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£4.7 million: the price of a normal family life

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Published Date: 19 June 2009
SIR Fred Goodwin yesterday agreed to a 40 per cent cut in his controversial pension in an effort to stem the public anger towards him and his family. The former Royal Bank of Scotland chief – who has been living in a secure villa on the French Riviera – has "volunteered" to cut his pension pot by £4.7 million.
His annual payout will now fall from £555,000 to £342,500, according to RBS. The banker has already withdrawn a tax-free lump sum advance of £2.7m on his pension.

Sir Fred fled Edinburgh following widespread public hostility towards his enormous payout. He also left RBS suffering the largest corporate loss in UK history.

It is understood that he and his family are desperate to return to a normal life in Edinburgh, and with little sign that hostility towards him was dissipating, Sir Fred accepted that making a public gesture of returning a portion of his pension was the best way forward. The Goodwin family has suffered amid public opprobrium.

After Sir Fred's enormous pension came to light, vandals attacked the Goodwins' £2m family home in Edinburgh, smashing windows and damaging a family car.

It was revealed at the weekend that Sir Fred has been spending time in a luxury rented villa near Cannes, guarded round the clock by security staff and dogs. His family has continued to live in Scotland, while his children attend school.

Sir Fred's decision to forgo a large chunk of his pension payouts is in stark contrast to his previous refusal to give up any of his entitlement. RBS yesterday said he approached the bank himself after being cleared by a recent internal inquiry into his conduct and pension arrangements.

The announcement came on the same day edited claims of MPs' expenses were finally published by the House of Commons, with some elected representatives – the new focus of the public's ire – facing possible police investigations. The cut in Sir Fred's payments was described by the bank as "an acceptable amount to all parties".

Gordon Brown welcomed the move and called for a more transparent rewards system in future for top bank executives. The Prime Minister said: "It is right that Sir Fred Goodwin paid back at least some of the money. This was the discretionary element agreed by RBS before he left.

"For the future, it is really important that we have a proper system of bonuses and rewards. It will be very important that the systems on which these rewards are based are far more transparent and open."

Chancellor Alistair Darling said Sir Fred was "doing the right thing", and urged RBS, which is now more than 70 per cent owned by the taxpayer, to "learn from its mistakes". He said: "What I want to do now is to make sure that we rebuild RBS and all its banking operations. That's absolutely essential, not just for the bank but for the thousands and thousands of people who work for that bank and for the economy as a whole."

Ronnie Fox, principal of Fox Lawyers, a firm of employment solicitors, said the government was guilty of "double standards". He said: "I think Sir Fred did a deal with RBS, and it looks as though the deal was approved by the government.

"I think the government has worked extremely hard to avoid taking responsibility for what happened to RBS and the financial crisis generally. Sir Fred's pension was approved by the government."

He added: "I imagine that enormous pressure was placed on Sir Fred to force him to surrender a part of his pension. I wonder about the nature of that pressure.

"With the benefit of hindsight, we are all clever. Everybody makes mistakes, and it may well be that Sir Fred made errors of judgment. But I have seen no evidence that Sir Fred broke any law or acted in breach of his obligations to RBS."

Public relations experts told The Scotsman that Sir Fred's battered reputation may be unsalvageable, suggesting he may be unable to emulate the return to public life by his former counterpart at HBOS, Andy Hornby, who last week became the chief executive of Boots.

Phil Hall, a former News of the World editor who is acting as Sir Fred's spokesman, said the former banker would not be commenting "for the foreseeable future".

The RBS chairman, Sir Philip Hampton, said: "On any measure, this represents a very substantial reduction to Fred's pension and is an acceptable amount to all parties to the discussion. I am very pleased that we have resolved a situation that has been a difficult and unhappy one for all the parties involved, and it is to Fred's credit that he has done this on a voluntary basis."

He added that the row was distracting from the task of recovering the fortunes of the stricken bank. He said: "This pension arrangement became a symbolic issue and the focus of unprecedented media and political attention.

"It had to be fixed to allow everyone to focus our energies where they should be – getting the company back to health."

The chairman added that an internal inquiry into Sir Fred's pension, actions, expenses and use of company assets had concluded recently "there was no conduct on Fred's part that would justify reducing the pension".

He said Sir Fred had wanted to wait until the conclusion of the inquiry before addressing the issue.

However, trade union Unite dismissed the pension reduction as a "small gesture".

Rob MacGregor, its national officer, said: "For the diabolical failure by Fred Goodwin, which led to the near-collapse of RBS, this small gesture represents only a fraction of the massive pension that he is walking away with.

"Goodwin will still enjoy a very comfortable future at the expense of the taxpayer."

Sir Fred's offer marks a major climbdown after he denied as early as April that he was considering any voluntary reduction in his pension – a decision that caused outcry, given the part he played in the bank's woes.

RBS was heavily exposed to toxic assets and bad debts, and disastrously bought Dutch bank ABN Amro at the top of the market in 2007, before the credit crunch struck.

Sir Fred previously maintained that he had a contractual right to the pension and he expected the bank to fulfil its obligations. In a letter to City minister Lord Myners in February, Sir Fred insisted that changes to the early retirement deal he had negotiated when he was forced out in the autumn were "not warranted".

The bank and the Treasury have since been taking legal advice on whether they could claw back some of the payment.

Sir Fred agreed to give up a year's salary lump sum, which he was due in lieu of notice, as well as certain share-related awards, when he agreed to retire early as the government stepped in to rescue the beleaguered RBS.

But there was anger over news that the RBS board chose almost to double the size of his pension pot.

If he had been dismissed, rather than leaving on agreed terms, his pension would have been substantially less – calculated at an estimated £416,000 a year.

UK Financial Investments, the body charged with managing government-owned stakes in banks, said: "We agree with the Treasury's view and are glad the bank has now resolved this matter with Sir Fred.

"It was the right thing to do. It is now time to move on and concentrate on getting RBS back to strength."

Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman Vince Cable said it was only right that Sir Fred should return part of his pension.

Mr Cable said: "This was a grotesque level of incompetence which resulted in a major bank collapsing, having to be rescued by the taxpayer at enormous public cost and a great deal of cost to many bank employees."

John Mann MP, a Labour member of the Treasury select committee, said: "This is an appropriate reduction and does begin to rehabilitate Mr Goodwin."

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1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 00:35:24

How the other half Live, or should I say the lucky few!
All one can say good luck to SIR Fred Goodwin, for masterminding His Fantastic, out_of_this_word income.
But Remember Sir Fred! You cant take it with you, when the devil calls.


2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 00:40:01

On a Lighter note!, or in this case £m-notes, think of how many a poor families, even 100th of this money could help, or put to use for 'good-causes'?

3

SILVANA,

glasgow 19/06/2009 00:40:38
He is a low life and I resent that the hard earned taxes of the UK have been used to salvage a bank that he royally screwed. Does this man have no shame at all?
4

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19/06/2009 00:56:42
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5

Dave B,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 01:20:32
The vilification has gone on long enough. The guy didn't do what every other bank chief did at the time.

They had to take risks to keep growing, or be swallowed up by some foreign bank.

No-one was complaining when RBS was doing well, and billions in taxes were flowing to the UK treasury.
6

somerferg,

perth 19/06/2009 01:44:52

Is this guy really from the Feegie Park????
7

,

19/06/2009 01:48:03
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8

Mallory,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 01:54:07
How will he manage on a half pension and £2.7m? Time for another directorship probably.
9

Forward not Back,

19/06/2009 02:37:58
Will Gordon Brown hand back his pension too for the damage he has caused?
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 03:00:27

And to think!, A large Majority of Us, Have to Survive on under £200 per week, with no benefit's, a young married couple with their first baby, struggling to make ends meet, at the same time doing their best to make an Honest Living, as the majority of us have to.
And to think!, That one extra £20 note, in a week, for a single Mother with Child, through NO fault of her own, would make a World of difference to.

What I am saying, I think that this Money that SIR Fred Goodwin has obtained, is Grotesque!, When it is, Expected, Given to out of others misery, and the Few others Greed, which should nt be allowed.



11

donald,

glasgow 19/06/2009 03:32:10
Don't forget that Labour agreed to his "legitimate expenses" out of taxpayer's money. Although he was forced into paying some of it back, like Westminster MPs, he had "done nothing wrong", by playing the 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire' game with Government funding. Labour might not look after the dwindling working class, but it sure as hell enjoys banqueting with its capitalist chums.

Labour - and its media allies - should be charged with fraudulent behaviour for daring to call itself a "socialist Party" Next time we a "benefit cheat" Government advert we should demand that the Governmrnt be added to the list.
12

Onecoolspot,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 06:54:54
I think this has to be put to bed; the guy and his family have suffered enough. The fact that his life has been threatened is shocking by today’s standard. This kind of behaviour towards another human should be treated as criminal. Mr Goodwin was doing a job for RBS he is not totally responsible for the mess it got in, though with his position he has to carry the can.

Oh yeah so the government had to bail out the bank with a 20 billion cash injection, with this the government/taxpayer owns about 70% of the bank. But wait, does that mean that the 20 billion won’t be paid back!!. No, the government/taxpayer will benefit when the share prices rise again and the stake won’t be sold until a healthy profit for the government/taxpayer.

Time will tell when that profit is made in a few years. Fred Goodwin has been made a scrape goat for the shear and utter incompetence of the UK government regulatory standards, a certain Mr. Brown was indeed - very happy when the bank (RBS) was pouring tens of billions in various taxes into the coffers. Where did all that money go during the good years?

Time to give the guy a break, and concentrate on bringing the UK government to account for the hundreds of billions wasted on failed projects since they came into power.
13

Retired from Edinburgh,

Gorgie 19/06/2009 07:33:17
It looks like Goodwin is planning a comeback with some other company considering that the guy from the Bank of Scotland has just taken over at Boots. I for one will never shop at Boots again and will not shop at any company which hires Goodwin.
14

Grumpy,

19/06/2009 07:44:24
(15) - Yes, Andy "HBOS Killer" Hornby scores OK for himself. Stuff all the shareholders who lost thousands through his incompetence, and stuff all those loyal HBOS employees now being turfed out of their jobs by Lloyds TSB.

I advise Boots shareholders to sell sell sell, before their shares go the same way as HBOS.
15

Albawolf,

St Andrews 19/06/2009 07:45:34
a 40% cut is a token gutter gesture not worth the paper it is written on.

This useless being should be in jail

He purchased ABN and didn't get the bit in Chicago - which will gain from all those contracts Illinois bound (the contracts that went to texas before late January) but this CLOWN STILL purchased ABN and all the radio-active toxic waste....

and now he gives back 40% of something he should never have had....

Not worth the paper it is written on

Bring him back
give him a brush and shovel and send him out to sweep the streets......
that would be justice........

It would also pick up the litter that is so widespread in Gordon Brown's super British state...........

Thus killing 2 birds with one stone.............

Heh it also helps the environment..........

Too good to ever happen eh.........


16

Hmm ...,

19/06/2009 07:50:08
... come on - enough of this "sympathy" for this cynical manoeuvre to substantially increase his pension from the company he destroyed by his cynical belief he could do no wrong. And to do it immediately before jumping before he was pushed...

Who needs to steal from his company when he can simply decide his own reimbursement and get his friends to back him up?

So he didn't get away with it and thinks paying some back will clear the slate!

Sounds rather like our chiselling politicians doesn't it? And they seem to think they are entitled to decide how much they take from the country too!
17

Mark Insch,

19/06/2009 07:52:27
Dave B@5 & Onecoolspot@13

Are you guys members of the same lodge as Goodwin? Or are you masterminding a nice little retirement package from your own employer?

The fact that even two posts think there is nothing wrong with an employee walking away from a company and retiring early with over £2m cash and an income of over £500,000 per annum, just sums up the greed and self-interest that is rife at present and effectively ruined a once great nation.

"But he earned it!", I hear you srcream. And how exactly did he do that? He hasn't lived long enough to work the hours that should be needed to earn such a reward.

Now that he's agreed to return some as a token gesture, we should of course, all forgive and forget - Unbelievable, just unbelieveable!!

That's my rant for today - feel better now! ;-)
18

,

19/06/2009 08:09:43
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19

,

19/06/2009 08:10:58
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20

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 19/06/2009 08:15:22
A token gesture.Living on his own in the French Riviera,clown.
21

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 08:19:19
"£4.7 million: the price of a normal family life" - Oh, does the arrogant Fred REALLY think so? And, point to note, Scotchman caption writer, Goodwin isn't a 'Banker' - he may have been responsible the biggest house of cards collapse in Banking history, but he's a lawyer and accountant by profession. Maybe that was the problem?
22

Oldhabits,

Bristol 19/06/2009 08:26:34
Nos 5 & 15
Are we really seeing the persecution of an innocent man? Was he not behind the first Rights Issue when the shareholders were deceived into believing that the sum raised would cover all losses and set the bank on its feet for the future?

Whilst Fred still is able to enjoy the fun of driving his Ferrari, I have the misery of contemplating that I have seen my last new car disappear into the distance.... Forgive him? Not Bloody likely!!

23

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 08:35:56
Oh well then , that's OK :0/

What sort of "normal family" life will the victims of his greed fueled policies be having ?

Those that have lost their jobs.home., and had their family life ruined, smug swine
24

Jay Kay,

19/06/2009 08:38:29
Oh aye lets all feel so sorry for poor Fred, poor bu**er eh! what a shame.

He will be lucky if he can show his face in Scotland again without it getting punched of his head.

How many people lost their jobs again all because of this odeous creep.
25

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 19/06/2009 08:42:14
Somehow I don't think giving up part of a massive pension, having already extricated £2.7M is really suffering enough to allow him and his family to return to Edinburgh. I don't think the welcome mat is going to be out.

Instead of loading sympathy on him we should realise that he presided over a fake empire which collapsed causing the need for a massive taxpayer-funded bailout i.e. you and me, loss of jobs, losses in savings and investments - many held by pensioners (and he is one himself, albeit on lottery win money) and a plunging share value which is only just starting to recover in fits and starts.

No - he does not deserve any forgiveness, only opprobium until he accepts only a meagre (in his terms) pension which reflects a truer value to society. Why has he still got a knighthood?
26

Gordon100,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 08:56:42
He tried and failed - failed badly but how many contributors here have anywhere near his ambition. It’s not as if he was the lone risk taker – most bankers got it wrong – as did most folk in the west - oh the hindsight and the grievances of the bystander. They have little self-awareness of how ridiculous they are. As ridiculous as Sir Fred but at least he is suffering. Have some perspective, pity and intelligence.
27

ianpg,

Musselburgh 19/06/2009 08:57:24
Too little, too late. This thieving, incompetent lowlife should stay in the south of France where he can mingle with the russian mafia and other crime bosses.
It surprises me that so many comments suggest we should all forgive and forget. I would guess they originate from people who don't realise the scale of what Goodwin got up to or who haven't suffered the implications.
28

Boy Wonder,

19/06/2009 09:06:51
It's not enough. £2.7 million salted away is MORE than he and his family need to live the good life several times over.

Give him no more!

And always remember ... he was the leader of the RobBerS.
29

Oldhabits,

Bristol 19/06/2009 09:08:34
#28

Ridiculous comment!! You have got to be kidding!! Is it that you are just a mischievious wind-up merchant? If you had had lost anything as a result of this idiot's endeavours you would not have posted such nonsense. As for intelligence, obviously you have none!!
30

SimonHurrll,

South 19/06/2009 09:11:05
This is still immoral.

This man was incompetent and seems to have got away with it.

The Public must now act and go for this man and seek a legal prosecution.
31

Willie Mor,

19/06/2009 09:23:22
Maybe if he could return the life savings that millions of ordinary citizens lost through his corporate fraud then he might feel safe.

But he can't, and he won't.

This guy is a crook, and like child abusers, he will not be forgiven.
32

James Johnston,

The Gyle 19/06/2009 09:32:07
Sir Fred's stewardship of the bank was such that without Govt support it would have gone under. It wasn't allowed to go under because of the chaos that would have followed.

If the market forces that Sir Fred and others so enthisiastically support had been allowed to operate then Sir Fred's pension would have been £27K per year. Essentially the fact that his pension was £700K in the first place was an unintentional consequence of the kind of Govt action that bankers and business people had spent most of the Thatcher/Major/Blair deploring and denouncing.

He would regain my respect if he capped his pension at the level that he actually earned ie £27K per annum. Lots of people live on this type of salary and as a sadder and wiser 50 something there would be nothing to stop him re-entering the job market. I don't see this happening any time soon.

I wonder how embarassed Sir Fred feels now at this obseqious and ludicrously over the top tribute from Glasgow University

"Having seen for himself how banking can go spectacularly wrong, Fred Goodwin obviously decided to show the business world how to do it properly the rest is the stuff of corporate legends"

See

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/8514/response/21940/attach/10/Oration%20p.1_%2019.06.2002.pdf

for full story
33

Paesano,

19/06/2009 10:06:36
#19 utter ignorance.

Don't be shocked when those far better qualified and able earn a lot more than you. And equally don't be surprised that they build up a larger pension pot than you as a result.

His pension pot is not purely down to his time at RBS. He has had other very well remunerated positions. His first being as a partner at Deloitte - As a partnership why don't you just leave it up to the partners to agree on their retirement benefits as paid for by their profits, or is that still out of order?

He is subject to the same laws as you and I. He was and is legally entitled to all of it end of story. If you want to enact something that allows you to retract significant monies from your earned income / pension pool when you are forced out of your job then the floodgates will open.

The whole credit crunch saga has been dumbed down by the media to feed to the masses and they (& Government) have assisted in supplying a few villans to the story for good measure. Great job. While those critical involved in the various processes that actually underpin the whole problem may remain nameless and just walk away. There should be far more anger directed to those that irresponsibly securitised the debts, to the credit agencies that handed out superb ratings without so much as looking at them etc etc.

Goodwin's error starts and stops with ABN - else it was same situation as any other bank. Barclays could so easily have been in same position instead. Yes he is to blame for errors in judgement but there are a considerable number that have done far worse that have not been targetting in the same manner. Certainly from a media point of view they would struggle to explain it in a simplified manner to get the same resentment - far easier to write about Goodwin and a big pension.

So those that can judge him in a fairer manner are not his buddies or members of the same lodge - just people who have a bit more of a clue about the detail.
34

Armageddon,

Tobermory 19/06/2009 10:09:30
What a massive offer by Fred. must be down to his last 3 million...he deserves nothing...except to be shunned and detested untill the end of time....dirty filthy scumbag

Maybe he should read Dante...Goodwin should be encased in ice, his eyes open to witness the enormity of his crimes forever....and I would like my savings back thanks.
35

nostress,

grangemouth 19/06/2009 10:19:51
I really don't see where we're getting so het up about this guy...it's not as if he were a public servant like an MP - he was an employee of a private company and when the good times were rolling the shareholders and indeed the Labour chancellor, one Gordon Brown, were delighted with the axe-wielding she_ite. Nobody at the time said what he was earning was obscene.

Somebody said he was immoral...well in the capitalist system he wasn't unusual and while you might criticise his methods, his morals were fine by the standards set by the City - after all, money matters more than people in capitalism, always has and always will.

It's also not his fault that Labour decided to use our taxes to bail out the banks - thus condemning the UK to total financial collapse in the near future as the debts mount up inexorably.

If you want to blame anyone, blame Brown. He oversaw the smoke and mirrors economy for over a decade and stole hard earned money from pensions to fund an illegal war which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousdands of innocent people. But as I said, in the weird wonderful world we live in, human beings don't really count for much. Just money, just profit, just greed.

Goodwin at the end of the day is just another arrogant, greedy little piece of dirt - but Labour loved him!



36

Media at One,

19/06/2009 10:21:26
Goodwin - What an idiot, he should have kept it all. That pension was agreed upon long before any crisis began.
He didnt cause this problem, people who live beyond their means within a government that let them did it.
He should have kept the money
37

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 10:26:22
It is absolutely dispicable that this man has to give up nearly half his pension due to the rantings of insane, rabid morons.

#38 is spot on.
38

JayJay,

Right here 19/06/2009 10:29:55
#35
I worked with the great man at Clydesdale and have first hand experience of his "management style". Of course those in Melbourne applauded the outcomes, but for Fred the end goal of a reduction in the cost income ratio justified his utterly heartless conduct. From routine humiliations of senior staff, mean spirited cuts across the organisation through to an ongoing process of redundancy, Fred showed little regard or respect for his team. I suspect the old Fred, and not this snivelling, repentant shell that we now see, would have had little sympathy for his present plight. He would have told anyone else to just get on with it or leave and stop whining. I can tell you that I have worked in many places, but have never encountered a boss who was so universally loathed by just about everyone in the bank, top to bottom.
But nonethless, this "gesture" is, for my money, a precursor to him taking up some new, fabulously remunerated position. And the great thing is, like so many of our other top execs, it does not seem to matter what these people do, they will always be regarded as "great guys". By any standard, Fred's destruction of RBS is epic failure. And he can't, due to his absurd insistence on micro management, blame ABN Amro, or their mad dependence on wholesale debt on a Nick Leeson type character. This was all Fred, and he has shown precious little humility for his work.
I don't doubt he "earned" part of this pension. The morality of people scooping massive salaries and benefits whilst trampling over everyone else is something I think everyone is entitled to be annoyed about.
39

Media at One,

19/06/2009 10:45:32
JayJay - Encase you didnt notice, the entire world collapsed, not just RBS!
Fred Goodwin did alright in my book, or as well as he could have within the current climate.
40

Paesano,

19/06/2009 10:47:35
#40 Many of us do/have worked for equally ruthless bosses. If you have such an issue with your treatment at their hands then it is up to you to assess your case and sort out if need be. But don't merge it with different issues.

What you can't do is add that to the list of sound reasons he should be terrorised into repaying an earned pension. Sure if you dislike the guy have a chuckle at him repaying some of it or having his house vandalised etc. but don't think for a minute that that is not a measure of your own morality - and certainly don't fool yourself into believing it makes for a compelling argument for justifying such a handback.
41

ianpg,

Musselburgh 19/06/2009 11:04:39
#35
Are you suggesting that Goodwin would have received this indecent pension pot if RBS had been allowed to go bust? You probably work in the financial sector and as a consequence, I suspect you know a lot less than you think you know!
42

Rolland,

19/06/2009 11:10:21
#13 "the guy and his family have suffered enough."

Tell that to the 1000's that are now unemployed and stuggling to put food on the table never mind keep a roof over their head as a result of Fred and other fat cat's greed. Oh he has suffered so much, having to go on an extended holiday.

Tell that to the 1000's of children that will miss out on even the most modest of holidays for years to come as a result of Fred and other like him greed.

This man and his family have suffered in no way whatsoever. His actions are disgusting and if he thinks those now out of a job will feel he has done the right thing then he can think again.
43

Willie Mor,

19/06/2009 11:19:38
#34

Too right about our comments that had market forces been allowed to operate then Goodwin's pension would have been capped at around £27k per annum.

Of course the government intervened with our money and in consequence their pal was awarded £2,000k a day pension.

No wonder the public outrage will not die down despite what Goodwin now tries to do.

And no doubt there will be many who having lost their life savings because of Goodwin's corporate fraud,would welcome the opportunity of discussing the matter with him.

Of course Goodwin knows this, and that is why he has fled the country and is holed up with 24 hour security guards and dogs.

Yes, like child abusers he will not be forgiven!
44

Paesano,

19/06/2009 11:21:35
#43 And I suspect you know very little outright - on this subject or much else. Keep guessing.

Stick to known facts. RBS is alive and well and remains a quoted stock. If you get off imagining alternative scenarios to the past then knock yourself out but don't ask me to join in your fantasies!
45

Gordon Clifford,

Denia Spain 19/06/2009 11:25:39
This is a very small act of contrition, let us be quite clear, Goodwin as Chairman was TOTALLY responsible for the collapse of RSS and the ensuing misery for thousands of people. This whole episode will only end when he is brought to book for gross dereliction of duty under the Companies Act 2006 notably Part 2 Section 174 Duty to Exercise Reasonable Care, Skill Diligence. He did none of these, instead he and the Board of Directors took unevaluated risks for the sake of profit and bonuses. The only thing that will make Goodwin suffer is to be brought before the courts.
46

ianpg,

Musselburgh 19/06/2009 11:40:20
#46

So everybody is stupid except you! You just don't get it do you?
First of all. the only reason RBS is now trading is because they were rescued by public money.
Second. What annoys people is the fact that it is their tax contributions - not discretionary income - that will be used to fund Goodwin's extremely comfortable retirement.
If your going to comment in these columns, at least get the facts right.
47

Warden Resurrected,

19/06/2009 11:56:41
Immoral unless it is your own.
48

Paesano,

19/06/2009 11:58:12
#48 You brought up the issue of lack of knowledge.

1. Yes public money was invested. This HAPPENED - so you don't need to ar$e around with theoritcial "ah but what if it failed" pointless excursions of stupidity.
2. Goodwin had a service agreement defining the contractual basis upon which he was employed, this & additional agreements defined the pension contribution levels for him and his employer, RBS. If you can find a legal basis which prevents him being entitled to his pension in full then please share - because many legal advisors were paid to find a basis and couldn't.

If you're going to comment on articles it is most beneficial to stick to what happened rather than how it plays out in your head.
49

Gordon Clifford,

Denai Spain 19/06/2009 12:03:34
#46

Read the post again, I was talking about the cause NOT the effect, if Goodwin had carried his legal responsibilities it is entirely possible that RBS would not have failed and the taxpayer would not have been footing the bill. It is because of what Goodwin and the Board of Directors DID NOT DO, that is the cause of the banks collapse.

Please try to read AND understand before making derogatory comments
50

Paesano,

19/06/2009 12:06:13
#52 Gordon Clifford - I haven't commented on anything you have written
51

Gordon Clifford,

Denai Spain 19/06/2009 12:15:44
#53

My apologies....another 'Senior Moment' I will definately try to do better in future
52

malcyh,

19/06/2009 12:17:34
Chancellor Alistair Darling said Sir Fred was "doing the right thing",
And how exactly woud the Chancellor know - pity he didn't practice what he preached!
53

Kobi.,

19/06/2009 12:28:05
Would rather have Goodwin running the country than Brown, frankly.
54

Kobi.,

19/06/2009 12:45:28
#56

She's got a better grasp of economics than him anyway.
55

Onecoolspot,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 13:27:42
In the cold light of day, he messed up big time. He being the head of an organisation is more than carrying the can for his failure. Goes he really deserves to have his life threatened any more than any other failed servant of corporate greed.

Yes, I have been very seriously affected by his error of judgement and yes I do wish that he was more severely punished financially but hey. His contracts were legally binding.

As I said before, it was ok when things were going good - few people complained, least of all those who irresponsibly living in fantasy land taking loans and living beyond their means. And shareholders who were reaping the cash dividends. Now you are all squealing.
Each and every person getting into debt makes that decision based on taking a risk. Win or lose your risk.
I and my family still suffer financially because of the risk I took and I am responsible for that and moving on. He is no different from those MP`s who have been robbing the expenses system for years. and that’s the irony - while they the MP`s were lining their own pockets, they were condemning Fred for his failure. This is the usual double standards of the UK at large today.


56

mafuta,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 13:38:58
#7 Fair, would be him locked in Saughton.
57

Itsanobrainer-Vote SNP,

19/06/2009 13:40:04
Off topic this but as many people as possible must see this. Newsnight Scotland last night, Eric Joyce this is hilarious and a must see. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm20dU5O9MU
58

Finlang,

Hong Kong 19/06/2009 14:53:23
To the pair of posters above (#13 & #28/60) who bemoan Goodwin's "suffering", I'd ask which planet you are on, but that would be pointless.

Every last one of us would be deliriously happy with Goodwin's undeserved fortune, and "suffer" gladly the accompanying flak. Such flak will anyway dissipate and vanish in time as the world moves on and Goodwin continues to bask in the sunshine of his ill-gotten gains. I like many others lost mightily, thanks to the likes of Goodwin, who contentedly played fast and loose with other people's money with little or no risk to themselves.

For failure to be rewarded, and rewarded on this scale, is an appalling reflection of UK society today. Ask a politician (if he/she hasn't already blacked out the detail).

59

JayJay,

Right here 19/06/2009 15:39:34
#41
Nice go at a wind up - must try harder.
#42
Sorry, I appreciate that tough bosses exist, but Fred was/is something else. A man so assured of his own greatness he was utterly impervious to criticism. I hope I am wrong, but in my experience of the man, he will not feel in any way personally responsible for the mayhem at RBS, and I sincerely believe this "gesture" with the pension is more driven by a desire to remove any scrutiny in the courts of the most contentious element of his exit payment (that bit that his chums in the board awarded without recourse to any remuneration committee and with the full connivance of Myners).
I agree with you. The torch burning mob have personalised the whole issue of abject failure of corporate governance and regulation onto one man and that is quite wrong when there are so many other targets. Elements of his pension were earned pre-RBS, and it is quite wrong to be irrational about money to which he is legally entitled. My main beef is why such individuals are so massively remunerated in the first place. Only last week, Bob Diamond scooped £20m plus in a bonus and Goodwin's replacement at RBS has been rewarded with the usual 7 figure salary plus squillions of share options. Who on earth, in all of this fiasco, has given proof positive that these pinstiped geniuses are actually worth such massive bungs when there appears to be no obvious downside for them when they screw it all up? Can't the eejits in Downing Street understand that size of wallet does not correspond necessarily to ability?
60

Alanski2005,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 21:22:39
This 'Sir' Fred Goodwin, is the lowest form of scum you can get - he should be in jail, along with many other parasites in the banking business and politics. A megalomaniac who is no use to anybody, his soul is rotten and he should never come back to Scotland. Corruption - do you understand that word Fred? - it applies to you and all your vile contemporaries.
61

Ewen Miler,

Wilts 19/06/2009 21:27:21
As usual Joe Bloggs gets hammered - job losses; tax increases and public services cut to pay for The Shred's mess-up.

And he still has a cool pension and pay-off. Rip-off Britain, right enough!
62

Ewen Miler,

Wilts 19/06/2009 21:38:51
#62.

Mr Joyce: another one who needs to go! Needs a shave also.
63

Edinburghs only big team,

19/06/2009 22:34:31
#62 Can I suggest a name change?

nobrains-Vote SNP?
64

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 22:56:48
I am no fan of goodwin - his bank ripped me off and left me for dead about 15 years ago. I am still alive and he is corporately dead.

But it does strike me as very hypocritical of some folk here to bemoan the pension of a top executive in a muti-billion pound industry that is belittled by a failed premier league football managers payoff. Both are disgusting but we seem to forgive the failed football manager his payoff .... that says alot for society.

We call captains of industry and service 'fat cats' because they earn £600,000 a year but don't question supermodels earning £6 million a year peddling goods we don't need at prices we can't afford but folk buy them on credit ... What does that say about us ?
65

Pocketrocket,

Dublin 19/06/2009 23:37:31
Sir Fred... I did a whip around for you considering the circumstances and guess what,you now owe me 2.5 million.
cheers pals. fiftys will do fine.
66

Scottyt,

Saint Paul, 20/06/2009 00:11:23
Excuse me No. 13; "the guy and his family have suffered enough"??????????????????? I am certain all the folk made redundant because of dear Freddie would not quite agree with you. HE is "suffering" at his rented villa on the French Riviera and a luxury one at that while his family are at home in Edinburgh. I wouldn't mind "suffering" like that and loads of others would too. I couldn't afford a villa of any type at any time in my life; I'm not a thief or a cheat. There isn't enough suffering on this earth for a sleaze like this one. Charles L. is quite right in his posts. This SIR should be stripped of the blasted title and give ALL of his pension back; and he'd still be outliving most of us.
67

Lateinos,

The Red Hot City 20/06/2009 11:36:23
In truth, he should have been 'sacked'.

Could he have had any complaints?

In such a circumstance he might expect to receive no Pension - same as the rest of the population...

Some might think he (and the rest of the current Board) have had it too easy - I, on the other hand might not like to comment...

Did I really hear that the current incumbents expect an 'increase/ enhance' in their incentive schemes in order to better motivate their 'performance'?

Risible

Send them down...
68

S.M.D.,

Edinburgh 20/06/2009 12:21:32
#71

Quite agree.....even if he'd had given back ALL his pension pot, he'd still have a much more comfortable life than most of the rest of us.
If this would have happened to another employee, than they'd been sacked with NO money, so why pussiefoot around him? He's had a very comfortable life so far of RBS -getting run into the ground-!

 

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