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Delay on new schools drags into 2011

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Published Date: 18 June 2009
THE SNP government has said it will not build a single new school during its four years in office, prompting accusations that ministers have failed Scottish schoolchildren.
The admission was taken as evidence by the opposition that the SNP's much-vaunted Scottish Futures Trust (SFT) has been an expensive failure.

Education secretary Fiona Hyslop yesterday announced a long-awaited £1.25 billion school building progr
amme, but said the first primary will not be ready until mid-2011 – almost certainly after the next Holyrood election.

The first new secondary will not open until 2013 and some children will be waiting until 2018 for their new school.

Ms Hyslop also faced questions over why it has taken more than two years for her to announce the package when one- third of Scotland's schools, totalling 832, are officially in poor or bad condition.

Opponents pointed out that the funding package announced yesterday could have been brought forward at any time in the last two years.

"Fiona Hyslop should feel personally ashamed by this announcement," said Labour education spokeswoman Rhona Brankin. "By failing to name even a single new school that will definitely go ahead, she has let down children and communities in every part of Scotland."

Liberal Democrat education spokeswoman Margaret Smith MSP accused the SNP of "mind-boggling delays".

"We have dragged the education secretary's cat out of the bag," she said. "The SNP is forcing most councils to delay building new schools for up to a decade."

Ms Hyslop said that the Scottish Government had matched the previous Labour/Lib Dem Scottish Executive's pledges and built 250 new schools.

"We said that we would match the previous administration's school-building programme brick for brick and we are – and more," Ms Hyslop said.

Opposition parties argued that these schools were either commissioned under the previous administration or built out of council funds without the involvement of the Scottish Government.

Ms Hyslop also said that the Scottish Futures Trust (SFT), which was supposed to pay and construct new schools and was the main cause for the delay, will only act in an advisory capacity and not pay for or build any of the new schools.

Previously her colleague, the finance secretary John Swinney, had pledged that the first SFT-built school would open in the period of office of the SNP administration – but Ms Hyslop's statement made it clear this almost certainly will not happen.

Opposition politicians said that the announcement was further proof that the SFT, which will cost £4.5 million this year, had been "a waste of money and time".

After an onslaught from MSPs in parliament yesterday, Ms Hyslop failed to appear at a press conference on her announcement, leaving it to officials to answer the difficult questions.

In the chamber, Ms Hyslop did not say which schools would be in the first tranche of the building programme, stating that this was a matter for local authorities.

The school building programme will involve £800 million of Scottish Government money, with councils being asked to find the other £450 million.

The £800 million will come from the capital budgets from 2010/11 to 2016/17.

In the first place, it will directly pay for new schools, but it may also be used to fund not-for-profit-distribution (NPD) – a version of private finance initiatives previously criticised by the SNP.

Councils will find their share either through their own funds or NPD schemes.

The programme failed to impress the EIS, the biggest teaching union, which said it showed the SFT had "failed to deliver."

But the announcement was welcomed by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Its education spokeswoman Isabel Hutton said: "This is a win-win situation. It is a win for councils, who have additional money for a priority area and, perhaps even more importantly, it is a win for pupils and teachers who will learn and teach in state-of-the-art facilities."

PROGRAMME

Timetable of SFT schools projects:

September 2009 – Announcement of first tranche of 14 secondary schools, tied in with publication of new School Estate Strategy.

By end 2009 – Announcement of first tranche of 14 primary schools.

Mid 2010 – Construction starts on first primary school.

Early 2011 – Announcement of second tranche of both primary and secondary schools.

2011 – Construction starts on first secondary school and first primary school completed.

2013? – Construction completed on first secondary school.

2014-15? – Construction completed on last primary school.

2017-18? Last secondary school completed.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 June 2009 11:48 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

,

17/06/2009 22:42:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
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2

Nevsky;,

Moscow 17/06/2009 23:14:16
SNP have done pretty well on this and by any standards a reasonable and realistic timetable...also funded with 800 million directly and the rest in not for profit schemes which is another step forward from PFI.


You both seemed to have missed the last paragraph:

'Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Its education spokeswoman Isabel Hutton said: "This is a win-win situation. It is a win for councils, who have additional money for a priority area and, perhaps even more importantly, it is a win for pupils and teachers who will learn and teach in state-of-the-art facilities.'

So by 2018 Scotland under the SNP will have state of the art schools...more votes in 2010 for the SNP...great stuff!
3

Jerry Springer,

17/06/2009 23:21:18
3 Nevsky;,Moscow 17/06/2009 23:14:16
SNP have done pretty well on this and by any standards a reasonable and realistic timetable...
================================================

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YEAH RIGHT!
4

Nevsky;,

Moscow 17/06/2009 23:47:32
4 Jerry*

It might have escaped you attention but Labour were in power for 10 years and still the schools were not brought up to scratch.

You can't plan the overhaul of the entire system and have it done in 18 months you cretin...so yes the timetable is probably a realistic one.

Scotland will also not be paying for the schools for 40 years under PFI...so again i refer you to the last paragraph!
5

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 00:14:30
3 Nevsky;,Moscow 17/06/2009 23:14:16
So by 2018 Scotland under the SNP will have state of the art schools...more votes in 2010 for the SNP...great stuff!
=====================================================
Also in 2018....................

Britney Spears will be the President of the United States.

People will travel to work in flying cars and Scotland will have sent the first astronauts to Venus.

Yes Nevsky, keep taking the tablets.
6

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

18/06/2009 00:32:58
No new schools ever would be far more sensible from a taxpayers point of view, than standing one brick on top of another, under PFI.

From one who's employment for the past five years and continued employment for the next 18 months, was/is entirely dependant on these abominations.
7

Fifi la Bonbon,

18/06/2009 00:37:35
"THE SNP government has said it will not build a single new school during its four years in office..."

Whit?

A couple of weeks they definitely said that they would be setting out plans for at least one school project using the £23 million Scottish Futuristic Trust. I'm sure that there was a letter about it.

Lots of nationalist fans were quite rude about me when I said that this meant that the flagship manifesto commitment Scottish Futuristic Trust was a failure. They said bad things, one person said I was mad, and another called me a traitor and not a real Scot who should believe everything that Mister Salmond says, even if it's completely different to what he said in the past.

Now they've just given up. The Scottish Futuristic Trust is out of the window and they're relying on simple capital funding and a new brand of PFI, same as the old one but with different letters.


8

,

18/06/2009 00:52:16
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9

Marga,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 00:53:23
I see we're not allowed to comment on the North Sea Oil story - maybe they don't want people pointing out all the mistakes.

- Today's document was produced by the Scotland Office "with the co-operation of the Treasury and the Department of Energy" - it says.

Scotland Office and friends briefing against the Scottish Government again - can they not find a better use for taxpayers' money?
10

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 00:59:51
The SFT is nothing more than a bad joke.

There is plenty money to spend on a referendum and there is plenty time to spend on a referendum, but when it comes to Scotland's school children, well forget it.

The SNP has once again failed to deliver.

11

,

18/06/2009 01:00:42
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12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 01:02:18

Well!, At Least, Our New Tynecastle-High-School in Edinburgh, will be completed a year earlier in 2010.

13

Brianwci,

18/06/2009 01:31:46
OIL AND GAS: £20BILLION SHORTFALL

Marvellous what you can do with numbers. Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc can be transformed from desert economies (i.e. have to build a modern civilisation from scratch....goats the main resource)but Scotland, above all other countries in the world discovers Oil and gas and yet somehow or other would not have enough to live on for most of the years Oil has been flowing!

Many words spring to mind, none of them printable.

The sooner the Independence debate gets going so we can nail this sh*te into the ground the better. This is absolutely lunacy.

No, worse, it's downright LIES!!!

I comment here because we are not allowed to challenge this 'filth' in the original article.



14

Edward,

18/06/2009 01:38:24
#14 Brianwci
There must be a general elction closer than we thought, this is the start of the 'Scotland better in the Union' propaganda blizzard. we will get the £20 Billion shortfall story played out ad nauseum together with the usual 'Scots will need passports to visit england' and 'Scots will be worse off if independent'
Expect moreguff from Labour's lapdogs Maddox and MacDonnell in the coming weeks and months
15

hoblar,

18/06/2009 01:49:51

"THE SNP government has said it will not build a single new school during its four years in office, prompting accusations that ministers have failed Scottish schoolchildren.
The admission was taken as evidence by the opposition that the SNP's much-vaunted Scottish Futures Trust (SFT) has been an expensive failure."

Followed immediately by:

"Education secretary Fiona Hyslop yesterday announced a long-awaited £1.25 billion school building programme, but said the first primary will not be ready until mid-2011 – almost certainly after the next Holyrood election."

What a strange way to frame this story.

The criticism of the Scottish Government is, of course, a pure given, but the first part should at least be the announcement rather than Labour's own sad political abyss beckons personal view.

A basic rule of journalism (loose description) is to put the positive Government announcement FIRST, (much as you may dislike it), and then the tired opposition retort LAST.

Cheers
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 02:04:19

All one can say, is the ones that are meant to represent and care, and that were voted in for, have no intentions of their keeping's of, now lies, that promises were made, to get them into Power and Represent our Nation!
An 'UTTER-DISGRACE'!, Displayed by the fact that the, Primary School Children, of Tollcross Primary School in Edinburgh, were 'too-scared' to use their Toilets, because they were in such a state of disrepair's, to-which a mere £10,000 would of corrected!

'SPEAKS SCOTTISH MOUNTAINS',....DON'T IT!??

17

The Busker in Exile,

Notts 18/06/2009 03:06:25
OK lets speak about NuLabs policy on Education,

In a previous Post on sunday,(regarding student teachers not being able to find employment) I stated that over the last 5 years Nulabour have been devaluing education as they have been trying to assimulate all qualifications to the NVQ standard, as they do not wish to hurt the feeling of those who are not acacademiclly inclined.

I stated "tell your local JobCentre Plus Office that you have a Degree (no matter what the subject),and they will note this on their computer as an NVQ Level 5. If you do not agree please ... feel free to contact DWP.

I also stated that a fully qualified hairdresser will be put down as an NVQ Level 2 or 3 depending on what they have achieved.

Please can a Nulab Flunky explain this nonesense?

Where am I going with this, well?

NuLabour spin.... its rubbish and nobody is now going to fall fot it. If the Hootsmon had any Journalistic integretity they would never print this Bull

This article above plus the one about the oil, which we cannot cannot reply to is garbage.

The Busker in Exile
NVQ Level 7 (Dundee)





18

The Busker in Exile,

Notts 18/06/2009 03:07:55
Sorry that should have been

The Busker in Exile
NVQ Level 7 in Economics (Dundee)
19

Fletty73,

Stirling 18/06/2009 03:20:23
PFI is like a credit card with 100% APR. Labour may have delivered schools but it certainly did not pay for them. It is good to see the SNP are trying to put a stop to this expensive mess they have inherited.
20

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 03:31:08
#20 Yes Great Point and it sums up the SNP.

Unless we can get schools without paying for them let's not have any schools.

What a plan.
21

redcliffe62,

18/06/2009 04:37:57
the fact the oil story written by mad dog is off limits for comments merely confirms he could not handle the facts getting in the way of a good yarn.
of course the oil would have put scotland in surplus, following a norwegian business model. yet to find anyone except mad dog saying having oil supplies was a bad thing for a country will be hard. 40 countries around the world with oil i would imagine, and all doing nicely thank you EXCEPT scotland.
i have a crazy idea; what about changing the border for oil illegally without discussion and set up a way of hiding the surplus in consolidated revenue so the scots do not know how much has been collected?
what do you mean london already did that?
22

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 05:25:00
Tut Tut Baggy Troosers.

When all else fails, start name calling and issuing insults.

Typical Nat behaviour unfortunately.
23

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 05:27:42
Salmond's position is becoming more untenable by the day. He should do the decent thing and resign before he is pushed.

Scottish Futures Trust? Straight out of Disneyland that one.
24

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 05:29:31
As I said before, in light of this latest revelation, anyone who votes for the SNP now, needs to be committed to an asylum.

Case in point.

Baggy Troosers, who will you be voting for?
25

Jerry Springer,

18/06/2009 05:32:37
New SNP slogan for the next election campaign...

'Its Scotlands Oil Cash shortfall'.
26

Nevsky;,

Moscow 18/06/2009 05:53:32
27 Jerry*

Should read 'Scotland's Oil Cash Shortfall Within the Union'....

If Scotland had oil and independence 30 years ago it would dobtless today be one of the wealthiest countries in Europe.

The figues take no account whatsoever of an independent Scottish economy and bases ALL assumptions on Scotland within the union.....it's a laughable attempt.

If Norway had been in the Union it would today be around the level of Armenia of course!
27

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 07:22:45
Delighted to know that the SNP did not continue to build schools using PFI/PPP so saving a small fortune over the next 30 years.
OK, there has been a delay getting under way but if they can now build about three schools for the long term cost of one who cares.
THe SNP have made sure that PFI/PPP contracts are no longer a licence to print money at public expense. As Westminster has made sure that they have no borrowing powers, in most cases this is the only option on the table.
28

,

18/06/2009 07:28:40
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29

,

18/06/2009 07:29:58
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30

Herry Oaksters,

18/06/2009 08:00:38
The unionist puppets are out in force today, sad deluded little?
Ignore the paid trolls .
Vote SNP the only party that puts the people first.
31

brownlie,

18/06/2009 08:08:47
33 Hagbard

"Lying, dishonest, idiotic charlatan" - are you not pre-empting the result of the Iraqi invasion inquiry?

On scales of dishonesty how would you rate Swinney's interpretation of budget reports compared with Blair's interpretation of "intelligence"reports?
32

English Voice,

18/06/2009 08:12:50
33. Hi AM2!

"Lying, dishonest, idiotic charlatan"

Well indeed

AM2: "I will never post here again!"

AM2: "I never owned such a car"....."I have had tht car crushed"

Anyway, good to see you back to obsessive haunting of the boards through the wee small hours!
33

English Voice,

18/06/2009 08:14:10
33 AM2 says "So Swinney's pretending that only the current budget "counts" and capital spending doesn't matter"

or, in other words, the same accounting approach the Uk has been using for the previous 15 years - shameful!
34

TWC,

exLabour 18/06/2009 08:15:28
There are a lot of Poodles on here today claiming dishonesty by the Nats and even if all of it were true it is as nothing compared to the Dishonesty of the expenses and Iraq.
The oil figures are again being manipulated. Claims like these will surely play into the Nats hands. I don't want independence and I don't believe Whitehall's figures(I haven't seen the Scottish claims yet)

Positive case for union can be made using FFA and if we are short of money then it will be up front and obvious.
35

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 08:21:22
Why are we not allowed to comment on Scotlkand Office's fiddled figures on Scotland's Oil.

STV 6 o'clock Scottish News Wednesday 17th's edition

Employment: the rise in Scottish unemployment was analysed. Expert opinions were sought from Jim Murphy and Theresa May... naturally. Given it was unemployment in Scotland, you would have expected someone from The Scottish Government to be interviewed. I suppose the editor didn't want to hear an SNP person telling Scots that unemployment in Scotland is lower than in England.

Scottish Futures Trust: this article gave air to Andy Kerr, Murdo Fraser and Mark Hellowell, from Edinburgh University's Centre for International Public Health Policy, all talking down the Scottish Government's SFT.
Yet again there was no SNP spokesperson.

Last night's coverage of the demonstrations in Iran by the Iranian State Broadcaster ISB was better balanced than this bilge from STV. The ISB showed the opposition demonstrators marching through Tehran whilst in Scotland our own STV didn't let anyone from the Scottish Government speak. Is Scotland the only country in the world where it's the elected government that can't get air time?
36

dunedin bully wee 1877,

18/06/2009 08:22:55
33 Hagbard Celine,
“ More evidence that Swinney is either an idiot or a liar:
Lying, dishonest, idiotic charlatan.”

Not so!
You have just exposed your total lack of understanding of one of the main principles of accountancy and that is to separate Capital and Revenue expenditure.

In accountancy terms Capital expenditure is accounted for over the useful life of the asset purchased by way of depreciation, and not written off entirely in the first year of purchase as you are attempting to do.

You are confusing two entirely different concepts, i.e. Profit & Loss account (which is of course entirely Revenue based), and the Balance Sheet account (which is a record of Capital expenditure and remaining fixed and current asset value).

Your figures obviously take no account of the value of the remaining assets, and therefore do not show a true reflection of the actual picture.

What the GERS report was attempting to portray in that analysis is actually a Cash-Flow Statement and should not be confused with a Profit & Loss account.
37

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 08:42:32
PFI will save the taxpayers millions of pounds when compared to the expensive credit card borrowing associated with PPP/PFI.
38

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 08:43:09
Sorry should read: Scottish Futures Trust will save the taxpayers millions of pounds when compared to the expensive credit card borrowing associated with PPP/PFI
39

,

18/06/2009 08:46:43
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40

dunedin bully wee 1877,

18/06/2009 08:54:58
41 Hagbard Celine,

I think my explanation @ #40 should have been sufficiently clear even for you.

In statisticians speak, “estimated fiscal balance “ equates to “Cash-Flow” and not “Profit & Loss”.
The difference is as explained above.
41

The Tin Man,

18/06/2009 09:16:18
#45 Linda gets 'post of the day' award, in my opinion.

Certainly much funnier than the creeping-death slow-motion tedium of whatever it is that the article is about.
42

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 09:17:45
Brick for Brick (cough)
43

TWC,

exLabour 18/06/2009 09:17:56
50 Hagbard Celine,

SFT is worth a try, better some dynamic attempts than just accepting failure in the Nu LAbour way.

Every time we get Labour we get economic disaster and continuing downward spiral.
When we get some proposals from a SCOTTISH Labour group for SCOTLAND then we can consider voting for them again.
Until then they will go the way of the dodo which they increasingly resemble.
44

The Tin Man,

18/06/2009 09:32:42
#55 Fox

I seen that in his speech to the 'Forbes Conference', Comrade Alex has been arguing in favour of abolishing the age-old socially-engineered redistributive personal tax system, and replacing it with an equitable flat-rate for all, coupled with lower business rates, and lower corporation tax.

That is so far to the right, that he would need the Hubble Space Telescope to spot any poor people.
45

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 09:33:07
#53 I too am going to dynamically not build schools for four years, watch this space it's going to be spectacular!
46

noswod,

Honestas 18/06/2009 09:45:22
The futures truct that has no future. Wit a waste of time by the SNP and indicative of what would happen if Scotland was independent. No one would lend tae the Scots before the banks went bust because they knew Scotland was already bust and totally dependant frae free money frae WhiteHa tae keep the economny on the road. If this bunch of numphies had no got elected these schools would have beinbg built now, new railways tae Edinburgh Airport and tae the poor borders wid have being in the middle of construction and thr Fourth Road bridge wid hae being getting started but no. What Scotland has missed out on a once in 100 years investment boom because of the mindless intransidenge and lack of intellengence by a bunch O people who believe in the false copncept of Indepence equals freedom, Independence equals poverty.
47

TWC,

exLabour 18/06/2009 09:46:01
57 Elethiomel

What are you going to do?? you are obviously still a Labour supporter which means you don't do anything for Scotland. SLAB just sit at Holyrood suckin' lemons and greetin' never proposing anything for Scotland unless GB and Morph say it first.
Nats are trying very hard and if their policy was FFA instaed of full Independence they would certainly have by vote without qualification.
48

The Tin Man,

18/06/2009 09:46:44
#58 Fox

Thank you for your valuable contribution, reader.

As your terms of endearment are not emanating from the SNP, I suggest you find some fresh ones from your comrades, by raking around here:

http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/title.htm
49

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 09:56:46
#60 I'm not a Labour supporter. I'm just someone who was lied to about a school building programme.

Amazing as it sounds the whole world doesn't revolve around the independence argument. Most people don't care as long as their kids aren't educated in a slum but rather a new school building, just like the Scottish Government said they would be.

50

The Tin Man,

18/06/2009 10:01:58
#63 Elethiomel

People who rank independence ahead of schools they have what people like you comepletely lack - self-esteem, self-sufficiency, pride, guts, everything that people like you lack.
51

The Tin Man,

18/06/2009 10:03:38
#64 Fox

The big story of 'political hatred' on this thread is You.
52

frank mcbride,

lusitania 18/06/2009 10:07:01
The Daily NuLabourman continues to pour out its message of negativity and despair.

It tells its readers that a well thought out plan for the building of 50 new schools, using public funds rather than the usurous PFI/PPP, is a failure.

It does not explain that this programme, which will save Scottish taxpayers £ms, has been delayed due to the repayment costs of the totally discredited PFI/PPP, championed by the funders of Big Business - NuLabour/Tories.

Also, it continues to peddle the gloom & doom myth of Scotland being too poor to exist as an Independent Nation State.
It give credence to assertions made by a discredited NuLabour politician, J. Murphy, in an article that is lacking any proofs and, refusing to allow comments.

From the above, one can only assume that NuLabour requires to use this distorted reporting (propaganda) as it has no answer to the good governance of the SNP Government, nor does it have any genuine basis on which to assert Scotland's penury.
53

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/06/2009 10:14:30
I wonder how many articles the Scotsman will have to day with SNP broken this and that?

Apparently pointing out the obvious is scoring cheap political points according to the Scotsman.

So using the taxpayers money more effectively is bad obviously.

From the amount of squealing from this newspaper the SNP have hit all the right buttons again.
54

frank mcbride,

lusitania 18/06/2009 10:23:41
#63, Elthiomel.

Who has lied to you about the school building programme?

Has, or has not, the SNP Government built an equivalent number of schools, in its term so far, to that of the previous NuLab/LD Administration?

Has, or has not, the SNP Government, brought forward a future schools' building programme based on a more financially sound funding method?

Elthiomel, just because NuLabour, together with the rest of the Unionist Alliance, says that something is true, does not necessarily mean that it is so. Indeed, the facts of the schools' building programme give lie to NuLabour's propaganda.

As I said, in an earlier comment, NuLabour and the rest of the Unionist Alliance require to use negativity as they have no concrete proposals of their own.
55

,

18/06/2009 10:27:12
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56

alanh,

ek 18/06/2009 10:28:32
Can anyone give me the details ,or direct me to where to look, of HOW many schools were actually built while the last administration were in power? Then give the figures, or direct me, to how many schools have been built while the present govt have been in power?

Are the opposition, and this propaganda sheet , saying that NO new schools will be built from 2007- 2011? Or is this just more spin and they mean no further schools have been commissioned since this govt came into power but schools are actually being built and paid for thru the PFI hp payments that the last lot left all future govts until 2025
57

alanh,

ek 18/06/2009 10:29:30
just to add that its ridiculous that this propaganda sheet will not allow comments on the Oil fairytale
58

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 10:41:16
#65 What right have you to address me like that, you don't know me, your just making assumptions like your fellow poster.

One of the SNP's big problems is that rather than attempting to convince voters who support other parties of their view with things like facts, they just slag them off instead. If your're an example of what people living in an independent Scotland should be like I'll leave it thankyou.

#64 The Scottish Government, and now you.

They said they would match the previous executive's school building programme “brick for brick”, the previous executive's school building programme would have started several new projects school this parliament, the Scottish Government is not going to, they haven’t matched it, they probably knew they couldn't, they lied.




59

Marian,

18/06/2009 10:42:52
New Labour are indignantly pointing to the SNP to blame for the neglect of our schools infrastructure but the SNP have only been in power for 2 years.

Before the SNP came into power the "old" and then the "new" Labour party had been in power in Scotland's local authorities for at least 50 years so what were they doing then to ensure school buildings were maintained properly? We have also had a UK "New" Labour government for 12 years controlling Scotland's expenditure on education and what did they do to maintain schools properly?

The answer of course is not nearly enough as school buildings wouldn't be in the poor state many are now alleged to be without the neglect by old and new Labour. It is also interesting to note that this did not appear to be a "problem" for Labour when they were in power.

New Labour like to claim that PFI or PPP as it is now called is a good way to fund capital investment but the fact is that it has been a financial disaster due to the onerous costs involved for a poor and sometimes shoddy return for many local authorities and Health Boards who had so little knowledge and experience of what they were letting themselves in for, that they were literally taken to the cleaners.

PFI/PPP was never anything other than a device get round the EU Public Sector Borrowing (PSB) rules which is probably its only rather dubious claim to fame, as the recipients faced exorbitant interest rates and running costs. Indeed the long term effects are already crippling health boards and now some local authorities in England and we shall soon see the same legacy here in Scotland as the full costs are realised over the next few years.

The article claims that not one school will be completed by the SNP government by May 2011, however it fails to point out that commissioning of renewals has already begun under a scheme that will prove in time to be far less costly to the taxpayer than the discredited PFI/PPP programme.

60

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 10:43:28
Cool two different sign ins, that's unusual (sic)
61

Miss H,

18/06/2009 10:52:32
1 Would you care to address the facts?

The facts are that under 8 years of Labour/Lib Dem government funding was provided for around 320 new or refurbished schools. Under its partnership agreement, the previous Administration promised to renew 100 schools between the end of 2006 and 2009.

Under the SNP administration over 150 school rebuilding or refurbishment projects have been completed since May 2007.

The additional funding secured through the Scottish Futures Trust will enable at least 250 new or refurbished schools will be delivered by 2011.

So in eight years of Lib/Lab rule 320 schools were either built or refurbished. In 4 years of SNP rule 250 schools will be built or refurbished. Those are facts which have not been challenged by Labour or by the Lib Dems.

Instead the argument is made that many of these schools were commissioned when Labour were in office.

So what?

What did people think would happen? Should the SNP have scrapped all the school projects which were previously commissioned and started again from scratch? What a piece of nonsense. Every government carries forward funding for the capital projects that have been commissioned by its predecessor unless there is a specific reason not to do so.

The whole argument put forward by Labour is actually a piece of nonsense. I encourage you to continue with it. Indeed I think you should all go out and buy sandwich boards and parade up and down the high streets, maybe barking like dogs as you go. That's about the size of it really.
62

alanh,

ek 18/06/2009 10:55:47
#69 cher
"They said they would match the previous executive's school building programme “brick for brick”, the previous executive's school building programme would have started several new projects school this parliament, the Scottish Government is not going to, they haven’t matched it, they probably knew they couldn't, they lied."

how many schools were built under the last adminstration ? How long did it take for them to introduce the PFI get rich quick schemes for future employment when they first came into power? Did they pay for them or get them on HP?
how many schools have so far been build under this govt ? Have they now announced further new builds?
63

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 10:56:25
#73 I dont support Labour or answer for them, I stick by my statement though. I haven't slagged off anyone in this thread, but have had this said to me.

#60 (not 65 sorry)
People who rank independence ahead of schools they have what people like you comepletely lack - self-esteem, self-sufficiency, pride, guts, everything that people like you lack.

I can't see any justification for that, you lot should think about it quite carefuly. Do you think it is ok to talk to someone like that just because you have guessed they disagree with your political opinion on a message board, without knwoing anything else about them. If you do you shouldn't wonder why people aren't being convinced by your arguments.
64

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 11:01:45
#77 I'll say what I like, you seem to be able to. Y O U R V3RY S M E L L Y
65

redcliffe62,

18/06/2009 11:04:57
when the hidden cost of labour's finance comes to the fore, and treasury can only hide it for so long, then even having chalk for the blackboards at school will be seen as a luxury.
66

Cheradenine,

18/06/2009 11:07:52
#74 They should have kept commissioning them at this same rate, "Brick for Brick", we were promised them this Parliament, they haven't delivered, who is to say they will deliver next parliament. Now they are basically holding the public to ransom, re-elect us or you're not getting the schools we promised at the last election.

Good luck with the SFT, hasn't funded anything so far.
67

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/06/2009 11:38:58
80 So if the current SNP government commission and provide funding for a building program, that doesn't equate matching brick for brick the previous executive, that's just plain nuts.

So a school has to be commissioned payed for and built within the a term of one parliament using your and labours criteria.

So tell me how much did labour pay in capital costs towards the building of the PPP Schools?
68

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 18/06/2009 11:46:16
#81 Thing is they said they woudl match it brick for brick this parliament, not in four years. You don't have to have them built but you could at least start!

I'm not defending PFI or Labour either, I'm no big fan of either, all I am doing is stating facts, they said they would do it, they haven't. I woudl ahve appreciated it far more had they been honest about it up front, wouldn't have made for great campaign literature though.
69

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/06/2009 12:13:14
82 A parliament last 4 years, remind me again what was announced was it not a program to build / refurbish schools.

Remember wee Wendy getting up at FMQ's and asking a question about wave 3 in Edinburgh, she said that labour would have rebuilt those schools. However a letter from the previous executive said that funding was not guaranteed and would be in the context of the next spending revue.

Labour are claiming they would have commissioned / built 250 in one term of parliament and according to Audit Scotland this compares to 219 in 8 years previously.

Who was misleading who?
70

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/06/2009 12:18:15
82 or put it another way Labour are claiming they would built 5.2 schools a month between 2007 - 2011
71

Miss H,

18/06/2009 12:19:48
82 But they have - and in fact have provided more funding than the previous administration did.
72

David MacVicar,

Web 18/06/2009 12:41:49
Alex Salmond in his element again at FMQs, If this was scorecarded I would say that the opposition didn't lay a finger on Alex while he won every single round with tecnhnical knockouts for good measure.

Salmond ran rings round the opposition on:
Renewable Energy,
Energy targets,
Schools program,
Ministerial code (Humiliating the Liberal leader)
Calman report,
Prison sentencing

And last but not least pulled those on the labour benches for their disgraceful braying while a MSP was asking about job loses.

Re: schools....
The news that the SNP have announced their program a full year earlier than Labour did with theirs was unsurprising but a cruel blow. The SNPs schools program has not been handled very well at all imo. 'Could do better' would be the minimal report. But.... it does show how dire the alternative would be.
73

Miss H,

18/06/2009 12:56:50
86 It is hardly surprising that capital funding causes problems in the current climate.

What is really ironic is that the SNP Government is basically doing what has been done in England by amalgamating all the council programmes under one umbrella, the SFT - that is, all the councils who are a part of it. Some, like Glasgow, have opted out. That is the only reason that the school building programme south of the border can continue to function and it has also been criticised by MPs for not doing enough. But money is tight in the present climate, everyone recognises that.

Labour shadow ministers like Andy Kerr wittering on about PFI are talking out their rear ends. The money councils were able to access under PFI has dried up. That's why - whatever anyone thinks of PFI or the SFT - the SNP Government has done a pretty good job in the circumstances.
74

frank mcbride,

lusitania 18/06/2009 13:05:53
#80/82, Cheradenine.

Perhaps you should have a look at the economics o the situation.

The SNP Government are in the process of building/refurbishing more of the schools' estate than the previous NuLab/LD Administration.

The SNP Government has said, quite rightly IMHO, that it will not use the current discredited, usurous PFI/PPP funding mechanism.

The SNP Government has put in place plans to commission more improvements to the schools' estate, using a more economical funding method which will save the taxpayers many £ms.

In what way, therefore, has the SNP Government broken its Manifesto commitment?

Do you, seriously, believe that the SNP Government should have continued the profligate policy of the last NuLab/LD Aministration and created even more unneccessary debt which will have to be paid for by us, our children and their children.

To conclude:

The SNP Government is outdiong the previous NuLab/LD Administration's school building/refurbishment programme.

It has set in place further improvements.

It has established a far more economical funding regime.

If this is a failure to keep to its Manifesto commitment then I, for one, sincerely hope that they fail to keep all their Manifesto commitments.
75

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/06/2009 13:08:49
This is a boring story only a political and economic illiterate would fail to understand the slight blip that may have been caused by the biggest recesion since 1929.

I personally would like to see the SNP press a lot harder for borrowing powers so that they don't need a Scottish Futures Trust, but I am not so much of a fool as to think that recent events have not had an impact on the promises made before the crash.

76

hoblar,

18/06/2009 13:29:01
Cheradine is talking garbage. These names that appear out of nowhere for a day to slag off the SNP a few dozen times are not worth talking to.

Suffice to say that 'brick for brick' is not applicable to a massive hidden debt (hidden from the public accounts by Labour) provided courtesy of the discredited PFI system.
This new Scottish Government programme is far more ambitious and we won't be paying through the nose for it for the next thirty or forty years either.
We have a sensible Scottish government, so the debt accrued by labour will not continue, if cheradine wishes to be among the few who will vote labour then good luck to him/her, but don't talk utter mince for one day on politics and then change your name in the morning.

cheers

77

frank mcbride,

lusitania 18/06/2009 13:33:35
#89, Observer.

Recession, or no recession, only the insane would have read the SNP Manifesto commitment regarding the schools' estate as meaning a doubling up on the number of projects to be undertaken.

I believe that NuLabour and their fellow Unionists are showing signs of insanity in their daily press releases.

I agree with you that the SG needs borrowing powers, but real powers in this area can only be achieved with Independence; relying on Westminster to be the arbriter of "prudential" is a recipe for disaster.
78

Alan B,

18/06/2009 14:01:48
labour have virtually banrupted the country by spending far more money than was coming in in tax and putting the whole thing on tick.


good to see the economist rubbish calmans fiscal changes as being completely inadaquate.
79

Alan B,

18/06/2009 14:02:30
sorry economists not the economist
80

AJ Fife,

18/06/2009 14:22:08
It's heartening to see Mr Salmond and the team taking a measured approach to planning for the future.

After the disaster of Labour govts on both sides of the border, wasting billions upon billions of our money, isn't it refreshing to see the SNP endeavouring to spend the money on where it's needed and in a carefully planned manner?
81

nostress,

grangemouth 18/06/2009 14:30:37
Just out of interest I wonder if anyone could tell me who will actually own the public buildings built under Labour's PFI and the public buildings built under the scheme proposed by the SNP? Will both schemes mean that the private sector owns them or that the public sector owns them?
82

nostress,

grangemouth 18/06/2009 14:44:37
hagard, fifi, jerry springer - as avowed experts on this subject I'm disappointed to have received no answer to my above question regarding eventual ownership under both schemes.
83

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 18/06/2009 14:56:38
Wufus from the black latrine is totally deluded. He now has the moniker of a freedom fighter from a series of novels about the illuminati.
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagbard_Celine).
A bit strange when I equate his hero, Gudrun Broon, with the NWO/illuminati/banksters and I think of the pro-independence people as the revolutionary freedom fighters. Wufus, I think you should change your moniker again to something more appropriate like Rothschildlapdog or Rockefellerasslicker.
84

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/06/2009 15:11:49
My god! Did you see Rhona Brankin nearly bursting a blood vessel in the Chamber yesterday. I thought that she was one of the more refined of the Labour harridans. Turns out she is just another Labour harridan.

Maddox is lying when he states:

"THE SNP government has said it will not build a single new school during its four years in office"

85

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/06/2009 15:13:25
What does this say about Labour's time in power:

"one- third of Scotland's schools, totalling 832, are officially in poor or bad condition."

Shameful!
86

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/06/2009 15:16:11
This is the proper way to fund this type of project:

"The school building programme will involve £800 million of Scottish Government money, with councils being asked to find the other £450 million.

The £800 million will come from the capital budgets from 2010/11 to 2016/17."
87

Miss H,

18/06/2009 15:44:46
94 Yadda yadda yadda.

Tell me - if Labour's argument on this is so strong why did Iain Gray go on the climate change bill at FMQ's?



88

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/06/2009 15:53:00
So the SNP got it's schools building program in motion 1 year before the LibLab coven, jings that's impressive and also using public funds.

Andy Kerr must be tearing himself a new one.

I listened to FMQ's Gray didn't go on the SFT because he knew he would get ripped by AS, as far Tavish trap doors are best avoided laddie.

As far the labour numpties shouting at Alasdair Allan well they got put in there place.
89

Doh,

18/06/2009 16:54:53


SFT is an expensive farce - completely unproven to be cheaper than the later PFI/PPF ect schemes.

It would be much cheaper if they launched an

Scotland's Future Fund - SFF - this would be a private-public funded, not for profit scheme that would be 100X cheaper than SFT. No doubt about it, me and John Swinney have been discussing it in the Morning Glory.
I think he likes it.
90

Grahamski,

Falkirk 18/06/2009 17:09:39
106
"Dear oh dear, unionists. You are so LOSING this debate."

The SNP claim to match the previous executive's building programme 'brick for brick'.

They haven't.

There's no debate about it.

Incidentally, what do you think of our local SNP distributing leaflets with doctored images on them?

Hysterical! What a bunch of crackpots....
91

Alan B,

18/06/2009 17:19:23
Off topic question regarding Calman tax changes.

What happens if the uk chancellor increase standard rate tax? Would the scottish standard rate also be increased or would the scottish government have to increase the rate by the same amount by the same amount to keep the scottsh standard rate in line.
92

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/06/2009 17:42:55
108 These schools are not being built through PFI. They are being built through traditional public procurement. That is why the spokeperson for COSLA is so happy - local government hated PFI as it was just utter waste - imposed on it by the Kings and Queens of the privateers aka New Labour.
93

English Voice,

18/06/2009 17:44:20
108. Grahamski - "The SNP claim to match the previous executive's building programme 'brick for brick'."

I didn't realise the SNP had committed to matching Lbour's marvelous record of building 6 council houses in 8 years!

Mind you, most Labour MPs go through more than 6 second homes in 1 year!

94

Alan B,

18/06/2009 18:00:27
Problem for any scottish government is it does not know how much pocket money westminster will give it.

Atleast wstminster governments know how much tax they will and can raise.
95

BIG EYE,

Paisley 18/06/2009 18:15:01
Lunchtime today and FMQ's provided all the answers we need about Calman and the school building programme.

Not a bleat from Mr 7% Gray about either just another sham story about climate change targets (not delivery).

Calman is so good that only Alex Salmond wanted to talk about it and the Three Stoogies (LAB,Tory and Lib Dum) wanted to talk about anything else!

Roll on Independence!

96

English Voice,

18/06/2009 18:27:56
I do hope the SNP will be matching Labour canvass for canvass for buying oil pointings on expenses!

Surely oil paintings are a key requirement for parliamentary duties and a key way to help the poor, as modelled by Scottish Labour MPs who expense such things!
97

Grahamski,

Falkirk 18/06/2009 18:28:53
110
"The SNP don't engage in the kind of knee jerk damagin political shannigans of anateurs like labour."

Really?

From teletext:

SNP 'doctored Queen photo'The SNP has "airbrushed" the Queen out of a photograph in a leaflet distributed in the Falkirk area.
The leaflet appears to have removed portraits of the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh - and replaced them with Robert Burns and William Wallace.

What a bunch of extremist loonies!!!!!

What do you think the Scottish people will make of that - professional shenanigans......yer a wee laugh


98

English Voice,

18/06/2009 18:37:43
117. Good lord!

Next the SNP will be inserting their MSPs into hopsital opening pictures for openings they never attended!

----------------------------------------------
Labour MPs admit plan to fake Purnell photo - Telegraph30 Sep 2007 ... Last week local newspapers were issued with a picture which ... Hospital bosses insisted that Mr Purnell had agreed to the idea of merging the pictures. ... inserted into the photograph which was eventually released. ...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/1564659/Labour-MPs-admit-plan-to-fake-Purnell-photo.html - Similar
MPs admit plan to fake James Purnell photo - TelegraphLast week local newspapers were issued with a picture which showed Mr ... Hospital bosses insisted that Mr Purnell had agreed to the idea of merging the
99

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 18:49:08
It shouldn't take the SNP long to match New Labour (Scotland)'s school building programme brick for brick.

They are steel frame with concrete floors, blockwork and mainly cladding walls. Very little brickwork.

117. Ah, Graemeski! Which one are you? I remember the time I heard the journalist behind you shouting Grahams Road and you didn't know how to spell it. Grahams Road in Falkirk, that is.
100

George Coutts,

YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW 18/06/2009 19:20:15
How stupid everyone that criticises the S.N.P. for not building schools for the next 4 years.
READ AND BE FULLY INFORMED...........1. There is a RECESSION DUH.
2. Scots are famous for uprooting and leaving when the poop hits the fan, and are departing for far away better life country´s.
3. As the Scottish nation stangles as I speak, that means there is no money in the coffers and more definately not not the BANK´S Duh.
4. Prince Harry is playing pilot as he stunk at being a soldier of offending remarks,
maybe they´l give him a toy glider and I bet he paints it as the RED BARRON with SWASTIKAS. I wonder who pay,s for his FUN IN THE FORCES, oops Duh it´s You HA HA. Hope they dont NAVYise him on a NUCLEAR SUB. Its the End of the World as we Know it. Yes You BRITS have been taken for a sucker AGAIN AND AGAIN, Just look Fergie RULES ENGLISH FOOTIE and GORDON will be RSB Head Exec when he Departs, Cleaver boy eh.
101

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 19:24:20
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/googlesearch.aspx?Keywords=Graemes%20Road

How did Graemeski manage to get the posts deleted without losing his account? Plant.
102

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 19:28:28
Haggard Sealion@121, it doesn't matter who you were, it matters how many of you it takes to spout in shifts.
103

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 19:35:15
Graemeski? Are you there?
104

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 19:38:38
124 Haggard Sealion. Thank you for that information.

You flatter to deceive.
105

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 19:56:04
Aye, you just have to laugh at these plants/trolls/twæts or whatever you want to call them.

Now, what shall I eat with my garlic tonight? Ah yes, steak. And a jolly good DVD of the Bourne Ultimatum.
106

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

18/06/2009 20:16:03
#117 Grahamski,

You mean my council tax money is being squandered on portraits of the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh?

An outrage!

No wonder they are trying to cover it up.

107

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/06/2009 20:45:21
Oh for God's sake the tax payers alliance - next you will be quoting that definitive expert Mickey Mouse.
108

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/06/2009 21:29:20
Belch, Bog, Brush Teeth, Bed.

Scotland awaits.

Just as well the SNP never promised to match, brick for brick, the housebuilders who built the PFI/PPP schools and redeveloped the old school grounds on the fly.
109

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 19/06/2009 22:42:50
This surely explains the incompetence of the SNP.

Yes or No in a referendum?

 

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