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Swinney was 'judge, jury and executioner' over rail link, says MSP

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Published Date: 04 November 2009
By SCOTT MACNAB
FINANCE secretary John Swinney was labelled "judge, jury and executioner" as he defended his decision to cancel the Glasgow Airport Rail Link (GARL).
Mr Swinney told Holyrood's finance committee he would not reinstate GARL and compared its spiralling cost with the parliament building's overruns.

The decision to scrap the project was taken to balance the budget for the coming year, Mr Swinney s
aid yesterday, and he challenged opposition MSPs to give him alternative projects to scrap instead.

He asked Glasgow Cathcart MSP Charlie Gordon: "What project would you have sacrificed?"

Mr Gordon, a former leader of Glasgow City Council, replied: "I think you're being disingenuous, cabinet secretary. I'm talking about a dialogue between interested parties and you as judge, jury and executioner."

GARL was expected to create jobs for 1,300 people. But the SNP said scrapping the project will save £175.5 million.

Initial estimates for the railway's groundwork at Glasgow airport were £7.8m, Mr Swinney said, but these were "not comprehensive and not robust" and rose to £70m.

"It's a bit like this building, frankly. The cost estimate of this building was apparently £40m before someone had decided on the site or the design."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 November 2009 8:40 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The railways
 
1

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 03/11/2009 21:40:26
Charlie Gordon calling someone 'disingenuous'...priceless comedy!

If Charlie has some pals who could re-instate GARL (and i am sure some relatives can be found to build it) then let's hear the alternatives!

Scotland needs rid of Charlie Gordon and his ilk...Labour Glasgow man on the make...and everyone knows it!
2

The Real Rufus T Firefly,

03/11/2009 23:07:31
1Nevsky;,St Petersburg 03/11/2009 21:40:26
Charlie Gordon calling someone 'disingenuous'...priceless comedy
--------------------------------------------------

Nevsky, for the first time ever, you are correct.
3

Soosider,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 00:14:13
Another day another rerun of the GARL story, gies us peace
4

Cynicus Unbound,

04/11/2009 00:41:21
Iain Gay whistles a different tune: a Gordon for me.
5

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 04/11/2009 00:43:41
Actually Brown and Darling were judges, jury and executioners with their economic policies.
6

Anna nexr door,

04/11/2009 01:40:23
5, spot on, and with more cuts from Westminster to come, Sotland will have to put up with even more.
7

Fletty,

04/11/2009 02:25:58
Dear Labour.

You spent all the money and we are now deep in debt.

Yours realistically ,
The voters.
8

KampungHighlander,

04/11/2009 02:52:47
I can understand Charlie Gordon's concern.

The rail link would have made it much more convenient for his frequent trips to the Channel Islands to pick up his Brown Envelopes.
9

Julian.,

edinburgh 04/11/2009 04:46:01
#7

What exactly has Labour's abysmal budget record got to do with the Scottish government's ability to pay for this line?
10

steve 1511,

aberdeen 04/11/2009 05:40:03
charlie gordon of the broon envelopes,the man who resigned in disgrace brought back to the front benches by grey gray,and there is talk of wee wendy who also resigned in disgrace returning to the front benches,labour no morals,they take their lead from brown
11

DeanConinPeteFSteed,

04/11/2009 06:15:43
What I find difficult to understand is the Scottish Government put forward an idea on how they could pay off a new bridge, and used smart thinking. Then suddenly this railway is scrapped without this same method of payment being even considered.


12

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 04/11/2009 07:18:29
#9 Julian

"What exactly has Labour's abysmal budget record got to do with the Scottish government's ability to pay for this line?"

Everything.

Since Scotlands Government lives on an allowance from Labour Westminster and they have just trimmed next years block grant by 500 million the Scottish Government needs to make 500 million in cuts.
13

Marian,

04/11/2009 07:20:46
If Labour win the Glasgow North east by-election it will be a victory for their relentless negative campaigning. They have not attempted to defend their record at Westminster despite this being an election for Westminster. They have tried to get away with spreading outrageous lies claiming that somehow Glasgow is being short-changed by the SNP when the facts are that Glasgow receives a disproportionately far larger share of Scotland's budget than their population warrants i.e. 22% of the budget against a population of 12%. They also have a candidate who promises a new "contract" with the people of the area which in itself is an admission that they have neglected the area in the past. Whatever way you look at it they offer nothing to the people of Glasgow North east except for negativity.
14

Albawolf,

St Andrew 04/11/2009 07:23:03
WHAT ABOUT THE A9

NOT ONE INCH OF WHICH THE GLASGOW PARTY MADE DUAL IN 8 YEARS IN OFFICE

8 years when government expenditure went up way way way to much....

Yet not one inch did they make dual

but the M77 was spec'd, funded and BUILT...

When will they stop this grab and sit down and behave like adults...
when will they have the manners to do this...........

WHEN ????????????


15

Parallax,

Hong Kong 04/11/2009 07:25:49
'Every' developing nation that has an airport large enough for international travelers has rail-link connections to all of their major cities.
Besides -
Not to be creating jobs at this point in the economic situation is dumb. Read history.
Here:
"The Impact of Relief and Public Works Programs on Socioeconomic Welfare During the 1930s"
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~fishback/The%20Impact%20of%20Relief%20and%20Public%20Works%20Programs%20on%20Socioeconomic%20Welfare%20During%20the%201930s.html
A small excerpt from :
"Measuring the Success of the Programs.
How successful were the public works and relief programs at achieving their goals? On their face they were wildly successful. Millions of unemployed people were put to work. Large numbers of roads, buildings, post offices, and public works built in the 1930s can be found in every county in America. There is another counterfactual standard against which these projects should be measured. How much better did the local economies perform in response to work relief and public works projects than they would have had the projects not been established?

The article continues from the above URL.
16

Parallax,

Hong Kong 04/11/2009 07:30:08
Continued
"The impact of public works and relief programs extended well beyond the labor market. An added dollar of public works and relief spending in a U.S. county was associated with an increase in retail sales of roughly 40 to 50 cents. Given typical ratios of retail sales to income, this suggests that incomes in the county grew roughly 85 cents at the mean when a dollar was added to public works and relief spending. Counties with greater great public works and relief spending appeared to be more attractive to workers, as these counties experienced more in-migration during the 1930s. Recent studies of the relief programs in the largest cities suggest that spending an additional $2.5 million in year 2008 dollars (about $200,000 in 1935) on relief was associated with a reduction of one infant death, a suicide, 2.5 deaths from infectious and parasitic diseases, one death from diarrhea, and 21 property crimes. In all cases these are point estimates and the range of the true estimates is large although it does not include an effect of zero. For more details on the programs and the way these estimates were created, see the papers below."
"
17

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 04/11/2009 07:46:13
#16 Parallax

Every developing nation also has the ability to borrow money to finance infrastructure.

That is something Scotland is not allowed to due because of its devolution settlement.

The same people who are politicising the decision to kill the rail link are the same people who wish to maintain the status quo in regards to borrowing powers.

There is a lot we could achieve, if we where independent.
18

paulr,

edinburgh 04/11/2009 08:13:15
"he challenged opposition MSPs to give him alternative projects to scrap instead"

Come on "Edinburgh Trams" the prime candidate for scrapping.
The people of edinburgh dont want them, we dont need them and the majority of us wont use them.
19

Rob Veers,

04/11/2009 08:15:48
#17 KampungHighlander
In the developed world we are usually known as developed nations.Some people like to put Scotland down from a distance.
20

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 04/11/2009 08:42:18
#19 Rob Veers

If you read #15 and 16 you will see that Parallax was comparing Scotland's inability to build infrastructure with developing countries that seem to be able to.

I was not calling Scotland a developing country, simply a nation without the powers that even the poorest countries in this world have.
21

Tynietiger,

04/11/2009 08:42:19
Like Willie Bain on sending everyone found with a knife to prison but refusing to say much much this would cost to build the extra prisons, Labour have refused to say where they would cut to build an unwanted Rail Link to Glasgow Airport.

They fail to recognise that London Labour have cut the Scottish government budget by £ billion over next 2 years.
22

New Danielrober,

04/11/2009 08:43:35
"Initial estimates for the railway's groundwork at Glasgow airport were £7.8m, Mr Swinney said, but these were "not comprehensive and not robust" and rose to £70m."

Rather than two politicians blaming each other, from two very good points of view, why not ask about these prices. An increase of over 800% needs to be questioned, not only regarding cost but also regarding skill.

Then again maybe the entire problem could be solved by allowing a private company to BOO the project. If the operating company has to pay the construction bill off with income earned rather than subsidies awarded, price controls will be better.

Glasgow deserves this link as Manchester got a tram line, London has had over ground stations improved – Glasgow needs a public transport reward. This is how things are done in Europe, rewarding the population for an event that will make Scotland, UK and the EU look good.
23

puskas,

East kilbride 04/11/2009 08:52:14
No18,

1...Yes a total silence was the end product.

2...You could have changed Edinburgh Trams for...


Glasgow Garl...

Glasgow and a direct rail link has been talked about since I worked on what was then a new airport..around the late 60's.. Anyone remember the old Renfrew Airport.

Labour for 40 years at least have sat on their bum.
Yes it would be nice to have a bit of icing on the cake. Additions like Garl I'm afraid shall have to wait a little longer, whilst Westminster intends to cut Holyroods budget over coming years.



24

,

04/11/2009 09:08:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

Front Street,

Grange Court 04/11/2009 09:12:35
The good thing coming out of this Glasgow Airport rail link Saga is the colossal amount of taxpayer money being thrown at Glasgow. Not so good for Glasgow is the
fact that they are being exposed as rapacious ungrateful subsidy junkies.
26

Front Street,

Grange Court 04/11/2009 09:16:44
#22.. "rewarding the population for an event that will make Scotland, UK and the EU look good."
A two week event that will sell fewer tickets than the
Edinburgh Fringe Festival? Seems it should be Edinburgh being rewarded with direct rail link to it's airport?
27

noswod,

Honestas 04/11/2009 09:57:40
Swindle bans progress. A other major European Airports are connected tae the trains so you dinny need tae tak yer car tae them and its easy frey tourists tae get into toon and start spending money, patuculary if yer gan tae run a games wi a lot O folk frae everywhere. Railway building gees a lot O people work and railways last a long time. So Swindle gees us a road brig O the Forth and Free car parks at Hospitals but his brain canni get rood building trams tae the Hospital so you dinny need tae tak yer car. Does Swindle own a fleet O taxis ? or is he really afraid tae tax us will less immediate economic consumption but the long term benefit of infrastructure spending. Nay chance acting like a tory gee them the muney Tam stuff the future.
28

Alan B,

04/11/2009 10:06:32
Swinney"... asked Glasgow Cathcart MSP Charlie Gordon: "What project would you have sacrificed?"

And labour would not give a straight answer. Says it all.
29

New Danielrober,

04/11/2009 10:08:18
# 26 Front Street,Grange Court

It is an assumption that both the London Olympics and the Glasgow Commonwealth Games will as successful as the Manchester Commonwealth Games. These events are not guaranteed success, they take considerable local effort. Look at what happened to Liverpool as the European city of culture. It was a disaster dominated by crime, crime and crime. Now we need to put together new projects to re-launch this city, which was done in badly by its criminal element.

Glasgow will show a huge chunk of the worlds population what new Glasgow is like, as an intellectual and cultural centre, recovered from the loss of empire.

This event will make Scotland, the UK and the EU look good. Therefore yes the two week event needs backing up, if the success of Manchester is to be emulated in Glasgow.
30

Alan B,

04/11/2009 10:11:46
#noswod

Firstly it has to be paid for. If you are going to indulge in such a project you do it with all the money built up in the good economic times not when brown has put us into the biggest recession in living memory. We had tonnes of cash at the public sector in the last decade but this project was obviously low down the list of priorities.

Secondly there are far more important transport projects than this to spend cash on. A high speed link between edin and glas on both the northern and southern lines for a start. And connecting the northern line to edin airport would be far more important and relevent than the glasgow link.

Personally I do not see the glasgow link as important and could see few people who would benefit.

31

Alan B,

04/11/2009 10:14:15
#Danielrober

You do not choose to have a transport link due to a one of event. You choose to invest in a transport link due to the long term benefits.

The Dome and the Olympics are ways of spending tonnes of cash on london that would not be politically acceptable under other circumstances.

It is important that we prioritise and improve the important transport links rather than something whose benefit will be very marginal.
32

New Danielrober,

04/11/2009 10:29:28
# 31 Alan B,

If the British and Scottish government can not see the commercial value of the project then, most of us accept, these days to be a very busy time for these governments. Not only do we understand this, we respect it.

However many of us in the private sector can see the long term value of this project and would be more than willing to deliver. Yet DO NOT expect private sector people to put online or in a project proposal details of how this can be done. Its our commercial edge, which too often has been given away for very little reward.

Why not open up bidding, Scotland and the UK have the capability, skills and finance to deliver. So have an easy day and let the private sector do what it has done well since 1826 - build railways.

33

Vasey,

04/11/2009 10:55:02
paulr - 18 said
Come on "Edinburgh Trams" the prime candidate for scrapping.
The people of edinburgh dont want them, we dont need them and the majority of us wont use them.

You do realise that the SNP voted down the trams but they were pushed through by a majority of the unionist parties in Holyrood????

OF COURSE YOU DO
34

AIasdair,

04/11/2009 11:07:20
#25 & 26, "Front Street", aka "shoogles", aka "Joe Curry":

Joe -

1) why are you so obsessed with sniping at the weegies? It makes you look rather pathetic and insecure.

2) why are you so obsessed with the Airport? Trainspotters are bad enough, but you are ridiculous.

3) Why do you persistently lie about where you live? Are you ashamed to live in Livingston? In the last 6 months, you've claimed to live on "Relugas Road", in "Leith", and now up off Cawswayside in Grange Court!!
Why are you such a liar, Joe?
35

Front Street,

Grange Court 04/11/2009 11:23:01
#29..if the success of Manchester is to be emulated in Glasgow.

The Edinburgh Fringe Festival sold more tickets in the same year that Manchester held the Commonwealth Games
36

JayJay,

Right here 04/11/2009 11:30:25
Until such times as our public servants can save up for more accurate calculators, I would much prefer that they just stopped attempting to build anything. To have an estimate for groundworks rising from £7.8m to £70m does not bode terribly well for the rest of the project and suggests that the initial costings were either the work of a village idiot or, in typical Government fashion, quite deliberately low-balled to garner public support.
But as others have said, who on earth is prioritising our transport spend in this banana republic? The absurdity of a dual carriageway between our two main cities, the continuing scandal of the A9, the farce of a road between Aberdeen and Inverness....and our daft politicians want to build links to airports, pointless trams and have no difficulty blowing £450m on a monument to their own vanity at Holyrood.
Mind you, why worry when we can all bask in the reflective glory of the billions spent on road, rail and whatever for the 14 day farce that is the Olympics - because after all, that benefits the whole country. And to think, we mocked the Stalinists.
37

New Danielrober,

04/11/2009 11:35:00
# 35 Front Street,Grange Court

So what.

I’m sure Disney sells more tickets in a half year to its theme parks than Edinburgh festival sells in a decade. That’s not a good reason to abandon an excellent event. The reason you put forward for not backing the Glasgow Commonwealth Games, quite frankly are lame.
38

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 04/11/2009 11:58:49
Since most of the flights from Glasgow airport involve a stopover/change in London should Glasgow Labour not be advocating a direct rail link to London's many airports?
39

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 04/11/2009 12:26:36
"Scottsh Minister makes important decision", caused a huff from Charlie Borderline:

"Scottish Labour aren't paid to think, and Jim Murphy has never evidenced this. Therefore vote for us."
40

AIasdair,

04/11/2009 12:40:04
#37, New Danielrober - the reason he feels that way is because he's a freak. If it were through here rather than in glasgow, Joe would be all for it.
He is a hypocrite, and the most insecure and disengenuous character I've ever come across.
41

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

04/11/2009 13:52:44
Oh!
Looks like the yeah1 character has managed to close down discussion on the Glasgow NE by-election yet again.

What is it that that they are afraid of?
42

All the good names are gone,

04/11/2009 13:54:57
41

As predicted. Yeah 1 is linking BNP with SNP on every thread.
43

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 04/11/2009 14:02:28
I see that daft bampot Yeah1 has managed to get another thread pulled.
44

Observer,,

Glasgow 04/11/2009 14:04:58
He's a proven troll now just ignore.
45

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 04/11/2009 14:05:00
Quote from John:-

"The decision to scrap the project was taken to balance the budget for the coming year, Mr Swinney said yesterday, and he challenged opposition MSPs to give him alternative projects to scrap instead."

Followed by the sound of tumbleweeds from labour.

46

KampungHighlander,

04/11/2009 14:35:59
#42, 43, 44

Hopefully the moderator will pull his ticket.
47

Front Street,

Grange Court 04/11/2009 14:44:26
#37... Excellent event? For who..any 2 week event that cost Scotland's taxpayers millions of pounds if far from the excellent description.
Look at Swinney's grave face when being quizzed about the cancellation of GARL
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/scotland/newsid_8337000/8337824.stm
If I remember rightly both Swinney and Salmond were positively beaming when conveying the Edinburgh Airport
Rail link cancellation news to Holyrood. Were Glasgow labour MSPs pursuing the SNP so vigourously then?

Edinburgh festivals are excellent annual events and we as a nation should not be inconveniencing our citizens and visitors with piecemeal transport infrastructure.
48

Alan B,

04/11/2009 15:22:49
#Danielrober

You seem to have missed my point completely.

If you have resources to spend to improve rail transportation then you have priorities. For me the glasgow airport link would be a low priority.

You do not build a white elephant just becuase you can.

Why do you think this link is more important than other and too me far more important rail infrasture projects?

Why would having a link by rail be better than a regular bus service given that it is a relatively short journey along the M8 from the city centre?

As i said above having a fast link between edin and glasgow would be a far better use of resources. And something far more meaningful and economically beneficial. Having a link between that northern line and edin airport would be more beneficial too.

I just cannot see who would really benefit from this project, and how any economic advantage would be gained.

Business people coming to glasgow will mainly taxi. Business people leaving from glasgow will either taxi or drive get lift. Scottish tourist will only use it once or twice a yr and will not really want to lumber with suitcases anyway. And foreign tourists are hardly going to increase in number due to a short rail link when they could be in town with a direct bus in 20mins.
49

Alan B,

04/11/2009 15:25:38
#Danielrober

There would be a stronger argument if glasgow closed down queen street and had an enlarged central station.

It should also be a bigger priority to have a underground stop at central too.
50

New Danielrober,

04/11/2009 15:41:36
Alan.B

I used to take the bus to Glasgow Airport and I always found it more than acceptable.

If the SNP government will not / can not invest in the railways south of Glasgow and Edinburgh, at about 500 million pounds. Will it instead commit to spending 500 million pounds on upgrading the roads south of Glasgow and Edinburgh, to make buses work better?

Any planned increase in bus services will need considerable road improvements.
51

Alan B,

04/11/2009 16:01:34
#Danielrober

You would have to ask the snp what their priorities would be.

I outlined my priority and that would be a fast link between glas and edin. (also would like better links with england, fast london service and not the joke of the services to the north of england).

I also think a link to edin airport via the falkirk line should be a priority as it would give links from the stirling and trains coming to edin from a northernly direction.

I think we also need a motorway from edinburgh to newcastle probably linked through to the M1.

But the whole glasgow system is disjointed when you cannot get off at central and then jump in the underground. And with 2 unconnected train stations (central and queen street).

I used also to fly from london to glasgow for work weekly for a while and it would be very unlikely any of us would have got used the train for a variety of reasons.
52

Alan B,

04/11/2009 16:05:55
#Danielrober

With M77 from the south west and M74 from the south is glasgow not quite well provided for by motorway from the south.

The problem i would see for glasgow is the bottleneck of the kingston bridge.
53

Hobbe,

04/11/2009 16:16:01
"he challenged opposition MSPs to give him alternative projects to scrap instead"

Come on "Edinburgh Trams" the prime candidate for scrapping.
The people of edinburgh dont want them, we dont need them and the majority of us wont use them."

Er, the SNP as Scottish Government tried to scrap the useless single tram-line before it began, but was outvoted by a unionist coalition of Labour Tory and LIbdem MSP's who hoped the new scottish Government would ignore the vote and that this would lead to a vote of no confidence.

Of course this was in the days that the affected Scottish press headlines screamed that the SNP Government would only last 100 days.

The rail link for Glasgow is gone due to the cuts in spending inflicted upon us by Labour in Westminster, and the disgraced Labour MSP Charlie Gordon could have shown John Swinney what he was made of if he had answered the obviuous question "What would you cut"....but the answer can't be trams as labour pushed for them the moment the SNP became the Scottish Government, not because Labour thought trams were a solution to Edinburgh's transport problems, but because they wanted to tie up the Scottish budget.
54

TWC,

exLabour 04/11/2009 17:34:08
Scrapping the GARL was a piece of Brilliance, Westminster cuts £500M Holyrood cuts the GARL right out of the plan. No nickel and diming.

If Westminster wants Scotland to work off pocket money then give them the pocket money; if they want Scotland to control spending, give them Fiscal Autonomy.

If cost savings are available holirood should decide them and commit them.
55

New Danielrober,

04/11/2009 17:41:00
# Alan B,

Glasgow has a great transport basis upon which considerable effort can built upon. The problem is that it is a real ‘full-scale’ European city, not a chocolate box situation. Success in the full-scale European cities can be difficult to achieve and yet when it happens new European scale companies are made.

Allowing the private sector to build the railway links will be of benefit to the SNP and Labour party, Lib Dem’s and Conservatives. It will take pressure of the civil service, LA and elected officials, and a new transport company might just be launched off. These routes are rare opportunities within Europe and maybe outside interference is greater than many might assume.

These railway routes at the very least offer technology demonstration opportunities for transport companies to a world wide community.
56

Fitba Krazy,

04/11/2009 18:37:32

"Most of the lines that we decided to remove were carrying such poor levels of traffic that they ought never to have existed
Lord Beeching (1913 - 1986)"

"Richard Beeching said branch lines had no future."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2806285.stm

Now that wisnae the SNP who done that eh? Naw it wis a unionist, surprise surprise.

Who rebuilt them then? Labour? I mean they've had long enough eh? But NAW they didnae, nor did they build the line that are now complaining the SNP cannae build cos LONDON LABOUR has cut the Scottish pocket money.

How long will we have to suffer the union dividend?

That's whit I would like to know.
57

Fitba Krazy,

04/11/2009 19:31:50

Check out the link below to see what Beeching had planned.

Scroll down and see the map.

Now that's what you call cuts.

Thankfully the Highland Railway lobby managed to save some but many were still axed and there would have been very little left in Scotland had they not managed to save some.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeching_Axe


Here are some more interesting links.

http://www.muirkirk.org.uk/railways.htm

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/scotland/ourwork_scotland/access/outdooraccesscode/networkrail.htm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36844288@N00/3997814741/
58

AberdeenTom,

04/11/2009 19:48:27
John Swinney was absolutely right to take the action he did on GARL - what an absolute waste of public money, a real vanity project which would have delivered little benefit to the people of Scotland. Glasgow Airport is a declining airport whose passenger profile never suited the rail link. I'm glad Mr Swinney isn't letting the dinosaurs in the Glasgow Labour party bully him over this.
59

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 04/11/2009 22:19:35
Blame BritGov for cutting Scotland's budget! If British rule had been good for us we would have had rail links to both Edinburgh and Glasgow airports many many years ago.
60

Seannair,

04/11/2009 23:26:02
I suspect that Chick does not know what disingenuous means.
Could it be like voting for a project like the Edinburgh Trams not through any conviction that they are a worthwhile project but simply because they were seen as a way of upsetting the Scottish Government's budget. After all if trams were such a good idea why has Mr Purcell not got a scheme on the go already to replace the Glasgow tramway system?

 

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