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Experts question SNP oil fund proposals



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Published Date: 07 August 2008
SERIOUS doubts were raised yesterday over SNP plans to create a Scottish Oil Fund and to fund public services – all from oil and gas revenues.
A new report from a think-tank warned Scotland's economy could be left vulnerable and unstable if it is based almost entirely on oil revenues.

The authors called on SNP ministers to explain how they intend to run both public services and set up
an oil fund using the finite resources from the North Sea.

The SNP wants to use oil revenues to create a Norwegian-type oil fund, investing the money to resource public services when the oil runs out.

Nationalists believe that this would provide an income stream for the Scottish Government for the future.

But the report from the Centre for Public Policy for Regions (CPPR) warned that ministers had not explained how they intended to finance both an oil fund and run day-to-day public services from oil revenues.

The UK Treasury is due to receive about £10 billion from oil and gas revenues this year, and the report warned that, while this would fund a sizeable part of the Scottish Government's budget, it would not both fill that role and provide the necessary resources for an oil fund as well.

The authors also highlighted the fluctuating income from oil and gas and said ministers had failed to explain how they would cope with this problem. The report was produced in an attempt to inform the debate over North Sea revenues ahead of a possible independence referendum in 2010.

The CPPR researchers stated: "Although the North Sea as a source of tax revenues is growing in importance, it is incumbent on those seeking to utilise them more directly to explain what their contribution in the future is likely to be, how the associated uncertainty can be accommodated in any budget proposals and how any related oil fund is expected to be funded, given Scotland's current fiscal position."

The report also called for "greater clarity" from the Scottish Government and asked ministers to provide much greater detail, ahead of any independence referendum, on their plans for an oil fund and just how they intend to cope with the problems of oil and gas revenues, in addition to the benefits.

A spokesman for the Scottish Government said North Sea revenues would give an independent Scottish Government enough to fund its public service commitments and give it £4 billion extra.

"This means that we would be able both to finance a spending programme to counter deflation and to invest in an oil fund for future generations," he said.

"With three-figure oil prices likely for the foreseeable future, generating huge revenues, the flexibility to invest in an oil fund is very great – and virtually every other oil-rich nation is doing so at present."

SNP accused of reneging on farms cash election pledge

SNP ministers were accused of breaking another manifesto promise yesterday when it emerged that an annual £10 million pledge to help new entrants into farming had been reduced to less than £2 million a year.

The Nationalists went into the last election promising an "annual" grant of £10 million to attract new farmers. The Scottish Government admitted yesterday that although a total of £10 million will be spent on the scheme, that money will now be spread over six years.

The SNP administration has come in for intense opposition criticism since its election last spring for breaking commitments made in its manifesto.

The Scottish Government has dropped pledges to provide a £2,000 grant for first-time buyers, to write off student debt and to provide nursery teachers for every child.

Other promises, including 1,000 extra police officers, were implemented only after pressure from opposition parties.

Nanette Milne, for the Conservatives, said: "No matter how much spin the SNP tries to put on this, the plain truth is that it has broken yet another election promise."

And she added: "Scottish Conservatives support a new entrants scheme. However, we cannot stand by and watch the SNP try to pull the wool over Scotland's farmers' eyes.

"Now is the time for the SNP to explain why it has gone back on its word and lied to Scotland's farming families and farming communities."

A spokesman for the Scottish Government defended the scheme, insisting ministers had provided a "significant package of support" for new farmers. But he added that the budget would be monitored and might be "rebalanced" in the years ahead.





The full article contains 755 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 August 2008 9:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

AM2,

Scotland,UK 07/08/2008 00:00:53
A few points:

1. The nationalists always like to highlight the huge size of Norway’s oil fund. But such comparisons, unfortunately, are little but wishful thinking. Norway’s proven oil reserves, production and revenues are all in the region of double the UK’s.

2. The SNP said in a November 2006 press release that their oil fund would, within ten years, grow to £90 billion and then produce annual investment revenues of £5.5 billion. That corresponds to a 6.1% return on capital and would require the allocation of around £6.6 billion per year for the first ten years after independence.

3. GERS 2007, published under this SNP administration, found a fiscal deficit for Scotland of £2.7 billion, including a similar geographic allocation of North Sea revenues to Scotland as might occur under independence.

4. So we would be looking at a combined fiscal deficit of around £9 billion per year for the first decade. That’s about 10% of GDP. Now factor in our per capita share of UK government debt! Where’s the scope for the kind of business tax cuts that the SNP like to tell us could stimulate rapid economic growth? That huge fiscal gap would have to be filled through some combination of additional taxes, public service cuts and/or government borrowing.

5. Contrary to many nationalists’ “peak oil” delusions, prices can fall as well as rise. From $147 last month, Brent crude is today at $117 a barrel. Jim Ritterbusch is predicting $100. Lehman Brothers is predicting $93 next year, as OPEC increases its supply and the slowing global economy squeezes demand.

6. To pre-empt any misunderstanding of this post, I’m not saying that Scotland couldn’t be a successful independent country, at least in the medium-to-long term, but I don’t think we should be under any illusions about how painful it would be in the short-to-medium term.

The full paper is here (PDF file): http://tinyurl.com/cppr-oil-paper
2

First Minister,

The Raj 07/08/2008 00:02:56
Oh yeah, let me get this right, experts are worried that we MAY start an oil fund, one similat to the one Norway has which props up American banks and is expected to double to £500 Billion this year.
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait, 6-8 million Barells per DAY!
3

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07/08/2008 00:03:05
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07/08/2008 00:03:22
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5

Brits 'n' pieces,

07/08/2008 00:03:44
Another day, another SNP mistake, another SNP miscalculation, another disingenious announcement, another failed promise, just another dreary day in Scotland's life.

Whatever happened to Scottish pragmatism? The type of logical intelligence that led to a great nation of engineers?

Salmond and the SNP identified their "top priority", those 1,000 new police. Do that first, then do your second priority, and so on.

But even before identifying ALL your priorities, first work out how many you can afford.

This logical approach seems to be wasted on the SNP. They are announcing little 200k Islam festivals here, pointless £20million prizes there without spending the money on priority one, but what is worse. NOT knowing how to fund priority one.

Shame on the SNP
6

First Minister,

The Raj 07/08/2008 00:03:47
Oh yeah, let me get this right, experts are worried that we MAY start an oil fund, one similat to the one Norway has which props up American banks and is expected to double to £500 Billion this year.
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait, 6-8 million Barells per DAY!
7

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subrosa,

07/08/2008 00:05:45
Why do these people need to know what the Scottish government's plans are for an oil fund? The whole thing stinks.
21

First Minister,

The Raj 07/08/2008 00:08:32
sorry about that my laptop was playing up and in my haste to try and beat Arthur-AM2 to the 1st post, this happened.
22

Brits 'n' pieces,

07/08/2008 00:10:10
21 First Minister

Nonsense. The SNP spam this website every day when it's a well written article scrutinising the SNP Government and their failures.

I am dissapointed the Scotsman don't report people like you to the police. Their are laws against what you and your thug pals do.
23

ThomasP,

07/08/2008 00:10:20
Scotland is expected to be given full control of our own resources and taxes according to SNP/Tory rumours.

Is the Scotsman attempting to stay ahead of the game by bad mouthing the SNP on this topic before it happens?
24

First Minister,

The Raj 07/08/2008 00:15:55
22
Butt Out
Pleased to see you have taken a typical Unionist approach to my mistake, threaten to call in the Police and calling me and my friends thugs, nice.
britain is not a Real Country like Scotland and England, in 3 or 4 years time it will cease to exist and i will no longer have to hoist the union flag - The Butchers Apron, for my work..
25

AM2,

Scotland,UK 07/08/2008 00:16:47
First Minister

Like your namesake, your figures are off the wall. The Norwegian fund is NOK 1,946 bn. That’s £192 bn. It’s not forecast to hit £500 billion until perhaps 2017.

http://www.norges-bank.no/templates/Article____42083.aspx
26

AM2,

Scotland,UK 07/08/2008 00:17:11
Not this again. Cut it out!
27

Conan the Librarian™,

07/08/2008 00:18:17
Banks ENOUGH
28

AM2,

Scotland,UK 07/08/2008 00:18:18
Are you doing this in the hope that the Scotsman will just pull the thread - so nobody sees post #1?
29

AM2,

Scotland,UK 07/08/2008 00:19:00
Conan - it's pointless. What chance of a decent debate now?
30

AM2,

Scotland,UK 07/08/2008 00:20:06
www.scottishunionist.com - see you there.
31

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 07/08/2008 00:20:17
THE HOOTSMAN SPINS...

"SERIOUS doubts were raised yesterday over SNP plans to create a Scottish Oil Fund and to fund public services – all from oil and gas revenues.
A new report from a think-tank warned Scotland's economy could be left vulnerable and unstable if it is based almost entirely on oil revenues."

Who said Scotland's economy would be almost entirely based on oil revenues??

And another thing. The CPPR based the Treasury take from oil revenues during 2008/09 to be £10billion based on the average barrel of oil coming in at $84. So far this FY, a barrel of oil has averaged $112, 33% greater than next year's estimate. That's at least another $3billion.

Also, Norway's oil fund is an extreme example based on a sovereign country extracting a much larger proportion of oil than Scotland could or would. Alberta and Alaska have much better examples of smaller oil funds set up for provinces / states within sovereign countries. Much more akin to Scotland's current (but possibly not future) status.
32

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 07/08/2008 00:22:26
"Centre for Public Policy" outfits on both sides of the pond aren't think tanks. They're in yer face Labour/NDP propaganda operations. This is no-brainer journalism of the worst kind.
Stalin called these guys like Hamish "useful idiots." I prefer simple "idiots".
33

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07/08/2008 00:23:31
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34

Jwil,

07/08/2008 00:25:39
this is all a big concoction to slag off the SNP, by a group led by Wendy Alexander's husband. What would you expect?

Come on you pro-independence economists and start working together to pull the rug from under the Labour candidates when they start spouting off about their plans for Scotland.
35

First Minister,

h 07/08/2008 00:26:17
r u finished
36

muppetfinder,

07/08/2008 01:29:37
posting a few hundred repeat postings doesn't help the unionist case just shows a rather sad person with too much time
37

muppetfinder,

07/08/2008 01:30:08
posting a few hundred repeat postings doesn't help the unionist case just shows a rather sad person with too much time
38

Blarney,

Arbroath 07/08/2008 01:34:54
Sorry AM2, you will find that Scotland has over double the oil reserves that Norway has, and that is before you take into account the undeveloped Atlantic reserves and the west of Shetland reserves.
By all acounts we probably have as much left as Norway had fom the start.
39

The Pict.,

canada 07/08/2008 01:51:51
Oh no! Scotland must not do anything that makes sense to the english and AM2. Don't do anything that would instill pride and at the same time improve Scotland's economy with oil and gas that belongs to Scotland. The english M.P.'s + Scottish labour, Lib dems and Tories will look after the beggars in their own land --Scotland.
Time to go SNP all the way and the Saltire will fly at the Olympics and the PROUD,rich country of Scoland will be known for what we are.

Slainte mhath.
40

The Pict.,

canada 07/08/2008 01:51:52
Oh no! Scotland must not do anything that makes sense to the english and AM2. Don't do anything that would instill pride and at the same time improve Scotland's economy with oil and gas that belongs to Scotland. The english M.P.'s + Scottish labour, Lib dems and Tories will look after the beggars in their own land --Scotland.
Time to go SNP all the way and the Saltire will fly at the Olympics and the PROUD,rich country of Scoland will be known for what we are.

Slainte mhath.
41

The Pict.,

canada 07/08/2008 01:57:08
Who is raising the 'serious doubts'? The 3 English parties of Scottish labour or Lib dems or the Tories???? Like who ?
Go SNP Go!
slainte mhath.
42

The Pict.,

canada 07/08/2008 01:57:09
Who is raising the 'serious doubts'? The 3 English parties of Scottish labour or Lib dems or the Tories???? Like who ?
Go SNP Go!
slainte mhath.
43

The Pict.,

canada 07/08/2008 01:58:25
Which party raised the SERIOUS DOUBTS ???
44

The Pict.,

cANADA 07/08/2008 02:00:28
WHICH THINK TANK ? WHO ARE INVOLVED?
45

Andrew D,

bne 07/08/2008 02:14:27
W.T.F.!?!?!
46

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 07/08/2008 03:13:35
Yet another team of experts from the unionists, no vision,no ideas and no chance at the referendum on INDEPENDENCE. Always trying to keep SCOTLAND DOWN instead,'Let's see how this would work'. No Negative Negative Negatives. We are finished with you and you had better PREPARE FOR THE NEW SCOTLAND, or you will be left behind!!!!!!
47

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2008 04:17:34
Excellent David, hilarious, soooo clever
48

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 07/08/2008 04:26:56
I was hoping that someone could explain some of this to me:-

Is being one of the largest producers of oil in the world an economic advantage or not?

Why is the suggestion that income from oil would be Scotland's only income stream being propogated by the Scotsman?

Why are the fundamental laws governing supply/demand/price being ignored here? (the demand for oil is going to continue exponentially - powered by a growing middle class in China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Brazil, and Africa - pushing prices far higher than they are now)

Why is no independent oil economist advice being sought here? - there is universal agreement amongst oil economists that price instability will only be on the upside.

Is the fact that an Independent Scotland would have a massive surplus (which can be invested) up for debate? - I assumed It's a cold hard fact.

If it looks like propoganda, smells like it, it probably is. Nice one Scotsman.

49

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 07/08/2008 06:04:30
Enough dreaming. There will be no oil fund until independence and that won't happen in our lifetimes. Sorry.
50

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07/08/2008 06:58:08
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51

Randomly Blocked Poster, ,

07/08/2008 07:11:24
"Serious Doubts," is HAMISH MACDONELL serious or is that supposed to be sarcasim?
52

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 07/08/2008 07:31:19
This oil belongs either to the whole GB or to Orkney/Shetland. It does not belong to us in Scotland alone.
53

Macuistean,

Isle of Tiree 07/08/2008 07:32:51
I used to look at this site to gain some real information from the comments but unfortunately posters like David Banks have forced me to log off.
54

donald,

glasgow 07/08/2008 07:48:36
Hamish calls thieves "Experts".
55

kimba,

07/08/2008 07:58:28
I see the gompers are out! as for snp plans to run scotland on oil,what happens when the oil runs out,who will they take their begging bowl too,yep you got it,England.
56

amberlight,

07/08/2008 08:07:25
There's a better debate going on over here :

http://forum.theherald.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=709&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
57

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 08:16:40
19 First Minister
If you are going to comment please try to ensure that you get your facts correct. Where on earth do you get the figure of 6-8 million barrels per day?

The latest figures released by BERR (April 2008) detailed total UK continental shelf (UKCS) oil production of 1.36 million barrels per day. Oil production in Kuwait is in the region of 2.5 million barrels per day. Those who claim that "Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait" are adding on gas production (including gas from the Southern North Sea of the coast of England)to make this false assertion.
58

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 08:17:15
19 First Minister
If you are going to comment please try to ensure that you get your facts correct. Where on earth do you get the figure of 6-8 million barrels per day?

The latest figures released by BERR (April 2008) detailed total UK continental shelf (UKCS) oil production of 1.36 million barrels per day. Oil production in Kuwait is in the region of 2.5 million barrels per day. Those who claim that "Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait" are adding on gas production (including gas from the Southern North Sea of the coast of England)to make this false assertion.
59

SEUMAS,

fearn 07/08/2008 08:25:48
At last, a way of dealing with A.M.2, not very original but effective way of blanking out utter rubbish
60

Gusto,

07/08/2008 08:28:11
"A new report from a thinktank" - well thats about as authoritative as you can get. Poor Hammish gets all the cr%p jobs apparently. At least he's paid for it!
Who pays AM2 for its junkmails?
I'm off to the Record - a Scottish Newspaper with today's news.
61

Iain green,

Haddington 07/08/2008 08:32:25
The centre for public policy research for regions is far from an impartial organisation.
In fact, it's remit describes Scotland as a region.
However, this is a semantic quibble.
What is important is the fact that if you visit this body's website, you find that the policy director is Brian Ashcroft, husband of Wendy Alexander.
Strangely, our Scotsman hack ignores this fact, and touts this report as being unbiased.
In short, it's more unionist drivel.

While we're on the subject of economic viability, there are currently 5 countries which carry no fiscal deficit worldwide.
One of these is Norway.
While an independent Scotland is now (it appears) required by unionists to guarantee an annual surplus, the UK is running a deficit for this year of nearly £40bn; an ongoing deficit of £560bn; and a foreign debt of over $8trillion.

By their own criteria, the unionists must accept that the UK is not worthy of status as an independent state.
Maybe an independent Scotland could help the truncated UK run things a bit better.

So, nations having debt appears to be the norm.
Scotland at least has a shot at being in the black.

One more thing; Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and many more nations which have oil and gas as their dominant products don't seem to suffer from this so called malaise of vulnerability; and neither, by the same criteria, should Scotland.
62

brownlie,

07/08/2008 08:54:10
Hamish and his experts appear to be suggesting that the only revenue available to an independent Scotland would be oil-based.
63

amberlight,

Scotland 07/08/2008 09:14:10
there's a better debate over here:

http://forum.theherald.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=709&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

64

Encephalon,

07/08/2008 09:38:48
????-Press censorship alive on this forum-apart from the opening poster and his propaganda
65

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 09:42:36
Oh dear, oh dear....

Silly games continue.

Scottish Government spokesman said: "With three-figure oil prices likely for the foreseeable future, generating huge revenues, the flexibility to invest in an oil fund is very great - and virtually every other oil-rich nation is doing so at present.

"With the value remaining in the North Sea greater than the revenue already extracted, it is vital that Scotland gains the economic and fiscal responsibilities to enable us to benefit from our own natural resources - which is exactly why we are having a National Conversation on Scotland's future, and also why we are publishing a study into a Scottish Oil Fund this autumn."

He added: "This year, as independent commentators have shown, Scotland will have a budget surplus of at least £4bn to 5bn - in the context of a growing UK deficit - which means that we would be able to both finance a spending programme to counter deflation, and invest in an oil fund for future generations.

"The first payment into the Norwegian fund in 1995 was only a few hundred million, and it is now worth over £200bn."



66

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 09:43:13
Oh dear, oh dear....

Silly games continue.

Scottish Government spokesman said: "With three-figure oil prices likely for the foreseeable future, generating huge revenues, the flexibility to invest in an oil fund is very great - and virtually every other oil-rich nation is doing so at present.

"With the value remaining in the North Sea greater than the revenue already extracted, it is vital that Scotland gains the economic and fiscal responsibilities to enable us to benefit from our own natural resources - which is exactly why we are having a National Conversation on Scotland's future, and also why we are publishing a study into a Scottish Oil Fund this autumn."

He added: "This year, as independent commentators have shown, Scotland will have a budget surplus of at least £4bn to 5bn - in the context of a growing UK deficit - which means that we would be able to both finance a spending programme to counter deflation, and invest in an oil fund for future generations.

"The first payment into the Norwegian fund in 1995 was only a few hundred million, and it is now worth over £200bn."



67

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 10:07:05
The Scottish Government spokesman said: "With three-figure oil prices likely for the foreseeable future, generating huge revenues, the flexibility to invest in an oil fund is very great - and virtually every other oil-rich nation is doing so at present.

"With the value remaining in the North Sea greater than the revenue already extracted, it is vital that Scotland gains the economic and fiscal responsibilities to enable us to benefit from our own natural resources - which is exactly why we are having a National Conversation on Scotland's future, and also why we are publishing a study into a Scottish Oil Fund this autumn."

He added: "This year, as independent commentators have shown, Scotland will have a budget surplus of at least £4bn to 5bn - in the context of a growing UK deficit - which means that we would be able to both finance a spending programme to counter deflation, and invest in an oil fund for future generations.

"The first payment into the Norwegian fund in 1995 was only a few hundred million, and it is now worth over £200bn."


68

john z,

edinburgh 07/08/2008 10:20:29
So, let me see, the idea of Scotland using the revenue from the North sea oil and gas is bad, and Scotland would be much better giving it all to England. Hmm.. sounds like a very dodgy piece of analysis to me.

Just the usual nonsense. This happened in the 1970's when Westminster feared that Scotland might reclaim its natural resources. Media spin and downright lies were used to convince the Scots that actually the oil and gas were worthless. The reality is thirty years later, that most experts agree, just over one half of the fields have gone.

The oil especially will be worth a great deal for at least another forty years, possibly a hundred years, and the SNP are quite right to insist that Scotland has full fiscal autonomy, to use the oil money for the benefit of Scotland, not to prop up the English economy.

It doesn't matter if the price of oil drops, most experts say it will NEVER get as low as it has been in the past. Demand for oil worldwide is increasing, and this is mainly what is driving price increases. Currently Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait - a country the USA were happy to fight a war over. Do not be duped into believing Scottish oil is small, the reality is it is very important, and will last for many,many years.

No, this 'think tank' is nothing more than a pro-unionist propaganda machine. Don't believe their lies.
69

Linda,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 10:33:25
Can the moderator just not ban those idiots who spam repeated postings so as to deny genuine comment.
70

danbob,

07/08/2008 10:58:18
This report tells us nothing that is not already known. However the actions of some on here in a silly attempt to stop a debate also tells us a lot more about where we could be with nationalism.
71

Graeme2,

Aberdeen 07/08/2008 11:29:46
The so called experts should have known better, you NEVER use unearned income to pay for services. Oil is unearned and should be used only for investment purposes and that includes things such as a Future Wealth Fund.

I agree, independence will be difficult in the short term but afterwards the style and composition of the country will be different from the current situation where Westminister classes us as a region of the UK, and not a full partner.

Lets go for it!
72

Campaign Lawer,

Elgin 07/08/2008 11:55:30
AM2

Always impressed by the amount of c**p you can produce on this site.
Couple of questions for you.
1) What is your background and connection to the Labour Party.
2) The guys who wrote the report (PDF file): http://tinyurl.com/cppr-oil-paper what is their background and who paid their wages during the compilation of the report. I presume they are English based Civil Servants.
Having worked in the Oil Industry for the past 35 years and to watch £15M worth of oil flowing beneath our feet every day from 1 platform straight to No 11 Downing Street. I treat your comments with contempt.
What manufacturing industry in England supports our economy in Scotland?
73

pwd,

Borders 07/08/2008 12:01:29
Anybody who calls the Union flag a Butchers Apron has the mentality of a guttersnipe, has very little understanding and should be completely ignored.
74

Salem,

07/08/2008 12:30:42
AM2 started off with some interesting comments that should have led to a thoughtful discussion.

Instead some moronic piece of filth chimed in and spoiled what could otherwise have been an interesting debate.

I am amazed that the spammer was able to place over a thousand posts. I’m also amazed how long it took for the offensive messages to be removed.

A couple of points for the web master.

After the first offending message was posted the offender should have been blocked, also once removed there’s no need to keep the spammer’s messages on the list. We don’t need to know about messages that have been removed.

Back to the topic.

As AM2 said people should have no illusions that oil is the panacea for all that ills Scotland.

The comparisons with Norway are flawed. Norway has been in the oil fund game for many years. Scotland has yet to get it’s act together and gain independence before getting carried away with the notion that viability for a nation state can be secured by an oil fund.

But the most important event on the horizon that could affect the SNP dreams of an oil fueled economy is the seismic change that is about to take place with the development of alternative sources of energy.

Norway is going to be just fine, because they have stashed enough into their fund for a rainy day. They are way ahead of the game. They have diversified their economy in anticipation of the day when the oil runs out or the world turns to alternative sources of energy. Whichever comes first the Norwegians are ready.

Sadly Scotland is not even in the starting blocks. Salmond’s message is political populism at it’s worst. It is deception for political gain.

At the moment, the SNP is Scotland’s best and only hope. It is unfortunate that Salmond is the best the SNP can come up with to lead the charge for a free and independent Scotland.
75

akjem,

dundee 07/08/2008 12:34:53
I am not an SNP supporter, I favour preserving the Union of GB to serve the interests of ordinary working class people in our country. If the First Minister thinks 'appropriating' revenue from the North Sea oil-mongers can be used to partly fund the Scottish(devolved)Government's programme......what is the problem? In our current state controlled, party-political, system it is a (very small) step forward towards a more democratic and free society.
76

piehutt,

07/08/2008 13:16:13
This is fairly poor stuff from the Scotsman. Write a fairly one sided article criticising what would be an excellent proposal for Scotland.
Then deleting all the comments... stinks of unionist paranoia. Lord Foulkes will be proud.

Wonder how long this comment will last.
77

Salem,

07/08/2008 13:33:52
AM2 started off with some interesting comments that should have led to a thoughtful discussion.

Instead some moronic piece of filth chimed in and spoiled what could otherwise have been an interesting debate.

I am amazed that the spammer was able to place over a thousand posts. I’m also amazed how long it took for the offensive messages to be removed.

A couple of points for the web master.

After the first offending message was posted the offender should have been blocked, also once removed there’s no need to keep the spammer’s messages on the list. We don’t need to know about messages that have been removed.

Back to the topic.

As AM2 said people should have no illusions that oil is the panacea for all that ills Scotland.

The comparisons with Norway are flawed. Norway has been in the oil fund game for many years. Scotland has yet to get it’s act together and gain independence before getting carried away with the notion that viability for a nation state can be secured by an oil fund.

But the most important event on the horizon that could affect the SNP dreams of an oil fueled economy is the seismic change that is about to take place with the development of alternative sources of energy.

Norway is going to be just fine, because they have stashed enough into their fund for a rainy day. They are way ahead of the game. They have diversified their economy in anticipation of the day when the oil runs out or the world turns to alternative sources of energy. Whichever comes first the Norwegians are ready.

Sadly Scotland is not even in the starting blocks. Salmond’s message is political populism at it’s worst. It is deception for political gain.

At the moment, the SNP is Scotland’s best and only hope. It is unfortunate that Salmond is the best the SNP can come up with to lead the charge for a free and independent Scotland.


78

we the people,

07/08/2008 13:35:23
i'd like to know more about the make - up and agenda of this think tan k, also what makes its members 'experts' and on what.
the idea appears to me to be a sound one, although clearly the precise details in relation to spending programmes are yet to come as they'll depend largely on economic conditions, and oil and gas prices, as well as how much of both we have left.
the fund should have been set up in the seventies. bit more forward planning and we could be spending our way out of recession now.
79

kimba,

07/08/2008 13:40:02
Salmond is having a laugh, what happens when the oil runs out!
80

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 13:41:03
Oh Dear....
81

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 13:42:41
Oh Dear....
82

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 13:42:42
Oh Dear....
83

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 13:42:46
Oh Dear....
84

Shellfishfarmer,

Inverness 07/08/2008 14:31:55
AM2 must either have special access software to be always first in or more likely he is a Scotsman journo. Alternatively he could be the tea boy trying to impress Hamish and co.

Anyway, this is a no brainer. It is always better to put funds away for a rainy day. Brown failed to do so and we are now reaping the whirlwind. Does anybody have inside info on how Norway is coping with the turmoil in the global market?
85

Gtj,

07/08/2008 15:30:08
Yawn.
86

westview,

Wonderful wet place. 07/08/2008 17:08:49
Being tied into the British financial black hole that is growing worse, and with no hope for improvement in our lifetime, is bad for Scotland. At least with an independent Scotland we have hope and a way to improve our circumstances in the world. The only thing great about Great Britain is the debt it is sinking into.
87

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 17:55:53
A spokesman for the Scottish Government said North Sea revenues would give an independent Scottish Government enough to fund its public service commitments and give it £4 billion extra.

Roll on Independence!
88

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 17:57:17
A spokesman for the Scottish Government said North Sea revenues would give an independent Scottish Government enough to fund its public service commitments and give it £4 billion extra.

Roll on Independence !
89

craigy,

07/08/2008 20:11:08
Its been sometime since I was last on the Scotsman board. First thing to strike me all was the removed posts. Why are the being removed? Surley they all cant be abusive etc?
Is there any point in the Scotsman running a board if free speech is so drasically censored?
90

steve52,

Kinfauns 07/08/2008 22:03:52
does am2 ever get his facts right?
91

Nearly There,

portsmouth 07/08/2008 23:24:26
Scotsman. Why don't you just delete the nonsense from the database instead of this "Comment removed" business?
92

Andrew Allan,

08/08/2008 17:23:32
I am one of those people who actually believe Scotland would be able to run its own economy even without the oil revenue, and so also could the revenue as a bonus. So it really makes me laugh when so called experts try to suggest Scotland would actually be aiming to run the full economy on oil revenue. These people are like those politicians who are not actually liars in what they are saying but what they are trying to get over in the way they are saying things are mis-leading.
93

Andrew Allan,

08/08/2008 17:24:38
I am one of those people who actually believe Scotland would be able to run its own economy even without the oil revenue, and so also could the revenue as a bonus. So it really makes me laugh when so called experts try to suggest Scotland would actually be aiming to run the full economy on oil revenue. These people are like those politicians who are not actually liars in what they are saying but what they are trying to get over in the way they are saying things are mis-leading.
94

john z,

edinburgh 08/08/2008 18:33:07
Of course we know why the unionists lie about oil. It will be worth a small fortune in the next few years.

See;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7549044.stm
95

morris,

edinburgh 08/08/2008 21:03:24
What on earth happened here?

Yes I know.

Comment removed by administrator.I'll do it myself !
96

SNP hypocrisy,

09/08/2008 05:39:59
It is really quite disturbing that the SNP trolls are hammering these boards day in day out 24/7. There is no such thing as debate with these people, it's all down at the level of insults and even racist anti-English comments. Quite disturbing that the majority of the messages on this board required to be moderated and removed. Quite Disgusting to see Scots behaving like this!
97

SNP hypocrisy,

09/08/2008 05:41:29
It is really quite disturbing that the SNP trolls are hammering these boards day in day out 24/7. There is no such thing as debate with these people, it's all down at the level of insults and even racist anti-English comments. Quite disturbing that the majority of the messages on this board required to be moderated and removed. Quite Disgusting to see Scots behaving like this!
98

democracy,

Scottish Borders 09/08/2008 06:46:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: only Unionist opinions please!

whats a Unionist?

your kidding, right!

NO!

OK, well, how can I put it? A Unionist is someone who wants their nation to be governed by a foreign country and actively goes out and votes for this to happen!

Isn't that being a traitor to your country??

Well, Yes!
99

democracy,

Scottish Borders 09/08/2008 06:49:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: only Unionist opinions please!

whats a Unionist?

your kidding, right!

NO!

OK, well, how can I put it? A Unionist is someone who wants their nation to be governed by a foreign country and actively goes out and votes for this to happen!

Isn't that being a traitor to your country??

Well, Yes!

 

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