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Published Date: 20 March 2007
WE HAVE been to 21 towns and cities, from Dumfries to Thurso and Ullapool to Peebles, clocking up thousands of miles.
Our Scotland 300: Nationhood Tour was an unprecedented exercise in taking the pulse of the nation - by driving a Scotsman van onto high streets north, south, east and west and asking people what they thought of their country in 2007. Three centuries
after the Act of Union and on the eve of a fascinating election, the tour gave a unique glimpse into varied, complex modern Scotland.

It has not always been easy reading and we have been taken to task for sometimes presenting a depressing view of the places we visited. However, we always reported what we found, without bias, offering a snapshot of the people who came to speak to us, not a scientific analysis.

Scots were, in general, delighted to speak - and pleased we made the effort to turn up in their town and ask their opinion. One woman made a special trip to Oban from the island of Luing because she knew we were coming, others were waiting for our reporters when they arrived at the location of the day.

Today, we draw out some themes which emerged again and again.

Although there were more people willing to argue a strong case for independence than defending the Union, there were strident advocates for both sides in every town - although both Nationalists and Unionists displayed a fierce patriotism and a love of their country.

Occasionally, this lurched into what might be called racism - towards the English or immigrant workers. "The Poles are just coming over to sign on," was one comment in Dumfries, although others praised eastern Europeans for their work ethic and contribution to Scotland.

On the other hand, many incomers - from England, eastern Europe and Australia - praised Scotland for its welcoming tolerance. Agnieszka Kozdon, 25, who arrived in Thurso a year ago from Poland, summed up the widespread feelgood factor: "Scotland seemed such a beautiful place and I wanted to try life here. People have been so helpful and have made me feel at home."

NOTHING FOR THE YOUNG


A LACK of facilities and job opportunities for young people was a recurring theme on the streets, especially in the smaller towns and on the islands. Paul Gibson, 18, a sixth-year student in Oban, said: "There's just not much to do here. When you're 18, you don't want to stay."

Mairi Carson, a pensioner, made the same point in Portree. She said: "We need something other than tourism, because a lot of the young people leave the island and don't come back."

Trevor Jack, 39, of Aviemore, argued: "There should be more for the kids. They are being left to get on with things and that is not good enough. There is a lot for tourists but nothing for the people who live here."

William Ferguson, 18, in Stornoway, said: "There's nothing for young people. The only thing they do is go to the pub."

The issue also came up in Penicuik, where Cathy McGill, 25, a YMCA support worker, said: "Young people vandalise things because they are bored."

ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOUR


IN THE smaller towns of the central belt - notably Paisley, Cumbernauld and Alloa - there was real concern about antisocial behaviour.

Leona Kirby, 20, of Paisley, highlighted "drugs and neds" as the big problem. "It's no fun getting out of the car and being chased by ten-year-olds with a baseball bat," she said. "I'm not joking."

In Alloa, the prominence given to comments by Leanne Chidwick and Stuart Tolly have been criticised for presenting too negative a view of the town - but they insisted that they had been subjected to violence there more than once.

Lynsey Fraser said of Cumbernauld: "It's a dump. There's people taking drugs. I'm frightened to go out at night." Bad behaviour was also raised in Aberfeldy: "There's a lot of noise, vandalism and drinking," said Linda Thomson. The issue was also raised in Penicuik. In Montrose, Bruce Murphy, who retired from teaching after being assaulted, said: "Maybe I am old-fashioned but children need to be taught citizenship and decency."

UNION or INDEPENDENCE


IN EVERY place we visited, there were staunch advocates of independence - and others not even prepared to think about it.

In Penicuik, Ian Watson had no doubt: "If Scotland was independent, its voice would be heard more easily on the international stage."

Minutes later, Alexis Robertson put the opposing view: "I love Scotland, but don't want to go independent. We would be worse off."

The divide was illustrated in Troon by Peter Mecham, 79, and his wife, Josephine. He was keen on independence: "We are a nation; the government we have is a waste of space", his wife less so: "It's like when a man leaves his wife, she's got to assess the situation. Can she afford to start from scratch?"

Lady Fiona Campbell in Peebles was a Unionist because "we need the umbrella of England". But in Thurso, Jeanette MacDougall had a different view: "I would go for independence - we could not get in a worse state. We are forgotten about here and everything is neglected."

SUPERMARKET DOMINANCE


THE dominance of the large supermarket chains and their impact on smaller shops - and on communities - came up often.

In Biggar, which has recently fought off plans for a superstore, Linda McEwan, 60, took a bleak view. "The supermarkets are killing the streets," she said. "Quite a lot of people come to shop here to keep the shops going, but I don't think it's enough."

A similar view was expressed by Marion Brown, 72, in Penicuik. She said: "It's almost too near to Edinburgh. The big supermarkets have taken over and a lot of local shops have closed because they couldn't compete."

This had contributed to a decline in a sense of community, she suggested.

Teenager Leanne Chidwick had a bleak view of job prospects in Alloa. "There's nothing around here except for supermarkets and they want people in their thirties who already have a driving licence," she said. "It's either the supermarkets or the army for us."

AFFORDABLE HOUSING


THIS was the issue that came up more than any other, with a real sense that locals are being priced out by incomers - moving permanently or buying second homes. Nigel Walker, 49, a photographer, said: "The big issue on Arran is - 100 per cent - housing. It's very close to Glasgow and there are vast amounts of holiday homes. Huge numbers of people come to live here, driving up house prices to the point where you are starting at £200,000. Teachers and socially useful people cannot buy a shed here."

Electrician Marc MacBain, 20, said he would have to leave Arran because he will not be able to afford a home.

In Aberfeldy, Maggie MacKay, 49, said: "House prices are ridiculous - you can get more for your money in Glasgow than here."

The issue also came up in Aberdeen, Oban - and in Portree, Skye, where Jackie Marquis said her son, 19, could not buy his own home. "A one-bed flat in Portree is going for £90,000, so how can he afford that?" she said.

ANTI-ENGLISHNESS


A NUMBER of English people who have settled in Scotland claimed there was antipathy towards them, and insisted that was not the case when Scots moved to England. Vanessa Stevenson, of Paisley, who is from Newcastle, said: "The English are oblivious to the Scottish-English thing. I didn't realise that existed before I came here. That was quite a disappointment."

Lesley Hellen, 49, who moved to Skye six years ago from Liverpool, made the same point: "I didn't know I was English until I came to Scotland. If they don't think you're up here to contribute something to the community, you'll be seen as a threat."

Vicki Dreyer, from Lower Largo, Fife, said: "I was born in Falkirk, grew up all over the place and ended in England. I never [saw] anti-Scottish feeling in England. But the anti-English feeling I've witnessed and heard since returning to Scotland is awful."

Donald Beaton, 62, put it bluntly in Portree: "There are too many incomers. They're mostly English. It dilutes the culture."

Hearing the big voice of our small nation was a joy


IT SOUNDED too good to be true. Two reporters and a van, a day out of the office, the chance to ask real people - not politicians, policy-makers or public relations officers - what they thought about Scotland. And we might even make it to the local pub for last orders.

Still, being part of the very first nationhood trip was a nerve-racking experience.

Would anyone talk to us, reporter Eben Harrell, photographer Neil Hanna and I wondered nervously as we wended our way through the January snow to Dumfries. We needn't have worried. After a struggle with the famous trestle table (that thing should have had its own tow truck, it was so heavy) we set up our stall to discover that people were, in fact, waiting for us.

And once they started talking, they didn't want to stop.

As the van beetled its way around the country, other reporters came back to Holyrood Road with similar tales. A reader had waited 20 minutes to speak to a journalist, while in Oban, a woman came from the small island of Luing just to offer her views. The visitors' book was running out of pages. It became increasingly clear that we are living in a small country with a big voice, and one that is desperate to talk, if only you bother to ask its opinion.

Journalists are naturally cynical folk, but as the tour continued a buzz began to go round the office.

Because, well, it was fun. From the fish suppers political correspondent Louise Gray and I balanced on our knees like two pensioners on holiday in an Oban car park, to the time Neil and I attempted, unsuccessfully, to teach New Yorker Eben the words to Ye Cannae Shove Yer Granny Aff A Bus, to the night myself, education correspondent Kevin Schofield and chief photographer Donald MacLeod spent in a spit-and-sawdust pub in Stornoway in the company of perhaps a tad more Guinness than we ought, the tour wasn't just an on-the-road style education about our own nation, it was a really good laugh as well.

Scotland is a vibrant, complex and beautiful place. It's good to get out and see it once in a while.



The full article contains 1765 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

20/03/2007 00:34:45

One good thing has come of this......their van engine got a good run in :)

2

musicismylife,

Wife of the Banned Scaramouche 20/03/2007 01:06:01

The reported anti-English thing would also work against anyone moving into smaller close-knit communities. This is just scare-mongering!

If Scaramouche and I (both Central Belt-ers) had moved into somewhere like Auchenshoogle in the Hielants, we'd still be the 'the strangers' 40 years later! Wee communities are like that all over.

Especially in out of the way places where the psychotic inbred species live, like you see in the movies!!!

3

Bill, Dunblane,

Bring back Scaramouche. 20/03/2007 01:11:02

2 - MIML - Duellin' Banjos?

4

Bill, Dunblane,

Bring back Scaramouche. 20/03/2007 01:11:46

Then again, theres nae lyrics - could pose a problem!

5

musicismylife,

Wife of the Banned Scaramouche 20/03/2007 01:55:25

#3 & #4 Music to my ears when the auld bugger shuts up!

6

Yane,

Kata Tjuta 20/03/2007 02:03:47

#1 What a job! Being paid to travel around & have a blether -- fantastic.

#5 What's going on? It must be a mistake with Scaramouche.

7

Paul,

20/03/2007 02:21:52

Scotland is a beautiful place, no doubt.

I'm not sure about vibrant though with the reported anti-englishness, anti-social behaviour, nothing for the young, lack of affordable housing and supermarket dominance. Very diplomatic/sit-on-the-fence statement about independence too.

After all that travelling around and talking is this really the sum output, surely there is a more detailed and thorough analysis than this?

8

williamx,

Delta,Canada 20/03/2007 03:04:09

The only reason that there is an anti-english attitude is because the Scottish elite also had a hand in writing the history books used in Scottish schools in my time. They successfully shaded Scots - English history to deflect attention from their own screwing of the Scots such as the highland clearances and their control of the legal system. Among all legal systems only Scotland has a non-proven verdict. A person is either guilty as proved or innocent. Non proven is a good verdict when the elite could not get a guilty verdict. Smeared an innocent mans reputation for life.

9

I'm going for a beer,

work 20/03/2007 04:07:06

Donald Beaton, 62, put it bluntly in Portree: "There are too many incomers. They're mostly English. It dilutes the culture."

I agree. In the words of Shane:

This land it is our land
It is the proud land of our Fathers
It belongs to us and them
Not to any of the others.

No doubt this comment will not find favour with some who believe it fashionable to flood our country with foreigners, in order to persue an economic agenda.

10

Maisie,

20/03/2007 04:30:48

Agree with Paul at #7, is this the sum output? Is that it, no detailed analysis?

What is apparent as I follewed the reporters in their wee bus is that the debate ended up being about the state of the town centres and anti socila behaviour more than anything really. They started off on one subject and drifted off into another half way through. They should have stuck to their agenda and then got back in their bus and do the same tour only on the peoples social concerns.

11

Robbie,

NZ wee and 20/03/2007 04:42:38

'IN EVERY place we visited, there were staunch advocates of independence - and others not even prepared to think about it.'
So the Scotsman discovered the problem facing Scottish sovereignty and of joining the world of independent countries and getting their own seat in International forums - some Scots are , 'not even prepared to think about it.'

12

I'm no really here,

20/03/2007 06:37:38

#11 Did you read some of the comments on these posts about cricket? Yet Scotland have a cricket team in the World Cup (about to face South Africa today). Do you find any people in NZ who don't support the NZ team, even if they don't play or support cricket? In SA there are 100,000s even millions of people who have never played cricket and would never dream of going to a cricket match, but who support the SA team. Why, because it is a South African team.

Scotland is a divided nation and that's how the Unionists, unfortunately, are going to win every time. How can they not win when probably about half of the people don't believe in Scotland as a nation.

13

I'm no really here,

20/03/2007 06:41:53

Like #10, after having "visited 21 towns and cities, and clocking up thousands of miles", all we get is a summary?

14

Comerscroft,

20/03/2007 06:50:52

***2***

35 years ago, my parents (Aberdonian/English) moved from Edinburgh to Fortrose on the Black Isle because my father was then working in Inverness.

I've never know such an insular place. Constant griping about 'incomers' etc, etc. The only place which could possibly have been worse, was two miles along the coast at Avoch.

Mind you, the amount of inbreeding in Avoch probably stunted their intellectual growth and world view.

15

Comerscroft,

20/03/2007 07:02:07

***9***

Must remember your short-sighted and insular sentiments when 'The English' and other tourists stop coming to visit your precious island. Why should they bother when they are not wanted?

You people bleat on about 'needing fresh blood' in your closed communities---no wonder with all the inbreeding that goes on--but you don't like it when incomers arrive, bringing economic benefit, children for the local schools etc.

All the culture in the world won't help you when the last of the young folk have left (who would want to live in the back of beyond amongst dour islanders with nothing to do, no-where to go, anyway) and your elderly population is in terminal decline.

35 years ago, Cromarty on the Black Isle was glad enough to welcome 'foreign' oil workers who brought employment, money and fresh blood to another dying village and the surrounding area.

Shame that you head-in-the-sand islanders can't move into the 21st Century instead of living 200 years ago in the past.

Mind you.............with the wind farm proposed for Lewis, that will wake you up from your death-sleep.

16

Calgacus,

20/03/2007 07:12:27

One interviewee stated "The English are oblivious to the Scottish-English thing. I didn't realise that existed before I came here. That was quite a disappointment."
I'm sure it was, but not perhaps for the reasons she implies, as her first sentence betrays the fact that many English people genuinely assume that Scotland IS simply a part of England.
Another interviewee said "I didn't know I was English until I came to Scotland". Or perhaps she didn't know we WEREN'T English.
After 300 years, those are the real disappointments of the Union.

17

Wherryman,

Mull 20/03/2007 07:54:47

#9 "No doubt this comment will not find favour with some who believe it fashionable to flood our country with foreigners"

What a difference in attitude to Eire.

Perhaps that is a reason that Eire is booming and this one is, well, choking on its chips.

No doubt you dont mind being flooded with EU and English money ?

18

Masque,

Free The Scaramouche One! 20/03/2007 08:35:47

#9. I find that most English people who have come to live in Scotland, love living here and are probably more for Independence than some people on this forum.

May I remind you that one of the founders of the Independence movement, the late Wendy Wood was English by birth and anly a quarter Scots by blood? There is an article in Wikipedia anyone can access on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Wood

19

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/03/2007 08:51:20

#9 What an unpleasant Little-Scotlander you are. This land, as you put it, is neither yours nor mine. Everyone in this country is either an immigrant or the descendant of an immigrant, all you have to do is go back far enough. The hills and the heather and the lochs and the glens are what we are lucky enough to enjoy and protect; they are not ours to own.

20

Cadgers,

Bring back Scaramouche 20/03/2007 08:53:41

#16 Well said.

21

Wherryman,

Mull 20/03/2007 08:54:41

#16

What rot - a typical post twisting whats said. Having lived for many years in England I can say that until recently I never encountered anyone anti Scottish, its a mindset of Scots to be anti English not the other way round, though of course the Scots have been the catalyst in starting the reverse south of the border.

Do you seriously think that the English think Scots are English ? Get a grip.

22

jim lad,

the capital 20/03/2007 09:11:27

#2
What a picture you paint of a country you claim to care so much about, but then you have been converted to the SNP a fact your past family history no doubt would be proud off, as you have explained your family were staunch Labour. The next time you pen a ditty make it a lament.

23

bill-alba,

fife 20/03/2007 09:12:26

I have lived in England for 30 years..and all my friends are English..however they have been told for the last 300 years that everything was wonderful with the union..whilst we have known for 300 years that everything is NOT fine with the union..so its a bit understandable that the English have no idea of whats going on....even now there is no mention of the Scottish general election on the EBC there was a little coverage for the Scottish no smoking law..

24

Ken S.,

England 20/03/2007 09:21:01

#4 bill-alba

Alex Salmond is published in the Daily Telegraph today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinio...

We get quite lot on Scottish topics in the paper these days.

25

SouthernSkye,

The Place is Dark, So Dark, without Scaramouche 20/03/2007 09:23:16

#24...bill-alba
Very true. It is really difficult to find anything on the Auntie-beeb web pages about the soon-to-happen elections in Scotland.
Wonder if it will be the same if the SNP get in?
Cat amongst the pigeons I think!

26

Wherryman,

Mull 20/03/2007 09:24:02

Bill - you must watch another channel - there has been a lot of coverage not necessarily on national news every night but I have seen both feature, but certainly Newsnight and Question Time and Andrew Marr on Sunday Morning have given a fair amount of time to these subjects. Perhaps there are more pressing news stories about a Scottish Chancellor that get the coverage ?

27

SouthernSkye,

The Place is Dark,So Dark, without Scaramouche. 20/03/2007 09:28:21

Ken S.
Thanks for the info. I'll have to start looking to other than the beeb.

28

Wherryman,

Mull 20/03/2007 09:28:48

southernskye - there are 500 pages listed on the BBC website under "scottish elections", the last posted only 18 hours ago. Type "scottish elections" into the search box.

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=all...

29

Wherryman,

Mull 20/03/2007 09:31:21

Or even better - a whole dedicated area to "Scotland Politics"

Its there if you take ten seconds to look my friend.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/scotland/default.stm

30

Robbie,

NZ wee and 20/03/2007 09:50:29

16. Calgacus
Perhaps you have hit a few points in a nut-shell.

31

Meggie,

20/03/2007 09:50:42

I am English and have lived here for 12 years. Still don't feel comfortable with the 'banter'...
Which i think is how its always described?

32

Wherryman,

Mull 20/03/2007 09:58:24

Yes Meggie, "banter" here, "racism" in England.

33

Robbie,

NZ wee and 20/03/2007 10:20:13

25. Ken S
Good article.
Liked this bit "Scotland would prosper as a small European nation. As we can see from our near neighbours in the 'arc of prosperity' - Ireland to our west, Norway to our east, and Iceland to our north - independence works in the modern world. All of these nations have become independent in the last century - it is the natural state for the most successful nations. Norway, Iceland and Ireland were recently described by the United Nations as the best, second best, and fourth best countries in the world in which to live. But I firmly believe that independence would be good for England, too."
If we could just keep to the idea and discussion of the 'normality' of independence - how many nations sacrificed with the blood of their youth just to be self-governing and not whether they’d have a few more or less bawbees.
There are so many sound reasons for a nation to embraced sovereignty but the 'gloomy science ' as Scot, Thomas Carlyle called political economy - and which so many of our Unionist friends use as a basis for an unnatural Union has seldom been a major motive for small nations seeking autonomy.
Scotland is a unique land - sadly it is unique in that perhaps no other nation in the World has so many of its citizens unwilling to take dominion over their own destiny and be in control of their own future.

34

J. E.,

20/03/2007 10:21:46

Anti Englishness on the islands is unfortunately widespread, but it must be remembered that the picture is complicated by some incomers who embrace Gaelic culture with a vigour that leaves many natural born Gaels bemused. For example, next week the public funded Gaelic film Seachd is to premiere; but the producer, who is an incomer to the Isle of Skye, chaired the steering committee of the Gaelic group which campaigned for English medium children to be excluded from their local school in Sleat. Some argue that these Gaelic converts are set ablaze by the discovery of a great cultural richness, though others suggest . . .

35

james 1st,

nz 20/03/2007 10:41:20

there is a comment about people having patriotism for their country , one assumes the the independence supporters are patriotic towarda scotland, and the unionists patriotic towards england of which most people in the world believe to be englands northernmost county. scotland currently does not qualify as a country it has no independent parliament. the ioc , un and eu do not recognise it as a country merely part of the united kingom. throughout the world the vast majority of people regard the united kingdom as another name for england. if the scottish electorate do not vote for independence then fifa should kick scotland out of internetional competition as it does not really qualify

36

james 1st,

nz 20/03/2007 10:48:48

too many scots have died in the name of freedom over a number of wars, to date their sacrifice has not made scotland free, independence would allow the scots to create a new and more mature relatioship with england and the rest of the world. might even be that there would be much less rancour in the feelings of many towards england. and frankly if scotland cant win world cups in rigby ,soccer or cricket i would prefer england to win to anyone else

37

In the Dark,

Sticking my oar in 20/03/2007 10:51:53

I was born in England and lived there for the first 29 years of my life. My family were all born in Scotland but my parents moved to England for work. To my English friends I am Scottish and, whilst this does cause some banter, most of them are very positive about it.

I have grown up arguing with school teachers about the very Anglo-centric history that is taught as British history. Putting my money where my mouth is I have moved to live in the land of my fathers and am very glad that I did. I could have stayed put and earned a lot more money but I moved for non-economic reasons.

The question of Independence for Scotland is a complex one and is not just a patriotic or an economic decision. If Scotland is to be viable as an independent nation then it must be able to attract the best people to help it get there. If the criteria include a requirement that people cannot move here from England then Independence will be still-born.

Ask the people that have moved away from Scotland why they did so. The answers that you receive will be illuminating and I think will help address what kind of nation Scotland should be.

38

Maxie1,

20/03/2007 11:11:12

I think some of the comments are quite telling, especially from the person that didnt realise the Scots and English are different.

This is due to her ignorance and her lack of knowledge and respect for those differences.

Its important that neighbouring nationalities respect each other. Thats the way it happens all over Europe and the world.

She just happened to discover the difference when she moved from England to Scotland, as if its just the Scots being awkward!

I also cant believe the comment from the person that never heard any anti-Scottish sentiment in England. I hear it every day!

I suggest it is so part and parcel of English society that many are blind to it and consider it normal and acceptable behaviour.

Its just when they happen to be on the receiving end of it that they recognise that prejudice exists!

Obviously, we should all seek to overcome such prejudices. However, we shouldnt believe for a minute that it only exists in Scotland and not in England!

That would be prejudiced claptrap!

39

northerner,

England 20/03/2007 11:15:56

There are loads of Scots in England. I live in a small town and have several as neighbours. They all comment about the anti-Englishness in Scotland and say they are ashamed of it. There are so many here, that there must surely be more Scots in England than in Scotland itself.

Scotland is obsessed with England. Everything they do is measured against its bigger neighbour, every success is used to cock a snook at that neighbour and every failure is ultimately blamed on that neighbour.

England must get its Independence, because we can't move forward as a nation with Scotland hanging onto our coat-tails, blaming England for its racism and addiction problems. We've simply had enough and even children need to grow up, move out and stand on their own two feet at some point.

Scots are fast becoming a minority in their own country now though, with the huge influx of European and Middle Eastern people that are now flowing into that country. With such a small population, it won't take long for them to overtake the Scottish as the majority. It will probably be a good thing, too.

40

Maxie1,

20/03/2007 11:23:24

#41 northerner

"There are loads of Scots in England. I live in a small town and have several as neighbours...There are so many here, that there must surely be more Scots in England than in Scotland itself"

With all due respect, THAT type of prejudice and inaccurate thinking is part of the problem.

There are about 750,000 Scots living in England (1.5% of the population) with 410,000 English people living in Scotland (9.5% of the population).

Scotland's population is just under 5.1 million with only a few tens of thousands coming from eastern Europe!

41

J. E.,

20/03/2007 12:03:16

39 - re Sleat Primary School
When you say it makes sense to reverse the roles, I think that you lack a complete understanding of what such a measure means for non-Gaelic speaking pupils. Remember that all pupils who speak Gaelic also speak English; but this is not true in reverse. Another important point I think you should consider is that the majority of parents - Gaelic speaking parents included - opposed any change in the status of the school.

42

IWright,

Edinburgh 20/03/2007 12:19:42

Ken S

Yes, the Daily Telegraph deals with the Scottish issue quite a lot, unfortunately its usually in a very negative and sometimes racist way. And the comments that get posted! Well I just wish some of the unionists here would read the Telegraph comments, some of it disturbing and blatantly racist.
Also, I've tried several times to post comments in reply but they never get accepted despite using non-offensive language. True prejudice, they just don't want to hear a counter argument.

43

Tru Scot,

Over Here 20/03/2007 12:23:49

I was reading some of the postings with interest. I came across #25Ken S post Has anyone read the Telegraph postings? If anyone needs a reason why most Scots want to keep the english at arms length you do not have to go further than these postings. As for the Anti-english comments above, the englishman who settle in Scotland are getting off lightly it seems. I would be interested to get some feed back on this posting.

44

Adso,

Edinburgh 20/03/2007 12:24:21

Of course this turned into a Scotland England debate!! Who is the worst?

I know one thing for sure. In Scotland there is an abundance of racists/bigots/totally prejudiced who hate the English, Irish, Blacks, Muslims, Asians, Protestants, Catholics, Gays, Eastern Europeans, Students................. the list goes on. There are a lot of people in this society who have closed minds and no tolerance or understanding for anything different.

Perhaps the question to ask is - why is this the case? Is it because we lack national identity? Because we are constantly told that we are too weak, unskillful, poor or dependant to stand on our own two feet as a nation? Because we seldolmly have anything contemporary to be proud about? Because our country is backward thinking and does not invest in the future/infrastructure/sports/education leading to a situation whereby it is difficult to find hope in the future?

I think it is a mix of the above that leaves us with a bit of an inferiority complex that manifests itself as a dislike for all who are different to ourselves - by criticising others for their differences we can feel good about ourselves. I reckon we need a shake up and we need some feeling of national pride to drive this country forward.

To qualify my points I am not talking about all scots. I am talking about a minority - not a small minority but a minority nonetheless.

In response to the writers claiming anti-scots does not exist in England that is a total nonsense. Perhaps you don't hear it in the same way because you are not on the sharp end of it. At an induction to my new company recently a senior manager described one of his colleagues as a 'Jock B*st*rd'. Of course that's just banter although imagine if his colleague had been 'black' rather than 'jock' - banter then?

45

matthew in davao,

philippines 20/03/2007 12:41:47

i left scotland in 1950. i was 16. alone i have lived in a fair number of countries. i have never , ever heard an english person say, i am british, never. always. i am english. i have an english passport. which of course we all know is bullshit. never was such an animal. i have some english aquaintances. i tolerate them. i guess they really dont mean any harm. they just dont know any better.

46

Calum Crubag,

20/03/2007 12:57:30

Funny, the attitudes towards Poles and English in Scotland. In Skye, most of the English i met were middle-class and had sold houses in the south of England and set up craft shops or potteries, therefore contributing virtually nothing to local life apart from forcing house prices up. Most Poles on the other hand seem to come here and work their arses off picking our veg or fruit for a year or two, earn some money, learn English and then return to Poland.

It should be noted that the English too are hugley xenophobic - against asylum seekers, the Welsh, Irish, Scots, French, Germans etc.

47

Comerscroft,

20/03/2007 13:18:44

*** 46 ***

Interesting, your comment about banter.

30 odd years ago, my English mother, then a customer of the Bank of Scotland in the local highland village to which they had moved, went in to cash a cheque. As she approached the counter, she heard the teller, a young local man, say 'here's the English git coming'.

She challenged him to repeat what he had said, and he was red with embarrassment. She complained to the manager and closed her account. He was transferred to another branch shortly after.

Only banter??

Why not say 'English bitch' or 'English bastard'?

However, this couthy young Scot had forgotten the first rule of retailing/service industries/tourism ---the customer pays the wages, and is king.

48

Tru Scot,

Over Here 20/03/2007 13:28:19

#49 So by the looks of things you get narrow minded people on both sides of the border. Only thing is when we Scots decide to give a little of what we take we get transferred/fired. Nothing but what he/she deserves EH RIGHT DOLL!

49

Comerscroft,

20/03/2007 13:44:01

*** 50 ***

He was transferred because he was rude to a customer.

But of course........the Scots believe in 'speaking their minds'---when they are not cringing/whingeing/chipping about their grievances. You are an excellent example.

If the English tourists knew what their hosts---with their false '1000 welcomes' really think of their guests, they wouldn't come near Scotland.

THEN the Scots would really have something to complain about---no tourists>> no income.

50

Ken S.,

England 20/03/2007 13:55:46

#44. IWright,
.."Yes, the Daily Telegraph deals with the Scottish issue quite a lot, unfortunately its usually in a very negative and sometimes racist way..."

I would disagree about "very negative", unless by that you simply mean that the DT is pro-Union. An article by Alex Salmond in prime position in the paper hardly counts as negative.

"Sometimes racist"? no, no, no - except in the ridiculous PC sense that a comment about a nation is by definition racist. Define the ethnic uniqueness about a Scot (or English, Welsh etc)!

"..And the comments that get posted!... "
Agreed. Some of them just as virulent as the anti-English bile that flavours some of the Scotsman boards. Apart from Telegraph readership possibly being somewhat larger than the population of Scotland, and therefore the number of antis being proportionately higher, the DT site is not in real time, like this one is. Thus people tend to make pronouncements rather than interactive debating points. Try that on this site and you're liable to get hammered immediately by other posters!

"..Also, I've tried several times to post comments in reply but they never get accepted ..."True prejudice, they just don't want to hear a counter argument..."
That certainly applies to the BBC website but I've certainly not experienced it on the Telegraph one, when having an opposing view on whatever topic was posted.

".. they just don't want to hear a counter argument..."
Not so. Though hard to find, there are some, e.g. "I wish you English would stop whingeing", "Try seeing past your dull tiresome sterotypes of Scots", "The Nationalists have earned the chance to show whether they can match words with deeds".

51

SouthernSkye,

Awaiting the return of the illusive Scaramouche 20/03/2007 14:13:58

Rather depressing reading this comments section...don't you think?

Blame and counter blame.
Name and counter name.


New Labour blame the Tories.
Catholics blame Protestant
Protestant blame Catholic
Scots blame the English.
English blame the Germans
Everybody blames the French.
We all blame the EU.
And it's all the fault of the Americans.

I hope my vote for the SNP will help bring them to power.
Then I hope they can start to bring some order and common sense to leading us forwards and everyone within Scotland working towards the same goal.
A bright, healthy, stable future.

until tomorrow.
Adios.

52

Tru Scot,

Over Here 20/03/2007 14:14:04

#51 Like I said both sides, and I take it you are english as it sounds that way to me. Anyway the point I am trying to make is that certain members of both countries are very narrow minded when it comes to the people on the other side.

53

Adso,

Edinburgh 20/03/2007 14:24:09

#51/49

I was making the point that there are many many prejudiced scots who hold anti-'everything that's not like me' sentiments. There are lots who particularly dislike the English - no doubt.

You however are demonstrating yourself to be similarly prejudiced......

"the Scots believe in 'speaking their minds'---when they are not cringing/whingeing/chipping about their grievances"

......'the scots' - is that all of us? Do we all give a thousand false welcomes? It seems that YOU are one that is prejudiced. It's better to know that - easier to put your future comments in context!

54

Greig frae oz,

Comin home if we go Indie 20/03/2007 14:30:28

Im no anti english.........Ah jest dont like them
Well thats no true either.
Ah do quite like them ah jest couldnae eat a hale yin, chuch tough.
Well thats what the amazons reckon
Its time

55

Vivian,

USA 20/03/2007 16:06:06

#53 **And it's all the fault of the Americans.**

Thanks for that, it wouldn't seem like a day on the Scotsman blogs if I didn't read something to that effect!!! LOL

Your Scottish/English issues sounds very much like our white/black issues here.

56

Scythia,

Glasgow 20/03/2007 16:29:12

Some interesting opinions in the report .If anybody
thinks there is no anti-scottishness in England they are deluding themselves. Just pick up the London Telegraph.
It is clear from the Scotland 300 reports up and down the country, that there is a large number English coming into this country - some say 250,000 since 2001 making a total of 750,000 (slightly less than the total Scots in England) - 14%. a ratio
of 1:6. When you get such high numbers of outsiders buying up the property in the nicest areas thereby driving out the young people, you are bound to get friction. This is exasebated by the
English themselves who can display quite astonishing arrogance as evidenced by the comment
"I didn't know I was English until I came to Scotland. If they don't think you're up here to contribute something to the community, you'll be seen as a threat." The feeling that they want to take over. Furthermore, there is a perception
that they want to create an extension of England here in Scotland -the Sleat Gaelic medium school a good example. The level of inward migration is unprecedented, I just wonder what people actually want -one big monolithic culture containing precisely
nothing, or a uniqueness that distinguishes us as Scots.

57

Derek,

Southampton,England 20/03/2007 16:34:39

Hopefully the SNP will win in May and Scotland and England can go their own independent ways. Perhaps England will then leave the EU and all you Scots wanting to work in England will have to apply for a work permit. Wouldn't that be fun.

58

SouthernSkye,

Waiting for Scaramouche. 20/03/2007 17:05:31

#57 Vivian.
No offense meant.
I was just pointing out that it is always easy to be negative and point the finger elsewhere. There is such a great chance right now to throw off the yoke of New Labour.
So many positives, yet the negatives keep surfacing.
I'm the same myself some days, so I know sometimes a "negative venting session" is needed.

59

IWright,

Edinburgh 20/03/2007 17:14:52

#52
Ken- Thanks for your reply.

Yes, they printed an article by Alex Salmond - that's a plus. However it's not a lot compared to the almost daily diet of hostile comment.
Is the DT pro Union? They seem to be more English independence these days (nothing wrong with that).
I find the DT generally negative towards Scots rather than positive about the Union. Like most of the English media they view the SNP as being anti-English rather than pro-Scottish.
One thing that distinguishes the DT (and other English papers) from the Scotsman is that hostile comments are made in the editorials and by certain commentators: Simon Heffer and Boris Johnson (although Heffer is much worse than Johnson).
Racism - well nowadays that's shorthand for nations as well as races. Do not be in any doubt Ken - there is blatant anti-Scottish racism in the Telegraph, mostly by readers posting but Heffer also.
There is also legitimate criticism of the West Lothian Question, etc a lot of posters can tell the difference but a lot obviously can't.
And yes, some counter arguments get posted but why is every comment of mine not posted? None were offensive. I emailed the Telegraph about it but got no reply. The only thing I can think of is that they want to minimise the counter arguments and let the "true voice" of the Telegraph stand out.

The quicker we get mutual independence the quicker we can get out of this tedious and unpleasant hostility and build a better relationship.

60

Vivian,

USA 20/03/2007 17:28:24

Southernskye,

No offense taken! As I was reading thru the posts, I couldn't help but notice no one had blamed the Americans for anything yet, which they always do! You weren't blaming, you pointed out something pertinent and a constant on these boards. And you're right, we can all find SOMETHING OR SOMEONE to blame for just about anything.

61

Carol S,

England 20/03/2007 19:44:55

All the racism against the English in Scotland would not be allowed by the RRB against any other minority. In some of you it gets out of hand and you care much more than your southern counterparts.

62

oder,

Scotland 20/03/2007 21:34:04

*63 Carol S
No racism against scots in England then? you dont read the Telegrah eh! must be more in England, the law of stastistics 50 Million to 5 Million in Scotland RRB not doing there job ...Hmmm well , there maybe Labour cronies in the RRB but I am sure there not Scots.

63

oder,

Scotland 20/03/2007 21:35:16

Sorry should read Telegraph

64

Paula,

20/03/2007 21:51:29

Anyone who thinks the English have no anti-Scots sentiments must have been hiding in a peat bog their entire lives. The patronising, whinging prejudice that Scots are all halfwits just out to live off the nice English neighbours is a belief many English have and are eager to say so in the media.

And perhaps these small towns would not feel so intimidated by incomers if they didn't push the house prices up so much. I grew up in a small village where my parents were seen as outsiders despite hailing from towns less than 15 miles away, it was a joke amongst the villagers and no malice intended, as a villager born and bred I was instantly "one of them." It wasn't a Deliverence type of thing at all but just a way of teasing the "incomers." We had two sets of English neighbours, and both families considered themselves adopted Scots and would complain to us about the "bl**dy English!"

English need a sense of humour, the ones who do are the ones who fit in perfectly.

65

Carol S,

England 21/03/2007 08:19:14

Paula have you ever lived in England, like me? What preconcieved ideas you have. You remind me of a certain Irish reverend politician. It's people like you that are making the English anti-Scottish.

66

Silver Shred,

England 21/03/2007 12:09:02

It's simply not true that there is no anti-Scottish feeling in England.

I've had eggs thrown at my door, dirt placed in my door lock (requiring a locksmith to rectify), car aeriel broken etc etc.

Mind you, there seems to be a remarkable ignorance of anywhere outside Lothian among the staff of the Scotsman - viz "In the smaller towns of the central belt - notably Paisley", unless there's a second place of that name, distinct from Scotland's largest town, that has escaped my notice.


 

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