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Green Scotland 'can power whole of UK'



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Published Date: 03 April 2008
SCOTLAND could become the global leader in the fight against climate change by producing ten times as much electricity from renewables as the country needs, Alex Salmond claimed last night.
The First Minister said he wanted Scotland to become a "global advocate" for renewable energy and suggested there was so much potential in this sector that the country could not only become self-sufficient but could also produce enough electricity
for the whole of Britain.

Mr Salmond was addressing the National Geographic Society in Washington, the last of three set-piece speeches he has delivered during the promotional Scotland Week events.

The First Minister said: "Scotland has an incredible potential in renewable energy generation. In total, we have the potential to generate as much as 60GW from across the sector – ten times our peak electricity demand.

"We are a small nation but we have no need to think small.

"On renewables, we will think big – reaching out beyond our borders, sharing ideas, expertise and commercial know-how."

Mr Salmond said he wanted Scotland to take on two roles – leading the arguments for renewables and pushing the boundaries of innovation.

To emphasise this point, he announced that the Scottish Government would put up £10 million to fund the world's biggest single prize for innovation in marine energy.

The First Minister said that the Saltire Prize would be awarded to a company developing the best way of translating wave or tidal power into electricity – providing the design was demonstrated in Scotland.

The criteria for the prize will now be worked out by an expert committee, the first members of which will be Terry Garcia, head of global missions at National Geographic, and Professor Anne Glover, Scotland's chief scientific adviser.

There have been other prize funds connected to global warming. Sir Richard Branson has launched the Virgin Earth Challenge for the first person or organisation to come up with a way of "scrubbing" greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere, while the US Congress has created the H Prize on hydrogen technology, and the X Prize Foundation launched a new prize to explore fuel efficiency.

However, this is the first time that an award of this magnitude has been offered for marine renewables.

The First Minister said: "The Saltire Prize is the Scottish Government's way of playing its part in inspiring a revolution in clean, green energy as the world enters a new golden age in innovation prizes."

He added: "Our Saltire Prize is a call to action to scientists around the world to help bring the power of the seas around Scotland – and indeed the United States – online that much sooner."

Patrick Harvie, a Green MSP, said last night that Mr Salmond was right about the potential of renewable energy, but it needed someone more committed to green issues to deliver the strategy that was necessary to achieve results.

He added: "If you wanted someone to talk a good game about the potential while existing technologies are finding it difficult to get planning approval, then Alex Salmond would be the man."





The full article contains 515 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Stepford Nat..,

03/04/2008 00:20:46
What, Hamish? This seems to reflect the great man well!
He's brilliant, isn't he?
2

truthsleuth,

03/04/2008 00:31:25
Dream dream dream
The mans a egotist
His claim is wild beyond belief.
3

Highland MightyÂ,

03/04/2008 00:50:37
Alex Salmond is not a chancer.

Bears do not defecate in the woods.

The head of Rome's church, in fact, is an agnostic.
4

Jock 107,

03/04/2008 00:55:45
3 Highland MightyÂ

I wonder has Jock Swinney allowed for this in his budget.

And what does the head of Romes' church do in the woods?
5

Castaway,

03/04/2008 01:11:22
Scotlands energy demand - The power required on that one day (usually the coldest day of the year) of max demand is between 2.7GW to 5GW and on the min demand day (usually the warmest day of the year) 1.8GW to 3.0GW.
Scotland’s generating capacity is 11 GW.
Scotland's nuclear power stations account for 2.4 GW.
Coal fired stations (Longannet and Cockenzie), with a capacity of 3.5GW
Peterhead can produce up to 1.5GW from oil/gas.
Scotland’s Energy Reserves
Oil: 62.4% of the EU’s proven reserves
Gas: 12.5% of the EU’s proven reserves
Coal: 69% of UK reserves and 8.3% of EU
Wind: 25% of EU’s potential (36GW)
Wave: 10% of EU’s potential (14GW)
Tidal: 25% of EU’s potential (7.5GW)

Scotlands present nuclear power stations are base load, that is they cannot follow the hourly/daily fluctuations in energy demand it is left up to coal fired stations to adjust their output to cope.
6

Stepford Nat..,

03/04/2008 01:28:51
4 Jock 107

I've stayed up to read this many times now.
Alex can do no wrong, John is nearly as great.
7

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 01:57:08
An excellent choice, wave and tidal energy is the one area of the renewables equasion that is still in its infancy and initial work has shown to have great potential. There are even a number of Scottish Players in this burgeoning industry such as Wavegen and Lunar Energy that may well win the prize.

SNP government proving the viability of alternative energy.

Labour government proving that leather is not a viable material for making Kilts. At least if you don't want to be laughed at.
8

Hen Mc Stoorie,

Port William 03/04/2008 02:04:02
A true statesman is our Alec, this is a brilliant idea.
Pity Nicol Stevens didnt think so too.
Can't wait to hear Bendys reply.
9

jerrymanders,

Oil be damned. 03/04/2008 02:13:56
Let's be honest. We are not going to stop pollution. We are building more cars. We are building more runways and flying more planes. Third World countries want to become Second World countries. Second World countries want to become First World countries. The demand is ever higher. Oh, and the population keeps on rising at an alarming rate. We cannot stop it. We will reach our peak soon, and then, having had our time, die out. Mother Earth will continue. Such is life. Unless of course Global Warming is natural and we actually have no part in it?
10

,

03/04/2008 02:20:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

Edward,

03/04/2008 02:45:52
Thought that Gordon Brewer on last nights Newsnight Scotland, came accross just a tad to partisan. At some points trying to make it political with some jibes against the SNP government. Thankfully was made to look silly by th every enthusiastic man from the National Geographic, despite every attempt by Gordon Brewer to twist the arguement agaisnt the Scottish Government. Also interesting was a filmed interview with Proff Brydon of Edinburgh University, which due to editing looked as if he wasnt in favour, but when he was 'live' in the Edinburgh studio looked uncomfortable and was actaully praising the prize, which of course Brewer didnt like.
Ive a feeling that the BBC didnt explain to Prof Brydon earlier during the filmed piece as to what he was to talk about
http://news.national
geographic.com/news/
2008/04/080402-scotl
and-prize.html
12

Edward,

03/04/2008 02:46:16
Also interesting from the Newsnight program was the insinuation that this idea of a prize had not been thouhgt through as there were not buch in detail. But reading elsewhere, where it has been reported in more detail. More details will come out during the launch at Edinburgh Castle in November (something omitted by Gordon Brewer)
http://wildsingapore
news.blogspot.com/20
08/04/20-million-pri
ze-for-renewable-oce
an.html
13

Castaway,

03/04/2008 03:20:16
#8:Can't wait to hear Bendys reply - I think you will find that David Cairns is speaking on her behalf.
14

calum,

03/04/2008 06:19:57
Geothermal technology, that's the awy forward. No residuals, no pollution, here as long as the planet is here, efficient, little visual impact ........ better than all the rest.
15

McX,

03/04/2008 06:20:59
Enthusiasm and ambition were the buzz words from Mr Garcia of the National Geographic, doom, gloom and dependency seemed to fit Messrs Brewer and Wilson.

I honestly thought that this plan would receive cross party support, how naive was I? Even Patrick Harvie's infantile comments are a surprise.

The National Geographic has some 400 million subscribers through print, television and internet, some eighty times Scotland's population.

To achieve such breathtaking enthusiasm from such a globally important influence maker is simply brilliant news for Scotland, whichever side of the political divide you sit on.

16

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 03/04/2008 07:00:59
Let SNP fund the necessary R&D for submarine turbines. WE can the build them and sell them to the world.

But I bet the SNP sits on its hands, fiddling while the plant burns. A disgrace of a Party.
17

McX,

03/04/2008 07:10:03
#16 eh?

NAUOAN sorry old bean but that just comes across as dribbling mentalism.

Do you think the prize is a bad idea?
18

danielrober,

03/04/2008 07:35:39
'Mr Salmond said he wanted Scotland to take on two roles – leading the arguments for renewables and pushing the boundaries of innovation.'

Clever, one should never underestimate elected politicans.
19

danielrober,

03/04/2008 07:36:51
Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation

I see its your turn this week to be surrounded by the trols.
20

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 03/04/2008 07:48:17
Well said Rules.

What lacklustre government from the 'g'nats eh!

No innovation at all.


...wait a minute, Iv'e just actually read the article and it appears they are supporting innovation

What are you talking about Rules?, did you read it?
21

McX,

03/04/2008 07:48:58
#19 Jings, such temerity from one so vapid.

Presumably you don't see this prize promoting much need investment in Green technology, perspicaciously?

Sorry for the alliteration...
22

Kenny A,

03/04/2008 08:12:09
14 Calum, good point but my understanding was most of Scotland beyond the Highland line was simply to old for this unless the wells were set at some serious depths, Lewesian Gneiss the shield rock is, I think the third oldest on earth after Greenland which it was connected to and a place in Australia which I dont think it was.

Tidal power is the way ahead without a doubt, the tides are regular and getting higher and stronger. Some may argue this but it is a fact, I still keep in touch with my brother who has been a captain at sea for over 30 years and he is adament that this is the fact. These guys should know.

The ongoing I am greener than thee carryon should be shelved and alternative energy source which do not disturb the valuable birdies and heaven forbid the people should be developed. The technology for tidal power has been about for years, the grants have not.

I have a doubt about what Mr Salmond sprouted but who knows.
23

danielrober,

03/04/2008 08:14:21
# 21 McX,

Whats wrong? Are you not use to debating with technical people? Or are you past decisions catching up with you.
24

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 03/04/2008 08:25:05
(What is a troll?)

I see that posters can't distinguish between political spin and obfuscation, and political will and action.

A prize! How is that going to heat a single home? We already have dozens of great ideas just waiting for the government to sponsor turning them into reality.

SNP talks a good game, but never goes goes near an actual ball. Pathetic. No wonder only 15% of us voted for them last time (numpties).
25

danielrober,

03/04/2008 08:37:09
A troll, as my age range would define it, is some one with rocks for brains. Now that can be gold or silver ore. But still rocks therefore requiring work (education) to draw out the value.

These guys are worth chatting too, as their point of view is valid and often educated. But a degee is the classics, is not the same as a degree in engineeing, when discussing 'hard tech' problems. Yet the same peson might come up with a great 'soft tech' idea as they are no weighed down by technical dogma.

As i said, about Alex.S, clever elected politicans - leading argument, nice.

Catch up with your posts later.
26

troll,

trollvegan 03/04/2008 08:42:26
Ve the peace lowings Trolls of the North must complain about the flippant and sacrilegous vay you keep using the name of our fine and ancient species in vain.

Ve have not invaded Iraq or even Bergen in centuries, ve hafe stayed quietly under our bridges munching qvietly on rocks, no handouts vor us.

Vhy does eferybody keep insulting us, are ve not human also. Vell no ve are not but that is no excuse. I am going up to complain to the local Thing abovt dis and then burn my vra. I hate you squidgy little things with no taste in archectuture vho always insult vs.

I hope Gordon Brown become your Prime President, be prudent in all Things. Good by squidgy ones and remember do not insult us or the burning vra gouls gome through your letterbox, if it is Tvelve feets of the ground off course.

Troll

Please sign my petition for a new bridge and bring back more hovses and carts please.

www.newtrollbridgeformeplease/bridge@visax.co.no

27

danielrober,

03/04/2008 08:58:24
# 26

Appoligies to your culture, i was affected by Dwarf tutors as a young lad.

P.S. How the bridge taxing business going?
28

Unimpressed one,

03/04/2008 09:05:56
Salmond is getting carried away with the renewables spin again. Tidal power may have future potential for island communities, but that will be it. For the rest of us it will be reliable nuclear and clean coal, whether the nats like it or not.
29

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 09:11:35
'The First Minister said that the Saltire Prize would be awarded to a company developing the best way of translating wave or tidal power into electricity'

What are the criteria?

How will they determine 'the best way'?

Also, why 'a company', rather than 'the company'?
30

JohnMcDonald,

London 03/04/2008 09:17:00
I think it's called Wikinomics. Using the power of new communications to get answers to problems from as wide a community as possible.

And I am really impressed that the Scottish Government is utilising one of the effects of globilisation to benefit both Scotland and the world. Here is evidence that globilisation is actually a driver of national self-determination and not a block.

The £10m will pay back many many times that original investment. But it also shows what benefits can derive from having our own government albeit, for the moment, a limited one.
31

Alan B,

03/04/2008 09:17:19
After 17yrs of Tory government and 10yrs of labour, it is good to see what a decent leader can do for scotland. It is embarrassing how bad the tory and labour parties were. To make it worse we can see the difference between the appalling and snide brown and salmond who actually seems competent. A first for a political leader in scotland in my lifetime.
32

Saoghal Beag,

03/04/2008 09:29:49
5 Castaway you missed out hydro which meets surge demands and acts as storage for generation from other sources.

Nuclear is a huge white elephant producing less than 20% of their generation capacity last year through safety concerns and unplanned down time. So effectively less reliable than wind.

Tidal will give a more predictable generation pattern. The new kincardine bridge should have had turbines incorporated into its piers for a start. An ideal place directly feeding into the grid where the infrastructure already exists and within the central belt. A sadly missed opportunity.
33

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 03/04/2008 09:33:29
#28

Submarine turbines run on ocean currents not tides. They therefore run all the time and can be sited all round the UK below shipping. They will provide sanctuary for fish stocks and ALL our electricity without being a blot on the skyline. They can all be designed and built in Scotland, from girders.

Nuclear/coal are at best temporary solutions, turbines are permanent.
34

Stepford Nat..,

03/04/2008 09:39:04
31 Alan B

Yes, he's the greatest living scot ever, isn't he?
Wendy is rubbish
35

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 03/04/2008 09:53:36
AS impresses me more and more; so refreshing not to be feeling shame and/or disappointment about a politician. It might seem obvious to most of us that renewables are the only rational way forward but here comes a man with vision and ambition for Scotland.
36

Upbeat,

03/04/2008 09:53:37
The £10 million prize.... paid for by who ?

Yet another example of the "cookie jar" approach to Government. No government can be accused of doing nothing when they can point to nebulous sums of money earmarked for specific policy goals.

None of this brings any of the goals any closer, or assists those who are struggling to raise R&D funds. All it does is makes politicians happy, sheltereing under an umbrella that deflects criticism. This prize will in the very end perhaps be a bonus for the one enterprise that will already have developed a sound engineering solution. A "goodboy" cookie nothing more.

Now £ 10 million devoted to actual R & D into tidal energy sytems ...that alone might have inspired research.



37

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 10:04:20
Rules #24 has it spot on- there are a bunch of technologies out there waiting to be installed, someone just has to fork out for them. This of course involves hard work and spending real money, rather than hoping someone else will do the work and you can hand them a pittance afterwards.
38

haggis 10,

The Capital City of Scotland 03/04/2008 10:05:23
Can the SNP be looking in the Direction of the Pentland Firth for Tidal Energy Production I hope so as it has some of the strongest tides in Scotland and would bring welcome employment to the far North east of of our country.Ex merchant seaman!!?????
39

The Strategist,

03/04/2008 10:11:02
#7

Wavegen are now owned by Siemens Hydro of Germany because they couldn't raise money in Scotland.. Lunar Energy has recently done a deal with a large Korean engineering company to essentially develop their technology over there.

Other countries seem to have the vision we don't and are supported strongly by their Govt and most importantly, their financial institutions.

40

Navvy,

03/04/2008 10:13:46
Castaway
Useful data but you did miss the hydro and I think that you underestimated the tidal.
#33
I don't think that you have got that right. Ocean currents are well offshore North Atlantic drift etc and become lost in the coastal effects. What we do have are tidal streams which reverse roughly every 6 hours so there are null periods but these nulls are often very slow. Get hold of the BRITISH whoops sorry to the chip on shoulder brigade Tidal Stream Atlases for the Pentland Firth, Kintyre and North Channel and up the west coast at Kyle of Lochalsh. These are what we can harness. A good starting place would be, From Memory, Stroma in the Pentland Firth. Simplistically, Stick some low head turbines in a big concrete box and sink the box onto a piled foundation in the tideway. The boxes are easy for civil engineers to make. Bring the power ashore and send it down the lovely new tall pylons which have no more pylon metres than the more numerous old ones. At periods of low demand use the power to concert seawater to hydrogen and oxygen and reconvert it in gas turbines at peak periods and at change of tidal direction. Further, the change of direction of the stream is at different times at different places so that smoothes things out. Also there is lots of power even at neap tides. This is very like the low maintenance hydro schemes with which we have much experience.
Wind of course has days of flat calm when and needs huge overcapacity installed to ensure a modest delivery
41

Navvy,

03/04/2008 10:18:41
from #41 "null periods but these nulls are often very slow"

Sorry

These nulls are usually very short. That is the stream stops and starts in the opposite direction with only a short "no flow" time perhaps 30 minutes which is where the hydrogen can be used
42

donald,

glasgow 03/04/2008 10:33:02
If Hamish's Heroes are still in power in Westminster over Scotland we will still be paying through the nose for it, as now.
43

,

03/04/2008 10:39:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

MoragfraeEdinburgh,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 10:45:49
I would like to claim the £10 million now. I have put this idea forward before to politicians but they have always rejected it (just like they have always rejected my plans for trains to run on solar power on the spurious grounds that passengers would need to get out and push every time the train went into a tunnel).

What I envisage is having large magnets strapped to the bellies of flying pigs. Then squadrons of flying pigs would circle a central armature 300ft high producing copious amounts of electricity. Variations in demand would be met by having a flying pigs squadron leader based on the ground who would instruct the pigs by megaphone whether to fly faster or slower.

But I know what you are wondering - what happens to all the pigshit that gets flown off? That is the beauty of the scheme because that will go to manuring the eco-fuels that will be grown underneath

I estimate it would need only 5000 squadrons of flying pigs to power the whole of Scotland.
45

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 03/04/2008 10:48:08
Alex Salmond's initiative is visionary and well-timed - hopefully it will produce some brilliant ideas. However, it is still appealing to a 'high-tech' vision of the future - in which genius engineers produce fabulous machines which will save us all - at fabulous effort and expense.

The alternative vision is to go for low-tech simple solutions that do not need giant machines in the sea, vast swarms of cables and pylons spanning the land or 100 metre windmills blighting the landscape.

I would guess that 90% of our energy needs is simply to keep our houses warm in this climate.
Howard Lidell of Gaia Architects won the 'House of the Year' competition back in the 1990s for a traditional 3 bedroomed house he built in Aberfeldy. It used traditional materials, was wooden clad and required NO HEATING WHATSOEVER.

It used south -facing windows, Swedish levels of insulation and only had a small woodstove for 'comfort'.

If all of Scotland had houses that required no electricity, coal or oil to heat them - you could close most of the power stations and take down all the windmills. All you need to do is change the building regulations to demand that houses have 2 ft of insulation in the roof and 1 ft in the walls and floor. End of problem. Of course - they aren't going to do that are they? Because the truth is that - big business and govt don't want low-tech solutions. There's no money or power for them in it.
46

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 03/04/2008 10:54:29
Wee Eck has a point in that we are already well up percetage wise with hydro power.
Unfortunately he and his predecessors have allowed the wind industry free rein to ravage our landscape with windmills of mass destruction in order to line the pockets of that industry.
There is no doubt that marine based electricity generation is a much better bet, however £10 million is pennies compared to the subsidies the wind industry are getting and is guaranteed to produce nothing.
It is time to stop ROCS and put the money that we are all paying to the wind industry into developing marine power. Then we will see some action.
At the same time we should be looking at installing a subsea ring main around the UK and scrap this stupid pylon idea which the wind industry want to get even more of our cash.
47

Gregorf,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 10:57:21
I am now a unionist and am trying of ways to not bring Scotland up to date, but to regress it further and not attract investment or move into flourishing industries.

If anyone has any ideas how we can increase our poverty, ill health, violence rates and general patheic outlook on things, please let the country know.





48

Neil,

Glasgow 03/04/2008 10:59:09
5 "Scotlands present nuclear power stations are base load, that is they cannot follow the hourly/daily fluctuations in energy demand it is left up to coal fired stations to adjust their output to cope."

True, which is why they are such a good fit with hydro which is totally flevible - this is why France is 85% nuclear, 15% hydro & electricity is half the price it is here.

The problem with the intermitent renewables is that, they are incapable of supplying baseload. Being intermitent, not only are they unable to increase supply when demand rises they are unable to produce power at any time, regrdless of demand, when it isn't windy & tides aren't flowing.
49

Nikostratos,

03/04/2008 11:18:11
Well I nominate Alex Salmond for the Saltire prize in total b'llsh't..........

With his tall tales he is becoming an embarrassment to himself and Scotland...........
50

bill-alba,

fife 03/04/2008 11:38:00
#50 you already have that prize...is Scotland being promoted to much for you head in the sand britnats.
51

George Mackay,

Dundee 03/04/2008 11:42:00
My sister Fiona, who travels a lot, says that global warming is going out of fashion. She says that the in-thing now is food shortages causing rising prices. The price of basics, like bread and milk, is rising very fast right round the world. She says that Scotland should stop using barley for distilling whisky and use it for making foodstuffs instead. This will help to keep the price of food down and cut down on drunkenness.
Perhaps Alex should take up this idea.
52

Saoghal Beag,

03/04/2008 11:44:52
Neil we are talking about integrated generation from diverse technologies. The diversity of generation and storage capacity within the exising system and through new technologies offers a real way forward.

As 5 points out we have more than enough baseload generation from coal, oil and gas already, not only does this cover baseload but is more responsive than nuclear and more able to meet surge demand.
53

Nikostratos,

03/04/2008 11:48:25
#52

potato's
54

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 11:56:19
Tweedmouth #46- the Westminster regime has run like a coward from any attempt at implementing proper insulation in new build houses.
As for energy use in the home, a Scotsman article based on a WWF report put 27% of UK CO2 emissions as caused by home heating:http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Bringing--home-the-truth.3929066.jp

Wavegen- theres a company I was trying to remember. I want to know how well their "limpet" installation went- it was basically the first operating wave power station, on Islay:

http://www.wavegen.co.uk/what_we_offer_limpet_islay.htm

55

troll,

03/04/2008 11:57:37
Herr Robber aged 27

Dvarfs are a pest they get stukked in de teeth,

Moved into aquvaculture years ago, the bridge is az they say pretty mandatory, Just like stalagtites. Doctor needz a sharper chisle if you ask me.
56

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 03/04/2008 12:06:40
#46 Tweedmouth.

How is Alex a visionary? Another prize merely delays the implementation of adequate known and proven technologies.

If SNP really cared it would have long since got stuck in to supporting Scots with idea and plans. Why all this rearranging of deckchairs? Why all these delays? Why not a referendum next week?

SNP is like the ill-trained yappy dog that spent its life chasing cars, finally catching one and only to then realise it didn't know what to do with it.
57

KampungHighlander,

03/04/2008 12:06:43
#24,#37,#38.

There has not been one instance in recored human history that government funded research has resulted in government producing a saleable product.

Government are utterly incompetent at investing money as venture capital, they are far to easily distracted by petty concerns like am I getting enough jobs in my constituency.

The only people who can bring this promissing technology to life are entrepeneurs and venture capitalists.

The only help that government can provide is tax policies that incentivise these kinds of investments.

By incentivise I don't mean handing out Grants like the previous administration did to HSBC for a few measly processing jobs.

By incentivise I mean having a tax system that doesn't punish the succesful.

Generally the best thing that government can do is get tthe hell out of the way.

Since we can not set our own fiscal policies like Ireland (for the time being) the best we can do is offering a prize to the people who actually know how to create business's.
58

MoragfraeEdinburgh,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 12:22:55
The drive for renewables and the neglect of our nuclear power stations has lead, so someone said last week, to Scotland having the largest increase in CO2 emissions from electricity in the developed world. Between 2005 and 2006 they went up by 35% causing total CO2 emissions to rise by 15%.
Salmond never mentioned this when he was over in the States but his policies and his daft prize offer nothing but the same. In the reviled States CO2 emissions are falling - who are we to preach?
59

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 12:38:46
#57

If the technologies were already viable and could be implemented at a profit someone in the private sector would have already done it.

As far as the referendum goes, you speak to Nichol and I'll take to Alex and we'll get it set for this month. How does April the 15th sound to you?
60

Scotland to prosper...,

03/04/2008 12:39:46
I wish all those unionists hell bent on nat-bashing would give it a rest!

The SNP have provided an incentive for individuals and companies to focus on developing technology that will benefit the country both financially and environmentally. What on earth is wrong with that?

Niko where is his tall tale in this instance? Your arguments are childish and amateur.
61

Calum Crubag,

03/04/2008 12:43:12
I bet you there's some Brit Nats here who'll say... 'no way'. Scotland couldn't do that.
62

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 12:46:23
#48

Vote Labour, impregnate teenagers, wear union jack underpants and go on the giro.
They you will be an official card carring unionist
63

,

03/04/2008 12:58:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 13:06:28
#44

It provides balance for the Kimba's, Galactic Cannibals, and the odd typically rascist post by some English people on the board.

Not an opinion I share, but I don't believe in censoring free speech.
65

Klaus Dubois,

Ed 03/04/2008 13:08:23
#45 Morag, you are the winner !

Any chance Osalmond could just get on with running the bits of the country that are devolved instead of the persistent flights of fancy ?
66

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 13:24:42
#46

I'm with you, that is a much simpler solution. Lets pull down every building in Scotland and rebuild them 1 foot thick insulated walls. It will certainly solve the unemployment problem. In fact we might have to hire every person of working age in Poland to complete the project. We can just send the whole bill to Alistair Darling.
67

Allan(handofgod137),

03/04/2008 14:23:00
Why not just stick a wind turbine in the debating chamber at follyrood, there's enough hot air produced there to power europe.
68

Miss H,

03/04/2008 14:37:27
59 Who said it last week? Was it a taxi driver?
69

Neil,

Glasgow 03/04/2008 14:41:51
53 - complete waffle. "Integrated diversity" will not let windmills provide the power to keep the lights on on a cold but calm winter night.

Nor will the massive "storage capacity within the exising system" because, as you know perfectly well, it doesn't exist. There is Cruachan, designed to store Hunterston's off peak power & that is it.

The entire eco-fascist scam depends on such complete dishonety
70

Geomac 1,

Kinross 03/04/2008 14:47:37
I wish I knew what this egomaniac Alex "Lights Out" Salmon is smoking! His extravagant and incredible claims beggar belief - 60GW from renewables in Scotland!!!! Don't make me laugh!
This whole issue of politicians egging each other on to make more and more ridiculous claims would be funny if it weren't so serious. Before ranting on about mega renewables, this government needs to develop a meaningful and credible energy policy rather than jumping on bandwagons and trying to outbid other political parties.
Surely they realise that they are the government and need to act appropriately and responsibly - stop showboating and get on with a practical energy policy/strategy.
I am suprrised by the number of posts above who seem to believe that AS has actually achieved something with his speech - no so at all! Talk is cheap but action is more difficult!
This is a bit like the debate re National income tax to replace council tax - all talk when they have skillfully avoided the real problem (as opposed to finding the least painful way of extracting taxes) - namely, the rapid growth on the size of councils and their associated budgets.
The SNP were a breath of fresh air but have let themselves and us down with petty behaviour and ranting (Rev K MacAskill) about lifestyles etc
71

Geomac 1,

Kinross 03/04/2008 14:50:18
#60 - many of the technologies do exist. The problem is the cost of installation and low returns on investment. For example wave generators have to be located well off shore ( around 50 miles or so) and tidal schemes face resistence from other envoronmental lobby groups.
72

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 14:57:21
#70

The Plug In Hybrid Cars that will start appearing in Toyota showrooms next year will offer the possibility of off peak electricity storage. Currently Power Companies spend massive amounts on maintaining standbay power to cover surges in demand.

A Professor at Stanford University in America conducted a study that showed that an economicly efficient alternative was for Power Companies to provide free electricity to charge cars in return for the right to draw electricity from the cars during peak loads.

Since the New Toyota comes with a Battery capable of discharging 63KW hours of electricity it is enough to power 4 average homes for 24 hours.
73

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 15:06:47
#72

The Technology developed by Wavegen is shore based. It is basically a high tech seawall. The key criteria for any new technology to be widely adopted is that it is cost effective. That is what the Prize is designed to do.

In terms of planning resistance, well that is a serious problem in Scotland that needs to be addressed. I guess the nimby's are already starting to form the Royal Society For The Protection of Fish.
74

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 15:13:15
#68

Or a method of collecting all the Methane eminating from the opposition benches.
75

MoragfraeEdinburgh,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 15:16:58
#69 No it was one of us. Figures are all on the Government's web site though. I know because I just looked.

Electricity from coal,oil and gas 2005 23,170gwhs (47% of total.
ditto for 2006 31,322 gwhs(58% of total).

As the Nats that infest this site keep saying - wha's like us!!! Kyoto eat your heart out. (Again for the Nat's benefit that's a world wide agreement to limit CO2 emissions.)
76

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/04/2008 15:40:58
#76

If you are serious about meeting targets for C02 emissions then the best solution is sequestration of CO2 from coal, and to a lesser degree gas,fired power plants. This is a good solution for Scotland because you can pump it into depleteing oil fields to increase the recovery rates.
77

dido-bendigo,

Argyll 03/04/2008 15:42:03
So! The great statesman has come around to my way of thinking at last! After all of these years! Where do I apply for Intellectual Property Rights payments? Er, Alex, is that Pounds Stirling, or Pounds Scottish? Could you check with John please?
78

Geomac 1,

Kinross 03/04/2008 15:46:25
#74 - you don't get much wave power at the shore on a wind free day!! Also I suggest that there are very few sites where this technology would work on a windy day!! Maybe enough to charge up a few Toyota Prius's or power a kettle or two! Certainly nowhere near the 60 GW that Alex "lights out" Salmond would have us believe!
79

Saoghal Beag,

03/04/2008 15:48:46
70 - complete waffle. only to those who lack imagination, a view to the future and a single issue aspect to energy generation.

"Integrated diversity" will not let windmills provide the power to keep the lights on on a cold but calm winter night. You see Neil it isn't just about windmills, its about tidal and wave generation, it is about solar water heating and heat pump technology to make domestic loads more manageable, etc.

Nor will the massive "storage capacity within the exising system" because, as you know perfectly well, it doesn't exist. There is Cruachan, designed to store Hunterston's off peak power & that is it. What off peak power was it storing last year, certainly wasn't hunterstons which suffered so many unscheduled outings. What was the percent of its capacity it generated last year.

Neil, if you read what i'd typed you would have noted that i support on-going use of coal, oil and gas, not the usual eco-approach, that's because i take a more middle road. your nuclear-fascist approach hangs on as many leis and delusions as the eco-fascists do.
80

Geomac 1,

Kinross 03/04/2008 15:52:41
#80

Perhaps you could explain your electricity generation strategy? oil, gas and coal are finite sources of energy generation and rapidly increasing in price accordingly!
81

Saoghal Beag,

03/04/2008 15:52:48
59 Morag

carbon counting is a political exercise in smoke and mirrors. Zero carbon homes? As for nuclear being renewbable in that is does not have a big stack belching smoke, well that is a complete delusion. The construction adn materials to build a plant, the energy used in mining and refining the uranium, the energy used in transporting that uranium, the enrgy used in transporting and managing the waste adn the energy used in decomissioning the plants are reported to exceed any energy generated.

Sounds like you have actually taking to believing the guff spouted by tony bliar and broon.
82

Saoghal Beag,

03/04/2008 15:57:38
81 uranium is a finite source and rapidly increasing in price.

fossil fuel can be used as a short term baseload but there is a need for a divesification of generation technologies and new technologies, there is a need for more community heating schemes such as lerwick from waste and dunfermline to come from landfill gas, there is a need for embedded generation, appropriate turbines in the industrial environment, solar water heating, hydrogen and fuel cell technologies. the incorporation of enrgy generation in building design should also be enforced, as mentioned above tidal turbines in bridge pillars and wind in/on buildings.

scotland is resource rich and we should eb looking to use that more.
83

MoragfraeEdinburgh,

Edinburgh 03/04/2008 16:12:46
#82 Figures please! It would take 2,500 3mw windmills to produce the output of Hunterston & Torness. Concrete involved in two approaches is what?
My point was it was because we have neglected nuclear power our CO2 production has gone through the roof - this tends to be a universal consequence of following the tree-huggers/SNP agenda. We get precisely the opposite of what was intended. Not guff just basic common-sense.

(And try using Firefox in future as it corrects your spelling for you which would make your posts more comprehensible.)
84

Geomac 1,

Kinross 03/04/2008 16:22:40
'83. I agree with a lot of what you say re community CHp systems etc BUT I cannot accept that there's no future for nuclear as a component of our future energy supply mix. Uranium is a somewhat finite resource but by no means as finite as fossil fuels - also nuclear fuel can be generated by breeder reactors? Also there's also the possibility fo nuclear fusion coming along
85

dave yae fife,

03/04/2008 18:00:34
Geomac 1

I take it from your ranting that you are going to store the nuclear waste in your garden. Why create more waste when there is no solution anywhere in the world on what to do with it.

You have a cann't do attitude that is so prevalant in scotland assuming you are scottish.
86

David MacVicar,

web 03/04/2008 18:34:04
Some more Scottish Energy Facts and myths:
Facts:
+ Hydro is renewable resource, can store energy, runs without wind, can be turned on/off/regulated quickly. - Only can provide a small % of total demand.

Without any new nuclear Scotland still needs to INCREASE capacity of interconnectors to both England and Ireland. IE. we will be exporting more than we do now or ever have done with Nuclear.

We will also need to import electricity at certain times - it is not one way.
We will remain a large Nett exporter

Scotland is by a large margin the best place in Europe for Wind, wave and tidal energy production, yet we already have a much lower installed capacity in these areas than many EU countries.

Nuclear is not as bad as some make out but it still has serious negative aspects and in Scotland it is simply not necessary.

Some negative aspects:
Lifetime cost - In the last 2 years the decommisioning cost alone has been underestimated by approx 30%, as steated in the latest UK audit office report JAN 2008.
The cleanup of Dounreay will take until 2330.

The cheapest way and most effective way of reducing household energy demand is simply good insulation.

Myths:
Nuclear is Low CO2.
It is true that Nuclear "Now" is lower than most carbon energy sources. It is not LOW CO2 over its lifecycle - uranium mining > waste burial.
What is worse is that known rich uranium deposits will be used by circa 2016 > 2020 based on current demand. Thereafter CO2 cost goes up exponentially as remaining ores become less and less rich.

AFAIK CO2 production from mining in Australia and Canada do not count towards EU CO2 emissions.
87

Greenheatman,

TAIN 03/04/2008 19:10:15
Tidal stream has the problem of Neap tides every fortnight. The power available during these Neap tides is 1/8 of the Spring tides..........and there is a very large gap of about 2 hours each side of slack water where small fractions of full capacity generation is realised.

Then there is The Coincident Null Theorem to consider. This theorem states that regardless of how many intermittent renewable energy systems, including hydro, there will always be coincident null points where 100% backup from fossil fuelled power stations is necessary. Chances of these occurring may be has high as 1 in 5 or 20%
88

danielrober,

03/04/2008 19:10:33
# 56 troll,

Aquvaculture, eh. Next time i eat a farmed fish i'll bemore respectful. + less inclined to make a complaint.
89

danielrober,

03/04/2008 19:21:03
Any one know how much of the projected £72 billion cost for nuclear clean up is associated with administation and pension costs? Just inte