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SNP denies meltdown as it looks for fourth-choice by-election candidate

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Published Date: 14 July 2009
THE SNP last night denied that its campaign to win Glasgow North East was in meltdown as the party started the process of trying to find a new candidate.
David Kerr, a former BBC journalist, is now the favourite to become the party's candidate after James Dornan, stepped down just days after being selected.

Mr Kerr, who was surprisingly defeated in the constituency selection meeting last week by Mr
Dornan, would become the party's fourth choice candidate.

Mr Dornan stepped down over revelations he had breached charity law by acting as a trustee for Glasgow City Council's sports and culture trust while he was bankrupt.

But his selection has brought up allegations of divisions in the party leadership with Mr Dornan understood to have been the preferred candidate of deputy first minister Nicola Sturgeon, the MSP for Govan, while Mr Kerr was understood to be First Minister Alex Salmond's choice.

And sources within the Glasgow party are said to be furious about Mr Dornan's treatment, claiming he was forced to step down by the party leadership in favour of Mr Kerr.

But, in a further twist, a source close to Mr Kerr claimed he is having second thoughts because of the bad publicity surrounding the selection and the embarrassment of losing the first time round. If this happens the party will be forced to look for a fifth choice candidate.

The fiasco holds echoes of Labour's ill-fated campaign in the neighbouring Glasgow East by-election last summer when their candidate, MSP Margaret Curran, emerged as the fifth choice following a botched selection. Mr Dornan was only nominated after another city councillor, Grant Thoms, stepped down following revelations that he was the author of a controversial blog.

The original candidate, Anne McLaughlin, stepped down when she became an MSP following the death of Bashir Ahmad.

Yesterday, Labour officials, who have chosen local activist Willie Bain to run, mocked the SNP's predicament and called on them to find a local candidate.

Labour MSP for Glasgow Springburn Paul Martin, the son of Speaker Michael Martin who is vacating the seat, said: "The SNP campaign here is in complete, meltdown.

"On Sunday they were delivering leaflets saying James Dornan was their candidate. Now they have no credibility left."

He added: "Alex Salmond has already started using the crisis to get his preferred man David Kerr in, even though he failed to win just a week ago. That really would be the mother of all stitch-ups, given that 60 per cent of their local members opposed him last time."

Following their stunning victory in Glasgow East last year the SNP was expected to put in a strong challenge in the neighbouring constituency when a by-election is eventually called.

Last night, a party spokeswoman insisted that despite the difficulties the SNP's campaign is not in meltdown.

"We are busy campaigning on the streets and knocking doors," she said. "We are getting the message out there and getting a good response from voters."

She added that the local party is expected to have another candidate in place by the end of the week.

Mr Kerr was unavailable for comment yesterday.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 July 2009 9:16 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/07/2009 00:11:19
#1/2.

Hi Rufus.............as inane as ever, I see.
2

Castaway™ ,

14/07/2009 00:11:56
Gordon Brown - It is right that the constituents of this area of Glasgow (East) have a new MP as soon as possible.2 July 2008
The Glasgow East by-election was held on 24 July 2008
3

alba nach,

Tarbert 14/07/2009 00:23:12
Bashir Ahmed sadly passed away on 6th February, that was months before there was any suggestion of a by-election.

Explain again to us how Anne McLaughlin was the first choice candidate?
4

Darien,

Panama 14/07/2009 00:26:05
"Labour MSP for Glasgow Springburn Paul Martin, the son of Speaker Michael Martin who is vacating the seat, said: "The SNP campaign here is in complete, meltdown"

The sooner Scotland is rid of all New Labour Troughing Quisling spiv bufoons the better.
5

hoblar,

14/07/2009 00:28:10
The only thing in this article that looks in meltdown is the use (again) of the term meltdown for a political party that has won over Labour consistently.

The arrogance of this paper and their rent a gob Labour nohopers quoted as usual is to believe that the game is over before the deeply troubled labour party have even had the bottle to set a date, and it will be as late as possible!

The reason for the labour party delay is very obvious to us thinking types, and if the SNP are in 'meltdown' then labour are a wee puddle on the floor.

Write off the SNP at your peril.
6

Brianwci,

14/07/2009 00:36:14
Excellent point alba nach #5.

Let the Brit Nats have their fun, they don't get much chance these days.

Meanwhile, the SNP will get on with the serious business of identifying existing support and trying to win new support from neutrals and current Labour supporters.
7

,

14/07/2009 00:36:52
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8

Fletty73,

Stirling 14/07/2009 00:37:01
What an exaggerated load of nonsense reporting.

Paul "my dad stole loads of your dosh then ran off with it" Martin, is now using the Scotsman newspaper for Labour propaganda?
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 00:37:32
I thought the suggestion of Elaine C Smith was inspired.

But why not appoint a true believer from the ranks of the cybernats?

Observer - familiar with the erria, expert in public sector housing. She would be a good candidate. Hardly ever loses her temper in debate when sober.

Frank McBride from Lusitania. Good chance of getting the important Portuguese vote.

And what about auld Donald, Scotland's version of Roderick Spode? Often coherent for tem minutes at a time!

Or Wardog? apparently banned from here but no doubt still fulminating.

10

hoblar,

14/07/2009 00:44:43
If you knew how to comment on Scotish politics, we would be amazed more like.

Stop quoting your boyfriends as candidates mate.

The astonishing arrogance of labour is a surprise to myself, thinking that an election they are scared to death of announcing is somehow in the bag.

And you, being 'dead brainy' appear to share that view, but then you are part of the dying breed of unionist that nobody can be bothered with in Scotland.

Labour could at least 'bring it on' at(the by election) rather than fondling their buttocks over the SNP candidate choice, because there will be an SNP candidate, and only dafties would write off that person.

Still, if new labour can come out from under their beds and set a date for Glasgow North, it would be a start.
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 00:54:05
I do think that one of the problems the Nationalists have is a lack of a sense of humour. #13's response to a perfectly humorous, light hearted, non malicious bit of persiflage is a perfect example. The homophobia is a bit of a surprise, though.

Maybe it comes out of being zealots. Anyone who disagrees with you is more than someone who disagrees. He or she is a quisling, a traitor, an untermensch. Your politics are serious. The party right or wrong - see the amazing defences offered of what Sandra White MSP aid about too much cricket on Sky Sports yesterday! And because those of us who disagree are as Scottish as you, it's some how worse.

So it's hard for you to talk to the rest of us without a snarl, an insult. Some of you try, but it's hard to stay civilised.

I'm not sure how well that attitude will go down in the North of Glasgow.
12

,

14/07/2009 01:00:20
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13

Castaway™ ,

14/07/2009 01:03:19
Why not select a candidate the G Brown way ?
Glasgow East by-election.
The constituency party was forced to resort to its fifth choice candidate after four senior party members refused the Prime Minister's personal pleas to stand.
And finally Gordon got the one candidate he wanted all along in his fifth choice of Margaret Curran, a local MSP. 6 Jul 2008

Which meant whoever Gordon anointed would be the candidate.
14

hoblar,

14/07/2009 01:04:31
Homophobia?

I didn't say that labour buttock fondlers were of the same sex mate, (I just used the collective term of 'labour') once again you have to make it up and presume.......just like the Glasgow by election is in the bag eh?

That is a crazily arrogant way to begin an election when Labour are in such a state of 'meltdown' that they are scred to the death of daring to set a by election date-choosing to keep it as far in the future as they can!

You are what I would call 'away with it', nobody in real life or in cyberland would take your utter dreadful guff seriously, and your attempt to discredit the sizable (biggest proprtion) of Scottish voters because they aren't supporting the frefalling dreaded kakky labour party are hilarious if a tad unsettling.

Do you include all the war veterans, those teens with their first vote, the grannies and gradads, the middle aged like myself as 'zealots'?

They are turning to the SNP because the SNP are the best choice in Scotland, and the voters are proving that by....drumroll.....voting!

You heard it here first.

Slainte etc
15

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 01:06:56
Do you include all the war veterans, those teens with their first vote, the grannies and gradads, the middle aged like myself as 'zealots'?

No, of couse not - but they aren't the kind of true believers you get posting here! And what I'm saying is that you all need to lighten up, stoop the flinging of insults, and get a bit of style, panache and elan.
16

,

14/07/2009 01:07:02
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17

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 01:08:04
I apologise if I got the homophobia wrong. It's just that I was led astray by all the homophobic language. Easy mistake to make.
18

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 01:09:46
The article states :

"Mr Dornan stepped down over revelations he had breached charity law by acting as a trustee for Glasgow City Council's sports and culture trust
*** while he was bankrupt***."

If this was true...Mr Dornan would have been ineligible to serve as a Councillor.

Even the most terminally thick of the Unionist journalists and politico's should have spotted that by now and be screaming to have him removed...The bi-election we would be speculating about would be the one for his council seat.

Mr Dornan...sue them!

The rest of you...At the bottom of the page are instructions re contacting the Press Complaints Commission.
19

hoblar,

14/07/2009 01:14:10
Ah well.

No insults for war veterans, like my father, who voted SNP then?

And you got all shirty about 'homophobia' but were too embarrassed obviously to comment further on your vacuous assumption (and mistake) that only the same sex can fondle buttocks.

Are you an example of a unionist philosopher then? lol
20

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 01:15:15
#20 Fifi la Bonbon

Never mind...You have nothing to fear...but Truth it's self.
21

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 01:21:07
#22 - There's a difference between people who vote whatever way, and with respect state their position and enter into good natured debate. And then there's the zealots, the True Believers here who fling insults and treat everyone else - even war veterans - as traitors and quislings, and less-than-Scots.

You should ask yourself what it was about the language you used that let me think you are a homophobic bigot, something you now deny. I'm happy to accept your refutation at its face value.
22

Fletty73,

Stirling 14/07/2009 01:24:29
I would also point out nobody has melted.

All SNP members are still in a solid state at circa 37 degrees centigrade.


23

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 01:28:00
Im ny experience, nationalists don't melt, they burst with a little pop.
24

hoblar,

14/07/2009 01:33:22
The comment 'buttock fondling' is a light hearted aside as a metaphor for the blatent euphoria a daftie like yourself displays because the SNP candidate stepped down.

It is, a metaphor for the excited way the Hootsman journalist who says 'SNP in meltdown'.

It refers to you and your three troll pals posting kak 50 times per article, thinking that a Glasgow election replacing a labour politician who brough unprecedented, indeed seminal (oh oh, I bet that word isn't allowed either, being as dangerous as buttock) SHAME upon the office of first speaker by being sacked, soemthing he has gone down in British history for.

I didn't deny I was a 'homophobic bigot' and care less that you 'accept it' you usless waste of space.

I know that the three token unionists here are awful and lacking any political perspective, but I didn't realise that unionists didn't know that both men AND women had buttocks!

No wonder you are so confused.

25

Edward,

14/07/2009 01:35:21
How many times can this paper recycle an old story - When Labour's mouthpiece David Maddox is involved,as many times as seen fit by Labour
26

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 01:37:20
#26

Pick that little quip up from your mentor, Dr Mengle?

You Nazi's are a laugh a minute.

27

langtonian,

uphall 14/07/2009 01:44:46
A Calman for me a Calman for me,
If you'r no a Calman y'er nae use tae me.

A vote in the spring,will be the right thing
To which Jock Thamson an Quine will vote,
An pit Referenda down backslider's throat's

An who's tae say that come the day
maybe in May, common sense will prevail,
And Holyrood tak's on a renewed lease o life
And Scotland moves on within the UK.
28

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 01:48:30
"Rufus .....as inane" as ever, I see".

Sir,how dare you?

NEW LABOURS' Rufus is INSANE, not INANE !
29

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 01:58:42
Mr Dornan stepped down over revelations he had breached charity law by acting as a trustee for Glasgow City Council's sports and culture trust while he was bankrupt.

------------

This is a lie. Dornan was not bankrupt. I sincerely hope he sues.

30

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 02:07:48
21
The Col. of Monte Cristo

Apologies for the repetition. I had not seen your post pointing out the "bankrupt" lie.

This rag goes further down the pan every day.

31

Pretzel Logic,

14/07/2009 03:20:46
SNP employing the Celtic find a manager tactics
32

Argyll on line,

Strachur 14/07/2009 05:24:05
How on earth can The Hootsman justify this non story of all time? The only thing in meltdown is the Broon Labour Party.
33

,

14/07/2009 05:48:12
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34

jockstrap,

Cyprus 14/07/2009 05:52:30
Is there a by election in Glasgow North East? When was the writ moved? Until it is, there is no candidate just potential candidates.Bet Labour wish they'd gone for an early election now.
35

donald,

glasgow 14/07/2009 06:03:20
I thought it was the Hootsmon and the Labour Party that was in meltdown with its Emmandemm Maddoxs and Martins.

The SNP are merely in a selection process, soon to be sorted, unlike the Hootsmon and the Lumpen Pairty.

Whoever the SNP choose to defeat Labour will be a step forward from the man in London tights.

Mr Dornan merely did the honourable thing. He stepped out of the way because of numpties like Maddox and son of Martin were predictably bound to go on oan on about nothing, whilst the real issues escape them. Go and look at the mess of Springburn (and the Scotsman and the Labour Party), if you can find it amongst the motorway maze and slum wilderness and ask the people, not the chosen ones, the real issues.
36

Geoff,

sa 14/07/2009 06:39:54
Good Morning all!
As a general observation it would seem that the ideal strategy for all parties fielding candidates in elections would be to make as absolutely sure as possible in private beforehand that those who seek election are eligible in every respect!
Otherwise one leaves one self open to own goals n'est pas?
37

,

14/07/2009 07:35:51
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38

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 14/07/2009 07:38:28
@42 And everyone else got even less than that. What's your point?

As for this story, am I missing something?

1st choice: Anne McLaughlin, quite reasonably stood down when she got another job.

2nd choice: Mr Dornan.

3rd choice: seems likely to be Mr Kerr.

I've scoured the article and can find no mention of anyone else. Where are "4th-choice" and "5th-choice" coming from?
39

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 07:49:22
44
"As for this story, am I missing something?"
Grant Thoms, apparently.
40

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 07:54:01
Is this story going to be run on a daily basis until the SNP win the by-election????
41

puskas,

East kilbride 14/07/2009 07:54:57
I wouldn't think the Scotsman sells well in Glasgow NE..
42

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 07:59:12
46
Mr Le Pie,
I would count on it.
43

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 07:59:43
..or at leat until Mr Pringle returns from his holidays....
44

puskas,

East kilbride 14/07/2009 08:04:20
SNP denies meltdown as it looks for 5th choice by-election candidate in july.. Topic tomorrow, next day?

November? SNP denies meltdown as it looks at 105th choice by-election candidate.

Scotsman newspaper sells record 2 copies (maybe) in Glasgow NE.

45

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 14/07/2009 08:04:47
the only thing we should be hearing from the london labour party is the date of the by-election.yes the snp have suffered a slight hiccup, but when you compare it to the whooping cough that the whole london labour party are suffering from? well? this is a safe labour seat? lets see when campaging gets under way properly which party is in meltdown, i've a feeling it will be the one that will have to bus in support from south of the border.
46

john z,

edinburgh 14/07/2009 08:10:01
Paul Martin, the son of the 'socialist' LORD MICHAEL MARTIN, the first speaker of the commons sacked in modern history, should really take watch, as he might lose his MSP seat, next time around. People of Glasgow North East are fed up with the LORD Michael Martin dynasty letting them down.

People in the constituency are seriously hacked off with the way London Labour have taken their votes for granted.

As for the 'socialist' LORD Michael Martin, he's off to join the other 700 peers in the house of Lords pig trough in London.

Labour voters in Glasgow North need to give it some thought.
47

Tynietiger,

14/07/2009 08:10:04
The latest waste of taxpayers money by Lord Foulkes (£100,000 to date on vexatious questions) in reporting Alex Salmond to the Standards Commissioner for claiming legal costs of £14,100 in respect of a matter of huge national interest when attempting to impeach Tony Blair for conducting the illegal war in Iraq is laughable but in fact underscores what is now a concerted attempt by Labour officials to deflect attention way from the real miscreants by reporting all and sundry to the Standards Commissioner.
48

Conway,

East Lothian 14/07/2009 08:10:39
I would have prefered the SNP to sort out there selection first before anouncing there candidate ,however who would have thought we would see the day that there are so many able individuals looking to stand as SNP candidates to represent Scotland at Westminster.
49

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 08:10:43
I wonder if New Labour Sleaze and Corruption's leader in the Scottish Parliament, Comrade 7% will be canvassing during the by-election???

Or will the hierarchy tell him to bu66er off and keep quiet??
50

,

14/07/2009 08:12:44
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51

Tynietiger,

14/07/2009 08:14:43
Btw Anne McLaughlin or Grant Thoms were never formal candidates for the by election.

Under SNP rules a new selection process takes place once a by election is called.

But hey don't let facts get in the way of an anti SNP story by Maddox and the North Britain newspaper.
52

john z,

edinburgh 14/07/2009 08:19:15
Are you surprised as I am to discover there are 740 peers in the house of lords - that's more than the democratically? elected MP's.

The house of lords, the biggest pig trough in London. Soon to be joined by the 'socialist' working class (?) LORD Michael Martin.

And what will he do there? Get paid lots of tax payers money, eat lots of food, get even fatter, and do b*gger all else, until he dies.

Meanwhile almost all his constituents will likely never even have a pension at all.

Good old London Labour.
53

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 08:30:58
60 john z

“Speaker” Martin’s claim to fame is that he was quite proficient at saying “Order, Order”.

Mind you, he even had to read that from a script.
54

Alasdair 1,

14/07/2009 08:33:40
Thank goodness the SNP have plenty of time to select a suitable candidate.

Labour's fearful and dishonest contempt for their constituents comes back to bite them.
55

Grahamski,

14/07/2009 08:42:00
62
"Labour's fearful and dishonest contempt for their constituents comes back to bite them."

What do you think of the cybernats' contempt for the people of Glenrothes?
56

brownlie,

14/07/2009 08:42:09
58 Grahamski

Can you name any members of the "Scottish Nazi Party"?
57

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 08:47:49
64
Can you tell your fellow nats to drag this debate into the gutter?
58

brownlie,

14/07/2009 08:54:41
66 Grahamski

Think very carefully, if you can, and tell us who, or what, are the "Scottish Nazi Party"?
59

JC1,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 08:56:10
#40 - no it would have honourable to declare his financial problems when he stood as a cooncillor or when he becane leader of the nat group. Never mind I'm sure the nats will parachute someone in. so long as they're a pal of alex who cares what the local party thinks
60

Obanite,

14/07/2009 08:57:25
This reads like a lazy journalist up against the print deadline, looking to recycle yesterday's story with two new quotes. Poor guy obviously didn't have time to proof read it first. The least he could have done is find a new angle on the story - its very boring reading the same thing two days running, whether the story is Andy Murray or Dog bites Man.

Readers may also note a story about the plight of local newspapers. Johnston Press (Scotsman's owners) are looking to refinance their enormous debt pile. They need to find a way out of an enormous hole that has seen the share price fall from £4+ to 5p and have apparently cut costs to the bone.

I don't think these two things are unconnected.
61

Melly,

Dunblane 14/07/2009 09:05:41
It is an utter disgrace that the constituency is left without representation for a period of up to 6 months. Lie-bour are cr--ping themselves and would try anything to deny the good people of Glasgow NE an MP to represent them. It shows complete contempt and I think this will turn out to haunt Lie-bour whenever the by-election takes place.
62

AIasdair,

14/07/2009 09:12:48
#63, Grahamski - by "contempt" for the people of Glenrothes you mean what?
That they overestimated their position there? Oh, that does set them aside from other parties.
They were mistaken and paid the price.

Explain to me please, precisely how that is remotely equivilent to Labour leaving the constituents of Glasgow North in a state of limbo for half a year following the embarassing fall from grace of their MP?
63

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 09:14:42
12 Thanks for your nomination Fifi but I must decline the honour.

I think they should go for Grant Thoms but there isn't a cat's chance in hell of it. Good God he's a real person and that will never do. So let's look for the nearest available cardboard cutout then.

(that's why I don't qualify Fi - well that, and not being a member of the party in question).
64

Grahamski,

14/07/2009 09:15:13
71
"Grahamski - by "contempt" for the people of Glenrothes you mean what?"
I mean by describing the electorate of Glenrothes as 'knuckle-draggers' and 'thick' for voting Labour.
Then of course they changed their narrative to the false accusations of postal fraud.....
65

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 09:16:57
68 It's quite funny all these comments about Mr Dornan being unfit for Office because he was paying his debts OFF via a trust deed. Someone should have told him you are suppose to raise debt to qualify as a politician, not get rid of it.
66

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 09:20:33
Good morning Grahamski.I'm not accusing anyone, but doesn't it seem a tad strange that the postal vote was extremely high and then the register goes missing?
Lets hope the same thing doesn't happen in Glasgow NE.
67

Miss H,

14/07/2009 09:24:03
This story is complete and utter rubbish.

It's very entertaining - but rubbish.

68

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 09:24:09
Grahamski,

What's with all the nazi stuff???

I thought you were a wee bit higher up the food chain than that???
69

,

14/07/2009 09:25:46
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70

Grahamski,

Falkrik 14/07/2009 09:26:27
75
"but doesn't it seem a tad strange that the postal vote was extremely high and then the register goes missing?"
Let's seperate those questions:

"doesn't it seem a tad strange that the postal vote was extremely high"

No, every political party was encouraging people to use them, it's alot easier now - it would be strange if they didn't go up.

"the register goes missing?"

The responsibility of keeping the register safe lay with the SNP-run council and the SNP-controlled court services. I don't find it strange at all that they failed.
71

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 09:27:20
77
Mr Le Pie,
It was a retort to the unthinking smears from your side. I woiuldn't normally indulge in mudslinging....
72

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 09:27:49
73 Grahamski

I note that you have declined to defend or justify your previous reference to the “Scottish Nazi Party”.

Who exactly did you have in mind?
73

AIasdair,

14/07/2009 09:29:20
#73, Grahamski - "the SNP" did that? Party policy was it? You're getting desperate, my dear.

Whereas.. it is a ratified Labour decision to leave Glasgow North in a state of limbo, following an embarrassing and damaging fall from grace.
Is that or is that not the case?
74

,

14/07/2009 09:31:29
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75

For Scotlands Future,

14/07/2009 09:34:43
2005 Votes 2005 Share
LAB 15,153 53.32%
NAT 5,019 17.66%
OTH 4,210 14.81%
MIN 4,036 14.20%
CON 0 0.00%
LAB Maj 10,134 35.66%

So the SNP need about an 18% swing away from Labour directly to directly, and nothing to the other parties. With the die hard Labour voters, I doubt if even the SNP can do this, and you can bet the Tories and Libs will stand here next time.

My prediction is that Labour will hold the seat, but with a slim majority. SNP's vote will rise dramatically, and the Tories and Libs will get a few percent each.

And if the SNP come within a whisker of overturning this, no doubt the Labour will call it a great victory - just like England grabbing a draw against Australia.
76

John S,

14/07/2009 09:35:03
Gordon Brown said in the House of Commons. It is right that the constituents of this area of Glasgow have a new MP as soon as possible. 2 July 2008
The Glasgow East by-election was held on 24 July 2008
77

,

14/07/2009 09:35:39
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78

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 14/07/2009 09:37:08
Sorry, should read "...directly to the SNP..."
79

BROONISDOOMED,

PITS OF HELL 14/07/2009 09:41:17
hmmmm lots of accusations of homophobia today,but what about the times when its been totaly hetrophobia on here?
hetrosexuals are called "filthy breeders",well going by that ,biology has no part ,and homosexuals just appear like magic
without hetrosexuals ,no homosexuals would be here
any way for date of byelection ask lord mandy,hes the one running the show
80

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 14/07/2009 09:41:26
#86
A little birdie tells me that a new Herald web site will be on-line by the end of this month. Should have been last month, but it was delayed. I think with the disaster that was HeraldTalk, that will be chopped, but I've no idea what will replace it.
81

Miss H,

14/07/2009 09:44:35
Incidentally Labour's 'local' candidate lives in London.

82

tommy M,

Scotland 14/07/2009 09:45:37
Dornan does the honourable thing - at least he didnae have his snout in the trough, unlike Mr Martin and his cronies.

Let us not forget the seat is vacant because of exactly that sort of snout troughing labour sleaze that this country could do without once and for all.
83

,

14/07/2009 09:52:21
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84

,

14/07/2009 09:54:47
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85

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 09:56:29
79
You would think that the postal vote would reflect the polls then, wouldn't you?
Unless of course, there was some nice young activists going around residential homes, helping the old dears to make the *right* choice.
Are there no party activists working for Fife Council?
86

mr broon,

Edinburgh 14/07/2009 09:56:45
The Nationalists have certainly got off to a badly managed start but, like all By-Elections, only the incumbent government party can throw away a large majority?

Over the coming months there will be many twists and turns in the campaign involving ALL the candidates before a clear winner emerges.

The Labour Party managers have calculated that a 6 month delay should ensure that it retains a safe seat like Glasgow North East?

However, what happens if the Government has to deal with another economic crisis, or further scandals
involving MPs?
87

Stan Butler,

14/07/2009 09:57:26

Has anyone opened a book on who the gnat candidate is going to be?

Personally I would go for Family Guy Cooncillor 'Kalashnikov' Hanif.
88

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:03:51
94
"You would think that the postal vote would reflect the polls then, wouldn't you?"
I wouldn't, I'd assume that the postal votes reflects the party who have most successfully utilised them. Your accusation or more accurately attempted smear on the old dears of Glenrothes is beneath you but only goes to show that even the lucid wing of nationalism can't quite get to grips with the fact that the SNP's message of greivance and girning was comprehensively rejected by the people of Glenrothes.
89

Rasco,

14/07/2009 10:05:59
Headline."Murphy accused of rank hypocrisy",another article about Murphy saying he would like a pilot scheme for cheap petrol for islands.Come on Maddox why nothing in this paper about this story,oh sorry its not Salmond we are talking about,a big u-turn by Spud as he has voted against this all the time.No mention on TV or any other paper on this story,read about it in the Press & journal.Lets hear your thoughts on this.
90

,

14/07/2009 10:08:48
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91

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 10:11:12
96 Stan Butler

Has the Labour candidate ever been pictured aboard a British Army tank in George Square in the same manner that Spud Murphy has been recently?

Or has the symbolism of this event totally escaped you?
92

DialMforMurdoX,

14/07/2009 10:14:36
"On Sunday they were delivering leaflets saying James Dornan was their candidate. Now they have no credibility left."

The difference of course is that the SNP have a team of people out delivering leaflets, whereas Labour have a candidate working in London and no team of people delivering leaflets.

Whenever Brown has the testicular fortitude to call this election there will be 1000 SNP supporters on the ground, proving that Springburn has a future.
93

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 10:15:03
For their sake I hope the SNP have learnt their lesson from Glenrothes.

In order to win Glasgow NE I would suggest that they refrain from calling the voters 'thick neanderthals' who 'deserve to wallow in their own filth' as some of the SNP posters on here called the voters of Glenrothes.

I would also suggest laying off the absurd conspiracy theories about vote rigging etc - it just makes them look like very sore, bitter losers - not attractive to voters

Finally I would advise Salmond to tone down the smugness and arrogance, in particular I would suggest he doesn't say 'we will win' the day before the by-election - it came back to bite him last time.
94

Stan Butler,

14/07/2009 10:15:36

We all know that there was a massive electoral fraud operation carried out at Glenrothes followed by a worldwide conspiracy to cover up the whole thing by the Brit Unionist Quisling Jewish Bolshevik Illumanutty Stonecutter Ultra Top Secret Group who rule the world.

These are the same people who shot Sandi Thom's cat.
95

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 10:19:25
100 Good morning Rab.

97 Grahamski, smearing the old dears of Fife beneath me? Not a nice image;¬)
96

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:20:19
106
Quite.
97

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 10:22:52
107 Grahamski

Who are the “Scottish Nazi Party”

98

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:23:18
108
The SNP? Never heard of them........
99

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 10:28:56
109 Grahamski,

When was the last time you saw a SNP representative aboard a British Army tank in George Square?

Are you aware of the history of British Army tanks in George Square?

Why do you think they were ever there in the first place?
100

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 10:31:27
109 I see your up to your old tricks laddie, there's a shocker.

Question for you if the SNP are in such a meltdown and Labour are so confident that there "local candidate" does he not live and work in London?

Why have they not called the by-election after all Martin did step down before Ian Gibson?
101

,

14/07/2009 10:31:32
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102

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 10:32:17
64
brownlie

"Can you name any members of the "Scottish Nazi Party"?"

He didn't? Did he?

I never thought even Grahamski would stoop so low.

103

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:37:05
111

"Are you aware of the history of British Army tanks in George Square?"

I am certainly aware of the urban myth which suggests tanks were deployed in George Square in 1919.

See myths? see nats?
104

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:38:40
112
Och, grow up.
See no idea of context? See nats?
105

,

14/07/2009 10:41:21
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106

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 10:42:24
68
JC1

"no it would have honourable to declare his financial problems when he stood as a cooncillor or when he becane leader of the nat group."

He did. You seem to be under the impression that there has been some kind of "revelation" here. You are wrong. All the information about Dornan's financial status was in the public domain. The trivial technical point for which fools such as yourself are castigating the man was so inconsequential that NOBODY noticed it.

107

AJ Fife,

14/07/2009 10:44:07
Yet more pathetic attempts to destabilise the SNP's election campaign by the ultra-unionist Scotsman.

Why do they even bother to calling it the 'Scotsman'?
108

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:46:55
120

"Why do they even bother to calling it the 'Scotsman'?"

Aye, they should call it The Quisling, eh?

See wild-eyed zoomers from the lunatic fringe? See psycho-nats?
They're a wee laugh.......
109

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 10:48:54
79
Grahamski

"...the SNP-controlled court services."

You think the SNP "controls" the Scottish Court Service!?

Yer aff yer heid!

110

BMeister,

14/07/2009 10:50:07
#120 AJ
'Why do they even bother to calling it the 'Scotsman'?'

Because 'The Guardian' was already taken?
111

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 10:50:51
#123

"You think the SNP "controls" the Scottish Court Service!?"

The Scottish Court Service are an agency of the Scottish Government.

The Scottish Government is currently the SNP - therefore the Scottish Court Services comes under their control.
112

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 10:51:03
116
A myth Grahamski? I thought it was quite well documented.
http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/redclyde/redcly025.htm

113

AJ Fife,

14/07/2009 10:53:03
Is this Grahamski character the cyber equivalent of dugshite?

114

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 10:55:06
What do you mean context?

Would you like to answer my questions.
115

brownlie,

14/07/2009 10:56:46
117 Grahamski

It is quite "grown up" and responsible to challenge you when you make offensive references to "Scottish Nazi Party". Before you make any more of your fatuous comments can you answer the question? Who, or what, is the "Scottish Nazi Party"?
116

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:57:22
126
Conan,
The myth is that tanks were in George Square in 1919. They weren't. My grandpa was though.....
117

,

14/07/2009 10:57:45
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118

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 10:58:16
125 Hello Hoonster your trying this again I see, and therefore by your argument and logic the SNP government is responsible for the lost documents.

Why do you persist in being such a hoon? Are you and Grahamski rivals for the first place in HOONVILLE?
119

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 10:58:32
125
Yeah1

You'll be aff yer heid too, then. Like the loonies who imagine Kenny MacAskill is responsible for guarding every prisoner in Scotland.

120

brownlie,

14/07/2009 10:58:32
126 Conan

Good morning, Conan, still can't post on your blog. Am I still barred?
121

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 10:58:57
129
The SNP are a nationalistic party who had unfortunate links in the thirties to fascism....
122

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 10:59:13
121
Its the purity of your natural fluids he's after.
123

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 11:00:24
135
Good morning brownlie.Are you getting an error message?
124

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:01:19
139
Brownlie is forver in error even when he's masquerading as an (ahem) unionist....
125

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:02:10
130
Grahamski,

"The myth is that tanks were in George Square in 1919. They weren't. My grandpa was though...."

Was he taking photographs of the tanks?

126

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 11:03:07
133
If you read wee bit further;
"Led to the deployment of troops and tanks on the streets of Glasgow."
127

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:03:36
142
No, he was a communist organiser fomenting revolution...
128

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:05:38
143
Conan,
Tanks rolling into George Square in 1919 is a myth. There were machine gun posts and lots of troops but no tanks.
129

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:05:51
136 Typical labour hoon!
130

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:05:51
126 Conan

I see Fife LaBonBon was complaining earlier about nat's lack of humour. She(?)'s obviously never visited your blog or indeed the hilarious Am2 or sm753's blogs.
131

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:05:54
136
Grahamski

"The SNP are a nationalistic party who had unfortunate links in the thirties to fascism...."

You are plumbing new depths here, little one. There's not many people who have to look up to George Foulkes.

132

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:07:18
144
Grahamski

"No, he was a communist organiser fomenting revolution..."

A better man than you, then.

133

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:07:47
#132

"Hello Hoonster your trying this again I see, and therefore by your argument and logic the SNP government is responsible for the lost documents."

I never said the SNP was responsible for the lost documents - it was the fault of the Scottish Court Service, an agency of the Scottish Government.

Have you learnt how to work out voting percentage yet? Have you realised that calculating vote percentage is nothing to do with the turnout? Or is it still too complicated for you to understand?
134

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:08:29
150
"A better man than you, then."
Absolutely.
135

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:09:00
144 Does anybody else see the contradiction in that?
136

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:10:24
#148

""The SNP are a nationalistic party who had unfortunate links in the thirties to fascism...."

I don't know about their links to fascism, but it is a fact that the SNP split in 1942 because they couldn't decide whether to support the war or not.

Rather unfortunate that half the SNP at the time were prepared to stand by and let the Nazis destroy Europe.

Thats what makes it so ironic when SNP posters on here call others 'quislings' or 'traitors'.
137

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 11:10:38
147
Thanks for putting me right up there with such illustrious company...
138

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:10:57
153

144 Does anybody else see the contradiction in that?

Please explain.
139

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:11:34
152
Grahamski

"Absolutely."

That wouldn't be difficult, of course. Considering the abysmal depths to which you have sunk in your lickspittle service to the unionist cause.

140

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:13:12
151 Oh I know how to work out a voting %.

Please tell the forum about how you think that turnout doesn't affect the voting % please go ahead you have the con!

Tell me hoonster does the number of folk who vote at an election affect the % vote of the parties?

Take your time.
141

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:13:39
157
Charming. Again, words fail the lunatic fringe....
142

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:14:06
136 Grahamski

Is that really your justification for your comment regarding the "Scottish Nazi Party"?
143

,

14/07/2009 11:14:56
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144

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:17:57
156 A communist fermenting revolution would be classed as a traitor in the 30's.

So it's okay for your grandfather to want to overthrow the yolk of British imperialism for a Soviet inspired rule by Stalin.

However if the the SNP want greater democracy they are Nazi's?


So do you want to answer my questions?

145

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:18:58
154
Yeah1

"I don't know about their links to fascism, but it is a fact that the SNP split in 1942 because they couldn't decide whether to support the war or not."

If you were more interested in history than propaganda lies on behalf of your Tory/BLP masters, you would know that refusing to back the war had NOTHING to do with supporting Fascism. There was a massive anti-war movement in Scotland. While some elements of the SNP were involved, this movement was principally led by the Independent Labour Party.

The "Scottish Nazi Party" slurs with which you have chosen to associate yourself are nothing more than an indication of the utter desperation among the supporters of the Uionist Alliance. A desperation which is causing them to reveal just how despicable they are.

146

Esox Hunter,

Edinburgh 14/07/2009 11:19:50
While I would refrain from using the word nazi theres no doubt that nationalism of any sort has the potential to turn toxic. It doesn't help that the very essence of nationalism is a selfish self interest which the SNP has picked up with the "Its Scotland's Oil" guff and the like. At a time when the world should be moving towards an equitable governance which sees resources shared among nations,nationalism simply takes us in the opposite direction, and the SNP brand is no different.
147

,

14/07/2009 11:20:14
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148

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:20:20
159
Grahamski

"Again, words fail the lunatic fringe...."

And yet you keep posting.

149

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:22:55
164
Esox Hunter

"...theres no doubt that nationalism of any sort has the potential to turn toxic."

A tendency which the SNP has assiduously avoided. So what's your point?

150

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:28:13
168 If that was the case he would have be held for high treason, which if convicted would have led to a death sentance.

So the answer is if MI5 did have this evidence why wasn't he?
151

,

14/07/2009 11:28:36
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152

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:29:55
164
Esox Hunter

"...and the SNP brand is no different."

You exhibit an abysmal ignorance of the SNP and its "brand" of civic nationalism.

You and your fellow propagandists for the Unionist Alliance really should take care when you start spewing these "Nazi" allegations. Bear in mind that in doing so you are insulting all those who support and vote for the SNP in a way that is not likely to be easily forgiven.

153

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 11:30:49
168,


Rufus, from your link above,

"He was one of several Nationalists who were targeted by the British secret service as enemies of the state."

Can we expect more slander and libel from Comrade Broon's dirty tricks brigade???

Dr David Kelly found out the hard way what they're like!!

PS why the new moniker????
154

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:30:50
168

Ah, Arthur Donaldson - You will be aware that William Joyce was strongly unionist. Which is just as pointless as your posting regarding Donaldson.
155

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:31:47
#158

"Tell me hoonster does the number of folk who vote at an election affect the % vote of the parties?"

No. Its the number of people who vote for each particular party that affect the vote percentage of the parties.
156

Esox Hunter,

Edinburgh 14/07/2009 11:32:13
#164 I wish I shared your confidence regarding nationalism in Scotland but reading a lot of the responses on here from so called SNP supporters I have no doubt whatsoever that some would be more than capable of crossing to the dark side if the perceived need was there, say after the electorate kick independence into touch.

Regardless we need to be moving towards a single global governance rather than breaking things down even further. Pie in the sky maybe but the only way any sense of fairness and equity will prevail.

157

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 11:33:44
From Rufus's same article,

"His internment became a cause celebre among Nationalists, who believed that it was prompted by his campaign against conscription. Donaldson was eventually released and the case against him was dropped"

Says it all really!!!
158

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:34:58
#163

"If you were more interested in history than propaganda lies on behalf of your Tory/BLP masters, you would know that refusing to back the war had NOTHING to do with supporting Fascism."

I think you misread my post. I never suggested that refusing to back the war, as half the SNP did, meant they supported fascism.

However, not backing the war did mean they were effectively standing by and allowing the Nazis to destroy Europe, as well as murdering millions of Jews.

Perhaps they thought they could be neutral and the Nazis would forget about them - maybe they wanted to establish Scotland as another Switzerland and look after the Nazis looted treasures for them.
159

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:37:32
175 Bingo! I think we've cracked it!!

Quote "No. Its the number of people who vote for each particular party that affect the vote percentage of the parties."

And what do we call the number of voters that vote in an election?
160

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:39:14
#171

"Bear in mind that in doing so you are insulting all those who support and vote for the SNP in a way that is not likely to be easily forgiven."

That sounds like a threat. Are you creating a little black book of all those who have 'insulted' the SNP? Are you planning to have all the SNP's opponents 'disposed' of when the time is right?

Perhaps if Scotland becomes independent you will make it a crime to criticise the SNP and their glorious leader?
161

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:41:10
172 Horse feather.. If he was such a threat to the state they would have tried him for high treason.

So in the one hand MI5 are saying he is a dangerous individual and on the second are not willing to prosecute because of there "agent" might be compromised.

Duplicitous b0ll0cks.
162

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:41:23
179 Groupee

If you adopt Rufus's style and stance, do not be surprised if confusion arises...
163

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:43:30
181 Yeah1

Let's get this clear. Are you really associating yourself with the contention that there is a similarity between the SNP and the Nazi Party?
164

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 11:43:49
162

156 "A communist fermenting revolution would be classed as a traitor in the 30's."

We're talking about events in 1919 not the 30s.
Do try and keep up.

"So it's okay for your grandfather to want to overthrow the yolk of British imperialism for a Soviet inspired rule by Stalin."

Stalin? In 1919?

Do try and keep up.
165

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:44:57
#180

"And what do we call the number of voters that vote in an election?"

The turnout is the total number of people who vote in an election. You do not use the turnout to work out vote percentage for each party.

As I have already proved several times, the turnout does not affect vote percentage - it is the number of voters who vote for each party that affects vote percentage.
166

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:45:35
178
Yeah1

Your insistence on trying to tar the SNP and those who support it with the brush of "Nazism" is characteristic of the utterly reprehensible behaviour of the Tory/BLP alliance and indicative of their contempt for the people of Scotland.

All grist to the mill of secession.

167

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:45:46
#184

"Let's get this clear. Are you really associating yourself with the contention that there is a similarity between the SNP and the Nazi Party?"

No, where am I suggesting that?
168

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:48:05
181
Yeah1

Your paranoid fantasies are considerably more amusing than your spittle-flecked ranting about the Scottish people being Nazis".

169

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:49:42
#187

"Your insistence on trying to tar the SNP and those who support it with the brush of "Nazism""

Where have I tarred the SNP with the brush of Nazism?

I merely pointed out that in 1942 half the SNP were opposed to the war on facisim.

This does not mean that they themselves were 'facists' or 'nazis' - it just means they were presumably prepared to be neutral and stand by whilst the Nazis ravaged Europe.
170

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:49:51
185 I do keep up all the time, you are aware that the group you were talking about the "Nazis" came to power in the 30's.

I simple switched what your said your grandfather did after the war with said group and asked you the question.

You are also aware that Stalin was part the Communist leadership in 1919?

Nice try to try and deflect I am still waiting for you to answer my questions I wonder why?
171

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:51:02
#189

"spittle-flecked ranting about the Scottish people being Nazis"."

Perhaps you could point out exactly where I have called the Scottish people Nazis?
172

,

14/07/2009 11:52:55
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173

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:53:03
190 Yeah1

Why did you feel it necessary to "merely" point that out?
174

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 11:56:08
192
Yeah1

You're squirming now. But you are fooling no-one. You chose to join with that other piece of unpleasantness, Grahamski, in dragging out the old "Nazi" slur against the SNP. Only when it is pointed out that you thereby slander a substantial part of Scotland's population do you start to desperately back-pedal.

Despicable AND cowardly!

175

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 11:56:20
185 Grahamski,

How would you care to explain the following matter of public record:

“Photograph showing tanks and soldiers billeted in the Saltmarket area of Glasgow in the weeks following the battle of George Square on 31 January 1919.

Government fears over heightened political and industrial tensions following the battle of George Square led to the deployment of troops and tanks on the streets of Glasgow.

An estimated total of 10,000 English troops were sent to Glasgow in the immediate aftermath of the battle of George Square. This was in spite of a full battalion of Scottish soldiers being stationed at Maryhill barracks in Glasgow at the time.

No Scottish troops were deployed, with the government fearing that fellow Scots, soldiers or otherwise, would go over to the workers' side if a revolutionary situation developed in Glasgow. English troops were transported from England and stationed in Glasgow specifically to combat this possible scenario

A night of further rioting followed which resulted in the Army being called to assist the Police. By the following morning, tanks were deployed in George Square and machine gun crews occupied the roofs of the buildings overlooking it. There was no further trouble.”

176

,

14/07/2009 11:58:00
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177

FM in Dundee,

14/07/2009 11:58:45
Yeah1

"I merely pointed out that in 1942 half the SNP were opposed to the war on facisim."

Simply not true. The vast majority of SNP members and supporters supported the war against fascism. The SNP has always been an anti-fascist party.
178

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 11:58:56
186 The only thing you have proven is your inbuilt stupidness hoonster.

What you seem to fail to grasp is that turnout affects the % vote each party gets.

You either know this and are trying to cover your major faux pas or are indeed thick as pig shoite which is it?

Calculating the % vote for each party is done by counting up each vote for that party YES?

So doesn't the amount of voters who "turnout" and vote for those parties affect there % vote?

I'll ask again does the number of voters who "turnout" and vote at an election decide on the % vote of each party?

Yes or No?
179

brownlie,

14/07/2009 11:59:20
196 dunedin bully wee

Strangely enough, troops were deployed on the streets of London shortly before the Iraq invasion. This was necessary to convince the public that an imminent attack was only 45 minutes away.
180

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 11:59:49
#195

"You're squirming now. But you are fooling no-one. You chose to join with that other piece of unpleasantness, Grahamski, in dragging out the old "Nazi" slur against the SNP. Only when it is pointed out that you thereby slander a substantial part of Scotland's population do you start to desperately back-pedal."

The only squirming here is by you - you have stated that I have called the SNP and the Scottish people 'Nazis' - when I asked for evidence of this you were unable to provide me with it.

If I have called either the SNP or the Scottish people 'nazis' please show me proof of it - otherwise I expect an apology for your slanderous accusations.
181

,

14/07/2009 12:01:23
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182

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 12:01:37
185
Grahamski

"Stalin? In 1919?"

Stalin was already a prominent figure in the Communist leadership by 1919.

183

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 12:02:45
#199

"Calculating the % vote for each party is done by counting up each vote for that party YES?"

Yes and then dividing it by the total number of voters.

"So doesn't the amount of voters who "turnout" and vote for those parties affect there % vote?"

Yes the number of people who vote for each party obviously affects each parties vote percentage, which is what I have said all along.

"I'll ask again does the number of voters who "turnout" and vote at an election decide on the % vote of each party?"

No. The total turnout at an election is not used to decide the vote percentage of each party.

The turnout could be very high or very low it doesn't matter - it is the number of votes each party gets from that turnout that affects their vote percentages.
184

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 12:02:46
196
Public record?
What's your source?
185

Allan(handofgod137),

14/07/2009 12:02:47
#195 You had no problem accusing the scots who voted BNP of being nazis.
186

Ewan M,

14/07/2009 12:03:30
The SNP are NOT in meltdown yet are on their fourth candidate....pull the other one!

In the meantime Alex Salmond is abusing the expenses system AGAIN while telling party colleagues he is a distant relation of William Wallace, Rabbie Burns and Jesus. Oh and looks like Sean Connery in his hey day as James Bond, and they say he is egotistical!!!

187

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 12:05:35
201
Yeah1

The damage is done. You have chosen to associate yourself with the most despicable elements of the Tory/BLP alliance. The taint will remain with you.

188

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 12:06:42
203
"Soviet inspired rule by Stalin"

Stalin was not ruling the Soviet Union in 1919, believe me. Perhaps you should investigate with a little more depth than a cursory glance at Wiki, eh?
189

,

14/07/2009 12:07:24
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Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/07/2009 12:07:45
209
Errant handle states:

"The taint will remain with you"

pompous, moi?
191

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 12:11:21
207
Allan(handofgod137)

"You had no problem accusing the scots who voted BNP of being nazis."

That's because the BNP is a neo-Nazi party with neo-Nazi leaders. Duh-uh!

192

,

14/07/2009 12:12:14
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,

14/07/2009 12:13:37
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,

14/07/2009 12:14:10
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Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 12:14:24
210
Grahamski

"Stalin was not ruling the Soviet Union in 1919, believe me. Perhaps you should investigate with a little more depth than a cursory glance at Wiki, eh?"

What a pity you were not so concerned with truth and historical accuracy when you started spewing your hateful krap about the Scottish people supporting Nazis.

196

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/07/2009 12:14:24
206 Grahamski,

Try this link.

The Glasgow Police Museum.
(Not known for their SNP sympathies).

http://gphs1800.tripod.com/Directory.gif

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14/07/2009 12:16:15
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 12:16:38
210 So in the period of the nazi rule was Stalin leader yes he was.

So tell me hoonster what is the difference in what you said your grandfather did in 1919 compared to what the nazi's did in the 30's?

And how then do you use the "Nazi" slur against a democratic party in 2009?

So again nice try, again not answering any questions how telling?
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14/07/2009 12:19:44
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 12:22:30
221
Going Nova?
201

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 12:23:14
#209

"The damage is done."

What damage? Exactly where have I called either the SNP or the Scottish people 'nazis' as you suggested?

Why are you unable to back up your accusations with any proof?

The only damage done here is to your reputation as a serious poster - if you make accusations you need to have proof to back them up.

The taint of being a liar will now remain with you.
202

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14/07/2009 12:25:31
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,

14/07/2009 12:27:07
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 12:27:29
224
Are you a hospital porter?
205

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 12:27:51
205 Christ hoonster spinning like a mad one, for two days now you have been saying that turnout does not effect the % vote a party gets.

Yes I know how the % vote is calculated

And now something different you do take the cream cracker honestly
206

Brianwci,

14/07/2009 12:32:42
The SNP has caused major shocks in the past by winning Glasgow seats...or should I say 'seat' twice. But they turned out to be false dawns for breakthroughs in this most important city for the SNP.

If David Kerr decides not to accept the nomination the SNP should think in terms of a big hitter along the lines of Jim Sillars for example, around which the entire party could unite to provide a major shock to the British Nationalist establishment in Scotland as the SNP win yet another Glasgow seat within the same Westminster parliament and so close to a General Election.
207

Brianwci,

14/07/2009 12:34:27
Bearing in mind Scottish Independence will not be achieved without Glasgow, this most important of Scottish cities.
208

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 12:42:09
More solid serious reporting from the North Britman.

I know they like to recycle articles from other news sources as they do often in a cut and paste from other websites but I did not think they were scraping the barrel and running the same story with the same quotes two days in a row.

If the SNP are in meltdown. What do you call the state of the Labour party in Scotland, The Tory Party in Scotland or the other unionist party.

The northbrit would make Lord Haw Haw blush.
209

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 12:42:32
You must be a bit older than I thought you were Grahamski. My granda wasn't old enough to be a communist organiser, being a mere boy at the time.

So, what - do you get a get a free bus pass then ?

I thought the urban myth was that they put tanks on the roof of the City Chambers. I could never understand how they were supposed to have got them up there !

Anyway the facts are that they confined the Scottish troops to barracks and brought English troops here. For what that historical footnote is worth.
210

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 12:42:44
Electric Hermit:

I am shocked - I thought you opposed BNP-like policies?

Why are you suggesting that once Scotland becomes independent only 'true blood' Scots should be allowed to remain, and that all 'immigrants' should be 'removed' or 'disposed of'?

Those sort of comments will taint you forever.
211

,

14/07/2009 12:43:28
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 12:43:58
230 It doesn't he uses the "Nazi" tag when he loses the argument.

He said his Grandfather was a communist revolutinary in 1919, which he argues is okay, but it's not okay to want scottish independence in fact those who do are "nazis"
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 12:44:51
#230

"My father was a supporter of Scottish self determination and spent 5 years in a German P.O.W Camp fighting Hitler's finest, how does this square with Quisling Grahamski's thesis?"

Presumably then your father was from the half of the SNP that supported the war? Good on him.
214

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 12:45:07
232 Were the Scottish soldiers in Maryhill barracks?
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,

14/07/2009 12:45:19
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Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 12:48:30
230Richard, West Lothian 14/07/2009 12:39:48
I see Grahamski is up to his old tricks of slurring true Scottish patriots of fascism.

My father was a supporter of Scottish self determination and spent 5 years in a German P.O.W Camp fighting Hitler's finest, how does this square with Quisling Grahamski's thesis?

===========================================

Grahamski has no intention of spouting fact. He is a daft wee commie living in the socialist republic of his bedroom at his mums house.

Using the deaths of our grandparents to score some cheap political point about politics is the measure of the unionist.

Nothing is more important than the Union and Party.

All the people of this Island fought to preserve freedom for others and themselves. It had nothing to do with their preference for self government.
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 12:50:28
''He is a daft wee commie living in the socialist republic of his bedroom at his mums house.''

Excuse me! There is no evidence to support the description of Grahamski as socialist.



218

Obanite,

14/07/2009 12:50:32
NOVA ALBION 103 - You're threats are quite alarming.

I'm concerned and have reported you. I hope The Scotsman take action to bar you completely, as you clearly don't know how to behave in a civilised way.
219

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 12:51:48
237 Yes, they were confined there. That is not a myth.
220

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 12:54:05
#239

"All the people of this Island fought to preserve freedom for others and themselves. It had nothing to do with their preference for self government."

Not quite all the people of this Island - half the SNP were opposed to the war on facism, as were various other groups.
221

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 12:55:55
242 I barely remember it from reading a book ages ago and that something happened with the Maryhill barracks.

Well there you go.

British Democracy in the style of Pax Britannica!
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 12:56:35
#243

"True, Grahamski, Yeah 1 and their ilk are just dissembling unionist cyphers"

Why are you associating me with being a unionist?

Just because I don't like the SNP?

It may be difficult for you to understand but not everyone in Scotland shares your fanatical, cultish devotion to the cause (for and against) of independence.

Not everyone who dislikes the SNP is automatically a 'unionist' or labour supporter, just as not everyone who dislikes labour is automatically in favour of independence or an SNP supporter.
223

,

14/07/2009 13:00:21
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 13:02:44
Indeed unfortunately for yourself your postings read like the Fox News Channel style of narrative, they use terms like "Some might say" whilst this is what you wrote quote"Where have I tarred the SNP with the brush of Nazism?

I merely pointed out that in 1942 half the SNP were opposed to the war on facisim.

This does not mean that they themselves were 'facists' or 'nazis' - it just means they were presumably prepared to be neutral and stand by whilst the Nazis ravaged Europe."

How do you know that and please note the final part of the sentance.

Some might say you are a complete and utter hoon, I am more honest and say you are one.

Spot the difference?
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 13:06:35
249 was for hoonster yeah1
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JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 14/07/2009 13:08:16
Personally I think the SNP's previous candidate should have been allowed to stand. He wasn't actually bankrupt so had done nothing wrong.

However it sounds like the party has other good candidates available and whoever stands for the SNP will put Scotland first which will make a sharp contrast with Labour no matter what happens.
227

Obanite,

14/07/2009 13:12:07
NOVA ALBION 103 - As I said previously, you are clearly the one that needs help - your rude and agressive tone reveals you.
228

Obanite,

14/07/2009 13:12:44
(@241, for 247)
229

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 14/07/2009 13:14:09
#249

Oh dear, you really need to get a bit more up to date old bean! These kinds of daft slurs on the NPS were current in the 30's (and unfounded even then!) but I think you will find that as many nationalists as unionists fought and died in the second world war to defeat Hitler. After all 2 million Scots signed the Covenant in the 1950's even though it was ignored by our friends in London.

Luckily Winnie Ewing was on her way to shake things up later.

Show a bit respect for your own ancesters and give this drivel a rest. It diminishes debate to reduce it to this level.

As a bit of political 101 you might want to consider that both Britain and Nazi Germany were imperial nationalists, and that even though Hitler claimed he was a socialist he wasn't really one!

Also Gandhi was a nationalist...
230

brownlie,

14/07/2009 13:19:35
246 Yeah1

"not everybody who dislikes the SNP is automatically a unionist"

Not many "Green voters" display such a virulent dislike for the SNP but seem to be unable to be critical of the other parties. Not many "Green voters" would repeat ad nauseam the contention that half the SNP, whatever that means, were opposed to the war on fascism. Not many "Green voters" would attempt to bolster Grahamski contention regarding the Scottish Nazi party.

You refer to serious posters in a self-righteous, holier than thou, manner. Do you consider posters who find it necessary to use more than one moniker to be serious posters?
231

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14/07/2009 13:28:27
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 13:54:30
#249

"your postings read like the Fox News Channel style of narrative, they use terms like "Some might say""

Where have I used 'some might say' or any other similar terms?

"How do you know that and please note the final part of the sentance."

How do I know what? That the SNP split in 1942 because half of them were opposed to the war? Or that this meant they would stand by and allow the Nazis to ravage Europe?
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 13:56:36
#254

"These kinds of daft slurs on the NPS were current in the 30's (and unfounded even then!) but I think you will find that as many nationalists as unionists fought and died in the second world war to defeat Hitler."

Yes many of the Scots who fought in the war on facism were nationalists, and well done to them.

However it is not a 'daft slur' that the SNP split in 1942 because they could not decide whether to support the war or not - that is a proven fact.
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 13:59:23
#255

"Not many "Green voters" display such a virulent dislike for the SNP but seem to be unable to be critical of the other parties."

Look back through my postings - you will see plenty of occasions I have been extremely critical of the BNP, Labour and other parties.

"Not many "Green voters" would attempt to bolster Grahamski contention regarding the Scottish Nazi party."

Where have I 'bolstered' his contention? Where have I suggested the SNP are 'nazis' or are the 'Scottish Nazi Party'?

You are as bad as Electric Hermit - making accusations with no proof whatsover to back them up - your credibility is gone.
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Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 14:00:10
#257 Yeah1,

Who was that chappie who was always idolising Hitler in the 30s and 40s???

I believe he was a Royal.

I can't quite remember his name.

As you seem to be the history expert on these boards could you tell me who this Royal chappie was???
236

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 14:03:31
257Yeah1, 14/07/2009 13:54:30
#249

"your postings read like the Fox News Channel style of narrative, they use terms like "Some might say""

Where have I used 'some might say' or any other similar terms?

"How do you know that and please note the final part of the sentance."

How do I know what? That the SNP split in 1942 because half of them were opposed to the war? Or that this meant they would stand by and allow the Nazis to ravage Europe?

=========================

The Scottish independence movement are one of the few organisations that stood up to the Germans invading the first time round via the Royal Family.
237

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 14:06:16
#260

"Who was that chappie who was always idolising Hitler in the 30s and 40s??? I believe he was a Royal. I can't quite remember his name."

Edward I believe you are referring to? Yes he visited Nazi Germany In 1937 I think it was.

Why? Is that supposed to upset me or something? I hate the royals - I'm a republican.
238

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 14:12:22
Yeah1,

Thanks for that. Purely for research!!
239

Idi Amin,

14/07/2009 14:18:50
SNP is in meltdoon. Aye right.

Liebore melted doon long ago.
240

,

14/07/2009 14:21:05
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Stuntman Mike,

14/07/2009 14:21:43
The SNP really is doing the cause of Nationalism in Scotland no favours with all this infighting. There again, Nationalism's been getting a lousy press throughout history (not just from the Scotsman in recent years), so I doubt if the travails of the Nats in Scotland amount to a hill of beans…
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,

14/07/2009 14:22:23
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 14:23:18
#263

"involved two individuals over devolution as opposed to self determination FACT."

Perhaps rather than relying on that 'reliable' source of facts Wikipedia you should read a book called 'The National Movement in Scotland' By Jack Brand.

In particular page 239:

"By the beginning of the war there were various tensions within the SNP. These built up to the split of 1942. First of all there was the tension which existed over the war. A vigorous minority was against it and got a great deal of publicity through the Scots Neutrality League"

Also you would discover that the split involved far more than just 'two individuals':

"The 1942 conference was a major event in the history of nationalism. It split the movement almost in two."

Now the 1942 split was also over leadership issues, and the argument of home rule v independence, but the issue of supporting the war or not was a prominent factor in the split.
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,

14/07/2009 14:23:52
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Stuntman Mike,

14/07/2009 14:25:05
#271: how's it hanging, Fakey/Ford Transit?
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Yeah1,

14/07/2009 14:29:07
#266

"You've already shot your credibility with being a stranger to the truth FACT!"

I base my facts on information obtained from books, and official publications - you base your 'facts' on information you get from Wikipedia - I would suggest you are the one who has no credibility.

"and the anonymity of your moniker, why would anyone take you seriously?"

So you are suggesting anyone with an anonymous monikor should not be taken seriously?

That would immediately rule out most of your fellow SNP supporters on here, including Electric Hermit, Scottish and Proud, Jimmy Le Pie, Brownlie, Dunedin Bully Wee and Sgian Achlais.
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,

14/07/2009 14:29:24
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Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 14:38:25
270Yeah1, 14/07/2009 14:23:18
#263

"involved two individuals over devolution as opposed to self determination FACT."

Perhaps rather than relying on that 'reliable' source of facts Wikipedia you should read a book called 'The National Movement in Scotland' By Jack Brand.

==============================================

So the entire charges were based on a nameless witness who provided the details to an MI5 agent. No evidence was ever produced and no charges ever brought. Instead the Unionist tried to paint the Independence movement as Nazi Sympathisers. Not much change in strategy.

Who was this great MI5 Officer......

"Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Charles Brooman-White (known as Dick Brooman-White, 16 February, 1912 – 25 January, 1964) was a British journalist, intelligence agent and politician.

only son from a military family (his mother was a Texan), Brooman-White was educated at Eton and Trinity College, Cambridge."

At the outbreak of the Second World War, Brooman-White was mobilised as a Second Lieutenant in the Dunbartonshire Light Anti-Aircraft unit, Royal Artillery(.....a few months later....) In 1940 he resigned his commission due to ill-health.(***Typical Brit Nat Getting others to fight their wars***)

From 1940 he was a desk officer for the Security Service; in June 1940 he was put in charge of a new section of MI5 which looked at "Celtic movements". His normal work was as head of section B1(g) which dealt with Spanish espionage.

Who
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,

14/07/2009 14:40:29
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 14:41:06
257 Hoonster you obviously have a problem reading don't you!

quote "#249

"your postings read like the Fox News Channel style of narrative, they use terms like "Some might say""

Where have I used 'some might say' or any other similar terms?

So when I wrote FNC uses terms like "some might say" that confused you then! Numpty.

They are not brave enough to actually say that so they use a term like "some might say", just like yourself who isn't brave enough to say the SNP are nazis so instead you use the narrative

"How do I know what? That the SNP split in 1942 because half of them were opposed to the war? Or that this meant they would stand by and allow the Nazis to ravage Europe?"

So by default of your narrative anybody who was opposed to the war on various grounds be it political or religous are Nazis.
251

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 14:41:40
#275

Excellent so now you are admitting that your own so-called 'facts' are incorrect?

You stated that the 1942 split:

"involved two individuals over devolution as opposed to self determination FACT"

You are now appearing to accept that in actual fact it was almost half the party.

Are you also accepting that the split did not just occur over 'devolution' but was also because of a disagreement over whether to support the war or not?
252

,

14/07/2009 14:43:50
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Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 14:45:31
"Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Charles Brooman-White **CONT**

In 1941, Brooman-White met with an informant who told him that Arthur Donaldson, leader of the Scottish National Party, intended in the event of a Nazi invasion of Britain, to form a puppet government along the lines of Vidkun Quisling in Norway. This information led Brooman-White to successfully recommend Donaldson's detention under Defence Regulation 18B. In 1943 he rejoined the Army as a Second Lieutenant in the Intelligence Corps and later rose to the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel.

Brooman-White was head of the Italian section of MI6 in 1943, and was later moved into the field where he served in the Mediterranean and then in North-Western Europe. After fighting the 1945 general election against James Maxton in Glasgow Bridgeton, he worked from 1946 to 1947 as an attaché at the British embassy in Istanbul, Turkey.

Parliament

Defeated at Rutherglen in the 1950 general election, Brooman-White narrowly won the same seat in the 1951 election. He was immediately picked by James Hutchison, the Under-Secretary of State for War, to be his Parliamentary Private Secretary. He accompanied Hutchison on some of his ministerial visits. Brooman-White's maiden speech, made in July 1952, concerned the steel industry and he declared that neither Karl Marx nor Adam Smith would be helpful in working out a long-term future for the industry. He made a specialism of the steel industry throughout the Parliament.


Ministerial office

Loyal to the government over the Suez crisis, Brooman-White became an unpaid Assistant Whip when Harold Macmillan became Prime Minister in January 1957; from October he was a paid whip as a Lord Commissioner of the Treasury. He was promoted again in June 1960 to be Vice-Chamberlain of the Household.

In a reshuffle in October 1960, Brooman-White became Under-Secretary of State for Scotland. He dealt with education and home affairs, and had to deal with a strike by Scottish teachers
254

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 14:45:44
#277

"With the SNP forming part of the” Green Alliance” within the Euro parliament, was your wasted vote against them not therefore a vote in favour of the anti-green lobby?"

Firstly you need to understand that anyone voting for parties other than the SNP is not voting 'against' the SNP but is infact voting FOR the other parties.

Secondly are you really trying to suggest that voting for the Green party is 'a vote in favour of the anti-green lobby'? - you are even more deluded than I thought...
255

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 14:47:29
"Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Charles Brooman-White **CONT**

Ministerial office

Loyal to the government over the Suez crisis, Brooman-White became an unpaid Assistant Whip when Harold Macmillan became Prime Minister in January 1957; from October he was a paid whip as a Lord Commissioner of the Treasury. He was promoted again in June 1960 to be Vice-Chamberlain of the Household.

In a reshuffle in October 1960, Brooman-White became Under-Secretary of State for Scotland. He dealt with education and home affairs, and had to deal with a strike by Scottish teachers in 1961 over low pay and proposals to allow non-graduate male teachers. Brooman-White suffered poor health in 1963 and announced his resignation on 9 December, dying a month later.

=====================================

Not your average MI5 officer in Scotland then. Nothing suspect about his Elitist Unionist. I imagine many of the people in his area went to Eton then onto Trinity College and into the Government.

Lets be fair the British state has never used underhand deception to manipulate people.....Yeah1
256

hoblar,

14/07/2009 14:49:16
"Tanks rolling into George Square in 1919 is a myth. There were machine gun posts and lots of troops but no tanks."

Yes, machine guns and lots of troops.

No troops were allowed from Scottish regiments though.

All in all, the desperado quoted above has indeed described a very proud moment in British history then, where most of the protesters in Glasgow were those who had actually managed to survive World War I on behalf of old blighty.

Tsk tsk.
257

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 14:51:54
#278

"just like yourself who isn't brave enough to say the SNP are nazis"

Why would I say the SNP are nazis when they quite clearly aren't?

"So by default of your narrative anybody who was opposed to the war on various grounds be it political or religous are Nazis."

Er....no. Where on earth did I say that? If you are opposed to the war that doesn't make you a nazi - it just means you aren't prepared to stand up to the nazis - like Switzerland for example.

The Swiss were neutral but that didn't make them nazis - they were just prepared to stand by while the nazis invaded most of the rest of Europe.
258

Cormacksdad,

Dunfermline 14/07/2009 14:58:03
204
Group Captain Lionel Mandrake

Thanks for the Godwins Law spotting. All the way through reading this tedium I was trying to think of the name.

I can only surmise that this down to the non-story recycled by lazy hootsman journos.
259

Stuntman Mike,

14/07/2009 14:59:23
#274: " SNP are Nazis cos some objected to WWII - FACT!"

There one of the few parties which, when mentioned, often cause people to make an inappropriate salute, let's put it that way…
260

Stuntman Mike,

14/07/2009 15:07:09
#290 Richard: # : it's a two finger salute, similar to that used by cub scouts. Who says butter wouldn't melt…
261

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 15:08:02
#285 Richard:

Are you one of those people who comes on here pretending to be an SNP supporter to try to make them look stupid?

Firstly you get your 'facts' from Wikipedia.

Secondly you claim only 2 individuals were involved in the 1942 split - I prove you wrong

Thirdly you claim the split was only over a devolution argument - again I prove you wrong

Finally you also suggest anyone with an anonymous monikor should not be taken seriously - discrediting virtually every one of your fellow SNP posters in one go.

Embarassing....
262

The Dark Side,

14/07/2009 15:12:54
#288 Stuntman: Nationalism was a popular concept in the early Boy Scout movement, right enough…
263

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 15:17:54
#293

"Interesting that Yeah1 believes "evidence" by the British establishment used to denigrate and slur the S.N.P."

What 'evidence' do I supposedly believe?
264

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 15:18:20
286 Indeed so why are using narrative that implies that?

Many people from all political parties and none did not support the war, many helped out as UXB and combat medics for example.

So why are you saying that the SNP or half did not support the war and therefore were quite happy to allow Hitler free reign?

As I said many people and none were not in favour of any war Quakers for example, how many those were members of other political parties?

So if they joined the tories or labour, using your criteria they also were in favour of letting Hitler walk over Europe?

How many members did the SNP have in 1942, how many were in the forces?

How many were registered as objectors?

265

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 15:21:02
Okay I think its time to put this argument over the SNP's 1942 split to rest, its getting boring.

Lets leave it at:

1. The SNP split in 1942, partly because a number of them were opposed to the war.

2. This does not make them 'nazis' - it just means those opposed to the war weren't prepared to stand up to the nazis

3. The SNP have no connection to the nazis whatsoever, apart from the fact they both have 'national' in their respective names
266

,

14/07/2009 15:25:38
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The Dark Side,

14/07/2009 15:32:34
#299 Yeah1: #142 Yeah1: " The SNP have no connection to the nazis whatsoever, apart from the fact they both have 'national' in their respective names"

You're being a bit contradictory here. The fact that they're both Nationalist parties (albeit at very different extremes of the spectrum) is a connection, however tenuous…
268

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 15:33:48
#300

"I'm still waiting for your answer to my #289?"

I'm still waiting for you to admit you were wrong about the SNP split only involving 2 individuals and wrong about the split only being over devolution?

As for #289 - no the SNP is not the same as the Scots Neutrality, but whats that got to do with anything?

The SNP still split in 1942, in part because some of them were opposed to the war.
269

brownlie,

14/07/2009 15:35:28
259 Yeah1

Where did you attempt to bolster Grahamski's posting?

I should imagine that most readers will reach that conclusion by noting your bringing up your mistaken belief that half the SNP refused to fight in the war against fascism when by your own admission it was only a "minority" who refused to do so.

Your expertise as an electional pundit should have demonstrated to you that half is not a minority or vice versa.

Even if you were factually correct it has no relevance to the modern day SNP so why bring it up other than to bolster Grahamski's nonsense?

As for my credibility I have always used my own name when posting and have never, unlike your good self, had to use another moniker to add weight to, or applaud, any of my postings on this site.

I find it quite amusing that you have classed my surname as being anonymous when listing anonymous postings on this site.
270

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 15:36:42
#297

"So why are you saying that the SNP or half did not support the war and therefore were quite happy to allow Hitler free reign?"

Er...because its true.

If you don't support a war that generally means you don't want to take part in it - therefore you don't want to stand up to the nazis, therefore you are effectively allowing them to ravage the rest of Europe
271

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 15:41:23
#305

"Even if you were factually correct it has no relevance to the modern day SNP so why bring it up other than to bolster Grahamski's nonsense?"

I already stated in #299 that it has no relevance to the modern SNP.

I brought it up to point out the irony of some SNP posters on here referring to others as 'quislings' and 'traitors' when infact members of their own party refused to support the war on facism in the 1940s.

"As for my credibility I have always used my own name when posting"

As I have I. If you have proof otherwise please provide it?
272

,

14/07/2009 15:43:43
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273

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 15:51:20
306 You are still trying to push this nonesense hoonster as Brownlie has pointed out at 305.

Many members of all political parties and none were against the war, you have repeatedly said half the SNP did not support the war.

How many members at that time were objectors? How many were in the forces I would like a number please.

Going on your performance over the last few days I'll be waiting a wee while.
274

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 15:57:19
310 How do you know RTF wasn't deleted by the hootsman IT team?

I don't know what moniker RTF is using these days.
275

Stuntman Mike,

14/07/2009 15:58:51
#305 Brown One: "As for my credibility I have always used my own name when posting and have never, unlike your good self, had to use another moniker to add weight to, or applaud, any of my postings on this site."

You wouldn't know anything about "Union is Best" (before his unfortunate demise), then?
276

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 15:58:55
308 More like a member of the aristocrisy or royal family.
277

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 16:01:29
306Yeah1, 14/07/2009 15:36:42
...If you don't support a war that generally means you don't want to take part in it - therefore you don't want to stand up to the nazis, therefore you are effectively allowing them to ravage the rest of Europe

======================================

I do not support Westminster rule but I still take part in the battle for places. My preference would be to not be involved at all with Westminster but I must to my duty after making my feeling heard.

Many, many men from my family have served in the armed forces and most of them are Nationalists. It comes with the territory in the Highlands. They may not have wished to be involved in another War especially after WW1 when entire towns had all their young men killed.

After the great war you would be a fool not to question the reasoning behind such wars. It is never of benefit to those who do the fighting.

I suppose the political elite like the Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Charles Brooman-White with all of a few months of active service in the Home Guard, a chest full of medals for battles he never fought, safe from the trenches and bloody battle fields can question the moral fibre of those with sons and daughters on the front line.

The British state expected the immediate and unquestioned support of the Scottish population to protect the South East from Invasion. After the previous 150 years of oppression I am not surprised they are least had a discussion about it.

We can all look back now and know it was the right action to fight the Germans but all the facts were not on the table at the time.

Reading the like of Yeah1 and his pathetic spinning makes me remember why we are better independent and rid of the Westminster political games and double speak.

Spineless little runts that actively participate and vehemently support foreign government have the utter affront to question the wishes of veterans of WW1 asking questions about dying in WW2.

Slide away back to yo
278

,

14/07/2009 16:02:02
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,

14/07/2009 16:02:06
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:02:27
On the actual story if Labour actually thought that then why haven't they called the by-election?

Why the long wait, surely waiting until November for the good folk of North East Glasgow is an insult and undemoratic?
281

brownlie,

14/07/2009 16:04:00
307 Yeah 1

You claim to use your own name when posting. Are you seriously suggesting that your name is Yeah1?

You were caught out on a previous occasion on this forum using another moniker as well as Yeah1. If you really want to embarass yourself I can find the entries. Would you like me to do so?
282

The Master 2,

14/07/2009 16:05:27
#307 Yeah1: "If you don't support a war that generally means you don't want to take part in it - therefore you don't want to stand up to the nazis, therefore you are effectively allowing them to ravage the rest of Europe"

Similarly, the modern Nats are implicitly condoning the actions of a dictator who was a threat to his neighbours and committed genocide on his own people by all their ranting about the "illegal" war in Iraq. The Nats make me sick, they really do!
283

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:07:13
319 I have no idea what was in his post?
284

brownlie,

14/07/2009 16:07:22
312 Stuntman Mike

You flatter me. Thanks for that but I'm sure Union is Best would be deeply insulted. Incidentally great play on my name by addressing me as Brown One (lol).
285

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:09:38
320 Zimbabwe? Dhafur? Burma?
286

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14/07/2009 16:09:53
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287

brownlie,

14/07/2009 16:10:48
320 Mastur

"The Nats make me sick .....". Not as sick as the hundreds of innocents killed and maimed in Iraq, I'll bet.
288

brownlie,

14/07/2009 16:12:52
324 Stan Butler

The word "were" in your last paragraph makes your statement completely irrelevant. No change there, then.
289

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:12:55
324 According to whom MI5?? if that was the case they would have been charged with High Treason.

If not why not?
290

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 16:13:17
#320 Mastur...,

I'm sure the family of the late Dr David Kelly will agree with you??
291

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:13:52
320 Remind me Master what was the strategic reason for the war in Iraq?
292

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 16:14:54
#324 Stan,

You said,

"They were in effect pimping themselves as potential Quislings."

But how can show us how to really do it eh??
293

,

14/07/2009 16:16:05
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294

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 16:16:42
#309

"You are still trying to push this nonesense"

So its nonsense that the SNP split in 1942 in part because they couldn't decide whether to support the war or not? The book I quoted was completely making it up was it?

"Many members of all political parties and none were against the war"

Yes I know - I have never said that it was only the SNP who were against the war. As I have previously stated several times, many nationalists fought and died in the war.

As I have also previously said, there were several other groups opposed to the war, it was not just members of the SNP.

The only reason I mentioned the SNP is the fact that several SNP posters on here repeatedly refer to others as 'quislings' or 'traitors' - I was highlighting the irony of this.
295

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:18:47
And can anybody tell what in the hell are young men dying for in Afghanistan?

Who believes the shoite about to protects us from harm rubbish?
296

Yeah1,

14/07/2009 16:19:57
#318

"You were caught out on a previous occasion on this forum using another moniker as well as Yeah1. If you really want to embarass yourself I can find the entries. Would you like me to do so?"

Yes please do. I expect your proof to be non-existent, as was 'Electric Hermit's' proof of me supposedly calling the SNP and the Scottish people 'nazis'.
297

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 16:20:27
#333,

Good question that won't get an answer from the idiots on here!
298

,

14/07/2009 16:20:35
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299

Miss H,

14/07/2009 16:21:33
How do people get on to talking about WW2 from a stupid story about the SNP selection process?

Bonkers, every last one of you.
300

,

14/07/2009 16:22:38
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,

14/07/2009 16:22:56
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Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 16:23:12
Yeah1,

Were you British Pride/Highland Mighty in your previous incarnation????
303

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:24:00
332 Again no numbers why I am suprised, how many were involved with this split?

Surely then in the book it would have numbers?

No irony again I'll ask if any member of any political party not just the SNP in the war were in cahoots with the Hitler and as others have claimed were known to MI5 they should have tried for treason.

And if they weren't, what does that prove?

304

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 16:24:26
REF: nova albion *

I have finally solved the mystery around this circus.

Nova Albion is a malfunctioning unionist troll who has targeted himself.

It seems the self loathing training all unionists must complete has tipped his fragile little mind over the edge. He has a split personality and no knowledge of his other postings.

He employs all the usual Unionst troll tactics eg. Multiple Monikers, Faking, Obscenity, Lies and reporting other posters but he is locked in battle with himself.

Such a shame. It is amusing yet creepy all at the same time.

Now can you imagine if Ewan Randall malfunctioned in the same way. The questions would be too much for anyone to take.
305

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:25:19
337 Grahamski up to his old tricks, I agree however I usually ignore it, but recently it's got my hackles up.
306

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:30:05
337 I've also been called worse! ;-)
307

,

14/07/2009 16:30:18
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,

14/07/2009 16:36:08
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309

The Master 2,

14/07/2009 16:36:10
#329 Tormod: the reason for the war was that Mad Sad was believed to have weapons of mass destruction. The fact that he didn't may well have been lost even on Saddam himself:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200402/ai_n9385971
"It has been widely reported that outgoing Iraq Survey Group Director David Kay told the Senate Armed Services Committee on January 28 that "we were almost all wrong." It has not been widely reported that Kay said that even Iraqi Republican Guard generals believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Kay did not even rule out that Saddam himself might have believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction"
310

The Master 2,

14/07/2009 16:37:06
#346: begone, fakey!
311

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:38:29
347 Oh right who said he had WMD, MI6? CIA?

It wasn't about regime change was it?
312

,

14/07/2009 16:38:42
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313

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:40:59
347 Let me put it another way if the intelligence was so poor in relation to Iraq how can we be sure that there intelligence is accurate on other "threats"?
314

,

14/07/2009 16:43:09
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,

14/07/2009 17:07:25
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,

14/07/2009 17:14:43
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,

14/07/2009 17:17:08
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,

14/07/2009 17:19:37
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 17:20:31
Astronomers estimate that the Milky Way experiences roughly 30 to 60 novae per year.
But the Scotsman can beat that easily.
320

,

14/07/2009 17:20:54
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 17:24:16
359
Super, Nova.
322

,

14/07/2009 17:26:05
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Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 17:30:41
333Tormod, Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:18:47
And can anybody tell what in the hell are young men dying for in Afghanistan?

Who believes the shoite about to protects us from harm rubbish?

============================

Easy,

Tony wanted to be one of the big boys. He thought it would be in and out Gulf War1 style. Unfortunately they did not realise that the people of Afghanistan have been fighting for so long they consider this normal.

Osama laid a trap for them to bankrupt the West by manipulating corporate greed in oil and arms sectors to support war and US/UK superiority mentality to ensure we plunged in to the bog with both feet.

We are still their because the labour party has been unable to either commit the right numbers to put out the Taliban or withdraw completely. It comes from laughing no idea what you are doing expect sounding good on TV.

We should either Crush them or Leave them but we should not have our young men dying in the desert because of politicians pride.

The Islamic threat is real but it comes from Saudi Arabia not Tora B*ra mountains. (Correct spelling is prohibited word)
324

,

14/07/2009 17:30:57
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325

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/07/2009 17:34:27
#362 Sgian Achlais,

Bo*a is a banned word???

That's a new one!!!!

I wonder why???
326

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 17:42:38
356Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, 14/07/2009 17:19:16
314

Ah, Sgian Achlais = Traquir.

Or should that be "Boyd"?

===========================

Not guilty of posting any tiny URL's.

I used to post under Alasdair Mac Alasdair Mor Mac An Righ but the thought police were deleting me daily after a couple of hours I would be banned from posting whether I had offended anyone or not.


327

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 17:44:44
364Jimmy Le Pie, 14/07/2009 17:34:27
#362 Sgian Achlais,

Bo*a is a banned word???

That's a new one!!!!

I wonder why???

===========================

I think anything that even sounds like Boring is banned to stop any offence to the talented journalists the Scotsman employ.
328

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 17:46:23
#363 Stan Butler

I know nothing of the accuracy or otherwise of your Wolfe pronouncement and care even less...but would have thought you would have heartily approved of it.

Logic like that being the cornerstone of the United Kingdom and all.
329

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 17:57:18
#365 Alasdair Mac Alasdair Mor Mac An Righ

Did you see the "friendly fire" incedent at #363?

Looks like they were trying to pick you off, when you put your head above the parapet.

Poor old Stan Butler took the bullet for you...he won't be missed.
330

Fitba Krazy,

14/07/2009 18:18:01
Soon after realising the Calman comission report suggested Scotland could adopt some minor tax raising powers but any additional tax raised would be DEDUCTED from the block grant thus our endeavour would benefit Westminster as is the norm it is claimed the SNP are in disarray over a by-election in Glasgow.

DISARRAY?

Anyone who now wants Scotland to remain an English colony wants to have there head looked at.

The only disarray is in those who wish Scotland to remain shackled to an abomination.
331

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 18:29:31
351Tormod, Auld Reekie 14/07/2009 16:40:59
347 Let me put it another way if the intelligence was so poor in relation to Iraq how can we be sure that there intelligence is accurate on other "threats"?

=======================================

Without digressing to far into my favourite military subject. The threat is very real.

view this link of all the major conflict zones happening in the Eurasian part of the world. The points where Islamic World meets the north/south/east and west are conflict points where the religion of peace gains a hold and meets infidels whether they are hindus, christians, bhuddists, athiests, etc, etc. Two tactics kill the infidel or claim oppression. Depending on strength on the ground.

http://www.geocities.com/arabracismandislamicjihad/Map-global-jihad.jpg

========================================

Then read this viewing the maps and you will hear familiar tales and names.

http://www.gl.iit.edu/govdocs/maps/Middle%2520East-Ottoman%2520Empire.gif&imgrefurl=http://amh.freehosting.net/analysis.htm

Especially the Battle of Vienna when the last Islamic expansion was stopped. The date 11 September 1683. (rings a bell)
332

Sgian Achlais,

14/07/2009 18:31:42
Correction to link

http://amh.freehosting.net/analysis.htm
333

Fitba Krazy,

14/07/2009 18:33:31
370, Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

Yet another dim-witted idiot who wishes Scotland to remain an enslaved English annex.

There is no mistaking the signs. A forlorn attempt to complicate the simple matter of Scotland being ripped off relentlessly under the guise of "stronger together blah blah blah"

Well Mr Mandrake, I have no time for your crappy, feeble explanations of how Scotland would be better off stuck in a one sided union with a bunch of self-proclaimed superiors as it is blatantly obvious we are not. You are always welcome to move South should your sell-out of Scotland fail and good riddance to you and your ilk.
334

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 18:53:14
#371
Group Captain Lionel Mandrake - Goodwins Law.

The poster I was replying to, was revelling the torture and eventual murder by incineration of her victims.

Admittedly I could have made a Marquis de Sade or Vlad the Impaler connection but the "N" people seemed somehow more appropriate.
335

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 19:01:32
Reading the comments made me forget that the article was written by he who goes out in the midday sun (but not alone).

Nazis? WW2? This is 2009 ffs. And we are talking about a by-election in Scotland whereby we are being forced to conduct it in English instead of German.

So what's the effing difference.

Mir macht's gar nicht aus.
336

brownlie,

14/07/2009 19:58:51
334 Yeah1

I wrote

"You were caught out on a previous occasion on this forming using a moniker as well as Yeah1. If you really want to embarass yourself I can find the entries"

You wrote:

"Please do. I expect your proof to be non existent as was Electric Hermit's....."

Happy to oblige. On the 23/10/08 you were posting as "Hey" as well as "Yeah1" and got mixed up. At 12.50.20 on the 23/10/08 you posted "I never pretended to be not the same person. I made quite clear that I was both Yeah and Hey." You only "made clear" after you posted a reply which was supposed to be from Hey as Yeah1 and you were, of course, pretending to be two different posters Hey and Yeah1.

At 307 above you claimed that you have always used your own name when posting. At 259 you claimed "You are as bad as Electric Hermit - your credibility is gone".

No, my friend, your credibility, as well as your stated political affiliation, is extremely suspect.
337

,

14/07/2009 20:18:46
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338

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 20:20:07
#378 brownlie

Well spotted...the drug addled fool thought he was Cheech AND Chong.
339

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 20:30:03
#0 David Maddox

Any news on Cllr Dornan being removed from office yet?

Being a councillor and a Bankrupt at the same time is against the rules, as I am sure you are aware.

No?

Heard from his Lawyers yet?

That would knock a few pence off the price of a Johnston Press share...lucky for you, they are already worthless.
340

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 20:30:17
When is the by-election?
341

Fitba Krazy,

14/07/2009 20:38:58

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

"the sums are done correctly here"

Really?

I prefer the true story, as do many others.

http://tinyurl.com/5kfmro
342

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 20:39:26
#384 Jock Tamson,

The Glasgow Council Bi-election, caused by the Statuary removal of the Disqualified Councillor Dornan?
343

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 20:45:35
#384 Jock Tamson,

They seem to be dragging their heels on that one as well, Let me guess...He was never bankrupt and this story is a pack of lies?

344

,

14/07/2009 20:47:52
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345

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 20:54:54
Oh dear. Seems like the story writer has forgotten what the story is all about - intent or what?

Thank you Col and Florajora for reminding me.

Btw, whatever happened to ColB?
346

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 20:59:20
re 389, Col.

Let me guess.....?

You made a comment and then posted an apology that said,

"Sorry I made a cùnt of myself."
347

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 21:04:18
#389

Jock

Col B was stripped of his posting privalleges, subsequent to being mildly critical of a 'Madass' article...no red ink, just no more boxes to put comments in for Col Blimp IV*.
348

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14/07/2009 21:06:12
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349

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 21:08:40
#390 Jock Tamson

LoL...but no impermissible language or variations thereof was involved.
350

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:10:37
Oh dear! 390 was 40 seconds before the 9 o'clock threshold for adult speak - so here it is again,

re 389, Col.

Let me guess.....?

You made a comment and then posted an apology that said,

"Sorry I made a cùnt of myself."
351

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:14:34
Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, sah!

Are you unaware that the natives no longer believe the published data from the imperial HQ?
352

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:16:29
394, Col.

Then all I can say, old chap, is tough shït.
353

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 21:17:29
#393

Facts?

Bat Guano more like!
354

Conan the Librarian™,

14/07/2009 21:26:33
399
That's Col. Bat Guano to Group Capt. Mandrake;¬)
355

brownlie,

14/07/2009 21:28:33
Actually, Jock, I have it on good authority, i.e. Conan, that the Colonel, took off to mainland Europe with a trunk-full of old Bank of Scotland fivers, bought a chateau and is living it up as part of the aristocracy.

BTW, does a Colonel outrank a Group Captain?
356

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:30:00
Col, you could do a great deal of good towards race relations by posting as The Kunta Monte Kinte.

Same ethos.
357

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 21:31:10
#400 Conan the Librarian™

He's a "tough shït" ,as Jock Tamson might put it.
358

Fitba Krazy,

14/07/2009 21:32:25

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

The delusional, hallucinogenic Mandrake decides to ignore the fact Scotland has suffered disproportionate closure of manufacturing industries under the union coupled with the lies about oil and the expenditure being decided outwith Scotland meaning Scotland pays for what it doesn't want or have any say in deciding. this is as well as them covering up the real story about oil.

This was to enable the oil revenue to enrich Westminster and to thwart Scottish claims of potential wealth in an Independent Scotland. In other words a pack of lies were told, repeatedly, to thwart Scottish self rule.

Why do they have to lie and invent stories if we are costing them in subsidy?

Mandrake, your argument is paltry.

359

brownlie,

14/07/2009 21:36:55
Why are you guys offending my wee free sensibilities with the sweary words and how are you getting past the moderating thingy?
360

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:36:56
401, brownlie. The ranks are equivalent.

However, I would suggest that a Colonel would give way to a Group Captain in an air situation and vice versa on land.
361

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:40:43
405, brownlie. The words are freely available in everyday parlance.

In these incidences they are being used in the "best possible taste".
362

brownlie,

14/07/2009 21:45:06
406 Jock

Well, feckthat for a game of soldiers.
363

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 21:58:11
408, brownlie. Aye, fùck that.
Now about your Christmas cards......

......"Wee Free kings from orient are...."
364

brownlie,

14/07/2009 22:06:35
409 Jock

Aye, I've always liked them since Jimmy Hill played for them.
365

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 22:12:14
#410 brownlie

We've supposed to hate him...He's one of "them" you know.

Hey...I thought he played for Fulham?

Yeah 1...So he did!
366

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:15:59
Ah, Chinnie Hill -remember him well.
367

brownlie,

14/07/2009 22:17:19
Hey, yeah - you're right. I was thinking of Billy the Fish or was it Alex Salmond.
368

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:17:45
He never shaved, He used a chinnie sweep.
369

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:21:45
The remarkable thing about Billy the Fish and Salmond is their scoring record against the opposition.
370

brownlie,

14/07/2009 22:22:52
415 GP

Habits like fokking the fokkers?
371

brownlie,

14/07/2009 22:24:59
416 Jock

Yeah, I understand Salmond found the net at Westminster and Bessie Braddock couldn't get him out of her hair.
372

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:26:19
415. As you wish, Group Captain, sah. Did you learn nothing about common sense in your Cranwell brainwashing cadetship?
373

JC1,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 22:28:08
#416 the only he scored was how to get a free lunch. night night alex
374

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:30:58
418, brownlie.

I understand that they are still calling for new balls at westminster ever sinse Salmond got into power at Holyrood.
375

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 22:35:00
#415 Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

Does that protocol extend to joint ventures with the yanks...WW III and the like?
376

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:36:56
"#416 the only he scored was how to get a free lunch. night night alex"

Was that meant for me? Is this the new wave of Scotsman reader? Is that witty or cutting edge satire?

Or is it tabloid and dumbed down?

Thank you JC1 for being yourself.
377

brownlie,

14/07/2009 22:37:49
420 JC1

If you must have a dig, change your moniker to JCB.
378

JC1,

Glasgow 14/07/2009 22:44:48
#423 - are you Scottish by any chance? The only thing I'd mean for you, and I mean this in peace and sincerity is to advise you to lift up your eyes, read, travel and broaden yuor horizons beyond the insular con trick that is the nats stock in trade.
379

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:45:29
Talking about the net, brownlie, I reckon Salmond did find it in a fiscal sense.
380

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 22:49:03
Well now - 424 posts and what have we learned?

The cybernats don't like the Scotsman but read it avidly.

The cybernats don't think it was right of the Scotsman to report that a party spokeswoman, who it didn't name, insisted that despite the difficulties the SNP's campaign is not in meltdown.

The cybernats don't like it when people mention Arthur Donaldson, the Nationalist Party leader who plotted to help the Nazis if they had successfully invaded Great Britain.

The cybernats don't approve of the MI5 officer who took down Arthur Donaldson, the Nationalist Party leader who plotted to help the Nazis if they had successfully invaded Great Britain.

The cybernats still don't object, by and large, when one of their number describes a fellow Scot as a traitor and a quisling, even when that fellow Scot didn't plot to help the Nazis.

There are some cybernats who are seriously short of sleep.

The internet - dead educational, intit?
381

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:49:13
425, JC1. I'm travelled enough to be able to address the poster behind the number.
382

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 22:53:52
And Fifi Sleeps during the day. Bet it hates garlic.

If Hitler had won Fifi would be moaning about compulsory English at school.
383

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 22:54:45
427
Nice try! No one is going to believe you.No one is going to buy your paper.No one is giving two hoots what you print.
384

brownlie,

14/07/2009 22:57:52
427 Fifi

What have we learned from your post at 427. Perhaps we've learned that your attitude reflects that of the Scotsman in only seeing one side of the debate and not the other. Open your eyes as a previous poster said and look at the contribution from your fellow unionist posters. Note the negativity, bile and the deceit which typifies in essence the current and probably the next UK government.
385

Alan B,

14/07/2009 23:01:30
#Fifi la Bonbon

Personally i object to the unionist scum on this forum who belittle the suffering under the nazis with their cheap jibes that show a disgusting level of morality. Sadly you have associated yourself to that line and it shows the type of person you are.

What i have noticed from this threads is that while there is a debate to be had regarding the union an independence many unionist supporters posting here are just low life. Real scum with no sense of morality and integrity.

What the nazi did was horrendous. And idiots like grahamski whose support of labour is such that he trys to compare the snp to the nazi along with you and yeah1 should really take a hard look at yourselves.
386

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:01:42
431
Nicely said,
387

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:05:01
Fifi la plant is just warming up for the dawn chorus on tomorrows edition today
388

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:08:26
432
Dawn muteness of headless chickens more like.
389

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:08:48
430, Alan B. Grahamski is a plant.
390

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 23:11:54
#429 Jock Tamson

I wonder why they hanged Lord Haw Haw and never even charged Arthur Donaldson with anything?

391

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:14:34
On a different note.slp msp Iain Gray is bemoaning the fact that needy children are being neglected in Scotland...I would have thought that he would be happy that his core vote was being assured for another generation.Never mind the fact that his party has overseen the greatest rise in child poverty in history.
392

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:19:26
435, Col. We do know why they never executed De Valera. Maybe the whole thing was a propaganda exercise.

Nah. Not in Britain.
393

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:19:57
I see where the cybernats are going here.

They think they've colonised the comment space on the Scotsman space so much that when someone that disagrees with them turns up they think he or she is a plant, put there by the proprietors of the paper or - who knows - the secret services, to spoil the flow of reasoned debate promoted by the nationalist commentariat. Everyone else is scum, especially if they raise incovenient facts, such as the National Party's well-documented brush with Herr Hitler and Herr Goebells.

Fair and balanced, right!
394

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 23:27:41
Fifi

Who won the first Westminster Bi-election to be held in Scotland after Donaldson's false arrest?
395

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:27:55
fifi la loonie
If you want conspiracy theories how about the one that Goebbels came here to meet a senior royal?
396

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:28:11
Fifi. We were talking about you - not to you.

Please do not butt in and display your inferiority complex as a manifestation of imperial might again.
397

brownlie,

14/07/2009 23:28:49
438 Fifi

Are you sure that's the kind of plant that was meant? How far back in history do you really want to go and what relevance has Donaldson got with today's SNP whose ideals and inclusiveness could not be further removed from that of Hitler's party. Do you think that this inclusiveness is fair and balanced?
398

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:31:26
440
Sorry..for Goebbels read Hess
399

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:32:06
#435 - Donaldson was arrested and detained, and let go. Maybe Malcolm Muggeridge - the MI6 man that let PG Wodehouse free after the war - took an interest and just assumed that Donaldson was a kilted version of Roderick Spode.

The telling thing is that Nationalist Party high-ups must have known of Arthur Donaldson's inglorious past and still let him proceed to leadership of their party in the sixties. Perhaps they were infiltrated by MI5 in those days more than you lot realise!

Now of course the modern Nationalist Party isn't the Nazis. Anyone that says it is is being silly. But it is sobering to think how recently a Nazi would-be agent was in charge.
400

Marga,

Edinburgh 14/07/2009 23:33:08
Nice article in the Times:Salmond the quarry in Labour's new strategy (I think that we had guessed that)

One Labour source said: “There was a feeling that Alex Salmond was popular and seen to be doing a good job so we took the view that he would get himself into trouble without us targeting him.”

However, a recent series of focus group meetings carried out for the party revealed that voters may be turning against the First Minister.

A highly placed party source said: “The word arrogance keeps coming up, particularly among women. People are also beginning to see our argument about broken promises.”

The change in strategy comes after several Labour MSPs argued that the “hands off Salmond” approach wasn't working and that the First Minister was being given free rein.

Labour now plans to target the First Minister in a series of attacks blaming him for “conning the people of Scotland” over plans to abolish council tax, wipe out student debt and bring in grants for first-time home buyers.

etc.
401

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:35:16
#439 - "...after Donaldson's false arrest?"

I think we're seeing the birth of a new kind of denial!

Donaldson was framed!!!
402

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:36:09
444, Fifi. So was MacAskill
403

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:36:30
#445 - sometimes we forget about the grants for first time home buyers.
404

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 23:37:44
#446 Fifi La Collaborator

According to your sponge-like ability to soak up government propaganda...In 1945 Motherwell must have been a hotbed of Nazi Sympathisers.
405

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:37:55
#447 - he was never arrested. Those officers simply stopped him for a chat.
406

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:40:59
Fifi doesn't get it. You have to be imprisoned by the British before you can lead your country to independence.
407

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:41:00
#449 - you describe me as a "collaborator", in a discussion about the former nationalist party leader who conspired with the Nazis while out country was at war.

And none of the cybernats will think any the worse of you for it, or challenge you.

If I were trying to espose cybernats as a group for hypocrisy and bnone-headedness, this would be the sort of thing I would point to. Just as well I'm just here for the light conversation.
408

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:42:04
445 Marga
Must be a slow news day for the times.Normally they don't report on the colonies!
409

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:46:13
452
Fi.Listen kid some of us still think we are at war.And guess what we are.We just don't use claymores anymore.
410

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/07/2009 23:47:39
452 Fifi.

"Just as well I'm just here for the light conversation."

Just as well because you're effing useless at the shedding light conversation.
411

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 23:49:42
#452
Fifi la Bonbon, - "a discussion about the former nationalist party leader who conspired with the Nazis while out country was at war."

Was he ever charged with anything?

Was he found guilty?

If the answer to any of these questions is NO...what is there to discuss, other than your prejudices ?

412

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:50:09
#454 - I bet you have a white van, and one of those Staffordshire bull terriers.
413

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/07/2009 23:51:02
#456 - we don't know what happened between Arthur and his handlers.
414

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 23:52:02
#454

More's the pity.
415

Golden1,

Alba 14/07/2009 23:57:01
457
Fi.As much as you would like that sort of thing.I have to disappoint you.However if you want to see my claymore?..it could do with a polish.
459
Col
Know what you mean.
416

Fitba Krazy,

14/07/2009 23:57:21
438 Fifi la BonBon,

"They think they've colonised the comment space on the Scotsman space so much that when someone that disagrees with them turns up they think he or she is a plant"

Mandrake is.
417

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/07/2009 23:59:24
#458

We do know that he was released without being charged, far less convicted of anything.

And this in wartime when National Security took precedence over justice and common sense.

Jeez, my OAP great grandmother spent six months in an interment camp and the rest of the war under house arrest in the interest of National Security.
418

Golden1,

Alba 15/07/2009 00:03:49
461
Sorry only drop in now and again who is mandrake?
419

Fitba Krazy,

15/07/2009 00:10:12
463 Golden1,

see Mandrake at,

379
Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,
14/07/2009 20:21:45

also at 391 to which I replied at 402.

420

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 15/07/2009 00:16:29
How to recognise a plant.

Note the log in times of their posts. Note the personality changes of the posts when JP shifts change.

Note inconsistencies like Grahamski spelling Grahams Road as Graemes Road.

Note and ignore the hook lines.

Night all.
421

scotnotbrit,

langlees 15/07/2009 00:36:04
but the graemes hotel is on grahams road , i wouldnt normally bother to come to the daftys defence , but its a local thing
422

donald,

glasgow 15/07/2009 09:10:05
Scotsman denies Labour in meltdoon. Maddox denies news.
423

Yeah1,

15/07/2009 09:47:10
#430 Alan B:

"And idiots like grahamski whose support of labour is such that he trys to compare the snp to the nazi along with you and yeah1"

Exactly where have I compared the SNP to the nazis? Where have I even suggested the SNP are nazi-like? Please provide me with evidence?

Or will you be like 'Electric Hermit' - making such accusations but then unable to provide any proof to back them up.

Infact look back through my posts here, I have consistently stated that the SNP are NOT nazis:

#284 - "why would I say the SNP are nazis when they quite clearly aren't"

#297 - "The SNP have no connection to the nazis whatsoever"

I expect an apology.

 

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