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Salmond: 'Think about bringing troops home'

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Published Date: 09 November 2009
FIRST Minister Alex Salmond has said Britain should consider withdrawing troops from Afghanistan.
His message was one of the strongest yet from a leader of any political party, signalling the hardening of the stance on the war, and it followed a BBC poll which showed nearly two thirds of British people – 64 per cent – believed that the war was "u
nwinnable".

Of those surveyed, 63 per cent called for a withdrawal as soon as possible, while 43 per cent said they did not understand the purpose of the war.

Mr Salmond said: "I'm not surprised by the findings, because what you've got among the public is a combination of great support for the troops on the ground, as you would expect, but no confidence whatsoever in the government's strategy in pursuing the conflict. There has to be the fundamental reassessment of the role, mission, strategy. Nothing should be off the table. That should include the possibility of a withdrawal."

Meanwhile, in a frank interview, Sir Jock Stirrup, the chief of defence staff, also acknowledged that many people did not believe the war was winnable.

"I do think it is incredibly important that we do better at describing to people the success that we are having, to demonstrate that over the long term that this is do-able. I don't think we have been nearly good enough," he said.

He signalled that, despite growing opposition, British troops were likely to remain on combat duties in the region for at least four or five years.

This was slightly longer than the US commander General Stanley McChrystal was predicting – a forecast Sir Jock said was "a little optimistic".

He denied reports that troops would retreat from the bloody battle site of Musa Qala, but he admitted that there was some frustration with the Obama administration's delay in deciding whether to send an additional 40,000 troops, warning that the entire current strategy hinged on the extra support.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown also added his support to the mission, saying the war was vital in dealing with the threat of terrorism.

Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said British military involvement in Afghanistan could not be determined by public opinion.

"British public opinion has been dented by the level of losses that we have received but we cannot run a campaign like this off the back of an opinion poll," he said.

"We have to persevere, we have to show some resolution. This campaign is directly connected to our safety back here in the United Kingdom. Failure will be a disaster for us."

Shadow defence secretary Liam Fox agreed that Britain should not immediately withdraw.

Dr Fox said: "If we were seen to be forced out of Afghanistan by public opinion, what message would that send to the men of violence?

"This is about how we are perceived to deal with fundamental threats, fundamental trans- national terrorism which sooner or later is likely to affect us."



Page 1 of 1

 
1

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

08/11/2009 22:08:25

"FIRST Minister Alex Salmond has said Britain should consider withdrawing troops from Afghanistan."

Ah, this is the same person who said our participation in ending the Serb terrorisation of Kosovo was "unpardonable folly".

Let's leave his expertise to the financial sector.

Oooh, hang on, didn't he "pledge" "light-touch regulation" for finance in an "independent" Scotland?

Oh yes he did.

Is there no beginning to his talents?
2

The Real Rufus T Firefly,

08/11/2009 22:50:52
#1 Group Captain, yes it is indeed the same person.

He is also the same person who promised a 'political earthquake' in Glenrothes and advised all his sect followers to put a tenner on the SNP winning the seat.

He also predicted that Susan Boyle would win Britains Got Talent and he also predicted that Scotland would beat Holland in the Euro qualifiers.

So you can't question Salmond's judgement, well apart from him saying that 'HBOS was financially sound'.
3

Mc Max ,

09/11/2009 00:13:54
1&2.

What is your point,
people are dying?
Youse seem to think it is funny, sarcastic and worth a cheap shot at Salmond.
63 per cent of people are wrong are they?
God help us.
4

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 09/11/2009 00:16:33
-- Our participation in ending the Serb terrorisation of Kosovo was "unpardonable folly".

Politicians like Alex Salmond and Presid Obama have to carefully pitch their rhetoric. Whereas the NATO mass bombing of Yugoslavia is a WAR CRIME.
5

Mc Max ,

09/11/2009 00:25:48
1&2
Please show some sort of respect.

http://tinyurl.com/yh4t7us
6

Handsome Scotsman,

09/11/2009 00:34:11
1&2
Making fun out of dead soldiers is rather tastless.

Without anything sensible to say please refrain from further contribution.
7

Darien,

Panama 09/11/2009 00:43:54
Only an idiot would say there is any point in the GB army being there. Salmond is right - OUT NOW. New Labour are muppets, as are the Tories.
8

,

09/11/2009 00:45:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 00:55:58

The $64 Question is Mr Ainsworthy the right man for the
Job?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2659323/BUNGLING-Defence-Secretary-Bob-Ainsworths-stumbling-performance-at-Suns-emergency-war-debate.html
10

JaF,

09/11/2009 00:59:09
#1/#2: Fool - A person who lacks good judgment or/and a harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of understanding.
11

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 09/11/2009 01:21:25

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2720283/Prime-Minister-Gordon-Brown-couldnt-even-get-our-name-right.html
12

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 09/11/2009 01:22:56
Just look at this - what an incredible and absolute shambles this individual is - get to blazes out of here Mr. Brown.

You are an embarassment -

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2720283/Prime-Minister-Gordon-Brown-couldnt-even-get-our-name-right.html
13

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 09/11/2009 01:24:19
Once more as I cannot believe my eyes - this is astonishing and if he does not resign after this then I just give up on this country -


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2720283/Prime-Minister-Gordon-Brown-couldnt-even-get-our-name-right.html
14

Cynicus Unbound,

09/11/2009 01:31:11
'...this is the same person who said our participation in ending the Serb terrorisation of Kosovo was "unpardonable folly".'-#1 Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

And he was dead right, Smme. Even more than he could foresee at the time. The cowardly and terroristic bombing of Serbia only endowed Tony Blair with that hubris that led to the calamity of Iraq and Blair's nemesis.

Or maybe you are one of those who think that Iraq was a great success? That makes you and Blair the only two.


15

Mc Max ,

09/11/2009 01:39:14
Where have 1&2 gone?
Filling in postal votes are we?
16

Stephen Wayne Foster,

Miami, Florida 09/11/2009 02:37:44
The Scottish troops will be pulled out when Scotland is independent, and not otherwise.
17

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 09/11/2009 02:39:24
The public are rightly questioning the politicans' decisions. Have any of them had first - hand experience of the battle field? The message has always been a confused one. The 'enemy' are all over the place. Easier to start a war, impossible to stop it? It's the sight of all those flag-draped coffins that is turning public opinion, with no end in sight. We have lost faith in the government bigtime.
18

Vista,

09/11/2009 03:03:22
6.Handsome Scotsman

Shurely an okshimoron?
19

Alice Cooper,

09/11/2009 03:04:40
lets hope the postal votes were sent by royal mail lol
i attended the count of the very first euro elections at meadowbank,i saw one ballot paper with the following writen on it
"Ovaltinies rule ya bas"
the then lothian regional council put up the results in its hq doorway stating that there were no spoilt papers,so who got the ovaltine vote
either that all discarded votes were burnt and that was an end to it
20

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 09/11/2009 03:18:04
There is absolutely no doubt that this government have been unable to get the message across to the public as to why we are in Afghanistan.
It should consider public opinion but should not be driven by it. Mr Salmond it should be noted does not advocate withdrawal per se.
21

Vista,

09/11/2009 03:22:39
"This was slightly longer than the US commander General Stanley McChrystal was predicting – a forecast Sir Jock said was "a little optimistic".

Well Sir Jock Strapp should know if anybody does considering the British Army have had their asses kicked in Afghanistan in some previous set-to's
22

Vista,

09/11/2009 03:28:35
If Cary Grant, Victor McClaglan and Douglas Fairbanks Jnr. plus Sam Jaffe were still around we could have the problem of Afghanistan sorted out in oh...an hour and a half!
23

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 09/11/2009 03:43:54
#21 Do you have some other Agenda?
24

Baggy Troosers,

09/11/2009 04:29:05
#3

Its just an idiots parade and he/they are best laughed at or just ignored.

They usually only want the first couple of comments before they are put to bed.
25

Baggy Troosers,

09/11/2009 04:55:24
Salmond in touch with the will of the people,

Rufus the Fire engine and Captain Pugwash in a wee twilight world of their own before bedtime.
26

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

09/11/2009 05:52:20
The troops should never have been sent there in the first place.

Under-manned and under-equipped lions led by donkeys.
27

John Cameron,

St Andrews 09/11/2009 06:14:19
Wee Eck is absolutely right! After his ritual humiliation at the G20 in St Andrews, Gordon Brown will today deliver himself of another cunning plan – this time about Afghanistan. I can hardly wait! We need clarity about why our troops are still in that God forsaken hole, eight years after they were first deployed, and a sense of when reality will dawn and they can come home. This most stupid of all ZANU Labour’s stupid wars has clearly lost public support. Brown last attempted to make clear his intentions two months ago in a speech which completely failed to address ANY of the key questions. In Obama and Brown we have two ditherers of truly sublime proportions. Tomorrow we will still be there because we are there and because these two clowns cannot think what to do.
28

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 09/11/2009 06:45:50
Re Alice Cooper #19 : "the then lothian regional council put up the results in its hq doorway stating that there were no spoilt papers"

That should have been reported to the returning officer.
29

Aberdeenshire Creepy Scot,

09/11/2009 07:38:29
26 bully wee

'Lions led by donkeys'

How original.
30

The Tin Man,

09/11/2009 07:54:35
The Great Statesman & Leader has spoken: 'eh... there was an opinion pole, and maybe we should do something different, or maybe we should withdraw, maybe...'
31

Alice Cooper,

09/11/2009 07:57:59
#28
the results [posted were signed off by the returning officer
dont know why he wasnt shown it and the other ones as well
32

The Tin Man,

09/11/2009 08:00:01
Gorbachev was a bit more frank earlier this year, when he said something along the lines of 'you have been militarily beaten and you need to withdraw your troops and concentrate on the puppet regime, after all, the US and Saudi created the Taliban, so deal with them'.
33

New Danielrober,

09/11/2009 08:05:30
I know Alec.S see’s himself as a duellist seeking to fight for the honour of his Scotland for his own reasons, with Gordon Brown. For the most part this is a healthy principle, to seek to address issues and in fact one I agree with. Yet the Duke of Wellington banned duels for members of the military for a good reason. Could Alec.S and some of the SNP back of a little over this issue.

The war has been won and it will soon be time for a scaling down of military action. Yet for years, if not decades, political and other support must be continued to ensure that Afghanistan is not returned to the extremists. Alec.S and the SNP can be a part of that support, not least for how to oppose your own government at every turn without going over the edge, support which should not be withdrawn for the sake of picking another duel.
34

Foresight,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 08:12:12

#33 Get real, the war has not been won, will never be one and if you understand history you will soon understand why. Such naivity !!!!
35

brownlie,

09/11/2009 08:13:40
33 New Danielrober

New Daniel but the same old rubbish. "The war has been won..."? As the stated aim of the "war" was to prevent terrorism, has the objective been achieved i.e. no more terrorism. It must have been obvious to all but the most blinkered that those who promote terrorism could move to any number of countries in the world where they would be welcomed.
36

New Danielrober,

09/11/2009 08:16:27
# 34 Foresight,Edinburgh

Such an obsession with the past might rob you and maybe others of the ability to think clearly about the future. Military duelling was banned for a sensible reason.
37

New Danielrober,

09/11/2009 08:19:55
Why not sensibly go through a list of objectives, which do not involve getting former Taliban members to love us.

Points could/should include new schools, females in education, university entrants, new hospitals, number of power stations, numbers of motors cars sold etc. These are the objectives which we use to judge ourselves, so why not Afghanistan?
38

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

09/11/2009 08:25:19
#29 Rufus

Judging by Gordon Brown’s handwritten letter as shown on BBC News perhaps I should have said “illiterate donkeys”.
39

TWC,

exLabour 09/11/2009 08:26:41
1 & 2

Bad taste, there is a doubt about the mission and the reason for being there so I welcome the critique.

Even if we decide to leave it will take 3 years.

What does Winning entail, I fear it is like everything else with Labour no definition therefore whatever they do cannot be measured

All we can...Everything necessary..., no stone unturned...
Leading out of recession by 3r Q, I mean year end (or possibly 1 Q 2010) etc
40

New Danielrober,

09/11/2009 08:28:30
# 39 TWC,exLabour

"What does Winning entail, I fear it is like everything else with Labour no definition therefore whatever they do cannot be measured"


Excellent point.
41

TWC,

exLabour 09/11/2009 08:29:50
38 Dùn Èideann Bully Wee

That's the way I write about 11.30 on a Friday night.
42

Ben Thehoose,

09/11/2009 08:36:40
Posts 1 and 2 say it all, really. The Tartan Taleban is just jumping on an already rolling bandwaggon now.
43

TWC,

exLabour 09/11/2009 08:42:33
42 Ben Thehoose,
This is not about Party, It's not about Labour. Most Labour supporters don't want this war either.
Labour Poodles have their heads so far up their Fundamental that efverything that is good for Scotland belongs to the Nats.

This about young people on both sides dying for a cause they THINK is right.

Civilised people don't behave like this -- so I guess we are not Civilised.
44

BlantyreBill,

09/11/2009 09:16:17
As usual, the SNP jump onto a popular bandwagon without any consideration of the consequences.
For example - Lets abandon Afghanistan and leave a safe haven for the terrorists from Pakistan who are fleeing from the Pakistan government who are trying to protect their population.
45

aljok.23,

the world 09/11/2009 09:18:37
#46 as opposed to remain in the country and contribute to more murder?
46

Marian,

09/11/2009 09:36:15
We should only send out armed forces to fight wars when (a) there is a clear reason for doing so and (b) they have been adequately trained and equipped to fight the kind of war they are being sent to fight.

To date we are still waiting for Gordon Brown to give us clear reasons for sending our armed forces to Afghanistan. His recent speech on this subject was so full of holes that it failed miserably to provide the justification. For example he claimed that we are fighting against Al-Qaeda but all the evidence says they are not in Afghanistan but in Pakistan instead but nothing is being done by the UK to tackle their presence in Pakistan.

All the evidence is that even after 8 years being in Afghanistan our armed forces are still inadequately trained and equipped for the fighting against the Taliban there. For example our military leaders have been asking for more helicopters since day one of the war but evidently Gordon Brown ruled out spending more money on acquiring helicopters until recently.

So here we are with our brave soldiers being slaughtered on an almost daily basis when (a) there is no clear reason for doing so and (b) they have not been adequately trained and equipped to fight the kind of war they are being sent to fight.

So our armed forces should be withdrawn immediately.
47

Al Ghaf,

09/11/2009 09:47:30
"43 per cent said they did not understand the purpose of the war."

Are we to believe that 57 per cent do understand the purpose of the war? This majority must be very well hidden, I have never met anybody who could explain the reason for this war. Plenty excuses and empty rhetoric, but no good explanation.

I think it would be more accurate to say 57 per cent either believe the spin or do not care why the UK is there.
48

New Danielrober,

09/11/2009 10:00:36
# 48 Marian

It would seem your glass is half empty.
49

BlantyreBill,

09/11/2009 10:08:28
47
All of the allied forces in Afghanistan are there to support the elected Afghan government and the people that it represents. It's purpose is not to "murder people". To claim so is rediculous.
50

watcher,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 10:19:12
The Nats have never supported the British troops period.
51

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 09/11/2009 10:55:19
Forgive all my Typos as it is hard to type with the tears running down my legs from the first two posts on this thread!

As the article states "His message was one of the strongest yet from a leader of any political party".

What a shame the General donkeys are predicting that it will take a total of twelve years to complete our mission, "training the Afghan soldiers". Something the British soldiers get a few weeks to do?

Perhaps we should have sent all 112,000 soldiers to Afghanistan?

Brown, Labour and the British nationalists think we should just continue to lose people and stop moaning!

I was disgusted to read that the Celtic fans are being condemned for refusing to support Labour's legalised slaughter in Afghanistan.
52

Temple,

North Italy 09/11/2009 10:56:43
"Whereas the NATO mass bombing of Yugoslavia is a WAR CRIME."

it was

only for Mandrake and Rufus it wasn't

Salmond said "unpardonable folly".

i'm agree with him
if anyone has any doubt that it was not a crime , better he's watching one more time Wag the Dog

53

Sgritheall,

Switzerland 09/11/2009 11:18:09
Salmond is absolutly right. Bush started the war in Afghanistan because the Taleban refused to hand Bin Laden over. A fit of pique. And so many have died. And then you get a letter from the man who sent your son to his death, and he says he's sorry.
54

The west awake,

Argyll 09/11/2009 11:33:50
Blantyre Bill - "Lets abandon Afghanistan and leave a safe haven for the terrorists from Pakistan who are fleeing from the Pakistan government who are trying to protect their population."

Bill - we are being told we must keep troops in Afghanistan to "stop terrorists coming to Britain".

Why are they coming to Britain?
What is the underlying reason why certain people from Islamic countries want to bomb us? Why do they view us as "the enemy"? Why don't they go and bomb,say, the Chinese, or the Brazilians?
55

Buthus,

09/11/2009 11:35:18
8. Beachcomber."Salmond was one of the few British politicians to oppose the NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999.....etc etc"

yes.. and most serious observers will agree that Salmond made a error of judgement on Kosovo. Having been there shortly afterwards and having seen for myself the evidence of the persecution of the Kosovar Albanian population, I'm relieved he was ignored. He should keep out of subjects he knows little about and are not part of his remit.(Afghanistan)
56

Number 6,

Germany 09/11/2009 11:53:39
53 Watcher, you could not be more wrong if you tried.
The SNP are the ONLY mainstream party to be praised by the heads of all three services for the support they give to the troops.

Especially those returning from the war zones and those who leave the services.

Contrast that with the widespread disgust across the services for Brown and the Labour Party.

Are you even aware he recently tried to close down the TA, and was only stopped by cross party fury ?

Every squaddie knows that Brown referred to the Senior Officers who forced BLIAR into giving more support as
"Those Bast#rds".

As a Unionista, I would not expect you to look outside here or the daily record for your "News".

Naturally, both papers refused pointblank to cover the very succesful meetings the SNP have with the Military.

Again, you have to go to the English Media, or the MOD website to read about it. Not that you would of course, just the thought of it probably terrifies you.
57

frank mcbride,

lusitania 09/11/2009 12:02:14
#46, #51, Blantyre Bill.

More of your usual ill-informed rubbish.

AS has not said that we should withdraw from Afghanistan, only that that is an option that should be on the table.

"..to support the elected Afgan government", an Afghan Government which has been condemned world-wide as corrupt, and is in place because of a fraudulent election.

Like your Unionist friends, you have a very suspect moral compass.
58

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 12:15:57
1 Dear oh Dear Smee. For a self styled military expert you appear to be shockingly ignorant with regard to some matters, the NATO action in Kosovo being but one of them.
59

Jo Public,

09/11/2009 12:20:40
#1 & #2

Rufus - only idiots post to themselves.
60

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 12:22:45
Salmond is only saying out loud what the vast majority think.

I know unionists think that's against the rules - well tough.
61

Jo Public,

09/11/2009 12:23:02
The troops should come home. Muslims and non Muslims should live apart. They are fundamentally different in their beliefs. These are irreconcilable.
62

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 09/11/2009 12:29:04
I have never thought the Afghan campaign would be a success and always had reservations about it, I know the offical SNP policy is to help.

63 Observer indeed.
63

Yeah1,

09/11/2009 12:36:59
#66

"Muslims and non Muslims should live apart. They are fundamentally different in their beliefs. These are irreconcilable."

Just out of interest, which party do you vote for/support?
64

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 12:37:34
68 What relevance does that have?
65

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 12:38:39
66 so what do you suggest we do with muslims living in Scotland then?

66

Ferris Bueller,

09/11/2009 12:38:53
13 Unelectedbythepeople,UK 09/11/2009 01:24:19
Once more as I cannot believe my eyes - this is astonishing and if he does not resign after this then I just give up on this country -
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2720283/Prime-Minister-Gordon-Brown-couldnt-even-get-our-name-right.html
****************************

What?

You want him to resign over a spelling error?

Maybe you should resign, because let's face it, your grammar is astonishingly poor.
67

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 09/11/2009 12:48:57
Afghanistan does not have defined borders so I question how any army could defend them and what (apart from a USA owned gas line) does Afghanistan have that is worth defending?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.stm
68

Jay Kay,

09/11/2009 12:51:00
Nero at least, could, play the fiddle while Rome Burned, this a*hole Brown can't even spell properly ffs.

I have to agree, every man, woman and child should be made to read and watch this.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2720283/Prime-Minister-Gordon-Brown-couldnt-even-get-our-name-right.html

To all voters in glasgow NE vote this scum out now.
69

Jay Kay,

09/11/2009 12:53:56
#71 Ferris, no 63% or more of the poulation want him to resign because of the state of this country ffs, what planet are you living on. Have you looked at the state of our economy? Blair and Brown inherited the fourth ritchest economy on the planet and look what they have done with it.


Why are we fighting these goat herders and loosing? answers on a post card please.
70

Jo Public,

09/11/2009 12:57:42
#68. Not the BNP if that's what you are alluding to.
71

Jo Public,

09/11/2009 13:01:31
#70. Nothing. I wasn't suggesting we do anything with Muslims living here or anywhere else. Never said that. I only pointed out that beliefs are so different that I personally don't believe they are reconcilable.
72

Sedov,

09/11/2009 13:14:25
Well said Salmond - we should bring the troops home home now.

But why don't you extend this to real socialist policies for the SNP - and drop the nationalist bit though and ... I'm sure that you would get a strong echo?

73

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 09/11/2009 13:17:41
The politicians are doing what they always do; and sadly it seems to work for them most of the time.

In the case of Afghanistan they're manipulating the public's repulsion at the casualty figures by exclaiming mortified shock that we the public are in some way not supporting our troops!

Well as a member of that repulsed public I want to make it clear I do support the troops and wish each and every one of them - even the Sandhurst Assassins - a long content and satisfying, if not particularly productive, life.

What I do not support is the word terror being substituted for the purposes of global commerce and their political lackeys laying out our troops blood for their money.

In a nutshell, while there may be some Afghans who want some sort of democracy, the ruling 'elite' will take any sort of deprivation and casualties, as long as it keeps the billions in aid and armour pouring in.

Sometimes I wish there was a God. If only to blast these black enamelled hypocrite's off the face of this earth.
74

,

09/11/2009 13:34:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
75

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:34:30
"I want to make it clear I do support the troops and wish each and every one of them - even the Sandhurst Assassins - a long content and satisfying, if not particularly productive, life."

You will have to explain what a "Sandhurst Assassin" is to the rest of us.

No doubt you have some completely insane theory behind using that term.

Getting back to the article itself, no one is surprised at Salmond's stance. A party without a defence policy of its own worthy of the name, a party committed to leaving NATO entirely and a party without a foreign policy other than a white flag could hardly be expected to say otherwise.

If I were Alex Salmond I would send the Terrorists of every stripe a jolly sharp e-mail - that will stop them attempting to blow up Glaswgian holidaymakers.

76

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:37:22
I forgot - the SNP could not give two hoots what happens to Glasgow or Glaswegians.
77

Gruntfuttock,

09/11/2009 13:37:30
No doubt if the poll showed 63% in favour of the war, Salmond would have jumped the other way. This man is sickeningly unprincipled. He is a First Minister who has the luxury of wielding power without responsibility. Any populist cause will do. I wonder how this bending in the wind plays amongst those in the military from his constituency?
78

,

09/11/2009 13:47:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
79

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 09/11/2009 13:48:50
#80-81 Pathetic and asinine.
80

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:50:38
84 Quite.
81

,

09/11/2009 13:51:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
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82

veritas1,

clacks 09/11/2009 13:53:48
If anyone cares to go online and check for 'informed' comments regarding Kosovo they will find that Alex Salmond was right.

For starters Ethnic cleansing didn't get under way until the bombing started.

As for the present war, there are those of us who see certain similarities to the Vietnam war, like the making of excuses for the propping up of an ever increasing unpopular leadership, back then the excuse was the Domino Effect, now it's countering terrorism abroad instead of at home.

Little things like badly equipped forces or coherent strategy's don't seem to matter.
83

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:54:18
Well give us all the "benefit" of your insight Loon!
Quite how this story is received by those currently serving in the Scottish regiments has not been touched upon by you or your nat friends so far either.

Just exactly how are the "Assassins" supposed to feel when they read that the First Minister of the Scottish Government thinks they should not be there at all?
84

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:55:19
I know - maybe Alex Salmond can try to impeach Gordon Brown too!
85

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:56:35
Maybe he can add Barack Obama to that list too - an expression of the nat foreign policy if you like.
86

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:57:20
88 I would imagine that a lot of them would be quite pleased that at last a politician is saying what the general public believe.

Soldiers can't decide where they are stationed and what campaigns they fight. They have to trust the Government to deploy them sensibly. When they don't then it is not disloyal to point that out.
87

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 13:59:37
End an e-mail veritas!
info@taliban.org.ag
88

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 14:00:55
have a read of The Sunday Herald observer - front page.
89

tommy M,

Let Scotland flourish 09/11/2009 14:14:27
Our first minister is putting forward rational and reasonable argument, reflective of the views of the people,most of whom did not want these illegal wars and do not understand why the warmongers Bush Blair and Brown took us into them. The wars have not made the world a better, safer place and Broon knickers can chunter on all he likes about the "threat of terrorism" to keep the people behind him in fear, but nobody believes a word he or his treacherous party says any more.
90

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 14:44:35
Here we go...
Anything the SNP dislikes is illegal according to the SNP.
If the war in Afghanistan is illegal, someone had better tell Barack Obama because he was elected on the basis he was going to prosecute it with UN support.
Better still, call the cops and have him arrested.

When terrorists fly two aeroplanes into the World Trade Centre the fault does not lay with the Wright Brothers.

The real point is that people like you tommy just want the blame to attach to the politicians of the West and particularly the UK.

91

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 14:46:20
Jock Stirrup summed it up for me: you don't defend from your own goal line!

You need to get to the very heart of your opponent's territory and take your defence to him.
92

The Master,

09/11/2009 15:18:51
Haven't you learnt your lesson from your much derided remarks about Kosovo, Alex?

Word of advice from the Master: your forte is as the "voter friendly" figurehead of Nationalism. You've consistently proved yourself a laughing stock when you try to talk about wider issues. "Spivs and speculators", anyone? Compare reaction to the anti nuclear stance??? Oh I'd better stop it, my sides are splitting!
93

Labour Lies,

09/11/2009 15:28:17

#97 The Master

Come now, you can’t get a bigger laugh than Gordon Brown, Jim Murphy and Iain Gray.

Politicians of irrelevant stature
94

Hobbe,

09/11/2009 15:33:25
My father voted SNP and was in the british Army fighting at Aden, so the person 'watcher' narrow minded ignorant wee brit type is being very ignorant towards this Scot and thousands of others who have joined the military and fought with honour whilst not voting for Labour.

Others like the two clowns at the beginning of this article show a similar ignorance and lack of respect.

Salmond was spot on about Kosovo, and to as for Afghanistan, there is no coherent strategy stated, so this gives Labour at Westminster less problems when people rightly ask about progress and Salmond's views reach across the wider political spectrum whereas the unionists drone on ignoring the true lack of strategic planning that has rightly seen military leaders criticise Brown et al.

Alex Salmond is also perfectly right to say that a withdrawal, and the circumstances around that should be discussed and planned because the idea of a war is to win it, not hang around making the world and us a less safe place for purely political reasons as the brave soldiers come home in coffins.
95

Hobbe,

09/11/2009 15:37:11
peter1958, Glasgow 09/11/2009 14:46:20
"Jock Stirrup summed it up for me: you don't defend from your own goal line!

You need to get to the very heart of your opponent's territory and take your defence to him."

You also need to be capable of having workable tactics and a plan.

That is what MILITARY LEADERS are saying is lacking, as well as the public who basically see that our troops have been sent in ill equipped as far as equipment is concerned and poorly led and supported by Westminster lLabour.

No amount of love or pride in Labour (as bizarre as that concept is when you consider they are a walking political disaster of a party) will overcome the real belief that Afghanistan is a failure of an invasion, and one that cannot keep terrorism at bay rather than fuel it.
96

Hobbe,

09/11/2009 15:45:20
peter1958: "When terrorists fly two aeroplanes into the World Trade Centre the fault does not lay with the Wright Brothers."

Many Americans thought that the Iraq War was about the twin towers rather than the wright brothers-that was what their right wing Government officials such as the dreadful Donald Rumsfeld told them-meanwhile over half a million men women and children in Iraq are dead because of that war.......and are still dying within that chaotic military intervention that Labour in Westminster, brown and blair fully supported.

You can't stop terrorism by 'winning' in Afghanistan, you can't stop an atrocity tomorrow or the next day, and winning in Afghanistan will be very difficult if not impossible and would take decades of fighting.

We will always support our troops, but we don't always blindly support how the government deploys them, (and we never ever should) and that is a very fair way to describe most of the public in the British isles, including those dwindling ones who still support Labour.
97

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 15:59:48
46 BLANTYRE BILL: One can only assume from your comment that you failed to read properly or understand Salmond's remarks.
98

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 16:00:03
The only people who don't understand the strategy are Alex Salmond and his nat stooges.
The idea was to break the Taliban stranglehold on Afghanistan which the US and its allies did in 2001. The hard part is replacing the Taliban with a government of some type of legitimacy whilst fending off the counter initiative.

We are clearly in stage 2 of said process.

Those who think all Americans ignorant imperialists (and that includes most of the SNP) fail to appreciate the efforts made by Bush and now Obama to combine stage 2 with the strengthening of support for Pakistan and enabling that much troubled land to carry the offensive forward.

If it takes 5 years to build Afghan forces to do the job then so be it.

If it takes another 5 years to force the pakisatan authorities to treat the terrorist threat contained within their own land seriously then so be it.

But please don't try and say that the SNP have any type of answer to the problems of world terrorism because, sadly, that is not the case. In fact, the only answer the SNP have to any conflict is to keep well clear of it at all costs - and blame the USA for spreading misery.

The SNP world view is driven by its antipathy to the UK and it can no longer contain its bile.

The First Minister should avoid commenting upon foreign affairs when he has no solution to offer other than to criticise NATO forces and the UN.
99

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 16:01:41
53 WATCHER: Your comment is quite without justification and untrue.
100

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 16:20:15
92, 93, 95 etc: You are clearly deluded and unable to read and understand Salmond's comments. Are you educationally challenged that you find his remarks so incomprehensible?
101

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 16:26:05
Thanks Florence.
When the SNP finds itself criticised in the press it makes attempts to cast off the article as a non-story.
When I am abused by wee nats on the threads I cast them off as non-entities.
And that is exactly what you are - so either make a valid point or just creep away into your dark wee corner.

102

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 16:31:10
103 PETER1958: Dear,oh dear, oh dear. Have you been at the magic mushrooms? So the Taliban stranglehold was broken in 2001? Well, I'm sure there will be many reading your comment who will be staggered by this revelation, not least the troops out in Afghanistan. Any more little gems like this and you'll be taken away to the funny farm.
103

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 09/11/2009 16:31:51
A bizarre contribution from Alex Salmond.
104

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 16:34:04
108 W U: How so? Can you elaborate on your comment?
105

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 16:39:57
106 PETER: We nonentities feel justified in pointing out any misrepresentation you care to make on the article. Read, digest, then comment on the facts. That's how it's done. Not an irrational rant!
106

Western Gael,

09/11/2009 17:19:28
"Prime Minister Gordon Brown also added his support to the mission, saying the war was vital in dealing with the threat of terrorism."

If that is indeed the case, Brown is being delinquent in not convincing Barack Obama to make his first decision on American participation in the war. He's President and it's his war, not Bush's, Blair's, Salmond's, Ainsworth's or Brown's.
107

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 09/11/2009 17:42:25
A quick explanation on Defence Chiefs and the line they will take on the war. Jock Stirrup is CDS but very RAF centric, continued conflict in Afghanistan threatens procurement of hi tech RAF projects. You do not need Eurofighter in Afghanistan, too fast for ground support. You are better off with old harriers or even turbo prop aircraft with rockets. The navy will also support withdrawal as only Royal Marines and Fleet Air Arm contribute. the Army like it as they get the lions share of the cash to fight "the war" whilst the other services battle to maintain the ability to fight "a war" of a non counter insurgency nature.
108

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 09/11/2009 18:06:04
#88 Peter - it's amazing how selective your comments are.

In fact the whole of the UK's strategy is dependent on the position adopted by America. Hence the present hiatus by wobbling Brown while Obama makes up his mind whether to surge, hold, adopt a different strategy, or effect a withdrawal. Not a particularly comfortable or sovereign position for our troops to be in.

However it's a situation that has been developed and exploited, mainly to America's benefit, since they got their fingers burnt in Vietnam. In essence merely an attempt to legitimise a failed concept of imperial aggression with the might to be right.

And, as far as Afghan is concerned, the war lords will let the slaughter run for as long as aid and money is pouring into the country.

As to Pakistan's problems. They're for the Pakistanis to solve. The fact is they have never been in control of the Pushtan area. Mainly for fear if they tried a lot of what they claim as Pakistan, perhaps all of it would end up as Pushtanistan. That and the fact they are also benefiting from Western aid are the only reasons why they're addressing the problems now.

So Brown may have his reasons, but I'm damn sure the Afghani's and Pakistani's will have entirely different hopes and aspirations.


109

Walter Ego,

Durness 09/11/2009 18:08:04
108 W U Merchant

I agree. Who is advising Salmond? Another blunder.
110

CoI Blimp Vl,

09/11/2009 18:25:53
Jock Stirrup says :
"I do think it is incredibly important that we do better at describing to people the success that we are having, to demonstrate that over the long term that this is do-able."

Perhaps he could begin by describing what "this" means...they have had eight years one general election and another on the horizon, yet thousands of press statements and sound bites later, nobody has a clue what their objective was, is or will develop into.

We were told that the bad guys who planned the 9/11 attacks, were hiding out in the hills and had to be stopped at all costs before they struck again.

Within a couple of weeks, guilty or not these people were reduced to dust or carted away to an off shore torture camp.

Our involvement should have ceased when the first blindfolded and manacled "suspect" set foot in occupied Cuba.

111

Miss H,

09/11/2009 18:52:36
20 You are right that Alex Salmond is not simply saying troops out now. What he is saying is let us honestly appraise all the options. We would need to be clear about the reasons for pulling out as well as we would need to be clear about the reasons for keeping troops there.

The fact that troops are dying is not a reason to pull out. Troops die in wars, that's a fact of life. It is what they are dying for that is the issue.
112

Miss H,

09/11/2009 18:55:09
37 None of those points are a reason to go to war.
113

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 09/11/2009 18:57:55
#118

Indeed not but offering a safe haven and training facilities from which numerous terrorist attacks were launched was. Not from me thats what the UN decided.
114

Miss H,

09/11/2009 19:03:36
95 You are getting confused. It is the war in Iraq that was illegal. The USA had the right to act in self defence after 9/11 and attack Afghanistan to topple the regime that supported Al Quaeda and destroy Al Quaeda. Whether that was right or wrong can be debated but they had a legal right to do it acting in self defence.

Problem is that was in 2001. We are now in 2009 and the words bogged down come to mind.
115

Miss H,

09/11/2009 19:10:06
119 That may be, I am not debating that. But I think people are entitled to know a bit more about what the true situation is now and what the plans are, especially given the recent farce of the election.

A bit of honesty would not go amiss. Why are we there? What do we hope to achieve? Are we achieving it? Are we likely to achieve it and if so within what timescale?

I think the public suspects that the answer to any or all of those questions is 'Don't know'.
116

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 19:35:29


The way Salmond scorned US requests not to release convicted murderer El MacGrahi and now Salmond's scornful disdain for US and UK troops who are defending their respective homelands, a newly independent Scotland would have plenty of enemies.
Maybe smirking, sneering Salmond's allies in the Taliban would help him out, after all he's done for them.
For the benefit of serving soldiers reading this; Salmond does not speak for Scotland. He speaks for that minority hoping to undermine the morale of the British and US military, but, it will take more than sleazy Salmond, or, his yapping dogs to do that ...
117

Number 6,

Germany 09/11/2009 19:43:13
Sir Jock has declared the British Army will have to be in Afghanistan for at least 5 years.

This is a clear admission that defeating the Taliban is not on the horizon.

Are we seriously expected to send our troops into that hellhole to die and be horribly maimed for 5 more years?

Will Brown keep to the promise he made that there would be no increase in troops unless the other allied members do the same?

There is a vote soon in Germany on that very issue.
After the recent massacre of civilians,involving the German army, I can assure you they are going to vote no.

Will we end up the only mugs there along with the Americans?

Can you imagine the financial cost of such a lengthy occupation?
118

vitesse_skye,

Antwerp Belgium 09/11/2009 19:48:43
If you want to see the success of the war in Afghanistan go to the village of Kelty in Fife. Famous for its social club where they always served half gills at great prices, for its amateur football team who won the Scottish amateur cup and for the amount of Afghan brown which is consumed regularily by 1 in 4 of its inhabitants. I left Kelty in 1992. At that time there were less than a handful of registered heroin users in the village. Now at last count there were more than 600 mostly teens and in their twenties getting methadone from the doctors surgery and selling it to buy smack. Is this why our youth are being blown up by roadside bombs ??? The taliban at least kept the heroin trade in check. Since they were ejected they now loosen supply and our youth get a double dunt. Get them home now.
119

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 19:49:23
Samuel Nathanial # 118

The UN did not sanction the war in Iraq, neither was it declared illegal. No court has judged that war illegal.

If that war was illegal then our soldiers who fought that war are war criminals. I understand that that is your opinion, is that the official line of the SNP too?

Let Salmond come out and say that UK soldiers are war criminals, if, if he has the guts ...
120

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 19:52:16
Many comentators think that Al Q have moved on. They are in Somalia now amongst other places. The Taliban may be rather unpleasant but they pose no risk to us.

Al Q, like any other terrorist force are mobile and will not be defeated through conventional warfare.

We are just completely wasting our time in Afghanistan, it is not doing anything whatsoever to safeguard the UK quite the contrary.

This is America's War they started it both to take revenge for 9/11 and to secure a safe transit for oil and gas from the Caspian region via Afghanistan, which they identified as being desirable in 1998, when they also identified the requirement to have a ''stable'' Govt. IE one that did what it was told by the yanks.

And I don't think there is any necessity for Salmond to advocate a planned or phased withdrawal. This is NOT our shooting match - it is the yanks shooting match and someone needs to tell them that. We could leave tomorrow the other countries involved could step up to the plate - or not as the case may be.
121

Number 6,

Germany 09/11/2009 19:52:17
Donkey, the recent poll has the opposition to the war
at 63%. Hardly a minority,is it ?

As for scorning the US's demands that Al Megrahi (not
EL MacGrahi),the SNP were only ultimately doing what
Brown begged them to do when he asked them to free him in a "prisoner for fat contracts exchange"
122

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 19:56:36
123 You keep on posting that same nonsense Donkey.

The case against the invasion of Iraq is that the cassus belli was fabricated. It is not that the Army are war criminals.

Lord Goldsmith specifically assured the Generals that the war was legal.

No one is accusing the Army of behaving wrongly - we are accusing Blair, Campbell, Scarlett, and Goldsmith amongst others of behaving wrongly, criminally in fact.
123

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 20:00:09
Samuel Nathanial # 122 & 126

Salmond released El MacGrahi, no one else. I hope that fact will not be forgotten by any US administration and act accordingly. Now Salmond has disdained US and UK troops while at war, that speaks volumes about Salmond. Who is that idiot Salmond listening to, does he think that such stupid pronouncements benefit the population of Scotland?

Typical of the SNP to try and make political capital out of the death of a British soldier.
Five highs all round at SNP HQ when a British soldier is killed in action.

124

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 20:05:07
128 No Kenny Macaskill released Mr Al Megrahi after reading reports from the Scottish Prison Service, the Parole Board, and the Social Work Department which all recommended that he be released in line with Scots law and precedent.

The Americans didn't like it. Well so what this is not their country.
125

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 20:06:23
Observer # 127

You have a nerve saying anyone posts rubbish after your post on the mushroom story yesterday. Then you tried to blame it on others, wimp.
You have no credibility ...
126

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 20:06:36
The rest of your post is too comtemptible to comment on you are losing it quickly this evening.
127

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 20:07:41
Observer # 129

We all know the official line. Salmond wanted him out and out he went. Compassion? For whom?
128

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 20:07:59
130 You think a thread about poisonous fungi is relevant to this? How so? You are a very odd person.
129

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 20:11:21
Samuel Nathanial # 132

High fives all round at SNP HQ when anytime a British soldier is killed in action. You can't deny that, can you, because as far as you lot, the SNP, and your allies are concerned, all British soldiers are war criminals anyway.
130

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 20:12:21
Observer # 135

It is pertinent to your credibility.
131

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 20:16:32
138 I think you are taking this a tad too seriously eh no? If I was bothered about my credibility would I be on the same thread as you?

And you are bonkers BTW, absolutely bonkers.
132

,

09/11/2009 20:17:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
133

Frank Spencer and Betty,

09/11/2009 20:20:20
#127 Observer

Afghanistan was fabricated just as much as Iraq. There was no terrorists. It was the US government of Bush that was behind 911 same as it was Blairs Labour government that was behind the London bombings.

Dr Judy Wood and Dr Morgan Reynolds have proved that 911 was nothing to do with terrorists and are suing the US government for putting out lies with regard to this.

There is a bill going through the US Congress calling for a new independent inquiry into 911 based on the evidence of these two DR's.

Why do you all think that this Labour government is so against an independent inquiry into the London bombings? It is because all the evidence points towards them - Labour will be ungovernable when all the evidence regarding this comes into the mainstream soon! www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com
134

Donkey Hote,

09/11/2009 20:20:48

Salmond is a hypocrite, laying a wreath yesterday, whilst holding the opinion that UK soldiers are war criminals.
What a creep!
135

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 20:30:03
142 That's a bridge too far for me to be honest. As much as I despise Blair et al I really can't see them blowing up the London Underground themselves, although I am certainly aware of the questions surrounding 9/11.

136

Frank Spencer and Betty,

09/11/2009 20:45:03
#145

It is exactly the same as 911, terrorist exersizes on the same day which "terrorists" managed to hit exactly the same targets, at exactly the same time, as the exersize by the authorities.

Again funny how there were no terrorists on the trains and bus and the explosions were underneath the carraiges. Strange way for suicide terrorists to blow up their targets and how they managed to get shot dead miles away from the scene.

The Labour government is so against an independent inquiry into this that they refuse to hold one because they know that all the evidence points to, no terrorists, but them instead. As I said above they will be toast soon when this becomes mainstream.

Go watch 7/7 Ripple Effect at www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com very good video
137

Ian Hendry,

Boston 09/11/2009 20:55:49
We have been lied to before by this government about wars and we are being lied to again, there is nothing in Afghanistan that threatened the streets of the UK, the Taliban are not interested in the UK just in getting us out of their country..
138

Frank Spencer and Betty,

09/11/2009 21:01:24
#146 Samuel

Why am I a troll then Samuel? I happen to agree ith your posts regarding the likes of the numpty Donkey Hote.

I have been on here regularly calling these people what they rightly are - quislings!

These people slag off their own country, people and political parties for the sake of unionist parties that are funded from England. In no other country in the world would you get people doing this and that includes England.

When it comes to 911 and the London bombings I, and many others here, have been looking into this for a few years now and have sifted out the rubbish from the facts so am very knowledgeable about these subjects.

Just like the press is very dishonest and selective in what they print here about Scotland they are exactly the same when it comes to 911 and the London Bombings. The media is involved in these things. Facts nothing else - No troll here! www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com
139

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 09/11/2009 21:03:00
I think withdrawing from Afganistan would be a mistake.

Its true our troops would be safer here in the UK.

But if we surrender this vast country to the Taliban, with their terrorist allies, then we would be handing them a safe haven, a huge base.

We would be giving them the time and space to re-new, re-grow, and the chances of a second 9/11 would grow as well.

We either fight them there or at some point in the future, in our own backyard.
140

Frank Spencer and Betty,

09/11/2009 21:15:22
#152 Thomas79

Where did these terrorists that did 911 get their Direct Energy Weapon that turned the steel, concrete and people into the white dust that floated all over NY that day then?

Or are you more of an expert than Dr Judy Wood who is suing the US government regarding this then?
www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com
141

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 21:26:45
153 I am aware there are a lot of questions surrounding 9/11. I am also aware that the CIA have got form in the past for doing ultra bizarre things which hurt their own people like flooding their own country with drugs etc.

But see when you talk abour ''direct energy weapons'' you sound like something from ''Star Wars''.

Maybe work a little on the presentation?
142

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 09/11/2009 21:27:22
153 Frank Spencer and Betty,

I do not know where all the dust came from, perhaps the petrol from the plane caused an inferno with such high temperatures that stuff turned to dust.

I certainly don't think it was a 'direct enegy weapon'.


143

Observer,,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 21:30:03
152 Erm how do we go about ''surrendering'' a country to the people who live in it?

It ain't our country.

The Afghans pose no threat to us.

Al Q are from Saudi, why don't we invade them then?

Have a wee think about it.
144

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 09/11/2009 21:42:29
Observer

I disagree with you on a number of points.

I don't think its right to abandon the people of afganistan to the Taliban, who the people never elected.

Its true the vast majority of people in Afganistan wish us no harm, but the Al-Qaeda terrorist training camps inside Afghanistan not only wished us harm, but planned to attack us for many years.

again its true many members are from Saudi Arabia, but the most active training camps were in Afganistan.

If we leave, you can bet your bottom dollar these camps will be back up and running, and they will once again draw up their plans against us.
145

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 09/11/2009 21:46:07
Samuel Nathanial

Who is a London Labour type?

I support the SNP and Scottish independence actually. The SNP still support the war in Afganistan, and I agree with you, our troops do need more helicopters.
146

Labour Lies,

09/11/2009 22:05:57

#162 Samuel Nathanial

Sounds like Grahamski to me.
147

famie,

australia 09/11/2009 22:47:53
Dr.Fox says: "What message would that send to the men of violence?" If ever there was the pot calling the kettle black. The audacious language in these items is astounding. And to think that Scotland at one time produced some of the finest intellects in Europe which is really much more important than its handsome men as Vista sarcastically mentions. There are many handsome Scots and if you knew more about the backgrounds of some of the 'heartthrobs' of the film industry you would find they had Scottish connections. Jealousy is a terrible affliction.Unfortunately there are too many of the indingenous Scots who know nothing about their rich heritage with all its warts. They are content to fall into the cliches of yesteryear in their responses to what could be serious and interesting discussion. They have been so brainwashed they don't know how they contribute to their own substandard living standards on just about everything. It is heartbreaking when you know that the Scots have contributed to the elevation of human life on a level well above their numbers and yet so few seem to have a clue about this rich inheritence. Try Burns as far as influence on music and poetry and he was a revolutionary. Where are they today? Probably marketing their wares to promote their wishy washy ideas like the Irishman Bono. Our Bard had and continues to have a profound influence in the world of music Our Rabbie does sit up their among the gods and if the religous bigots who are more concerned about 'morals' would take a dooking and clean oot the fuzz in their heeds it would be a welcome relief for those who have taken the time to study and learn about our heritage which is more than the education system gave us for the most part. He was a true internationalist and could not only write but compose, dance and discuss philosophy.The Coca Cola Scots seem to prefer the history of out brave sojer laddies. It is a terrible event when people lose a loved one and yet we are becoming so immured
148

Frank Spencer and Betty,

09/11/2009 23:08:11
#155 Observer

See when you dont go and get the facts then you will never learn.

They have been testing Direct Energy Weapons in Iraq during that conflict. Dr Judy Wood is a Physicist, an expert on this. Go watch her videos, the links are at www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com She is suing the US government using her evidence, there is a bill going through the US Congress for a new independent inquiry into 911 using her evidence. There was NO PLANES at 911. See Dr Morgan Reynolds video at above link, he is also suing the US government. See also the video September Clues that shows how the plane videos were faked and not very well faked either.

It might sound far-fetched but if you do not want to find out the truth or learn what happened then just keep a closed mind. Certainly not any of the numpties you think I am.
149

Frank Spencer and Betty,

09/11/2009 23:11:13
#13 Labour Lies

Go to www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com read the last two blogs and see if you still think that!
150

peter1958,

Glasgow 09/11/2009 23:48:15
Don't worry Frank - Scotland rises as one man and thinks you are indeed a numpty. Even your fellow travellers think you are a numpty.

I spoke to your parents the other week - Wilson Keppel and Betty - and they even said you were a numpty.

And so you are.

 

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