by Bruce Crawford, the SNP minister for parliament, at a meeting of the Electoral Reform Society yesterday, was also seen as an attempt to highlight divisions between Westminster and Holyrood.

At Westminster, lowering the voting age is far down the political agenda, even though Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, has given it his personal backing. Mr Crawford has now made it a priority at Holyrood.

To emphasise the SNP's commitment to giving the franchise to teenagers, he also promised a bill bringing forward direct elections to health boards in Scotland, which would include votes of 16-year-olds upwards.

If, as the SNP want, Holyrood is given complete control over elections in Scotland both for the parliament and councils, then the Scottish Government would probably be able to push through a younger voting age.

Mr Crawford said: "It is the responsibility of us all to get young people interested in the democratic process.

"While 16-year-olds can pay taxes, get married or serve in the armed forces, they effectively have to bite their lip when it comes to decisions that will affect them."

He added: "As with so much of Scotland's electoral legislation, reducing the voting age is a matter reserved to Westminster. I can see no good reason why the voting age for elections in Scotland should not be decided in Scotland by our own democratically elected parliament, representing the people of Scotland."

The move was welcomed by the Liberal Democrats and the Electoral Reform Society (ERS), both of whom have been campaigning for a considerable time to lower the voting age.

Amy Rodger, the ERS Scotland director, said: "Just as Scotland has shown the way by introducing STV (single transferable votes] for its local elections, we are delighted the Scottish Government is now also taking the lead on this issue."

But Labour and the Tories, who in the end are likely to decide in Westminster whether to lower the voting age, were far more cautious in their approach to the issue.

A Scottish Labour spokesman said: "Labour has examined the merits of lowering the voting age to 16. Any change is best dealt with across all elections rather than a piecemeal approach."

David McLetchie, for the Tories, said: "Austria is the only European country which has a nationwide voting age below 18. Of the few other countries in the world that do, the likes of Iran, Sudan, Cuba and North Korea are hardly paragons of democratic virtue."

'We've a right to have our opinions heard'

KATIE STEWART


AS A 16-year-old, I welcome this campaign for a change in the voting age, because I believe that many 16 and 17-year-olds are as interested in the decisions made – decisions that will affect them – as most over 18s. At 16, you are considered an adult in many ways – you can leave school, work full-time, get married, start a family. Not being able to have a say in the decisions that will affect your life becomes ludicrous in the face of all that.

The power to decide the age to vote in the elections to the Scottish Parliament and to Westminster, is a reserved power, held by Westminster. But why should the age to vote in elections in our own country be a reserved matter?

Shouldn't this issue be given into the hands of the Scottish Parliament, to do with as they see fit? And why is Westminster so reluctant to allow under 18s to vote? Young people are as interested and as eager to take part in the process of government as people over 18, and we have a right for our voices and opinions to be heard.

Yes, there are 16- and 17-year-olds that are completely uninterested and probably wouldn't even use the vote – but there are many adults who don't vote and don't care about what goes on in the government.

Young people should not be denied the vote because some, maybe even the majority of them, wouldn't use it.



The full article contains 767 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 June 2008 12:08 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 00:09:41
"It had previously been suggested that by giving Scotland's 131,000 16- and 17-year-olds the franchise, the SNP would pick up more votes than the other parties, which could swing results in key council and Holyrood seats."

And, in a nutshell, we have the SNP's primary motivation for this.
2

Nikostratos,

13/06/2008 00:28:58
They should raise the voting age to 97 under that people are just not mature enough to be trusted to vote.
3

David MacVicar,

Location:Scottish News Blackout on negative Union 13/06/2008 00:31:13
From my post on the Herald:

Context:While I am a supporter of the SNP I am not a member.

This is obviously a move for political gain for the SNP. Why? Studies have shown that teenagers support independence more than other demographics.

So there is clear advantage to the SNP in pushing the lower age limit. No surprise there.

However...SNP aside

16 is the age that we generally can go to work and pay taxes. I am a firm believer of no taxation without representation. Therefore I back this SNP policy but ONLY because it fits with my democratic beliefs and not because of SNP advantage.

An added bonus just the same ;).

Meanwhile......Back in Brit deception central:
Westminster will certainly oppose such democratic tendencies tooth and nail. As will the Scottish cringe and England based forum posters fighting to justify continued Scottish subvention. How sad.
4

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 13/06/2008 00:38:02
The points proposed for reducing the voting age to 16 omits the most important and most relevant and that is that from the age of 16 citizens in the UK receive a National Insurance number and if they work and their rate of pay reaches the appropriate thresholds they are subject to tax. If the Government and the law can demand taxation from them as individuals, they are fundamentally entitled to a say in how that taxation is spent.

Britain lost its first and richest colony on this very principle. If the raison d'etre of the mightiest power in the world, the United States of America was founded on 'No taxation without representation.' , then 200 years later such principle remains unalterable.

Either 16 year olds are accorded the vote or those who have been subject to the taxation system should be refunded until they become 18 years old. Is our public revenues in such a desperate plight that we require the modest contributions of 16 and 17 year olds.

I am open minded on whether the voting age should be 16 or 18. What I am sure of is that the voting age and the taxation age should be the same.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 00:52:44

'GET LOST'! yer telling me you want the age of "voting" made at 16years and on the other hand you criticize them Purchasing Alcohol, and want the age limit put-up to 21years!

Some Cheek!
6

walter,

13/06/2008 00:55:31
While 16-year-olds can pay taxes, get married or serve in the armed forces, they effectively have to bite their lip when it comes to decisions that will affect them.

Then after these 16/17 year olds who have finished work, picked up their pay packet, checked the tax they have paid, went to the polling station, voted SNP (they hope), can they go to the pub and have a pint or will the SNP deny these 16/17 year olds they so much want to have a say in the democratic process the right to buy alcohol.
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 00:58:39

And Don't forget the,...'Cigarette's'!

But that's OK!

Vote for us,...'Suckers'!
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 01:02:05

Yeh canny Puchase Booze!, Yeh canny Puchase Fags!

But you can Vote!

"VOTE" FOR WHAT,???
9

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 13/06/2008 01:04:16
Richard1 I do not know why you have made a comment. The fundamental principle that broke the American colonies away from Britain in the 1770s was that of 'No taxation without representation' What America is now, their question.
16 year olds are subject to taxation. They accordingly are entitled to representaion. It is one of the basic tenets of democracy. As for Walter's comment perhaps the voting age should remain at 18, in which case the national insurance and taxation age should be raised to 18 also.
10

somerferg,

perth 13/06/2008 01:15:16

Memo to Charlie - the critisism about buying alcohol is related to binge drinking which unless you live in a big castle and never venture out on to the streets of sunny Edinburgh is a huge issue in the capital as well as every other town in Scotland. Giving the vots to 16 year olds is a good idea no matter who they vote for. Unless of course you and the other tired old parties (tories, Numpties, Fib Dems) have something to fear??
11

Pat Scot,

13/06/2008 01:27:12
19 Richard1

Is that the same reason as the Lib Dems have for supporting the reduction in age.

It's their future, and I hope their idealism kicks a few @rses into dealing with matters important to them and their future.
12

Pat Scot,

13/06/2008 01:30:04
19 Richard 1 and 23 me

and I wouldn't regard a SNP vote as a rebel gesture against authority - they are the authority, just now.
13

Jock MacSprog,

13/06/2008 01:43:27
of course the Nats want this. Their superfical, emotive platform depends on their voters being morons, teenagers and teuchters.
14

Otis Boone,

Sacramento 13/06/2008 01:45:31
#11 Right on

Our citizenry can't drink until 21 because that's the condition the Feds required before it would release highway (Motorway - your English) maintenance construction funds to the States.

Sixteen Year Olds can't vote here because it would require a constitutional amendment, meaning 2/3 State Legislatures must approve. Why won't it happen? Because here our teenagers (myself included though I was last one 10 years ago) can't vote for prom queen in good conscience.

My personal view, teenagers pay taxes when they work, but here they need adult and/or school permission before a permit is issued. I consider it provisional adulthood - let them get some experience seeing how the government screws us before they get to experience voting for the jerks. That way they'll understand why they picked liberal, conservative or moderate in their ideology.
15

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/06/2008 02:49:28
Responsibility is growing up, and as Captn Gustav Ericson said, "You should start young.". 16 years are unlikely to have much understanding of why Scotand is the state its in, but neither do most adults. An army marches on its stomach (do you want to do this in Afghanistan?) but how is it funded? and did Scots go from players in an imperial stunt to living in the gimmick laden UK gimcrack economy. Why did they not talk the first faltering steps to Independence like irish, norwegians, kiwis etc?

[You may yawn if you've heard this before]

In the fishing biz., 16 year olds would take their watch and be entirely responsible for the ship and those aboard. At least you'd know that lawyer-capitalism was as great a threat to your survival as the sea!

Without ever being trusted with genuine reponsibility (when capable of some) youth will naturally overdose on booze, drugs, sex, cars. As we see. And we can't all be merchant bankers and financiers?

16

John Gilmore,

Montreal 13/06/2008 03:39:49
Good idea.....but will the Scottish Nutter Party also
lower the drinking, smoking and now sunbed age to 16?

Time was when you could get married in Scotland at 14 .. or was it younger?
17

Royster,

13/06/2008 03:41:24
Voting should be for adults. If you become an adult at 16 fine. Everyone pays tax when they buy something - even 3-year-olds. It's called VAT. Should 3-year-olds get the vote?
18

!Ya basta!,

13/06/2008 03:41:43
Nobody should be going to war or even getting married at 16 so its hardly a good comparison. The vast majority of 16 year olds do not have enough undertsanding of the system to make a judgement and will probabaly vote the same way as their parents. 16 and 17 year olds are still children, albeit mature ones. Let's be sensible and keep it at 18.
19

,

13/06/2008 03:45:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

Royster,

13/06/2008 04:54:40
It would be a form of child abuse. Young people need to be protected from politicians.
21

,

13/06/2008 05:05:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

,

13/06/2008 05:05:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

Beth Boyle,

NY 13/06/2008 05:40:03
I can't believe this, its really insane. I have lost all respect for the SNP.
24

Jimmy the Pie,

13/06/2008 06:39:42
Richard

Are you really AM2/British Pride/Highland Idiot/Head Window Licker???

You talk the same statistical drivel, repeating yourself over and over again.

It's quite sad really but there will always be a bed for you in Carstairs.
25

Charley,

Dubai 13/06/2008 06:52:28
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5121552.stm

Aye, you can certainly die for your country....this makes me so angry. At least all these gentleman could vote! 100+ for what? Please, can someone explain?
26

Jimmy the Pie,

13/06/2008 07:02:43

#49 Richard1,

Postings #33,35,40 & 46. Like they were written by AM2!!

Your post #46 is utter drivel.

But you already know that don't you?
27

Jimmy the Pie,

13/06/2008 07:04:57
#46 Richard

Do you work nightshift, cleaning the statistical company's offices???

Remember and clock off or you won't get paid!!
28

W Smith,

Middle East 13/06/2008 07:53:50
Is Salmond suggesting the younger, dumber, inexperienced and immature are more likely to vote SNP?

He could be right!

Who else would trust Kenny MacAskill with law and order?
29

Jimmy the Pie,

13/06/2008 08:03:51
#56

So all the graduates,older, experienced mature voters are going to vote for Red Wendy, Lard Foolkes and our favourite harridan, Maggie Curren???

Care for a bet???
30

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 08:39:58
47 Jimmy the pie
Why do you dismiss claims that North sea oil production is falling markedly as "drivel" This is an accepted and acknowledged fact. Production peaked in 1999 at 2.9 milllion barells per day and is now at less than half of that level. Check the RBS monthly oil index and BERR info. for yourself. They both confirm this. The latest RBS statement (April) desribed an annual decline in production of 15%. If this is compounded over 8 years (2007-2015)you do get to a situation of production being between only 20 and 30% of its current level.
Please check facts bfore you seek to abuse and insult other contributors and question their mental health.
31

Boy Wonder,

13/06/2008 08:50:55
I think age 16 is quite enough for the age of majority for everything, whether it be marrying, driving, work, drinking, smoking, sex, fighting and of course, voting.

32

Lothian Unionist,

13/06/2008 08:56:09
Another political trick by the master himself, be rest assured Salmond, and any other politician, are not in politics to help you and I. It's self preservation and ego, if polls would show an overwhelming majority of 16-18 year olds voting against the SNP, we wouldn't be hearing about it.

And anyway, what 16 year old is interested in politics? Surely he should be enjoying life instead of acting like a little berk!
33

Upbeat,

13/06/2008 09:06:04
If this is the only way the SNP thinks they can get a majority of course they will push for it.

At 16 most young people could not list 10 of the top twelve UK cities in terms of population, they could not name four of the country's largest ports, they would not be able to mark the location of Sellafield, Torness , Dungeness and Hunterston accurately on a map. They would not be able to list the first ten members of the EU or mark the location of each of these countries on a map.

To say that at 16 the average young British person is equipped to vote intelligently is simply not borne out by the facts. At 16 a person is not as knowledgeable or familiar with the ways of the world as they will be at 18. Despite having the "right" to get married, join the armed forces in a Junior capacity, or leave school, it is not until they are older that the majority can care for themselves, and manage their own affairs without assistance from others, or begin to understand their adult responsibilities.

Could it be that the SNP consider that at 16 the average person is more open to suggestion from their olders ?

Point made I think .
34

Alan B,

13/06/2008 09:32:40
This is a good idea.

One thing i think most people are not taking into account is the age of voting in a general election is not really 18. It is 18 or over at the point of that election.

As such when i was first allowed to vote I was 22. This was made worse by the fact that Major ran a 5yr term at the time.

One problem is young people not voting. Part of that could be do with lack of knowledge about how to vote. If you can only vote after u have left the family home u do not have ur parents to tell u how to vote.

This follows one of my main gribes and that is how difficult it is to vote in the uk for a number of reasons. Much of that is do with some problem with most elections and how to deal with the administrative problems that always seem to happen round our elections. (The sp one the first to get a big media circus round the mess.)

Have an educational campaign round voting would be useful. How do u make sure u are registered. What happens if u move home shortly before an election. What happens if ur polling card does not arrive. Where is ur polling station if ur polling card does not arrive. What can u do if ur postal vote does not arrive on time.

There are other related problems like what can u do if u have to work late at short notice. Go away on business at short notice. Our whole election procedure is more for those that have a settled place to stay and do not move regularly and have jobs that do not involve anything irregular ie working away from home, going to business meetings not in ur area. etc.
35

Alan B,

13/06/2008 09:41:11
#Upbeat

I do not think having knowledge of a map is particularly relevent. U could easily argue that people at that age would have a much more informed view of the education system one of the main areas of political policy.

In many ways as people get older they more cynical and some start to think it does matter which party get in they are all the same. ie the tories and labour are just as bad as each other type of thing.

If u take in election 4 of most important issues:
-economy
-education
-health
-transport

Most of the population are clueless with regards the economy.

And i cannot see young people that bother to vote being ignorant particulary about the other 3. In some ways they maybe use public transport more not have cars.

On matters of environment and even energy policy they are as likely to have a meaningful opinion as anyone else.

What u may see is many voting the way their parents do. But that is an issue in scotland we have seen with much older people. The sheep effect that makes people in scotland vote labour.

In many ways in the sp with more choice that could be less of a factor. A better democratic system would mean most people should not be loyal to any party but vote on the quality of the party and their policies at that time.
36

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 13/06/2008 09:49:52
#10 - How many 16 year old do you know who work and pay taxes?

Registered electors vote on matters that involve spending the £600 billion or so collected from taxation in the UK annually.
If you allow children to vote - and a 16 year old is still technically 'a child', you are saying : well you don't contribute to taxation but you can vote on how taxes are dispensed.

The American Revolution slogan was "No taxation without representation".

The British one should be: " no voting on the giving away of public money until you yourself are a taxpayer".
37

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 13/06/2008 09:53:33
16 - 17 year olds would tend to vote like their parents at that age. They are only just begining to be politically aware. The taxation system deems a 16 year old to be an adult and the right to vote should fall in line with that. The age when particular laws apply is not relevant.

Smoking or drinking ages are not relevant. Just as the age when folk get bus passes.

No taxation without representation must be the guiding principle. As for VAT paid by 3 year olds. That is a red herring. The parent is paying the VAT when the child receives the 50p to buy a Mars bar.

If 18 is deemed adulthood and the age for voting then the taxation system for income tax and national insurance should be raised to 18. any income a 16 -17 year old receives should be considered part of learning. I doubt the amount lost to the revenue would be much. If it is considerable then they have a right to determine how it is spent by parliament.
38

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 09:56:54
Would it not be rather bizarre to have laws which state that a 16/17 year old is not considered responsible enough to buy bottle of beer but is considered resonsible enough to decide the future of the country?
39

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 10:00:04
63. There are no adult SNP voters in these forums (except the ex-pat nats who don't count as they don't live here).

The SNP are after giving these 'Braveheart Neds' the vote which is just plain scary.
40

Upbeat,

13/06/2008 10:02:11
64 Alan B.

The attempt I set out in #61 was to indicate how little about their country the average 16 year old actually understands. The specifics i.e. geographical facts, are not the point. If you can show me a group of 10 16 year olds who can name five recent prime ministers, can name theplace in Northern France where the British army suffered its biggest single day loss of life, can correctly tell what the prevailing rate of VAT is, know the name of the second European city where the EU parliament also meets once a month. Can indicate what the lower Income tax threshold might be to the nearest £100, can outline what the speaker's role is in the House of commons should be , and can also say what the currencies of France Switzerland Denmark, Sweden, and Norway are. Then viwing the outcome of this new test we might be getting the point across. The fact is that at 16 the average person is not aware enough to be able to make an informed decision about most Political matters. Let alone be wise enough to understand the significance of casting their vote intelligently.
41

Publius,

London 13/06/2008 10:03:18
#57 Ugly George

It's worse than that. At 16 you can buy contraceptives and have sex, but you can't buy cigarettes and have a smoke afterwards!
42

Highland Mighty,

SNP: Spreading lies and hatred since 1934. 13/06/2008 10:04:03
How about giving people on large incomes extra votes in recognition of their much higher taxes?

How about giving the elderly more votes in recognition of their life-long contribution to society?

How about banning ex-pats from the vote as they pay zero/very little taxes and don't even live here?
43

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 10:05:37
69. Such a reasoned and obvious argument has no place on this forum.
44

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 10:14:26
64 Alan B
I might appear to be contradicting my ealier point but have to ask what proportion of over 18s would get all of these questions right?
45

Alonso,

Aberdeen 13/06/2008 10:19:17
#69 - I would be very very surprised if the majority of those over 18 could answer correctly to those questions. To test it out, I've just asked a 36 yr old colleague with a PhD in Psychology and she couldn't answer all the questions and struggled with most. I don't think that between the ages of 16 and 18 there is a magical transition which gives you these answers.

#67 - Having worked in pubs and restaurants in the past, it is my experience that there are plenty of people over 18 right up to retirement age who are not responsible to buy a drink. Yet, they can still vote.

46

brownlie,

13/06/2008 10:19:23
72 Highland

A see a tiny flaw in your postings. If only sensible people are allowed to vote who is going to vote for our glorious unionist agenda?

It would mean that the Calman Commission would have to resign en masse.
47

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 10:23:53
70 Publius
Good point.

On a point of clarification - if a man pays a woman for sex, infects her with HIV and has a smoke afterwards, is it true that his only offence is to smoke in the place of somebody's employment?
48

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 10:31:09
64 Alan B / 69 Upbeat
Ooops sorry - made an error. My post (#73) was intended for 69 Upbeat not for 64 Alan B
49

bluehead,

edinburgh 13/06/2008 10:34:22
I hope this is not a sign of desperation the simple reason is that at that age, part of a young persons's brain is still not working.
a person must have some experience of life to spot all the bums ,chancers and wasters that inhabit the political world, youg people should concentrate on enjoying life
politicians stink out every thing they go near,
you have only to look at this present goverment to see
how much a country can be destroyed
50

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 13/06/2008 10:37:39
The real questions should be. What's the point? What can a politician give a 16 year old that a bottle of buckfast Abbey Wine Cannot? How will they get to the polling station without a driving license? What's their motivation as they don't get broo money? And why isn't Eminem on the list?
51

Publius,

London 13/06/2008 10:39:19
#76 Ugly George

Could be you're right. One good thing about the anti-smoking laws is that they've generated a new form of people's architecture at pubs - outdoor smoking areas. They are getting more and more elaborate with roofs, walls on three sides and patio heaters. Before long there will be annual awards for smoking areas!

P.S. I don't smoke, but I like to show solidarity with persecuted minorities, like white, male, middle smokers.
52

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town 13/06/2008 10:51:52
No.71: Highland Mighty >
How about giving people on large incomes extra votes in recognition of their much higher taxes?

This is precisely what I have argued for over many years. It is the only way to halt the unhealthy political influence of frightful clerks, gentlemen's hairdressers and plasterers, most of whom are simply to feckless to exercise their vote in a responsible manner.
53

Arfur,

13/06/2008 10:55:05
I am 100% behind this. I remember when I was 17 and wanted to vote but couldn't. And at that time I would have voted Labour. So this is nothing to do with whether SNP would get more votes or not.

I dont think anybody really knows who the youngsters would vote for even with AM2/Highland Blighty/something Pride/Richard1(thats a new one) numbers (honest they are not picked out of my nose).

#2 Highland Mighty - "And, in a nutshell, we have the SNP's primary motivation for this" actually that statement in your post, in a nutshell, is to be anti SNP as per usual.

#52 AM2 - "Spook knows I’m not Highland Mighty but continues making the claim, presumably for effect" - complete bull. Someone even posted one of your slips yesterday where you admitted being Highland.

Maybe the should make it mental age tho instead of actual age. That would rule AM2/Highland Blighty and Kimba instantly from voting.
54

Mike555,

13/06/2008 11:00:58
Another wonderful wheeze thought up by lazy people sitting in plush offices with nothing much to do.

Give newborn babies the vote and be done with it!!
55

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 11:05:47
80 Publius
Yes I have noticed the same about smoking areas outside pubs but it is probably only a matter of time before pressure from fundamentalist environmentalists leads to the banning of patio heaters.
56

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 11:13:33
82. You are an idiot or a liar.

However, you are a nat so tell us something we don't already know.
57

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 11:16:11
75. Still thinking this fake-unionist username is clever/funny/interesting/fooling anyone/original?

Our 'nationalist fringe', ladies and germs!
58

thinking,

Scotland 13/06/2008 11:22:51
With so many teenage marriages ending in disaster 16 is too young for marriage and too young for many other responsibilities. It is a learning time to gain experience which will help in making decisions that have such huge consequences.
If we seriously (and honestly)look back to our teenage years we will usually find that our beliefs have now changed according to our greater understanding which has come from experience.
We have enough of a problem now with many politicians who have never really experienced the outside world, having gone straight from education to the political!! life.
59

brownlie,

13/06/2008 11:25:26
85 Highland

Quite right, anyone who does not agree with our politics must be either one or the other!!

Any word of Alfred E.?
60

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 11:25:44
86. Highland - you posted above that the SNP were backing this for self-interest as young people were more likely to vote SNP.

AM2 has posted poll data which suggests the reverse, and politicians from all parties also back such a move.

Why do you always make yourself look like a total pillock?
61

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 11:32:58
89. Why do you always post insults instead of any hint of reasoned argument?

Is there ever going to be a point to your posts?

Anyway, you go right ahead and believe Salmond and his followers when they say it is about giving teenagers who pay taxes/can be military junior soldiers the vote and NOT about getting more nationalist support.
62

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 11:33:47
"YOU can go to war for your country, legally have sex, get married or be held responsible for a crime." [at age 16]

But you can't buy alcohol, buy tobacco, drive a car or ride a motorbike.

If they want people to be able to vote at 16 (which is a rediculous idea anyway) then why are they not allowed to buy drink? Why did they recently introduce the brain-dead law about not being bale to buy tobacco under 16? Why are they not pressing for changes to allow driving at an earlier age?

This is just complete madness.
63

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 11:37:25
90. Highland - i refer you to your post at #85 where you call all Nats "idiots or liars" and then to your post #90 where you decry "insults" and must ask you again, why do you always make yourself look like a ludicrous, posturing, cretinous, hypocritical pillock?
64

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 11:39:21
90. Are you saying that AM2 was lying with his election data that showed less support for the SNP in the younger age group? And can you explain why Liberal, Tory and Labour politicians who back such a move are doing so, if such a move can only be about boosting SNP support? Or are your knee-jerk and predicatble little rants just the usual pointless anti-SNP mentalist dribble we expect from you?
65

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 11:42:42
91. You can't go to war for your country at age 16. You must be at least 18.

92. No, stating that nats are liars/idiots/both is called a FACT. What you do is hurl abuse at anyone who disagrees with you or challenges your ridiculous claims. That's the difference.

Now, I'm bored with you so begone.
66

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 11:44:45
94.... and Highland goes forth to carry on his crusade for the Union....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLSNzEorbI
67

kimba,

13/06/2008 11:46:10
Salmond will try to use every trick in the book to get re-elected,including using naive kids who haven't got the experience or knowledge to make a balanced judgement,hope gordy told them to get stuffed!
68

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 11:49:49
96. Kimba, how is your new diet going?
69

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 11:51:01
97. And yet another mature post of great relevance to the debate from Ayrshire Scot.

Outstanding.
70

brownlie,

13/06/2008 11:57:40
96 Kimba

Good morning, Kimba

You are quite right - we need sensible and knowledgeable people like your good self to vote for the union.

Gordon and David - long to reign over us!!
71

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 11:59:15
99. Bam. And the nats score another winner.

Fantastic.
72

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 12:00:36
98/ 94 - I thought you were bored with me? And yet you keep posting to me? Are you trying to make yourself look like a retarded cretin? As for high minded debate, everyone can read #85 and will just think you are a posturing idiotic plonker.
73

brownlie,

13/06/2008 12:02:25
100 Highland

What is "bam" - please explain this posting?
74

brownlie,

13/06/2008 12:07:25
86 Highland

I've just noticed this post as I did not think it referred to me.

Please explain how the user name "Brownlie" is "fake unionist".

At least I have the courage to use my own name and I only post as Brownlie.

I do not use any pseudo user-names.

Can you in all honestry say the same?
75

brownlie,

13/06/2008 12:08:02
103

"honesty"
76

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13/06/2008 12:09:11
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77

kimba,

13/06/2008 12:09:59
AYRSHIRE/BROWNLIE. Please explain why salmond wants kids to get the vote,if not for his own ends,he knows full well that kids of that age are impressionable,he also knows without them he is stuffed!
As for my "diet" sorry to have to tell you this ayrshire,but at 5ft 7in and 10st 4lb my doc says i'm ok,so go boil yer heid pal!
78

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 12:14:15
106. Aha, you have lost 4 stone since you last posted your weight - well done.

Extending the vote to 16/17 years old, a proposal I am undecided on, may related to the fact that this group pays tax, may be about addressing the much discussed disengagement of young people from politics and many other reasons.... as for your ludicrous point this is self interest from the SNP, such a proposal has supporters in all parties..
79

Jimmy the Pie,

13/06/2008 12:19:16
#103 Brownlie

At least I have the courage to use my own name and I only post as Brownlie.

I do not use any pseudo user-names.

Can you in all honesty say the same?

OH NO HE CAN'T!!!
80

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13/06/2008 12:19:33
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81

brownlie,

13/06/2008 12:21:45
106 Kimba

My honest answer to you is that I do not know why Salmond, or, indeed, those from the Tory, Labour or Lib parties, want to give the vote to 16 year olds.

All I can say is that I have worked extensively with teenagers for sixteen years. Some are sensible, some are not - just like the rest of the population.

I really do not believe that, on reaching the age of 18, you suddenly become more sensible then you were the day before.
82

kimba,

13/06/2008 12:22:37
107. That may be so,but not all parties are calling for the voting age to be reduced to 16,at that age they are still kids,they haven't got the knowledge to make an informed decision.
83

Pilrig.,

Livingston 13/06/2008 12:22:53
38 - so the age of sexual consent will have to be raised to 18. wow ! that law's going to be observed allright !
84

Pilrig.,

Livingston 13/06/2008 12:24:56
112 - and as soon as their 18th birthday occurs, they become automatically responsible to make an informed decision ?
85

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13/06/2008 12:30:36
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86

kimba,

13/06/2008 12:30:59
111,brownlie. I too work with kids aged 7-16,and as you say some are more sensible than others,but,they all lack the knowledge of a 18 year old,who has been either to college or is employed,this is a totally different environment from school,they learn so much in those two years.
87

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13/06/2008 12:33:02
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kimba,

13/06/2008 12:37:22
114. Oh do grow up,these are children, and if they go to college still in receipt of child benefit,they need to live in the real world for a while,and not be dependent on their parents.
89

CLX,

Abz 13/06/2008 12:38:00
Oh yes, it's a nats thing, only a nats thing.
If this is true then why was the following reported?

"At Westminster, lowering the voting age is far down the political agenda, even though Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, has given it his personal backing."

All the usual suspects prefer to ignore that part of the so called story.

Lies, deceit, treachery etc, etc, etc.
It seems as though the unionist posters are all 16 and under as they are struggling to make any informed comments on the matter....
90

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13/06/2008 12:44:02
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91

kimba,

13/06/2008 12:44:50
117. Plenty of people may disagree with my point of view,that is their perogative,but to reduce the voting age to 16 in sheer stupidity. I can confirm i am a good few years older than 16!
92

kimba,

13/06/2008 12:49:24
118.What 16 year old "kills on my behalf" no 16 year old is sent to the front line in any situation, they have to be at least 17,and done basic training!
93

Shave,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 12:49:29
The young are the amongst the greatest users of public services and yet they have no direct representation.

So, why not give them the vote from when their birth is registered? That vote could be held by their parent/guardian until they are deemed responsible/turn 16. It may supply some much needed impetus to sort out education.



Discuss.
94

Arfur,

13/06/2008 12:50:08
116 mount kimba - being in the same learning difficulty class as kids aged 7-16 is not the same as 'working with them'. As for your weight -there is certainly none in the head.

As for you Highland there is no end to your stupidity. You refer to me as a liar yet you refuse to admit that you are AM2. Yet you have slipped twice that I have seen and admitted it and someone posted yesterday another one of your slips.
95

Geoff,

sa 13/06/2008 12:51:37
Intersting comment from a Guardian story on the probable "No" majority in the Irish EU referendum.

"Ireland would still be the sick man of Europe had it not been for the European Union"

Benefits of staying in the Union or "Union Dividend eh chaps? :) So much for the sinn fein(note small letters) Celtic Tiger! :)
96

Arfur,

13/06/2008 12:52:25
125 kimba - WRONG.
97

Geoff,

sa 13/06/2008 12:52:41
Simple. 16 year olds are far too young to vote-even have my doubts about 18 yr olds.
98

Saruman,

13/06/2008 12:53:21
This is nothing more than an attempt by the Nats to embed in the mind of young people that Scotland is very different from the rest of the UK: look how we can trust our Scottish youngsters in a way they can’t be trusted in the rest of the country and look at how progressive and different we are in Scotland.

The Nats are obviously hoping that a large proportion of the votes of the grateful youngsters will go to them and, following on from their attempt to stifle UK news at 6 o’clock, this can only be seen as yet another consequence of the party’s resolute instance on promoting its unpopular separatist agenda at all costs.
99

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 12:53:23
125. Kimba, I am puzzled, if you are only 10 stone 7, why do you look so oleaginously huge, whale-likem, bloated and circular in the picture you sent to Magic Hoops? I think you are telling porkies again....
100

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 12:54:32
128. Geoff, indeed with a GDP per capita which massively outstrips the UK, why is it so much for the Celtic Tiger?
101

kimba,

13/06/2008 12:58:29
127. YOU SEE THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM,YOU ARE A BIGOTED TW-T,I TEACH 7-16 YEAR OLDS, and by your posts you really need some help!
102

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 12:59:31
134. Teach or eat?
103

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:00:35
132. That pic was taken when I was 18,a lot has changed in 4 years.
104

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:01:13
132. except the boobs!
105

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:01:29
136. 18 stone? And why are you sending out pics that are 30 years out of date when trying to groom and ensare people to eat on the internet?
106

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:02:10
135. TEACH!
107

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:02:35
136. How long have you been working with kids Kimba?
108

Geoff,

sa 13/06/2008 13:07:16
133 Ayrshire Scot-morning AS! According to Richard 1 above, the UK has contributed 276 Billion Euros(says he falling in a faint into the waitin arms of his amply bosomed secretary on hearing this stat) to the EU in thirty years and Ireland has contributed nothing!!!!! When I was in Dublins fair city last year there were ample signs on public works such as toll roads proudly proclaiming "Funded by the EU". Hell AS, no wonder the Paddies have higher GDP's per capitata than the poor Brits!
109

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:07:52
138. ARE YOU A TOTAL WA===R, THAT WAS THE ONLY PIC I HAD AT THE TIME,BUT, SINCE WHEN DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO THE LIKES OF YOU!
110

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 13:08:02
I've had it with the SNP on so many fronts: they are simple opportunists.
111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:08:04
141. I ask Kimba, because you have posted that you have several years experience working with children (you posted that last years, when your "21"), and that you are also a graduate of Durham University (canteen I presume).... odd that you now claim to be only 22....

Tell us how your court case is progressing against Magic Hoops ? Last we heard you were suing him for defamation or summat using your lawyers (snigger), Ronans, of 70 Norton Road Stockton (which turned out to be a day care centre for the mentally handicapped)

What a dribbling, deluded fat mentalist
112

Sedov,

Scotland 13/06/2008 13:08:49
I totally support voting rights for 16 year olds notwithstanding the SNP motives that young people may be attracted by the populist appeal of the SNP and their image, in the eyes of many, of kilts, swords and kailyard banter.
113

Arfur,

13/06/2008 13:11:17
I refuce to believe that anyone with any sence would alow mount kimba, the thickest cookie monster in the west, to teach children.

135 Ayrshire Scot™ - do not be silly, kimbas to thick to get away with that. Now their lunchboxes - yes.
114

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:12:23
141. Since I past my level three teachers assistant exam last year. I specialise in teaching kids with reading difficulties.
115

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:12:27
148. Thats an awful lot of luncboxes Arfur, to explain the state of the whale-like big circle that is Mount Kimba in the pic she sent out....
116

Geoff,

sa 13/06/2008 13:13:04
139 Spook- och shame Spook-I'm sure we could make an exception in your case. What worries me is if they start putting an upper limit... Now let me think-was it the er SNP or SUP i'm supposed to vote for?"

on a serious note it shouldnt make any difference to overall voting patterns-if you allow 14 year olds to vote there is no real reason to suppose that the spread of supportwill vary much from that of the populace at large-Dad and mums influence etc.Unless of course oorAlex statrts handing out free mars bars(or Jaffa Cakes!)
117

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:13:04
150. LOL. Oh Kimba, you are a fantasist... you are barely literate yourself
118

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:13:32
148. you may like to spell "refuse" correctly!
119

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:17:40
150. If you would like to give me your address I will gladly sent you a copy of my certificate,oh,and here's another shock to your system i passed with a B PLUS!
120

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 13:19:33
Like I said before.

No taxation without representation.

If we are not allowed to vote then do not tax us.

and for those who suggest that 16 year olds are not mature enough to vote well then many could be qaulified in Modern Studies which actually teaches them about politics.

They could know more then a 21 year old
121

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:20:58
156. LOL. Do universities like Durham now award degrees with bandings of "B+"

Oh what a laughing stock you are you squalid fat fantasist. How is your court case going? You never told us?
122

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 13:22:40
156. OK, I'll give you an email address and you can send me a scanned copy of your Durham degree certificate and other qualifications - OK?
123

Allan(handofgod137),

13/06/2008 13:24:00
Another red herring from wee eck and the scottish numpty party, to divert attention from their broken election promises.
124

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:28:04
Come back after lunch and Ayrshire Scot STILL sustains his 100% record for posting irrelevant drivel and abuse.

How's that nursing job of yours going? I heard you lost the job, is that right?

And are you STILL denying that the SNP's main motivation for this is to gather more votes from society's most impressionable?

What a tedious little joke of an individual you are.
125

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:31:19
160. yep, you are a repugnant, sizist,bigoted,racsist,sorry excuse for a human being,you are taking valuble oxgen from people who need it,the only way you can win an arguement is by taking personal
al pot shots.
126

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:32:40
142. This year will be the first time Ireland will be a net contributor to the EU.
127

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:33:21
airyscot.post me your address,are are you full of sh-t!
128

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:33:34
166. Another winner of a post. Congratulations.

That you clearly believe that AM2 and I are one and the same is all the information we need to judge your credibility.
129

Geoff,

sa 13/06/2008 13:36:23
159 Spook-actually on reflection I feel pretty neutral about the issue. I think that electorates worlwide are full of people who neither care about nor understand the issues regardless of age. Even in the politically mature USA we have the circus-like antics at conventions-the flags and funny hats and streamers and rah-rahs-not to mention a particular favorite-when for eg Hillary Clinton pretends to see an old friend in the audience and breaks into that wide eyed smile of delight-nauseating!
130

Arfur,

13/06/2008 13:37:21
Mount Kimba - do these kids just sit there quietly while you eat their pack lunches and post your garbage all day?
131

kimba,

13/06/2008 13:40:44
ARFUR. DO YOU YOU SIT THEIR AND SPOUT BIGOTED C--P!
132

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:44:39
108. Ah, everybody's favourite racist.

The 'priority pledge' (initially reneged on by the SNP but forced through by the Tories, let's not forget) was for 1000 ADDITIONAL officers, not 'new'.

But total police numbers are actually DOWN on this time last year due to retirements. The SNP are a long way short of meeting this 'priority pledge' (initially reneged on by the SNP but forced through by the Tories, let's not forget).
133

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:46:06
174. Another Pulitzer contender.

Idiots, liars and racists....You gotta love these nationalists.
134

brownlie,

13/06/2008 13:46:14
Highland

I still await your honest answer to my question at 103.
135

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:49:31
179. Yes.

Can you prove otherwise?

I think I can quite safely that you can't.

I wonder how I can be so sure.....very curious.
136

Highland Mighty,

13/06/2008 13:50:14
180. Ah, the old "No, that's what you are!" retort.

Fantastic.
137

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13/06/2008 13:50:54
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13/06/2008 13:56:10
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brownlie,

13/06/2008 13:58:57
181 Highland Mighty/British Pride

Your dishonesty disappoints me.
140

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13/06/2008 14:00:54
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 14:00:54
#150 Kimba, you say you are teaching kids with reading difficulties. God help them.

You wrote: "Since I past my level three teachers assistant exam last year. I specialise in teaching kids with reading difficulties." (sic)

May I take the liberty of correcting your English so that you may better help the poor wee bairns:

"Since I passed [NB. you passed it you did not “past” it] my level three teacher's [NB. possessive apostrophe required here] assistant exam last year,[NB. comma not full stop here] I specialise in teaching kids with reading difficulties."

I guess three serious mistakes in one sentence aren’t too bad by today's English teaching standards.
142

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13/06/2008 14:03:24
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13/06/2008 14:04:44
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13/06/2008 14:07:07
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brownlie,

13/06/2008 14:16:27
202 The sun-tanned Spook

Whose bottom?
146

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13/06/2008 14:16:33
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13/06/2008 14:23:55
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 14:24:09
#204 What are "dedicated community police officers"?

In my books you're either a proper policeman or police woman or you're a good-for-nothing nosy power minded busy body (also known as an unpaid Special Constable) or you are the lowest of the low, a Community Police Officer - a person who just grasps at any wee uniform to give them a little power kick in their sad lives.
149

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 13/06/2008 14:27:32
Studies on the development of the brain have shown that the section dealing with accepting resonsibility for one's actions finally matures at the age of 25 years. I suppose that tells us a thing or two about military service, divorce, drinking, etc? I understand that car hire companies used to have an age limit of over 25 years for someone hiring a car? I do not know if that is still the case.
150

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13/06/2008 14:29:26
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13/06/2008 14:36:21
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 14:37:53
#212 Yes I saw it five years ago; 'twas an October evening with a howling wind and an evil cast to the light; I remember it well. Sadly I couldn't photograph the wee beastie as a Community Police Officer came along and told me that I was parked on a single yellow line. I remonstrated with him of course, but he was a typical "jobsworth" do-gooder and but for him the greatest mystery the world has ever known would have been solved there and then.

153

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13/06/2008 14:43:20
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13/06/2008 14:58:27
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 15:00:21
This whole idea is mad and shows why the SNP is becoming unfit for government. 16 year olds are children; most don't even know how to spell properly anymore or do maths. Their school exams are a joke. That's not their fault - the system has let them down and the teachers are, in the main, hopeless. Forget about parents - they were a lost cause long ago.

So, the voting age should be raised to 21 along with the driving age: Common sense.
156

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13/06/2008 15:00:49
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13/06/2008 15:04:25
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13/06/2008 15:06:07
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 15:11:50
#224 Thanks but I'm not retired and only half English and if anybody ate me they would probably get a terminal stomach ache. The facts I stated still stand. Kids these days are virtually stupid as a result of a hopeless education system and useless teachers.
160

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13/06/2008 15:18:25
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13/06/2008 15:23:58
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Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/06/2008 15:25:02
Sense hits males at some undetermined age. Then it's important to do something important in life before this sense-factor cuts out or merely fades away. Most observations conclude that mankind is some kind of DOMESTICATED species like their own cows, sheep, dogs, horses, etc. This is contrary to all religious and scientific dogmas 'cept QED.

Rise like lions after slumber!

The Poet P B Shelley is calling to you.

After marrying, driving to work, stopping for a beer and cig, then having sex all legal at 16, it's the age also to fight and VOTE!
163

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13/06/2008 15:29:35
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John Gilmore,

Montreal 13/06/2008 15:46:03
Sunbeds - 18
Drinking - 18
Smoking - 18

Voting - 16

Is there a reason for this discrepancy?
Where else on this planet can you vote at 16?

The 'rationale' for the new 'sunbed' law was that
it put Scotland ahead of the rest of the UK.

I suggest voting at 6 - then we'd be even further ahead of the rest of the UK! Pre conception??
165

Winters,

Glasgow 13/06/2008 15:47:33
I wasn't allowed a vote until I was aged 21. Then the voting age was reduced to 18. This I consider to be about right. The SNP want it lowered to 16 because they know that young people are very impressionable and are easily manipulated. As people get older they learn a sense of responsibility. Don't forget that 16 at present is too young to be liable for their own debts and cannot on their own be taken to court for the non-payment.
166

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 15:47:51
Base the right to vote on IQ. That would sort things out.
167

brownlie,

13/06/2008 16:05:39
239 Mikko

Oh no! us unionists are doomed!!
168

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 16:07:51
I hate how individuals can acutally suggest that 16 and 17 year olds should not vote because they do not understand.

I have studied the Politics side at school and I am more skilled in that field then what someone older may be (unless they choose to learn more about Politics)

If a 16 year old can be trusted to have sex, smoke, get married, drive, leave school, buy lottery tickets, drink while having a meal etc etc then voting should also be allowed.

Only those who care about Politics would vote also at the end of the day.
169

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 16:14:04
#241 If you have been driving on your own at 16 years of age then you ought to go and own up at your local nick.

Personally I believe that nobody under 21 years should be allowed to vote and nobody under 25 should be allowed to drive. As for having sex, that's beyond our ability to control it so no point bothering even trying.
170

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13/06/2008 16:49:34
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13/06/2008 16:55:02
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13/06/2008 16:58:09
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Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/06/2008 17:03:33
#90:

You are correct. However, the quote from the article (which I copied and pasted) is not.

You can join the armed forces at 16 but you will not be posted operationally until you are 18.
174

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 17:20:11
#243 I'd vote for any party now to get us out of the EU. Back to the Common Market and a simple trading bloc. Well done Ireland - they have just thrown out the hated Lisbon Treaty.

As for being an onanist: never had problems on that front but if you do then I am sure your GP can help.
175

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 17:21:53
247. Glad to see Mikko has no problems with his onanism.
176

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 17:22:51
247. "Well done Ireland - they have just thrown out the hated Lisbon Treaty."

...and Unionists have been telling us for an age that countries the size of Scotland could never have any influence on the EU...

177

Scottish not British,

13/06/2008 17:38:55
If 16 year olds are mature enough to pay taxes and to fight and die in unjust wars like Iraq, they are mature enough to have a say in which government they pay to and who sends them off to war, that is basic common sense.
178

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 17:42:36
#250 I wasn't aware we had conscription for 16 year olds or anyone else in this country. They sign up voluntarily and get paid. Their choice; stop crying crocodile tears.
179

Scottish not British,

13/06/2008 17:47:52
#251
They should increase the age they can sign up and the age tax is paid to 18 then.
Or is this just patronising paternalism from a terriffied unionist. Honestly if it were for people like you women still would be denied the vote or be resticted to voting at 30.
180

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13/06/2008 17:53:14
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 17:58:18
251. So your point is that at 16 they are mature enough to sign legally binding employment contracts which committ them to the most prescriptive conditions with limited options to leave, be trained with guns and in lethal combat, but shouldn't be allowed to vote because they are not mature enough? But mature enough to be trained with weapons in killing and sign away the next several years?
182

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 17:59:02
Mikko.

You can drive on the road with a 50 cc vehicle.
183

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 17:59:06
253. If only his "tissue" was one of just lies, but his output suggests a more custardly kleenex
184

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 17:59:29
255. And Mikko does...
185

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 18:01:42
Ayrshire Scot™.

It does sound incredibly stupid.

and as I have said before if you choose to follow a course of 'Politics' within school then you are taught and well aware of the system and how it works.

When the MP's say the 16/17 year old are not capable of voting then why the hell are they teaching Politics in our schools?

and since they are teaching us Politics then they are doing a bad job if we are incapable of understanding and voting sensibly.
186

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13/06/2008 18:06:49
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187

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 18:07:14
#255 you cannot "drive" on the road at 16. You can ride a 50cc moped.

As for the rest of the silly sexual comments, they are not worth commenting on.
188

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 18:08:05
Mikko.

and car. It is a three wheeled french made vehicle
189

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 18:08:50
Mikko.

It only takes one 21 year old idiot to hit you in your 50 cc vehicle and kill you.
190

Scottish not British,

13/06/2008 18:18:22
According to the dvla the age varies at which age you can drive. People on Disability driving Allowance can drive at 16.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547
191

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 18:20:20
260. Well, as long as people are not "driving" their mopeds on the road that is totally different then, and I note you don't respond on 16 year olds being mature enough to sign the most prescriptive employment contracts in the UK (contracts which would be unenforceable and illegal in any other profession) and be trained in lethal combat with weapons, but should not vote....
192

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13/06/2008 18:25:15
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193

,

13/06/2008 18:27:12
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194

Enigma,

13/06/2008 18:34:35
16 year olds voting, dear God what next
195

,

13/06/2008 18:36:41
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13/06/2008 18:38:28
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Enigma,

13/06/2008 18:51:20
268
269

Knuckle dragging morons who are probably unfit to vote.
198

Enigma,

13/06/2008 18:52:48
268

Not that evidence concerns you much but not too many 16 year old pay tax...
199

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13/06/2008 18:59:04
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:00:12
Please report post 270 - clearly this enigma chap is having a breakdown
201

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 19:01:35
The SNP are truly devious and despicable if they have to try and win votes by netting gullible children. Anybody under 18 is a child and nobody under 21 should be allowed to vote.

As for signing up to the army @ 16 or 17; I take it they want the money so they can take it and the risks that go with it. Their choice.
202

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13/06/2008 19:04:35
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13/06/2008 19:05:40
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Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:18:17
277
An interesting idea Meths.
I call my sofa, Niko as it supports @rses.
205

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 19:18:36
271 Enigma.

My friends and I work and contribute to creating a strong economy.

The best person is of course children who have money to spend beause we pay for nothing else.

Mikko.

Unionist rubbish. This is supported by the SNP...but also Lib Dems and several others.

Agian, a person educated in Politics through school is far more capable to vote then most 21 year olds who perhaps dropped out of school or did not take Politics as a class.

Ah, you would allow a 16 year old to sign a 4 year contract and train to be a killer who will one day be sent somewhere to fight for their country.

But that country won't allow them a vote.

Being a soldier. they would be apart of the system of Government and should be allowed to vote no matter the age.
206

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 19:20:33
#276 The SNP does not have a monopoly on stupidity but they do believe that they can dupe the larger number of "Braveheart sword wielding wannabe Ninendo players" into voting Nationalist.

#277 Your language is disgusting and shows your side up for all it is.
207

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 19:23:37
Mikko.

Stop the rubbish.

This is not an SNP matter, this idea has more then one party and other individual backing.

If we had the power already then 16 years old and over would already be allowed to vote because more then 50% of the Scots Parliament supports it.
208

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 19:24:08
Up until the day before yesterday I have been an SNP voter but the bile I have seen on this and the Trump and Sean Connery threads have frankly shocked and sickened me. If this kind of stuff really is the root of the SNP then I want no part of it.
209

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13/06/2008 19:25:25
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210

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 19:25:40
Mikko.

Good for you.

I have supported Labour, Conservatives and SNP during my life.
211

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:25:46
284 - LOL. What a plonker. Do you think anyone buys your trolling guff? All a bit too transparent.... begone troll
212

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:26:23
285, I wonder what the offspring of Mikko and Enigma's onanism will look like? Curdled me thinks
213

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:26:49
288. Adjacent to your middle?
214

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:28:10
281
Hmm...somebody else once said the very same thing to me on these threads...
215

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:28:13
274 - Mikko "despicable gulling children" - perhaps you missed the part in the story about Gordon Brown, Liberals and Tories all supporting this..... are you lonley and just trolling to get a wee bit attention diddums?
216

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:29:09
288
Perhaps he is thinking of his back side?
217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:29:15
291 - Its the return of Highland/English Voice/ STirling Sentinel - this time its personal....
218

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:30:01
294. I think Mikko/ Highland/ Steling is typing with it... he must have a giant keyboard as he squats out his missives
219

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:33:06
300 for the SNP
220

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:34:16
301 for the SNP?
221

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 19:35:51
What a sad bunch you all are. Nothing better to do than try to punch out bullying messages on your keyboards to help maintain that veil of denial around each of your individually failed lives.

Nothing to say on policies, nothing to say of substance - nothing at all except the kind of language that you encounter any Friday night in any poor man's pub around the land. Fine, you don't like what I say: OK. But why the personal bile? Does it make you feel like a big man to say such things?
222

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13/06/2008 19:37:25
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Nikostratos,

13/06/2008 19:38:44
I see there is a lot of bullying of mikko going on tonight..and rude very rude remarks i guess not up on that kind of thing meself.
And of course Methalions and Ayrshire are the ringleaders egging all the others on. All surrounding him sticking the boot in.

Not nice at all..bully boys
224

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:39:26
301. Begone troll
225

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13/06/2008 19:39:52
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13/06/2008 19:41:47
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:42:11
305. I agree - begone Mikko, the wee jessie troll

http://www.othersteve.com/images/troll.jpg
228

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:44:06
303. Hiya Niko babey

jeez, i was just saying how witty you were to wee Spooky....
229

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:45:11
311. That one was for Niko and Kimba only
230

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:45:28
301
Patronising aren't you?
231

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13/06/2008 19:47:01
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Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 19:48:38
307
Good Evening McMadman(Shh...he hasn't noticed, Mikko thought I was talking himself...HeHe)
233

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 19:52:28
Thanks #303 Nikostratos. It is sad to see these SNP types shown up for what they are. I have been an SNP voter in all the recent elections but no more.

As for their bullying, it really doesn't bother me; I'm half Finnish. A proud little country (geographically bigger than the whole UK but population only 4 million with another million oversees - smaller than Scotland). We have a 2000 mile border with massive Russia but we fought them to a standstill in the Winter War and never ever gave up or lost our independence ever since. So a few ignorant Scots calling me every name under the sun and fantasising about what they would like to do to me because I dare to presume to give my opinion here is no worry to me.

And oh yes, you SNP people who sit at home tonight swilling your Tennant's lager; as both a UK and Finnish citizen I am always at risk of being called to fight in Finland to defend the country because we are too small to have a big enough professional army. So don't lecture me about soldiers and fighting. You don't know anything about it and should show some respect and humility instead of drunken style bullying and foul language. Just look at your wee selves.
234

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13/06/2008 19:52:38
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13/06/2008 19:53:47
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236

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:54:23
316. LOL. Nice one. You are quite the giggle.
237

Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/06/2008 19:54:32
The lowering of the voting age to 16 debate is happening in other European countries.

Austria has already done it. Lower Saxony and other states in Germany have voting at 16. But not Germany as a whole.

France and Italy are have a debate going.

Canada and New Zealand are talking about it.

It is a debate worth having.

We should get the Youth Parliament involved their input and the views of as many young people as possible

238

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13/06/2008 19:58:50
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239

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 19:59:17
317. Hey, why I got Childcare vouchers and you got Scotland in UK advert? Must be coz I sent more posts to jessie Troll Highland Mikko
240

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 20:01:14
#320 At last a sensible comment. Hopefully the Scotsman will soon delete all the above foul comments.

I agree with you Willie: Rational debate is what is needed. Not Tennant's fueled personal bile.
241

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13/06/2008 20:01:44
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:01:51
321. Alternatively, Mikko could try this

http://www.wortfilter.de/kurios/0701/troll-ex/index-Dateien/troll_spray.jpg
243

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 20:03:18
#321 I have lived here nearly two decades so I won't be called ["ignorant"] by anybody least of all you and your like.
244

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:03:21
324. Jeez, now I got "UK government, politics pages of the Gaurdian" - I am sure I visit racier sites than that
245

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:04:00
326. Mikko - you are ignorant.
246

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13/06/2008 20:05:03
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 20:09:10
#329 I never said there was anything wrong with Tennant's but I did imply that a lot of ignorant people drink too much of it. I stick by that.

And it's not a patch on Lapin Kulta. Ever tried it?
248

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 20:09:59
#330 Before the pedants wade in I meant Tennants. Forget the apostrophe.
249

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:10:38
331. Ignorant
250

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13/06/2008 20:11:00
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Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 20:11:39
329
How does he know? Mikko is omnipotent...or something like that.

Havn't started yet, but got a nice bottle of of La Chouffe in the fridge:-)
252

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:11:50
333. I agree, Mikko is an ignorant, jessie, chube troll
253

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13/06/2008 20:13:38
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254

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:16:11
336. I disagree, I find Mikko to be an intellectually impotent onanist troll of the Highland Mighty/ English voice, very lonely type, but he is good for a giggle and to be encouraged
255

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13/06/2008 20:20:18
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:20:47
i wonder when Enigma will be back
257

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13/06/2008 20:21:41
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:22:01
338. How odd. ALmost as if sad lonely trolls use more than one silly name? Surely not?
259

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13/06/2008 20:22:45
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:27:01
342 - yes, 339 amd 338 were simultaneous comments on the same sad onanist me things (Ps - he was an SNP voter until the day before yesteday, LOL, sure.... twunt can't even say Wednesday)
261

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 20:47:43
#344 I think I am better placed to say who I voted for than you. At least I can actually spell yesterday. Keep drinking.

I'm going to send this whole thread along with others to the SNP Inverness West branch where I used to be a member and ask them if they think all of you and your drunken style foul-mouthed bullying nasty views are what the party really wants to stand for. I doubt it.
262

Enigma,

13/06/2008 20:50:19
279

Are you really 16? Yes you can join the Army at 16, but you don`t go operational till 18, I know. So don`t pull that one!
263

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:52:22
345. LOL. LMAO. Oh, now you were a member of the SNP (until the day before the day before), until the SNP introduced the votes at 16 policy (which you find disgusting and an attempt to gull children), which they did 11 years ago. Begone plonker cra­p talking troll, begone (but post a few more plonker posts to give us all a giggle before you revert to another name hehehe)
264

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:53:22
346. Good job you aren't trained with deadly weapons in the meantime then
265

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 20:55:02
I don't need another name wee "Ayrshire Scot" because unlike you I don't feel the need to hide behind a silly handle.
Be gone indeed you wee big man.
266

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13/06/2008 20:56:24
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 20:58:50
349. Right, that's it, I am sending that post to the Perth East branch of 'knob jessie trolls r us' where you are a member and lets see what they have to say about your behaviour
268

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13/06/2008 21:01:06
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:02:23
349. Are you the leading Loch Ness Monster researcher who presents his "research" from a caravan to tourists?:

Nessie on the Net! Live Cam - the Highlands, Loch Ness, Scotland ...Leading Loch Ness Monster researcher, Mikko Takala, Inverness, presents his .... at one of the many free lay-bys available along the A82 Inverness – Fort William Road. ...
www.lochness.co.uk/livecam/ - 27k - Cached - Similar pages
More results from www.lochness.co.uk »
270

brownlie,

13/06/2008 21:04:04
316 Mikko

"... and never ever gave up or lost our independence ever since."

If it's good enough for a small country like Norway then surely it's good enough for a small country like Scotland?
271

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13/06/2008 21:04:23
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:04:41
349. Are you also involved with White Witches as you peddle your "loch Ness monster" expertise from a caravan?
----------------------------------
High Priest of British White Witches, Kevin Carlyon, also known as The High Priest and protector of Loch Ness, has warned he will invoke a hurricane to descend on the loch despite assurances from the Calman Trust that their plans to build a giant Loch Ness monster from 55,000 balloons will pose no threat to the environment.

The trust provides support for young people to move in to their own homes and lead independent lives.

Yesterday, a spokeswoman for the charity, Dr Isobel Grigor, sought to reassure Kevin and another environmentalist, Mikko Takala, who runs a webcam network for Nessie fans to watch activity on the loch from around the world.


http://www.highland-news.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/2628/A_load_of_hot_air_.html
273

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:05:24
356 - Oh no, better than that - he is a leading expert on the Loch Ness monster and cavorts with White Witches....
274

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:09:12
355. Not all countries have the backing of White Witches who lead the movement to protect the loch Ness monster mind...
275

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:09:41
And all of you mean what exactly?
276

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:10:59
363. You cavort with White Witches to protect the Loch Ness monster, and peddle Nessie "expertise" from a layby, surely you can tell what we mean through the medium of of messages received through your fillings or the tea leaves without asking us?
277

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:12:42
Now, does Mikko think that Loch Ness monsters below the age of 17 should be allowed to vote, as he peddles tat from a caravan in a lay-by?

Nessie: May 2006... to leading Loch Ness monster expert Mikko Takala for the official view. ... On Thursday, Scott emerged at Lochend, near Inverness, after walking 42 ...
nessie-gozo-scotland.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_archive.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

278

boudica,

Glasgow 13/06/2008 21:15:24
This has given me the best laugh all year ....16 is a lovely age ...but to give a 16 yr old the Vote ..I wouldnt even give them the Keys to the House at that age ...
279

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:15:33
366, Probs not enough aquatic monsters for him to make a living in Finland I suppose...he is a leading expert on the Loch Ness monster you know, and cooperated with leading white witches to protect it...



280

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:16:20
369. Or they Keys to your cellar Boudica.... we know, we know
281

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:16:32
#367 No Nessie plesiosaur should be allowed to vote below the age of 21. I thought I already made that clear and I do not want to see a Nessie under 25 driving around Inverness thank you very much.
282

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 21:17:35
362
Well it's a handle I suppose...
283

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:18:42
372. Do tell, did your joint campaign with Kevin help protect the Loch Ness Monster?
High Priest of British White Witches, Kevin Carlyon, also known as The High Priest and protector of Loch Ness, has warned he will invoke a hurricane to descend on the loch despite assurances...with leading Nessie expert Mikka .....
284

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13/06/2008 21:19:51
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285

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:20:44
Sad to see Mikko had poor trade at his Nessie Caravan (parked in a layb-by) over the festive period

It's all a pack of lies. On Christmas Eve they were telling us that "sales have never been better on the last day of shopping" yet on Christmas morning we learned that they had "slumped". Now we are told the "sales are the best ever". In the modern parlance, "yeah, whatever". It's all a disaster and they just try to drum up a bit of trade by hiding that fact.

Mikko Takala, Drumnadrochit, Inverness-shire

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article3097112.ece
286

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:23:17
Mikko has enlightened and thoughtful views beyond his areas of expertise in white witchcraft and peddling Nessie tat from a caravan:

------------------------------------------

Clever lot in Gaza, where will they get their food and water from now? Israel? Methinks not. Didn't really think it through again did they?

Mikko Takala, Inverness, Scotland

287

Mikko,

13/06/2008 21:25:23
#357 Funny how fortuitous our white witch was with that Calman Trust Balloon story. The day before yesterday the Marine Conservation Agency called on charities around the UK not to launch ballons as they end up in the sea and on beaches killing wildlife.

Some of us try and make a better environment instead of drinking lager and insulting other people and some of us have been proved right.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/ban-balloon-releases-says-marine-charity-844450.html
288

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:25:49
Mikko, along with White witch craft to call down hurricanes and being a leading expert on Nessie, also has strong views on the Tesco/ Asda question:

"Active GuestbookMikko Takala. Come on Highland Council; show some courage and just say NO! ... Tesco does not need another store in Inverness. Inverness needs an ASDA !
Mikko Takala, Inverness, Scotland"
289

ThomasP,

13/06/2008 21:26:36
369 boudica.

I actually spend 1 or 2 weeks in my house alone when my parents go on holiday.

=]
290

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:28:17
Mikko has proof, which others, apart from the White Witch he was working with to call down a hurricane on the loch to protect Nessie, have seen!

Cryptozoology.comI have seen the "evidence" of Mikko's photo's, although he still refuses to publish the 35mm photos which he .... Dolphins at Kessock Bridge, Inverness ...
www.cryptozoology.com/forum/topic_view_thread.php?tid=5&pid=293323 - 100k -
291

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:29:54
380. Well, if you feel the White Witch (and lord high witch protector of Loch Ness) helped you, with his threat to call down a hurricane to stop the balloons, who are we to disagree, especially if it helped you shift a bit more Nessie tat from your caravan which is parked on a layby?

292

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 21:30:14
374
Kevin is a name for a keyboard, or is that Meths being clairvoyant...?

See 277
293

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:31:02
378. Is he a White Witch/ high protector of Nessie and caller-downer of Hurricane to twart balloons also?
294

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13/06/2008 21:31:16
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,

13/06/2008 21:33:00
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:33:18
Mikko, have you been mis-representing your "Nessie expertise" - you seem to have annoyed the Loch Ness centre with your false claims>.....
----------------------------------------------------
Mikko Takala no longer works for the Loch Ness Centre, but you would not know this from his www.lochness.co.uk website which really is a disappointing collection of mainly rubbish.

http://www.loch-ness.org/miscellaneous.html
297

,

13/06/2008 21:34:24
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:36:08
#389 If you say you are not drinking I of course believe you. But I will believe all of you even more when you start posting like adults.
299

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:36:15
395. I am non-plussed!

300

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:37:23
396 - You are the one who cavorts with White Witches to call down hurricanes on Loch Ness, and you are the one that the Loch Ness centre is using their name to peddle tat (from a caravan in a layby) but if you say so...
301

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:38:09
#394 False claims? Please provide exact details and evidence to back up any such libel.
302

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 21:39:17
393
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xag3vLtsO-k
303

,

13/06/2008 21:39:28
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:42:02
403. Mikko - I refer you to the quote from the Loch Ness Centre above, where they say on their website:

----------------------------------------------------
Mikko Takala no longer works for the Loch Ness Centre, but you would not know this from his www.lochness.co.uk website which really is a disappointing collection of mainly rubbish.

http://www.loch-ness.org/miscellaneous.html

----------------------------------------------------

Now Mikko, is it true to sell mainly rubbish both from your website and your caravan? The man at the cryptozoology.com website did not seem to rate the photos of Nessie from Mikko Takala, Drumnadrochit. Why is this?
305

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:43:13
407. Mikko was "very outspoken about the Drumnadrochit village toilets"

LOL!!!!!!!!
306

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:43:32
#407 Thanks for the compliment - at last!

I'm just another environmentalist. We don't expect much thanks.
307

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:44:13
407. Mikko - hey, what was wrong with the Drumnadrochit village toilets?
308

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13/06/2008 21:44:51
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309

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:46:27
#412 They used to be desperate. A tiny (3m x 1.5m) hut incoprating both the male toilet and female toilet and it was never cleaned. No running water. The local kids took delight in putting a dead rat in the female toilet.

I will admit they are a million dollars today - I hope I contributed to the re-build.
310

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:47:26
413 - Hey, you'd better watch, Mikko is a good friend of the White Witch and Lord High Protector of nessie, who can apparently call down hurricanes.....

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High Priest of British White Witches, Kevin Carlyon, also known as The High Priest and protector of Loch Ness, has warned he will invoke a hurricane to descend on the loch. Yesterday, a spokeswoman for the charity, Dr Isobel Grigor, sought to reassure Kevin and another environmentalist, Mikko Takala,

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,

13/06/2008 21:47:27
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:48:06
#413 That depends soley on what if anything I am clearly being accused of.
313

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 21:48:11
411
Mikko
Can you recommend a nice secluded wee spot where I could dump my empty Tennent's lager cans and my used...er...party balloons?
314

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:48:13
414. How much time did you spend in them toilets?
315

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:48:43
417. Dribbling mentalism
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,

13/06/2008 21:50:33
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Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 21:51:34
421
You're welcome Kent.
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:53:44
At least I can go to my grave knowing that Drumnadrochit has decent bogs, I tried to stop the hideous visitor centre at Urquhart Castle, prove Nessie exists and was years ahead of the pack saying that ballons are bad for the environment. What have you all done?
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:53:46
422. I have seen it, apparently Mikko Takala, of Buinot, Drumnadrochit runs this website where he associates himself with the Loch Ness Centre, and is the same Mikko Takala, of Buinot, Drumnadrochit who runs a a tat selling toruist caravan from a layby near Urquhart Castle. He is also the same Mikko Takala, of Buinot, Drumnadrochit who has strong opinions on the lavvies of said vilage, and who is friendly with the Lord High White Witch, who he credits (on this thread) of helping stop some environmental faux pas by power of hurricane induction..... and Mikko says he well send MY posts to Inverness West SNP to indicate I am unsound...
320

boudica,

Glasgow 13/06/2008 21:54:36
375 ..They can have the keys to their own home ..but have you experianced teenage neighbors ? ..they like loud music and loud pals .yapping to all hours at night ..having a laugh..they are 18 and entitled to .That is what they do God love em ..and being 18 they fail to understand why some of us grumpy old yins ...arent intersted in listening to it all ..I say 16 should be left to Grow up at their own pace ..Brain damage for the rest of but that is life ..let them worry about other things like what trainers should they buy or who is the best group ...The Kooks ot The Killers..no wonder the Kids are all nuts ..we keeping giving them pressure pressure ..Leave them alone ..
321

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:54:37
424 - But people on the cryptozoology.com site say you peddle faux pics of nessie?
322

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 21:56:12
424, Can't even spell balloon. You would think he would know his own...
323

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 21:58:07
#425 Have you heard the expression tongue-in-cheek?
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Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/06/2008 21:58:19
#421 Who Knows Where The Time Goes

Sandy Denny and Fairport Convention

325

Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 21:59:51
430
Aye Willie, noticed you posted her name on Sunday too:-)
326

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 22:03:08
429. Have you heard the expression "wall paper chewing, window licking, deranged, dribbling mentalist"? I am sure you have. Now, why don't you stop abusing the name of the Loch Ness Centre (they want you to stop, its on their website), give a refund to those people you sold dodgy pics to on cryptozoology.com, stop posting anti-islamic stuff on the times and focus on your area of strenght - poo and lavvies?
327

Michelle Queen Of Scots,

Dundee 13/06/2008 22:03:10
Once again the SNP are spot on. 16 & 17 year olds pay taxes, yet they have no representation to say how these taxes are spent. They are old enough to make lifelong committments i.e. get married and they can lay down their lives for their country yet they can't vote???
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 22:03:52
#428 Sorry I have a sticky o
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 22:04:34
433. Perhaps, but is Nessie responsible for the atrociuos state of the Drumnadrochit public toilets? I hear Nessie can pebble-dash...
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13/06/2008 22:08:42
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 22:08:49

Loch Ness monster sightings down
02 October 2007 21:49:39 · by presidio9 · 45 replies · 142+ views
Associated Press ^ | October 2, 2007
Fewer people are reporting sightings of the legendary Loch Ness monster in Scotland, prompting concerns that skepticism about its existence could threaten tourism in the region. There have only been two reports of sightings this year, compared to three in 2006 and much lower than a decade ago, when the annual number sightings was consistently in the double digits, The Times newspaper said Saturday. "It's becoming a potential crisis," said Mikko Takala, 39, a founding member of the Loch Ness Monster Fan Club who runs four webcams on the lake's north shore.
332

Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/06/2008 22:09:16
#434 Richard Thomson on guitar I thik
333

,

13/06/2008 22:11:06
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Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 13/06/2008 22:13:57
#443 I've been called worse - hope they don't delete it. Drum's toilets have rights too.
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Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/06/2008 22:14:41
#477 No Dave Mattacks
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 22:15:02
Herr you can see Mikko and Lord High White Witch Kevin chatting about Nessie and how they performed a spell to hide Nessie from a Swedish paedophile....



Nessie in hideing
14:57
White Witch Kevin Carlyon performed a ceremony in 2001 to protect The Loch Ness Creature from a nutty Swedish monster hunter, which it later turned out was a paedaphile and had been in prison. Kevins spell worked too well as sightings of Nessie have dropped ever since. Here Kevin and Nessie expert Mikko Takala (who runs 'Nessie on the Net' with webcams watcing the Loch for a sighting dicuss the creature. [less]
Categories: News and Politics, VideoBlogging, Travel and Vacations
Tags: Carlyon, LochNess, Monster, Nessie, Takala, www.lochness.co.uk
Added: 9 months ago
By: Kevin
Plays: 158 | Comments: 4

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=18281686
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Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/06/2008 22:16:01
Politics are yesterday's answers to todays questions.

This is immediately understandable to 16 year olds. So they are as entitled to vote as are the rest of us, whenever we comprehend this.

The corollary is that unionist politicians of all persuasions, spottiness and stripes "need their heids examined".
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13/06/2008 22:19:00
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Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/06/2008 22:22:07
#454 Ginger Baker
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13/06/2008 22:24:06
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/06/2008 22:24:48
Mikko and the Lord High WHite witch can be seen at 10 minutes in here:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=18281686
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Conan the Librarian™,

13/06/2008 22:31:55
458
A young and spotty Dick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsyRF_i1PSs
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ThomasP,

13/06/2008 22:32:56
459 danielrober.

Putting Politics into school is actually very good.

The younger generation are now being taught how their country operates and everything else that goes into it.

and for that reason I argue that I am more qaulified then some when it comes to Politics and should have more of a right to vote then them.
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Willie Macleod,

Wick 14/06/2008 00:25:45
#463 Kent2 Sorry, I had some things to do. Just back online.

Catch up with you another time.
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14/06/2008 02:37:52
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Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 14/06/2008 08:58:29
Politics are yesterday's answers to today's questions.

Yesterday's answers were provided by free thinkers standing out from the herd, not by politicians who only exist for the moment.

Thus Politics is A: defined, B: a "cool" subject appealing to teenagers.

As to money, banking, and economics: us adults don't know what they are, the way they (don't) work, and how and why they were created. So I suppose we get the politicians we deserve.
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ThomasP,

14/06/2008 13:37:44
462 danielrober

You do an exam at the end of the year about your 'Politics' cours and can be used to enter Univeristy.

I don't mind what happens. Everything stops at 16. No longer do we get free dental once we leave school so we have to pay for it etc etc
348

Harryc,

29/06/2008 13:41:58
Well duh!! Of course the SNP will want to lower the voting age, it's a good way for them of gaining more votes from the football neds and thick Braveheart obsessionists that make up the vast majority of their support, after all at that age, most people are still too stupid to realise the difference between fictional inaccuracy and the facts.

 

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